: *cough* riot lawsuit for gender-based discrimination *cough*
That´s not the point and it also shouldn´t become the point.
AIIan (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=MrFluffyPuffy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Omyvt8YG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:46:15.481+0000) > > I think visuals are way easier to notice then audios (except the audio is way louder than the average sound). Actually you're demonstrably wrong - it's well documented that humans react faster to audio stimuli rather than visual. With a significiant margin too - 25% faster ? 30% ? I can't be arsed to search for the exact datas myself...
> [{quoted}](name=AIIan,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Omyvt8YG,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-01-18T10:12:31.007+0000) > > Actually you're demonstrably wrong - it's well documented that humans react faster to audio stimuli rather than visual. With a significiant margin too - 25% faster ? 30% ? I can't be arsed to search for the exact datas myself... Easier to notice in a sense like "I actually noticed it while focusing on something else". At least for me it´s way easier to catch a visual stimulus than an auditive one (they can tend to go under between all other stimuli, most people hearing music when playing doesn´t help either). % is negligible here. Like how much are 25% or 30%, if we speak about miliseconds. If such small figures aren´t negligible then the difference between the speed of light and speed of sound might be not negligible as well.
Dolasaur (NA)
: If you had said "I, and possibly some of the community, would appreciate it if you would back up what you said by affirming you don't support how DZK communicated on Twitter concerning the PAX panel", that would be a good faith attempt to address what concerns you. Instead, you chose to use words whose direct effect, in context, was to demean someone. (The spoiler tag, sarcasm, and later acknowledgement that the issue under discussion is dead make it hard for me to believe you intended Meddler to see them as constructive criticism.)
>Instead, you chose to use words whose direct effect, in context, was to demean someone. (The spoiler tag, sarcasm, and later acknowledgement that the issue under discussion is dead make it hard for me to believe you intended Meddler to see them as constructive criticism.) I didn´t choose any words which demeaned others. I admit the spoiler tag and the sarcasm wasn´t nice, but in the same context it´s not nice to be called out by a Rioter (it´s right that Meddler called him out on his name but it wasn´t necessary, the report tool isn´t only open to normal board users but also to Rioters, if he wanted to really address the issue it would have been way better to make a post and pin it to the boards than calling out one user in this post where most people might miss it). And again the issue might be dead but it never was solved. >If you had said "I, and possibly some of the community, would appreciate it if you would back up what you said by affirming you don't support how DZK communicated on Twitter concerning the PAX panel", that would be a good faith attempt to address what concerns you. Perhaps it would have been a good faith attempt, but I´m sorry that I have emotions like other people as well and that when I read hypocrisy my first thought isn´t how can I ask someone without hurting his/her feeling. Despite that I think Meddler is (also for a design director/grown up should be) able to deal with the comment. And if he really wanted to distance himself from the retweet and the unnecessary insults, especially to support his statement, then he could have still done it (but he decided not to (at least yet)). Which probably would have stopped this whole discussion from unnecessarily blowing up like that. On a side note I like how you and others try to "frame" me. Trying to imply a picture from me in which I look unnecessarily bad/evil. Some examples: "You're perpetuating the "You're either with me or against me", where you damn people for choosing to take the middle ground, to not involve themselves." I never tried to perpetuate such a thought neither do I damn people for choosing a middle ground. There is sadly no inbetween being a hypocrite or not. And if I would try to perpetuate it and damn people for something, I wouldn´t bring up another point of view (that he wasn´t involved in the issue) which defends him. "It more amused me personally that you said you agreed with his message about not directly attacking people almost immediately after directly attacking him." I didn´t attack him. Sarcasm isn´t nice but it isn´t the same as attacking. "I get the idea of wanting a public denouncement, but that's about as denouncing as it gets." No, I don´t want DZK to be denounced. It´s possible to distance yourself from something/apologize for bad behaviour without calling his names. "Instead, you chose to use words whose direct effect, in context, was to demean someone." No none of my words were demeaning others, even in context. Like I mentioned above he could have easily "defuse" my comment (when it really was so dangerous ,to begin with, like others wanna let it look like to appear). " You are desperately trying to merge the two...." If I´m so desperate in trying to force something, then why are you so desperate in making a mountain out of a molehill? You decide to make a drama out of a comment and it´s somehow strange that I´m not allowed to bring counter arguments without me suddenly being desperate. **So I wanna ask you: Did you reply in good faith to me? (Hint: No you didn´t. If you wanna lie to yourself and if you want I can show you where.) So why do you expect me to do something which you yourself can´t do?**
: Brah.... why u riding this? Just beacuse a single rioter said something somewhere.... it doesn automaticly means Meddler has to jump on twitter and say hey its not okay. With that logic we could say that every single rioter should do that. LOL. All he did is if you have a bad name on the boards they simply (like fire someone) wont answer to your question... or talk to you al all doesnt matter the topic... To me that feels like really really turtle-ing and kinda being ignorant... lets say something srsly fcks up and they refuse to answer beacuse of a name seems a bit childish to me. Riot is very well known for having really toxic employees... it is not a secret... there are many examples for rioters being fired for such actions. However this comment is totally off topic of that and has nothing to do with that situation at all. You are desperately trying to merge the two.... but pepole simply not taking it LOL... sry your clouth chase is over here my friend.
>Just beacuse a single rioter said something somewhere.... it doesn automaticly means Meddler has to jump on twitter and say hey its not okay. With that logic we could say that every single rioter should do that. LOL. Again it doesn´t mean that he has to jump on twitter and say hey it´s not okay. But if he decides like this then he shouldn´t write sentences like this "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however." in the future. It´s called hypocrisy. >All he did is if you have a bad name on the boards they simply (like fire someone) wont answer to your question... or talk to you al all doesnt matter the topic... Again that´s not the point. It´s good that he addresses the issue. But he could do it without being a hypocrite. >To me that feels like really really turtle-ing and kinda being ignorant... lets say something srsly fcks up and they refuse to answer beacuse of a name seems a bit childish to me. Riot is very well known for having really toxic employees... it is not a secret... there are many examples for rioters being fired for such actions. I don´t understand what you want to say with this. >However this comment is totally off topic of that and has nothing to do with that situation at all. You are desperately trying to merge the two.... but pepole simply not taking it LOL... sry your clouth chase is over here my friend. The comment wasn´t offtopic. I quoted him and gave an opinion (part of the opinion was to point out the hypocrisy). I´m not desperately trying to merge the two. I was explaining what my comment was about to N07Y0urN4m3 since he asked. And people decided to get offended by it and start discussing it into oblivion. Is it my fault that people can´t take a comment which points out the hypocrisy and then need to start discussing with lackluster arguments like "You're bringing up a really dead issue here." or try to accuse me of something (I get the idea of wanting a public denouncement, but that's about as denouncing as it gets./You are desperately trying to merge the two....)? If people want to start a discussion out of a cynical comment then it´s their desicion to do so.
: He posted off of Fire Blaustoise's comment, because it is representative of the type of actions that don't promote discussion. He's not taking Fire Blaustoise as a person, and saying that he's a bad person for doing so. He's highlighting what the end result of actions like those result in. That they're not going to engage in that post. In no way, has he made an explicit notion against Fire Blaustoise, he talks in end results, and what said actions result in. He did not call him out, directly. Choosing not to involve yourself in a vicious flame war on Twitter does not make you a hypocrite when you want to address a similar issue, 6 months after the fact. Meddler's comment is about direct, "X person" attacks, which is not what Daniel Klein's Jet turbine comment was, it never mentioned a single name. Even mods see an active difference between calling out for the general balance team to be fired, and asking for a specific named person to be fired. *Directly* is the key word here. All you're doing is dragging up dirt from a dead issue, for no meaningful reason at all. You're just doing it to drag back up the fact that no one did anything back then.
>He posted off of Fire Blaustoise's comment, because it is representative of the type of actions that don't promote discussion. He's not taking Fire Blaustoise as a person, and saying that he's a bad person for doing so. He's highlighting what the end result of actions like those result in. That they're not going to engage in that post. In no way, has he made an explicit notion against Fire Blaustoise, he talks in end results, and what said actions result in. He did not call him out, directly. By commenting to "Fire Blaustoise" he is automatically calling him out directly. But there is nothing wrong with that if it´s true for what "Fire Blaustoise" get called out (and someone only needs to look at the name to see it´s true). Offtopic: Mods exist to delete threads/comments asking for Rioters to be fired. And there should be a report option to report names as well. But that isn´t topic at all. I never defended "Fire Blaustoise" to begin with. >Choosing not to involve yourself in a vicious flame war on Twitter does not make you a hypocrite when you want to address a similar issue, 6 months after the fact. Meddler's comment is about direct, "X person" attacks, which is not what Daniel Klein's Jet turbine comment was, it never mentioned a single name. Even mods see an active difference between calling out for the general balance team to be fired, and asking for a specific named person to be fired. Directly is the key word here. He never need to involve himself in a flame war. It´s possible to distance yourself from specific actions while not participating or calling out people. It would have been enough if he stated that he is not okay with retweeting tweets which "play down"/ask others to suicide and harassing other people (he could have done it as a side note in his quick gameplay notes at the time, or on his twitter -> yes it perhaps would have drawn more attention to the problem but almost everyone who follows him on twitter or visits those quick gameplay notes would have already known it since boards and reddit were full with it). Single persons have it harder to defend themselves than groups (but just because someone has it easier to defend him-/herself doesn´t make it less nasty). You could say that asking a group to suicide is worse than asking a single person to be fired. You could also say that asking a single person to be fired is worse than insulting a group of people. But nonetheless none of those above is okay. Besides that DZK did attack a single person directly (not as bad as asking someone to be fired though). >All you're doing is dragging up dirt from a dead issue, for no meaningful reason at all. You're just doing it to drag back up the fact that no one did anything back then. The only reason I´m able to drag it up **is because Riot did close to nothing at the time** (there was/were only one/two Rioter/-s who distanced themselves from DZK behaviour (they neither attacked him nor drew more attention to it ). And if it´s not meaningful for you to call hypocrisy out then it´s okay. But then others could say that asking somebody to be fired isn´t meaningful at all (which isn´t true). Just because something isn´t meaningful for you doesn´t mean it can´t be meaningful to others.
Dolasaur (NA)
: It's not your job or responsibility to post here. You're doing it out of free will. Nothing wrong with that. Same should apply to Meddler's rebuke, no? You're free to call him a hypocrite. It more amused me personally that you said you agreed with his message about not directly attacking people almost immediately after directly attacking him. (At least, a great deal shorter than 6 months.)
>It more amused me personally that you said you agreed with his message about not directly attacking people almost immediately after directly attacking him. (At least, a great deal shorter than 6 months.) Calling out hypocrisy where it exists isn´t the same as attacking the people. Otherwise you could say to everyone that they attack someone by addressing a problem because they made the person in question feel uncomfortable. **If I solely wanted to attack Meddler I would have skipped**: "For Meddler´s part. **He wasn´t really involved in the whole problem** (if I remember correctly). But again if I remember correctly, said nothing about it (basically ignoring DZK retweeting tweets which promotes suicid). He could have at least distanced himself from the whole issue and written that retweeting such things is unacceptable.". Since it actually defends Meddler in some parts (he wasn´t really involved in the whole issue). >Same should apply to Meddler's rebuke, no?" I thought we already discussed it. Meddler is free in addressing problems on the boards. But if he does so and writes a line like this "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however.", then he should also expect people to call out the hypocrisy in it.
: > [{quoted}](name=MrFluffyPuffy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9VFBIdGE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T17:45:04.511+0000) > > You confuse pay2win with cash grab. Pay2win is buying gameplay advantages. > > https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cash%20grab > 1) A scheme by companies to make poorly made product just for the purpose of making money. > 2) Referring to an expensive but poorly made product. > (And yes I know the goal, behind most products, is to make money. But there is a difference between cash grabs and most other products.) > > > Selling +1000hp for real money isn´t a cash grab. Yet it´s pay2win and the company being greedy. > Selling a low quality chroma labeled as a high quality skin for 100+$/€ is a cash grab. Yet it isn´t pay2win. The problem with 'poorly made products' in LoL skins is that they probably won't sell. That's why I link it to pay2win. Btw, I'd also classify selling game bonuses as a pay to win strategy. It's more often than not you pay gate your game behind long wait times unless you pay money and such. Turns take longer and you buy upgrades to speed up the game and it FEELS fun finally. If people find it an equitable trade, that's on them, and as a producer, Riot has done their job. Then it's just your opinion that it's a cash grab because YOU don't like it. Riot has to convince you to trade your $$$ for their products. Now here's the rub. Some people are calling it a 'cash grab'. Who cares? If you don't find it an equitable trade, do not buy it. If someone else finds it equitable, that's their choice. Now let's take it to League of Legends. Putting out 'poorly made products' runs the risk of not paying for itself. Are there enough people who buy skins just because it's for XYZ champion? I doubt it. I don't know the size of the team on any individual skins, but I'm given to understand it takes months so it can easily cost 6 digits to produce a skin. Where it differs from like a movie sequel being inferior quality, it's easier to trick people into spending money to see a crap movie since you see small parts of the movie in trailers. Riot has a much harder time tricking you into a poor product. There's PBE. There's skin spotlights. People see it's inferior quality way before and will be way more informed about the product before it's available for purchase.
> [{quoted}](name=Hethalean,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9VFBIdGE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T18:14:56.432+0000) > > The problem with 'poorly made products' in LoL skins is that they probably won't sell. That's why I link it to pay2win. Btw, I'd also classify selling game bonuses as a pay to win strategy. It's more often than not you pay gate your game behind long wait times unless you pay money and such. Turns take longer and you buy upgrades to speed up the game and it FEELS fun finally. > >** If people find it an equitable trade, that's on them, and as a producer, Riot has done their job. Then it's just your opinion that it's a cash grab because YOU don't like it.** > > Riot has to convince you to trade your $$$ for their products. Now here's the rub. Some people are calling it a 'cash grab'. Who cares? If you don't find it an equitable trade, do not buy it. If someone else finds it equitable, that's their choice. > > Now let's take it to League of Legends. Putting out 'poorly made products' runs the risk of not paying for itself. Are there enough people who buy skins just because it's for XYZ champion? I doubt it. I don't know the size of the team on any individual skins, but I'm given to understand it takes months so it can easily cost 6 digits to produce a skin. > > Where it differs from like a movie sequel being inferior quality, **it's easier to trick people into spending money to see a crap movie since you see small parts of the movie in trailers.** Riot has a much harder time tricking you into a poor product. There's PBE. There's skin spotlights. People see it's inferior quality way before and will be way more informed about the product before it's available for purchase. But then the term cash grab wouldn´t exist because there are almost for everything people who find it an equitable trade. For example Star Wars The Last Jedi, most would call the movie a cash grab because it uses cheap/stupid jokes (Luke milking an alien and drinking it´s juice), throws away characters who where build up in the previous movie (Snoke for example), has some for the story unimportant plot, etc.. The movie basically exists for milking the star wars franchise. Yet it´s not a cash grab because many people find it equitable while star wars fans dislike it. "it's easier to trick people into spending money to see a crap movie since you see small parts of the movie in trailers." A movie is still a cash grab even after 10 years (it should be possible to read critics and a summary/ get a general feeling how good the movie is after 10 years ->like the original sw trilogy is pretty good, while the prequels are pretty bad).
: No, it being a dead topic means you're just dragging up something that's been done, finished, for what point? "Oh he's being a hypocrite", when you yourself say "For Meddler´s part. He wasn´t really involved in the whole problem". Yeah, it isn't Meddler's problem. It isn't his job, nor responsibility to call out others wrong behaviors. You're perpetuating the "You're either with me or against me", where you damn people for choosing to take the middle ground, to not involve themselves. Meddler, and every other single employee at Riot, do not have any obligation to speak up on an issue that they do not want to involve themselves in, especially online, on Twitter. That does not make them a hypocrite, when they choose to address an issue **6 months later**, an issue that's not politically charged and is a prevalent issue on the boards. They have no responsibility whatsoever, to damn whatever you want them to damn. Get over yourself.
They don´t have the obligation to distance themselves from the whole issue. Yet if they decide not to (if Riot as a whole hasn´t apologized for it) then that makes them hypocrites when they write lines like this "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however.". Yes, he has no obligations to distance himself from the topic. But he also doesn´t have the obligation to address boards specific issues nor doesn´t have the obligation to write "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however." which makes him look like a hypocrite because he has chosen to ignore an issue in which someone associated with them was attacking other people. And if they didn´t want people bringing the issue up even 6 months after it happened then they should have chosen to apologize/distance themselves (Riot as a whole) for the unnecessary suicide retweet and the unnecessary insults, which would have put an end to it. Edit# >Yeah, it isn't Meddler's problem.** It isn't his job, nor responsibility to call out others wrong behaviors.** You're perpetuating the "You're either with me or against me", where you damn people for choosing to take the middle ground, to not involve themselves. You even said it yourself it´s not his job to call out others wrong behaviour. So why did he call out "Fire Blaustoise"? It´s not his job to do so. **I´m not perpetuating "You're either with me or against me". I called him a hypocrite because there is no middle ground between being a hypocrite and being no hypocrite. If I would perpetuate "You're either with me or against me", I would have never said that I agree with him (which I have done 2 times). He is right in addressing the issue of people calling for Rioters to be fired, but if he chooses to write "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however." then it´s my freedom to call out the hypocrisy in it.**
: I'll never understand the whole "oh this is just a cash grab" arguments. They're cosmetic. You don't have to buy them to play the game. A cash grab would be like "Buy this ticket, and you get +30 Adaptive Force runes instead of +10 Adaptive Force runes for 3 games." or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Hethalean,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9VFBIdGE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-12T15:25:46.511+0000) > > I'll never understand the whole "oh this is just a cash grab" arguments. They're cosmetic. You don't have to buy them to play the game. A cash grab would be like "Buy this ticket, and you get +30 Adaptive Force runes instead of +10 Adaptive Force runes for 3 games." or something. You confuse pay2win with cash grab. Pay2win is buying gameplay advantages. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cash%20grab 1) A scheme by companies to make poorly made product just for the purpose of making money. 2) Referring to an expensive but poorly made product. (And yes I know the goal, behind most products, is to make money. But there is a difference between cash grabs and most other products.) Selling +1000hp for real money isn´t a cash grab. Yet it´s pay2win and the company being greedy. Selling a low quality chroma labeled as a high quality skin for 100+$/€ is a cash grab. Yet it isn´t pay2win.
: How about a help option for the deaf?
I think visuals are way easier to notice then audios (except the audio is way louder than the average sound). So how about a deaf mode (if it´s intended for inattentive players to miss the audio)? All sounds are basically muted (includes voice chat-> your mates are muted but you can still talk to them) and important audios get displayed in a visual form (for example a small circle with the champ´s face and his/her quote, in a speech bubble, appear on the upper left side).
: Dude causing problems got fired. I get the idea of wanting a public denouncement, but that's about as denouncing as it gets.
An official apology for bad behaviour isn´t the same as a public denouncement. They wouldn´t even need to mention DZK in the apology.
: You're bringing up a really dead issue here.
It being a dead topic doesn´t automatically make the point wrong or right. And Meddler is pretty much a hypocrite for writing "Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however." considering he ignored a colleague attacking people. Well you could say that he only followed instructions from others to be silent about this, yet it makes him not less of a hypocrite for saying that he doesn´t want to ignore or endorse attacking other people.
: Wait what happened? please fill me up.
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/JeoGRXbm-quick-gameplay-thoughts-january-16?comment=00090000000100010000
: Who what now? What did I miss?
Daniel Z. Klein was a Rioter (worked on Taliyah, Tahm, Lucian, Azir and shortly before the incident on Nexus Blitz). **Edit# Link doesn´t work but you can find a picture if you google "daniel z klein men only league panel"** (It`s basically telling those, whose it´s directed at, to kill themselves/don´t know if the tweet or retweet is deleted by now) https://twitter.com/danielzklein/status/1035723265350586368?lang=de (You need to read through it, I first wanted to quote some unnecessary insults from his tweets, but mods would probably moderate it anyway.) I just quote this because it´s somewhere hidden in the discussion: He replied to someone with "f+ck off go sea lion somewhere else"(to a comment which wasn´t rude or anything like that). He was later fired for violations against their social media policies or something like this (basically their pr department told them not to say anything about the situation and not to interact with people, before the whole situation happened). But as I remember Riot never really excused for the retweet in which he supports people to kill themselves. Nor for the unnecessary insults. Also there was a leak of a chat room in which you could see other Rioter´s agreeing with him. **Everything happened around late august/early september.** **** For Meddler´s part. He wasn´t really involved in the whole problem (if I remember correctly). But again if I remember correctly, said nothing about it (basically **ignoring** DZK retweeting tweets which promotes suicid). He could have at least distanced himself from the whole issue and written that retweeting such things is unacceptable. **Edit#2 That´s why I find it quite ironic what he wrote (I still agree with him though but I couldn´t resist in poiting out the hypocrisy).** **** I´m kinda disappointed that there was and probably still is sexism at Riot. But also that they decided to blame us players for it, even though it was an internal problem, and then proceed with excluding men from a paid event (they could have organized new special events for women instead of suddenly excluding a group of people from Riot´s room at pax but I assume that would have cost more money and wouldn´t have been worth it from Riot´s point of view). **** Probably last edit# Sorry for heavy editing, just tried to make it better readable at some points (probably made it worse though)
Meddler (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=JeoGRXbm,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-01-16T16:42:26.070+0000) > > not enough evidence ??? just look at pro if high elo games don't convince you (if we are talking about Viktop). > > Im more surprised you have no plan to nerf {{item:3135}} &{{item:3285}} So, I debated whether to bring this up the other day. Decided today it was worth talking about though. If someone's going to attack other Rioters, call for them to be fired etc (as per your account name in this case) I'm not going to engage with their posts. They may or may not have some valid points to make. I believe we should be trying to build a better quality of conversation than that sort of attack though. Would still expect and be onboard with a lot of debate, disagreement, criticism of our decisions etc of course. Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however. If your goal by doing so is to draw attention to particular issues all it's doing is making it harder to have conversations about them.
>Directly attacking people's something I don't want to ignore or encourage however. I completely agree with this. > ### *It´s way easier to ignore a colleague retweeting jokes about suicide and harassing larger groups of people.*
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mKFauMhA,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-08-05T18:48:59.962+0000) > > Is ORNN by chance a dragon? Or is he just a really huge humanoid. Not a dragon.
Then I need to ask: Is he by any chance an unicorn?
Reav3 (NA)
: I have yet to see anyone of the boards accurately guess who Ornns siblings are ;)
Let me take few guesses: Option 1: He is a celestial being and his siblings are other celestial beings like Bard, Soraka or Aurelion Sol (I don´t mean that he is related with every other celestial being (which still could be possible) but that he might be with some few). That´s based on what Sharjo told us about him (Freljordians **think** he is a god and him being very large and powerful. Option 2: He is some kind of Freljordian spirit and is a sibling of Anivia (again because he is quite powerful). (unlikely and I don´t believe in this option). Option 3: His siblings aren´t in the game now. Neither as a champion nor mentioned in the item/map (for example Doran who made the starting items or a shopkeeper on a map) lore. (lame option and again I don´t really believe in this option) *** Now to other theories. I somehow think that Ornn crafted the runes and not only runes, he crafted almost everything (landscapes etc.). And he probably had something to do with Brand (Brand was in a cave covered with runes).
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: First off I really like the theme going on here. I think that the splitting in two makes no sense though and also conflicts with kindreds lore a little bit. I also dont like any of the abilities, however I really like the dream state idea. What if instead its passive was that when it is out of combat it enters the dream state being visible but invoulnerable. Make this guy a sort of mini game type champion like bard who collects dreams that (wander) around the map. Dreams give him a power of some sort.
Thanks for your feedback. > I think that the splitting in two makes no sense though and also conflicts with kindreds lore a little bit. I kinda thought that it could be interesting that Som Num is a counterpart of Nocturne (but that´s not the reason I came up with the champion idea). But I didn´t really want to hint at or mention it in the main body (while I believed few might guess it from the dream theme/ splitted into two/ good <->evil), because most dislike or hate it if someone tries to connect his concept with already existing champs (I can understand the reasons for that though/ wouldn´t like it either if someone would badly integrate Vel´Koz/Taliyah or Jhin in their story). Also I don´t think it conflicts with Kindred since they are some kind of twin ghost which together exists as Kindred. They are never really divided but dying beings choose for themselves which ghost they are facing. But in contrast to Kindred, Som Num was once another being, which body and soul got corrupted and, in case of the soul, divided. Som Num got reborn as a seperated new being with no or almost non existent link to its counter part (except the common background). > I also dont like any of the abilities, however I really like the dream state idea. Can´t change much on this one (except exploring more ideas but that will take its time). ^^ But I mostly like to explore themes (sometimes maybe just funny abilites/mechanics), as an example I made a concept for a ghost light based champ, which passive creates ghost lights near him or all over the map. > What if instead its passive was that when it is out of combat it enters the dream state being visible but invoulnerable. Make this guy a sort of mini game type champion like bard who collects dreams that (wander) around the map. I don´t think that giving him invulnerability out of combat will be a good idea. It makes him less interactive and it rewards playing as passively as possible and it also can be frustrating to play against (if you chase him and catch up to him just one moment after he got his passive up). I also don´t believe a passive to collect something around the map would be a good idea or would fit to him. His passive is lackluster but Som Num needs it for the rest of its kit. He is supposed to go in with either Q or E (depending what should/can be used), then cc as much enemies as possible with his W, and then disengage with Q or E (depending what´s up and can be used). He needs the shield of the passive to not burst like a balloon before/while casting W.
Rioter Comments
: Yes he can as long as they don't heal above 25% hp ult is global range and even if they get healed while in the ult by some random reason it still kills
Great, there is no escape of the almighty Urgod. Gonna use this while standing there and spamming taunt. Need to get lvl 7 with Urgod so I can spam mastery emote while ulting someone out of base. :^)
Rioter Comments
: I think not. If you are building against heavy crituser you go randuins or if you go against no critusers you go thormail and against only ad you build both ;^p. Ofcourse there will be one that is generally better in standard situations but in niche situations one wil be better . Im not saying that cold steel needs to stay but dont think it will be that much of a passive. I do love that it only aplies grivious wounds when you basic attack him so it will be great against addraintankers but still wont be usefull against vlad or mundo or soraka or something.
> I do love that it only aplies grivious wounds when you basic attack him so it will be great against addraintankers but still wont be usefull against vlad or mundo or soraka or something. It is useful against Mundo, because his kit depends also on autoattacks (E for example) and that would apply grievous wounds on him. So basically he mustn´t autoattack others if he want to use his Ult or Passive. It has the smallest impact on Vlad, but it´s still stupid not being allowed to autoattack without losing the ability to heal yourself up again. But like I mentioned it has probably the least impact on him. It could heavily impact Soraka (still less than ADCs/etc). You don´t have control over your teammates and your heals would be reduced on allies who attack someone with Thornmail. Additional the same situation like Vlad, you give up on additional damage (even if it´s not that great) for self heal (Q). Also it hurts champions/playstyles which are based on draintanking from autoattacks -> Xin and Aatrox are such examples.
Vershac (EUNE)
: Spirit Gem+ {{champion:57}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
Yeah, it´s active has a pretty bad design because it could give champs like Mao or Mundo much power or just make them annoying to play against. Ironically it´s also a hardcounter against those champs. Tried to limit the power through a long cooldown and a not too long duration (even if 5 seconds are still pretty long) + only 10% effectiveness + low range. The main part should have been the lifesteal/spell vamp reduction but without the active it would seem like the item is missing something. Though I saw today that Thornmail will be updated, but Spirit Gem still could be a good other option if you already have much armor or you need something agains spell vamp.
Rioter Comments
: pretty sure they patched that out
It´s still possible in trainingsmode, but you need like 5 minutes to get a high enough value of hp to reach negative values. As it seems towers sometimes won´t attack you with negative life.
: 2 weeks later we get a vandril video showing garen with negative hp value cuz spaghetti code
Actually, you can achieve that by spamming gargoyle stoneplate near 3 dummies in training mode. Also you can one shot everything if you do it as Tahm Kench.
Rioter Comments
: Applies a mark that can be consumed to do damage? There's a reason that old Q was removed from LB
Thought about current LB and not the old one. But I rather think that it got removed because they transferred it to her passive. Otherwise it would have been weird if she marks units with her current passive and her old q to get a huge delayed burst. So it´s transferred and reworked to her current passive. Also Liss would have to work harder to get the reward. Old LB could mark you and then jump on you, but Liss would need to land a normal attack and then hit you with her spell without hitting any other unit. You can hide behind minions so she won´t get the effect (maybe I didn´t made this clear enough that also unmarked units can block the effect if they got hit first).
: I think much of the hesitation to change her passive (even though it feels underwhelming) is that she's in a pretty good spot at the moment, and changing things up could easily make her OP. That's not to say I wouldn't want them to change it.
Can understand that. Like Kassa didn´t got changed much in the past because of the fear of him being op again (I believe). But they still can test changes with their team. If it succeeds first and they are confident with them, then they could go with them to the live servers. If necessary they can still revert those changes. Otherwise it´s also a question of time/ etc. If they already had a change and it got scrapped, they probably don´t want to waste more time on her or they don´t have any other good ideas for her at the moment. Though it would be nice to hear what exactly happened to those changes (wasn´t much on the boards after I saw a thread about her, so I could have missed a comment from a Rioter who told more about what happened).
: Sounds too much like {{champion:7}} Q
In which way does it sound like her Q? Pls explain because I don´t see any way how the passive and LB´s Q are similar (LB´s passive sounds more similar but it´s still executed in different ways). Despite this it´s ok if some champs have similar abilities as long as it fits to the thematic of the champion and doesn´t feel like a ripp off (for example: Sion and Kled R; Kled and Yasuo E; Morgana and Lux Q).
: I don't like this change, I'd much prefer a better version of her Current passive that rewards her for Crowd controlling enemies. Maybe have her regain some health and Mana as opposed to just saving a spellcast cost. Whatever it is, it really should just be a sustain tool imo. Lissandra already has an AoE snare AND a single target stun. Giving her another Hard CC on top of that would be overkill imo.
I don´t think most sustain passives are a good thing. They are sometimes necessary but should be avoided if possible (especially if it´s only a mana sustain passives). Because of two problems: 1. Interactivity/Noticeability 2. Balance Problems You can partially solve the first problem through giving the passive a condition, visual effects and a big reward. But I think sustain passives don´t feel impactful enough until the reward is realy big. Balance problems could occur if the passive has a bad concept. Lissandra for example has high mana costs on her spells at the beginning because of her passive. This feels more like a burden than a reward if you don´t use it regularly. *** I also think it could be to much cc for her. But the passive has 2 conditions which are important, she needs to use her E to stun the enemy and only the first enemy which got hit will also get stunned. Ingame it gives you and your opponent room to play around. Enemies can hide behind minions, can defend themselves while you autoattack them for your passive, you can choose between more damage or more utility and try to actively get the reward.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I've been using boards for roughly 2 years and still can't figure this stuff out. Doesn't work half the time regardless.
https://giphy.com/gifs/dinkleberg-los-padrinos-magicos-the-fairy-oddparents-UgoqHvx73apws/embed
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonderhamz,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=as41Zkp4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-04-05T19:44:06.726+0000) > > It makes for really confusing gameplay. I can see this on paper, but what about reality? IMO it would be worth a try, that's the kind of stuff you could test on the PBE after all. Doesn't even need to be a full on skin, you could begin testing it with a different model alone.
> that's the kind of stuff you could test on the PBE after all No, it isn´t. First, the community will see the skin on pbe and will be disappointed if they remove it (that´s why almost only content get to the pbe which will be implemented into the game -> except a few skins/ champs <- really old champion concepts which got cancelled; not actually sure if they went on pbe). Second, it will be a waste of money if they work on this idea to just realize in the last second that this doesn´t work. That´s another reason why content on the pbe mostly goes live.
Zacster (NA)
: She fights for the cause. He fights for her.
Those two comments (from 6Sfool and MuffledGarbage) above/below me represent both parts of the community just perfect.
: > All champions can interact with it but it´s weaker on those which already have Mana sustain (gonna adjust this so that all champs can use its full potential). Other items which have such a balance are Frozen Mallet,Hextech Gunblade,Death's Dance. Frozen Mallet has a weaker slow if you are range, Gunblade and Death´s Dance have a weaker healing effect on aoe damage. Which results that they are weaker for some champs due to their range or type of ability (single target or healing). Youre forgetting both Hydras and Guinsoo. But the point is that all the items youve stated are made to inhibit for range and aoe. When it comes too resourse-related items ({{item:3165}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3010}} , there are no items in the game that interact this way. The only reason an item should be weaker on toehr champions is due to aoe or range. Having an item weaker on lets say LIssandra just because of her meek passive is just bad
> The only reason an item should be weaker on toehr champions is due to aoe or range. Having an item weaker on lets say LIssandra just because of her meek passive is just bad {{item:3083}} it is stronger on champ which can either stack health or have a high base hp. Because they are able to use the passive faster than other champs. And Yes, HP is a resource.
: I do not like the idea of having boot enchants give damage They should stay as a utility only thing
Can understand your point, but I like it more if they give different effects. Also them giving only utility would probably result that the one with the strongest utility would get bought.
: Sorry i was rushing so wasnt very clear. While the old enchantments are pretty awesome (love Furor) none of them did any damage nor had cd. It sounds fun on paper but would be pretty confusing during late game, when most enchantments are bought. The items, like i said, are a bit too complex. Nobody likes reading a whole paragraph for a single item. I singled out Heralds Scepter since its just weird that certain champions cant interact with it due to their abilities. A champions abilities should never inhibit what they wish to buy, besides the AP/AD scalings
> The items, like i said, are a bit too complex. Nobody likes reading a whole paragraph for a single item. I think the reasons why those items are looking to complex are because a) on a concept you try to give as much as possible information of those items, so that as much as possible questions get answered. Not all informations would stand ingame like how much gold the enemy get for destroying the Hextech Tower Boost or how much damage it exactly does. b) maybe I´m also unable to write it shorter and easier to understand. Besides that I still think that only Warmog´s Ruby is way to complex. > I singled out Heralds Scepter since its just weird that certain champions cant interact with it due to their abilities. All champions can interact with it but it´s weaker on those which already have Mana sustain (gonna adjust this so that all champs can use its full potential). Other items which have such a balance are Frozen Mallet,Hextech Gunblade,Death's Dance. Frozen Mallet has a weaker slow if you are range, Gunblade and Death´s Dance have a weaker healing effect on aoe damage. Which results that they are weaker for some champs due to their range or type of ability (single target or healing).
FilDaFunk (EUW)
: Support Boots that have control ward spaces, help with clearing wards.
I don´t think that would be a solution because it would be a must buy for almost everyone which isn´t the point of an item. The only solution for this would be an extra slot only for control wards/ wards.
Ryuyah (NA)
: {{champion:16}} + aura of the ancients + {{item:3107}} shes back bois
Items can be adjusted any time + she gives another item up for aura of the ancients. :`)
: Boots are kinda a mess tbh. Enchantments were supposed to give small boosts, not effective stats with cd. The cd just makes it confusing invisible power items. The items ahve the same problem. Waay too complex to. Like why does Herald Scepter single out chmpions with passive mana? no other mana regen items do
> Boots are kinda a mess tbh. Enchantments were supposed to give small boosts, not effective stats with cd. The cd just makes it confusing invisible power items. You are probably right with the mess thing and the cd. But the old enchantments also gave effective boosts. The cd is for preventing it to become to overbearing over time. Could adjust it and make the effect smaller so that no cd is needed and it´s less confusing. > The items ahve the same problem. Waay too complex to. Like why does Herald Scepter single out chmpions with passive mana? no other mana regen items do > Can adjust Herald Scepter also. But I don´t think this is to complex. I thought Warmog´s Ruby would be the most complex item because of the combination of stats and passive. I don´t think the other items are to complex. Could you tell me which items beside Warmog´s Ruby and your stated case are to complex?
Romik (NA)
: your boot ideas are just terrible, not trying to bm, just try to improve them? Stinky feet is literally singed, ghost is way overpowered because fizz, malzhar and all those champions passives are literally pointless, why would you get Bigfoot if you can just get deadman's? But i do like the marathon one.
> ghost is way overpowered because fizz, malzhar and all those champions passives are literally pointless Malzahar doesn´t has such a passive only Fizz and Kassa I think. And you could argue the same way about phantom dancer. > why would you get Bigfoot if you can just get deadman's I don´t see the connection between deadman´s plate and bigfoot. Bigfoot is some kind of sustained damage for champions with much life that doesn´t give movement speed and deadman´s plate gives you movement speed over time and a little burst on melee attacks if fully charged. > Stinky feet is literally singed Themewise probably, gameplaywise not really. Gameplaywise it´s like sunfire which you need to stack to be useful. At least I try to give those enchantments a more distinctive pattern than the older ones had. The reason they were removed is that they increased mobility creep without having interesting/important gameplay mechanics to play with (except for Homeguard which got reworked in a past 20 minutes buff for everyone).
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: just sat through 9 lobbies of dodges and autofills
> so I'm gonna try this disco nunu build that I've heard so much about, wish me luck guys Soon in PB&M : BigLincoln: Why did I get a bann?
Raoul (EUW)
: Support, mid, whats the difference, I wont let RIOT put me in one lane, I am playing my own game. I think I will just fill every game, who cares where it puts me. Lanes are for Meta Sheeps.
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MrFluffyPuffy

Level 7 (NA)
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