: because its 100 AOE damage every 3 seconds. Mountain soul required taking no damage for 5 seconds. Lets have a look at this in a teamfight... Mountain: Each member has 200 extra health Infernal:Each member deals an extra 200 - 400 damage to multiple enemies
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TwMasbtx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-30T18:44:14.038+0000) > > because its 100 AOE damage every 3 seconds. > > Mountain soul required taking no damage for 5 seconds. > > Lets have a look at this in a teamfight... > > Mountain: Each member has 200 extra health > > Infernal:Each member deals an extra 200 - 400 damage to multiple enemies If everyone is at 0 resistances sure, but once one accounts for some resistances the shield value goes up while the damage value goes down. But it is fine with me... in league of 1 shot, mountain soul is a nice respite from the monotony.
Koomaa (NA)
: Why does League keeps putting me in Gold/Platinum games yet I'm not even ranked wtf...
Because Riot is too greedy/arrogant to hire programmers that know what they are doing. And that isn't going to change.
: Leona AP or AD?
AD is generally too expensive as support (especially these days). If you are way ahead, you can afford it, but if you are way ahead you can just style on them regardless of build. Or if you are playing leona in a solo lane / jungle, AD is good. AP is also not great unless vs a bunch of squishies. Against tanks or bruisers, you just become a CC bot (and there are better choices at that point). If you want to have some kill potential vs squishies, just go iceborn into tank. If it goes lategame, and you have the cash and really feel like you need the extra damage, then titanic. Warmogs is super useful if you don't have Ocean. Allows you to initiate tower dives / fights, back out, and regen back to full.
: I'll be honest, I don't think most of us are going to play in Season 10
It is going to be much, much more than people on forums. Basically there are 2 prestige roles now, many people are going to either abandon their trash role for one of the prestige roles or just give up and move on to another game. Then you are going to have 80%+ of the game base competing for 40% of the spots, so people are going to be auto-filled a much larger percentage of the time that previously in order to keep queue times down. Nobody wants to play a trash role, so dodges will go up as well. Since you only get 1 "free" dodge in a given time period, the upshot is that it will reward people with multiple accounts while punishing those who only have 1 account. It will be disastrous. The only question is how long it will take Riot to respond. I'm guessing 3-4 weeks. There will be denial at first, then when things continue to decline it will be "uh oh" but maybe still in denial, by week 3 the scale/seriousness of the problem will start to draw attention from the higher ups.... If it goes on longer than 4 weeks, I'd guess at least one person (maybe several) is losing their job.
: How the hell did Riot manage to fuck this game up for 2 seasons?
I think it is likely the result of the change in mindset for the balance team and developers. In the beginning, the word balance actually meant something. While it was rarely (never) achieved, that was the underlying goal. And the meta was determined by players seeking out small imbalances and favorable matchups. Some years ago, however, it was determined that the burden of balancing the game was too high. Thus instead of patches seeking balance and new metas arising from the player base, Riot began to just force the meta themselves while essentially abandoning balance or placing it under the all encompassing winrate umbrella. This inevitably lead to a psychological shift for all aspects of game development. The question of should X be done was replaced by can X be done. Balance is no longer a consideration, because whatever it is is the meta. A good example of the dangers this way of thinking presents, however, is elder dragon. The execute is a terrible mechanic, because over the past decade players have been relentlessly conditioned to expect that 0% health = death. Even today, for the vast majority of gameplay time 0% health = death. And this is true of most games in existence which have a health stat. But now, under a fairly rare scenario, players are expected to instantly reverse all of that conditioning and understanding that X% health = death. They are even expected to override the ongoing visual stimulus the game is feeding the via their health bar. It is an objectively terrible mechanic, that would have never have made it into the game if the question of should X be done was still asked. Still, even the implementation is poor. Instead of providing players false visual cluing via a health bar and expecting them to magically override extremely strong conditioned responses at the drop of a hat, the elder dragon buff could function identically by simply reducing enemy max hp by X%. But that is not a cool execute (which is a terrible mechanic). That is just one big example of something horrifically wrong in the game, with much of the blame being unfairly shifted to the players for not "getting it." Unfortunately, as bad as executes are, they are really the least of the problems facing league. Executes are a fairly obvious, in your face, mechanic with obvious solutions (don't have them). However, once the mindset changed from should we do X to can we do X, countless little things have undoubtedly crept into the game. And since they were "just part of the meta," they never got addressed and just kept accumulating over the years. So now all these little things are ubiquitous in the game, and sometimes they add up and interact with each other in game breaking ways, such that now the devs still "define" the meta, but are also faced with an ever increasing in difficulty game of whack a mole of their own making. The truth is no one at Riot should have ever been given the authority to define the meta. The power is too corrupting, too blinding. While balance was never going to exist, it should have remained the goal. The team existing in service to the players (who pay their salary). Honestly, I doubt there is any coming back from it now. Once Pandora's Box has been opened, there is only one path to travel - consequences.
: How has Ranked become so awful?
I wouldn't say it is a matter of ADC or JG being good, but rather just being tilt-proof. JG is a trash tier (but important) role, and ADC isn't much better. The real question is if your JG and ADC are going to baby-rage once they get smacked around by the enemy Top or Mid. Not to mention the season just ended, so the queues are full of Elo boosted trash that don't deserve their current rank.
BaronNero12 (EUNE)
: How did you improved your mechanics?
If you want to improve mechanics, keybinds and dedicated, specific practicing (use practice tool) are the best way. That said, one should be able to reach plat 3/4 with very little mechanics, though it would require getting out of bot lane. Top and Mid are more or less freelo right now. Pick a strong champ, farm till 11, roam and destroy ~~peasants~~ lower level enemies with rank 2 ultimate. Yeah, better mechanics are never a bad thing, but I would say you can pretty much face-roll (in a solo lane) to about plat 3.
: Can we please just skip the part where we have broken support items for another 2 years?
They don't even have to create support only items. All that needs to be done is offset the potential gold gain on gold gen items with a permanent proportional reduction in CS gold while the item is in one's inventory. Then anyone, in any position, can buy a gold gen item, and it won't break the game. Unfortunately, it requires high school level math to do the proper calculations, so I wouldn't count on it....
: is it wrong as support to sell your support item after said support item is fully upgraded?
You don't need to sell it, it is worth very little anyway. You just need to prioritize the proper CS to not get the penalty (cannon minions, gromp, scuttles, and blue buff). Taking your own team's blue is probably one scumbag step too far, though unless you are fed, carrying, and the other potential blue users are trashcans. Taking the enemy jg's gromp, blue, and wolves is ideal. And scuttles is part of the vision game so it is fair game I would say. However, you will still be _much_ more poor than any other role unless you are getting kill gold (not assist), so don't be afraid to KS. Of course, if someone AFKs and you are in a 4v5, you should sell the item immediately. As nice as the wards are, they are not gold and items, and you will be forced to clear waves.
: There NEEDS to be some kind of counter to Akali's smokescreen
Pick Garen, take both mr for +16, take conditioning for the addtional +9 mr + 5%. Rush more MR via merc treads or spirit visage or both. Then you just ignore her, clear waves, take her tower, etc... If she ever commits post 6, use your W for the damage reduction and dunk her. The reason it works is she wants to build gunblade first, so she doesn't have much magic pen early. And gunblade is expensive, so if you don't feed her a kill(s) in lane, it takes a while. Pre-6 is not pleasant, but survivable. Once you get your true damage dunk and per-level sustain kicks in, it is pretty much over. It doesn't have to be Garen though. Any fairly tanky champion she can't just blow up with decent sustain makes her life fairly miserable. Kled is also quite good due to his Q and the massive heal debuff on it. Just keep the mindset to focus on lane pressure and towers, and not trying to kill her. Force her to engage on you post 6 or lose structures and farm it up early.
: Do you realize how stupid that argument sounds?
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tqEEx1rX,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T19:14:37.770+0000) > > Do you realize how stupid that argument sounds? I'm sorry the mathematical reality of the situation doesn't fit your previously held beliefs.
: Another thread saying morde is op, lol. Cmon man if you cant counter him then you are obviously not trying enough, since he can be EASILY countered by a lot of things.
> [{quoted}](name=Exodus247,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=odAIfXaO,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-27T18:56:06.406+0000) > > Another thread saying morde is op, lol. Cmon man if you cant counter him then you are obviously not trying enough, since he can be EASILY countered by a lot of things. One would think after the previous guy just got busted someone wouldn't try the same trick again but no.... na.op.gg.... most played champ Mordekaiser, 55% winrate... lul.
: Mordekaiser
Posting about how easy Mord is to deal with when you main him with a 65% winrate is a bit shady....
Rioter Comments
: It was when early dragon cheesers get a free scuttle's worth of gold+dragon buff at level 4. That let them snowball beyond just gaining the buff, and just because they picked a select few of the junglers that can easily solo early.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tqEEx1rX,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-11-27T04:52:24.459+0000) > > It was when early dragon cheesers get a free scuttle's worth of gold+dragon buff at level 4. That let them snowball beyond just gaining the buff, and just because they picked a select few of the junglers that can easily solo early. There are literally 0 wearable items for 100g. You can buy 1 control ward. That is not going to make or break a game. Or to put it another way the gold differential was less than stealing a single jungle camp. The value is in the buff.
datfatguy (OCE)
: Good solo carry champ
At that Elo, basically anyone who doesn't get one shot and ideally has built in sustain or buys sustain items. You can abuse Mord, Garen, Tryndamere, Teemo, Mundo, Jax. All of those can be played either top or jungle (maybe not mord). Teemo shrooms are strong, Garen requires a little patience but scales very well, Tryndamere, Mundo and Mord are pretty braindead. Jax takes a little practice, but isn't too hard. Basically, you want to bait the enemy into trying to kill you (not get blown up), then kill them. Or if massively ahead just take everything on the map and if they contest, kill them. If you must play squishys, I suggest rushing zhonya's for the bait and outplay. It is very useful.
: Hotfix: Turret plating gold nerf and Drake nerfs
Dragon is worth less than a single minion wave. 1/2 of one lategame.... I'm sure that was the problem...
Galiö (NA)
: Vilemaw idea
That actually sounds pretty cool. Perhaps 2 entrances that open up in the alcoves after a certain point, and if you defeat Vilemaw, spiderlings emerge from the holes in the ground to assist your top and bot lane minions (and maybe actively prioritize enemy champions/structures).
: How to climb playing with inters
You can play twitch jg, or trist mid. You already play veigar. Staying in bot lane and not climbing is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. All of your supports are going to be complete garbage if not downright trolls at that Elo. And even if you get some kills early, you are still going to be behind in xp to solo lanes. Top is also dead simple, and you can even play stuff like adc Trist, Quinn, Vayne top, tank Veigar top, Garen (apply face to keyboard), Mordekaiser, and Nasus. All you have to do top is basically go even (don't die and farm), then show up to team fights and clean up with your level and gold advantage. It really doesn't matter what you play top/mid, just so long as you get the xp, cs, and don't hard feed it is literally freelo. But you do you... Just look at your last four losses and who carried the game for the enemy team: Top Mid Top Top It isn't so much about being a win condition yourself as taking away 50% of the enemy team's free win condition should they get fed. Once you climb to ~ Gold 2 you can switch back to ADC and see how it goes.
: Real question : Why do jungle and AD carry mains always have worse macro than top or bot?
I doubt they really do. Why they likely appear to is the xp disparity. For junglers, you can only be ganking 1 of 3 possible lanes on the map at any given time. In season 9 if they didn't want to fall too far behind xp wise they basically had to perma-gank. Now, a little more xp is there but it is so spread out that you really have to hard farm and even then you will fall behind solo lanes. ADC is basically a squeek toy living in constant fear of getting blown up by the assassin midlaner with a 2+ level advantage. They can try to get solo xp away from their support, but that just makes them even more of a juicy target. And the support is in the same boat, just without the gold income. So a great deal of what is considered "bad macro" is likely just the ADC and jungler trying to find ways to get enough xp and gold to stay relevant to the game. Also, when you have a level and gold advantage like mid and top do, you can run around the map and "bad macro" can turn into catching someone out since if you run into the enemy jg, adc, or support you win the 1v1 100% or at least blow summoners and their ult as they run for their lives. And one might think, well group and get XP through kills, but this really doesn't work. I was spectating a buddy's game the other day and he was playing mid. The tristana bot was something like 11/0/4, while he was ~ 2/1/4, and their top GP was ~ 1/0/3. The tristana was a level down to my friend mid, and 2 levels behind the GP, and never really closed the gap.
: How to climb playing with inters
Bruh... I told you to get out of bot lane....
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
Bot lane is just food for the other players. If you are in bot, you will typically be the lowest level, squishiest targets, and thus the lowest hanging fruit on the Gold tree (outside of jungle camps and minions). If you are the carry, you can eventually farm enough gold to be a threat despite being squishy, but supports are just perma $#@$@!. The highest win % supports are currently: 1) Kled 2) Donger 3) Katarina 4) Syndra 5) Ahri 6) Mordekaiser 7) Fizz 8) Akali 9) Malphite Such support, wow.... 10) Janna ! 11) Vel koz 12) Shaco 13) Zoe 14) Bard (Electrocute) 15) Kennen (no mana required) And coming in at 34th: Xayah one spot ahead of Rakan at 35th.
: That's because those players were also Gold in Flex? Your solo queue rank doesn't improve your Flex rank.
> [{quoted}](name=Hosternusvole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ffdZvAZ,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-11-26T16:17:54.397+0000) > > That's because those players were also Gold in Flex? Your solo queue rank doesn't improve your Flex rank. That is rather the point. If someone is a well established Plat, Diamond, or Masters+ player in solo queue, assigning them a provisional rank of Silver is inane. And perhaps you missed the fact that this was happening _consistently_. If it was just a rare or occasional occurrence, I (and I am sure many others) wouldn't have a problem with it. Sadly, it is not rare or occasional but ubiquitous. Trying to climb through a lower rank while consistently facing much higher ranked competition and not being rewarded for it feels incredibly bad. I mean if I was gaining huge gobs of Elo when I actually won against diamonds and losing next to nothing for getting rolled by a Masters player, it wouldn't be so bad. But I even played a match where there was a **1500** Elo difference in teams and lost 20 lp for it. That is just completely stupid, broken design.
: > [{quoted}](name=Modnar Erom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYpZ834n,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-11-26T05:26:27.332+0000) > > Lol, no it isn't... Thanks for the link though; it illustrates the issue nicely. > > 1st item is quicker > 2nd item is quicker > 3rd item slightly slower > 4th item slower still > 5th about the same margin as 4th > > > The really telling mark though is the ratio of games in which the 4th and 5th items are actually acquired. The relative % of games a full build is reached has dropped precipitously. Brand, for example, only reaches full build ~28% as often in 9.23 vs 9.22. While it is still a small sample size, even with a huge margin of error things are looking rather horrific. The default setting is Plat+ where game usually end in the [29 - 30 minute range even if surrenders are excluded](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations). But average item timings on support are very stable. For instance, {{champion:143}} who does not have a super high pick rate has about the same timing when setting it to master+ or to show the average across all ranks (except her boots & first item, cause they are more likely to rush {{item:3020}} because it is better than rushing to {{item:3151}} ) {{item:3310}} support times on later items appear slower because they would most of the time delay building Eye of the Watchers (it would never get built in over 50% of games as they would sit on {{item:3311}} ). {{item:3307}} users would previously build Eye of the Equinox as their first item in well over 50% of games, and they get their later items sooner now. Presumably, if people had actually built Eye of the Watchers the champions that went {{item:3310}} would also see a relative increase over all. Now enchanters and tanks over all have more comparable item timings between champs with similar average income (with tanks usually being about a minute slower for 3 items because {{item:3800}} is common for them and it cost around 400 gold more than any of {{item:3174}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} ). Which is how it should have been all along. You can consult [champion.gg](https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.goldEarned&order=descend&roleSort=Support) for average income levels per game at Plat+. By the way, it appears there is about a 1 minute difference in item times between items on a champ for every 400 to 500 gold difference in cost between items. So the average income per minute for supports falls somewhere around that range. It also seems to have been at that level on 9.22 as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYpZ834n,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-11-26T05:50:00.816+0000) > > The default setting is Plat+ where game usually end in the [29 - 30 minute range even if surrenders are excluded](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations). But average item timings on support are very stable. For instance, {{champion:143}} who does not have a super high pick rate has about the same timing when setting it to master+ or to show the average across all ranks (except her boots & first item, cause they are more likely to rush {{item:3020}} because it is better than rushing to {{item:3151}} ) > > {{item:3310}} support times on later items appear slower because they would most of the time delay building Eye of the Watchers (it would never get built in over 50% of games as they would sit on {{item:3311}} ). {{item:3307}} users would previously build Eye of the Equinox as their first item in well over 50% of games, and they get their later items sooner now. Presumably, if people had actually built Eye of the Watchers the champions that went {{item:3310}} would also see a relative increase over all. > > Now enchanters and tanks over all have more comparable item timings between champs with similar average income (with tanks usually being about a minute slower for 3 items because {{item:3800}} is common for them and it cost around 400 gold more than any of {{item:3174}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} ). Which is how it should have been all along. > > By the way, it appears there is about a 1 minute difference in item times between items on a champ for every 400 to 500 gold difference in cost between items. So the average income per minute for supports falls somewhere around that range. It also seems to have been at that level on 9.22 as well. I have an actual degree in mathematics, and the math isn't terribly complicated.... just stop.
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
Lol, no it isn't... Thanks for the link though; it illustrates the issue nicely. 1st item is quicker 2nd item is quicker 3rd item slightly slower 4th item slower still 5th about the same margin as 4th The really telling mark though is the ratio of games in which the 4th and 5th items are actually acquired. The relative % of games a full build is reached has dropped precipitously. Brand, for example, only reaches full build ~28% as often in 9.23 vs 9.22. While it is still a small sample size, even with a huge margin of error things are looking rather horrific. And applying a little logic and reason to the data above, I would wager that the reason the later items are as close time-wise as they are is the vast majority (practically all) of those are on winning teams stomping their competition. BTW, I'm guessing red.... maybe orange.
: The amount of unbalanced matches is pathetic
I was regularly playing against high plats, low diamonds in my Gold 1/2 flex games. Now, one might think that was because of my MMR but no, I was not gaining more than I was losing. Even played against a couple of Masters players in my Gold flex games.... Hard to climb vs forced losses. $$$ is the only language that matters to them sadly.
: How to climb playing with inters
Best advice is, if you want to climb, stay out of bot lane. Ideally, you want top or mid and if you just focus on cs, not dying, and sound decision making you can easily climb to ~plat 4 by applying face to keyboard. You can also climb as jungle, but it is a more sophisticated role that involves more than just csing and not feeding. But bot lane is not where you want to be.
AntDoom (NA)
: Riot needs to fix this issue with leavers/rage quitters
Well a couple of things: 1) Verified queue so that there can be real, meaningful consequences. 2) Preventing LP could be tricky, though preventing MMR loss should be fine. I would hope that much is done already, since losing a 4v5 shouldn't really hurt your expected rating, but it probably isn't.
rujitra (NA)
: Support gold
You certainly get 2 items faster (though 1 of those items being the support item which may not really have the stats you are looking for). 3 depends on how the game goes. After that you are SoL. A contestable objective is not a terrible idea, but jungle camps aren't really that (2x of each) and minion waves certainly are not that. Why should support be the red-headed step-child? It is ok though, as mains leave the role auto-fill will do its work and empathy will be had. I guess they could make scuttles invisible to anyone without a support item, and that would be some income. But that would also take income and xp away from JG which is not in the best state either....
rujitra (NA)
: Support gold
The obvious solution is for all the people who don't think supports need gold to play support ;). Yeah, that will be cold day in...
: How to fix support items
Yes, there is, and no they are not. But it is cool though. They will either be fixed, or I won't be playing support. Quite simple really. Who knows... maybe I won't be playing league. I would also wager a _huge_ number of people will feel the same way soon enough. And once players start to checkout, Riot will backpedal quick, fast, and in a hurry because while they may not understand logic, reason, or basic mathematics, they (or their bosses) do understand less $$$.
Rioter Comments
: How can people say the income is too low when supports on average reach full build sooner than previously?
> [{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYpZ834n,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-11-25T15:51:22.459+0000) > > How can people say the income is too low when supports on average reach full build sooner than previously? What color is the sky in your world?
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
No support is having an impact when the toplaner with 4 levels and 4 items on them deletes them from the map in 1.5 seconds. I'm fairly confident something will be done as soon as the pros start scrims though (if not sooner).
Bugog (NA)
: If the mage support doesn't constantly get kills, or take cs from laners, they're going to stall out. If the mage support is constantly getting kills, they probably deserve to win. The problem that was happening last season is they even if they didn't get a lot of kills they would constantly get gold, so they could always aim for the expensive AP items. Now if they do that they have a much greater chance of stalling out.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYpZ834n,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T02:31:25.127+0000) > > If the mage support doesn't constantly get kills, or take cs from laners, they're going to stall out. If the mage support is constantly getting kills, they probably deserve to win. The problem that was happening last season is they even if they didn't get a lot of kills they would constantly get gold, so they could always aim for the expensive AP items. Now if they do that they have a much greater chance of stalling out. This is said quite often, and while it is a legitimate concern, I feel it could use a bit of mathematical context. Frostfang could generate up to 22 gold x 3, every 30 seconds or 66 gold every minion wave. At 25+ minutes, each minion wave is worth 195 gold. So the support item used to absolute perfection was granting 66/195 = 33.8 % of a laner's income clearing full waves. Is that really too much... probably not at the 25+ minute mark. However, I think that it _was_ probably slightly too strong immediately after completion (Frostfang). I am glad you posted this however, because it gave me a good idea about how this might be addressed without completely screwing over supports. Tier 1: same as current item (the reduced mana regen hurts but I think that was intended) Tier 2: same but +50% mana regen Tier 3: 40AP, 10% CDR, and tribute gold goes up to 20 or 22 So supports would lose 20 AP, gain a small amount of mana regen, 10% CDR (but later than before) and maintain the old or similar tribute gold. However, the bonus damage on spells would remain gone, and most importantly the new part: Anyone in possession of a support item only gains 2/3rds gold from minions/jungle camps at ALL times. This means the item can never be abused by **_anyone_** to gain more than 100% of their intended income. The AP decrease 20 -> 15, delay on the CDR, and absence of bonus damage relative to FrostFang would also make it much less attractive to non-supports I imagine. For the melee item, have it switch to the coin passive upon quest completion. The stats could be adjusted a bit too along similar lines. The above is just one example of something reasonable that might be done to address the issue. Forcing all supports gold income to practically 0 after quest completion is not.
Terozu (NA)
: So as a support main... I'm completely fine with the support item changes.
The massive decrease in gold income is not mathematically debatable. <------ That is a period.
: Jungle is a mess
If you want a real fun time try support; it is like jungle but without the gold income.
: Insane amount of trolls in ranked?
It is because at the end of every season is when the most accounts get Elo boosted (for the fake rank and rewards). So now you have a whole bunch of people playing where they don't belong. And if a human is trash enough to pay for an Elo boost, one really shouldn't expect exemplary behavior from them. The sad part is all of this could be avoided with a verified queue. Imagine no trolls, no boosts, no dodging, stream sniping, or win trading. All of those are very solvable problems. And I would wager many people would be more than happy to pay a small fee to take part in the verified queue. Something like 5 - 10 dollars per split. Why Riot does not do this is beyond me. It is just another revenue stream for them, and would dramatically increase the quality of life for non-mouthbreathers. It is disappointing, but that is typical Riot - disappointment.
: What the fuck is a caddie? What the hell are you talking about?
> [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A4dPZ5va,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T20:56:47.427+0000) > > What the fuck is a caddie? > > What the hell are you talking about? It is slang for the cannon minion.
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
As if creep waves and jungle camps are not infinite gold generation (at a much higher rate).... good god the entitlement. Most important role... lol what. Lowest level in game with still least income which gets spent on items to help teammates before self. But it is cool, it isn't like farming caddies is hard. I'm sure your supports will love to help you with that, enjoy ;). Or hey, let's just give everyone in the game a free "quest" item since they are so great and have minions and jungle camps stop giving any gold at all ever. What is good for the goose....
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
If you think passive gold generation from the support item is anywhere close to farming champions I have news for you... The actual math: Post 25 mins, lane income is 20x or 2000% higher than the passive gold from the support item. That's right two thousand percent. And you are acting like supports are the entitled ones... Oh and that "extra gold" is 180 per 10 mins. Let's assume you want to buy 2 control wards over a 10 minute period. Well you now have 30 gold per 10 minutes to spend on item upgrades. Just think, in 20 hours you can afford a deathcap, op op.
Ekitaih (NA)
: 29 minute game vs 40 minute game support.
Yeah, let's do the same for jungle since it is so great. Give the jungle starter item its own quest and make it free. Of course, we will need to take away the insane mana regen it currently gives, and take away the built in healing, remove the CDR from warrior and runic echos, remove the splash proc from the AP item, and give them 10 more AP and AD to compensate. And once the "quest" is complete jungle camps stop giving gold. Now before you complain, just think about the tremendous value you are getting from your "free" jungle item.
Ekitaih (NA)
: 29 minute game vs 40 minute game support.
The support items are trash for genuine support purposes: they give AP and AD (stats you want on carries not usually so important on supports - base values and poor ratios typically). In addition to that the 10% cdr and 50% mana regen (both very important stats for supports) are gone and can not be replaced without taking up an item slot and costing gold. Supports did not need more AP or AD. The only tier 3 item that was worth upgrading was the relic shield for 10% cdr.
Ekitaih (NA)
: 29 minute game vs 40 minute game support.
Well since it is fine with just assist gold, I guess we can reduce the gold on jungle camps to be 1/5th of laners' gold. That would still be 4x as much as supports :). What is good for the goose.....
Ekitaih (NA)
: 29 minute game vs 40 minute game support.
Another option is just to refuse to play support. I plan to queue top/mid and if autofilled support dodge until it gets fixed. Or I may just move on to something else, dealing with Riot's idiocy has become tiresome.
Ekitaih (NA)
: 29 minute game vs 40 minute game support.
Steal caddies. Late game caddies are worth 90g. Currently with the supp item you get 180g every 10 mins. With just 2 caddy steals you can double your gold income (of the next 10 mins) in 1 minute. If you take every caddy per wave you have increased your gold income by 10x. Or another way to look at it is post 25 mins, Laners get 10x the supports "income" from caddies alone, 20x from full waves.
: Elder execute is NO FUN FOR ANYBODY
Executes are a terrible mechanic in "skill" based games.... news at 11. I really don't understand how half the people employed at Riot manage to continue to collect paychecks.... but I don't understand a great deal of human behavior so what's new.
: Let's settle this once and for all! Is the support item change a buff or a nerf? - An Analysis -
It will have to change because of pro play if nothing else. Once the quest is completed supports gain 180 gold every 10 minutes, or 2 control wards every 10 minutes. If the game is a fiesta, supports will get some income though it is important to note even in fiestas that assuming relatively equal trades supports actually fall further behind due to the gold distribution. But what happens in those low kill pro games that last a while... You are going to have supports on 2 items at 60 mins because they have to spend 100% of their income on control wards. On a related note, I am a currently unemployed mathematician who would happily replace the boosted bonobo who thought these changes were a good idea at 2/3rds of whatever their current salary is. Hit me up....
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Modnar Erom

Level 281 (NA)
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