: No. Winrate below 50% doesnt mean champ is not free win. There is shit ton of other variables that have to be taken into consideration. For thousand timesi repeat: lb with silence had 45% winrate. Did that mean she is balanced? No. She was broken and toxic offering no real counterplay. So is ornn.
> Winrate below 50% doesnt mean champ is not free win. By its very definition it does. It means that if you pick that champion, you are likely to win less than half of your games. Not more. Less. > Did that mean she is balanced? No. She was broken and toxic offering no real counterplay. Toxic and 'free win' are two entirely separate things. Do not confuse them.
: Its not since that is just one auto needed for compemsating the damage loss. Ornn is still broken and a free win in top lane. Denying this is like saying that earth is not round.
> Ornn is still broken and a free win in top lane. And yet, his winrate defies that. So something is wrong here. Either you, or the stats. And the thing about raw numbers? They don't lie.
: The alarming part is that Riot doesn't know how their own game works. They also think catering to LC$ will earn them more players and money - but who's actually willing to play a game that's not enjoyable? No one is the answer.
The thing is, people are still playing. Riot is many things, but a dumb business they are not. If they were even beginning to lose significant player numbers, they'd be finding out why and changing it. The fact that they're not means that they're doing something right.
: {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} So you feel worst losing than winning ? Should we ask those korean player wht they felt ? Want to go on korean league subreddit ?
Pass, I've seen the korean Overwatch subreddit. I'm guessing it's the same thing.
: i don't think it's that extreme illaoi actually has a very deceptively high skill ceiling, it doesn't look that way to opponents because she doesn't do any big dashy outplays, she just finds a way to smash your head in i would consider her the juggernaut equivalent of Shaco despite being 'more like' heimerdinger; she's not going to just turtle in her nest like heim is but she wants to bait you into her traps, like Shaco
The problem with analogy is that Shaco acts through deception. He sneaks around to do his work. For Illaoi, that is literally impossible. All her damage comes from her Tentacles, which are either extremely visible or attached to her ult. Which people can walk out of.
: Yeah, Test of Spirit also needs its "reduced by 1 second each time Illaoi receives damage from the target" removed. It causes very lopsided matchups for no good reason. It would be much better if it scaled with level like 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 second duration, had its tether range slightly reduced, or just something that keeps her viable without ruining the ability for her.
> It causes very lopsided matchups for no good reason. The reason is that it allows for counterplay outside of just running. It means fighting her _can_ be an option.
: Dude riot took time to bann someone who tried to win , while there are ppl who try to make their team lose with over 400 games . I dont get your wht this has nothing to do with that
Has to do with reports. People felt a lot worse about playing with singed420 than with these guys. So they reported more. So it would seem, anyway.
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: >So... how would she feel about a lich? Why did I just mentally translate "lich" as a {{item:3135}} ... Frankly, Kayle doesn't really strike me as a girlfriend/boyfriend type. But even as an angel, she IS a women - and I presume women also got certain needs at times. _One downvote = one silent fuck you...so I "presume" some woman just felt the truth hurt._
>But even as an angel, she IS a women - and I presume women also got certain needs at times. Mind you, angels are traditionally genderless, regardless of appearance. It's entirely possible that all angels in the Leagueverse just look and act female for the sake of ease, rather than whatever passes for biology.
: Y'know, I really don't (and didn't) get why people call her an Assassin when she plays like a Skirmisher. Maybe they think her ideal form (when she inevitably gets a VGU, which she needs no matter what you think her class is or want it to be) is an Assassin, but I really don't see why she'd have to be one. I suppose they could think it fits her lore better. Also, if anyone just want to play an energy Assassin, there is Zed, and Lee Sin is sort of an Assassin hybrid (Still a Diver first). That being said, maybe they don't like those 2, but it would make more sense to have a new energy assassin instead of reworking Akali into one. Granted, I don't think that is a likely reason, but I want to cover it just in case. Ultimately, I really don't mind too much which Slayer subclass she ends up in, as long as her players are happy. Maybe she could be a hybrid of the two classes. Again, either subclass could be the primary one, though I feel like having her as a pure Skirmisher or as a Skirmisher that's an Assassin hybrid would make the most sense. Also, since the blink was only added in during the Assassin Update, she was even more Skirmisher-like before then.
> Y'know, I really don't (and didn't) get why people call her an Assassin when she plays like a Skirmisher. Because her entire kit revolves around high mobility, bursting down a target, and escaping afterwards. Which, incidentally, are the calling cards of Assassins.
: Personality Types and New Champs that you want to see in LOL [ COMMENT SUGGESTIONS ]
A genuine coward. Someone who doesn't fight to win, he/she fights out of sheer panic and desire to live. Would most likely be some kind of trap master, someone who tries to avoid direct combat as much as possible.
: No matter how much I try to shake it, I can't get rid of this "Frienemy" feel from Kayn and Rhaast.
They're most certainly not going down that path. Kayn is using Rhaast, and Rhaast wants to devour Kayn. And they both know it. Give either of them half a chance, and they'd tear away the other if they could. Necessity is all that binds them together.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AbEcGWEu,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-10T02:31:26.208+0000) > > Nonono, that is a Mexican dish made with corn husks! > > You actually were thinking about a tally. Nonoo, that's a score or amount, you're thinking of a Tablet.
Negative, that is a device most commonly associated with Androids. I believe that 'tallyho' is what you meant to convey to others.
: What I don't get is: What was wrong with Malz the way he was prior to the MYMU (6.9)? He was strong but certainly not "broken". When I refer to "broken" I mean he is now either completely overpowered (like he was right after the MYMU) or practically a troll pick because he's so meager (which is what he is now). He's not even a top notch support but certainly a better support than mid laner at this point. It's becoming clear that Riot cannot properly balance new or reworked champions anymore. Examples: Azir - on release he was buggy, overpowered and absolutely not fun to play against. Aurellion Sol - Very linear playstyle, boring, had a sickeningly low win rate until fairly recently. His design is hard to balance in the first place so he is always in a tough spot. Taliyah - On the scrap heap. Nerfed to the ground and not really viable now especially after changing her original W. Ivern - Garbage initially, then buffed continuously and is now top 10 win rate champion. Camile - So strong on release that she had to be hot fixed and has since been nerfed to death... I never see her anymore. Ryze - That speaks for itself. None of this bodes well for the new champions they are releasing, does it?
> What I don't get is: What was wrong with Malz the way he was prior to the MYMU (6.9)? Two chief reasons, off the top of my head 1. Wasn't fulfilling fantasy. Was supposed to be a mage that works with his summons, but 90% of the time ended up as a mage with incidental summons (other 10% was AD Malz) 2. Too much power in his E, needed to be shifted
: At least the old Malzahar wasn't played a support. He just feels AWFUL to play AS, because they've been forced to make him so fucking weak. Secondly he feels AWFUL to play against because his physically lacks counter play. Wtf am I supposed to do about a point and click Damage over time? At least Teemo has to fire a projectile from his AA range, or I have to be dumb enough to walk on his shrooms At least Brands doesn't cause little fire demons to chase after me, and at least it is percentage health and just not flat.
> Wtf am I supposed to do about a point and click Damage over time? Just to jump in, old Malz's E was stronger. Part of the reason for the rework was to shift power away from it into the other parts of his kit,
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=UrZedM8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r4lu1zqW,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2017-04-05T08:43:51.858+0000) > > Well designed and Malz should never be put in the same sentence. Unless there is an "was not" there aswell. So malazhar has always had at least one change or nerf every couple patches since release right? No? Just since the rework? Huh. Its almost like pre-rework malzahar was balanced as an anti-assassin with clearly defined weaknesses and a potent niche.
Just to jump in, that logic is flawed. By that _exact_ arguement, pre-rework Poppy was also a balanced champion. Just because a champion isn't touched doesn't mean they don't have their issues,
: QSS was only a minor annoyance honestly as the flat damage from Nether Grasp still went through. He was an **immobile** mage that **pushed** a lane. This is apparently a team game, so put 2 and 2 together.
Just to jump in, that wasn't a downside. He pushed a lane, but he could also do it from his own turret. His old E was strong enough to wipe out a wave with a bit of help from his Voidling(s). You couldn't gank a halfway decent Malz because he was sipping margaritas under his tower while his opponent was farming under theirs.
: https://media.makeameme.org/created/but-whos-counting.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/94HlBOTMbkOe4/giphy.gif
: http://i.imgur.com/auoeS.jpg?noredirect
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: Thresh is the only reason I am willing to support. > [{quoted}](name=FakeGravity,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BxFm374E,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-04-04T19:05:48.131+0000) > > lucian vs thresh too much? No. Not nearly enough. To appreciate pain you must know the value of that which is being taken away.
Eh, I stepped on some Legos. Close enough.
: Also don't forget that a majority of Yasuo mains were played by a bunch of whiny 10-13 years old kids or some immature adult who has a strong sense of weebo in him.
Because the vast majority of other players are clearly level headed and mature adults.
: **Sword**: I am the Darkin Blade. Who dares challenge m- **Lamp Post**: :) **Sword**: Oh, it is you, my master. Is it time to lay waste to this world? **Lamp Post**: Eh, give 'em a couple hundred years. See if they can clean this up.
: {{champion:164}} created to be a tanky, mobile, assassin
Just to jump in, no. She's not an assassin. She's a bruiser, like Irelia.
: you dodged the question if you don't play in high elo you're obviously not concerned, what i said is that no high elo player would like his main remaining trash because of low elo
That's not really dodging at all. It's as direct as it can be. You asked >who wouldn't be mad to have his main trash in high elo and balanced around low elo And I responded with > Probably everyone who doesn't play in high elo. Simple as that, really. I'd imagine no player wants their main trashed for any reason, regardless of elo. It doesn't mean the minority should be favored over the majority. If Sona has to be balanced for the many at the cost of high elo in her current state, then that's the price that has to be paid.
: hm? you mean that i'm mad because Sona is unplayable in master? yes i am, who wouldn't be mad to have his main trash in high elo and balanced around low elo
Probably everyone who doesn't play in high elo. Which is.... you know, the vast majority of players.
: There is an undiscovered 10th circle of hell beneath Lucifer's frozen lake where you play as an immobile top laner against PD-Tabi-Bruiser Yasuo for all eternity
Glîtchy (NA)
: Why are some against 5 bans per team?
Theres no real point to it. You ban the 10 worst champs. Great. Then the next 10 will take their place until either they become permabanned or the former gets balanced. And the cycle never ends. You don't even learn to play against certain champs. Bans in competitve should be used to try and avoid the opposing team from getting their super-ideal comp, or to make sure a certain player ca't get his 90% winrate champion. Bans in casual should be used to remove only the absolute worst offenders. If there are 10 or more of them, then you may as well just close down the game and fix them first.
: Leoric has a teleport effect and a 3 minidash. Also he has ranged harass that heals. Also if he does die he has a mobile ghost that lets him rez. He has plenty of tools to deal with it in addition to his ult. Despite being in a game with no last hitting. Next.
Yes, that's why he's such a contested pick! Except... Wait... He isn't anymore. For all the reasons you listed. His Drain Hope is unreliable since ranged opponents can just shuffle out of it, and his E is almost never going to be used to engage since it's also his only escape.
: BS. Go play HotS. Every hero has a mobility spell except Arthas and Stitches who have ranged CC, ranged champions and a couple supports.
Off the top of my head: Kael'thas, Nova, Zarya, Jaina, Guldan, Nazeebo, Raynor, Murky, Stitches, Chromie
Garran (NA)
: Galio was a MAGE. A MAGE. Let me repeat myself. GALIO WAS A MAGE, THAT WAS HIS MAIN THING. He wasn't a tank, he was a TANKY MAGE.
Eh, I never saw it. I always put him in the same vein as Gragas, a magic bruiser, rather than a tanky mage. Hell, gragas got his minor rework for the exact reason.
: Can we address the horrible RNG involved in getting gemstones?
> I understand you need to make money, Riot, but nobody is going to give a flying fuck about gems if they're stupidly hard to get. You greatly underestimate the power of whales.
: Champions like Irelia love AS over AD. Champions like Kayle like AS over AP. Jinx still wants her 350+ AD build. No, its not as high as the Essence Reaver build, which will get you to over 400 AD. But its still a very high-AD build.
No, she still prefer crit + AS over raw AD. AOE crockets are no joke when she's pumping them out.
Brascus (NA)
: miss fortune? malphite? zac?
Miss fortune is not melee, last I checked. Malphite and Zac do not self cc. Hell, look at Zac's ultimate name!
: Why are they more lee sin skins????
Basic rule of business: You sell what people will buy.
: dota 2 has no rank, and it works fine:)
Ok, lets not pretend that games in dota aren't decided by how many Russians you get on your team.
Brascus (NA)
: Everyone else mostly eats turret damage while ulting or diving, I got nothing against Yasuo but just looking at this objectively it doesn't make much sense, when you pause to think about it. What's the risk if there's no consequence? You're supposed to calculate how many turret hits you can take before leaving, that's supposed to be a core concept of diving. It's less interesting for everyone when this is taken away.
Compared to who? How many other melee carries have to actually sit there and just wait out an animation? The closest would be WW, and he gets a pretty decent heal to tide him through. Literally no other melee champion has to cc themselves to pull off their ult. An ult, mind you, that already requires a condition to be used.
: Does Riot have any plans to balance this game to a point where the majority of champions are viable?
The vast majority of champions are viable. I think you're confusing 'viable' with 'top-tier'. Most champions can, with a bit of practice, be taken to high ranks. That is viability. Now, some champions are much much easier to do this with than others. That is balance.
RexSaur (NA)
: Wasant the goal of the assassin rework to make assassins more healthy?
Not entirely. None of the major reworks are really themed around balance. They're based around making each champion unique in their role.
: there's no point to it though if you go the attack speed crit route though, as you auto faster than the double up animation. Meaning, if you use double up, you're actually wasting an auto, not to mention it won't crit.
You can only AA one person. Double up lets you hit two. And assuming my memory serves me correctly, Double Up can crit no matter what, it's only guaranteed if the first bullet kills.
: "Lets make her doubleup work better with crit, that will stop people from stacking lethal/ArmPen and make her more like an ADC" -Deskjockey who hasn't logged in for three seasons, 2017 They don't realize no one picks MF for her double up, and Double up is a lane ability, by the time she gets enough crit to make it worthwhile, it'll be teamfight stage.
..What? Double up is by no means bad in teamfights. Hell, the entire point of it is that you can aim the first shot at their frontline, and it'll bounce to their back line.
: Would you really say that any of those _don't_ have overloaded kits? Don't you think there's a reason they were nerfed? Nearly all champions see nerfs at some point, until they are so bad as to deserve a "rework," but if you've been playing since Season 1, you can't deny how much more is packed into kits since about S3+ compared to pre-S3. It hasn't slowed down either. Every season has even more power, and even more gimmicky stuff, when they create new champs. Every once in awhile they try to temper it some, but usually it's just tons of self-synergy--high mobility, resets, proc counters, executes, %hp dmg, heavy CC, etc--when older champs were designed with the synergy of other champions in mind. That's all fine, though. They are catching older champs up and modernizing them. The "overloaded kit" is the norm now, but that's exactly the point I was making in the first place. > _Creating new champs with overloaded kits is the "leading cause."_ (of power creep)
> you can't deny how much more is packed into kits since about S3+ compared to pre-S3. I'll counter with Jayce, Elise, Lee, and Irelia. Even since the olden days there have been plenty of champions that have had their kits stuffed to the brim. And more often than not, these are the stronger champions these days too.
SUPERMOVA (EUW)
: Garen only counters Rivens in low silver/ bronze so maybe thats why you think Garen is a counter to riven, because you're trash at the game
And Riven is only a problem in low Bronze. So congrats :D You're worse than trash.
: Yet, no other Burst Mage 100-0s with R and R alone, hm....
It wasn't R alone though. R alone would just be a 3 sphere burst. You can argue a lot of things, but having those many spheres out means her R wasn't the sole cause, regardless of what the other abilities did.
SUPERMOVA (EUW)
: just revert all the Riven buffs already
Off the top of my head {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:39}}
: Considering the reworked Malz's entire power budget was spent on his voidlings, yes it was different. You could actually threaten with Visions + Ult without a voidling around. Now you have to have a voidling or you won't be killing anything with his old standard combo.
Wait, wasn't that the entire point of the rework though? To make it so that most of his damage wasn't on his undodgeable Space Aids?
: You say that as if Rito's ideas are actually original either, they are not. All Rito does is, like you said, make similar kits to characters in not just other games, but animes and et cetera. Camille is an Attack on Titan ripoff if you haven't already noticed.
What character in Attack had blade legs? I mean, if you're saying that she's a ripoff based solely on the fact that she has grapple legs (and they don't even work in the same way), shame on you.
: Both have had (arguably do have) major balance issues. I don't know what you're talking about.
It's... a bit debatable. They are strong, but all their strength can only be pulled out through their allies. They're really only as strong as the people they are working with.
: I'm just thinking to myself "what beats Galio?" Sion would be the equivalent of Noxus but he doesn't look nearly as big. At his side Malphite looks like a bunch of pebbles duct taped together. And he's made of magic stone. I think if there is a rune it is well safe within him. Anyways, I must suffer from old age or simply not being hip enought, but I don't relate size to coolness at all -_-
In a straight up fight? Off the top of my head {{champion:136}} - Cosmic level entity {{champion:62}} - Has significant speed advantage, clones + invis makes fighting him a pain, and breaking stone shouldn't be a problem for him {{champion:115}} - Depends on how magical his bombs are. If they're primarily explosive based, then they should put a dent or two in even Galio.
: Excuse me, where did you see the "lowest range"? 550 is THE average range for ranged champions. We only have Cait, Varus, Jinx's Fishbones, Mid/Late Tristana, Kog's W and Twitch with ult who have higher range, and for 1/2 of them it's situational. >her brand of sustained high damage against single targets is not enough Where have you been for the last 3 months? :(
Entirely wrong point. Vayne is considered the lowest range because unlike other adcs, she has no way to interact with anything outside of that range. It's her limit. It's not referring to her AA range, but rather her effective range.
: Ivern is pretty mobile with his q dash, isn't he?
I'd call that debatable. It would be like calling Leona mobile. It's mobility, but it's too limited to be mobile. And yes, there is a difference between the two.
: Why does every new champion have a ton of moblilty
You give champions the tools they need to fit their job. Let's look at the last few champs released Camille is a fighter, like Xin, Irelia, and even Kled. They're meant to have fairly reliable ways of engaging because that is literally part of a job description. Same for Ekko. He's an assassin. When have you seen an assassin without mobility?
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Narasimha

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