: urf is a game mode for broken op stuff and fun, its not balanced and was never intended to be, people who whine about it and think it should be are morons and should avoid the game mode. use it to practice dodging skillshots and landing your own cause its great for that since everyones cooldowns are so low you have to dodge 24/7. Also he had a yummi on him spamming zoomies + he had ghost lol.
> [{quoted}](name=Its All Skillzz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-10-29T18:20:01.957+0000) > > urf is a game mode for broken op stuff and fun, its not balanced and was never intended to be, people who whine about it and think it should be are morons and should avoid the game mode. use it to practice dodging skillshots and landing your own cause its great for that since everyones cooldowns are so low you have to dodge 24/7. > > Also he had a yummi on him spamming zoomies + he had ghost lol. Yeah no, Yuumi is also kinda broken because she literally can't be killed ever if she just sits her ass on the right target, while providing ms and poke and healing and damage, at 80% cd. That's pushing what's tolerable even for a gamemode that could be accurately renamed "BOB" for "Broken OP Bullshit" and have no effective change on the community's reception of it. It's nuts dude, even by the standard.
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T17:47:59.151+0000) > > I'm aware, yes. They should've capped it for URF, because that's inherently gamebreaking and unfun to play against. 80% CDR of which we can't obtain in normal games & everyone being completely manaless, and THAT is gamebreaking?? You're definitely just salty from losing to that 1 dude. Get over it.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-29T18:54:26.481+0000) > > 80% CDR of which we can't obtain in normal games & everyone being completely manaless, and THAT is gamebreaking?? > > You're definitely just salty from losing to that 1 dude. Get over it. Yes, being able to dodge everything thrown at you just because you move so fast is gamebreakingly insane. Even in the gamemode where everything is supposed to be gamebreakingly insane. At least Fizz has like a 1.5 second window between Playful/Tricksters that you can burst him for. Jhin doesn't even have that.
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-29T17:31:49.499+0000) > > Except that it's been brought UP from the normal movement speed steroid, which would be totally acceptable?? You do know that Jhin’s Move speed steroid scales with his Attack speed, right? You do know that all champions get buffed stats across the board, including Attack speed, right?
> [{quoted}](name=JustMonika13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T17:38:55.717+0000) > > You do know that Jhin’s Move speed steroid scales with his Attack speed, right? > > You do know that all champions get buffed stats across the board, including Attack speed, right? I'm aware, yes. They should've capped it for URF, because that's inherently gamebreaking and unfun to play against.
: Quite honestly, jhin was always this powerful even with rotations and in norms. While I do believe that jhin shouldn't be allowed to move at the speed of sound, I'd have to put out there that these people don't make the game fun for anyone... unless he goes ap. XD I have a blast at doing that.
> [{quoted}](name=Hazardus ducees,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-29T09:26:15.311+0000) > > Quite honestly, jhin was always this powerful even with rotations and in norms. While I do believe that jhin shouldn't be allowed to move at the speed of sound, I'd have to put out there that these people don't make the game fun for anyone... unless he goes ap. XD I have a blast at doing that. See if they'd made it so that he didn't move faster than most players can click him, you might have a point with going AP over AD. But if you can build him normally (you can) and have him run from bot lane to top lane in 4 seconds (you can), while having lane-long FREE poke and wave clear (you do), that's not "fun", which was the supposed purpose of URF mode, that's "intensely broken and unfun to play against".
: Why? Because it's URF. It takes the normal mechanics, and amplifies them. I just played a duo as Kayle with a Morgana, and we fucking DEMOLISHED the game. They went in on me? I ate everything and shredded their faces cuz Morg shield. They went in on Morg? She Zhonyas after I ult her, they all die, and I shred the rest of the survivors. URF is meant to be ridiculous. If you aren't having fun, then play another mode
> [{quoted}](name=Gamma Sector,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-29T04:35:03.751+0000) > > Why? Because it's URF. It takes the normal mechanics, and amplifies them. I just played a duo as Kayle with a Morgana, and we fucking DEMOLISHED the game. They went in on me? I ate everything and shredded their faces cuz Morg shield. They went in on Morg? She Zhonyas after I ult her, they all die, and I shred the rest of the survivors. > > URF is meant to be ridiculous. If you aren't having fun, then play another mode URF is meant to be ridiculous. But even the most traditionally ridiculous champions in the gamemode have some kind of counterplay. Katarina can't handle hard CC. Kassadin dies if you mob bodies on him. Garen dies to kite champions still, and Veigar, Brand, etc. lose out to artillery mages. Jhin just doesn't have that. He's got consistent wave clear and poke from underneath his tower at all points in every lane, and once he's farmed up and poked you to death from under his tower a couple times, he can two-shot tanks from melee range and outrun even a Hecarim or a Rammus.
: Jhin has always been like that in URF. I've played him when it was ARURF but haven't on URF yet. Honestly, it's not that bad though.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkCaves,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-29T07:02:13.884+0000) > > Jhin has always been like that in URF. I've played him when it was ARURF but haven't on URF yet. Honestly, it's not that bad though. Did you even like look at the video tho? It IS that bad, because he's literally moving fast enough that no one could land any skillshot on him. In a later fight morde point blank e'd his ass while he was auto-attacking, and he ran LONG WAYS OUT OF IT.
Kenneky (EUW)
: What's more annoying this or full movement speed {{champion:120}} or {{champion:33}}? Jhin can accomplish such speed only in URF while Rammus and Hacarim can do this on a normal circumstances. URF is ment to be fun and playing off meta builds, If you don't like him on URF just perma ban Jhin or don't bother playing URF.
> [{quoted}](name=Kenneky,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-29T07:59:51.963+0000) > > What's more annoying this or full movement speed {{champion:120}} or {{champion:33}}? > Jhin can accomplish such speed only in URF while Rammus and Hacarim can do this on a normal circumstances. > URF is ment to be fun and playing off meta builds, If you don't like him on URF just perma ban Jhin or don't bother playing URF. No, they can't while still building meta. Sure, if they go Righteous Glory, Shurelya's Reverie, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Zz'rot's Portal, Deadman's Plate, Boots of Swiftness, they can go super fast. But what else can they do, exactly? They aren't tanks, they don't have damage, and they don't have the kits to be bruisers. In URF, Jhin has been BUFFED to be able to achieve that same amount of movespeed without having to alter his build in any actual way.
: If it's about URF, you shouldn't be talking about balance at all. That's the whole point about URF.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xETuzj3,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-29T08:08:56.442+0000) > > If it's about URF, you shouldn't be talking about balance at all. That's the whole point about URF. Except that it's been brought UP from the normal movement speed steroid, which would be totally acceptable??
Rioter Comments
: Ok because a late game duo bot that also win lane is not broken or anything right?
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00070000000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-10-27T22:34:41.497+0000) > > Brand sucks, it's fact. If he was able to do what you say he wouldn't be one of the worst support in high elo only outclassing champion that are specifically balanced around pro play. or, and hear me out here, you don't understand how the game works, and Riot has been pushing tank/hook champs in high-elo for the last two years. Why the hell did you think Thresh/Naut had an almost FOURTY PERCENT PICK RATE BETWEEN THEM IN DIAMOND PLUS LAST PATCH, and that's been a CONSISTENT RANGE for the last year.
: Ok because a late game duo bot that also win lane is not broken or anything right?
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-25T10:07:07.800+0000) > > Ok because a late game duo bot that also win lane is not broken or anything right? I'd also like to point out that this isn't a rebuttal of anything about Brand being broken, but is instead a diversion, a red herring, away from the rather simple fact that you're unable to and have been unable to actually address any of the problems I've named with Brand because he's ostensibly broken for the reasons I've named, and only not ever seeing play because he sucks into the niche of champions riot has been pushing recently, and that you're making it probably because you've never made it out of Silver and have no god damn clue how the fucking game works.
: Ok because a late game duo bot that also win lane is not broken or anything right?
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-25T10:07:07.800+0000) > > Ok because a late game duo bot that also win lane is not broken or anything right? Even the most broken late-game duo bot in the game isn't effective if they've been poked 5-6 levels behind and the enemy adc/lane-bully mage support is stupidly far ahead. Do you just like not understand how the game works? If I'm not level 11 by the time they're level 15, there's not really anything I can do, even if I'm a late game carry, not even mentioning if I'm only effective as a snow-ball carry (Jinx, Twitch, Kog'Maw, etc.) who snow-ball early-mid game leads into massive, unstoppable playmaking potential in the late.
: You can, your win condition is not to win lane, just to not feed too much and you win.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00070000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T00:20:06.060+0000) > > You can, your win condition is not to win lane, just to not feed too much and you win. Wait sooooo the only way I win is to give up every lane advantage so I just don't die for free over and over... BUT HE'S NOT BROKEN OR ANYTHING RIGHT??
: Can we just bring up the chickens and wolves to match Krugs more closely? This invites pathing diversity while allowing jg some of its power back.
If in addition to this we brought krugs down to a slightly-below-mid-point between where they're at now and where chickens and wolves are now, and brought all non-buff camps up to meet that I could see this being workable. It increases the overall jungle exp, and allows for more diversity in pathing.
: There's so many champion in the game that are in a similar case. You early pick something safe and last pick counter pick. If you allowed enemy to pick Brand in a favorable matchup, you better have favorable matchup elsewhere, if no your team failed the draft pick.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-23T23:22:49.851+0000) > > There's so many champion in the game that are in a similar case. You early pick something safe and last pick counter pick. If you allowed enemy to pick Brand in a favorable matchup, you better have favorable matchup elsewhere, if no your team failed the draft pick. The game should not be decided in pick/ban without ANY actual chance to alter that outcome.
: Ok so you want to pick ADC + Enchanter a very strong late game combo and be able to fight Brand a lane bully in lane? So you pretty much want a free win and not give him any chance to win.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=000700000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-23T23:19:18.249+0000) > > Ok so you want to pick ADC + Enchanter a very strong late game combo and be able to fight Brand a lane bully in lane? So you pretty much want a free win and not give him any chance to win. No, I want to be able to pick ADC + Enchanter and be able to make it to late game.
: So a lot of players said they dont like drag RNG, so you added map RNG? Edit: I dont mean to be all negative, some of the changes (like removing shojin) are really good, this just made no sense to me
Removing Shojin is a good change, except for when they give the exact same problematic passive to a DRAGON BUFF going to your entire team LUL.
: Preseason 2020 Gameplay: Rise of the Elements
"We're removing Spear of Shojin, an item that only really gets built on like 4 champions consistently" "We're also adding a Dragon Buff that gives that exact same cooldown reducing effect that we think is too oppressive on certain champions TO YOUR WHOLE TEAM." "We are Riot Games. We are very smart."
: Then why are you complaining if he's only good in few games. Take the free win or ban/dodge if the draft is really too much in his favor.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=000200000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T23:09:29.121+0000) > > Then why are you complaining if he's only good in few games. Take the free win or ban/dodge if the draft is really too much in his favor. I'm "complaining" because of HOW good he is in the games where he gets to be that strong for that free. It's not healthy for the champion that EITHER he's totally useless, OR, and keep in mind this is wholly dependent on matchup, he's capable of literally winning the lane 2v1.
: XD you think enchanter don't win over Brand because they can't match his damage? A utility champ does less damage than a champion that only have damage. They just fuck Brand by decreasing his oppressiveness with point & click and castless spell until they outsustain him, then do what a conventional support does, bring utility to the team, peel adc and not die 8 time a game on average. Every patch Brand stand around #20 out of 25-27 on u.gg tier list diamond+ and it only get worse the higher elo. Most support below him are bad soloQ champ balanced around pro play.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T23:05:19.362+0000) > > XD you think enchanter don't win over Brand because they can't match his damage? A utility champ does less damage than a champion that only have damage. They just fuck Brand by decreasing his oppressiveness with point & click and castless spell until they outsustain him, then do what a conventional support does, bring utility to the team, peel adc and not die 8 time a game on average. Every patch Brand stand around #20 out of 25-27 on u.gg tier list diamond+ and it only get worse the higher elo. Most support below him are bad soloQ champ balanced around pro play. They can't match his damage, even if you include their sustain, and MOST enchanters don't have the ability to enable their ADC to fight him either, just because of his massive kill pressure. Also, yeah. Because in Diamond+ Thresh and Naut have a 40% pick rate between the two of them, and if you add in Pyke and Blitz, you have an almost 60% pick rate in Diamond+ of champions that he doesn't get to oppress for free in bot lane. Dumbass.
: Immobile, short ranged, skillshots with long cooldowns. His skills are kinda worthless if landed in the wrong order or misses 1 meaning he basically has to walk into the range of his e which is quite short to pull anything off, which is risky. That's mostly it. Try playing him a few times support, you'll understand. I much prefer the longer ranged mage supports even with slightly less kill potential and not as free scaling bc brand is just so incredibly unreliable and risky against decent players
> [{quoted}](name=Minimac2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-22T21:21:04.670+0000) > > Immobile, short ranged, skillshots with long cooldowns. His skills are kinda worthless if landed in the wrong order or misses 1 meaning he basically has to walk into the range of his e which is quite short to pull anything off, which is risky. That's mostly it. > Try playing him a few times support, you'll understand. I much prefer the longer ranged mage supports even with slightly less kill potential and not as free scaling bc brand is just so incredibly unreliable and risky against decent players Except for that his w isn't any more a "skill-shot" than a veigar stun LOL. He gets to be severely oppressive for effectively free into several matchups exactly because of that intense kill potential. If he's sitting in a bush, he can eqwr-dead you as an ADC before you're even able to put a ward in the bush. If he's sitting in front of the wave, you can't even walk up without having to dodge a full combo that will remove you from the lane even if he misses his one skill-shot.
: He could definitely see a rework but he's a very niche champion that don't get attention and there are higher priority outdated champion to rework like fiddle stick, volibear and many other. And joke on you Brand is already one of the worst support if you don't count off meta/troll like Yasuo support.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T20:50:26.419+0000) > > He could definitely see a rework but he's a very niche champion that don't get attention and there are higher priority outdated champion to rework like fiddle stick, volibear and many other. And joke on you Brand is already one of the worst support if you don't count off meta/troll like Yasuo support. Brand is actually really strong? He's just a niche pick that doesn't work in most of the bot lane meta right now. Thresh and Nautilus has a 38.2% pick rate between the two of them. But when he's into good matchups, he's oppressively strong.
: Do you realize everyone play hooker champion. Even enchanter are not that much popular and mage supp is only seen in low elo. Also, Brand lose to every engage, enchanter and mage with more range than him plus Zyra. That only leave Braum Taric and Than kench and few neutral matchup.... He just fuck over most ADC. So you look at adc + supp and not just supp to figure out who win.
> [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-22T20:43:45.424+0000) > > Do you realize everyone play hooker champion. Even enchanter are not that much popular and mage supp is only seen in low elo. Also, Brand lose to every engage, enchanter and mage with more range than him plus Zyra. That only leave Braum Taric and Than kench and few neutral matchup.... He just fuck over most ADC. So you look at adc + supp and not just supp to figure out who win. No, he doesn't lose to most enchanters because they don't have the damage to contest him, or the shields/heals for the most part, to allow their ADCs to. Also, looking at platinum+, by pick rate, of the top 10 supports, 5 of them are hook champions (Thresh, Nautilus, Pyke, Blitzcrank, Leona), 4 of them are enchanters (Nami, Rakan, Lulu, Janna) and one of them is a Mage support (Morgana). By WINRATE, in platinum+, you go from half of the top 10 supports to 3 hook champions (Blitzcrank, Nautilus, Leona), one of whom (Blitzcrank) has only had a jump in winrate recently because Riot is god fucking awful at game balance and somehow thought "buffing the main engage ability on a champion with 3.5 seconds of you don't get to do anything." was a good idea. You then have 5 Enchanters (Janna, Soraka, Bard, Nami, and Zilean), and two AP Carry Supports (Shaco and Zyra). People PICKING hook/tank supports doesn't make them GOOD as a champion class.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T07:26:13.754+0000) > > Wait, wait... So pointing out that the only class of supports he loses to are already the weakest group of supports in the game is demonstrating how "counterpicking" works? Do you understand how this game works dude? They are not the weakest... You are just delusional. You play Top and Bot and suck at both roles (Below 50% win ratio) and you dont play ranked at all. Try learning how to actually play this game instead of whining.
> [{quoted}](name=Jesi Oni,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T07:52:29.778+0000) > > They are not the weakest... You are just delusional. You play Top and Bot and suck at both roles (Below 50% win ratio) and you dont play ranked at all. Try learning how to actually play this game instead of whining. Below 50% because I'm trolling in half my games and/or learning new champs, and/or playing roles I don't ever play on main. I'm a support/mid main, and am not even level 20 on the account you're looking at. Really, dude. Who the fuck are you?
Viocie (NA)
: u should win ur lane WITH your support no matter who are u against. Ur support cant win the lane for you unless he is absolutely hard carrying u. If he is really countering u that u have no idea how to dodge his skill shot and lane against him, just ban him. Everyone has few champs that they cant handle with, chill.
> [{quoted}](name=Viocie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T22:43:58.347+0000) > > u should win ur lane WITH your support no matter who are u against. Ur support cant win the lane for you unless he is absolutely hard carrying u. If he is really countering u that u have no idea how to dodge his skill shot and lane against him, just ban him. Everyone has few champs that they cant handle with, chill. He has a single actual "skill shot", his q. And the hitbox is fucked enough that I hesitate to call it that. That comment that you're responding to was me responding to someone saying that yeah, he's kinda strong and oppressive, but you just have to play back and wait for mid or jungle to come bot and force the 3v2. He doesn't win the lane FOR his adc, he forces the enemy bot laners out of lane with very little that they can do to stop him.
: Windup of what? All Kalista’s take HOB so she really doesn’t have AA windup.
All of the two Kalista players in the game? Also, they either take HoB or they take LT. There aren't any other viable runes for her rn. As brand, you let her attack you 3 times, or sit in a bush while she's winding up on minions.
: That's the point of counterpick.
Wait, wait... So pointing out that the only class of supports he loses to are already the weakest group of supports in the game is demonstrating how "counterpicking" works? Do you understand how this game works dude?
: Because he is not viable in other role and there no way to change that because of how his kit work unless they rework him but that require more ressources than just number adjustment.
Then he needs a rework. If the options are "rework him and make him healthier for the game" or "continue letting him bully well over half of your common bot lane picks for free with next to no counterplay" or "lower his numbers until he's not playable literally ANYWHERE" do the one that MAKES HIM A GOOD, BALANCED CHAMPION, as opposed to an oppressive, counterless AP carry lane bully "support", or literally a troll pick.
: That's called counterpick. Brand beat most adc at every stage of the game but lose to a lot of support. If you want to fuck Brand by your own, pick Yasuo.
He loses to most engaging tank supports (braum, leona, blitz, naut, thresh, etc.) but in return those champs are actually hugely weaker than most other supports, including enchanters and healers and most OTHER AP-Carry support picks (Lux, Swain, Fiddle, etc.)
: As Kalista you can just walk up to him, then when he tries to stun you can Q and either horizontally or diagonally jump to dodge it. After just chase him till he’s under tower/ with his adc then E.
Except for that his e is point and click and if he holds his q for your windup, he then doesn't actually need to LAND a skillshot.
Viocie (NA)
: then it started wrong... he can do that when they are ahead but definitely not at start of the game. Winning the first few trades, or at least trade back is important because prob because your whole lanning phase will be like that until jg/mid come to break up the peace.
So on his own as a support he's so inherently oppressive in bot lane that it's required that someone else wins your lane for you, but he's not broken?
: Your problem is you think Brand is a support. He is played like a carry and just happen to go bot because this is where is kit work the best.
So why is an oppressive, lane bully AP Carry balanced to be played in the support role?
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-19T00:15:03.075+0000) > > Odd. Maybe that's a quality of life change they made sometime recently. I remember testing singed poison and I know it didn't as late as 9.12, and I think I maybe just assumed teemo poison was the same, but that's even more unfair if it doesn't proc on singed poison still, cuz it means that both of the ranged champions with inherent/passive DoTs have it proc properly, but Singed, who has it on an active ability, doesn't get it. Yeah, just checked to make sure in practice tool against an enemy bot, and can confirm for certain that Teemo E+R poison, Singed Q, and Cassiopeia Q+W poisons can all proc Dark Harvest by themselves. :) I can't find any sources on whether they've always worked like this, and can't find a patch that mentions bug fixing the interaction or anything, but can say that they at least work like that currently XD Was your test against an enemy bot/in a real match, or just on the practice tool dummies? I didn't test it on the dummies, so that could maybe explain something?
Edited the post to reflect this newfound knowledge. Thank you very much!
: Our Nunu was camping top lane (we had Renekton, they had Teemo) and not only did he not get a single kill from this, the Teemo got fairly fed.
The question you SHOULD be asking, then, is "why am I getting paired with useless inters", although I can definitely appreciate the mental required to think you did something wrong here.
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-19T00:15:03.075+0000) > > Odd. Maybe that's a quality of life change they made sometime recently. I remember testing singed poison and I know it didn't as late as 9.12, and I think I maybe just assumed teemo poison was the same, but that's even more unfair if it doesn't proc on singed poison still, cuz it means that both of the ranged champions with inherent/passive DoTs have it proc properly, but Singed, who has it on an active ability, doesn't get it. Yeah, just checked to make sure in practice tool against an enemy bot, and can confirm for certain that Teemo E+R poison, Singed Q, and Cassiopeia Q+W poisons can all proc Dark Harvest by themselves. :) I can't find any sources on whether they've always worked like this, and can't find a patch that mentions bug fixing the interaction or anything, but can say that they at least work like that currently XD Was your test against an enemy bot/in a real match, or just on the practice tool dummies? I didn't test it on the dummies, so that could maybe explain something?
I did it in a real match. I got a triple kill with my poison, and none of them gave me any stacks. Glad to know that's been fixed, though, and thank you for your effort, soldier!
CurS1VE (NA)
: i mean, his design isn't really the issue more so the actual ratios. They COULD tone down some of the early damage a lil tbh but at the same time they are trying to reward players for hitting those skill shots (WQ) and because Brand is insanely squishy and has no mobility it's like ehhh what do you really do? Well honestly the thing that makes the most sense to me (as someone who has played a lot of Brand over the years) is to just increase his Mana Costs. His Damage needs to be meaningful for sure considering he has more Skill shots then say a Malzahar, and Brand is already super slow so you can't nerf his move speed, he has no defense at all so really the only that could possibly be done is to increase the mana cost OR the CD to his abilities early and honestly I don't think that's a bad idea because Brand is always in a really weird place where even if he feeds his ASS off he can still be relevant just because his Kit is so strong in terms of AOE dmg. The downside would be it would make him even less viable then he already is and honestly he is barely able to maintain a decent % as Support. He is absolute Trash Mid and because he is so immobile there is no way he could ever go Top, so it's Bot for sure in some capacity unless Riot decided to Re-work him yet Again which I suppose could be a possibility. His Kit is pretty volatile and maybe that's what they want, idk tbh but it's not in a place where a "Good" Brand can dramatically do things better than a "Bad" one, it's really weird tbh IDK what to think
Brand's W is large enough that it's effectively not a skill-shot if you center it on your opponent. His Q is also longer than a caitlyn net gives you from the bush. His E and R are both point and click and if he can land the E-Q fuck whatever dodging you were attempting to do for the W. He's intensely oppressive compared to every other support in the game in a way that's wholly unhealthy, and I can't understand attempting to justify it.
Keiaga (NA)
: You realize that I know you're lying right? Your mmr is about silver, and the only people you play with are a bronze player and 2 other level 4s, who also have low mmrs. Judging by your winrates all being negative, your KDA being terrible, and the fact that you've all barely heard of the word "ward" you're no smurfs either. My guess is you've never played with a plat. But forgetting the fact that I'm dealing with an established liar for a second, Whatever type of mental gymnastics you want to try to use to explain WHY Yuumi is losing every game she's played in, it doesn't change the fact that they all have an established terrible performance rate and the lowest winrates in the game. You thinking that a champion is annoying or "gamebreakingly unfun to play against" doesn't mean that they're strong, or change the fact that you're spreading misinformation in an attempt to justify not being able to beat the weakest champs in the game.
Ooh, you're gonna have to show me how you found my MMR. I'd love to see that sometime. My winrates on this account are negative and my KDA terrible because I'm constantly paired WITH people who are actually level 16 and AGAINST 4-5 players who are mid Silver to low Gold, and am literally trolling in half of my games and/or learning new champions. I myself have never claimed to be some great success at the game. On my main account I am playing with people mid-plat to low-diamond consistently, because on my main I'm only ever playing with other people at that ELO who I play norms with. My own MMR, winrates, KDA or anything at all else is irrelevant to that fact. Hence an account where I'm playing on my own to see where I stand on my own. But forgetting the fact that I'm dealing with a self-righteous jackass Yuumi is losing a majority of her games because what she offers very few teams can actually capitalize on without more keenly feeling the loss of a fifth body. Regardless of the mental gymnastics I'm doing to justify her winrate, she's still an untargetable ranged poke champion who gives her allies free damage AND healing AND increased movement speed. Her kit is inherently problematic for the game, so they have to cause her numbers to fail. Remember when they hotfixed her days after her release because her numbers were so insanely underwhelming? The 22% win rate or something like in the first 24 hours? And how for patch after patch after that she was running circles around almost every other support in the game, until they finally nerfed her again? Champions shouldn't have kits that require abysmal numbers to not be mindnumbingly broken. Akali having a floundering winrate (finally) because she's seeing (finally) substantial nerfs to her numbers doesn't mean her kit isn't still inherently gamebreakingly strong. Champions shouldn't have kits that require riot to balance their numbers LOWER, otherwise they simply break the game. And besides that, Akali is built to be played perfectly by the top 4.5% of players. That's the way the champion is built, is that you sink hours and hours into perfecting your microgame, while already having the best of the best in reaction times, apm, and overall skill at the game. She's built around succeeding in high-elo play. And guess what we find every single time. Even when her numbers are causing her to flounder, she STILL wins more in Diamond+, and still wins even MORE in Masters+. Qiyana is just a pain in the ass mechanically, and her numbers have been balanced around a couple minor nuisances in her kit that break her in high-elo. Again, though, champions should not have kits that require their numbers to be so low they're unplayable otherwise they're mindnumbingly broken.
: I have actively dodged his W as Ashe from spawning it in the middle of me. It's not that hard. You just have to stop attacking entirely and move out of the way. Pretty much, always keep moving in lane. Use A-click to farm and don't stop moving. You'll find that you get hit by things a lot less that way, and it'll make you better against any support with skillshots, not just Brand.
Yeah, I'm sure. It's not that difficult of a skill shot to dodge, unless you're talking about dodging it consistently, see Zero Shingetsu's comment below. Now if your options weren't "run away from the scary fire man who's about to kill you before you can fully use up your Q active on him" or "let the scary fire man kill you before you can fully use your q active on him" do you think maybe you could've spent the time choosing to run away from the scary fire man to have idk, farmed or poked your enemy laner, or taken the tower, or shoved the wave and gone to take infernal drake with your jungler, or idk... Literally anything other than getting 70% of your health bar shit on for free by the scary fire man.
CurS1VE (NA)
: So the thing with Brand is he is super Volatile; he is literally the most feast or famine Mage in the Game regardless of lane. Ya some games he will pop off and be such a beast and other games he will INT all day! like literally most Brands have more of those Famine Games and less of the Feasts. It sucks when he does happen to hit that WQE (in whatever order) it does suck for sure in lane early cause at lv3 that basically forces you to back or to die (personally i just back) when he hits all. OFC when he sucks, he really really sucks, there's a reason why ppl don't play him as much and it's because there are more stable and just as capable Mages. Sorry you happen to run into the Brand that happen to pop off, just know it won't happen all the time, honestly it'll generally be the opposite
I don't disagree, but that's not a challenge of the intense, overly oppressive nature of the champ in what feels like a rather large majority of matchups, especially as a support, and is actually moreso a testament to Riot's inability to do champion design.
Viocie (NA)
: yes his dmg is pretty high when u get hit by his CC and all the skills. But his stun (ignite then Q) only stuns the first enemy, which can be easily dodged/countered if u stay behind the minion. Even his Q range is pretty long, he still need to be kinda forward to do the CC ( he is mid-range). You can trade back with him when he tries to poke you, dodge his skill and all he can do is getting hit by you. As an support, he cant build RoA which he is very squish. With 49.65% win rate ( according to u.gg) I think he is at a healthy position, not super op/bad. In your post I don't see u mentioned about support at all, my guess is that your support wasn't so helpful. The best timing to trade with him is the time he wants to poke you. Hard CC champs are effective against him. Mage support = nothing when u can get his hp low most of the time. Against brand, protective support : nami (hard CC, easy trade with her w, healing) and those hook champs Wish you best luck against him next time<3
Except for if he's literally sitting in front of the minion wave and poking us off of it.
: "spellthief's edge" and "it's brand" are the answers to your question(s) in no particular order
"It's brand" isn't an answer to a question posed, it's an excuse that doesn't deny or challenge his over-oppressiveness, but instead affirms it.
: > [{quoted}](name=NeekoNeekoNIEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:28:55.046+0000) > > He has inherent burn damage that procs dark harvest (which Singed DoT doesn't do and Teemo DoT doesn't do) Dunno about Singed, but as someone who takes Dark Harvest on Teemo, I can safely say that both his E and his R poisons do proc it. I'd also say it's a safe bet that Singed Q procs it too, for consistency. I don't have any comment on the rest of the post, but I figured I'd clear this up. :)
Odd. Maybe that's a quality of life change they made sometime recently. I remember testing singed poison and I know it didn't as late as 9.12, and I think I maybe just assumed teemo poison was the same, but that's even more unfair if it doesn't proc on singed poison still, cuz it means that both of the ranged champions with inherent/passive DoTs have it proc properly, but Singed, who has it on an active ability, doesn't get it.
Rαy (EUW)
: Agreed, Brand is pretty stupid. At least make his passive not do %HP damage so he doesn't kill EVERYone by smashing his head on his keyboard. This can't even get prevented, as he at least gets his point-and-click R out 99% of the time before dying. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Yeah but if he's support (his most common role) then it's not only unlikely but even improbable that you're playing a champion that can both survive that massive damage output AND punish him for fucking it up. Again, I can think of two champions who can successfully do that who are even semi-common bot lane picks, that's Caitlyn and Ezreal. Among the entire roster, I can think of maybe 7 more that COULD be played into a bottom lane against brand who can both consistently survive his massive burst damage and then punish him. Leona, who is a support, but has duo strats (Taric/Leona) that are kinda nuts, Gnar, because he's a ranged lane bully hyper-carry when he's not in mega form, Garen, cuz he'll cut the stun down by 75% and use his ms steroid to run you the fuck down, Xayah, only post 6 because of her ult, which isn't a reliable way to do it so she might as well not be on the list, Warwick, Vlad, Swain, just because of their pretty massive sustain and poke, + Warwick's DR on e and Vayne because if he doesn't start his w directly onto you, you can tumble out of it, theoretically.
: > [{quoted}](name=Brutalitops01,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QwOJaiE0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:53:32.076+0000) > > What's ok about that is the fact that it's 100% skillshots. Meaning that, if you're not bad, you can dodge it and then ignore him for around 12 seconds until his cooldowns come back up. I will admit his damage is a bit too high in my opinion, but you can play around it. It's kinda like Blitzcrank, Thresh, Nautilus, or Pyke. All 4 of them have really powerful hooks and repositioning tools that, if you get hit by, you're probably dead. It's just a matter of not getting hit. The average major league baseball player. You'd say he's not bad at baseball, right? I think we can agree on that much. Well, it's considered unachievable for a major league batter to bat .400 (40% success rate at bat) across a season. .300 is considered a very good average. This is because the average player will be at bat over 1,000 times per season. No matter how good someone is, the more you throw at them, the more chances they have to make a mistake. When Brand can sling his skillshots every 4-6 seconds without losing much mana, he's giving his opponent far too many opportunities to make a mistake. He can herd them where he wants them to be and, once cornered, hit them with a combo that's almost impossible to dodge. If he lands only two, the rest are guaranteed to hit because of his stun. I believe this is what OP is referring to. His ability to swarm the opposition with things to dodge with little tradeoff.
9NexterCz9 (EUNE)
: dude his abilites are not 100% skillshots, have you seen his E and R ? those are point and click, so 50% skillshots
Yeah, I wasn't pointing that out because the range on his E is significantly lower and his R only requires that you aren't a fucking idiot about the bounces.
: What's ok about that is the fact that it's 100% skillshots. Meaning that, if you're not bad, you can dodge it and then ignore him for around 12 seconds until his cooldowns come back up. I will admit his damage is a bit too high in my opinion, but you can play around it. It's kinda like Blitzcrank, Thresh, Nautilus, or Pyke. All 4 of them have really powerful hooks and repositioning tools that, if you get hit by, you're probably dead. It's just a matter of not getting hit.
Except as a Varus a Kalista a Jinx a Miss Fortune, a Kog'maw a Jhin, almost EVERY single ADC in the game, with two exceptions that I can think of offhand (Ezreal cuz of arcane shift being a free fucking flash and Caitlyn just cuz of her massive base aa range), even sitting under my tower, I can't approach the minion wave to auto attack them without him then being able to w-q-e me for 70% of my hp before any of his burn damage. He can sit in his minion wave and if I try to get close enough to farm, he can freely poke me out of lane. Even if I dodge 70% of his combos at me, that's 30% of the 15 second cd full combo for my entire health bar that I'm not dodging, and also time I'm spending dodging that could be spent farming. He can do that for free and if I try to fight him back on it, well he's already done 70% of my health bar and another 15% over the next 4 seconds, where even is the opportunity to fight back?
Keiaga (NA)
: I see youre level 16. What's your other accounts elo? Let's just use plat. Yuumi had the lowest win% by a wide margin at 41%. Qiyana has a winrate of 46% making her the 5th worst midlaner. Akalis is even lower at 44% making her the second worst. There's literally only one other champion in the game that's statistically easier to win against. Do some research instead of just being bad.
I play consistently with high plat to low diamond, but I don't care enough about ranked to bother with getting any higher than gold. Yuumi having a low win-rate because she often doesn't have the team to capitalize on the assets she offers (because there's a total of two team comps I can think of that Yuumi breaks, and only four that I can think of that she works well enough on to make up for the fact that she literally causes her teammates to be down an effective body most of the game, out of the 29! (8.841762e+30) total 5 man team combinations) is wholly unsurprising. That doesn't negate that she is an untargetable ranged poke support who gives her allies flat damage and a movement speed steroid. And yeah, I'd imagine Qiyana's mid lane win rate is low considering you have champions like Zoe, Veigar Ahri, Lux and Vel'Koz running around with an almost 20% pick rate between the five of them. Not even mentioning how difficult it is to actually learn her lmao. Akali having a low winrate AGAIN doesn't erase the fact that she's got three dashes, including a hard disengage and a hard reengage, a combat disengage and massive amounts of damage and is hugely abuseable at Diamond+ ELO. Akali's main problem is the same one that Fiora runs into, in that she does a singular thing really REALLY well and fails to do everything else that a champion needs to do. For Fiora it's dueling. For Akali it's single-target burst. She struggles to really do anything else. She's (finally) been nerfed a little bit, but since those nerfs her winrate has started climbing back up, and I'd also point out that if you look at Diamond+ (the threshold where people are actually considered "good") on 9.17 before her nerfs she immediately shoots up to a 48.65% winrate and an almost doubled pick rate. The common thread that all three of those champions have in common, though, is that they're gamebreakingly unfun to play against even when your team is 15 kills and 2 towers ahead and they're 0/7/1 with a single item.
: > [{quoted}](name=Brutalitops01,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N6Rypvbq,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:26:55.833+0000) > > Serious question. I just got out of a game in which the enemy Talon and Zac were sitting bot lane for the first 10 minutes. There was nothing we could do as they 4-man turret dove us on repeat every time we got back to lane. Our mid laner and jungler didn't rotate to help us at all. So, what can you do in this situation? We had plenty of vision, always saw them coming, but it didn't matter since they'd just ignore the turret if they got to it. I'm not even talking about trying to win the lane at that point, just to not feed and maybe come out of lane with halfway decent farm. >4 man bot >Jg/Mid sitting on their ass afk farming You ping, if they don't come, you recall and go farm the jungle and midlanes until they figure out that they should probably quit afk farming.
The only problem with this idea is that Riot would probably ban you for inting because they're just that kind of stupid.
: How do you do Anything in a 4v2 bot lane?
Your support goes mid and starts taking farm and you follow the jungler around and take his farm.
: Honest Question! Do anyone enjoy this champions?
It's called "psychopathy" and it's one of the only reasons you might actually play this game.
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NeekoNeekoNIEE

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