Mogarl (NA)
: Xerath can kill the Marksman through the frontline. Zoe can't. Lux can kill the Marksman through the frontline. Zoe can't. Morgana is not an artillery mage. You're just glueing her in here because she's your prefered champ and you dislike Zoe. Although your comparison still falls flat since Zoe can't perma CC you after landing a single bubble. Morgana can ult you after a Q and many champions can't get away even with flash because of the large tether range and slow. Leblanc has an entire near point and click rotation that could 100 - 0 someone which led to her being dumpstered (she's still a pain to deal with though). Zoe is all skillshots that are encouraged to be from long distances. Ziggs has a fuck ton of zoning in his kit, decent safety, and (you guessed it) AOE. Zoe is pretty disgusting on paper (and probably in game as well though she's been pretty perma banned), but saying she is 100% the best mage is a silly claim.
Few champions have longer range than Morgana, and she has better AP ratios than Xerath. She's an artillery mage, you're just not used to thinking of her that way because you really have no experience with her. And in order for Morg to chain R from Q, her target can't have any tenacity and she has to begin the sequence in melee range... yeahhhh.... You may as well say that her opponent is literally afk and isn't one of the 3/4ths of champions with a dash, flash or CC of their own of any kind whatsoever and who also can't insta-pop Morg especially while in melee range. Absolute horseshit. It betrays your agenda that you would argue about LeBlanc as she used to be three years ago. She isn't like that. She just can't do anything anymore. Go look at her winrate stats, I dare you. Ziggs is outclassed by Zoe in every way. He isn't safe at all because he has only Satchel to escape with and that's so unreliable I haven't yet seen even a mastery 7 Ziggs player actually get away using it. If you think Lux and Xerath can do something that triple-flash Zoe can't do in order to reach the "backlines", you are flat out delusional. Flat. Out. Delusional. Not least because this is not a PvE strategy game. There is no "front line" and "back line". Your target could be anywhere - the only reason we care about long range in this game is because anyone within auto-attack distance of an adc is going to be deleted in less than a second.
Mogarl (NA)
: Tbf "I'm not a fan of Zoe's design, and I think there are some serious issues with bringing back nuclear spearheads." doesn't mean I only think the spear is a problem, but this thread is about Zoe as a siege mage in comparison to Xerath as a siege mage. Zoe can only hit one person per cast with her two standard offensive spells and her passive. Xerath can hit multiple people with two of his standard offensive spells and his ultimate. His E can only hit one person, and that's the only damaging thing in his kit that is like that. Zoe is pretty disgusting on paper (and probably in game as well though she's been pretty perma banned), but saying she is 100% a better artillery mage than Xerath is a silly claim.
Claiming that you need to do area damage to be a good mage is a silly claim. There's really only one target on the enemy team that anyone should be killing right now: the adc. No one else even fucking matters in this current meta. Zoe is safer and just better than Xerath, full stop. She's arguably better than Lux in many situations, but not all, and that's only because of Lux's 20s cooldown ult. I won't even legitimize Morgana by making a comparison except to say that if Morg were deleted two years ago, no one would have noticed except me because I played Morg for five years. Zoe is also better than LeBlanc by a **HUGE** margin. They shat down LB's throat with that passive, and here comes Zoe with *her* passive... and it's literally an order of magnitude more powerful. Then we compare Zoe to Ziggs... Look at the damage on Zigg's Q and then compare it to the scaling on Paddleball. If you don't vomit immediately, you need to see a doctor. This.... this is just getting out of hand. No wonder the playerbase has been dwindling so dramatically lately.
Mogarl (NA)
: I'm not a fan of Zoe's design, and I think there are some serious issues with bringing back nuclear spearheads. That said, Xerath has a ton of aoe whereas Zoe is single target. There's a higher chance of Zoe putting Nidalee out of a job than putting Xerath out of one.
Did you forget about Zoe borrowing spare summoner spells and having a powerful hard-CC with essentially unlimited duration? I mean... have you **LOOKED** at the duration of her sleep compared to Morgana's Root? Morg's Q lasts only a single second less... *and can't be placed as a trap, doesn't refund its own cooldown and doesn't give allies a* **massive True** *damage boost when they hit the victim*
: I'm starting to think Meddler* just favors and wants ADCs to be broken FTFY P.s. Meddler is a support main, the only way he can climb out of plat is by supporting those overbuffed ADCs otherwise he falls into a rut of hardstuck plat 3 like when Morello was leading the balance team
.... Then why do all supports suck so much now that we're seeing Veigar on bottom lane as a support?
: Riot always buffs other adcs instead of nerfing the op ones. Meanwhile in mid lane they just fucking nerf everyone to shit until theres only 2 viable champions.
I remember when you sent either Ashe or a mage mid. Now? It has to be Zed, Yas or Talon. Or maybe Kat if your opponent was stupid enough to send a mage.
: for selling burgers it seems more like a sausage party
> [{quoted}](name=FakeGravity,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=qBRoRMGx,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-12-02T14:53:44.120+0000) > > for selling burgers it seems more like a sausage party {{sticker:sg-lux}}
Aeszarck (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Feathermane,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7OR8Mgj4,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-11-30T00:30:08.137+0000) > > But that is a persuasive argument. If you can draw a parallel between two champions and show that one is better in any comparison, how can they both be balanced? Because their kits are not the exact same, and even if one literally had copies of every ability with additional effects, that Champion's ability numbers and base stats could be tuned.
That's... proof that he had a point. Your notion that it's just a matter of tweaking numbers is extremely disingenuous and demonstrably incorrect in practice. It's not like Lux or Morgana are new champions. They have had numbers tweaks for years and years at this point. Morgana being such an ancient champion design, it really shouldn't surprise anyone that her kit just objectively sucks right now. The only reason she doesn't have a worse win/loss rate than LeBlanc is because she's longer range and has a Black Shield. Absolutely everything else about Morgana is literally a crippling weakness for her team if you picked her insead of any other champion.
: Oh god please no, NO! JUST NO!
Would she lie? Lying is, like, ninety.... five percent of what she does. Are you... *certain*?
: If this story was made into a new champion I would be fairly excited about it. As it stands I don't think sacrificing one of the good stories from the old lore was worth it. If you have to sacrifice one of those older stories pick one of the questionable ones instead.
Varus' was the most questionable. Apart from Lucian, he had the absolutely most banal cliche, and Lucian's story is still painfully cliche.
iLBGAMing (EUW)
: I agree with the removal of the locket but I don't mind the direction of this tbh. Coming from a guy who mains him.
I think his new lore is much more compelling. The old lore felt like such a tacky pulp trope that I've seen a million times before. And Riot's roster does seriously need more diversity - and not just for political correctness points. I have to wonder now about all those rumors since LeBlanc's release about her being trans...
: Lol. The fuck are you talking about? 55% winrate is only 5 more wins every 100 games. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Also the 50% winrate champs will have the same amount of idiots and afkers and leavers as the 55% winrate champ. WHICH IS WHY YOU DONT INCLUDE THEM IN THE STATISTICS. L2 math. Also which horseshit? That lol is the most balanced moba? 100% true. Dota 2s winrates average from 70% to 30% due to how they balance. HoTS is a joke. Smite has decent balance but i still argue LoL is better. That macro is important? Cuz it is. Theres someone on the forumn that is SHIT at champions but got to d1 through macro. Anything else you have a problem with?
You very obviously did not read or understand what I said. Go back and read it again or take a remedial math course and then read it again.
: Ive played since seasons 1. Game plays pretty much exactly the same except for it snowballs harder. Also if what you said was remotely true then there would be no one trick ponys in diamond or master tier. But theres alot of OTPs that high BECAUSE the game isnt "just right click people" Take off those rose colored glasses. Macro is just as important as its ever been. And you can easily reach D1 with macro alone. ALSO ALSO the game is one of the most balanced mobas that exist right now. You say "all that matters is pick the snowball champ" yet literally the highest winrate in the game right now is 55%. Which means if you played one hundred games on the most "broken" champ in the game and i played one hundred games on a balanced champion you would win a WHOPPING 5 MORE GAMES. That's not even enough for a single rank.
A 55% winrate when you average together all the worst idiots and afkers and leavers as well as people who know what they're doing and are playing seriously. How dishonest do you really have to be to have attempted to pull bullshit like that on me? Not even going to legitimize the rest of your horseshit with a response.
: You wont reward a company even if they achieve perfection simply because at one point they messed up? Then why should any company even try? 100% should just act like EA if your not going to give them any money becauee they USED to have problems. The whole point of "paying with your wallet" is when the company gets its shit together you reward them. Otherwise they should just ignore you and everything you want.
It's not "at one point", though. League has been live since 2010. I've been playing since then. And this shit has only gotten worse, believe me. The game wasn't as fancy in 2011, but at least it was more balanced and player decisions and strategy mattered. Nowadays, your choices and your gameplay don't matter. It literally just does not matter what you do. All that matters is whether you picked the champion that can snowball and one-shot literally everyone else. Blink / dash / hop forward and press R or right click on your target... that's not gameplay. That's anti-play. It was not always like this.
Azeranth (NA)
: Itd be fine IF mages we're given the tools needed to poke ADCs and zone them out appropriately. Mispositioning as the ADC should be certain death. But ADC has too much burst and lifesteal that allows them to face tank one too many mistakes and burst
Well ya - if Dodge and Spellvamp were not ok, crit and lifesteal should have been removed first because they're literally infinitely worse: they aren't even gated behind cooldowns or mana costs!
: Well i think they've deadlocked themselves. Their whole design over the past ~1.5-2 years now has been Assassins > Marksmen > Tanks > Assassins Yet this model cuts out substantial portions of the roster from ever being the meta, and forcing them only into supporting roles. If they were to shift the meta, with how things are currently designed, it'd be impossible for it to be anything other than an assassin or tank meta again.
This is why rock-paper-scissors is taught in game design as a fundamentally anti-balance design. It's called a "transitive relationship". It's dynamically stable, but it isn't actually *balanced* in the sense that any given individual within the circle can never feel as if their decisions matter. Fundamentally, players want to feel like they have *agency*. Players want to feel that their choices and behaviors matter and that through their gameplay they can succeed if they do it right. But that's not the current state of the game. Your choices don't matter right now. It doesn't matter that you didn't feed your lane, that you got a lot of CS, that you helped with vision - none of that matters. All that matters is that now there's a fed Yasuo or Twitch somewhere on the map and the entire game now hinges upon dealing with that one champion. No matter what position you occupy on the circle, there's nothing you can do about it if you are up against your hard-counter. That's anti-agency and it's why the game is deeply, profoundly unsatisfying right now.
: They screwed themselves when they committed to not shaking things up for worlds. They had to leave stuff more or less in place to have an established meta going into worlds, and by the time they reached the point in which they could make changes, they were already so close to preseason they couldn't make significant changes then either. So we got an extended time with the current meta, which unfortunately has grown really stale for most people at this point. It's something they really need to look at going forward if they are that committed to not making changes prior to worlds, because honestly, it's not good for anyone that isn't on a pro-team.
The problem isn't that it's "stale". The problem is that it's absolutely *toxic* and anti-fun to have to deal with.
Rorana (NA)
: I dont think anyone is asking for their damage to be halved just to make crit more expensive because they are just scaling to early which pushes a lot of champs out of the meta. At the moment adcs spike earlier and harder than most mages do...
Exactly. Why bother with anything other than adc or hypercarries like Yasuo, Yi, Camille or Riven? Mages actually can't burst anyone right now and they only get insta-popped themselves if they are in range to try. Not only that, but you need this extreme damage stream to deal with the uber tanks available right now. So mages have no reason to exist since everything they can do, a carry can do better and safer and faster.
Nishant (NA)
: People aren't annoyed because Riot isn't fixing issues RIGHT NOW
If spellvamp was toxic for mages to have, I can't understand why it isn't infinitely worse for AD to have lifesteal. It doesn't even cost them mana to recover 200hp per shot (which means roughly 380 hp per second!). Have never given Riot money. Never will. I don't care if the game becomes perfect in some theoretical future. I won't reward this.
: That's not what I said at all. Don't twist my words. Assassins are good at killing any squishy target, mages included, but they are not invulnerable to mages either. Mages are used for siege, zone control, and target selection (with follow up burst). If they can catch a marksmen/assassin out, they're not somehow less effected by mages due to their normal build path. Tanks are always going to counter mages because they will always build health *no matter what*. Assassins and marksmen don't build health, and while countermeasures do exist, that is not what this is about.
Don't try to "twist" your own words.
: > [{quoted}](name=Elipo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEHMP4T7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-05T02:34:05.318+0000) > > I prefer shorter games, having afk farm for like 15 mins was boring Spoken like all my lane opponents in ranked who refuse to farm and just constantly fight.
Why would you do the boring thing if you got better rewards for doing the interesting fun thing? They don't fucking want to farm minions for ten minutes just to get to the good parts. And worse still, because of kill bounties, they only have incentives to kill you.
Elikain (EUNE)
: The entire game revolves around farming minions, not people waiting for their timers to pop off so they can finally get to their item spikes. If someone doesn't like this model, they should play HotS. A game where most of the MOBA things don't matter and you can do whatever you want with your hero. Or simply play ARAM.
Are you *seriously* claiming that minion management and strategy matter in League? Like, I mean, you're saying that players nowadays have to worry about where the creeps are and manipulate them in order to push towers? In League of Legends in 2017? Not, like, y'know, *ideally*. But the game as it is actually played right now.
Voluug13 (NA)
: Why do you think Mid Varus was starting to become popular before nerfs? Ban point&click assassins and Varus can easily outlane everything else.
He's still good on top lane. The only reason he isn't 100% pick for mid is because Zed, Fizz and Kat are too mobile for him to farm safely early on. Which is also the reason that mages can't stand up in mid anymore, too.
: > [{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oajUVlEs,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-11-05T17:42:57.723+0000) > > Worlds finals were Malz vs Cass, Malz vs Ryze and Malz vs Karma > > Nothing but immobile AP mages, and both teams had a fair amount of magic damage even without them > > It's time to stop Crown did nothing relevant that whole series except press R, because AP or AD aside, a point and click suppression is useful. Malzahar wasn't picked for his damage that series. He was picked for his reliable cc. Faker tried his hardest to carry that series, and the only thing that mattered was the underperforming Bang. The casters even said it at one point. Crown was essentially another support. The moment an AD mid with CC shows himself, there will be no reason to ever pick an AP mid again.
... Ashe. Oh boy, if we start seeing Ashe mid again, it'll be full circle all the way back to 2010.
: It's almost like tanks are meant to counter mages
So... Assassins counter mages. Marksmen counter mages... Tanks counter mages.... and... juggernauts counter mages... Oh. Oh I get it. Mages are actually "support" now. That's why Brand, Annie, Lux, Morgana and Zyra go bottom now. Even Veigar is being seen on bottom lane pretty commonly lately.
: Are you complaining bc u want to play a cheap tank and build only dmg and kill everyone.?? Do bots.
Yes they are. Because apparently insane bases and scaling isn't enough, they want more.
: I had a game that I played {{champion:90}} Malzahar I destroyed enemy front line
But only because of suppression. Most of the damage done in that window is due to other people piling on.
: ***
Thanks for the demonstration.
: Morgana mid has no counterplay and is easy as heck to play. You can literally spam one button and win. Don't make it more complicated than it really is.
Mmmmmkay, well, y'know, I'm interested in reality. So if you can't participate in a discussion about reality, then you just need to remove yourself from the conversation.
Rezlac (NA)
: > If someone tells you to build tank, so you get a{{item:3071}} , you might be a Wukong main on a side note I played a game a while back where someone told me to go tank on wukong or they'd report me and another person told me they'd report me if I went tank. Very conflicting.
I dunno. It's hard for me to remember a match I wasn't reported in. After the first couple years, you just sort of assume that there will be three or six ragers reporting everyone in every match. Usually it's assassin players.
Elipo (NA)
: I prefer shorter games, having afk farm for like 15 mins was boring
That has nothing to do with game length. It's a flaw in the economic model of the game's design. Don't like farming minions? Then petition to have the gold income flow changed.
6Sfool (NA)
: Sounds about right. People sell their skills or sell themselves out, and there's more of the latter on youtube.
They make more than me and they don't even have to suck dick. Just metaphorical ones.
: Dude. Play Morgana right, and her passive gives you quite a lot of laning power. Seriously, build RoA and take her mid, with the right runes and masteries. And max W, of course. You won't run out of mana (as long as you're only really using W a lot), and your passive lets you sit in lane for _years_ without having to back. Hell, you can heal a hundred or so HP just from landing a max-rank Q on a minion. If you think her passive is useless, you're clearly not playing her right at _all_. There are sustain passives that are _far_ more useless.
I've played Morgana since 2010. Don't presume to lecture me about her. For starters, in today's meta, if you're sending Morgana mid, you're doing it wrong. There aren't any mid laners now that she can hold against because they all push the wave too fast. And no, if you rush RoA you're falling into the noob trap. Sustain is not her problem once you solve her crippling mana problems (which RoA doesn't, by the way, because it requires you to take damage to get a tiny amount of mana back, and you will never be able to heal yourself for that much if your opponent is serious about poking you, which all midlaners are). Her only real contribution to the team is Q - not even the damage of it, just the root! You need to throw Q as often as possible, which means CDR. Your AP just does not matter on Morgana. At all. **AT ALL**. Because she will never be able to carry and you absolutely must build tanky enough to use her Ult. If you try to Z-glass her ult, you will guarantee that you don't get anyone with the second tick because everyone is so mobile that they will just pop out of the radius before you're finished. You have to keep moving nowadays in order to use her ult, and that means you can't spare anything for luxury AP items that you just can't leverage because literally 60% of your damage it locked behind damage over time and positioning gates. The high AP ratios on Morg are just a lie. She isn't a mage because she just cannot leverage most of her damage in actual practice. No damage, no spellvamp. You're *vastly* overestimating the power of 100hp per 12 seconds.
Thryale (NA)
: sol isn't fun to play tho. really boring tbh :/ (also not as easy as you'd think too)
He is super boring yes. But not very difficult either. There is nothing unique to him that is difficult. It's just basic fundamentals of the game like positioning and timing that everyone has to learn on every champion.
: {{champion:429}} {{champion:421}}
How many female champions are there and what fraction of them is 2? ... Hmmmmmm The phrase "the exception proves the rule" springs to mind.
: Are you attempting to insinuate that Riot would make more females then "Cutesy and Spunky" Or "Sexy and Seductive" ? Shame on you.
I'm not sure "sexy and seductive" is accurate even. Zyra and Eve, for example, are just... slutty in a trashy way. Blatant exploitation of their target audience. I mean, you sit back and look at the female bodies in this game. Imagine if they were bald and didn't have costumes - you couldn't tell them apart. They are even all posed the same in their splash art with that broken-spine tits-up-and-out posture. Meanwhile, male champions, as unrealistically muscular as they usually are, vary a great deal. Urgot, Ivern and Karthus for example. That's not even taking the Yordles into account. Also, Riot seems to have serious problems finding something to model these characters' personalities upon aside from "cutesy spunky" and "cartoony edgelord megalomania". Or just sex.
: Looks can be deceiving{{champion:7}}
I will be playing LeBonk on bottom lane until Riot fixes that passive. Hate on it! {{sticker:leblanc-funny}}
: I don't know about that... there is a lot of summoners burnt in teamfights, and she'll be basically impossible to escape since your flash gives her an extra flash
There already are "impossible to escape" champions, though. Remember when LeBlanc's ability to double dash was considered gamebreaking and novel? Oh how innocent we were in those halcyon days to believe that's where it would end at merely two dashes. {{champion:157}}
: Aurelion Sol says hi.
: Who cares, she's easy to make skin$ for and looks like pinnacle of power creeped mobility. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ all that matters
Because this game totally needed another manic, cutesy anime loli. I swear to god I haven't seen a female character designed without that "spunky chipper and girlish" trope in years. If I hear Talyah hooting "whoo HOOOOO!!!!" one more time, I'm going to stab Xayah while she's dancing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Seto Kaìba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NlscGBZz,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-03T18:34:57.590+0000) > > I mean like, more than Shaco levels of infuriating. Oh my god. thats not possible...
Shaco is only irritating if he's split pushing. He's not cancer like Yasuo because there actually are things you can do to counter Shaco.
: Sounds like She's gonna be a real bitch to play against.
I mean, I'm looking at her super-long-lasting hard CC spell... and I'm asking why she's so mobile on top of it. I look over at Morgana and think to myself: * Dark Binding is almost impossible to land on any target who can see it coming and is higher than Silver 2 * Dark Binding is only a root, not a stun or a silence, and doesn't interrupt dashes in progress anymore (seriously what the actual fuck... even if it hits the target before they begin the dash, so long as they have even just only *begun* the casting animation, it doesn't work on them) * Tormented Soil isn't even big enough to affect an entire creep wave, and you can't control the waves with it anyway because any lane opponent will mess up the delicate positioning of the effect ... just by clearing the minions faster than you. * Tormented Soil only does some damage over time. That's literally it. Why is that a bad thing? Well, in comparison to all the kit overload you see in any champion released in the last three years, it's *insanely bad*. Honestly, if Tormented Soil extended the duration of CC on enemies standing on it, that still wouldn't make it a great ability... and Soil lasts for 5 seconds! To get the damage out of it you have to stand on it for 5 seconds!! * Morg can't secure kills because all her damage is over time. * Shackles... is among the worst ults in the entire game, especially for a long range squishy mage support. And that cooldown...!! * Morg's passive is literally useless. It was nerfed into oblivion years ago, and then Riot removed spellvamp items from the game entirely. You will never see it recover enough hp to actually show up in the floating combat text. That's how pathetic it is. * Given how hyper-mobile the game is now, Morg just cannot do anything because you can't land Q and no one is standing around in a tiny puddle to take the damage from it. She offers some meagre zoning during laning, but Blitz is better at that. * Morg's character model hasn't been updated. Ever. No, textures do not disguise how godawful her hands are and the way her cardboard wings waggle around. The worst part is, if she ever got a model update, they probably would remove her only iconic feature: the skirt. Remember how they raped Karma's impractical dress?
Azadethe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=NakedGranny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JglyFJEP,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-30T20:09:46.103+0000) > > Was it really you who did it though or were you just exploiting an outrageously overpowered no-skill champion? He wasn't particularly EVER overpowered.... The second the game became about flash and blinks and teleports, Udyr was irrelevant. By Season 4, no one actually played Udyr in competitive high elo play. He was a beast due to Zephyr, but so were all the other Champs who used Zephyr like Yi or Xin. He was a 50% champ, so although the potential was there, it was similar to other champs. I happened to have a Trick2G like Mentor who showed me how to correctly position and not run around randomly. I generally knew his mechanics well. The 1v5 was extremely stressful, and probably not re-produceable. I just got in a zone where I knew all their cc, all their kits and timings, and wove between them, Bearing the right targets, tigering the right targets, and then bailing and re-approaching. And I did it like 3 times throughout the game, while my team was pretty much doing nothing but feeding them, caught so much in trying to get "revenge" that they weren't farming, weren't warding, etc. When the other team was dead, I would take a turret and a half and regroup. Back then.... if you lost your turrets, the minions hurt. enough that a behind team couldn't really erase them like they can now. The mechanics allowed an Udyr to take advantage of it, and work a second turret set.
You haven't seen Uddy in action have you. Do you know what his movespeed is? There isn't a champion in the game who can keep away from him for more than 1.5 seconds because he moves that fast. Then go take a look at the cooldown on his stun. With 9,000g he can pump out 5k dps while being tankier than Riven. End of discussion.
Mig89 (NA)
: Its no longer a priority to rush it first. I think on someone like soraka you still want it as its stats are still good. Its just not broken anymore. It relys on the ADC having a bit more damage for it to be fully useful. Leona can easily carry you out of silver. I main Leo and zyra when playing ranked because i like to be proactive and I hit gold easily. If youre snowballing on either you can build a bit of damage and pop squishies. Its not often but at times ill build IBG or (even rarer) if im REALLY ahead ill grab lich bane on Leo. She can lay down a good amount of damage while stun locking someone.
Honestly, I'm in favor of Crucible more. Fatter heals, clutch save potential and extreme sustain with some MR to boot. It's the all-in-one, and you can just build whatever after that. Go full AP with it to see 500 point heals every two seconds and feel like you're actually making a difference. Censer is a no-skill / no-gameplay subsidy for your carry's gold. It doesn't give anything that Crucible doesn't give you more of except for a little bit of AS on your carry... who will waste that buff time just jockeying for position / being stunned anyway. Given how much of the buff is wasted in practice, it's far less effective than it looks on paper. Raka is the only one who can even really keep the Censer buff rolling for any amount of time, so she's the only one it's actually functional on, and I still would rather have the Crucible cleanse clicky. I would have to be up against a teamcomp with absolutely no CC at all to consider not building Crucible.
: The shield and laser were nice but Riot probably won't return them. Most of the changes to turrets were to make games so much quicker which is fine imo but i'd much rather have strategic and long gameplay rather than snowbally intense gameplay.
It's not "intense", even. It's just not fun. It isn't "gameplay" in any sense. Oh, your top or mid fed hard while you were still in laning on bot lane? Too bad. Now you are just waiting to respawn as soon as that Yasuo is in vision range of you. No counterplay, no actual chance to do anything, you just wait for it to end because some idiot in the other lane fed the hypercarry *du jour*. That's not gameplay, intense or otherwise. It's just no fun allowed.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: If you want to win games:
I remember when a 35 minute match would barely have 20 deaths on any team *total*. Like... a match in which one side got 25 kills was just an insane lopsided stomp. Most often, I would see matches last 45 minutes and have maybe 12-15 kills total per team. These days, I almost never get to the 20:00 mark without seeing one side with 20 combined kills. As a longtime support main, I've just given up. It's not possible to make a difference right now because everyone just vaporizes as soon as someone gap-closes onto them. I don't even have problems dying with Soraka because I'm just careful... *but I would trade my Wish for a button that forced teammates to get back to safety in an instant*. No questions asked. I want a button that *forces* teammates to get back.
: It's not even just Silver. Matchmaking is awful. I spend 50 minutes hard carrying a team, gain 15 LP, then lose the next game because everyone on my team is 0/1 before I've even finished my first jungle clear. Or I get bad X lane several games in a row, decide to play that role myself so that they can't feed anymore, and the rest of my team feeds their asses off anyway. That or I load into a lobby and half of my team got auto-filled and the enemy team are a bunch of one-tricks who all got their main role.
It's the damage creep which leads to snowballing. There is no actual gameplay right now because it's all about which team gets their AD hypercarry the first blood / first tower. That lead is impossible to make up for.
: ***
Victim blaming... The OP isn't very good, but that doesn't mean that everything is their fault. The OP can be a crappy player and still be getting screwed by smurfs, feeders, trolls and just fundamental game imbalances.
: If you farm under tower as a jungler, you're essentially giving your position away to the entire enemy team for a few CS, which is not worth the payoff since the enemy team is then free to make decisions around the fact they they know where you are, and how long it will take for you to go from mid to bot/top. A big part of jungling success is the psychological element of not knowing where the JG is at any given time.
Azadethe (NA)
: I miss him tbh. I used to play AD udyr and he's the ONLY champ I ever managed a 30+ kill 0 death game on.... literally 1v5'd an entire Gold team like a Baws...... He might be back in new runes, but there's so many wall jumpers and high move speed builds going around, he's really tough to justify even once he gets his Tenacity back. I know there's still a few Udyr hardcores out there, and although some might pull some 19/3/18 games, I doubt they do it frequently or reliably like they used to, simply because every champ Udyr used to counter, now counters him. He didn't used to have to burn a Flash just to have a chance to REACH an adc.... Now almost every adc just punishes him. Even immobile Xayah can counter an Udyr, simply by snaring him and then ulting when he reaches her with Bear form.... Who can he reach atm? Draven maybe? A post jump Trist who doesn't have her ult? An MF caught in the wrong place?
Was it really you who did it though or were you just exploiting an outrageously overpowered no-skill champion?
Azadethe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=RainXBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JglyFJEP,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-10-29T19:40:44.750+0000) > > I remember when towers actually did something in the past and when the inhibitor and nexus towers had lasers, making diving them very risky. Even if you were someone like Dr. Mundo, they would still shred you during your ult. I remember when Udyr could face tank those towers and take them down without minions.
Uddy has always been insanely overpowered. The spammable shield and unlimited hyper movespeed... He was Riven before Riven existed and is still a superior version in many ways. Everything toxic about Riven exists in Uddy and Xin in spades.
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NakedGranny

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