zPOOPz (NA)
: if say I agree with Imperial Pandaa and disagree with you, in stead of parroting or copy and paste what pandaa said, a simple downvote on you and upvote on him convey my disagreement with you and agreement with him. Now if 30 people who downvoted you typed pretty much the same disagreement, then this thread will be flooded with pretty much the same 30 comments. Downvote and upvote are much more clean to convey agreement/disagreement without spamming the same comments 30 times. Besides, you called the community psychopathic, which is a little overblown on a more serious medical condition. What exactly were you expecting? Tons of upvotes?
> Besides, you called the community psychopathic, which is a little overblown on a more serious medical condition. What exactly were you expecting? Tons of upvotes? I will be honest, I wasn't expecting that part to garner as much attention as it did. I think people asking for bans is - lets go with unhealthy. It is a game - at least in my opinion. And, I thought psychopath would a good way to convey the meaning. I certainly was wrong on that front. Is there ever a time a post deserves no up or down vote? I would think something of little interest would be the things that sit 0-20 upvotes, and things that people want to talk about would be 20+ with lots of people upvoting. Then, the things that are nonsense get downvotes, things unworthy of participating. I believe that is the reason they made the up/down vote system, to try and filter out silly things. I for sure expect distension on a controversial topic, but that doesn't make unworthy of discussion. On another note, I clearly did something wrong in my post. Almost no one understands the point. I've had many people talking about following the rules. I have no idea what that has to do with my whole post. I must of messed up somewhere. Even worse is when I listen to other peoples positions, try to work their position into the argument, and then apparently what they said is now terribly wrong. > if say I agree with Imperial Pandaa and disagree with you, in stead of parroting or copy and paste what pandaa said, a simple downvote on you and upvote on him convey my disagreement with you and agreement with him. I agree on this. I wouldn't agrue against upvoting and downing in that comment thread. Its the other threads where people miss everything, and I explain, and get the same net outcome. Why would you upvote the guy that missed everything, and downvote the clarification? What benefit does upvoting a comment which appears as though they didn't even bother reading anything bring? I'll bring it up: > i ruined 4 other players experience on a round because i didn't want to play with them why am i getting low priority que? Literally - 'Herp derp, guys mad at his ban, lol.' 10 upvotes, 1 downvote(not my downvote). Has nothing to do any portion of my post.
: Except I can accept that I can be wrong about stuff. However there is two things you aren't factoring it seems. 1. I am referencing the way things currently are. 2. I am stating my opinion that leavers, and people who are toxic (gameplay or verbal) deserve punishment. You have yet to actually present ~~an idea~~,sorry let me correct myself, 1 (bad) idea for improving 4v5 situations. Your suggestion is simply "Everyone can leave"! There wasn't a contradiction. The person who left because they were upset should remain in the game and finish it. That person should finish the game and then quit League for the day or at least take a break. Do you have a suggestion for making the game more enjoyable for the 9 people dealing with the leaver? One that isn't "streamline the game and let everyone who wants to leave, leave mid game."
I presented a question, with a contradiction. You ignored it, and talked about other stuff. You did not acknowledge anything in the question. You do not read what is said. I try to set up a premise where we both agree to move forward. You cannot accept anything. You must be the person who is correct. You are the ego psycho's I complaint about. I use your own points, and apparently you can't agree with them. I would use your 1. 2. points, but I'm sure you will just rephrase everything all over again. Your 1. actually still begs the question I raised. But you will just ignore that. Whatever, enjoy life.
Kyaza (NA)
: AFK and Leavers do get punished though.
They do. I think they should not be. We weren't back in the early seasons. There was outcry, and they introduced leaverbuster. Now everyone cries about every other issue, wintrading, trolling, inting, ect. I dislike it as much as everyone else. Where I differ is that I think the best solution is to go next game. I think you could make it very easy to get to the next game if you did want to leave. I think there are things you could do to make games to end up 4v5, 4v4, or 3v4 more enjoyable so people that do have people leave still get a fun experience. And, while I do focus on the afk/leaving issue a lot, I don't think anything(except cheating/exploits) should result in any banning. Just play the game and chill. I think we get far more frustration from being unable to leave games and having to deal with losing experiences(and other stuff outside our control) for the entirety of a game. If you could quit and get into a new game in a couple minutes, awesome. If people leave your game, outlets that continue to make it enjoyable and not inevitable defeat would still make the game enjoyable. I don't believe you can 'fix' the community. There isn't anything you can do about humans getting frustrated, or doing poorly, or geting enjoyment from inting, or life cutting the connection mid game. I don't think any are worse than the others, and making a system that acknowledges and makes everything better would be an improvement.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Tyson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=774Tk8KJ,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-20T17:48:30.319+0000) > > I mean top lane dies lvl 1, and the entire team leaves, and the remaining team has to stay to finish the game in order to get their win. You would have to streamline it so games that get super lopsided(2v5, not killwise) just end quickly, pull the bandaid off immediately. And that entire team that left deserves to get a strike on Leaverbuster and whatever penalty they are at on it. > > Just a question. Are you acknowledging that making games better when someone leaves is somehow bad and we shouldn't do it? I'm giving you the benefit that you are actually trying to make real points, and not just prove how superior your knowledge is. This stands out, and I might have to reevaluate the other responses if so. The entire premise is that you deserve whatever is in place to deal with Leavers. Whoever wants to quit, should finish their game then quit. If you quit mid match, you deserve a penalty. > > Do you think: Riot should do nothing, because making a 4v5 playable is a bad idea, and these 4v5 games are both terrible for everybody and deserve to exist, and we should prevent people from playing who generate leaverbuster. This is the best solution for all players. Your whole post was how you felt the only penalties should be chat bans and name changes. If a team doesn't want to play 4v5 they can ff 15 or agree to open. 4v5 doesn't automatically mean lost game though. The moment you allow others to afk with no penalty is the moment the system gets worse. Some one d/cs, "fuck this" person leaves (note the difference of leave vs d/c), d/c reconnects, game is now a 4v5 still because player b got to leave without penalty. Leaverbuster gives LPQ at most usually. Maybe marks an account for manual review if someone triggers too often. You can't get rid of LPQ/Leaverbuster without playing games and staying connected.
I just gave you an opportunity to lay out your position on that point. You once again ignored what was said and wanted to prove how smart you are. You have a complete inability to acknowledge that anything you said could ever be wrong, and just keep spewing nonsense. I quoted both my original comment, and your response. There is a clear contradiction. I ask you to clear it up for me. You ignored it entirely, and made new points you believe. Enjoy jerking off to your intelligence. Thank you for wasting my time.
: It doesn't matter if you're harsh or not. Consider downvotes to mean "I don't agree with this." It's not positive, negative, compliment, or insult.
I don't think that is how boards are supposed to work. That is what comments are for. You are supposed to upvote things that belong on the bopards, and downvote things that don't belong on the boards. Apparently, dissenting opinions have no place on these boards. I think I have been quite good with my comments clarifying issues. People have thought I'm complaining about a punishment, and their comments get upvoted. I have not been punished in any way, nor have I left a game or done anything that would get me a punishment. Apparently me explaining that deserves a downvote. So one of 2 things is going on. Either it is 'disagreeable' that I don't think punishments should not be punished, **AND** it is disagreeable that I do follow the code and don't negatively impact games. Or, you all are sheep, I have said something you somehow deemed undesirable, and anything I say must be bad and downvoted to show that desenters don't belong. Check the first comment thread, and tell me I'm wrong. The one with meowwow7. He completely ignored the entire post, and got upvotes. I clarified, and even informed everyone I am in fact, not toxic in the games. Downvotes. Sheep mentality.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Tyson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=774Tk8KJ,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T22:14:14.194+0000) > > That seems like a silly burden to put on the millions of people who play the game. Just expect people to go watch streams and discover everything broken? And, even if you know something exists, that does not make it fun to play against. There are a lot of things that can be unfun to play against. Yet the burden of making the game a 4v5 with no repercussion is perfectly fine? > > I think both situations are fixed by not playing with those players, not forcing you to play with them. Brilliant, lets be put in the shitty man down situation because it is better for them to be gone? And because of 1 person being an ass I should leave the game because fuck the other 3 teammates too, right? > > Number 1, I didn't break those guidelines. I'm questioning them. And the issue why they do exist is because of people complaining. Leaver buster was introduced a long time ago. They would need to change some things around to make it work. Can't imagine a 5 man mid game vs no opponents taking 12 minutes to finish would be fun. You would have to stream ling things for sure. Didn't mean you, you. Meant the general you. Next time I'll use they to avoid confusion. Are you talking about opening a lane? Aka surrender pre 15. If so, the whole team still has to agree and that still doesn't mean afks should be excusable. > > This is a game. You are not being paid. And you do not have choice in your teammates. As much as you say 'your expected to play', you should also be expected to try hard, not ruin games, cooperate, ect. I think I am being reasonable in that not everyone does this. And, I don't think it should be reasonable to demand that from others. Where do you draw the line? Is someone playing the new champ in ranked deserving of a ban because he could play a champ he is better at? Is offrolling deserving of bans? And what about when you tryhard, but your teammates don't. What if you have some kids dance partying in the bot lane, not csing and feeding. Should you ban them for jumping on their computer and having, or me for not wanting to deal with it? I say no banning, chill, and play the game. Playing a new champ in ranked. Perfectly fine if they are playing to win. Playing an off role, playing to win. Not punishable. In short, if you are actually playing to win, you are not doing anything wrong. If someone is doing something you don't like, yes, you should be punished if you decide to leave. The only time you should be leaving is if you actually get in a 2+ hour hostage game. Which if that happens enough to trigger Leaverbuster, there is probably something else going on. You wanna play a game you can freely leave? Play a custom game or practice tool, or go play an online game that has a system to replace missing players. > > *To this end, if you could get into your next game in, I don't know, something like 3 minutes, leaving wouldn't be a big deal. Top lane getting rolled? Just go next. When a team drops to a certain number of players, it auto surrenders. Maybe work our some other things I don't forsee and make the game fun. Remake exists. You want a pre 15 surrender with no consequence. I disagree. Again, when you press that play button, you acknowledge that you may be playing a game for up to an hour or more. If someone can't give that time, then they shouldn't have queued. > > True. The ratio between whining and "toxic" speech is quite heavy to the whining. And I do see the irony in my 'whining' about whiners, I guess the difference is I do it once a year on the boards, vs the every game whining about how this 1 person is responsibly for the loss. Turn /All chat back off then. Hell, turn off your ally chat while you are at it. >Guess by the downvotes nobody cares anyways. Just keep the circlejerk on how *these people need to be banned* posts all over these boards and reddit. Like banning fixes behaviour. Like the behaviour is wrong to begin with. Its a game, and everyone wants to ruin another persons time(whether is inting or 'punishers'). You can't get rid of frustration. You can't channel 100% of frustration into productiveness. Just streamline the ability to get into your next game. Do they need to be banned for afking? Only if they are chronic leavers. If you play 21 games and left 18 of them, i really doubt it is an internet problem or emergency. Do they need to punish verbal toxicity? They have 3 steps before a perm. From what we have been told before is those who have been punsihed, 50% reform at each step. So yes, punishments can work. > > I seem to remember a lot of fun 4v5, 4v4, and 3v4 games back in Season 2 before internet was decent. Maybe do some shit to make those types of games playable for all 9 people involved? That way your not 'ruining' their time when you get sick and tired of playing. Maybe that person should finish their game before logging off rhen. > >-snip- I'll be blunt. Their mental state is not my fucking responsibility. I am not their therapist. I do not know if they had a bad day, week, month, or whatever. We are two strangers who decided to play a game and got put together. I don't want the life story, only expect on to try their best. Same for me. Only I know my mental state. If I feel like I'll lose it, then I remove my self from Ally chat so I cannot type nor see what they say. Get through the game, evaluate my self. Quit for the day if need be.
> Aka surrender pre 15. If so, the whole team still has to agree and that still doesn't mean afks should be excusable. I mean top lane dies lvl 1, and the entire team leaves, and the remaining team has to stay to finish the game in order to get their win. You would have to streamline it so games that get super lopsided(2v5, not killwise) just end quickly, pull the bandaid off immediately. > I seem to remember a lot of fun 4v5, 4v4, and 3v4 games back in Season 2 before internet was decent. Maybe do some shit to make those types of games playable for all 9 people involved? That way your not 'ruining' their time when you get sick and tired of playing. > **Maybe that person should finish their game before logging off rhen.** Just a question. Are you acknowledging that making games better when someone leaves is somehow bad and we shouldn't do it? I'm giving you the benefit that you are actually trying to make real points, and not just prove how superior your knowledge is. This stands out, and I might have to reevaluate the other responses if so. Do you think: Riot should do nothing, because making a 4v5 playable is a bad idea, and these 4v5 games are both terrible for everybody and deserve to exist, and we should prevent people from playing who generate leaverbuster. This is the best solution for all players.
: Just saying, riot doesn't ban for a game for 1 "bad game" Everyone is entitled to their opinions on how riot operates their(tencents) game Riot has to blindly punish everyone equally, since having exceptions to the rule is obtuse. Riot can't know you dc'd by accident on intentional You agree to their rules when playing their game I play tft :P
Good points. I'll just point out that leaverbuster came out around Season 4, and there was no punishment before then. Community complained about leavers and they introduced the current system. I believe people leaving is much less toxic than forcing them to play it out. However, I do follow the rules. I just think they should be changed.
Ebonmaw (EUNE)
: >What if you acknowledge that leaving happens, no matter what you try to do to dissuade it? Internet goes down, power goes out, IRL happens, and sometimes you have a bad week and can't take anymore. I know it happends , but there is a difference between intentional and unintentional ,judging by your post it souds like its intended to leave because you dont want to play with that spesific person. >Why keep a system that makes afk's feel bad for everyone? Why remove a system that prevents people with bad internet to play future games(meaning less ruined games) Or gives you the abillity to ruin the game for everybody and not get punished for it ... oh boy the trolls will enjoy to abuse such a tool to ruin more games in the future. > Now, if you're are going to say that we can't try to make changes to make the game better, then I guess we are done. The game is already in a pretty good shape. (its not perfect ,,,perfection is a cruel mistress) >This is the only game that has forced me on threat of punishment to continue when I would rather not. I do not like it. I Finish the game...dont play in the future ? (problem solved) Since you dont like it dont press the play button. >In every other game I have ever played, if I want to quit, I can quit. Well this is not just any orther game , this is league of legends ,, its not heroes of the storm. >. I think it should be fixed(including what you do with the other 9 people). How do you fix something thats not broken ? >. If you believe that frustrated people should be forced to play with the people who are making them frustrated, then goo day sir. If those people cant handle the stuff on the internet , the trolls , the bad people. they should not even use the internet , cause it will get the frustrated every time they use it. Forced to play ? They made the dessision to press the play button and play with 4 random players. (instead of playing with 4 friends) As far as for me ... you see if a person is trying to make me frustrated , i know that i can use the system against them so they wont be able to play in the future , meaning he wont make me or orthers frustrated. I guess we are done. {{sticker:katarina-love}}
Lol, definitely done. The logical fallacies the justify your positions are too much for me. I based some of these premises on what you typed, and now they are all wrong? I'm looking for solution, and your showing how smart and good at debating you are. GL in esports friend.
Ebonmaw (EUNE)
: >What did I say that's worth a downvote? This >Just saw a post on Reddit asking Riot to start banning players that afk. I don't even understand why we have a ban system to begin with. The only thing that should exist is chat banning for trigger words, and whatever they do for names that contain trigger words. I cannot understand how you could want somebody banned because they do not want to play with you. This problem never existed in SC2(which had ranked 3v3 and 4v4), which had leavers and major toxicity. Never an issue in Call of Duty, a major toxic game. People just play the game. The point of a game is to play it. If your not having fun, 2 easy options: either stop playing, or leave,try again, and hope for a better experience. ____________________ >I don't even understand why we have a ban system to begin with. We have it to prevent people that broke the rules to play in the future. ___________ >The only thing that should exist is chat banning for trigger words, and whatever they do for names that contain trigger words. aha....[are you sure about that?](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/PQVQTLJN-forced-name-change) ______________ >I cannot understand how you could want somebody banned because they do not want to play with you. Because it will fuck up the game for the 9 people that intend to play the game.(also its harder for the team to win a 4 vs 5 game) (break the rules get > kicked out) _________________ >This problem never existed in SC2(which had ranked 3v3 and 4v4), which had leavers and major toxicity. Never an issue in Call of Duty, a major toxic game. People just play the game. The point of a game is to play it. If your not having fun, 2 easy options: either stop playing, or leave,try again, and hope for a better experience. What if you never get that so called "better experience" and waist all day trying to find it...that sounds a like lots of fun. _____________ >The point of a game is to play it In league is to play it till the enemy nexus is down. and not leave in the middle of the game because somebody doesn't reach up to your expectations. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
> Because it will fuck up the game for the 9 people that intend to play the game.(also its harder for the team to win a 4 vs 5 game) (break the rules get > kicked out) What if you put in mechanics that 'balanced' out games that were 4v5? What if you acknowledge that leaving happens, no matter what you try to do to dissuade it? Internet goes down, power goes out, IRL happens, and sometimes you have a bad week and can't take anymore. Why keep a system that makes afk's feel bad for everyone? The 9 who stay, and the person who's internet goes down and is frantically trying to avoid a leaverbuster. > n league is to play it till the enemy nexus is down. and not leave in the middle of the game because somebody doesn't reach up to your expectations. Now, you can say that me thinking games exist for people to go have fun is wrong. But I will for sure say that this quote is silly and juvenile. That's almost(not quite, but close) like saying the only way to play is the meta way. Now, if you're are going to say that we can't try to make changes to make the game better, then I guess we are done. In every other game I have ever played, if I want to quit, I can quit. This is the only game that has forced me on threat of punishment to continue when I would rather not. I do not like it. I think it should be fixed(including what you do with the other 9 people). If you believe that frustrated people should be forced to play with the people who are making them frustrated, then goo day sir. That is a preposterous idea to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Tyson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=774Tk8KJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-19T18:27:09.004+0000) > > I think it is a fault of the developers. Games are designed to last 20-40 minutes. It is a game with constantly developing patches. Riot makes Banner of Command absolutely busted, why shouldn't you be able to leave? Riot makes the game super snowbally, why should you continue playing against a 10/0 Riven(or whatever)? Fans at sporting events leave stadiums(and they pay $300+ for tickets) at halftime if the game is a blowout. And when they hit that queue button, they know damn well that the game can take upwards to an hour. Read patch notes, watch personalities react to "busted" changes, and decide if you want to play. Banner is busted and you know it is. Either play the games knowing it is busted or wait until it is nerfed. Let's not pretend everything is busted. People are going to complain that something is busted if they aren't familiar with the match up. No, you don't get to compare it to NON Players leaving a blowout game. Those fans aren't the ones required to stay. The players are. Until a team hits the Mercy point level, the teams are expected to continue play. > > We have the option to mute chat, mute pings, and mute emotes. Also, league is a competitive game with people. There are plenty of other game genre that won't have you deal with people. Every sport has people that act like asshats. I couldn't imagine having somebody police a badminton game I play for banter, or god forbid I decide I'm done midgame. Imagine I get banned from a chess website because I quit a game. Oh, so it is competitive to communicate and belittle your own team? But god forbide you be expected to stay and not afk/leave. You don't get to say it is competitive for the point of banter but not enough so to require a player remain. Yes, every sport may have asshats. Guess what though; an official (referee for those who may not be familiar with the term), can penalize a player for unsportsmanlike conduct if they hear banter they feel crossed a line. And yes, depending where you play, places will bar you from playing at their facilities (including online) if you frequently quit mid game. Especially if it is a team thing. Because remember, this isn't a single player game. There are up to 9 other people playing too. > > Is it ideal for somebody to quit a game? It about as ideal as somebody soft inting because they can't quit a game. About as bad as somebody typing about how bad their teammates are, and begging for bans in all chat. Every person believes they should go 100% winrate, and the second anything is off(no ganks, somebody dies a couple times, ect), the shit hits the roof. Inting gets punished (not as quickly/efficiently as we like), although you neglected to include that being punishable in your op. Chat is handled by ifs. Afk by leaverbuster. If you can't follow the guidelines a business establishment has set, then why don't they deserve a punishment? > > How much easier is life if, a game isn't going your way, you just go next? A teammate is 'being toxic'? "Sucks I got this guy in game, I'll just try another lobby". "My teammate just afked?" "Sucks, I'll try another lobby. Maybe I can make my enemy laner ragequit and get a win." It's called trying to surrender then. If your team agrees, boom done, go next. If the team doesn't surrender, you are expected to play until either the surrender vote passes or your nexus explodes. > > I don't really care about afks. I enjoy lane phase, and can still do my own shit if there is an afk, and just surrender later. I don't care about toxic players, because they are actually quite rare. What I can't stand is the ban criers every damn game. Losing early, "report my jungler". 10 minutes later when we have the lead you get the message from all chat "9x ___". How any of you have fun is beyond me. Just play the game. Who gives a shit about afks or toxics. Compared to the crying, and worse the fear that riot might actually ban you because maybe you actually did get 18 reports in the last 2 games and riot might automate some garbage. Or maybe you try Teemo support middle and Nightblue is upset, so you get a 14 day suspension. Just chill and go next game. Know what is funny? You already mentioned this. You have a mute button. If you feel someone is crying, mute them and move on. Play your game. Report them post game if you want. Not going to really address your Nubrac remark because people can't agree if it was trolling or not. As for the 18 reports in 2 games, won't actually matter unless you actually broke the rules/guidelines.
> Read patch notes, watch personalities react to "busted" changes, and decide if you want to play. That seems like a silly burden to put on the millions of people who play the game. Just expect people to go watch streams and discover everything broken? And, even if you know something exists, that does not make it fun to play against. There are a lot of things that can be unfun to play against. > Oh, so it is competitive to communicate and belittle your own team? But god forbide you be expected to stay and not afk/leave. You don't get to say it is competitive for the point of banter but not enough so to require a player remain. I think both situations are fixed by not playing with those players, not forcing you to play with them. > Inting gets punished (not as quickly/efficiently as we like), although you neglected to include that being punishable in your op. Chat is handled by ifs. Afk by leaverbuster. If you can't follow the guidelines a business establishment has set, then why don't they deserve a punishment? Number 1, I didn't break those guidelines. I'm questioning them. And the issue why they do exist is because of people complaining. Leaver buster was introduced a long time ago. They would need to change some things around to make it work. Can't imagine a 5 man mid game vs no opponents taking 12 minutes to finish would be fun. You would have to stream ling things for sure. > It's called trying to surrender then. If your team agrees, boom done, go next. If the team doesn't surrender, you are expected to play until either the surrender vote passes or your nexus explodes. This is a game. You are not being paid. And you do not have choice in your teammates. As much as you say 'your expected to play', you should also be expected to try hard, not ruin games, cooperate, ect. I think I am being reasonable in that not everyone does this. And, I don't think it should be reasonable to demand that from others. Where do you draw the line? Is someone playing the new champ in ranked deserving of a ban because he could play a champ he is better at? Is offrolling deserving of bans? And what about when you tryhard, but your teammates don't. What if you have some kids dance partying in the bot lane, not csing and feeding. Should you ban them for jumping on their computer and having, or me for not wanting to deal with it? I say no banning, chill, and play the game. *To this end, if you could get into your next game in, I don't know, something like 3 minutes, leaving wouldn't be a big deal. Top lane getting rolled? Just go next. When a team drops to a certain number of players, it auto surrenders. Maybe work our some other things I don't forsee and make the game fun. > Know what is funny? You already mentioned this. You have a mute button. If you feel someone is crying, mute them and move on. Play your game. Report them post game if you want. True. The ratio between whining and "toxic" speech is quite heavy to the whining. And I do see the irony in my 'whining' about whiners, I guess the difference is I do it once a year on the boards, vs the every game whining about how this 1 person is responsibly for the loss. Guess by the downvotes nobody cares anyways. Just keep the circlejerk on how *these people need to be banned* posts all over these boards and reddit. Like banning fixes behaviour. Like the behaviour is wrong to begin with. Its a game, and everyone wants to ruin another persons time(whether is inting or 'punishers'). You can't get rid of frustration. You can't channel 100% of frustration into productiveness. Just streamline the ability to get into your next game. I seem to remember a lot of fun 4v5, 4v4, and 3v4 games back in Season 2 before internet was decent. Maybe do some shit to make those types of games playable for all 9 people involved? That way your not 'ruining' their time when you get sick and tired of playing. Ok, last one, but probably important. Expecting people to focus on the 'good' of playing out a game, vs them deciding to end their own misery. Sounds very unrealistic. We play this game in our time off. I see people hardly try at their job when they hate it, and you expect someone to go give it their all when they are on time off and miserable playing? Regardless of if you do it, why would you support making a system like that? Imagine someone having a bad week, and they log in. We are potentially going to ban this person if, having a bad week, they do anything other than exhibit exemplary summoners code in the game. "People don't get banned for single outbursts". Regardless, I don't think too many(maybe a couple) log into this game just to cause misery; they want to have fun. Getting stomped in lane is not fun. Not only is it bad to play, your teammates very quickly turn on you, and continue to type for the rest of the match any time something goes wrong. And you know what? I think the only the at fault is that we(the game) force these things into games for as long as we possibly can. Why would you ban someone for doing poorly in lane? Why would you ban somebody for being mad that their teammates aren't carrying their weight? Why would you want to ban somebody who wants to get out of a miserable situation? Maybe you argue degrees of flame. I think frustration is frustration. And r%%%%% becomes cancer, then ape, then monkey, then whatever comes next. You just stop using certain phrases, the flame persists. Being allowed to leave instantly relieves the situation - assuming you have a system in place that can make games good and get people into new games at a quick pace. Edit: LOL, wall of text XD
: Only egotistical people care about imaginary arrows on the internet.
True. I know they like to downvote, so I even edited to make sure I wasn't 'too' harsh. Hence that last question: What did I say that's worth a downvote? Thought there wasn't an issue with how I phrased it and was just providing an opinion, but I had an idea it wouldn't matter.
: Go ahead and get this out of the way, probably got downvoted because you are insulting people who just want to play the game without people breaking the rules. I noticed you said only chat bans and name changes should exist. Guess that means you are okay with trolls and inters. Might contribute a bit to the downvotes too. The various punishment systems exist as a way to dissuade people from breaking the various rules that exist. We are using a private companies servers and as such they can determine rules. No different than me going to a private establishment irl. I won't comment on SC2, as I didn't play it. As for CoD, I'll provide anecdotal evidence to the contrary. People would complain about being down a player, especially in no respawn modes. Was largely also just "casual" until they introduced "League Play" in BO2 which was "Ranked". Left early and you got locked out of League Play on Probation. Also, it is less a matter of satisfying ego and more of a matter of "Don't fucking queue if you have no intention of actually playing" it isn't like CoD where people can jump out of a game and somebody else fills the slots as the game continues. Once it launches, you are locked in the match with those people. Unless you have an emergency, you should not be leaving. Do we need to full blown ban afkers? Only if they are doing it liek every game. Do we need to ban toxicity? Imo, yes. If League let people spew shit freely like CoD does, I wouldn't play. I'm here to play a game and not be treated like shit just because I did something you disliked. Guess you won't be playing the new Gears game. They are banning frequent leavers for 2 years. That must upset you, even if you don't afk.
> Also, it is less a matter of satisfying ego and more of a matter of "Don't fucking queue if you have no intention of actually playing" it isn't like CoD where people can jump out of a game and somebody else fills the slots as the game continues. Once it launches, you are locked in the match with those people. Unless you have an emergency, you should not be leaving. I think it is a fault of the developers. Games are designed to last 20-40 minutes. It is a game with constantly developing patches. Riot makes Banner of Command absolutely busted, why shouldn't you be able to leave? Riot makes the game super snowbally, why should you continue playing against a 10/0 Riven(or whatever)? Fans at sporting events leave stadiums(and they pay $300+ for tickets) at halftime if the game is a blowout. > Do we need to ban toxicity? Imo, yes. If League let people spew shit freely like CoD does, We have the option to mute chat, mute pings, and mute emotes. Also, league is a competitive game with people. There are plenty of other game genre that won't have you deal with people. Every sport has people that act like asshats. I couldn't imagine having somebody police a badminton game I play for banter, or god forbid I decide I'm done midgame. Imagine I get banned from a chess website because I quit a game. Is it ideal for somebody to quit a game? It about as ideal as somebody soft inting because they can't quit a game. About as bad as somebody typing about how bad their teammates are, and begging for bans in all chat. Every person believes they should go 100% winrate, and the second anything is off(no ganks, somebody dies a couple times, ect), the shit hits the roof. How much easier is life if, a game isn't going your way, you just go next? A teammate is 'being toxic'? "Sucks I got this guy in game, I'll just try another lobby". "My teammate just afked?" "Sucks, I'll try another lobby. Maybe I can make my enemy laner ragequit and get a win." I don't really care about afks. I enjoy lane phase, and can still do my own shit if there is an afk, and just surrender later. I don't care about toxic players, because they are actually quite rare. What I can't stand is the ban criers every damn game. Losing early, "report my jungler". 10 minutes later when we have the lead you get the message from all chat "9x ___". How any of you have fun is beyond me. Just play the game. Who gives a shit about afks or toxics. Compared to the crying, and worse the fear that riot might actually ban you because maybe you actually did get 18 reports in the last 2 games and riot might automate some garbage. Or maybe you try Teemo support middle and Nightblue is upset, so you get a 14 day suspension. Just chill and go next game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Tyson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=774Tk8KJ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-19T17:33:16.807+0000) > > Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and **"egotistical traits".** > > Anything else you want cleared up? Yeah can you clear up how not wanting to lose a match because someone left shows any of these traits? If anything, saying "I'm playing badly so I want to screw over the other 4 people on my team" shows a lack of empathy and antisocial behavior. But i'm not gonna call ragequitters psychopaths because psychopathy is a complicated disorder that I'm not comfortable with throwing around at people over a video game.
I didn't say anything about not want to win, or about the garbage for fun culture. I said it is disgusting that you believe that somebody playing a game should be banned for: a person not wanting to play, or a person not playing the way you want to. > "I'm playing badly so I want to screw over the other 4 people on my team" > What is the worst thing that can happen from toxicity and leavers? Losing the game(ignoring having an account banned, or someone having mental health issues). And what is this worst thing that can happen from losing a game? You Queue up for the next game. "What if my mmr drops?" Does mmr dropping prevent you from queuing? The only hit you can take is to ego. Am I wrong in this analysis? You say screwing a person over. How are you screwing someone over? Your ego about your artificial rank being lower than you believe it to be? Are you actually the only person to ever lose a game due to an afk? Does losing suck? Yes. But you don't beg to ban someone because you lost a game. And I guess since you made the point about empathy. What is worse: 1) someone tilting an quiting a game, and you just que up for another(or quit yourself). 2) Forcing someone who is tilted to continue to play, type angrily in chat, and lose the game anyways? You lose the game in both cases. In the first, it ends and you move on. In the second, you just increase the negativity. And what is the reason for forcing the player to continue to play? A desire to win? Does losing a game remove your desire to win? Does it prevent you from trying again next game? As far as I can tell, nothing good happens in the second case. Let assume you win. Do you want to try and win the next game? Of course you do. The only thing that changes is your lp gains. Which riot just made to track your progress. Its the players who take it to the extreme, talking about being held back and whatnot. What difference does it make if your mmr is 1500 or 1600? Are you playing an entirely new game? Is there less satisfaction in winning? If there is less satisfaction, how can you tell if the mmr system is hidden? I have no idea how you can be sensitive to psychopathy being a complicated disorder, and yet be completely unable to identify with frustration. How do you justify banning somebody from a game?
: Do you even know what psychopath means?
Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and **"egotistical traits".** Anything else you want cleared up?
meowwow7 (NA)
: well from my time playing this on a laptop on it's last leg it would power off alot and the worst punishment i had from afk was a 1 day suspension
My post was about the community, not the banning system....
meowwow7 (NA)
: i ruined 4 other players experience on a round because i didn't want to play with them why am i getting low priority que? {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
I haven't been punished for anything btw. Edit: Haven't left any games either.Edit: Haven't typed anything(maybe baron) either. No toxicity. The only thing tilting me is you guys doing nothing but typing in game.
Mr Tyson (NA)
: League might have the most psychopathic community ever.
Ah, the infamous league board downvotes. "How dare you not be a sheep"! What did I say, that your rank doesn't matter? Did I go against supporting carebear society? What a joke, don't get why I bother posting here, just keep circlejerking. What did I say that's worth a downvote?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: what is extra? the standard punishment for int'ing is a 14 day suspension for the first offense you int'ed you got 14 days off nothing extra here, just a troll getting what he deserves
I got 14 days in April.... It is August 20th.....?
: what is the point of this post? to show the system works as intended?
How so? I got 14 days, why am I receiving extra?
Kei143 (NA)
: You can follow their example. Just dont be surprised about the consequences that we are warning you about.
Vent - give free expression to (a strong emotion). "he had come to vent his rage and despair" synonyms: let out, give vent to, give free rein to, release, pour out, emit, discharge; To put in clear english, I am venting out my frustration at the fact that there is a large flaw in the system which is exploited by people who exhibit bad behaviour in our community. They are allowed to use all the features available because they just make new accounts. I, on the other hand, have done what I was 'supposed' to do, yet cannot do so. And, if I literally just spend a week or 2 leveling(I had 14 days to do so if I wanted to), I could be participating in Clash regardless of changing my behaviour or not. Again, I am venting frustration. Why people latch on to the silliest part of my comment, i don't know. I'm P.O.'d, and using exaggeration. And if it wasn't apparent at first glance, I actually answered one person latching on to the silly part with a repeat that I was in fact, venting....
rujitra (NA)
: If you want to be childish and follow the "example" of those who refuse to change their behavior and just waste more time and money leveling/buying content on other accounts, that's your prerogative I guess.
> If you want to be childish ? > I have 5 months and 200 games of confirmed good behaviour since the ban and cannot participate in clash. I thought I took the Riot approved method, did I not?
rujitra (NA)
: Purchasing a botted account is going to result in that account being banned. If you use that account for clash, you will not be able to play clash on any account (as your phone number will remain locked to the now-banned account). Your account was not destroyed forever. If you are not progressing in honor over 3 months, you are still misbehaving. Many players have returned to honor level 2 in 3 months or less. You should stop thinking of this as a "woe is me I'm being screwed" moment and realize what you've done wrong, accept the consequences, and act like an adult about it.
*Venting - Uber frustrating that I get an extra punishment for not following the example of players with multiple banned accounts.
: > To quote my support ticket: > > Hey there Mr Tyson, > Thanks for writing in to us! I can totally understand where you are coming from here. For sure earning Honor at a slow rate sucks. Unfortunately though, you have to play many hundreds of games after a penalty in order to get back to optimal Honor experience gains. I know that this sucks, but as you keep playing, your Honor experience will level out and you'll be back to earning the maximum amount again. > If you have any other questions, comments, or concerns, please let me know. > Sincerely, > Chocobro > Riot Games Player Support > Sona Main That is interesting. This is the first time I've heard it stated that Honor progression following a punishment is slowed by default. So then, maybe instances of players taking exceptionally long have a mixture of general misbehavior on top of the reduced Honor progress, leading to those odd-some cases of colossal stretches of time where hardly any progress is made. But, that also comes into conflict with some other anecdotal cases, where players have claimed to climb Honor Levels in a matter of months, some even saying that they reach another Checkpoint each week. Granted, those are cases of exceptional behavior post-punishment, but I can't imagine they'd be so fast if Honor progress is reduced by default after a punishment clears. > I'm sure some of the people to who type "9x mid" in all chat report me. However, as I've been playing much better, those instances have decreased, although I am sure they still happen. Well, given that you don't type much, as long as you don't make any argumentative comments in return, their reports - no matter if it's 1x or 9x - do nothing. A report only triggers a review, and if that review finds no punishable behavior - no punishment is given, and the reports are discarded. The only advice I can really give is to always Honor someone post-match (For the Team Honor Bonus), and maybe make the occasional positive bark in chat; "GJ", "WP", etc. - other than that, patience.
Well, it is unlikely that will allow me to participate in Clash. Maybe I will have to dive into the underground and purchase a botted account. Wish I knew my account was destroyed forever 5 months ago, and I could just level a new one. Who would of thought that the people who accept their punishments are the only ones who actually lose out. Everyone with new accounts are allowed to participate in clash. What a great system. *Venting, thanks for your time this evening. Uber frustrating that I get an extra punishment for not following the example of players with multiple banned accounts.
: TIL openly inting = not intending to ruin games.
Do you think I logged in to vent my frustration on some people? I don't pick my teammates. The guy from the get go wanted to be a dick, and I made sure I was a dick back. That is the meaning. It wasn't isolated behaviour, it was instigated, by something I think you would not consider sportsmanlike behaviour. I wasn't thinking about being a good teammate when the team I had decided they wanted to play against me in champ select. The game hadn't even started yet, so all my competitive fire was directed at somebody on my team. ***Regardless, I don't know why this is the part we are discussing. I've had proper behavior for 5 months, and 200 games. Regardless of the justification of that incident, my complaint is that the punishment is continuing, considering I could have created a new account and lvled it in the 14 days I had off. Because I have good behaviour in every other game I played, and how boring leveling is, I decided to sit out and wait it out. If I knew that I would not be allowed to play Clash in 5 months, I would certainly have made a new account since apparently this one is ruined for all time.
: > "Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account." > > Regardless of how you want to define that, the overall severity of a single game instance has been unreal. It's _supposed_ to be unreal. _**You're not supposed to intentionally feed. Intentionally feeding is in and of itself unreal, so "unreal" severity makes sense.**_ You wouldn't like it if someone intentionally fed your games, and you'd almost certainly want to see them banned; the punishment fits. At any rate, as you said, you've already bitten that bullet. > Comparing my first 150 games, with the 39% winrate, to the 200 games of 55% winrate, I get far more honors. I made a support ticket questioning it as well, they said it gets a lower rate of increase. I'm not sure what exactly you mean here. For starters, winrate has no bearing on Honor progression. Beyond that, you're not being particularly clear about what you're saying anyhow - what do you mean by Support said "it gets a lower rate of increase"? And, on top of that, you didn't answer the questions I posed in my initial response.
I include the winrate to signify that I am individually playing very well, so I get lots of honors for that, I get many honors than before and I earned more checkpoints in 150 and than the 250 games I've played since. To quote my support ticket: Hey there Mr Tyson, Thanks for writing in to us! I can totally understand where you are coming from here. For sure earning Honor at a slow rate sucks. Unfortunately though, you have to play many hundreds of games after a penalty in order to get back to optimal Honor experience gains. I know that this sucks, but as you keep playing, your Honor experience will level out and you'll be back to earning the maximum amount again. If you have any other questions, comments, or concerns, please let me know. Sincerely, Chocobro Riot Games Player Support Sona Main And, for the other questions. I do not type much, I try to win games. I'm sure some of the people to who type "9x mid" in all chat report me. However, as I've been playing much better, those instances have decreased, although I am sure they still happen. My overall behaviour hasn't changed much from my previous 7 years. I play to try and win. In 1 game, some douche 'on my team' was being an asshole actively trying to make me preform worse, and I returned the favor by being a douche back. I did not think I would get 14 days, and w/e, can't do much about that. The fact that I have 7 years clean, and 5 months and 250 games since the incidence, is the complaint. Especially when you consider people have been perma banned, but just open up a new account and level with their toxic friends, can participate in Clash. I have 5 months and 200 games of confirmed good behaviour since the ban and cannot participate in clash.
: GJ, you ruined a game for the other 3 people while making yourself worse than the person who banned your champ, got a totally deserved punishment, and too bad!
In March, and clean behaviour since....... Edit - and wtf? I try to win every game. I had someone in champ literally say 'screw you teammate', and I gave it back to him. I won't justify the nunu, I ate the punishment. However, in the grand scheme of things, his behaviour was actively antagonizing of teammates and noncondusive for winning. My behaviour was attacking his attitude, not intentionally ruining games. Did it ruin a game? Yes. I was banned for 14 days because of that. But I never intentionally went out of my to try and screw with my teammates and try not to win, which is what the other individual did. Just to be clear.
: > A guy purposely banned my champ, so I gave him a nunu game. If you want any sympathy, any at all, for trolling, griefing, or intentionally feeding, then you've come to the wrong place. > For a single game, since 2012, I receive a 14 day ban. You received the proper punishment for intentional feeding. Your slow honor progression is your fault, and your fault alone.
> If you want any sympathy, any at all, for trolling, griefing, or intentionally feeding, then you've come to the wrong place. Apparently. I had 1 game in 7 years, and I am scum. Imagine if I just soft inted, rather than be up front about it.
: > A guy purposely banned my champ, so I gave him a nunu game. > > For a single game, since 2012, I receive a 14 day ban. Seemed a bit harsh, but Riot rules(would like to know where it says first time offense is 14 days, but w/e, I ate my punishment). I'm going to guess by "Nunu game", you mean "Nunu w/ *Ghost* + *Cleanse*, running it down mid"? Intentionally feeding is taken seriously, and consequently is punished harshly. There are only four punishment tiers, and you can't really punish intentionally feeding with a chat restriction, so that leaves the 14-day ban, followed by a permanent ban. Here's a [Support Article](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-) with some general info about the punishment tiers. > After 3 months of slow climbing honor and about 200 games, I am at Honor 1, checkpoint one. Because of this, I cannot participate in Clash. > > Neat.... Here are a few questions to consider; 1) Have you been Honoring other players and receiving the Team Honor Bonus? 2) Have you been showing positive behavior across your games? 3) Have you been Honored frequently? 4) Have you shown negative behavior in some of your games? 'Cause, the behavior you exhibit and whether or not you Honor other players does generally factor into your Honor progress.
"Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account." Regardless of how you want to define that, the overall severity of a single game instance has been unreal. Comparing my first 150 games, with the 39% winrate, to the 200 games of 55% winrate, I get far more honors. I made a support ticket questioning it as well, they said it gets a lower rate of increase.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Slower and longer paced games
Balance is busted at the moment. Players aren't equal skill, so a lot of lop-sided lanes happen. Back in season 4, a laner being 3/0 was a GG. Now its a race against the enemy of who can get fed faster. You might be 3/0, but bot lane is 8/1, good luck. Riot needs to do something to separate players more. IDK how, but its pretty unreal.
: how its possible i never win aram games xD
: Vel'Koz is stronger in midlane or support
Support isn't good. Vel'Koz support does lots of damage, which is good if your team isn't capable of carrying. It might save a game. But if you have a good adc, having a support that can amplify him is better, while you do even more damage from mid lane with additional resources. Unless you have utility midlaner, its better to have a useful support. VelKoz does what he does, its what your team is missing out on.
JRobin31 (NA)
: Except that when players increase in skill in chess the effect is that games become closer and end in more draws. I don't know if you payed any attention to the most recent World Chess Championship between Magnus Carlson and Fabiano Caruana, but it's case in point. So while it may be true that skilled players snowball mistakes harder, skilled players also make fewer mistakes that can be snowballed. This means that RIOT's changes have had the effect of counteracting the natural effects of increased skill in the game... which actually surprises me. I did not expect the statistics to support that theory.
You are correct in Chess. A couple differences in chess: 1. Both players use the same pieces. League has unique champions on each side. 2. Chess has perfect vision. League has fog of war. Players can do interesting things, and you aren't fully aware its happening like chess. 3. Chess rules of the pieces have been consistent for over 100 years. Pawns have never been buffed to move more than they currently do. Matchups are changing because the balance of League is dynamic. Your points on chess are correct though. The players are not making incorrect decisions, and advantages aren't being gained. If that did happen in league, it would be similar to s7 championship, where both teams go to 6 items and have 1 major team fight to decide the game.
HeeroTX (NA)
: My OPINION, is that the current design leads to a bad game state, but that's just my personal opinion on the matter. What I'm trying to say with the original post is that it ALSO makes games feel "unfair" or radically uneven simply because the mechanics allow for one team to snowball out of control even at the highest level. People "feel" like the game is fair if you have a relatively even game, if you feel like you have as much chance of winning at minute 30 as you had at minute 1. (just to be realistic, let's say you have a window of maybe as much as 5 minutes at the end where you know the game is over it just takes that long to actually enact the finishing touches) I'm saying in a LARGE number of games, the game is basically over (due to enemy being able to snowball) really early AND the result of that is it FEELS like the game was badly matched in champ select (due to unbalanced player selection), but the fact may be that it was perfectly balanced at game start, but 1 or 2 mistakes put 1 or 2 players ahead and the game is deemed irrecoverable and AFTER the fact everyone thinks the player that made the mistakes sucks or was "boosted" or put on my team to "screw" me, but instead the enemy (who is of equal skill) was just able to snowball HARD due to game mechanics. Again, just to add my OPINION, I think it's bad design for someone to be able to snowball THAT hard and that easily in a team based **strategy** game. (I say that largely because my "default" mindset is a defensive one, it's why I like LATE game champs, but I rarely get to benefit from that because early game champs can snowball too easily)
Amen to that. Matchmaking does seem broken. Some people don't fall in rank no matter how badly they play. Its not really the design of the game though, naturally, players are trying to win. They want to figure out the best way to win. They want the best runes, the best champs, and play the best macro. Both teams tend to 'agree' on a meta and play similarly. When the equilibrium breaks, the losing team can't do much. If there was something that the losing team could do, why wouldn't the winning team do it? And because they are winning, they have the higher chance of success. Teams also try to figure out whats the best thing to do once you have the advantage. As time goes on, and we figure out what gives bigger advantages, the snowball that occurs after an advantage will increase as time goes on.
: What To Do After Taking First Tower
A couple of options: 1. If you take first turret, rotate for dragon, or call jungle/bot lane for rift herald. If they are taken, swap lanes. Duo goes middle, mid goes top, you go bot. If the duo stays bot, farm under turret and let the 2v1 mid take the turret or call for a rotation to the bot lane and take bot turret. If top swaps to bottom, just take that turret and move on to option 2 or 3. 2. If your team overall is doing well, clear waves quickly and move around the map looking for skirmishes. Pick off champs, then try for turret damage/dive for more kills. 3. If team is struggling, and no drag/rift/baron to fight for, go for extended freeze. Team is struggling, so by roaming you will not necessarily get advantages. By freezing, you can deny resources. If the top laner roams, just ignore. You team might lose out, but they will be sharing exp/gold, while you scale up. End the freeze when a neutral objective comes up and fight for it. Evaluate after the fight - if the fight goes poorly, freeze again and deny the enemy resources and hope your team can catch up on gold/exp. If you win the fight, follow option 2. You freeze when you aren't confident you can get advantages by grouping. Less people around minion waves gives increased exp, so you team will technically get stronger by you not being there. If your team ints while you aren't there, they would likely int if you were there anyways. Freezes are strongest earlier in the game. As champions level up, they get more health and it becomes easier to dive. And as games extend, objectives become more available. A freeze at 15 minutes is much better than a freeze at 25 minutes. 15 minutes, adc has 1 item, vs 25 minutes, adc has 2. Adc will do more damage to turrets. *Freezing is complicated at the macro level, so a long explanation. Unless you are playing a 4-1 champion like Jax or Fiora, at some point you want to group. That said, 3 lanes of resources>2 lanes of resources. If you can deny the enemy a lane for 4 minutes, you team wins out big. The delicate balance is not giving up too much(drags, towers, baron) while denying a lane. GL
: How would the game change if True Damage ceased to exist?
True Damage ignores Armor and MR, so the counter is to build health. Sadly, Fiora and Vayne do %health true damage, which means they do more true damage when you build health, which is a little weird.
: I love League, I played it for 10 years. But you make me want to quit.
Tanks need to play respectful now. I remember playing Maokai in S4 and surviving for 10 seconds in a 1v5. You are right, tanks can pop. You need to think more about how you do your job. It was a similar issue I had last year with Akali mains complaining about their champion being nerfed, specifically Q healing. They said it was a bad change because Akali couldn't trade. She is a melee assassin, that had the ability to evenly trade with mages, while also being able to assassinate. The simple thing is assassins don't trade, and players should stop doing that and play her like an assassin. After those changes, players are now playing the champ properly and she is quite strong without her q heal. If you think tanks are weak, watch supports with no items proc aftershock - literally undamagable for 3 seconds. Use the windows that exist. Just as tanks should be able to tank, others should have counter opportunities to kill tanks if they misplay.
PiVoRx (EUNE)
: So you got 1 cc removal each 90 sec (that also requires to purchase an item) when averange cd of a cc ability is around 6-8 sec and usualy there are multiple of them. Its just not worth to get qss/mercurial right now unless it becomes a morgana shield..
Pro players have no issue using QSS to escape from Chain CC's. Its proper positioning.
HeeroTX (NA)
: Playoffs is the top half of the league in terms of skill, you're talking 6 teams (aka literally just 30 players total). A disparity where one team is basically unable to take even a single turret shouldn't happen at that level in roughly 25% of your games. If you want to say the disparity between #1 and #10 (and you're still talking theoretically the top 50 players in the game) is such that #1 consistently smashes #10, then... ok I guess? But last spring had TWO games in the **semifinals** where the loser didn't take a single turret. And what I'm saying, is that if you're mid-low elo, with a bunch of randos on your team, you're gonna blame all of them for sucking when even at the highest level it's REALLY easy for a game to snowball out of control like that.
Its not necessarily about that. Jayce is a lane dominant champion. Teams can put large amounts of resources top lane, get kills/plate/deny exp and get big advantages. If the other team misplays around top, or fails to get an advantage in another part of the map, then there is a large discrepancy. One team is very far ahead and the other team got nothing during that time. That is how games can snowball uncontrollably. Its not that one team is less skilled than the other, its that one got advantages where the other didn't. And because they are skilled, they can choke them out of the game with little fallback for the other team. Think of a game of chess. You have 2 good players. They can have a game where each one takes pieces from the other and eventually one player gets an advantage and closes out the game. In another game, one player blunders early , and the other gets a strong advantage. At that point, the game just might be over, not because he is unskilled, but because one player has a strong advantage and knows how to close out the game. As players get better in skill, it becomes easier to close out games from advantages.
PiVoRx (EUNE)
: 1 qss wont protect from that shitload ammount of cc we got right now
You're not supposed to be immune to every champ in the game. Champions can side step abilities, or have abilities(like Camille Ult) that allow you to dodge abilities. If you get hit with CC, cleanse, and don't react to the next CC, you are not playing correctly. You shouldn't be able to right click a champion, go to the bathroom, and expect to have won the battle when you return. You have to position correctly and take advantage of the map and champion cooldowns. The game gives you a full cleanse, its up to you to use it correctly, and play correctly.
Divin1ty (EUW)
: Yi builds certain Tank Items too. He doesn't have to go full DMG and the tradeoff for not being CCed is very worth sacrificing Damage. Also, Tanks don't get cced (except Janna Tornados vs Ornn R), since they are there to soak up exactly that. If you waste your Cooldowns on them, the rest of the Team will massacre you.
A counter example for today was Afreeca vs SKT game 1. Sejuani was constantly picked off by Skarner Ult and blown up. There are a multitude of opportunities to focus tanks. But you are correct if teammates can follow up. I still don't see how Yi fits the example when theory crafting tank items? I think Sion CCing the back line while having CC immunity is far scarier than a YI sacrificing his guinsuos for a tank item.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Tyson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NkEHXEIj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-03T17:22:22.194+0000) > > He is still popular in high elo. I watched Nemesis play him on stream, he does a bunch of damage. I think he is just under appreciated. Reworked Urgot was ignored for a year, and out of nowhere started to define the meta. Karma is the current champ doing this. > > Also, Akali just had her shroud perma invisiblity removed finally. Showmaker(LCK player) just popped off recently with her. Despite all the nerfs, players are still improving with the champion. > > Ryze is in an ok place, people are just jumping ship to Corki or other flavour of the month picks. urgot also got a very large buff to his W
Karma too got a minor buff. Both champ however were nerfed, yet remained defining the meta. Sometimes things don't immediately take over the meta. No player played Ryze in S5, then Faker showed how broken he was, despite not one other player being capable of playing him. He wasn't weak prior to Faker picking him up. People just didn't understand his strength.
HeeroTX (NA)
: Statistics showing why the game/matchmaking #feelsbad
A key contributing factor is the skill increase of players. When a team has a gold lead, high skill teams won't allow the enemy back into the game whatsoever. That is Towers/Dragons/Barons. As one team gets an objective, that makes it even more difficult for the enemy to take an objective. Advantages snowball into further advantages. Strategy games tend to operate like this.
HeeroTX (NA)
: Statistics showing why the game/matchmaking #feelsbad
S5 was the juggernaut patch. One of worst in history, best was Season 4. FYI :)
: Renekton
I think that is just a mechanic you have to play around. Like waiting the time on Camille Q for the true damage proc. I personally like a little skill expression.
Theorex (NA)
: Since the removal of the shields on Ryze.
He is still popular in high elo. I watched Nemesis play him on stream, he does a bunch of damage. I think he is just under appreciated. Reworked Urgot was ignored for a year, and out of nowhere started to define the meta. Karma is the current champ doing this. Also, Akali just had her shroud perma invisiblity removed finally. Showmaker(LCK player) just popped off recently with her. Despite all the nerfs, players are still improving with the champion. Ryze is in an ok place, people are just jumping ship to Corki or other flavour of the month picks.
Divin1ty (EUW)
: Because an unstoppable Yi, Darius with Ghost, Garen etc. is fun to play against. Wait, no.
Would Yi be scary if he built full Tank though? I think OP is talking about tanks being immune, not carries or bruisers. After all, its 100% CC reduction he is talking about. With Merc Treads and runes, any champ can hit 50% currently.
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Mr Tyson

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