: if it is that way, then garen q reducing the crab armor and mr is the bug, not chogath w, because chogath w isn't a hard cc
The wiki claims silence removes it. (https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Scuttler#Gameplay) I just tested with fiddlestick's E (silence, not the fear one) and it does remove the buff.
Rioter Comments
: Bring Us Your Bugs!! Celebrating 10 Years of LoL
Rift Scuttler bug: Cho'Gath's silence does not remove the armor/MR buff. (But other silences I've tested, such as Garen's, do remove it.)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Client Bug: LoL Client keeps taking window priority over other open windows.
Happens to me too, keeps doing it over and over even if I minimize it. Windows 10.
: Remake Games Should Refund RP From Skin Boost
They should also refund your autofill protection--it sucks when you put in your autofill game, then get a remake and lose one of the protected games.
: Security risk if they don't
How so? (Feel free to get technical, I'm a software engineer, though I don't specialize in security.) I would think that since you already typed it once they have it in memory; it should be technically possible to not clear the password when trying to connect to the server. Note that I'm NOT asking to remember my password when I close down LoL. I'm talking about when I just typed it 2 seconds earlier, but I get a connection error such as Server Busy (which happens fairly often). I have a relatively long password and typing it twice every time I want to log in gets annoying.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Potentially, though it depends. ON LIVE: Janna has 84 armor at level 18, we'll assume she also has armor runes (because why not) for a flat 9 more = 93. LW penetrates 35% and we'll assume the ADC also grabbed the Brutal Strikes mastery for 6% more, so total armor pen is 39%. 93 armor = (93/193) = 48.18% physical damage reduction 93 x 61% = 56.73 armor after penetration = (56.73/156.73) = 36.19% physical damage reduction The difference on live is Janna takes effectively 12% more damage from an ADC with LW and Brutal Strikes. PRESEASON: Those numbers aren't exactly unreachable with Lord Dominik's Regards, if Janna has 400 more HP than the ADC -- which only requires 500 bonus HP, so an Eye of the Traveler and a Locket. Edited to clarify live versus preseason.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mqdKYJR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-11-06T14:58:18.115+0000) > > Potentially, though it depends. > > ON LIVE: Janna has 84 armor at level 18, we'll assume she also has armor runes (because why not) for a flat 9 more = 93. LW penetrates 35% and we'll assume the ADC also grabbed the Brutal Strikes mastery for 6% more, so total armor pen is 39%. > > 93 armor = (93/193) = 48.18% physical damage reduction > 93 x 61% = 56.73 armor after penetration = (56.73/156.73) = 36.19% physical damage reduction > > The difference on live is Janna takes effectively 12% more damage from an ADC with LW and Brutal Strikes. > > PRESEASON: Those numbers aren't exactly unreachable with Lord Dominik's Regards, if Janna has 400 more HP than the ADC -- which only requires 500 bonus HP, so an Eye of the Traveler and a Locket. > > Edited to clarify live versus preseason. Its actually more like 23% more damage. E.g., a 500 damage attack: 500 * (1 - .4818) = 259.1 500 * (1 - .3619) = 319.05 259.1 * 1.23 ~= 319.05
Sirsir (NA)
: Stranger things have happened. I mean TF throws playing cards for crying out loud.
> [{quoted}](name=Sirsir94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l5jHnf8Q,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-25T20:34:07.993+0000) > > Stranger things have happened. I mean TF throws playing cards for crying out loud. Lets see... I can throw a playing card. I can throw it across a room. Pretty sure I can't cut someone in half with a basketball. (Though I'll freely admit that I haven't given it a good honest attempt, so who knows.)
: Actually, when that company operates under the purview of of the US Government, and where applicable nationally, yes, they must in fact abide by the constitution and the bill of rights. (Internationally, it's a different story) It is not enough to have a ToS that is defacto accepted that violates rights. It is in fact unconstitutional to present or accept an agreement that is in violation of civil liberties. You CANNOT give up your rights, at best you can choose not to exercise them. A corporation cannot "make" you give them away, even if you are an agreeing party. That being said, free speech is an incredibly misunderstood concept. This is where the first part of your statement actually holds weight. You can say whatever you want. You can burn the flag. And in response I can tell you to get the fuck out of my store. And in response you can boycott my establishment. And on and on. You have to be careful of civil liberties therein though. I think you would have a hard time convincing the law that you are in the right by supporting one bigot, but not supporting all bigots. But if you refuse to do business with all bigots, there you go. In league and with the internet in general, the line between public and private domain becomes extremely blurred. This is all well over the level this conversation needs to be had at though. GG EZ is a personal opinion, and people are well within their rights to express that. It is not derogatory or necessarily inflammatory. If you cannot accept someones personal opinion, then I suggest you change your world view. No one is obligated to like you, be nice to you, or even respect the individual you represent. That's the country we live in, and that is their right. If you are so sensitive you cannot handle that in an online game where people are anonymous and their opinions are worth exactly shit, then you are going to have problems in life.
Sorry Ronnie Law but the right of free speech pertains to government censorship, not as a global thing applicable to corporations and individuals. For instance, I may kick you out of my house if you say something I don't like. And Riot may ban you for saying stuff they don't like. You are right--no one is obligated to be nice to other people. And Riot has the right to say that people who aren't being nice are are not welcome on their servers. As to: > GG EZ is a personal opinion, and people are well within their rights to express that. > > It is not derogatory or necessarily inflammatory. > > If you cannot accept someones personal opinion, then I suggest you change your world view. That is your opinion. (The world view needing changing part.) If my personal opinion is that all of humanity is a cesspool and should die in fire, and so every game I say "**** you all of you should go burn yourselves to death", that would be my personal opinion. According to you (who put you in charge?), everyone should just accept that, and if they won't, then there is something wrong with them and they need to change their world view? You can have whatever opinions you want. Good for you. If you want to spew them at me at the end of a game in an unsportsmanlike fashion, I'm gonna report you. Cause its a dick move and I don't want to play with jerks. And guess what--Riot doesn't want me to have to play with jerks either. If you want to play with jerks, and want those around you to play with jerks without saying or doing anything about it, go make your own game.
: I don't see why it should be a thing you can report for. I fail to see why it also bothers you SO much. I don't see high level players getting their panties in a bunch of the words. It's neither annoying or disrespectful. It's literally two letters. It has no meaning and shouldn't. Honestly, if you people think that's being a douchebag, get out of your house and look upon our beautiful world outside... because it's much worse.
FlackGacket: Why does it bother you so much that this is reportable? Even if it is a small bit of disrespect when compared to other things that can happen, many people prefer NOT to have to deal with that. You don't mind being disrespected? Great. But why do you care that other people mind being disrespected? Everyone has to be like you? The issue is that saying "ez" at the end of a game is deliberately disrespecting the other team. It seems to me that, given how bad the world is in general (per your statement to go look outside at how bad the world is), that we should strive towards improving things. As opposed to saying "well, there is lots of bad stuff, so there is no point in doing anything about any lesser bad stuff."
: If you could pick the same Summoner Spell twice...
Please make this a featured game mode. That is all.
WTFMatee (NA)
: Make each addition dragon you get give all the previous dragon buffs obtained
That is already the case, unless you are saying: Tier 2 gives Tier 2 + 2x Tier 1 Teir 3 gives Tier 3 + 2x Tier 2 + 3x Tier 1 etc. You always have all the prior tiers too...
LupusNox (NA)
: Im gonna start taking smite top lane on AS champs
Adding requirements to the upgraded machete would probably work. Something like: Cannot smite champions unless you've killed a large monster within the past 5 (3? 4?) minutes, or have > 25 (30?) large monster kills. (The last part is so late game junglers don't have to run off to kill a camp to get back their champion smite.)
Rioter Comments
: dude it is just a game, you losing nothing but 20 mins, rewards were given so, the macthes are back to just for fun, and i would compare that to a game with no coach, because they are playing for fun, if a kid left it doesnt really matter as they were playing for fun?
So... if a kid actively seeks out and joins a pickup football game with 5 on each team, and then right as the game is about to start says "oh I don't really feel like playing after all, so I'm going to pretend to be the grass" and just sits down in the middle of the field... that is perfectly fine behavior in your book? If you don't want to play, don't queue. If you wanna just "be blue golems" for the whole game, go join a custom. (Oh, what, that wouldn't be fun cause then no one would be pissed off at you? Yeah.)
: See the problem with not being able to have the tribunal see the chat logs from the game is this... there are players out there, especially PVPers that will report players for negative attitude just because someone is better than them, even though they never said a word in game chat. My husband is a good PVP player and shares this account with me, and has his own account lvl 20. His level 20 account gets reported for negative attitude all the time even though he doesn't speak to a soul during pvp.
You may not want to admit to account sharing on the official forums... it is against the rules and could get you banned...
: 1: This is a generally bad suggestion. Blind pick is suppose to be Call your lane, not "Draft pick without seeing the enemy champ list"
"Supposed to be" says who? Its supposed to be blind pick--where you can't see your opponents. Anything else is just what has evolved over time, not necessarily what it is "supposed" to be. Anyway, fine, seems lots of people hate the idea--forget it :).
Llanite (NA)
: Troll will instant lock, regardless what others say/think/do/done. People play normal for simplicity, including a chance to pick the role that they like. Not some randoms system "you are the first to arrive, good for you, but we decided that you are the last to pick".
Troll can't instant lock if they aren't able to pick right away. Are you saying they will lock mid anyway, even after someone else has locked mid? I think it would cut down on it a lot--my guess is that most insta-lockers are thinking " I really want this role", and so they lock it knowing that most people will just be like "damnit instalocker" and then pick something else, letting them have that role. If you prefer a random system of whoever can type first to a random system that gives you a fair chance at picking first/second/etc, well, thats your choice. I think my proposed system is better.
Llanite (NA)
: If I want a pick order, I'd play draft.
I thought draft was more about seeing what your opponents are playing and shaping your team accordingly; no bans, no one on the enemy team gets to see what you are brining/counter you/etc. How is it better to have a mad scramble to call the lane/role you are most interested in, and also deal with people who ignore that and instalock? That is defining a pick order anyway; whoever says "top" first gets it unless someone else locks it (or something along those lines).
: what?! this solves absolutely nothing and wastes more time
It provides a definitive ordering of picks for all modes. Current way (Blind Pick): Lobby loads, whoever types "mid" fastest gets mid (unless somebody just instalocks a mid). My proposed way: Lobby loads, you have 20% chance to be in first, second, third, etc. First pick gets priority of the role they want. Next pick gets next priority. etc. No one can instalock except ONE person at a time, in a randomized order. This means that instead of whoever can type fastest, or happens to lock fastest, now its determined by a randomized pick order.
Rioter Comments
: "Graves mid. You don't like it, I'm feeding. You piss me off, I'm feeding."
In these situations I generally say something like: "I don't negotiate with terrorists; do as you will, enjoy the ban if you deliberately feed."
: Can we do something about everyone being so toxic it makes a 9/10 game go to a 2/10 game seriosuly?
Yes, here is my suggestion: - Riot should sell a USB-powered spring-loaded punching-glove with a camera. - In order to play LoL, you must have it plugged in and aimed at your face appropriately. (The camera is used to verify it is set up properly.) - If it is disconnected or moved such that it isn't aimed properly, you disconnect from LoL (and leaverbuster will get you) - If the majority of your team votes to do so, the glove will punch you in the face. (Limited to once every few minutes.) - Would need to figure out some way to stop pre-mades of 4 from repeatedly beating the 5th guy.
: > Saying "get a thicker skin" is not helpful. If it were a few isolated incidents maybe such a comment would make sense, maybe not. > The problem is it is CONSTANT. You don't know what that is like (neither do I; I'm a guy). > But I've been hearing a lot of research on this; women are harassed online something like 100x as often as guys are. > > Do you have any idea how demoralizing it is when in practically every game someone is being vile to them just cause they are female? They shouldn't have to hit ignore in every game, and telling them to just ignore it is you ignoring the problem. > > If you look at 100 random people doing some activity they enjoy, and then experiment by harassing half of them constantly, and leaving the other half mostly alone, what do you think will happen? The ones being harassed will likely do that activity less often. They certainly won't have as much fun, even if they have ways to shut off the harassment (which they have to do for each individual incident...) > > How is it fair to say "well tough shit, just fucking ignore it"? > > Do you ever get upset with someone who is harassing you? EVER? Imagine if you had 100x the harassment coming at you, constantly. > > "Maybe you shouldn't include your gender in your name if you don't want to be harassed"--that is bullshit. What kind of society do you want to live in? One where half the population has to hide their gender in order to not be harassed constantly? Seriously? > > Think about it another way: what if this was someone with a name like "BlackDude", and was getting harassed like crazy by stupid racists. Would you tell them "well if you don't wanna get harassed don't put your race in your name, you are just baiting for trolls"? > > How is this different? What practical solution would you suggest, and how would it be implemented?
I do not have a practical solution to suggest. And while "just ignore them" is indeed a practical suggestion, the tone in which he said it (surrounded by implications of "WTF is wrong with you" and "stop being stupid") indicated to me that he had very much missed an important point. The OP didn't seem to be asking for a practical solution to keep her from being harassed. It seems to me she was saying that this is a problem, and that women shouldn't be getting harassed in this manner.
: I really can't tell you're a troll or not... Based on the content I would say yes but based on your name I would say no. In case you're not a troll... ... "defend my gender"? That makes no sense... "ward off attacks"? Ever heard of just fucking ignoring or muting people? Get some thicker skin. "we still pay the same prices for skins"? EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT HAS ANY RELEVANCE I've played around 800 normals and around 500 arams, and I can't remember a single time I've seen someone harass someone because they were female. Maybe you shouldn't include your gender in your name if you don't want to be harassed about it, you seem like trollbait to me.
Saying "get a thicker skin" is not helpful. If it were a few isolated incidents maybe such a comment would make sense, maybe not. The problem is it is CONSTANT. You don't know what that is like (neither do I; I'm a guy). But I've been hearing a lot of research on this; women are harassed online something like 100x as often as guys are. Do you have any idea how demoralizing it is when in practically every game someone is being vile to them just cause they are female? They shouldn't have to hit ignore in every game, and telling them to just ignore it is you ignoring the problem. If you look at 100 random people doing some activity they enjoy, and then experiment by harassing half of them constantly, and leaving the other half mostly alone, what do you think will happen? The ones being harassed will likely do that activity less often. They certainly won't have as much fun, even if they have ways to shut off the harassment (which they have to do for each individual incident...) How is it fair to say "well tough shit, just fucking ignore it"? Do you ever get upset with someone who is harassing you? EVER? Imagine if you had 100x the harassment coming at you, constantly. "Maybe you shouldn't include your gender in your name if you don't want to be harassed"--that is bullshit. What kind of society do you want to live in? One where half the population has to hide their gender in order to not be harassed constantly? Seriously? Think about it another way: what if this was someone with a name like "BlackDude", and was getting harassed like crazy by stupid racists. Would you tell them "well if you don't wanna get harassed don't put your race in your name, you are just baiting for trolls"? How is this different?
Rioter Comments
: > Why are you playing LoL while helping around the house? > If you want to do that, then I think it is fair that the leaver system hits you with a ban--if you go AFK to do housework, you are hurting your team. I'm not doing it both at the same time, it comes up while I'm playing and I have to stop to help real quick.
I imagine then that you are living with your parents? How about this: - Explain that the game is a team game where 4 other people are relying on you to play with them for 30-60 minutes. Explain that due to this, there are systems in place where to keep your account in good standing you can't just leave even for a couple minutes because it would be like leaving in the middle of a basketball game with no sub, or something like that. - Ask if you can check with them before you start a game if they need help with anything; try to reach an agreement that if they say no you won't be asked to stop during the game to help them; get agreement that if you check beforehand they will wait for you to finish the game to ask you to help with something.
: > You don't need to carry. You just need to not be the reason your team lost. Don't feed, don't go even just for the sake of going even, don't overextend, don't not farm at any point in the game, and don't not ward. Don't let yourself be underleveled, even as support. Don't go on tilt. Only avoid teamfights if you're confident your team doesn't need you. If you think a teamfight is destined to end badly, don't just not go in without pinging the team to back out. Just don't not communicate in general. > > If you follow those guidelines, you probably won't be the reason your team lost. im confused, some of the things you say seem like good advice and some not... don't farm? don't ward?
He said "don't not farm" and "don't not ward". I.e., "always be farmin" and "always be wardin"
: i have a short definition for carrying. someone who: 1.) wins team fights, with this person you ace enemy team, without this person, they ace you. ( ala jinx adc) 2.) kept everyone even or fed. basically made sure the entire team was strong for mid-late game (ala junglers who gank alot like kha zix) 3.) leads the team verbally, sort of like a shotcaller. makes the right choices, says the right things, and it all works out in the end. (ala orianna mid laner who calls for barons or dragons or pushing mid or tells top laner to split push top etc ) if u do 1 of these 3 things you are carrying. you are not carrying the team if u are 7-0 by laning phase then u lose every team fight and basically no advatange after that , that just means u were fed by laning phase ended but u didnt know how to control the game. (ala ur toxic mid lane yasuo who asked for camp from jungler)
I would add "pressures enemy team"--if you can go down 3 towers & an inhib while the rest of the team keeps the enemy from recalling or engaging, I'd say that is carrying :).
: This will probably be my last reply here and then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm just tired. Alright, Annies Q at LOWEST level is the same cooldown as Veigars Q at MAX level (with better AP ratios *cough cough*) Oh and alright Annie can shield herself and cause damage to enemies on the same cooldown that Veigar can launch a very small AOE attack with a 1.2 second delay. Those are *totally* equal abilities. His cooldowns are higher than they should be for a champion of his niche is all I was trying to say. And early game they really are absurdly long, albeit later game it gets a bit better. *I also noticed you completely left out the part about Annie stunning every 4 abilites*, but w/e. **There's also the other 5 champions listed in my prior post I talked about**, I think I've made my point pretty clear. My point being that Veigar doesn't need a huge buff, but needs to have his passive or his ranges or cooldowns tweaked. Any of the three would work fine, really. I appreciate your input, but this is getting tedious and I have other things I have to do for a while, we have to agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.
>**There's also the other 5 champions listed in my prior post I talked about** See my comment at the top of the post (that I broke my reply up due to character limits). > His cooldowns are higher than they should be for a champion of his niche is all I was trying to say. What would you propose as CDs for him? Why do you feel his CDs need to be lower? Can you lay out a scenario or two where the higher CD doesn't work, but SHOULD work? Example scenario where I think his CDs work (~35% CDR): "A 5v5 teamfight breaks out. Veigar uses DFG + E, Q, R to splat a squishie, and W's a group of 2 other champions who got caught in his E (or who were CCed by others on the team). A few seconds later he comes back towards the fight and drops another Q on an assassin diving the ADC. A few seconds later his W is off CD and he drops it in the retreat path of the last 2 living enemies." > I also noticed you completely left out the part about Annie stunning every 4 abilites, but w/e. His stun is better in some ways, hers is better in some ways. - He can cast spells all he likes, and keep the stun in reserve. - Annie loses hers if she casts whenever she likes. - His can be dropped at longer range (due to where the edges fall) - Annie can AoE stun a group, but that is with her ult (which is on a relatively high CD compared to his stun). - Annie can AoE stun with her W, but needs to be pretty close ranged to do so. - Veig's stun, even when it misses, sticks around for a bit; it can disrupt chases, isolate enemies, etc. I'm not going to try to claim which is better. (If I had to guess, I'd say Annie's edges out slightly, but not by too much.)
: >You said "Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things"--smack dab in the middle is stronger than just "kind of in the middle". Alright we can debate the use of how strong certain words are another time. Now let's talk about the CD thing: I'll put Veigars in the same format as what you put. >As for his "absurdly huge CDs"... CDs from a few champions listed in Q/W/E/R - Q/W/E/R format (first is lowest level, last is max level). Veigar: 8/10/20/130 - 4/10/16/90 >Annie: 4/8/10/120 - 4/8/10/80 All of Annie's CDs are lower that Veigars at both first and last level. In fact, her Q is a steady 4 seconds from level one. Let's look at that shall we? Her Q range is 625 compared to Veigar having a range of 650, yes, but look at the stats. Annie and Veigar deal 80/115/150/185/220 **+80%** AP in damage on a 4 second cooldown and 80/125/170/215/260 **+60%** AP on a Cooldown that goes 8/7/6/5/4 seconds. So while Veigar deals slightly more base damage with his Q, Annie has a much greater AP ratio, giving her better damage. Not to mention her passive lets ALL of her spells stun. This means she can have a 1.75 second stun any time she casts 4 spells. Even if she only used her Q 4 times she'd be able to stun as often as Veigar, and with more precision. >Kassadin: 9/9/6/7 - 9/9/6/3 Pretty much the same case with kass here, except his Q at max level is actually 9 seconds compared to Veigars 4. "Oh that means Veigar must be OP, haha got you there!" *No it does not.* The quality of the skills matters too. Not only is his ultimate an offensive, **damage-causing flash that's on a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN**, he can use it over and over again. He also has a shield, better ratios in all but his W, and a bulk mana restoration utility. It's not even worth comparing this. Anybody can see that it's no contest. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kassadin_The_Void_Walker >Lux: 15/14/10/80 - 11/10/10/50 She has a longer Q and W Cooldown (only Q lategame) but look at that range! Q has 1175, W 1075, E 1100, and her R has a whopping 3340 range. H-O-L-Y-S-H-I-T. Just.. just look at this stuff yourself. If you can't see why this is again no contest, you have no idea who Veigar is. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux All that range, a shield, and a passive that deals 20% her AP as bonus damage when she hits an enemy shes recently attacked. >Morgana: 11/10/23/120 - 11/10/15/100 Do I seriously need to defend this? There's a reason she's always banned. Not wasting my time on this one http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana_Le >Xerath: 9/14/13/130 - 5/10/11/100 His range is similar to Lux's, in that theyre all over 1000 and his ulti even goes to 5600 at max level. You're losing credibility here, friend. I have other things to do I'm not pointing out more of the obvious http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Xerath Dat range and passive. >Ziggs: 6/26/16/120 - 4/18/16/120 Again, look at that range, all over 1000, and look at his passive. All that bonus damage. Veigar's ulti doesn't mean shit if he can't get in range. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ziggs%2C_the_Hexplosives_Expert >Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Calling the CDs "absurdly huge" seems quite the exageration. Again, I just showed you that they're all longer for Veigar, with just a few exceptions. On TOP of all that I also showed you that the quality of the skill matters. Range, AP ratios, bonus effects, etc all make up a skill not just CDs. So yes Veigars skills are pretty good, but compared to other champions he needs some tweaking. Notably some extra range. At least *look* at a wiki page or *something* before you make a claim like this again. Cuz I'm done.
> >Ziggs: 6/26/16/120 - 4/18/16/120 > > Again, look at that range, all over 1000, and look at his passive. All that bonus damage. Veigar's ulti doesn't mean shit if he can't get in range. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ziggs%2C_the_Hexplosives_Expert > Same stuff as said for other champions, won't rehash here. > >Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Calling the CDs "absurdly huge" seems quite the exageration. > > Again, I just showed you that they're all longer for Veigar, with just a few exceptions. On TOP of all that I also showed you that the quality of the skill matters. Range, AP ratios, bonus effects, etc all make up a skill not just CDs. So yes Veigars skills are pretty good, but compared to other champions he needs some tweaking. Notably some extra range. At least *look* at a wiki page or *something* before you make a claim like this again. Cuz I'm done. "just a few exceptions": I disagree. He has a 4 second, 10 second, 16 second, and 90 second. This is not "all longer for Veigar with a few exceptions". This is equivalent or shorter, with a few exceptions. As for quality of skills, that is of course debateable--but "needs some tweaking" is a far cry from "his CDs are absurdly huge". As for that 2nd to last sentence; I do actually look at wiki pages, and I am familiar with all of these champions. :) Stop with the ad hominem attacks--you aren't supporting your points with them. You want a discussion? Discuss the data.
: >You said "Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things"--smack dab in the middle is stronger than just "kind of in the middle". Alright we can debate the use of how strong certain words are another time. Now let's talk about the CD thing: I'll put Veigars in the same format as what you put. >As for his "absurdly huge CDs"... CDs from a few champions listed in Q/W/E/R - Q/W/E/R format (first is lowest level, last is max level). Veigar: 8/10/20/130 - 4/10/16/90 >Annie: 4/8/10/120 - 4/8/10/80 All of Annie's CDs are lower that Veigars at both first and last level. In fact, her Q is a steady 4 seconds from level one. Let's look at that shall we? Her Q range is 625 compared to Veigar having a range of 650, yes, but look at the stats. Annie and Veigar deal 80/115/150/185/220 **+80%** AP in damage on a 4 second cooldown and 80/125/170/215/260 **+60%** AP on a Cooldown that goes 8/7/6/5/4 seconds. So while Veigar deals slightly more base damage with his Q, Annie has a much greater AP ratio, giving her better damage. Not to mention her passive lets ALL of her spells stun. This means she can have a 1.75 second stun any time she casts 4 spells. Even if she only used her Q 4 times she'd be able to stun as often as Veigar, and with more precision. >Kassadin: 9/9/6/7 - 9/9/6/3 Pretty much the same case with kass here, except his Q at max level is actually 9 seconds compared to Veigars 4. "Oh that means Veigar must be OP, haha got you there!" *No it does not.* The quality of the skills matters too. Not only is his ultimate an offensive, **damage-causing flash that's on a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN**, he can use it over and over again. He also has a shield, better ratios in all but his W, and a bulk mana restoration utility. It's not even worth comparing this. Anybody can see that it's no contest. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kassadin_The_Void_Walker >Lux: 15/14/10/80 - 11/10/10/50 She has a longer Q and W Cooldown (only Q lategame) but look at that range! Q has 1175, W 1075, E 1100, and her R has a whopping 3340 range. H-O-L-Y-S-H-I-T. Just.. just look at this stuff yourself. If you can't see why this is again no contest, you have no idea who Veigar is. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux All that range, a shield, and a passive that deals 20% her AP as bonus damage when she hits an enemy shes recently attacked. >Morgana: 11/10/23/120 - 11/10/15/100 Do I seriously need to defend this? There's a reason she's always banned. Not wasting my time on this one http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana_Le >Xerath: 9/14/13/130 - 5/10/11/100 His range is similar to Lux's, in that theyre all over 1000 and his ulti even goes to 5600 at max level. You're losing credibility here, friend. I have other things to do I'm not pointing out more of the obvious http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Xerath Dat range and passive. >Ziggs: 6/26/16/120 - 4/18/16/120 Again, look at that range, all over 1000, and look at his passive. All that bonus damage. Veigar's ulti doesn't mean shit if he can't get in range. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ziggs%2C_the_Hexplosives_Expert >Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Calling the CDs "absurdly huge" seems quite the exageration. Again, I just showed you that they're all longer for Veigar, with just a few exceptions. On TOP of all that I also showed you that the quality of the skill matters. Range, AP ratios, bonus effects, etc all make up a skill not just CDs. So yes Veigars skills are pretty good, but compared to other champions he needs some tweaking. Notably some extra range. At least *look* at a wiki page or *something* before you make a claim like this again. Cuz I'm done.
> >Kassadin: 9/9/6/7 - 9/9/6/3 > > Pretty much the same case with kass here, except his Q at max level is actually 9 seconds compared to Veigars 4. "Oh that means Veigar must be OP, haha got you there!" *No it does not.* The quality of the skills matters too. Not only is his ultimate an offensive, **damage-causing flash that's on a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN**, he can use it over and over again. He also has a shield, better ratios in all but his W, and a bulk mana restoration utility. It's not even worth comparing this. Anybody can see that it's no contest. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kassadin_The_Void_Walker I thought we were talking about CDs? Yeah, Kass is a special case in his Ult. Kass is a very different champion. I'm not trying to say that "OH VEIG IS OP CAUSE LESS CD!", I'm trying to refute your claim that Veig's CDs are "absurdly huge". Also, please leave out the meaningless things like "Anybody can see..." That statement is not backed by logic or data, and adds nothing to the discussion. > > >Lux: 15/14/10/80 - 11/10/10/50 > > She has a longer Q and W Cooldown (only Q lategame) but look at that range! Q has 1175, W 1075, E 1100, and her R has a whopping 3340 range. H-O-L-Y-S-H-I-T. Just.. just look at this stuff yourself. If you can't see why this is again no contest, you have no idea who Veigar is. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux > > All that range, a shield, and a passive that deals 20% her AP as bonus damage when she hits an enemy shes recently attacked. And we move on to Ad Hominem pokes :). "If you can't see this, you have no idea who Veigar is" is not backed up by logic or data, and adds nothing to the discussion. Yes, these various champions ARE DIFFERENT FROM VEIGAR. I'm not claiming that Veigar is completely equivalent to any other champion. I don't make that claim for any champion. I'm claiming one thing in this dicussion: His kit's CDs are comparable to the CDs of other champions in the same role. Yeah, Lux trades off longer CDs for longer range. How does that support your claim that Veigar's CDs are absurd? > > >Morgana: 11/10/23/120 - 11/10/15/100 > > Do I seriously need to defend this? There's a reason she's always banned. Not wasting my time on this one http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana_Le I'm not sure what your statement purports to prove. She is a mage (or support) champion who's CDs are (in general) longer than Veigars. Another counterpoint to your claim that Veig's CDs are "absurdly high". > > >Xerath: 9/14/13/130 - 5/10/11/100 > > His range is similar to Lux's, in that theyre all over 1000 and his ulti even goes to 5600 at max level. You're losing credibility here, friend. I have other things to do I'm not pointing out more of the obvious http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Xerath > > Dat range and passive. If you feel I have no credibility, then stop responding to me; its fine. I am showing you data that indicates that there are many mages with similar or longer CDs than Veigars. If your claim is that their kits are SO MUCH INCREDIBLY better than Veigars that it makes his (lower or equivalent) CDs "absurdly huge", then fine; I'll address that claim in a separate post (if you confirm that is what you are claiming). Prior to this post of yours, you hadn't indicated WHY you thought his CDs are "absurdly huge"; so I posted a variety of champions in the mage role whose CD numbers are comparable to Veigars.
: >You said "Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things"--smack dab in the middle is stronger than just "kind of in the middle". Alright we can debate the use of how strong certain words are another time. Now let's talk about the CD thing: I'll put Veigars in the same format as what you put. >As for his "absurdly huge CDs"... CDs from a few champions listed in Q/W/E/R - Q/W/E/R format (first is lowest level, last is max level). Veigar: 8/10/20/130 - 4/10/16/90 >Annie: 4/8/10/120 - 4/8/10/80 All of Annie's CDs are lower that Veigars at both first and last level. In fact, her Q is a steady 4 seconds from level one. Let's look at that shall we? Her Q range is 625 compared to Veigar having a range of 650, yes, but look at the stats. Annie and Veigar deal 80/115/150/185/220 **+80%** AP in damage on a 4 second cooldown and 80/125/170/215/260 **+60%** AP on a Cooldown that goes 8/7/6/5/4 seconds. So while Veigar deals slightly more base damage with his Q, Annie has a much greater AP ratio, giving her better damage. Not to mention her passive lets ALL of her spells stun. This means she can have a 1.75 second stun any time she casts 4 spells. Even if she only used her Q 4 times she'd be able to stun as often as Veigar, and with more precision. >Kassadin: 9/9/6/7 - 9/9/6/3 Pretty much the same case with kass here, except his Q at max level is actually 9 seconds compared to Veigars 4. "Oh that means Veigar must be OP, haha got you there!" *No it does not.* The quality of the skills matters too. Not only is his ultimate an offensive, **damage-causing flash that's on a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN**, he can use it over and over again. He also has a shield, better ratios in all but his W, and a bulk mana restoration utility. It's not even worth comparing this. Anybody can see that it's no contest. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kassadin_The_Void_Walker >Lux: 15/14/10/80 - 11/10/10/50 She has a longer Q and W Cooldown (only Q lategame) but look at that range! Q has 1175, W 1075, E 1100, and her R has a whopping 3340 range. H-O-L-Y-S-H-I-T. Just.. just look at this stuff yourself. If you can't see why this is again no contest, you have no idea who Veigar is. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux All that range, a shield, and a passive that deals 20% her AP as bonus damage when she hits an enemy shes recently attacked. >Morgana: 11/10/23/120 - 11/10/15/100 Do I seriously need to defend this? There's a reason she's always banned. Not wasting my time on this one http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Morgana_Le >Xerath: 9/14/13/130 - 5/10/11/100 His range is similar to Lux's, in that theyre all over 1000 and his ulti even goes to 5600 at max level. You're losing credibility here, friend. I have other things to do I'm not pointing out more of the obvious http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Xerath Dat range and passive. >Ziggs: 6/26/16/120 - 4/18/16/120 Again, look at that range, all over 1000, and look at his passive. All that bonus damage. Veigar's ulti doesn't mean shit if he can't get in range. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ziggs%2C_the_Hexplosives_Expert >Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Calling the CDs "absurdly huge" seems quite the exageration. Again, I just showed you that they're all longer for Veigar, with just a few exceptions. On TOP of all that I also showed you that the quality of the skill matters. Range, AP ratios, bonus effects, etc all make up a skill not just CDs. So yes Veigars skills are pretty good, but compared to other champions he needs some tweaking. Notably some extra range. At least *look* at a wiki page or *something* before you make a claim like this again. Cuz I'm done.
This is getting too long to respond to in one post--breaking up responses due to character limits. > >You said "Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things"--smack dab in the middle is stronger than just "kind of in the middle". > > Alright we can debate the use of how strong certain words are another time. > > Now let's talk about the CD thing: I'll put Veigars in the same format as what you put. > > >As for his "absurdly huge CDs"... > CDs from a few champions listed in Q/W/E/R - Q/W/E/R format (first is lowest level, last is max level). > > Veigar: 8/10/20/130 - 4/10/16/90 > > >Annie: 4/8/10/120 - 4/8/10/80 > > All of Annie's CDs are lower that Veigars at both first and last level. In fact, her Q is a steady 4 seconds from level one. Let's look at that shall we? Her Q range is 625 compared to Veigar having a range of 650, yes, but look at the stats. Annie and Veigar deal 80/115/150/185/220 **+80%** AP in damage on a 4 second cooldown and 80/125/170/215/260 **+60%** AP on a Cooldown that goes 8/7/6/5/4 seconds. So while Veigar deals slightly more base damage with his Q, Annie has a much greater AP ratio, giving her better damage. Not to mention her passive lets ALL of her spells stun. This means she can have a 1.75 second stun any time she casts 4 spells. Even if she only used her Q 4 times she'd be able to stun as often as Veigar, and with more precision. Your statement is false: "All of Annie's CDs are lower that Veigars at both first and last level". At first level her E is equal to his W. At last level her Q & E are equal to his Q & W. In my experience on late-game annie, my AP is generally around 500-700, depending on build. With Veigar, it is often 800-1000. .6 * 800 = 480 .8 * 500 = 400 .6 * 1000 = 600 .8 * 700 = 560 So, it looks to me like veigar has both better base damage and will end up with more actual damage as well. But regardless, we are starting to get deeper into balance discussion. I think this indicates that his CDs aren't "absurdly huge"--he is COMPARABLE with others. If his CDs were 3x Annie's, that would be a different story. (BTW, Annie isn't the best mage to compare with--she is on the very LOW end of CDs.) Deciding whether Annie's higher ratio is offset by Veigar's ability to farm AP isn't the point of this post. The point is, I don't think you have proven your claim his CDs are "absurdly huge".
Konidias (NA)
: > **AFKs will cause you to win as often as they cause you to lose.** This is nonsense. You could very well get more AFKs on your own team than the enemy. There is no mysterious force that balances out how often the AFK is on a particular side. You could play 100 games and never get an AFK on the enemy team but get AFK on your team 10 times. Luck doesn't have a memory. It's not like "oh man, you had an afk in your previous game... this time you get the afk on the enemy team!"
Lets say I offer a game where we get teams of 5 people (you + 4 random people, and another team of 5 random people). Each player flips a coin. The team with the most heads showing wins. Now lets say that sometimes, a random player doesn't get to flip a coin. This is determined by giving each player a 6-sided die. Each player rolls it; if it is a 1 they can't flip their coin. One exception: YOU don't have to roll the die, you always get to flip the coin. Who is going to win more often? Your team or the enemy team? Well, over time, your team will win. Why? Because you will more often have 5 people flipping a coin. Because there is a bigger chance of the enemy team having fewer people flipping coins, since 5 of them have to roll the "AFK" die, but only 4 of your team do. (This is assuming you don't AFK). So no, it isn't nonsense, it is statistics. You could say "Nonsense--my team could all roll 1's on their die a bunch of times and my team loses." And that is true--that could happen. But if you play enough games, due to how statistics works, the enemy team will have more AFKs/Leavers than your team in aggregate. That is, unless there is a factor in matchmaking that assigns people more likely to be AFK/leavers to your team instead of the enemy team. I am willing to bet there is no such mechanism.
: Potential Leaver Ban For Technical Issues and Matters of Real Life
Why are you playing LoL while helping around the house? If you want to do that, then I think it is fair that the leaver system hits you with a ban--if you go AFK to do housework, you are hurting your team.
: >He isn't in the middle--there are more below 340 than above it. Yo I said pretty much in the middle, and you completely ignored the fact that many of the champs below him have other mechanics that increase their speed or ground they cover otherwise. >Other champions may spend 860 on a blasting wand. You get a chalice for the same price, and the same 40 AP from farming your Q. Veigar has to give something up in order to get an extra ~20 gold of stats from every minion he kills with Q... The gold he gets from last hitting with his Q isn't anything unique to Veigar. Anyone can last hit with anything... So why should he have to give something up to do something any other champion can do? Now if you meant he has to give up something for the AP he gets from last hitting with his Q, and not the gold, then you're also still wrong because that's already making up for Veigars absurdly huge CDs. Because you see that "extra ~20 gold of stats" from last hitting minions that Veigar gets.. everyone else gets too. So it wouldn't make sense for other champions to be able to put that gold to actually good use when Veigar has to use it just to stay in lane. >Yes, this means I often get shoved into my tower. >But they have to be much more cautious once I hit 6. That's not entirely true. Have you ever been level 6, or even 10 Veigar and unloaded on someone with <70% health? You're not going to finish them off by the time your Q is done with its CD, unless you get a gank from your jungler. Which is again what I mean by Veigar is team dependent. If they have <70% health or have a potion, they can go right in so long as they've warded. You'll stun them, Q them, W them, and nuke them and they'll probably have between 20 and 30% health remaining, which you no longer have any spells to deal with. Thus they take a potion or recall, and your ulti is now on CD for over 100 seconds.
> >He isn't in the middle--there are more below 340 than above it. > > Yo I said pretty much in the middle, and you completely ignored the fact that many of the champs below him have other mechanics that increase their speed or ground they cover otherwise. You said "Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things"--smack dab in the middle is stronger than just "kind of in the middle". He is better than most of the other mages. Kassadin has 340, and he is practically melee. Morgana 335. Ziggs 325. Annie 335. Lux 330. Swain 335. > > >Other champions may spend 860 on a blasting wand. You get a chalice for the same price, and the same 40 AP from farming your Q. > Veigar has to give something up in order to get an extra ~20 gold of stats from every minion he kills with Q... > > The gold he gets from last hitting with his Q isn't anything unique to Veigar. Anyone can last hit with anything... So why should he have to give something up to do something any other champion can do? > > Now if you meant he has to give up something for the AP he gets from last hitting with his Q, and not the gold, then you're also still wrong because that's already making up for Veigars absurdly huge CDs. > > Because you see that "extra ~20 gold of stats" from last hitting minions that Veigar gets.. everyone else gets too. So it wouldn't make sense for other champions to be able to put that gold to actually good use when Veigar has to use it just to stay in lane. I think you may have misunderstood me. A champion last hits a minion and gets ~20 actual gold. Veiger kills a minion with Q and gets ~20 actual gold, and ~20 gold worth of stats (1 AP). Thus my statement of "~20 EXTRA gold worth of stats". My impression was that you were claiming it is unfair that Veig needs to buy mana items when other champs get offense items. My rebuttal was that Veig gets to buy a mana item, and his Q gives him the same AP that the other champion had to buy. As for his "absurdly huge CDs"... CDs from a few champions listed in Q/W/E/R - Q/W/E/R format (first is lowest level, last is max level). Annie: 4/8/10/120 - 4/8/10/80 Kassadin: 9/9/6/7 - 9/9/6/3 Lux: 15/14/10/80 - 11/10/10/50 Morgana: 11/10/23/120 - 11/10/15/100 Veigar: 8/10/20/130 - 4/10/16/90 Xerath: 9/14/13/130 - 5/10/11/100 Ziggs: 6/26/16/120 - 4/18/16/120 His cooldowns don't look much different than the others... he is better than morg & lux starting out, looks roughly on par with Ziggs (Q a little higher, W much shorter, E a bit higher). At max level he doesn't look so bad either... better CDs than ziggs all the way around. Roughly on-par with Xerath. Better than morg & lux. Annie has pretty low CDs, but her E isn't that great... I have heard the statistic that most pro-level team fights last 30 seconds. I think lower-level teamfights last 15-25 seconds, not positive though. Without CDR, veigar can throw out 4-6 Qs, 1-2 Ws, and an E. With 30% CDR, he can throw out 5-8 Qs, 2-3 Ws, and 1-2 Es. Doesn't seem so horrible to me. Calling the CDs "absurdly huge" seems quite the exageration. > > >Yes, this means I often get shoved into my tower. > > >But they have to be much more cautious once I hit 6. > > That's not entirely true. Have you ever been level 6, or even 10 Veigar and unloaded on someone with <70% health? You're not going to finish them off by the time your Q is done with its CD, unless you get a gank from your jungler. Which is again what I mean by Veigar is team dependent. If they have <70% health or have a potion, they can go right in so long as they've warded. You'll stun them, Q them, W them, and nuke them and they'll probably have between 20 and 30% health remaining, which you no longer have any spells to deal with. Thus they take a potion or recall, and your ulti is now on CD for over 100 seconds. Once I am lvl 5 or so I start harassing heavily with Q against most opponents. They must back off relatively quickly. Also, blue buff.
: > "Only" 340 MS? There are plenty of slower champs out there, and not many faster. He is pretty fast. > (MS ranges from 325 to 355, but many more champs are on the lower end than the higher end) Actually if you look at a MS table, like the one on the LOL wiki.. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Movement_speed/Table Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things. Plus most of the champs on the lower end of the table have abilities or builds that grant them bonus movement speed or are gap closers. Items like {{item:3086}} Zeal and such so they are, in fact, faster than Veigar when it really counts. > His E would be INSANELY overpowered if you didn't have to have good skill to land an edge on someone you want stunned. Yes I agree completely with you on this, and I never once said that it should stun the whole area. That would be... insanely OP. > I play Veig a lot and basically never have mana problems. > I run +3 MP5 from masteries and get a dorans at the start. That + passive is enough to sit in lane farming for a long time. Don't use your abilities other than Q. I do the exact same thing as you, actually. And it works well if your enemy just sits there and lets you farm and doesn't push. But they're inevitably going to do exactly that, and you're going to have to usually poke them back once they start hitting your tower with a Q or a W if Q is on CD. This is part of what I meant by Veigar being team dependant. If you've got a good jungler who can gank properly then you can continue to farm for quite a while without running out of mana. But without that, you're going to likely need to recall. Not to mention when your jungle does gank if you've got less than 60% of your mana you can't pull off your combo for the kill. > And I don't find his early game abysmal... I can safely farm vs almost any champion. This. I'm going to have to either call BS on this or your junglers have been amazing. Even every guide you read on Veigar states that his early game is pathetic. I don't see how you can "safely farm" against almost anybody without letting your tower get completely decimated or destroyed in the process. And you shouldn't have to get a chalice just to make up for your mana deficiency to farm your Q, while other champions are getting offensive items because they don't need a stopgap measure just to farm.
> > "Only" 340 MS? There are plenty of slower champs out there, and not many faster. He is pretty fast. > > (MS ranges from 325 to 355, but many more champs are on the lower end than the higher end) > > Actually if you look at a MS table, like the one on the LOL wiki.. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Movement_speed/Table > Veigar is pretty much smack dab in the middle of things. Plus most of the champs on the lower end of the table have abilities or builds that grant them bonus movement speed or are gap closers. Items like {{item:3086}} Zeal and such so they are, in fact, faster than Veigar when it really counts. He isn't in the middle--there are more below 340 than above it. > > And I don't find his early game abysmal... I can safely farm vs almost any champion. > > This. I'm going to have to either call BS on this or your junglers have been amazing. Even every guide you read on Veigar states that his early game is pathetic. I don't see how you can "safely farm" against almost anybody without letting your tower get completely decimated or destroyed in the process. I level E at lvl 2, then max R > Q > E > W. Having the stun ready if they come in on you is necessary, but you wanna avoid having to use it--so I stay back a ways most of the time moving forward just to Q. Yes, this means I often get shoved into my tower. But they have to be much more cautious once I hit 6. > > And you shouldn't have to get a chalice just to make up for your mana deficiency to farm your Q, while other champions are getting offensive items because they don't need a stopgap measure just to farm. Other champions may spend 860 on a blasting wand. You get a chalice for the same price, and the same 40 AP from farming your Q. Veigar has to give something up in order to get an extra ~20 gold of stats from every minion he kills with Q...
: Clearly defined strengths and weaknesses is not equal to being well balanced, it just means that they're obvious and clear-cut. Which means they're easy to counter. His choices are very meaningful, as they can easily get him killed. It just feels like his risk is heavier than other champions risk for the same reward. But yeah, his ulti is definitely what makes Veigar Veigar. Pretty weak against AD tanky champs though. (Unless fed, but everyone's good fed)
> but everyone's good fed Hey ArcanesWrath--have you met my friend Leona?
: An Unbiased Discussion of Veigar: Give me your opinion
So... "Only" 340 MS? There are plenty of slower champs out there, and not many faster. He is pretty fast. (MS ranges from 325 to 355, but many more champs are on the lower end than the higher end) His E would be INSANELY overpowered if you didn't have to have good skill to land an edge on someone you want stunned. I play Veig a lot and basically never have mana problems. I run +3 MP5 from masteries and get a dorans at the start. That + passive is enough to sit in lane farming for a long time. Don't use your abilities other than Q. Then get either a 2nd dorans or a chalice. And I don't find his early game abysmal... I can safely farm vs almost any champion.
: For the 100th time PRACTICE MODE!!
: Oh fun. That seems really bad for Ashe's team. Or do the auto's use the mana that the ability would?
Except when ashe's autos are all a stunning super arrow? :-D
: I'll leave some words regarding safe farming. ----------------------------- Every champion has a zone of control. Meaning there is a range for how far they can: * poke with an auto attack or ability * initiate on you, and maybe kill you. For every champion it is different. This is important to Malphite because he is a melee champion, but he has a range on his Q and R. The way trading champion damage in lane works is a cost/benefit analysis of "is it worth it?" * Can you give damage that won't be healed away? good * Did you take more damage than you gave? bad * Did it cost me a lot of mana to poke him away to farm minions? Worth if you are about to go back to base. Not worth if you need that mana to keep him from killing you under tower. * Does it cost them more resourses to poke me out of the minions than damage I take? worth. But don't die, or extend past river without a ward in the river bush below you. ------------------------ Now for a really important tool: farming under your own tower. | To kill | Do in order | |- | Melee minion: | 2 tower shots + AA | | Caster minion: | AA + 1 tower shot + AA | | Cannon minion: | a bunch of tower shots + AA + 1 tower shot + AA| Tips: * Avoid using AoE abilities unless you can nuke the wave faster than tower can shoot. * Adjust your damage as your minions do damage too. * Tower prioritizes as follows: * Cannon minion * Weakest melee minion * Weakest caster minion * Avoid using spells period to clear minions. Hope that helps. -------------------- Edit: How could i forget about freezing lane! So, a MASSIVELY important tool for you, once you get the hang of last hitting minions, is to be able to freeze the minion battle line anywhere in lane you want. It is possible to zone away the other champion, kill their minions faster than they kill yours, AND have THEIR minions PUSH lane at the same time! This makes it much safer for you to farm and not worry about a second champion getting at you and you dieing 2v1. How to do it: 1. Only last hit minions 2. Try to keep their cannon minion alive as long as possible while getting yours to die as fast as possible. 3. Don't kill caster minions unless they are about to be killed by your minions 4. Don't kill any minion unless it is about to be killed by your minions/tower What this does for you: * Once you have established dominance over the minions for any reason, (*even if you Are "losing" lane, you can have dominance under tower. You can freeze lane just outside tower range!*) you can get a farm advantage, and set the other guy up for a gank. * Builds up a HUGE wave of minions to either: * crash into their tower * discourage them attacking you due to the minion damage they take * Minions will immediately begin attacking any champion that does damage to you. If they attack you while you have a big wave, they take a TON of damage. --------------------------- Edit2: One last thing #If the other champion can kill you, even uder your own tower, don't be there. So... * Go heal up at base and come back if that's all you need * Leave lane and go help mid or bottom if your opponent is too much * If you do this option, make sure you can help take mid tower quick, then have you and someone else go take down top tower. *You should try to drop mid tower by 20 minutes if possible. Top tower is helpful for late game (@ 24+ minutes), not mid game (@ 15+ minutes) * Roam and gank like you're the jungler, but afterwards, bring back help to push your lane asap.
A couple additions to freezing the lane mechanics: You can think of the minion wave as having both a force, and a resistance. The waves each apply their force to each other, and it is offset by resistance. y = your wave, e = enemy wave F = force, R = resistance. if (Fy - Re) > (Fe - Ry) The wave will push to the enemy tower (how quickly depends on how much the left side is bigger than the right side). If (Fy - Re) < (Fe - Ry) The wave will push to the your tower (how quickly depends on how much the left side is smaller than the right side). And most importantly: If (Fy - Re) = (Fe - Ry) The wave won't move. The 'force' is the damage the minions can do. Cannon minion has a lot of damage. Caster minions have a decent amount. Melee minions have very little. The 'resistance' is how much HP the minions have. A cannon minion has a lot, melee minions have a decent amount, and caster minions don't have very much. To manipulate the wave, you need to adjust those variables. How? 1) You can reduce the resistance of the enemy side by attacking or using abilities on the enemy minions. Note that even last hitting will do this (lets say enemy has 50 health left and you last hit it... that 50 health would have soaked up a few more minion attacks, you just pushed the wave a little by reducing the enemy wave's resistance by a bit.) 2) You can artificially act as resistance by tanking the enemy minions if you have no minions left. Running sideways can save a bit of your health while still leading them around. This is a good thing to do if you need to stop them from going into range of your tower. Alternatively, you can do this by autoattacking your opponent while near their minions; their minions will attack you instead of hitting your own minions. So, a couple tactics then: 1) If the enemy wave is bigger than yours, and you want it to stay just outside your tower range: a) If the wave is MUCH bigger than yours, kill off some casters (to reduce the force of their wave). b) Once it isn't TOO much bigger (you'll have to practice to get a sense of the right size), only last hit, and try to do so as close to 0 HP as you can. (E.g., hit it when it has 10 hp left, not 70, if you can help it) c) Due to being bigger, their wave will destroy your wave eventually. When this happens, you RUN INTO THE MIDDLE of the enemy wave to keep it from walking into your tower. d) When your minions arrive, the enemy will engage them instead. This costs you health, but if you have decent armor & lifesteal, you'll get it back. You can freeze indefinitely by doing this, so long as you try to ensure that the enemy wave keeps a lot of casters around. Note that if the enemy wave isn't reasonably bigger than yours, this will not be able to last indefinitely--you'll slowly widdle their wave down in size until your wave is bigger, at which point you'll slowly push. You want to find equilibrium where the enemy wave kills yours pretty darn fast, but not so fast that you can't tank them in between waves. If they don't kill your wave fast enough, they'll get widdled down and you can't keep it up. If they kill it too fast, you'll take too much damage tanking them. Note that in situations where the enemy wave is slowly widdled away, your side will build up a massive minion wave that will push forward very quickly. 2) Resetting. If you push a wave into a tower (or the enemy wave hits your tower), a few different things can happen. a) If there are no other minions around, the waves will RESET. This means the force & resistance will be completely equal in the next wave. (In which case minor bits of luck will determine who pushes--if on one side all 3 casters target a different melee minion, but on the other all 3 casters target the same minion, the side with the focus fire will push forward.) b) If there are minions around (on the same team as the tower), they will get a bit damaged (they get focused over the tower). This will cause the wave to slowly push into the tower again.
Halutza (NA)
: What's a good number for minions killed vs champs?
This is really hard to answer for a bunch of reasons. A better question is: What is a good number of minions by 10 minutes? (And then you can adjust for kills) The answer to that is ~90 (for pro-level players). ~60 is gold level. I'd aim for at least 40 even though you are new. You can adjust this for kills: if you have 3 kills by 10 minutes, it is likely that affected your ability to get minions. (You have to go back to base more often because getting the kill meant you were fighting, which means you may be low on HP and/or mana) Each kill is worth roughly 15 minions in gold, but I'd still aim for 40 minions even with kills. A couple general tips: - The game isn't about kills--the game is about destroying your opponents Nexus. Kills are nice, but focusing too hard on them can be detrimental. Example: Lets say your team wins a 5v5 teamfight and there are 2 survivors on the enemy team. Both of them are really low HP. Several simplified options: Go kill dragon, go destroy an enemy tower, or chase those 2 survivors around for 40 seconds trying to get a kill on them. Hint: The correct answer isn't to waste 40 seconds chasing them around :). (If you can get them within a few seconds, fine. If they are getting away, just stop chasing them & go get an objective. Dragon is worth more to your team than the 2 kills (~100-600 more global gold depending on if anyone gets assists on those kills, and how late in the game it is). AND then dragon is gone so enemy team can't get it. The tower is worth a bit less in global gold, but is a permanent disadvantage for the enemy team, and one step closer to destroying their nexus. Second example: During laning you get an enemy down to 100 hp, and they are recalling by their tower. IF you can dive them and get out without dying, that is one thing. But if you know you will die if you dive, it isn't worth it. (even if you definitely get the kill, it isn't worth it). Why? Because you can swing a bigger advantage by: - Staying in lane & shoving the minion wave into their tower. (This will have their tower kill a bunch of minions while they are gone, denying them some XP & gold.) Then YOU go back and heal, and you get back to lane before they can shove anything into your turret. - During laning, if you focus on farming instead of fighting, you'll come out better. - Fighting is chancy. It is better if you can ZONE your opponent. This means being enough of a threat that they cannot last hit minions for gold when you are nearby. In this case you wanna keep the minion wave AWAY from their tower, and stand near it and keep them from hitting anything. (You still last hit for gold.) - Learn to control a minion wave is good. (Learning to just glance at it and know which way it will push, learning how to manipulate where it will push or how quickly, etc)
: > WTF "purely cosmetic effect" > You do understand that they're so expensive because they're pretty much the only thing Riot is selling. > Would you rather them be cheaper but have Riot also sell in game buffs???? Think about it. A standard full retail game costs $50-60. $10 for a single skin for a single character? It's ridiculous. This is a quantifiable assessment. The overall content you are purchasing is laughable relative to how much you are spending. Fortunately for Riot people are willing to pay their silly prices.
This is by design. You don't have to spend any money at all if you prefer. I buy lots of RP because: - I enjoy mixing it up with skins & such - I wanted to unlock champions faster - I want to support Riot. If you think $10 is too expensive for a cosmetic modification, don't buy it. Riot has kept this game free to play, and done a damn good job of it; all content that can affect your ability to win a game is unlockable via IP.
: Do we really only get 2 Rune Pages?
Do you really only get one champion + 10 freebies? :-D
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MorikTheMad

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