Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 9
Dear Meddler, I'm curious on why Veigar {{champion:45}} isn't looked at for any changes/kit adjustments to help him out. He is PRIMARILY seen in competitive only as a Soft-Counter/Answer to Azir and nothing more. His Solo Q performance goes DRASTICALLY down the higher you go. With the balance frame-work you guys at Riot posted, he seems to be a candidate to be looked at for some sort of help. Specially since you have buffed or are buffing his counters: Syndra/LB/Katarina/Fizz and now next patch; Kassadin. He's currently better off being played in the bot-lane than actual mid-lane that goes down to a whopping sub 45% winrate when you reach "Elite play". Kassadin statistically is doing better than Veigar in Elite play and is getting some love, while Veigar isn't.
Nubrac (NA)
: Here are Reasons I Won't Drop the Ban Discussion
You literally tried to sell your intentionally trolling strategy as legitimate. So I'm not quite sure if you're severely delusional or if you need professional help on your psychology. But the fact will remain that you brought this upon yourself. People did not agree nor like this strategy WHEN YOU FORCED IT ON THEM in the beginning. You could've fixed it with an apology to the community but you instead chose to just keep ruining games. Thus the community will just act upon accordingly since Riot won't suspend you for good for intentionally griefing. So good luck with never being able to play League of Legends like how you did it to others in the past.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 19
Veigar changes when? {{champion:45}} Buffing his counters when some of them were doing fine while he's not doesn't sit well with him as he's sitting at 47% winrate.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 28
Veigar changes when?{{champion:45}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
Veigar love when? {{champion:45}}
Riot Jag (NA)
: Update on Teemo changes
So how about looking into Veigar?{{champion:45}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Dear Meddler, Give some love to Veigar{{champion:45}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 20
Veigar {{champion:45}} changes when.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 8
When are you going to give Veigar some love? Even a small mana sustain on his Q would be sufficient to how bad his laning is (that you barely buffed the last time).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
Veigar {{champion:45}} changes when?
Theorex (NA)
: Dude the champion is a no skill champ. His weakness is early game. And it should remain the same, because by 20 minutes if he is playing well. He has well over 200 stacks on his passive. Meaning that he will out AP everyone at even CS. And he becomes a monster with that because of his ratios.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=theorex
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
So nothing for Veigar yet again! Thanks for showing biased neglect to him.
: If Akali's LOSING most matches, that means people are figuring her out. There's a chance the Worlds meta will shift her out in future games if it appears that teams are prepared for her too much. You don't want to lock in an auto-loss. Your champ clearly isn't that amazing if everyone that picks her loses.
Or people are too fast to pick her without sufficient practice. There's a reason why she's P/Ban... no practice on her.
: Akali - Our nerf in 8.17 hit pretty hard - scaling exponentially with MMR (on that patch she dropped ~0.5% at low MMR all the way up to 2.6% at high MMR). We hadn't seen any pro play with the nerfs, and also believe that there are counters to Akali that hadn't yet been picked up much (Zil, Veigar, maybe even Renekton as we've been watching in KR solo queue as examples). Nerfing her blindly even further seemed incorrect given her live performance. Kai'sa was already making it through a lot of ban phases in playoffs/regional qualifiers meaning that pros were willing to play against her. We'd nerfed her on 8.18, nerfed several supports frequently picked to keep her safe in lane phase, and buffed some pretty strong lanes against her. Meddler already touched on Alistar. When it comes to balancing for pro play, a question you always need to be asking is "ok so who's next?". If we had swung hard and nerfed Urgot and Aatrox on 8.19, the likely result is that folks like Cho, Ornn, and Sion raise in priority. Nerf Graves, Camille, Olaf, you see more Gragas, Sej, and Trundle. Nerf Kai'sa, Varus, you see more Ezreal Trist, and Xayah (and Rakan as a result of their synergy). Everything is a tradeoff at the end of the day, and this year we opted for the strategy of buffing more of the counters to the champs at the top as a means of bringing the highest presence and lower presence champs closer to parity rather than just replacing the current top picks with the next in lane champs in the middle. This is kind of glossing over a pretty large topic, but hope it sheds some light.
So Veigar as a 'counter' (which is a lie my dear Rioter) to Akali is enough to not buff him in the slightest? I'm not sure what your statistics are saying but Akali remains to be a P/B champion in high elo while still tremendously performing well enough to solo carry despite the user not having too many games on the champion.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 26
It's about that time of the year where Veigar isn't neglected from the balance team... Can there be something done to fix his issues while cutting away from his scaling? Majority of Veigar players do not like completely irrelevant till 30 minutes to contribute to the game.
: fix him? Like they fixed galio? or varus's lore? SMH, veigs is golden as is, we dont want rito ruining him because "Change for the sake of change" {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
No it's not, sorry if you're a newbie but get real.
: NO, RITO NO! PLEASE LEAVE MY VEIGAR ALONE. IF YOU LOVE HIM YOU WONT TRY TO CHANGE HIM!!! {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}}
If they cared about him, they would change him and fix him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=38E5AMu9,comment-id=0024000000020000,timestamp=2018-08-29T16:38:40.828+0000) > > Sure, current highest priority targets (Not including ones already announced) are {{champion:32}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:106}} > > This always shifts and changes of course, this is just our current thinking Damn, no Veigar. Feelsbadman.
Such is the life of Veigar
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29
Yikes, a chance to update Veigar's very outdated visuals and clunky kit is a long ways out. While nothing to buff him and help him in the near upcoming patches. Seems sketchy considering you love to indirect nerf him a lot.
Reav3 (NA)
: He is pretty high on our list. This is largely due to internal data we have that shows TONS of new player are drawn to Nocturnes theme and the idea of his kit, but then they drop him very quickly. Our theory here is that if we modernized his kit and gave him a full VGU then many more people would stick with him and he would be a extremely popular and sticky Champion. Currently I think his playrate is under performing based on how resonate his theme seems to be.
Make Eternum Nocturne feel more scary to play against please.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 24
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 15
: Except for champions with just a regular dash, the cage stops them in place, and none of them are tanky enough to get hit by him at all. Zed can get in or out of the cage, sure, but that’s because he has a blink, which not very many champions do (and most don’t use it as their engage tool)
Then you should look to not being in a place where people's reaction are that of a snail.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 10
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Yasuo got blasted by 8.15 (took the brunt of the IE nerfs [which were huge] without the balancing factor of the Stormrazor buffs). We wanted to avoid pre-emptive buffing him, despite knowing it was power down, but I expect him to be weak on 8.15. (Pro is playing on 8.14). We aren't going through with the Yasuo buffs as Scruffy stated, because we can't get good alignment on a changelist that is not frustration up (and he is a high risk buff candidate), but I suspect he'll be weak for this patch as a result.
>Yasuo got blasted by 8.15 Not true. He got blasted by the fact his champion skill floor is designated to be high. Yet his playerbase can never fully master him as the majority of them are just not good. If you give him a buff like this, you end up creating a problem like Ahri where everyone is overly doing good for a champion that is supposed to be a test to your individual player skill in terms of mechanical and macro. On another note, why are you only helping Yasuo out when other champions have received heavy indirect nerfs from item changes/rune key gutting and hard meta shifts?
: We're pulling those changes for 8.16 - not everything that goes to PBE will ship in the end.
You're right, not everything does. But you guys are crazy enough to almost always go through with this.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 3
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 1
Since the rune update... Majority of the champion roster has received abundance of free damage. Instead of tactically using it and interacting in a positive way, it just creates an unhealthy window of "hmm my electrocute is up! I can do my full combo trade now and put them at 10% hp" or in my case vs Orianna. "Ori's E is down maybe I can go for some quick trades!... oh wait no her aery is making her out trade me with just a few autos and she's poking me down extra hard because of aery". There were items and other ways to counter this amount of absurd damage from snowballing too much. But you have removed those options and left certain champions like {{champion:45}} to rot without any compensation as you continue to buff their counters or make the outliers (Ryze/Cass/Zoe) stay strong and relevant. The old runes were definitely not as 'cool' as this Runes Reforged system. But it certainly had more diversity in what people wanted to do with their runes without it breaking the game severely and making the subpar champions become "bad". I've asked for attention on Veigar {{champion:45}} in my past attempts on your posts but you seem to always neglect 90% of any Veigar discussion. So will you address him and giving him a most needed change? Not even a straight-up buff but a complete power-shift in his kit so he isn't bad without having to use things like "Spellbook/Abyssal Mask" to make him finally at the 'ok' spot and then suddenly bad because you nerf those two things severely? Since at this point... you killed the champion with the initial 5.4 changes and haven't really made him as defining as he once was. (DFG on the PBE brings a nostalgia feeling but not entirely there). It's probably better all around to give him a VGU/Rework on warwick's scale.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
Veigar {{champion:45}} changes when??? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
Another post that Veigar {{champion:45}} feels neglected in...
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 13
Is there any work for Veigar? {{champion:45}} You and the rest of the balance team seem to ignore questions tending to this little angry fuzzball. He's been indirect nerfed quite a bit this season... He lost Stormraiders at the initial start of the season with runes reforged, then Veigar players settled on Spellbook as it allowed us to fix his still "below worst in class" (you guys stated this) laning phase a little bit. He was in a decent spot without being overbearing in comparison to Malzahar/Azir/Ryze/Cass/Galio, which some of them could use Abyssal Mask like Veigar but no longer due to its nerf. Spellbook was then gutted and his performance started to tank...the initial new Arch-Angels from the mage item update soften the Spellbook nerf impact for Veigar players. Then you guys started to over nerf Arch-Angels which pretty much hurt his scaling and sealed it with making the game very more early-game rewarding. Which for a Veigar player, is going to be hell as the champion no longer has a decent laning phase as he once did back in Pre 5.4. So will there be any work for him at all?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11
No word for Veigar still?
Meddler (NA)
: Changes to some mages should still be in 8.14. Expect them on the PBE late this week or early next week. Delay is due to 8.13 to 8.14 being 3 weeks instead of 2, so we're taking time early in the cycle to get some other stuff done. We don't have details of what changes yet, unlikely to be giving them a lot of mana back though, looking to give them power that's not as wave clear heavy if possible.
Is Veigar included in that list for mages?
: Hey all, I want to thank you for all the feedback being posted. On these Boards, Reddit, Youtube, Twitter - we've been listening to your thoughts on these Fizz changes. Our initial goal with the new W was to make a lightweight change and see if Fizz players enjoyed a different input for W. But from what we've heard from the majority of Fizz players, you enjoy the current live W over the experimental changes. So we're going to be pulling these changes out from PBE. If there is a clear opportunity for the right Fizz changes in the future, we're open to it, but we don't want to force changes to live that Fizz players don't want. Thank you again for your input. {{champion:105}}
>but we don't want to force changes to live that Fizz players don't want. Glad you only do this for Fizz players and no one else :)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 22
Still nothing for Veigar {{champion:45}} ... Nice
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
You're giving Kassadin some buffs on the PBE with the notion the games are too fast for him to spike. So what's the reasoning of not giving {{champion:45}} Veigar a look at if he's in the same boat. The game is too fast for him to be spiking in comparison to other champions who would taken complete control by the time Veigar reaches relevancy at 30 minutes. You taken away storm raiders from him during the Rune Reforge (nimbus cloak is a joke replacement along with phase rush). Completely butchered Spellbook that helped out iron his weaknesses early-game (didn't make him over the top out of line). Nerfed Abyssal so he can't really use it in all match-ups vs AP and survive. When the mid-season AP itemization was coming around, you took away Morellos to a more balanced state but doesn't really favor Veigar. You nerfed A.A staff so scaling mages don't get a boat-load of AP for a cheap price compared to the other choices. At what point will you acknowledge he still needs help to be in an ok spot without being too affected heavily by constant indirect nerfs... Seems like you just neglect him entirely until the end of the season. So is this neglect for him have any actual good reasoning that doesn't fall on the bad excuse of "infinite scaling". Or is he a candidate for a full VGU so he isn't a relic of the past. {{champion:45}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 15
Again, still nothing for Veigar{{champion:45}} despite receiving many indirect nerfs. The celerity nerf being one of the more recent slap to him... I'm assuming people on the balance team seriously think he's fine despite him getting close to the position that he was in last season. Only that its worse as everyone has more free damage to hold him down hard while his tools of finding a way to survive got gutted...
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Still no word on Veigar
: veigar is dumb
Yes, stop losing a matchup your champion easily dominates over. The problem isn't Veigar, it's pretty much you not understanding how the game works.
: Guy has a J4 ulti at level 1 that lasts 5 seconds and stuns you for almost 3 if you touch the end at any point turning its duration. His AOE 100% AP Scaling Nuke gets to like a 1.2 second cooldown and his Ulti is a point and click ability that basically kills anything that isn't full HP. Dunno why people don't bitch about him more tbh.
Because you don't know how to play the game yet.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 8
Veigar {{champion:45}} is feeling neglected once again...
: This is why silver is one of the "ELO hells". the skill differences in that elo are so damn high.
: Yes, fam. It is not easy to get to Silver if you've never climbed it before. Reaching Silver was one of the most difficult things I ever did. Now I can get it consistently because what I learned stuck with me but that first time was pure hell. Struggled in B5 for months before I figured out how to get out 2 years ago.
The first year I played League was in Season 3... Got Silver 2 and ended Gold 1 first season. The issue with the "climb" from Bronze/Silver is not teammates. It's literally you either unable to learn the game in a month or you just don't have time. Bronze/Silver are the casual ranks for a reason.
: If you're not a bronze level player you will not be placed there. If you are a silver level player, you will leave bronze. Also, even if you win 10 ranked games on a fresh account, you will still be silver 1 at highest, at least this was the case for me two years ago.
: Baron takes a lot longer to kill now so he shouldn't be doing massive damage to your team
: I'm not Meddler, but we don't currently have any plans for Shen. We've been focusing a lot more effort into all the larger scale changes you've been seeing coming out recently, and de-emphasizing champ specific tuning in a lot of cases until midseason patches are done and out of the way. We're still doing some small champ stuff, but it's usually things we can validate quickly. I'd imagine that post midseason we'd be taking a pass on all champs that are sitting lower than ideal.
Would that include Veigar? He finally felt in an ok spot when Spellbook was initially released. Then Abyssal mask became a standard purchase to help him survive one-sided matchups like Katarina. But both Abyssal and Spellbook got gutted and he's back to being where he was prior to his Season 7 changes. Just below subpar. If he is a candidate. Will it be reasonable to take off some scaling power to give some actual laning? Since the only lane buff he received was a range buff which doesn't really translate to much. Health regen was laughable at best.
: Wdym he can't farm under tower? he can walk up, Q and walk back with some autos in between if he feels like it...
I forgot people in your games don't know how to play the game yet x3
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 23
Not a single word about {{champion:45}} again.
: how exactly are you gonna play against someone who farms under their turret. thats like saying you can dive for kills at level 1
Veigar can't farm under his tower, his range is not that high. Most champions can still harass him down if he goes down to farm. If he tries to go fight you with Q, you can dodge it. You forcing his abilities to fight, makes him go oom I'm sorry if you think there are no options to fight Veigar. But there's a reason why good players don't consider him good and easily abusable. If you're struggling vs Veigar, the issue is you.
: No thanks, I'd rather not see him farming under tower all game just to see him play god and penta my teammates by pressing ewr
Then you should try on improving your skill if you think he's good.
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Necroside

Level 193 (NA)
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