: YES yuumi gets her mana passive back I love these yuumi changes they're what I wanted thanks riot.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=u5EPZTmn,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-12-10T20:13:53.493+0000) > > YES yuumi gets her mana passive back > > I love these yuumi changes they're what I wanted thanks riot. Gets her mana passive back and her E costs 100 mana at rank 1 lmfao. The mana back on passive doesn't even offset the mana regen we lost on spellthief.
: Tank support item stacks too slow
They stack slower, because they're easier to stack (less risk). Spellthief has a faster stacking potential but you actually have to interact and poke to get it off (more risk). Personally, I've found {{item:3858}} to be extremely good on enchanters against aggro lanes.
: Clash - Great Game mode, not enough Tiers
Clash is the most fun I've had in league in years. That said, we could do with more tiers. My team is in tier 2 and we had a game yesterday against a masters player but that was offset by them having a gold 4 player lol We destroyed them in 15 minutes.
: So how do you win these games ? Can someone tell me ?
In low diamond if something goes wrong early, people just afk. The snowball in this game is absolutely INSANE. You just surrender and go next.
Raoul (EUW)
: is there no more coin option for supports?
IAmToxic77 (EUNE)
: Yall ruined the River King (Tahm Kench)
He needs a rework, but he's prob pretty far down the list.
: Senna's Doesn't Feel Good (Rant)
I mean, all the good supports are annoying to play against.
: Karma buff?
They don't want solo lane karma because she's noninteractive and extremely unfun to play against.
: Is Ivern really unlliked or has he just been an awful weak champion
He just has an extremely small niche of players who would actually enjoy his playstyle. I personally love everything about him, but I'm a support main so that's prob why.
: Honestly when that cancer spin to win, brain dead champion going to get nerfed ?
more than half the roster of viable champs are just champs with some stupid gimmick to abuse that 1 shots you. Garen is just another in a large pool of brainless champs. They do not care.
: These Yuumi changes make her weaker.
You know, i wouldn't even care if they made her weaker if they at least addressed her being too noninteractive. But with these changes, my reward for changing who I'm attached to is lower than it currently is WHILE being way more risky. These changes just make her a steroid for whoever she is on and she has even less reason to swap around now, like what's the point?
Profirix (NA)
: I like it. She will have higher impact but significantly more risk. Someone also said she can no longer TP with allies, which I think is a bit too much to lose.
> [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVuAgecb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-02T23:37:24.510+0000) > > I like it. She will have higher impact but significantly more risk. Someone also said she can no longer TP with allies, which I think is a bit too much to lose. She will have higher impact in teamfigthing/skirmishes while attach-swapping LESS. This is literally the opposite solution to the problem of her being noninteractive. I only have 1 charge on heal now but it heals more and gives an attack speed buff. Boy, guess who im going to afk on? yeah anyone who does well with attack speed, so most likely my ADC. There's less reason to jump around because the odds that I die are higher AND the rewards are lower because I can't spread my heal around (the purposes of having charges in teh first place) while also being punished for applying attack speed buff to a target who isn't going to use it fully.This AFK and forget mentality is only furthered by her W scaling being buffed. I'm literally just an AFK steroid on whoever is fed on my team. Makes her even more of a gimmick than she already was. And on top of all that, her lane phase got even worse lmao I might also add that with the right runes + chalice, the odds of me going oom are low in teamfights, so there's no reason to detach. The mana regen on passive being added back doesn't even offset the mana regen lost on spellthief. The shield has always been nice, but without instant attach, a lot of that power disappears.
: Question......Why is Lee Sin in every game?
buffed for worlds coupled with being able to kill drake at level 3 safely
Aamano (NA)
: Why are you getting rid of Yummi teleport?
Why are they nerfing yumi* might be the better question They're making it so you have even less reason to unattach (good for solo queue players who afkd anyway) and making the rewards for swapping targets very minuscule while adding massive risks (a pro play nerf) Scrap it and start over already.
iiGazeii (NA)
: You don't understand what you're looking at, do you? Her AP scalings have gone down. She won't do as much damage lategame with these changes. However, the base damage of her Q is the same or slightly better at early ranks and the adaptive force granted by her W has gone up significantly, meaning her Q will be dealing overall more damage early on. Even better, her TEAMMATE will be doing way more damage early on. The changes to her heal make it much more valuable. Each E will do more than double the healing early on, with way better level and AP scaling. The attack speed stim makes it even more potent in the early game, giving an ADC a huge damage boost. The devs are doing exactly what Yuumi needs. They're taking power out of her being untargetable and her scaling damage, and putting that power into her early game and utility. She will be more supportive than ever, providing massive heals, movement speed, and an attack speed steroid to her teammates. In exchange, she actually needs to expose herself more often to regain mana, since her spells are more expensive. A full enchanter build will be incredibly potent on the new Yuumi.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZpQZVku,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-02T23:48:07.154+0000) > > You don't understand what you're looking at, do you? > > Her AP scalings have gone down. She won't do as much damage lategame with these changes. However, the base damage of her Q is the same or slightly better at early ranks and the adaptive force granted by her W has gone up significantly, meaning her Q will be dealing overall more damage early on. Even better, her TEAMMATE will be doing way more damage early on. > > The changes to her heal make it much more valuable. Each E will do more than double the healing early on, with way better level and AP scaling. The attack speed stim makes it even more potent in the early game, giving an ADC a huge damage boost. > > The devs are doing exactly what Yuumi needs. They're taking power out of her being untargetable and her scaling damage, and putting that power into her early game and utility. She will be more supportive than ever, providing massive heals, movement speed, and an attack speed steroid to her teammates. In exchange, she actually needs to expose herself more often to regain mana, since her spells are more expensive. > > A full enchanter build will be incredibly potent on the new Yuumi. 1. You level W last, which means at rank one you're giving your adc roughly 12 extra AD compared to the current 4(?), which is an overall buff of 8 AD EARLY GAME. By the time you get items and start ranking up W it'll be midgame, where this IS A BUFF (if you read, I said theyre buffing scaling). That buff comes at the cost of *A harder to hit Q (seriously, 2 seconds? It takes a second minimum to get from the back of my minion wave to the back of theirs which leaves me with 1 second to turn it) A 100 MANA COST HEAL ON A 12 SECOND CD lmao A channel time added to W Can't TP with teammate anymore (prob for the best but still a nerf) 2. The E is not a boost to anyone's laning phase at a whopping 100 mana cost. The attack speed buff on E only makes sense as a midgame/teamfighting buff not as a laning buff. The heal will still be used primarily to sustain through the laning phase, as it is currently used for, and with no charges and the added risk of swapping targets (channel time + the cooldown added if CCd) It just encourages me to afk on a target (which is currently a huge complaint of why she is so uninteractive). Also with only 1 charge, outpout from chalice is overall lower. 3. No they're not. These changes make it MORE LIKELY that i stay attached to single targets longer because I can't spread my heal anymore. And with E giving attack speed, I'm even FURTHER incentivized to sit on 1 person (my ADC in most cases) and that is incentivized even FURTHER by adding more nerfs to her ability to swap to other players. More risk for swapping, lower reward =/= me swapping more. 4. The passive buff, mainly the mana regen, have to be there to offset the ridiculous cost of her E. So I'm not rewarded for playing risky and detaching to get an auto off for the mana/shield I HAVE to unless I want to go oom after 1 heal. And this ONLY applies to the laning phase (a further nerf) because with the right runes and chalice I have infinite mana in any other stage of the game. Also we lost mana regen on spellthief and this doesn't even offset that. 5. Her build will remain the same. Chalice, Ludens, mejas. You previously didn't even build ardent on her, and you certainly won't now that hte overall output will be lower due to how AS scales and only having 1 charge. My suspicion is that Riot knows people aren't going to build ardent so they just added the item to her E, essentially. The shield has always been nice, but without instant attach a lot of that power dissipates. Overall, I'm even more of a gimmick by just being a steroid for a single player in a teamfight. And for that I lost laning power (which was already awful) and now I I can preform BETTER by swapping attachments LESS in a phase of the game where I was already decent. gg
eye nut (NA)
: Anyone think that Senna is actually op instead of experiencing the new champion effect?
as a support she seems fine, as long as leona and naut are allowed to exist in their current state. As an adc she's def overpowered. Way too safe, way too much utility for how hard she scales.
Rioter Comments
: Is senna too strong, underwhelming, or just right?
Support seems balanced as long as Leona/Naut are allowed in their current states. Everything else seems out of line, especially adc. Scales way too hard
: Senna's been out for almost a month now and she still hasn't even seen the slightest balance change.
seems balanced as a support as long as naut/leona are as OP as they currently are. However, ADC seems broken. Not sure how you nerf the ADC part without nerfing the support aspect. Maybe her scaling? since support senna prob isn't getting more than 2 items.
: I got auto filled Jungle 2 games in a row
Why would anyone want to play a role where if you miss the first couple dragons you're fucked? Oops I didn't kill anyone on my first gank, guess i lose my jungle camps and stay 2 levels behind the whole game. Jungle is THE most important role while also being the most frustrating/unrewarding.
: At this point roles dont even feel relevant.
Just pick something with a stupid gimmick you can abuse and go nuts. The game feels like a mobile port now. Way too much CC which really wouldn't be a problem if getting hit by ANYTHING didn't one shot you.
GankLord (NA)
: I agree with you but see then that pisses me off. Why push the champion into a role they were not initially designed for just because you knew you made something wrong on release. It irks me so much when this happens. Now you're going to push them into something subpar instead of letting them live up to their full potential.
> [{quoted}](name=GankLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JIAt2ebi,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-30T17:29:42.954+0000) > > I agree with you but see then that pisses me off. Why push the champion into a role they were not initially designed for just because you knew you made something wrong on release. It irks me so much when this happens. Now you're going to push them into something subpar instead of letting them live up to their full potential. She *was* initially designed as a flex champion for support or adc. They said if that becomes too hard to balance they would forget the ADC aspect and focus on her being a support. Sadly, there's no way to nerf the ADC/solo lane aspect of her without directly hitting the support side of her (where she currently sits at 51% wr). I rather her be a competitive support than a subpar at 2 roles.
Kalienor (EUW)
: Having to manage your mana instead of mindlessly spamming for 10 minutes like your blue bar means nothing is an improvement for me. When mana isn't a problem, the only thing mattering is if you hit with your spells and nothing else. If you have to manage your mana, not only you have to hit like before, but you also have to adapt the frequency of use to keep some ressources for later. This 2-dimensional approach deepens the gameplay, mechanical aspect isn't king anymore and you have to think of a strategy to break the opponent by other means than sheer pressure.
> [{quoted}](name=Kalienor,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKGy9vht,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-11-30T08:57:26.672+0000) > > Having to manage your mana instead of mindlessly spamming for 10 minutes like your blue bar means nothing is an improvement for me. > > When mana isn't a problem, the only thing mattering is if you hit with your spells and nothing else. If you have to manage your mana, not only you have to hit like before, but you also have to adapt the frequency of use to keep some ressources for later. This 2-dimensional approach deepens the gameplay, mechanical aspect isn't king anymore and you have to think of a strategy to break the opponent by other means than sheer pressure. You realize a good sized amount of supports mana regen base is balanced around the fact that they will take spellthief, right? This is why the tank supports don't have mana problems, because it's expected they aren't going to take (old) spellthief. Which just widens the gap between the broken engage supports and everyone else. Also, without mana regen, spellthief doesn't really offer all that much. Which is why the meta is just taking relic shield on every support, because it's far less risky to use its gold gen aspect.
: Supports right now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Say it with me, not having mana regen on spellthief feels like dog shit
: Can Yuumi fucking BURN IN A FIRE ALREADY
The counterplay is that she's at a 34% winrate and it only goes down the higher your elo gets. Literally any meta support shits on her because if your adc gets grabbed/hook you get grabbed hook and there's no way your peeling them off you or your adc. She's trash tier. Lowest winrate in the entire game.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: I did https://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=NTrumpWeTrust You have 3 ranked games ever, less than 15 normals. Since closed beta, eh?
> [{quoted}](name=ZaFishbone,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ffdZvAZ,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T08:49:26.727+0000) > > I did > https://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=NTrumpWeTrust > > You have 3 ranked games ever, less than 15 normals. Since closed beta, eh? lmao this is my 4th account, try again.
: Senna NEEDS to be given a HARSH choice. DAMAGE or UTILITY.
Riot learned nothing from Pyke. Support-carry hybrids make sense ONLY if they're locked into support. But they aren't. If the only thing keeping a champion from popping off is a steady income of gold (like pyke) then you simply run them in a different role where your income is higher. Riot said they would try and balance her for both but if it came down to it they would balance her around being a support. Looks like we've already hit that point
: So uhhh... Is Elder Dragon fair?
: THE Hidden OP Broken Support
It's not hidden, at all lmao everyone knows
: Preseason thoughts so far:
As a support I just absolutely hate ocean drake. It creates WAY too many important additional ward sports that I can't possibly cover alone. It makes tanky supports even more essential because if there's a random assassin waiting in one of the extra 700 bushes somewhere I won't be immediately one shot. Support item changes feel like crap. No mana regen on spellthief feels like trash until you can get idol/chalice, heavily nerfed gold income when you finish your ward item also feels terrible. Why am I punished for completing the item path? Alcoves are cool though I'd look into how vision works if being attacked from the middle part of the alcove, seems a little wonky. Having 3 bushes instead of 2 really adds a new layer of vision control that is more dynamic, so I'm all for it.
: This is statistically one of the highest win rates ever seen on a new champion. Shes overperforming in a meta that shouldn't be favoring her. Its very clearly overtuned why on earth are people defending this.
> [{quoted}](name=i4got2pull0ut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GoAkMA7P,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T00:08:41.355+0000) > > This is statistically one of the highest win rates ever seen on a new champion. Shes overperforming in a meta that shouldn't be favoring her. Its very clearly overtuned why on earth are people defending this. Except she's in a meta that favors her. She can actually deal damage to the top tanks right now and has sufficient peel for the 1 shot meta. Is she overtuned? Yup. She has to be to compete with the other overtuned supports like Naut/Leona who become invincible level 3. I'm all for nerfing her, if we also nerf the others. I'm not sure where this argument of "she's preforming well in a meta she shouldn't be preforming well in" came from. If she's doing well in the current meta, then she is "supposed" to be preforming well in that meta. It's like saying Morgana shouldn't be preforming in this meta because she's not doing what the other engage supports are doing. She's meta precisely because she counters the meta, just like Senna.
: 650 base damage with a 200% bAD scaling point and click ult is perfectly fair and balanced /s
> [{quoted}](name=Pendergast891,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HGMW8Wvd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-24T20:20:04.979+0000) > > 650 base damage with a 200% bAD scaling point and click ult is perfectly fair and balanced /s don't forget it's also a stun :)
: Time to stop pretending Senna is balanced?
Only if we stop pretending that naut/leona aren't OP. Senna is one of the few supports who can actually punish these broken engage supports. Remove Senna from being a viable option to counter this trash no-skill-land-a-random-hook-to-win-lane-phase-and/or-game support meta and we're left with the same support meta for another year, no thanks.
: Can we make Zyra more into a mid laner please
Can we stop moving decent supports out of the role? Seriously the bot lane is already extremely stale, we don't need to lose anymore supports. Besides, she's one of the VERY few (the other being Senna) supports who can actually punish the OP supports in lane if they don't engage properly. There's no reason you can't play her mid if you want to. What exactly would make her a mid laner? Her waveclear is good, her poke is good, mana costs are low.
: alcoves
Considering the lanes have been largely the same for some years, I would give people a bit to adjust to using alcoves. It adds a lot more flexibility in the bot lane, I've used them to make quite a few plays. Can't complain, seems to only add to the experience
: People troll picking and not trying in Ranked is worse than ever.
Yes, welcome to pre season. There's no reason to care, it literally does not matter lol
: Aphelios has the potential to be worse than Akali, Ryze, and Azir combined
Not sure the logic behind champions like this. He will be so complicated that he will either A. Be overpowered when played properly which is a problem in pro play or B. Not worth the trouble of learning because the pay off isn't high enough compared to just playing any other ADC So what's the point?
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: Yeah, I think that, as an ARAM player, you probably have no idea how playing SR 5v5 feels. Once you main one or just a few champs, you start to understand how playing this game is a lot more complex than just gimmicks.
> [{quoted}](name=ZaFishbone,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ffdZvAZ,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-26T09:32:46.388+0000) > > Yeah, I think that, as an ARAM player, you probably have no idea how playing SR 5v5 feels. Once you main one or just a few champs, you start to understand how playing this game is a lot more complex than just gimmicks. ?? I been playing this game since closed beta lmao check yourself
: Are We Really Going To Start Another Season Without Addressing Damage Creep?
Idk about ya'll but I personally like getting soloed by an unkillable Leona level 3 with ignite
: zyra has been a support for over 4 years
because people can't figure out that if you hook her she's dead
: Relic shield is objectively better than Spell Thiefs
A simple fix would be to give mana regen back on spellthief so there's actually a reason to pick it
: Yuumi's laning phase is awfully weak, even more so after support item changes
she already had mana problems before she got chalice now it's just abysmal. She's sitting at the lowest winrate in the game and has been there for awhile. Riot said theyre "looking at her" but let's be real, unless they nerf all the top supports, it's not going to matter.
: Playing supp feels like ass
The question remains, why would I ever play anything but the engage supports?
JPlayah (NA)
: New support items are literally institutionalized poverty
This isn't rocket science, just remove the gold cap on support items, aka how it was before. This change is so stupid and feels awful. Change for hte sake of change
: Can we please just skip the part where we have broken support items for another 2 years?
I rather them fix the issue of how broken hook supports are. In a game with so much damage, a random hook, with close to 0 risk, can you win you the lane/game while you're also nearly unkillable thanks to aftershock and overtuned base stats. Nerfing every single engage supports seems highly unlikely, so I don't see this problem going away. This wasn't so much an issue in the past because getting hooked/grabbed wasn't always certain death, but now there's just way too much damage in the game.
: i feel like all of the people commenting in favor of the support item changes arent support players
The problem is that it's a nerf, but the nerf affects a subclass of supports that was already struggling, mostly due to the mana regen removal on spellthief. All the OP engage supports have maintained their winrates because they didn't really lose anything, and let's be real, being unkillable with aftershock and the ability to win lane/game by throwing out a random hook/grab is still busted as all fuck. The only reason Senna is doing well is because she's overtuned (so are the other top supports in terms of raw stats namely leona/naut) and she can actually punish the melee supports in lane unlike the enchanters.
: The amount of unbalanced matches is pathetic
It's just a game of gimmicks now. Honestly feels like a mobile game
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 22
Are we just going to go another season with engage supports being overly dominant? Are you guys really okay with how tanky Naut/Leona are with just their Ws? Enchanters feel awful in this meta because they can't feasibly peel off any of the engage supports (except maybe thresh) and it feels even worse after the mana regen removal on spellthief.
: Lux VFX Update
lulu next, please
: So much damage and CC it's not even fun to play assassins..
So much damage and CC it's not even fun to play** there fixed it for ya
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NTrumpWeTrust

Level 55 (NA)
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