: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00020000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T19:14:10.612+0000) > > As usual you have made no case and your sentences are completely pointless. Is this part of your grand scheme? You really are wasting time here instead of bringing Riot down.
> [{quoted}](name=BrahMoarQQPlox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000200000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T19:15:58.527+0000) > > Is this part of your grand scheme? You really are wasting time here instead of bringing Riot down. Wasting time? I'm on a loading screen, I waste nothing.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: First of all, i am not flaming, i am ranting. Second of all, this is the place to rant. Obviously flaming in games is the reason i came to the boards, otherwise where could i bring up the issue of flamers? "Hypocrite much" You obviously don't understand the difference between the boards and in-game and quite frankly being very rude and i'm thinking i'm just gonna stop this conversation right here because you are getting personal. I will not be responding to your comments anymore, Have a nice day.
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tqwOPE7X,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T19:16:20.172+0000) > > First of all, i am not flaming, i am ranting. > Second of all, this is the place to rant. > Obviously flaming in games is the reason i came to the boards, otherwise where could i bring up the issue of flamers? > > "Hypocrite much" > You obviously don't understand the difference between the boards and in-game and quite frankly being very rude and i'm thinking i'm just gonna stop this conversation right here because you are getting personal. > > Nice talking to you, > I will not be responding to your comments anymore, > Have a nice day. Ranting, crying, whatever you wanna call it, you're just mad and want someone to be punished for it. Ironically what you're asking for is exactly why you would be punished for the same thing.
: Let's assume you are right, then what? 1. Form an investment group and buy out a majority share in Tencent, which will currently run you about 115 billion. 2. Prepare a presentation to present to the current majority shareholders showing why your punishment system would be financially beneficial. 3. Create your own MOBA with your own behavioral rules. Any of these three options are going to take some work, so pick one and gl.
> [{quoted}](name=BrahMoarQQPlox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-02-24T19:04:42.844+0000) > > Let's assume you are right, then what? > > 1. Form an investment group and buy out a majority share in Tencent, which will currently run you about 115 billion. > > 2. Prepare a presentation to present to the current majority shareholders showing why your punishment system would be financially beneficial. > > 3. Create your own MOBA with your own behavioral rules. > > > Any of these three options are going to take some work, so pick one and gl. Nah I'll go with 4. Run Riot into the ground based on their own hypocritical rules and regulations.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: You being serious? Doesn't matter that i am ranting on this post, i never flame in game and try very hard to keep cool and honestly i think that is more important
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tqwOPE7X,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:56:58.260+0000) > > You being serious? > > Doesn't matter that i am ranting on this post, i never flame in game and try very hard to keep cool and honestly i think that is more important Oh I see so it's ok to flame on here but not in the game right? Hypocrite much?
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >Explains your lack of any argument at all, nj troll. id provide argument if this wasnt the 1000000...000 time i've seen this topic brought up... this week... by a salty player who doesn't understand what manners are and couldn't be bothered to care.
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00080000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:54:33.021+0000) > > id provide argument if this wasnt the 1000000...000 time i've seen this topic brought up... this week... by a salty player mwho doesn't understand what manners are. You've proven absolutely nothing, except that you were apparently wrong 10000000 times before.
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:32:50.422+0000) > > Explains your lack of any argument at all, nj troll. The mods are going to find any (trivial) reason to lock your thread, be careful with anything that can even be perceived as an "insult"
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:42:07.436+0000) > > The mods are going to find any (trivial) reason to lock your thread, be careful with anything that can even be perceived as an "insult" Good point.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > No, basically if the rules are absolute garbage there should be no obligation for anyone to be mandated to follow them. You don't get to make that choice. > To make a high charged environment and expect people to have no negative reaction to others playing badly, trolling, feeding, etc is an unreasonable request. And what does the negative reaction to that do huh? Does it magically make them play better? Turn them into Faker or some other godlike player? No it doesn't. Worst case scenario, it makes them play worse, and so will you since you are distracting yourself from playing the game when you are rage-typing in the chat.
> [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:10:06.925+0000) > > You don't get to make that choice. > > And what does the negative reaction to that do huh? Does it magically make them play better? Turn them into Faker or some other godlike player? No it doesn't. Worst case scenario, it makes them play worse, and so will you since you are distracting yourself from playing the game when you are rage-typing in the chat. Letting someone let off steam makes them play better afterward. You think I'm wrong? Than I guess you've never had a friend in your life, psychiatry as a profession is irrelevant and families are just a figment of everyone imagination.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > Please show me the good that's come from punishment and banning of people? Toxic people have to go out their way to level up an account/buy one if they want to play more games, while some leave the game cause they are un-wanted. In short, it removes toxic behavior from the game. While yes it doesn't cut it all out, it still lessens it. > Because all I've ever seen this system do is piss people off That's their own fault for not following the common rules and guidelines. > and have their accounts banned forcing them to make new accounts. Riot doesn't want permabanned players to create new accounts, permaban is meant to give them the message of: ''we don't want you playing this game, since you've failed to correct your behavior between the previous punishments''. > Or alternatively in an extreme case quit the game. Exactly, who wants to play with a toxic person? No one. > Which in no way to be clear is a win for riot It is a win for the playerbase. > Here's my answer to that, you have 3 mute buttons, by riots own claims if someone is toxic you CAN mute them. So just cause there is a bandage fix for the issue, people should be able to say whatever they want? People agree to the rules when they create their account, sure the mute button gets rid of their chatting but that still doesn't excuse breaking the rules and acting like a jerk. > Because by your own companies logic there is already a system in place to deal with toxic people Yes, the system is called IFS, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. > anything beyond a mute button is in my opinion overkill Yes, in your opinion. Majority of people however like the system being here, while it might not be the most accurate, it's still by far the best system that has been in league to this date, and should absolutely stay.
> [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:19:18.338+0000) > > Toxic people have to go out their way to level up an account/buy one if they want to play more games, while some leave the game cause they are un-wanted. In short, it removes toxic behavior from the game. While yes it doesn't cut it all out, it still lessens it. > > That's their own fault for not following the common rules and guidelines. > > Riot doesn't want permabanned players to create new accounts, permaban is meant to give them the message of: ''we don't want you playing this game, since you've failed to correct your behavior between the previous punishments''. > > Exactly, who wants to play with a toxic person? No one. > > It is a win for the playerbase. > > So just cause there is a bandage fix for the issue, people should be able to say whatever they want? People agree to the rules when they create their account, sure the mute button gets rid of their chatting but that still doesn't excuse breaking the rules and acting like a jerk. > > Yes, the system is called IFS, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. > > Yes, in your opinion. Majority of people however like the system being here, while it might not be the most accurate, it's still by far the best system that has been in league to this date, and should absolutely stay. "Majority of people however like the system being here". Nope, wrong, which is why there's an entire forum dedicated to people saying this system is garbage. But keep at it, I'm sure you'll get something right eventually.
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:53:13.612+0000) > > I've seen people act toxic in real life and never be asked to leave. See how that works? I can name irrelevant shit too. Yeah I see how that works. Not gonna help you with your account or keeping it.
> [{quoted}](name=PurpleYukari,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000800000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:23:16.554+0000) > > Yeah I see how that works. Not gonna help you with your account or keeping it. BAHAHA I have 12, you think I care about 1?
: I've seen people act toxic in real life. And you want to know what happens to them, they get asked to leave, because they are making it worse and uncomfortable for people around them. Why should virtual spaces be any different? Why do you think the "You can just put on headphones and mute them out or ignore them, so they don't need to be kicked out?" wouldn't work as a defense?
> [{quoted}](name=PurpleYukari,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:43:41.216+0000) > > I've seen people act toxic in real life. And you want to know what happens to them, they get asked to leave, because they are making it worse and uncomfortable for people around them. Why should virtual spaces be any different? Why do you think the "You can just put on headphones and mute them out or ignore them, so they don't need to be kicked out?" wouldn't work as a defense? I've seen people act toxic in real life and never be asked to leave. See how that works? I can name irrelevant shit too.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: "Rephrase"? I thought I was changing it, or taking it out of context, or whatever else you threw my way whenever you couldn't actually address the counterpoints I made. Well, at least I can leave this discussion knowing that you have been made aware of how ridiculous your argument really is. Have a nice day.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:29:14.910+0000) > > "Rephrase"? > I thought I was changing it, or taking it out of context, or whatever else you threw my way whenever you couldn't actually address the counterpoints I made. > > Well, at least I can leave this discussion knowing that you have been made aware of how ridiculous your argument really is. > > Have a nice day. https://youtu.be/yhQql-ZbZmg
MirrorU (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KDA Umbra,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=juybgGga,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T09:48:05.622+0000) > > But that's the thing - opinions are not facts. A lot of those people aren't really familiar with how the system even works and only make things up. They are driven by their emotions, not logic, and often resort to ad hominem arguing. > > On another note, if you think your punishment was unjust, you are more than welcome to file a support ticket and ask for another review. There you can talk to a Riot employee and get a better understanding of what happened. In this instance emotions are exactly what should be the driving force. You're asking logic to dictate an emotionally charged situation. That's the definition of an unreasonable request. I've been talking to riot yesterday and today, they don't give a shit, they consider themselves in the right. As always. Why? Because they're a trash company that has no intention of fixing everything that's wrong with this game.
> [{quoted}](name=KDA Umbra,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=juybgGga,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:32:29.575+0000) > > Self-control is paramount in such situations. You can't allow emotions to get the better of you. It's perfectly normal to be driven by emotions sometimes, but there is a line as to when it becomes unhealthy and detrimental. Really? And you think that this company should be the arbiter of this line? Because if that's your position I honestly don't see what else we have to discuss.
: I agree. I stop playing because I go on a bad losing steak, not because of trolls. They don't really bother me either.
> [{quoted}](name=WarmAndCrispy,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:32:49.383+0000) > > I agree. I stop playing because I go on a bad losing steak, not because of trolls. They don't really bother me either. Exactly!
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: You may not have changed your argument, but it is by itself inconsistent. You selectively choose to be immersed in the virtual world only when it suits your argument and simply being immersed in the gameplay whenever else. Which doesn't even change the fact that it's a horrible argument to begin with.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000100000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:15:19.149+0000) > > You may not have changed your argument, but it is by itself inconsistent. You selectively choose to be immersed in the virtual world only when it suits your argument and simply being immersed in the gameplay whenever else. > > Which doesn't even change the fact that it's a horrible argument to begin with. It's a perfectly sound argument, you're just mad because no matter how many times you tried to rephrase it to suit your points it doesn't.
rujitra (NA)
: Excuse me? Professional sports aren't toxic? When do you see professional sports players flaming each other or telling each other to kill themselves? They operate as a team and are respectful to their opponents? Hockey has fights, sure, but that's exceedingly rare nowadays anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:14:11.453+0000) > > Excuse me? Professional sports aren't toxic? When do you see professional sports players flaming each other or telling each other to kill themselves? They operate as a team and are respectful to their opponents? Hockey has fights, sure, but that's exceedingly rare nowadays anyway. I'm just gonna leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-2PV5iFxE
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: So then once again your argument devolves into (a pretty selective) "I can't distinguish reality from fiction". Which, just to make absolutely clear, is your problem and can not be allowed to serve as a justification for your behaviour.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000400000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:08:18.158+0000) > > So then once again your argument devolves into (a pretty selective) "I can't distinguish reality from fiction". > Which, just to make absolutely clear, is your problem and can not be allowed to serve as a justification for your behaviour. My argument has never wavered from what I've originally said, no matter how many times you try to change the argument into something you can win, you can't. Because I've seen all those tricks, and you're not fooling anyone, especially not me. Nice try though.
: > Simple, if you don't punish for chat, your player base can actually play to their full potential. So...In order to play at your full potential...You need to be toxic and flame anyone and everyone indiscriminately? That sounds like a half-handed Superhero power. The community can play to their fullest potential just fine without being toxic. I want to see even _one_ person who apparently _has_ to be toxic to play well. I guarantee you won't find one. > You're not going to want to hear this but I'll say it just the same, before all the whiny bitches came around with their bans and punishments do you know how we dealt with trolls and int feeders? We flamed them out of it. And it worked, because anyone who would troll all the time and int all the time would either get too worked up to keep doing it or change their play style to improve. Yeahh, that's extremely doubtful at best. Trolls and intentional feeders do what they do _specifically_ to elicit a reaction. They won't be phazed by your rampant flaming, because they _want_ you to flame. They could care less if you shouted all the obscenities across every known language at them and demanded them to uninstall, they're just getting what they want out of you. > You might think that watching 2 "civil" teams play is entertaining but take a look around at literally any entertainment. Everything following this is pretty much irrelevant, as it assumes that the only thing people will be doing is watching other people do sports. Sure, League is designed to be a spectator sport, but people play it, too. And they don't play it to be harassed and attacked by their own team. Even still, I've reason to doubt much of what you said in the non-sequitur half of the paragraph. All told, you don't bring up any compelling reasons to allow toxicity, and since I can't imagine there's much more discussion to be had here, I'll be bowing out. End of discussion.
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000300000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:08:20.910+0000) > > So...In order to play at your full potential...You need to be toxic and flame anyone and everyone indiscriminately? > > That sounds like a half-handed Superhero power. > > The community can play to their fullest potential just fine without being toxic. I want to see even _one_ person who apparently _has_ to be toxic to play well. I guarantee you won't find one. > > Yeahh, that's extremely doubtful at best. Trolls and intentional feeders do what they do _specifically_ to elicit a reaction. They won't be phazed by your rampant flaming, because they _want_ you to flame. They could care less if you shouted all the obscenities across every known language at them and demanded them to uninstall, they're just getting what they want out of you. > > Everything following this is pretty much irrelevant, as it assumes that the only thing people will be doing is watching other people do sports. Sure, League is designed to be a spectator sport, but people play it, too. And they don't play it to be harassed and attacked by their own team. > > Even still, I've reason to doubt much of what you said in the non-sequitur half of the paragraph. All told, you don't bring up any compelling reasons to allow toxicity, and since I can't imagine there's much more discussion to be had here, I'll be bowing out. > > End of discussion. 1 quick thing before you bow out, you said "trolls are int feeders" however my argument falls strictly to chat. I've made it abundantly clear that any trolling, feeding, inting, etc, is gameplay and gameplay can be measured and punished since it's a specific set of guidelines that are not flexible as where chat is.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Can we start banning more flamers?
Sure, lets start with you. Right now you're flaming flamers, so in your own words "I WANT THEM BANNED!"
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:01:26.915+0000) > > I'm saying no one should be banned or punished for chat. That is my position. Just chat. If they are what you consider toxic than mute them, if not than whatever happens is within your purview, but punishment for chatting is a stupid notion and should not be in any game. but thats not immersive, Soraka shouldnt be toxic to me.
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000400000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:05:10.703+0000) > > but thats not immersive, Soraka shouldnt be toxic to me. Yes she should, she's earned that right, and I give it to her freely.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: >you're talking about storyline vs actual gameplay. Replace "storyline" with "the virtual world" and you hit the nail on the head. And gameplay immersion has nothing to do with not being able to differentiate the virtual interactions that happen in the game vs. what happens as real interactions between the players. You can be immersed in a chess game. That doesn't mean you believe you are actually killing pawns on horseback.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:02:46.858+0000) > > Replace "storyline" with "the virtual world" and you hit the nail on the head. > And gameplay immersion has nothing to do with not being able to differentiate the virtual interactions that happen in the game vs. what happens as real interactions between the players. > > You can be immersed in a chess game. That doesn't mean you believe you are actually killing pawns on horseback. Hey! Those pawns didn't have to suffer! How dare you minimize their sacrifice! Just so their sister could become queen.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: >you're talking about storyline vs actual gameplay. Replace "storyline" with "the virtual world" and you hit the nail on the head. And gameplay immersion has nothing to do with not being able to differentiate the virtual interactions that happen in the game vs. what happens as real interactions between the players. You can be immersed in a chess game. That doesn't mean you believe you are actually killing pawns on horseback.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:02:46.858+0000) > > Replace "storyline" with "the virtual world" and you hit the nail on the head. > And gameplay immersion has nothing to do with not being able to differentiate the virtual interactions that happen in the game vs. what happens as real interactions between the players. When you're playing the game you're entangled in the game, you think that someone is seeing a person on a keyboard when they're playing? Fuck no! They're seeing that asshole garen that fed 10 kills to nasus. And they're mad at the garen, not the kid on the other side of the keyboard, which is why you get phrases like "garen stop fucking feeding!"
: i think with all the champs/skins there exist riot isnt worried about "having to re-sell you something"
> [{quoted}](name=Jennifer420,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xzkLF98V,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:52:54.451+0000) > > i think with all the champs/skins there exist riot isnt worried about "having to re-sell you something" You can get all the champs in under a year of play, but why would you honestly? I mean I don't know about you but I only play like 10 champs heavily, beyond that I could care less about the rest, and I would never pay for them.
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000400000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:47:39.210+0000) > > Hey falcon punch is not to be fucked with! oh and if its supposed to be an immersive game, i guess we should ban players only if theyre toxic on non toxic champs right? Toxic on Darius, free pass, but toxic on Soraka is an instant perma.
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:48:31.329+0000) > > oh and if its supposed to be an immersive game, i guess we should ban players only if theyre toxic on non toxic champs right? Toxic on Darius, free pass, but toxic on Soraka is an instant perma. I'm saying no one should be banned or punished for chat. That is my position. Just chat. If they are what you consider toxic than mute them, if not than whatever happens is within your purview, but punishment for chatting is a stupid notion and should not be in any game.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: So I guess when you play Lucian and have a Thresh supporting you, you just run away from him or even try to get him killed because he imprisoned your wife's soul? No? Then you are talking about a different kind of immersion and are deliberately convoluting the two definitions for your own convenience.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000100000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:49:53.572+0000) > > So I guess when you play Lucian and have a Thresh supporting you, you just run away from him or even try to get him killed because he imprisoned your wife's soul? > > No? Then you are talking about a different kind of immersion and are deliberately convoluting the two definitions for your own convenience. I didn't convolute anything I said it straight forward as it can be, you on the other hand are trying to take it out of context, you're talking about storyline vs actual gameplay. Don't try to drag me into your version of what the game is. Just because your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Nope.
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000030000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:53:31.865+0000) > > Simple, if you don't punish for chat, your player base can actually play to their full potential. You're not going to want to hear this but I'll say it just the same, before all the whiny bitches came around with their bans and punishments do you know how we dealt with trolls and int feeders? We flamed them out of it. And it worked, because anyone who would troll all the time and int all the time would either get too worked up to keep doing it or change their play style to improve. Do you wanna know the constant in that scenario? Player retention and entertainment. You might think that watching 2 "civil" teams play is entertaining but take a look around at literally any entertainment. The highlights are always more gore, more blood, more kills, and PEOPLE LOSING THEIR COMPOSURE. Why? Because it's a lot more entertaining than watching a bunch of well behaved people play, that shit is boring to watch. Sure the gameplay is fun but the gameplay was always fun, however trash talking is even more fun sometime than the actual game! Which is why real sports announcers talk trash all game about the teams. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, all professional sports have announcers go on and on about as much shit as they can possibly start to keep people entertained. Yeah totally worked for Tyler1, as the premiere example of toxicity we flamed him until he never ever played again. Ever. Ever. because thats how toxic players work.
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:56:06.431+0000) > > Yeah totally worked for Tyler1, as the premiere example of toxicity we flamed him until he never ever played again. > > Ever. > > > Ever. T1 was entertaining to watch, which is why people watch him, why do they watch him? Because he's toxic.
rujitra (NA)
: It's really not that toxic in lower MMRs either, only toxic players breed toxicity in their games so they see more of it.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:52:30.393+0000) > > It's really not that toxic in lower MMRs either, only toxic players breed toxicity in their games so they see more of it. Not even remotely true, The environment breeds toxicity, but more importantly and this is the hush hush secret that people are afraid to say these days, toxicity is entertaining. It always has been, that's WHY people watch professional sports, sure they watch it for the sport but they're hoping that in the midst of that sport someone loses their shit and starts to go off. Hockey for example has made a past time of this. They expect a fight to occur. And so do the fans, because it's wildly entertaining.
: > 1) Toxicity in its current form as defined by your company is not toxicity, what it actually is, is a squanderance of free speech. What this company is doing is making it harder and harder to want to play this game, not for toxic people, just for people in general. Because what they're essentially doing is applying red tape, and expecting people to be on their "best behavior". Which would be fine for taking a walk in the park, or going to a movie. Not fine when you're playing a competitive game. I'll put in other terms, think of this game as a digital war ok? Now what this company is saying is "you can shoot a person, you kill a person, but don't whatever you do hurt that persons feelings no no no!" See how that's completely counter-intuitive? It would be better to think the game as a digital sport - 'cause that's what it is. An _E-Sport_, not a war. Considering that we're talking about chat related behavior, it being a war would only realistically allow you to shout obscenities and harass players on the opposing team. If you start chewing out and harassing your own teammates/squadmates/platoon members/whateverthefuckhaveyou, you can get punished for actively working to harm your own side's chances of success. And that's just going along with the war analogy, poorly conceived as it may be. Now let's look at League of Legends as a digital sport, like it actually is. Competition comes with the expectation of a degree of sportsmanship and civility - you're expected to play to win, and be humble in victory, or graceful in defeat. Vitriol and flame and harassment are not intrinsically tied to competition. And competition, particularly in a team game, requires that you play _with_ your teammates, not _against_ them. And I reckon that the vast majority of chat-related offenses for toxicity are specifically towards teammates, not enemies. Flaming your teammates =/= sportsmanlike, and consequently not conducive to a competitive environment. Beyond _all of that_, though, you still failed to answer the question. > _**What good does toxicity do, that we should apparently allow it?**_ You can analogize about war all you want, but my question parallels your own initial question. You asked "What good comes from punishing (toxic) players?", so I asked "what good comes from toxicity, that we shouldn't punish it?"
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000400000003,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:47:57.382+0000) > > It would be better to think the game as a digital sport - 'cause that's what it is. An _E-Sport_, not a war. Considering that we're talking about chat related behavior, it being a war would only realistically allow you to shout obscenities and harass players on the opposing team. If you start chewing out and harassing your own teammates/squadmates/platoon members/whateverthefuckhaveyou, you can get punished for actively working to harm your own side's chances of success. > > And that's just going along with the war analogy, poorly conceived as it may be. Now let's look at League of Legends as a digital sport, like it actually is. Competition comes with the expectation of a degree of sportsmanship and civility - you're expected to play to win, and be humble in victory, or graceful in defeat. Vitriol and flame and harassment are not intrinsically tied to competition. And competition, particularly in a team game, requires that you play _with_ your teammates, not _against_ them. > > And I reckon that the vast majority of chat-related offenses for toxicity are specifically towards teammates, not enemies. Flaming your teammates =/= sportsmanlike, and consequently not conducive to a competitive environment. > > Beyond _all of that_, though, you still failed to answer the question. > > You can analogize about war all you want, but my question parallels your own initial question. You asked "What good comes from punishing (toxic) players?", so I asked "what good comes from toxicity, that we shouldn't punish it?" Simple, if you don't punish for chat, your player base can actually play to their full potential. You're not going to want to hear this but I'll say it just the same, before all the whiny bitches came around with their bans and punishments do you know how we dealt with trolls and int feeders? We flamed them out of it. And it worked, because anyone who would troll all the time and int all the time would either get too worked up to keep doing it or change their play style to improve. Do you wanna know the constant in that scenario? Player retention and entertainment. You might think that watching 2 "civil" teams play is entertaining but take a look around at literally any entertainment. The highlights are always more gore, more blood, more kills, and PEOPLE LOSING THEIR COMPOSURE. Why? Because it's a lot more entertaining than watching a bunch of well behaved people play, that shit is boring to watch. Sure the gameplay is fun but the gameplay was always fun, however trash talking is even more fun sometime than the actual game! Which is why real sports announcers talk trash all game about the teams. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, all professional sports have announcers go on and on about as much shit as they can possibly start to keep people entertained.
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:45:12.272+0000) > > A video game is meant to be an immersive experience, they are trying to separate the 2 in saying you can be immersive in the gameplay but oh no don't let your emotions get involved in it, they have to be devoid from that immersion. Nice try though. lol yeah competetive smash players must feel so immersed. "i really feel like im Falco"
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:46:59.027+0000) > > lol yeah competetive smash players must feel so immersed. "i really feel like im Falco" Hey falcon punch is not to be fucked with!
rujitra (NA)
: It's a **video game**. It's for **fun** and **relaxing**. It is not some super competitive tournament. It is a pickup game of basketball at your local rec center. Not a basketball amateur league. Millions of players want this to be a relaxing game. A few thousand think this should be a flamefest that they don't have fun playing. Millions will always beat a few thousand.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:44:38.145+0000) > > It's a **video game**. It's for **fun** and **relaxing**. It is not some super competitive tournament. It is a pickup game of basketball at your local rec center. Not a basketball amateur league. > > Millions of players want this to be a relaxing game. A few thousand think this should be a flamefest that they don't have fun playing. Millions will always beat a few thousand. Yea I can't tell if you're kidding or seriously believe what you just said. It's such a "relaxing" game that millions of players are here screaming and chanting for the relaxation of their team. LOL come on man, even you can't believe that bullshit. At least admit that league has not 1 relaxing thing about it... ok maybe karma when she's dancing, so 1 thing.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:33:23.650+0000) > >Which would be fine for taking a walk in the park, or going to a movie. Not fine when you're playing a competitive game. Says who? All of those are recreational activities ultimately meant for enjoyment. > Now what this company is saying is "you can shoot a person, you kill a person Nope. They don't. They are saying you can **virtually** kill their **virtual** representation. The fact that you are comparing this to the **real** interactions between **real** humans which happen in chat and even claim it to be "counter-intuitive" that such a distinction exists when it comes to the rules means you are either grasping at straws or you have serious and possibly dangerous problems with differentiating reality and fiction. I really, really hope it's the former.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:42:43.521+0000) > > Says who? All of those are recreational activities ultimately meant for enjoyment. > > Nope. They don't. They are saying you can **virtually** kill their **virtual** representation. > > The fact that you are comparing this to the **real** interactions between **real** humans which happen in chat and even claim it to be "counter-intuitive" that such a distinction exists when it comes to the rules means you are either grasping at straws or you have serious and possibly dangerous problems with differentiating reality and fiction. I really, really hope it's the former. A video game is meant to be an immersive experience, they are trying to separate the 2 in saying you can be immersive in the gameplay but oh no don't let your emotions get involved in it, they have to be devoid from that immersion. Nice try though.
rujitra (NA)
: So... Fortnite... RuneScape... Name another free game that even comes close to the player count of League? They're obviously doing *something* better than those games.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00010000000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:39:16.482+0000) > > So... Fortnite... RuneScape... Name another free game that even comes close to the player count of League? > > They're obviously doing *something* better than those games. Fornite doesn't ban people for ingame chat. Runescape really? Could you name a more ancient game LOL
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:35:28.751+0000) > > Well put, thanks for making my point. lol you seriously just agreed that we shouldnt have rules against crime because they wont stop crime 100% wow
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:39:24.402+0000) > > lol you seriously just agreed that we shouldnt have rules against crime because they wont stop crime 100% > > wow No I seriously just agreed that those rules haven't stopped crime. They have however created an entire force of police who are criminals.
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:36:17.883+0000) > > Do I? Damn, must be time to get banned, can't have something as silly as an emotion of anger coming through, here come the riot police now! yeah, pretty mad
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:39:54.723+0000) > > yeah, pretty mad {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Oh really… a very VERY small section? Then what are you complaining about, given that it's only those who should report you. Besides what's snowflake-ish about wanting to play a game that is relaxing, noticing that this game does not offer that due to the toxicity exhibited by the other players, and moving on? That's not being a snowflake, that's being mature. It's people like you, who demand the game change to their will, who are being snowflakes by acting as if you are entitled not only to play this game, but entitled to play it how you want it **and** to have the game **be** played the way you want it. Also, I recommend stopping with the bullshit strawmen. If you want this to devolve into a "Who can make up more shit about the opposing side" contest it's more than likely that this thread will (justifiably) be closed.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:29:18.461+0000) > > Oh really… a very VERY small section? > Then what are you complaining about, given that it's only those who should report you. > > Besides what's snowflake-ish about wanting to play a game that is relaxing, noticing that this game does not offer that due to the toxicity exhibited by the other players, and moving on? > That's not being a snowflake, that's being mature. > > It's people like you, who demand the game change to their will, who are being snowflakes by acting as if you are entitled not only to play this game, but entitled to play it how you want it **and** to have the game **be** played the way you want it. > > Also, I recommend stopping with the bullshit strawmen. If you want this to devolve into a "Who can make up more shit about the opposing side" contest it's more than likely that this thread will (justifiably) be closed. There is nothing snowflakish about wanting to play a relaxing game, and I welcome those people to play farmville or harvest moon, however this is not a "relaxing game" and never has been. This is a 5v5 battle arena, if you came here wanting a relaxing game you're in the wrong place sport.
rujitra (NA)
: WOW. almost like people are leaving games without punishment systems as "bad" yet League has consistently the highest monthly player count of any game period. And yeah, you may never spend, but if you stop being toxic it may prevent dozens of players who would've been in your toxic games from quitting themselves. Lose one spender to save dozens others? That's a benefit to Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:35:55.328+0000) > > WOW. almost like people are leaving games without punishment systems as "bad" yet League has consistently the highest monthly player count of any game period. Oh I see you think that this game has a high count because you're doing something right? BAHAHAH! That's hilarious, truly really funny. You wanna know why you have a high player count? *whispers* because your game is free.
Baval (NA)
: you seem mad bud
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:34:21.207+0000) > > you seem mad bud Do I? Damn, must be time to get banned, can't have something as silly as an emotion of anger coming through, here come the riot police now!
: How is banning drugs and crime working out? You see a lack of drug or criminal activity? No? That's because there isn't. It NEVER worked. Just because there are tules and punishments, doesn't mean you can completely stop it. Why? Because there will always be assholes on the internet. The only way to make the internet better is for us to be better.
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:33:04.064+0000) > > How is banning drugs and crime working out? You see a lack of drug or criminal activity? No? That's because there isn't. It NEVER worked. > > Just because there are tules and punishments, doesn't mean you can completely stop it. Why? Because there will always be assholes on the internet. The only way to make the internet better is for us to be better. Well put, thanks for making my point.
: > Please show me the good that's come from punishment and banning of people? Well, considering that League has been going on for 9~ years with a playerbase millions-strong, clearly large-scale player retention is one of the benefits of the punishment system, given that, more toxic people being punished = less people suffering from toxicity = more reason to stay in the community. > Because all I've ever seen this system do is piss people off... Being frank, punished players, particularly toxic ones, getting pissed off from being punished/banned is just about expected, considering they get pissed off quickly and reliably enough to resort to the toxicity that results in said punishment. > ...and have their accounts banned forcing them to make new accounts. Only a small fraction of permabanned players really come back and make a new account, and fewer still continue to be toxic after the fact. > Or alternatively in an extreme case quit the game. Which in no way to be clear is a win for riot. Uh...Getting toxic players to quit the game _is the stated goal of the permanent ban_. Toxic players leaving makes the game that much better for the rest of the community who plays by the rules, so, it _is_ a win for Riot. > And I've heard every argument you can imagine about "well what would yo do instead?" > > Here's my answer to that, you have 3 mute buttons, by riots own claims if someone is toxic you CAN mute them. And if they are truthfully standing by that statement than you don't need a punishment system attached to it do you? Here's my counterpoint: The rules exist. You agree to these rules. If you break those rules, there needs to be a form of consequence attached to breaking the rules. Ergo, the need for a punishment system. The existence of the mute feature does not overwrite the presence of the rules we agreed to, and beyond that, muting is a short term, band-aid solution that can only really be applied _after someone has already been affected by toxicity_. This isn't the first time anyone has come up with the response "well muting exists so why punish players", and the argument still falls flat. > Because by your own companies logic there is already a system in place to deal with toxic people, anything beyond a mute button is in my opinion overkill, you're just shooting yourself in the foot by stacking ridiculous punishments on top that. As stated above, _muting is a short-term band-aid solution to toxicity, and unless you're prescient or paranoid, **you're not going to mute a toxic player until they've already impacted your game.**_ Reporting is the long-term solution that directly redresses the toxicity by punishing toxic players, reminding them of the rules that they agreed to and giving an appropriate penalty to hammer the point home. So, here's two questions for you: 1) **_What good does toxicity do, that we should apparently allow it?_** 2) **_Does "getting rid of the punishment system" include punishments for gameplay offenses? 'Cause I don't see any specificity here._**
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:25:10.052+0000) > > Well, considering that League has been going on for 9~ years with a playerbase millions-strong, clearly large-scale player retention is one of the benefits of the punishment system, given that, more toxic people being punished = less people suffering from toxicity = more reason to stay in the community. > > Being frank, punished players, particularly toxic ones, getting pissed off from being punished/banned is just about expected, considering they get pissed off quickly and reliably enough to resort to the toxicity that results in said punishment. > > Only a small fraction of permabanned players really come back and make a new account, and fewer still continue to be toxic after the fact. > > Uh...Getting toxic players to quit the game _is the stated goal of the permanent ban_. Toxic players leaving makes the game that much better for the rest of the community who plays by the rules, so, it _is_ a win for Riot. > > Here's my counterpoint: The rules exist. You agree to these rules. If you break those rules, there needs to be a form of consequence attached to breaking the rules. Ergo, the need for a punishment system. > > The existence of the mute feature does not overwrite the presence of the rules we agreed to, and beyond that, muting is a short term, band-aid solution that can only really be applied _after someone has already been affected by toxicity_. > > This isn't the first time anyone has come up with the response "well muting exists so why punish players", and the argument still falls flat. > > As stated above, _muting is a short-term band-aid solution to toxicity, and unless you're prescient or paranoid, **you're not going to mute a toxic player until they've already impacted your game.**_ > > Reporting is the long-term solution that directly redresses the toxicity by punishing toxic players, reminding them of the rules that they agreed to and giving an appropriate penalty to hammer the point home. > > So, here's two questions for you: > > 1) **_What good does toxicity do, that we should apparently allow it?_** > 2) **_Does "getting rid of the punishment system" include punishments for gameplay offenses? 'Cause I don't see any specificity here._** 1) Toxicity in its current form as defined by your company is not toxicity, what it actually is, is a squanderance of free speech. What this company is doing is making it harder and harder to want to play this game, not for toxic people, just for people in general. Because what they're essentially doing is applying red tape, and expecting people to be on their "best behavior". Which would be fine for taking a walk in the park, or going to a movie. Not fine when you're playing a competitive game. I'll put in other terms, think of this game as a digital war ok? Now what this company is saying is "you can shoot a person, you kill a person, but don't whatever you do hurt that persons feelings no no no!" See how that's completely counter-intuitive? 2) I'm simply speaking about chat, just chat, gameplay offenses are there for seperate reason. See chat is subjective by a person to person basis, gameplay isn't. If you feed endlessly, no matter who you are, it's root can be very easily determined because there are only a few things that could possibly make someone do that. However if you get into an argument with someone there are a billion different reasons as to why. You have to weigh it on a scale of reasonable determination. Is it reasonable to expect people to be mad in a game where you're in a digital war? Yes. Is it reasonable to have a punishment for someone who trolls in a game with a specific set of possible outcomes, yes. Is it reasonable to ban someone who flames someone in chat in set game? No. And no matter how you put it, the answer for flaming has never been and will never be banning as a good idea.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:16:40.962+0000) > >I'll tell you right now that toxicity has no bearding on money spending. It has a bearing on whether they want to **play** the game in the first place. And the amount of time people are willing to invest in a game has definitely a bearing on whether they consider to spend money on it. I know a lot of people who have stopped playing the game because of toxicity. People who were very willing (in one example possibly a bit too willing) to spend money on the game.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:22:24.999+0000) > > It has a bearing on **playing** the game. And the amount of time people are willing to invest in a game has definitely a bearing on whether they consider to spend money on it. I humbly disagree, there is a very VERY small section of people who we refer to as snowflakes who leave a game because they feel under attack by toxic players. And those players would leave either way because they're so thin skinned that once they lose a few games they don't feel it's any longer worth their time. Everyone else doesn't leave over toxicity, because they've grown accustomed to it in other games, it's part of gaming. And those people(who are in the majority) would spend money without a second thought, because toxicity doesn't detour them.
Kalikain (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:16:40.962+0000) > > I'll tell you right now that toxicity has no bearding on money spending. None, and I say this as a gamer for now going on over 25 years. Toxicity in a game is not only expected but most of the time it's one of the ways you know you're crushing the other team in real competitive games. And by the way how's that money spending working out for you guys? Cause let me tell you my response to my punishment, my immediate response was "I'll never spend a dime on this company again." And guess what, I never have. The fact that you're basing your punishments to be like CSGO tells me A LOT. Did you know that the company that makes CS:GO is far and away considered one of the worst gaming companies in the world? So much so that players have actively left it for no other reason than to prove how horrible they think that company is. But I see riot wants to be in that circle, congratz, job well done. You missed his point. He said toxic players stop non-toxic players who spend money from playing the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Kalikain,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:20:24.056+0000) > > You missed his point. He said toxic players stop non-toxic players who spend money from playing the game. No I read his point, he's just wrong, because they don't. Money isn't spent because of how toxic the community is, it's spent because of how much you personally enjoy playing the game. Now if you think that because of the toxic players regular players leave than that's just a wrong assessment. Under that premise this game would be devoid of all none toxic players and thereby making his point moot.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=baHakaeE,comment-id=000800010001,timestamp=2017-06-05T22:38:06.241+0000) > > How does this make sense? It's the opposite of this. Removing toxic people from the community means more people enjoy their gaming experience, because they aren't exposed to harassment. When people are perma-banned, they are removed from the community. We don't want them making new accounts. We don't want their money.
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:19:15.358+0000) > > Yea? How's that been working out? You see a lack of toxicity in this game? No? That's because there isn't. It's NEVER worked.
Kalikain (NA)
: Having toxic people who ruin the game for others, banned from the game and quitting, is the win for riot. How is that not a win? -Fewer people who are toxic -Fewer people subjected to said toxicity -People play longer without quitting because it's not as toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=Kalikain,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:13:09.052+0000) > > Having toxic people who ruin the game for others, banned from the game and quitting, is the win for riot. > How is that not a win? > -Fewer people who are toxic > -Fewer people subjected to said toxicity > -People play longer without quitting because it's not as toxic. Really? Fewer people are toxic? Ok, hold on to that dream while you look over the endless field that is the "forum" filled with players that absolutely loath everything in the world about this game. But please, go ahead, show me the 1 or 2 players that left this game because of a ban and have made it "less toxic". And by the way, this game has been voted the most toxic community for like 5 years running now. Just some food for thought.
rujitra (NA)
: It **is** a win if toxic players leave the game. Toxicity causes money spending players to not begin playing or leave when they stop having fun playing. Do you really think CSGO and other games without decent punishment systems have a large playerbase?
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TtrUNkUt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:13:10.523+0000) > > It **is** a win if toxic players leave the game. Toxicity causes money spending players to not begin playing or leave when they stop having fun playing. Do you really think CSGO and other games without decent punishment systems have a large playerbase? I'll tell you right now that toxicity has no bearding on money spending. None, and I say this as a gamer for now going on over 25 years. Toxicity in a game is not only expected but most of the time it's one of the ways you know you're crushing the other team in real competitive games. And by the way how's that money spending working out for you guys? Cause let me tell you my response to my punishment, my immediate response was "I'll never spend a dime on this company again." And guess what, I never have. The fact that you're basing your punishments to be like CSGO tells me A LOT. Did you know that the company that makes CS:GO is far and away considered one of the worst gaming companies in the world? So much so that players have actively left it for no other reason than to prove how horrible they think that company is. But I see riot wants to be in that circle, congratz, job well done.
: _MirrorU: plz report darius inting, refusing to play with team, trolling_ _MirrorU: not toxic at all, u fed and trolled ur getting reported for feeding and trolling_ _MirrorU: accept ur ban bb_ If you're going to report someone, just do it. It feels really akward you're here complaining about this system, but you're also trying to bash people over the head with it in-game.
> [{quoted}](name=purpleKnight,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-24T16:10:25.639+0000) > > _MirrorU: plz report darius inting, refusing to play with team, trolling_ > > _MirrorU: not toxic at all, u fed and trolled ur getting reported for feeding and trolling_ > > _MirrorU: accept ur ban bb_ > > If you're going to report someone, just do it. It feels really akward you're here complaining about this system, but you're also trying to bash people over the head with it in-game. They wanted an honest account of why I got punished, so I linked it. I was demonstrating in game that their system of punishment is absurd and unreasonable as it hits everyone over the head with a hammer.
Rioter Comments
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=00020001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:21:17.933+0000) > > The amount that they EVER got punished by is like a 2 minute time out, you know how many people have been banned from the sport over it? None. Yet you guys ban people left and right. So that's not a good position for you take. I beg to differ. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): >**Trash talk is part of all competitive sports. It happens all the time in the pros.** >Yes and no. Yes, trash talk occurs, but it has definite limits. Most of the things that are punished in game (racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs, sexism, etc.) would also earn you a hefty fine in professional sports. >A Tumblr List of NBA Fines (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/) (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) >A List of NFL Fines for Taunting (https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/fines-appeals/) >NBC Article on Fines Agreed to by the NFLPA (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/bizarrely-specific-nfl-fines-come-from-agreed-league-union-schedule/) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." >NHL Office of Player Safety (http://www.nhl.com/ice/eventhome.htm?location=/playersafety) Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. >... and the grand finale! Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings Also, Riot doesn't ban people left and right. In fact outside of things such as account sharing/buying/selling or ID bans to even get permabanned a player would have had to receive at least 35-games worth of chat restrictions and a 2-week ban first, and then continue to misbehave despite those warnings. Even in the cases where players skip the chat restrictions and go straight to a 2-week ban, that still gives them another chance to clean up their acts before getting permabanned. If despite all of that they still end up getting permabanned then quite frankly that's their fault not Riot's. P.S. I don't work for Riot, I'm just a volunteer forum moderator and a fellow player, that's all.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:50:29.479+0000) > > I beg to differ. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): > (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) > "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." > Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. > Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. > > https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings > > Also, Riot doesn't ban people left and right. In fact outside of things such as account sharing/buying/selling or ID bans to even get permabanned a player would have had to receive at least 35-games worth of chat restrictions and a 2-week ban first, and then continue to misbehave despite those warnings. Even in the cases where players skip the chat restrictions and go straight to a 2-week ban, that still gives them another chance to clean up their acts before getting permabanned. If despite all of that they still end up getting permabanned then quite frankly that's their fault not Riot's. > > P.S. I don't work for Riot, I'm just a volunteer forum moderator and a fellow player, that's all. You have to admit after seeing this forum every single day that punishing and banning people for "toxicity" doesn't work. It just doesn't. I mean really a prime example is tyler1 they banned his account and he just made a dozen more. Would you say he's "reformed"? Fuck no, that guy is still a steroid raging lunatic!
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:34:39.104+0000) > > When was it taken away? I played yesterday and the levels are still levels. Don't know wtf you're talking about. What they mean is that before 2017 the maximum Summoner level was 30, but now there is no Summoner level cap. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/level-beyond-30
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:59:33.595+0000) > > What they mean is that before 2017 the maximum Summoner level was 30, but now there is no Summoner level cap. > > https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/level-beyond-30 No I get that, but the guy that was saying he was playing for "9 years" was only like level 107 or whatever. And I have more than 30 levels higher than him on this account and it's not even a hard played account is what I'm saying.
Xidphel (NA)
: So what do you suggest to counter that?
> [{quoted}](name=Xidphel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:52:29.930+0000) > > So what do you suggest to counter that? First remove autobanning for chat. It has never nor will ever work, because it's a stupid system. Here's the problem, there are 2 factors at play here. The first is reason, under reason if a person is "toxic" in chat and you have a mute button there exists no reason for there to also be a punishment attached, as logic dictates that you could as riot themselves claim endlessly "mute them" at any time. The second factor is human response, words are just that WORDS! To make an entire system on banning people around words when you include 3 different buttons for mute does nothing but make riot look like a bunch of snowflake pansies. Because I've never heard of anyone going "welp I'm banned I guess I'll never do that again". Because that's not the response that occurs. Here are the 2 scenarios that occur in the real world when a player gets punished. First they just ignore it until banning at which point they make a new account and than have a deep and resounding hatred for this company, or second they flat out quit and go to another game. In either case riot loses, you might think that they can stand a loss of a player that was "toxic" but if you look at the community in this game, that is the majority, and they have constantly and progressively gotten more and more fed up with this shit company.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=00020001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:21:17.933+0000) > > The amount that they EVER got punished by is like a 2 minute time out, you know how many people have been banned from the sport over it? None. Yet you guys ban people left and right. So that's not a good position for you take. I beg to differ. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): >**Trash talk is part of all competitive sports. It happens all the time in the pros.** >Yes and no. Yes, trash talk occurs, but it has definite limits. Most of the things that are punished in game (racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs, sexism, etc.) would also earn you a hefty fine in professional sports. >A Tumblr List of NBA Fines (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/) (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) >A List of NFL Fines for Taunting (https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/fines-appeals/) >NBC Article on Fines Agreed to by the NFLPA (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/bizarrely-specific-nfl-fines-come-from-agreed-league-union-schedule/) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." >NHL Office of Player Safety (http://www.nhl.com/ice/eventhome.htm?location=/playersafety) Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. >... and the grand finale! Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings Also, Riot doesn't ban people left and right. In fact outside of things such as account sharing/buying/selling or ID bans to even get permabanned a player would have had to receive at least 35-games worth of chat restrictions and a 2-week ban first, and then continue to misbehave despite those warnings. Even in the cases where players skip the chat restrictions and go straight to a 2-week ban, that still gives them another chance to clean up their acts before getting permabanned. If despite all of that they still end up getting permabanned then quite frankly that's their fault not Riot's. P.S. I don't work for Riot, I'm just a volunteer forum moderator and a fellow player, that's all.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:50:29.479+0000) > > I beg to differ. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): > (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) > "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." > Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. > Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. > > https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings 2 things you should know, not standing for the national anthem was at the time considered unpatriotic and is now a real point of contention. Second is by showing that riot punishes people for being human just single-handedly proven my point. Since my point was never that some people are immune to punishment, it was that riot has a massive overreach in their consideration for punishment.
Xidphel (NA)
: True. Only works for chat. Not sure how to stop trolls (which have been around for a LONG time). However, you don't get punished simply for dealing with them. Only retaliating.
> [{quoted}](name=Xidphel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UfExBPwf,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:49:47.066+0000) > > True. Only works for chat. Not sure how to stop trolls (which have been around for a LONG time). However, you don't get punished simply for dealing with them. Only retaliating. Ahh that's where we will have to disagree, see you're thinking of being punished by riot as being the only punishment, however my argument is that being stuck in a losing game especially in ranked with a troll is in itself a punishment. Because they keep dragging you back down.
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MirrorU

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