: The people asking for “ugly” female characters are getting old
> [{quoted}](name=youngdrago,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mNORGcTw,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-07T13:56:34.605+0000) > > Ever since Kai’sa released there’s been a rise in people asking riot to make female characters that are somewhat no appealing to the eye. The whole idea is that league need more diverse character instead of another good looking guy or girl. But I fail to see how they expect riot to go through with the request given how we treat characters like Illaio. She has a play rate or around 1.85% while Lux has a play rate of 4.44%. Why would riot even bother making a somewhat “ugly” Champ if you guys don’t even plan on playing her. Remember riot is a company and makes money off of skins. Why make a champ that no one will play of but skins for? If you’re gonna ask for a champion to add diversity at least play and buy the skins. This is the exact same problem with people complaining about unnecessary petitions for characters who have different sexual orientations cause we need “diversity” that majority of the boards also agree is stupid. If you want more ugly character than buy the skins of characters like illaio of Grages. There is no problem, you're just whining because you don't personally want it and you'd prefer them continue making waifu designs and I guess because you're uncomfortable with gay people. There is no problem with players wanting Riot to diversify their designs. Homogenization in designs is inherently boring and bad, even if normies brainlessly eat them up. Look at other games instead of just League. Ana from Overwatch is an old woman who most would not find attractive these days, but is the highest pick rate hero in the game. You bring up Illaoi and Taliyah's apparently bad play rates. There's no reason this couldn't be the case with an old lady character in League.
: no i thnik darius can win. damage wise yes yas outscales but in a fight darius can win if played well. edit: how many stacks nasus we talking aboout here?
> [{quoted}](name=strikingXV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dJwGNpuA,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-09T17:11:37.893+0000) > > no i thnik darius can win. damage wise yes yas outscales but in a fight darius can win if played well. > > edit: how many stacks nasus we talking aboout here? Nah, Yasuo can fairly easily avoid the outer rim of Darius' Q which cripples Darius' sustain in the fight, and Yasuo himself will have no problem sustaining through Darius' damage. I haven't fought him later on since thornmail became common but I doubt it changed things too much.
: > [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-02T07:13:19.621+0000) > > Her old passive worked better if she built mostly damage, her current one scales with the health she builds, meaning to get real usage out of it she has to build tank. > > Q doesn't feel the same because the old one scaled incredibly and could take off over half of an ADC's health in a single cast. Was it healthy? Not really, but you're just lying here friendo. Why lie? > > W gave attack damage as well as armour. Current one feels better, but who gives a shit? That isn't what I'm saying, work on your reading comprehension. > > E: Sure > > If you think that Poppy changing from arguably the hardest-scaling melee carry in the game who dealt absurd damage and could destroy teams into a CC tank doesn't constitute as a role change then you're just wrong. Like, there can be no argument here. Did you ever actually play old Poppy? She rushed Triforce and then built nearly full damage, ulted the most worthless piece of shit on the enemy team, and then killed the enemy team, assuming she was six-slotted. New Poppy bullies lane and tries to snowball but her damage falls off and she focuses on CCing the enemy in team fights for her team to kill them. If she tries to roll up on any decent duelist late game she will be unceremoniously killed. > > Sorry buddy, but you just don't know what you're talking about. So nothing was to be missed on her Q, as it was just a auto. The passive which is an enchanced auto. IF we bring back the scaling from her old kit. But We Delete Old move all the time, like Ezreal W. This was Changed a few times, I'm taking it as it is now. and his Kit was minorly adjusted for it. Is there anything that you missed we shouldn't have deleted. Like The heal on his W? Or things like Alistar. Would you want a duplicated Alistar because his E and passive were swapped. P,Q,W,E imo theyre exactly like Old poppy. Maybe shifted around a bit here and there. The only thing that is missing IS her R, and the rest got a shift in power, adjustments. The shift in power was from Single target damage, to Multi target damage, to help her in lane, to help her in team fights. The old poppy was just a enhance minion. Poppy Wasnt deleted, There isnt anything to be missed aside from the Ult and maybe Scalings. However. I cannot say the same for other certain champions. Like Aatrox. Old Aatrox is deleted and replaced with a different champion. I'll agree with you there. But. {{champion:78}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:83}} They were very great reworks, and I felt like they didn't leave anything during the rework. They were just given new stuff and nerfed the old. I cant say the same for {{champion:266}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:6}} is the special case. a lot was removed, however it feels like a better version of the old kit. . and changed in some regards.
> [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:20:05.967+0000) > > But We Delete Old move all the time, like Ezreal W. This was Changed a few times, I'm taking it as it is now. and his Kit was minorly adjusted for it. Is there anything that you missed we shouldn't have deleted. Like The heal on his W? > > Or things like Alistar. Would you want a duplicated Alistar because his E and passive were swapped. What are you even talking about here? Ezreal is still a mobile skillshot ADC who pokes down enemies and Alistar is still a supportive CC tank. Their roles and identities are intact, unlike Poppy's, so what is even the comparison? Learn how to think. > P,Q,W,E imo theyre exactly like Old poppy. This isn't an opinion, you're just wrong, and if you think her roles being completely reversed from high damage melee carry to CC tank you're wrong, period, not up for discussion. What about this are you not getting? > Maybe shifted around a bit here and there. The only thing that is missing IS her R, and the rest got a shift in power, adjustments. The shift in power was from Single target damage, to Multi target damage, to help her in lane, to help her in team fights. The old poppy was just a enhance minion. Poppy Wasnt deleted, There isnt anything to be missed aside from the Ult and maybe Scalings. The shift was from damage and scaling to durability, AOE, and utility. The old Poppy was actually considerably stronger than current Poppy in team fights, but only late game where she could quickly kill enemy champions after ulting the most useless person on the enemy team. Why are you even talking about old Poppy if you don't know anything about her?
: Back at you. If they're so popular already, that puts a hole in your claim that all the votes come from people who already like them. And severely hurts your point that reworks screw people who like the champions. If it were true, people would know not to vote for champs they like for reworks. No, she wasn't. Not sure what game you were playing, but she was none of those things. And you just completely ignored where I pointed out everything that made the old Poppy generic as well as everything that makes the new Poppy unique. You're just ignoring the facts. Plus, to claim people weren't using it as intended when, if that was their intention, they could have made it so she can only damage that enemy, is stretching way too far. They allowed it because that was one of the intended purposes. Mordekaiser's ultimate lacks _that_ purpose. I get that you don't like reworks. That you like outdated, more generic kits. But to claim that that's not what they are is to ignore reality.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-02T10:09:27.055+0000) > > Back at you. If they're so popular already, that puts a hole in your claim that all the votes come from people who already like them. How does me pointing out that the champions picked got the most votes due to being more popular take away from the claim that the votes came from people who like them? Are you serious? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They are relatively popular, hence why they got picked, since those people playing them obviously tend to like the champions. >And severely hurts your point that reworks screw people who like the champions. If it were true, people would know not to vote for champs they like for reworks. No it doesn't, not when: A. Those people could simply be stupid and not know what they're doing by voting. B. Not every rework is bad in the way I've said, pay attention to this point that you clumsily missed because it will be coming back later and make a real big fool of you. > No, she wasn't. Not sure what game you were playing, but she was none of those things. And you just completely ignored where I pointed out everything that made the old Poppy generic as well as everything that makes the new Poppy unique. You're just ignoring the facts. Nope, you're just ignorant if you believe old Poppy was not a hard-scaling carry. Let's go with one example of something I said that is laughably and blatantly true: That Poppy is tankier than Tryndamere without ults. Tryndamere has how many tank steroids without his ultimate? Poppy had how many now? Oh that's right, two. > Plus, to claim people weren't using it as intended when, if that was their intention, they could have made it so she can only damage that enemy, is stretching way too far. They allowed it because that was one of the intended purposes. Mordekaiser's ultimate lacks _that_ purpose. "ACTIVE: Poppy focuses the target enemy champion for the next few seconds, dealing them increased damage and becoming immune to all effects not originating from her target for the duration." Nah, it was intended as a dueling tool. You're wrong bud. > I get that you don't like reworks. Cite where I stated I dislike all reworks. =) > That you like outdated, more generic kits. Cite where I stated this as well. > But to claim that that's not what they are is to ignore reality. Cite where I claimed that as well. =) That's what I mean when I say you can't think with any nuance. I play the Irelia rework. I play the Fiora rework. I play the Yorick rework. I play the Warwick rework. What do all of these reworks have in common? They didn't change the champion's role completely. Weird, right?
: In a 1v1 deadmatch {{champion:122}} wins for sure
> [{quoted}](name=YamiBakura322,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dJwGNpuA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-01T16:50:43.862+0000) > > In a 1v1 deadmatch {{champion:122}} wins for sure Nope, Yasuo outscales Darius' damage in general and doesn't need to ramp up with five separate attacks either. {{champion:23}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} These five can for sure, with the only one I'm not 100% positive about being Fiora. The other four do so easily.
: They're for people who like the general theme of the champion but not their outdated/bug-riddled/unbalanceable kit. And every other player who doesn't look at the champion because every part of the champion in its current state is unappealing to them. You may not care about Voli and Fiddle getting reworked, but it's silly to say only current players care... especially this time, when there was a vote to prove other people do, too. If they think like me, they wanna see the reworks because they will make the characters more appealing to current non-players. Old Poppy was an auto-attacking champion who didn't actually have the scaling or mobility to be a hypercarry. She was essentially a worse Tryndamere. The only thing different about her ult is that if the enemies had a mage support, you could die to them, unlike Tryndamere. She was as generic as generic gets, and wasn't even good at it. The one thing that was unique to Poppy, Heroic Charge, they kept. And the new kit they gave her is fantastic. You wanna rag on her for being generic despite the facts that she has the _only_ dash interrupt in the game, one of only _two_ ranged attacks that act entirely like a melee attack, and the _COOLEST_ ultimate in the game? Nice try. I played old Poppy too, but the new one is so much better I can't even begin to miss her old, ugly version. **** I can level with you on them adding in mechanics that are similar to existing ones, but better, though. But Mord's ult is definitely not akin to Poppy's old one. Hers was most often used on a person she _didn't_ plan on going after, and killing their ally while invincible. Plus, at the time of Poppy's rework they didn't have the means to make an ult like Mord's. If you watched the Sylas video, they actually learned quite a lot about interactions while coding him that they never knew before. And I'm sure that helped with programming Mord's ultimate. Rather than old Poppy, though, it's more like his new ult is the apex of Camille's and Xin's. But it wouldn't very well fit thematically for either of them. For actually taking another player to another plain of existence, it'd have to be a ghost, demon, or cosmic character.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-02T06:13:31.295+0000) > > They're for people who like the general theme of the champion but not their outdated/bug-riddled/unbalanceable kit. And every other player who doesn't look at the champion because every part of the champion in its current state is unappealing to them. > > You may not care about Voli and Fiddle getting reworked, but it's silly to say only current players care... especially this time, when there was a vote to prove other people do, too. If they think like me, they wanna see the reworks because they will make the characters more appealing to current non-players. Do you think it's a coincidence that the two champions that won, Fiddle and Voli, are the ones with the highest play rates? Do you have anything backing your assertion that a substantial amount of the votes come from people who don't play them? > Old Poppy was an auto-attacking champion who didn't actually have the scaling or mobility to be a hypercarry. She was essentially a worse Tryndamere. The only thing different about her ult is that if the enemies had a mage support, you could die to them, unlike Tryndamere. She was as generic as generic gets, and wasn't even good at it. She was the hardest-scaling melee carry with the game with better sticking power than Tryndamere who was much harder to peel and, frankly, was much tankier even without her ult due to her passive, which was actually the most broken part of her kit. But who cares? What did you say that disproves anything I said? > The one thing that was unique to Poppy, Heroic Charge, they kept. And the new kit they gave her is fantastic. You wanna rag on her for being generic despite the facts that she has the _only_ dash interrupt in the game, one of only _two_ ranged attacks that act entirely like a melee attack, and the _COOLEST_ ultimate in the game? Nice try. I played old Poppy too, but the new one is so much better I can't even begin to miss her old, ugly version. > **** No, I rag on her because she is just another in a long line of CC tanks when she used to be a carry. If you like new Poppy that's fine, but if you think she should have been created you're wrong my man. Old Poppy was quite possibly the most cancer champion in the game and needed a rework, but does that mean she needed to have her entire role changed? Something as fundamental as her basic function, going from carry to tank? You people can't think with any nuance, you read my posts and think I'm saying old Poppy was healthier or even more fun than new Poppy or some shit, when what I'm actually saying is that regardless of old kit health and fun versus new kit health and fun, the old Poppy had the BASIC IDENTITY of a late game carry, and new Poppy's BASIC IDENTITY is that of a lane bully tank, and this is wrong. > I can level with you on them adding in mechanics that are similar to existing ones, but better, though. But Mord's ult is definitely not akin to Poppy's old one. Hers was most often used on a person she _didn't_ plan on going after, and killing their ally while invincible. What a monumentally poorly-thought out statement. Old Poppy's ult was indeed not used on her target. Can you figure out why that is? It's because her ult was not being used like it was intended. Wow. That was hard to figure out, huh? Do you think that the extra damage she did to her ult target was there for fun? Hence why new Mordekaiser's is HEALTHIER, because it singles out one person for him to fuck up and makes it so people can't stop him, but doesn't let him kill the entire enemy team by making him immune to everyone else. > Plus, at the time of Poppy's rework they didn't have the means to make an ult like Mord's. If you watched the Sylas video, they actually learned quite a lot about interactions while coding him that they never knew before. And I'm sure that helped with programming Mord's ultimate. You're probably right, which actually just says poorly of Riot.
: > [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-02T05:16:52.734+0000) > > Then give her a different ult, or update it. Don't completely change the role of the champion. I said I missed the ult, not the Ult was the big issue. Her kit is exactly the same thing aside her ult really. So, lets break it down. P: Old Poppy made her tanky via damage reduction when she was low, Her new passive Makes a auto ranged that gives her a shield. (Overall- So no invisible stat, but something thats visable to the player. So. Feels better) Q: Old: Enchanced auto attack. New: Skill shot that helps her in lane wave clear. (Overall- Feels the same, but just Better for her to farm and harass) W: Old Gave stats and movement speed New Gives Stats, Knocks up enemy champions if they dash, And giving her movement speed (New is just better version, Feels the same ) E: Legit same move R: They gave her A new ULT. Old: ults target. Makes a Duel where poppy is immune to damage from any other champion and deals bonus damage to that champion New: Big Knock back/Up (Did they change the role of the champion?... My thoughts no.)
> [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-06-02T05:57:12.249+0000) > > I said I missed the ult, not the Ult was the big issue. > Her kit is exactly the same thing aside her ult really. > > So, lets break it down. > > P: Old Poppy made her tanky via damage reduction when she was low, Her new passive Makes a auto ranged that gives her a shield. > (Overall- So no invisible stat, but something thats visable to the player. So. Feels better) > Q: Old: Enchanced auto attack. New: Skill shot that helps her in lane wave clear. > (Overall- Feels the same, but just Better for her to farm and harass) > W: Old Gave stats and movement speed New Gives Stats, Knocks up enemy champions if they dash, And giving her movement speed > (New is just better version, Feels the same ) > E: Legit same move > R: They gave her A new ULT. > Old: ults target. Makes a Duel where poppy is immune to damage from any other champion and deals bonus damage to that champion > New: Big Knock back/Up > (Did they change the role of the champion?... My thoughts no.) Her old passive worked better if she built mostly damage, her current one scales with the health she builds, meaning to get real usage out of it she has to build tank. Q doesn't feel the same because the old one scaled incredibly and could take off over half of an ADC's health in a single cast. Was it healthy? Not really, but you're just lying here friendo. Why lie? W gave attack damage as well as armour. Current one feels better, but who gives a shit? That isn't what I'm saying, work on your reading comprehension. E: Sure If you think that Poppy changing from arguably the hardest-scaling melee carry in the game who dealt absurd damage and could destroy teams into a CC tank doesn't constitute as a role change then you're just wrong. Like, there can be no argument here. Did you ever actually play old Poppy? She rushed Triforce and then built nearly full damage, ulted the most worthless piece of shit on the enemy team, and then killed the enemy team, assuming she was six-slotted. New Poppy bullies lane and tries to snowball but her damage falls off and she focuses on CCing the enemy in team fights for her team to kill them. If she tries to roll up on any decent duelist late game she will be unceremoniously killed. Sorry buddy, but you just don't know what you're talking about.
: That's pretty much what they did babe. She plays very similar to prior
> [{quoted}](name=NaSingularity,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-02T05:56:38.547+0000) > > That's pretty much what they did babe. She plays very similar to prior She used to be a damage-dealing carry and now she's a CC tank, but other than her role being the exact opposite of what it used to be yeah I guess she plays exactly the same.
: I used to main Old Galio. It was at some point where it was me who was carrying a game and the enemy ADC. And they built a {{item:3140}}. And after that we lost the game. It felt awful and I dropped the champion after that. I'm thankful Galio is no longer a Flash Ult Bot. Currently Galio, Urgot and Akali, While Messy they are still more balanced I found. Urgot is a Crab Tank, and he feels like one, the old one felt pretty awful. however, lets say Who cares if they feel more polished, more Interesting. We still are deleting the messy hot garbage they are. Its still a missing champion, not a good one but one none the less. And Because they were hot trash, they still had a Charm to it. I played a lot of Pre-Rework GP, Yorick, Poppy, Galio, Swain, Urgot(Duing the time he was being used as an Mid-Laner) and Taric. (not Irelia, Kayle, Aatrox, Evelyn, Warwick, Nunu, akali. I Forget some. I do miss the silly shenanigans you do with Old Poppy ult. But I think its for the better for the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-02T05:11:16.921+0000) > > I do miss the silly shenanigans you do with Old Poppy ult. But I think its for the better for the game. Then give her a different ult, or update it. Don't completely change the role of the champion.
: Simple answer: because they are often so outdated that the way they play doesn't fit in the game. That, or they have a kit that can't be balanced around its core mechanic. I've said this to other people on other threads, but reworks are not for the people who _like_ the outdated/bug-riddled/unbalanceable champions they're based on. And this Mord is far more akin to the REAL Mordekaiser, not this sham that you newer players have always known.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UVdvGyjl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-02T05:06:28.210+0000) > > Simple answer: because they are often so outdated that the way they play doesn't fit in the game. That, or they have a kit that can't be balanced around its core mechanic. > > I've said this to other people on other threads, but reworks are not for the people who _like_ the outdated/bug-riddled/unbalanceable champions they're based on. > > And this Mord is far more akin to the REAL Mordekaiser, not this sham that you newer players have always known. Then who are they for? The vast majority of the playerbase couldn't give a flying shit about whether or not any given champion is reworked. Do you think I give a shit that Volibear and Fiddlesticks are getting reworked? No, the only people who do are Voli and Fiddle players, be they dedicated OTPs or people who play them every now and then. And no, that shit will not fly. Champions are reworked for a reason, and as someone who played old!Poppy her old passive and ult at bare minimum needed to either go or be heavily retooled. What they _didn't_ need to do is take Poppy, one of the few melee hypercarries in the game, and turn her into a generic lane bully CC tank. Which is what they did. And now Mordekaiser is getting a healthier variation on her old ultimate which she could have gotten. Yippee.
: You're not, though. You have no idea what you're fucking talking about and you're derailing this thread with your bullshit.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-29T11:04:35.876+0000) > > You're not, though. You have no idea what you're fucking talking about and you're derailing this thread with your bullshit. How am I derailing this thread by actually talking about the (terrible) new ability names? If anything I should be commended for being willing to argue my case, as opposed to the people silently downvoting me while being too scared to make a case for why I'm wrong.
: Oh so you're calling people who don't agree with you stupid now? Real mature. Its the names of a character's abilities in a video game. Grow up. Holy shit.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-05-29T11:03:51.784+0000) > > Oh so you're calling people who don't agree with you stupid now? Real mature. > > Its the names of a character's abilities in a video game. Grow up. Holy shit. Point out where I called anyone stupid my friend.
: They always bring in mains to playtest their champion when they're getting a rework, because they trust their feeback more than someone who rarely if ever plays those champions. You have 19 games as Morde logged on this account, none of them recently. Explain to me how you know better than someone who has probably played hundreds if not thousands of games as Morde, and understands his thematic and character more than you. The whole "Morde's a metal man and has metal references" doesn't fit anymore. He was an older champion that didn't really fit into the current Runeterra thematically. They wanted his ability names to reflect his power in that world and universe, not be a reference to ours. I don't see how that's so hard for you to understand.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-29T11:01:41.144+0000) > > They always bring in mains to playtest their champion when they're getting a rework, because they trust their feeback more than someone who rarely if ever plays those champions. > > You have 19 games as Morde logged on this account, none of them recently. Explain to me how you know better than someone who has probably played hundreds if not thousands of games as Morde, and understands his thematic and character more than you. > > The whole "Morde's a metal man and has metal references" doesn't fit anymore. He was an older champion that didn't really fit into the current Runeterra thematically. They wanted his ability names to reflect his power in that world and universe, not be a reference to ours. I don't see how that's so hard for you to understand. More logical fallacies, nothing but appeals to authority over and over again without actually talking about the (terrible) renames to his abilities except for what you've mindlessly parroted after reading a Rioter say it. Obliteate does not fit into current Runeterra any more than Mace of Spades did, it is considerably more generic, actually describes the ability more inadequately than Mace of Spades did, and yes, does not benefit from iconic status like the old ability name did. It is strictly worse and no amount of Riot apologist rhetoric will convince me otherwise. Try to actually defend the new names on their own merits next time.
: the character was modeled around real life things instead of the world of runeterra. so, riot choose to expand their own lore instead of double downing on it.
> [{quoted}](name=XJ99999999999999,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YQykazIz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-29T02:52:33.093+0000) > > the character was modeled around real life things instead of the world of runeterra. so, riot choose to expand their own lore instead of double downing on it. Right, which they did by giving his Q the ever-creative and lore-expending name "Obliterate" lmao.
: Mordekaiser looks amazing but wheres the Metal references?!
I think where people who aren't as intellectually gifted as myself are slipping is that they are assuming that having complaints about this one aspect of the rework in any way denigrates the rework as a whole, when that is not the case. His aesthetic and feel look great, and his abilities also fit the character very well, with my only concern being the balancing of his ult. As a whole the rework looks good. But the new ability names are cringe and boring.
: And who exactly are you to judge what a true Morde main/lover thinks is right?
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-28T07:06:44.754+0000) > > And who exactly are you to judge what a true Morde main/lover thinks is right? Someone with taste who doesn't make really terrible appeal to authority arguments like you are doing right now (your appeal to authority is particularly terrible because it assumes that someone who happens to play Mordekaiser has any credibility concerning something like good naming conventions for abilities).
: Mordekaiser looks amazing but wheres the Metal references?!
Lot of people downvoting my posts, but no one confident enough in their own ability to argue why I'm wrong, one might think that if you can't come up with a reason why your position is correct that maybe you don't deserve to hold it? Food for thought, and I'm still right, no matter how many people cower toward my posts and downvote them. I'm not surprised Riot mChao didn't have the steel to respond to me though. Rioters rarely do.
: MM is one of the most iconic Morde mains, so iconic that he was referenced in his rework's initial teaser. He even got invited by Riot to play test new Morde and gave them suggestions on how to improve him, which they clearly listened to. He's not defending those names. He's the one that gave those abilities their names.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-28T06:31:18.259+0000) > > MM is one of the most iconic Morde mains, so iconic that he was referenced in his rework's initial teaser. He even got invited by Riot to play test new Morde and gave them suggestions on how to improve him, which they clearly listened to. He's not defending those names. He's the one that gave those abilities their names. Proof that fans are the worst people to ask when you want to do work on a champion.
: Jup, I actually suggested that W and R name! W is named after that particular Disturbed song and his R is a shortened version of Judas Priest's "Beyond the Realms of Death"! They just fit!
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-28T01:13:24.482+0000) > > Jup, I actually suggested that W and R name! > W is named after that particular Disturbed song and his R is a shortened version of Judas Priest's "Beyond the Realms of Death"! > > They just fit! Seeing you so thirsty for a rework to your champion that you'd try to defend these generic ass names is unbecoming.
: Hey! Great question. While I was working on Morde, the first passes on the ability names were all literal Metal song titles. However, our creative leads ultimately made the tough call (that I totally agree with) that naming abilities strictly real world song titles limited fully expressing Mordekaiser’s powers more accurately, both for gameplay and for his place in Runeterra. Ultimately, we made the call to give Mordekaiser’s abilities names that captured his powers and indomitable strength as an unstoppable warlord over exact song titles - but we made sure to infuse his abilities with as much metal and spirit of the original Morde as possible. We wanted Morde to be metal and powerful - but to do so in a way more centered on his place in Runeterra, rather than our modern day world, while still preserving his Metal Soul and energy.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot mChao,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fiHZaFVx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-27T23:51:39.228+0000) > > Hey! Great question. > > While I was working on Morde, the first passes on the ability names were all literal Metal song titles. However, our creative leads ultimately made the tough call (that I totally agree with) that naming abilities strictly real world song titles limited fully expressing Mordekaiser’s powers more accurately, both for gameplay and for his place in Runeterra. Ultimately, we made the call to give Mordekaiser’s abilities names that captured his powers and indomitable strength as an unstoppable warlord over exact song titles - but we made sure to infuse his abilities with as much metal and spirit of the original Morde as possible. > > We wanted Morde to be metal and powerful - but to do so in a way more centered on his place in Runeterra, rather than our modern day world, while still preserving his Metal Soul and energy. So instead you gave him a bunch of really generic and shitty names huh? "Obliterate" better captures the theme of Mordekaiser and more accurately describes hitting someone with his mace than "Mace of Spades"? No, it doesn't. To "obliterate" something is to "remove utterly from recognition or memory" or to completely remove something from existence. In a very general way you can say that every damage ability if it kills an enemy can "obliterate" them, but it doesn't actually describe the mechanics of the ability itself. Whereas "Mace of Spades" actually describes the weapon he is utilizing for the attack, namely, his mace. Nah man, the new names are boring and a mistake.
: Yasuo getting placed out of turret range is a gameplay inconsistency.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EuBnR1aH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:24:56.950+0000) > > If Lee Sin lands a Q on an enemy under their turret he gets placed in turret range. > > If Diana presses R on an enemy under their turret she gets placed under the enemy turret. > > If Irelia presses Q on an enemy under their turret she gets placed in turret range. > > Yasuo is breaking game consistency by not getting placed in turret range when he presses R after an enemy gets knocked up under their turret. > > So either make Diana, Lee and Irelia not placed under the turret or make Yasuo get placed under the turret for gameplay consistency. Diana, Lee, and Irelia don't blink into a self-suppression for a full second, they don't have to sit there and take free damage that is unavoidable. I'm not even opposed to arguments that the safety net shouldn't exist, but your own argument is a poor false-equivalence.
: For the love of god remove Riven's stun and knockup
> [{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=if6d9NcG,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-25T05:08:23.822+0000) > > She has a more consistent and reliable shield than supports That only shields, and she can only use it on herself. False equivalence. > Gains more from CDR than mages/assassins CDR is not a mage/assassin stat. It is the most universal stat in the game. Every champion likes CDR except for Yasuo. It's better on Riven than most, but she's not the only champion who typically wants to cap it. > Has more steroids than hypercarries She has two. {{champion:11}} : 3, until recently had 4. {{champion:67}} : At least 2, arguably 3 if Q counts. {{champion:96}} : 3 {{champion:10}} : Like 5 considering all her passive does, holy shit. {{champion:23}} : 2 {{champion:145}} : 2 > More CC than most tanks She has two, totaling up to about 1.5 seconds, if that. Braum's passive alone stuns for longer than her stun and knockup. You're just being ridiculous here, and are upset that a Riven player much better than you beat you. > A freaking execute that's easier and up far more than most juggernauts Executes are not a juggernaut ability lol wtf. Like four have them, and all but Urgot's are point and click, and all but Volibear's are REAL executes, where if you are below a certain level of health you're just going to die and no amount of armour will stop it. Riven's has a cap.
: > [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q8hpwkqB,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-21T07:40:38.709+0000) > > Buddy, you main Gangplank. > > You have point and click poke from a longer range than Yasuo's that, get this, does literally the exact same damage (unless they crit, in which case Gangplank's does MORE), and if you can use your barrels well does even more damage and is even longer range. Yasuo's has a shorter cooldown, but he exposes himself far more and can actually, you know, miss it. On a very high CD and shocker, it costs 60 Mana. Where is Yasuos mana cost? > (unless they crit, in which case Gangplank's does MORE), And GP needs to invest MORE money into less Crit, yes. > and if you can use your barrels well does even more damage and is even longer range. Everyone who plays ranged and has above 4 IQ can destory it, unless its a phantom barrel which is incredibly hard and risky to pull of. > Yasuo's has a shorter cooldown, Like I can miss my barrels and have to wait 15 seconds with 45 CDR to get three back. How much CDR does Yasuo build? > but he exposes himself far more And has a windwall that blocks everything, has two shields if he procs his Ult and insane healing. GP builds glass cannon to stay relevant and yes, he can escape one CC spell (that isn't a knock up, you know, like Yasuo Q), but he gets blown up incredibly easy. Oh and did I mentioned Yasuo can deny GPs Q and thus deny his combos? Don't speak about GP if you don't have a clue, lmao.
> [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q8hpwkqB,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-21T07:45:58.340+0000) > > On a very high CD I'm gonna be honest, I stopped reading. If you think five seconds without CDR is a "very high cooldown" you are completely delusional and not worth talking to. You don't seem to know very much about the champion you play, I don't know why anyone would expect you to know about anyone else's.
: > [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q8hpwkqB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-21T06:48:01.762+0000) > > Yasuo poke requires 2 hits and is rather telegraphed though. No, he just needs to press Q. If you are Melee and want to farm you can't avoid it.
> [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q8hpwkqB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-21T06:51:08.796+0000) > > No, he just needs to press Q. > If you are Melee and want to farm you can't avoid it. Buddy, you main Gangplank. You have point and click poke from a longer range than Yasuo's that, get this, does literally the exact same damage (unless they crit, in which case Gangplank's does MORE), and if you can use your barrels well does even more damage and is even longer range. Yasuo's has a shorter cooldown, but he exposes himself far more and can actually, you know, miss it.
: Why does armor feel useless
> [{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MTQZ0a6k,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-18T15:28:47.945+0000) > > I was playing some games on the pbe as malphite and I was armor stacking. I had something like 450 armor and was against and aatrox. Now I was told that armor counters aatrox but he was somehow still deleteing me when I was a malphite with 450 armor. The only item he had was cleaver and even with its 24% armor shrewd I still feel like I shouldn’t get deleted. A similar thing happens earlier as well where I was malphite again and had around 600 armor and a Rengar with just a duskable was deleteing me. Duskblade gives 21 lethality, that’s no where near enough to allow him to delete me. Why does armor feel so weak? > > The only thing I can think of for aatrox was that he had Conq but that still doesn’t explain the Rengar. Link the matches.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: What if Tryndamere became uncontrolable during his ult
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p3xGjmxh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-19T00:00:29.039+0000) > > I saw this in dota2 where they reworked a hero to have a tryndamere ult which seems to be healthier than what we have to me > > Quote: > > "Troll Warlord unleashes a powerful battle trance, forcing him to continuously attack the closest enemy unit within 900 range, prioritizing heroes. Damage does not kill you during this mode. Grants you bonus lifesteal, attack speed and movement speed. Applies a Basic Dispel. (= QSS). > > Thoughts? Sure, if you also let Tryndamere root people he attacks, make him ranged, give him the lifesteal, attack speed, and movement speed, and let his attack speed cap out with few attack speed items, which are what enable Troll Warlord to have an ult that does that.
Big Tick (EUW)
: Ziggs takes more skill to play than zed or yasuo. Ever tried playing a squishy skillshot reliant mage into certainlyT's designs? yeah, very easy.
> [{quoted}](name=dracocrash,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qZkrZn0t,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-19T00:27:39.185+0000) > > Ziggs takes more skill to play than zed or yasuo. He really doesn't buddy, but keep telling yourself that to make yourself feel justified in hating on champions who just happen to counter your pick. Thread is dumb, but don't say dumb things in response.
: If he doesnt handle ganks well he isnt using his e and w
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8avcvWez,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-18T16:51:11.572+0000) > > If he doesnt handle ganks well he isnt using his e and w Have you considered that you might just be bad? That maybe there's a reason why you've been in bronze since season four? I don't understand the arrogance in assuming you know what you're talking about when, if you did, you wouldn't be among the lowest brackets of the game.
: If seeing a champion makes you groan, they are OP or broken
> [{quoted}](name=DarkinPrime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8avcvWez,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-17T16:03:34.644+0000) > > Lets be honest. Seriously. > > When you see say, {{champion:80}} you think, okay he might be hard in lane but he can fall off later. > > When you see {{champion:92}} you think, okay shes annoying but pretty easy to burst down > > When you see {{champion:11}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:122}} you go, okay...uh they can get wrecked early and then still manage to slaughter your team while being very hard to kill. Shit. You KNOW they can become a problem do to they nature of their kits. Even if YOU play against them properly in lane, that has NOTHING to do with the chance of them getting into a team fight later and then ulting and killing everyone despite being behind. And you can't control that, because you can't control the rest of the team. > > I feel like everyone just justifies certain champions because they can A)be countered or have counterplay and B) might not do as well at top level of play. > > But the bulk of the game is not top level play. And any champions can be countered or have counterplay--that doesn't mean they aren't too strong or their kit isnt obnoxious. Some kits have an inherent unfairness in that. more so than other champions, their ability to recover is much higher than other champions due to how they can capitalize in team fights even when behind. The only champion in that list that makes me groan is Pantheon.
123girr (NA)
: What to Build Against True Damage and % Health?
> [{quoted}](name=123girr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3z9E7XbI,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-06T07:26:39.107+0000) > > I recently played a game against Mr. Yi as a Sejuani. Since I usually see Master Yi go for IE {{item:3031}} and other such crit items ({{item:3087}}, {{item:3046}}, {{item:3508}})I rushed for a Randuin's Omen {{item:3143}} thinking it would help negate some of the damage from the crits. Instead, he built items such as Black Cleaver {{item:3071}} , Lord Dominic's Regards{{item:3036}} , and Blade of the Ruined King {{item:3153}} > > Our Mid laner was a Sion who was going for health (his goal was to hit 10 K, and he got pretty close), and after I saw what Yi was building I decided it would be a better idea to go with items like Ninja Tabi {{item:3047}}, Thornmail {{item:3075}}, and Warmog's {{item:3083}} to try and at least make use of the armor I had and give our team a little more time to fight since their adc was still building standard items like IE. I could tank for the ADC and Sion could tank for Yi. > > After about 5 fights, it was very apparent that > A) We could not slow him due to his ult > B) He could out heal any damage that we delt to him > C) Armor was useless between his Armor Pen and Wuju Style active ability > D) Health was useless due to his % Health damage > E) We could not stun lock him for long enough to kill him > F) It was pointless to continue the game because no amount of scheming and plotting was getting us anywhere > > Essentially, I could only take about 3-4 hits from him while building full tank, same with Sion. I had upward of 3,000 health, while Sion had well over 6,000 health. It came out to about 700-1500 damage per hit. What do you even do about this situation???? > > Note, I realize that items like Thornmail {{item:3075}} and Frozen Heart {{item:3110}} would help a little, but with his attack speed and damage that would still only stall him for about 2 seconds and deal a total of 204 damage (specifically from thornmail). Is that really all a tank is worth? > > I also understand that people get fed and snowball, but we stayed even, if not ahead of him for a large majority of the game. Our bot lane was raking in kills, our mid lane was ahead in CS, our top lane was dominating, I was a little behind, but I don't feel like it was enough to warrant the punishment that ensued. Are tanks really this useless against the one thing they are SUPPOSED to be able to counter? > > Edit: Added a few more details and fixed some errors I found First of all, link the match. I can't see it in your history, though judging by the images the poster earlier posted no one on your team at any point past the early game was even with Yi. He was ahead all match. Second of all, no one in the entire game, no matter the build, can tank a fully built Master Yi. He is one of the few true melee hypercarries this game has, and his DPS in particular is unmatched. No one comes close to matching his DPS, even with a crit build. He shreds any tank. Thirdly, judging by your comp, your team was very low damage. Kayle and Twitch are your only late game damage dealers, and while their DPS is very high, it takes a while to ramp up, and neither were near Yi's level in gold at any point. Worse, no one on your team had notable burst damage. If instead of a Sion mid you had something like a Neeko or a Vel'koz or even a Vladimir (less burst but can actually survive Yi past two seconds) you might have been able to burst him down once CC'd.
: Yuumi is going to be one of the worst modern champions at launch ever.
> [{quoted}](name=TotalJerk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0vJHPKMT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-15T00:38:04.101+0000) > > It's actually hilarious how bad this champion is, and the more you read or hear about her, the worst she gets. She's basically a complete joke to any decent player that has tried her. How did a champion this garbage get by the playtesters? > > **EDIT:** The numbers are in, and she has the worst day 1 winrate EVER: 29.71% Good. I hope she's bad forever. Enchanters are universally cancer, and an enchanter you literally can't target is omnicancer.
: > [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBLMEdln,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-07T10:50:16.558+0000) > > tanks in general need to stop being bulky assassins vs carries (nukes to half or more then team cleans rest of hp with a execute move) they need more team based abilities instead of 'just' aidsy peel. you dont know how horrible peel feels as a assassin player you scream internally how they dont need peel because of their drain tanking/halo shields they already have with also a cleanse built into scimitar. why does AD get all these cool gadgets similar to 007 from Q. (besides that rant about adcs) tanks should have some inspiration buff aura with slows and conditional stuns, Alistar W stacks requires full stacks to stun as a example. not these twitchy IF I PRESS R OR W YOUR EITHER GONNA DIE OR GET THROWN A MILE AWAY OR INTO DANGER WITHOUT CONSENT 'cough cough' displacements. The day assassins stop killing everything with 0 counterplay they can complain about how horrible CC on them feels.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBLMEdln,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T17:14:50.661+0000) > > The day assassins stop killing everything with 0 counterplay they can complain about how horrible CC on them feels. Sorry friend, but as an ADC player you are not and should not be allowed to counter an assassin, or to have much agency at all really.
: It's May 2019, can we get a Tryndamere that plays like it?
> [{quoted}](name=poopsavage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMaGUk64,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-07T21:07:52.702+0000) > > {{champion:23}} much like (Ashe, Yi, Shaco and similar unreworked legacy characters) is iconic and cements this games roots as an alternative to Dota. That said, in a game that is now so entirely it's own thing, it feels out of place and clunky to have a character who still plays like an old school melee farming hard carry with little synergy in his kit. More modern and reworked champions have real expression through their kits which makes a fight as or with them feel engaging and rewarding for both parties. Tryndamere's flaws are ripe and blatant and go to the nature of his Kit. For the record, I've played Trynd since 2010 in Wood VI. > > His Passive- 35% crit chance at level 1 is massive. Compound this with his high base damage, and the benefits of certain runes that offer attack speed or true damage and it's unfair to play against. As the Trynd player, it's unfun to depend on luck in your trades. Maybe change it to a steroid scaling off of his missing % health, or something that doesn't tie him to marksman items . > > His Q- A raw, instant heal that consumes the entirety of his offensive resources. Offers a negative synergy with his passive, and the passive aspect of the skill. At it's best, it will save your life in the right place at the right time. Most often, it gets made irrelevant with your ult and life steal. Maybe In moving Tryndamere away from crit chance to some other mechanic it could be changed to a reset/skill slash that consumes his fury for big damage and a heal. > > His W- One of the few abilities in the game with no scaling. This is a support ability. Impairing CS in toplane with it is fun, but it just doesn't feel like it belongs on the OG big sword man in 2019. A targeted taunt with a shield would be wayyyyy cooler, or really anything other than this stupid skill. > > His E- Best ability in the game. In fact, it's too good. On demand mobility, and damage on such a short cool down, can even go through walls. It's just too loaded. Redesign it as an engage ability and remove it's escape potential. > > His R- This is what makes Tryndamere "{{champion:23}}". Despite the complaints of the children I play against, this ability is not the root of his problems. There is Counterplay and there is escape. The issue is, it's boring. I pop it and I can wail on somebody for 5 seconds without dying, or run away for 5 seconds without dying. Redesigning Tryndamere opens up this ability to be entirely reimagined. %damage resist that scales with missing health? Drastically increased fury generation for new q spam? STEROIDSSSS? All of the above? Other inventive ideas? Could be sick. > > It's 2019 people, lets make {{champion:23}} great again. Stop trying to get Riot to rework one of the very few melee carries in the game into another generic fatass bruiser that builds off-tank and falls off like a brick late game, ala Aatrox. Note that I'm not saying he couldn't use a rework. He could. But your suggestions would make him just another off-tank diving fatass. They would homogenize him, just like Poppy's rework did.
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMG6qshE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-05T19:21:28.547+0000) > > If only counters existed.... > {{champion:122}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:67}}{{champion:114}} Wow, if only things existed in a vaccum and their your post might be releavant. You cant always counter pick, and even if you do, you can't control your teammates playing wrong against the fed cho. . Also, those dont counter him at all. He will once shot most of them later on.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkinPrime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMG6qshE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-05T19:47:27.363+0000) > > Wow, if only things existed in a vaccum and their your post might be releavant. You cant always counter pick, and even if you do, you can't control your teammates playing wrong against the fed cho. . Also, those dont counter him at all. He will once shot most of them later on. You're out of your mind if you think Cho'gath is fucking with a Master Yi, Vayne, or Fiora late game. Darius maybe, and Kayle in a duel possibly, but she will shred his fat ass in team fights.
Reksee (NA)
: In ARAM, Riven was able to take out 75% of my hp in two seconds when I was evelynn
> [{quoted}](name=Reksee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hPB0bnnl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-05T00:56:41.901+0000) > > Her only item was a {{item:3111}} > > > > > Does that sound balanced to you? She sold all her items at the very end of the game until she only had Mercs and the latest time she killed you was over two minutes before that. Stop lying.
Terozu (NA)
: DPS > Tanks > Burst > DPS and Sustain > Poke > Kill > Sustain
: As a burst mage there is litterally nothing you can do build vs sustain tank such a mundo or tahm
> [{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UlMdGU7p,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-03T01:39:56.704+0000) > > meanwhile in AD {{item:3153}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3123}} Only two of those items work well against high-sustain champions who build tank. One of those items does not work well with most ADs.
: @Riot anybody: What do you want Cho'Gath to be? What is his purpose ingame?
Riot should just bite the bullet and rework him to fully be a late game AP Juggernaut. It fulfills the fantasy of the character far more, gives the game something that it is sorely lacking (a late game juggernaut, of which he is the only one, along with Nasus), and is frankly more in-line with what they seem to be going with anyway, given the DPS of his E in melee and the beefy true damage burst of his R. His Q and W are bizarre relics and need changes to their mechanics to more enable him to succeed when built tanky with damage. And maybe give AP bruisers some itemization.
: i'm kinda sick of how hard this community hates on the champs that take passion to master and play
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiMOmy5G,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-27T01:17:15.494+0000) > > It seems like everyone wants to rip on a certain type of champions, high skill CAP micro based champions who with mastery are difficult to fight against. These champions I generally like to think of as Brawlers since most of them are in the fighter or assassin class though some exceptions exist. > I used this list in a previous post and I think it gives a decent idea of the type of champion i'm talking about:Partial and very incomplete list > {{champion:268}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:238}} > > > look, these champions sometimes take a combination of hours of practice and loads of actual calm calculation just to be able to get a single kill with. They offer a lot of interesting and unique playstyles, they are reliable in most metas, and through mastery they offer some of the most satisfying and well deserved wins. > > First off, mastery of these champions DOES mean you've mastered a part of the game, Them having a higher winrate then a champion like {{champion:86}} {{champion:54}} after hundreds of games one tricking is not indicative of being overpowered. > > > Most one tricks of these champions are focused on Micro intensive dueling and picks, it's what we do. We learn how to fight you, we take the time to master a part of the game, and we use that knowledge to win matches. Many of us aren't even that great at macro for our tier. You say the champions are overpowered but then you don't stop to ask "Did these guys win this match by maintaining a level of skill they can only express on a class of champion?" or how about " Did they put in an assload of effort to do that 1v5?" And finally "did they legitimately play well enough at the ONE THING THEY'RE DOING to deserve it." > > People say 'this isn't call of duty' they say it's a team game. Whats non-participatory about mastering a niche in the game and performing that niche as hard as you can to better allow your team to function by having more map awareness, more gold, and more experience because you took that 1v3 and made it last for 2 solid minutes. > > a guy with iron or bronze map awareness can pull off plat level plays and manuevers in combat and land in silver or gold. that pattern keeps going up, even at the highest levels of play there are people who are better at macro then others, and there are people who are better at those lit zed plays, or the yasuo plays, or the riven plays. They've honed their champion pool to a certain level and know what you're going to throw at them. > > > Just as it's okay for {{champion:86}} to be considered weak for years in high MMR for being a champion for beginners, I think it's fine for {{champion:92}} and over two dozen other champions to have higher viability at higher elos because otherwise the expression of a very important skill in the game would otherwise be capped. Macro expression isn't capped, micro very much is in some metas. > > Look i'm not putting anyone down if they're kicking ass on nautilus and doing what 90% of players are doing in team fights, which is a specific team role. I'm actively trying to show you that we have a place alongside you. You do the team fights, you guard two of the carries, you show the majority of force. But what i'm saying is that if we can't do these flashy things on champs like {{champion:39}} then the purpose and identity of our champs is completely nullified. > > There have been a few metas in the past which removed these champions, metas in which mega tanks are important, shut down many of them. There is no harder counter to almost every single one of these champiosn then {{champion:57}} This guy is a massive pain in the ass and he has 2 point and click cc abilities as well as a screen wide snare and effectively infinite HP in a duel when his class gets buffed just a little too much. > > That's the thing, There is an issue on the rift with finding balance. But I think that among these champions there is a solution. They all share one thing: Options. > > a lee sin or fiora mirror match could end up with one guy getting two kills, but then after he buys the other guy just flat outskills him. It feels really good on miss fortune to perfectly kite an opponent from mid lane all the way down the river to bot lane, that feels good. Your entire power budget for your class is in ranged attacks. > > by comparison if two lucians mirror match and one guy just gets the first kill, that one longsword of a difference will practically guarantee him the rest of the game assuming they farm the same. > > that's not to say that these players don't know their roles well, their itemization, their positioning, who to focus in a team fight, what to do with what buffs, kiting to some insane level, etc etc, it just means that they are more stat dependent and have a better time in certain roles than other champions. > > you know what a lucian can do that a riven can't in a tank meta? Kill maokai. > > And you mages? oh man... Look I know that we're the bane of your existence... but if it's any consolation.. I think it's because your itemization pool is so linear right now. > AP items are supposed to be super interesting.. but honestly the AD pool is generally better on passives and the tank pool is better on actives. of the cool AP actives, 3 share the same timer{{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3152}} , one is required {{item:3157}} and the other one takes like 6 years to unlock {{item:3040}}. I get it. sorry. but don't blame another class for needing itemization buffs, Itemization could solve it pretty decently. > > > TL:DR > mechanical champs are balls to the wall awesome so plz stop hating us No, speaking in my official capacity as a Yasuo main (well, when I was playing regularly), higher skillcap does not justify higher power. You're wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name=Exin0,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sOkGWhkn,comment-id=000000020002,timestamp=2019-04-25T23:35:14.262+0000) > > Who should than counter lategame assassins? For me problem is if you commit yourself to full pene build you should lost power somewhere pene shoul not be best option for everything Rammus with W would counter him. Most tanks that actually were using their spells and not attempting to ignore them would counter them. Rammus made the correct play to kill the Kai’Sa and even eat the zeds full combo, but instead of backing and resetting, he got greedy and hard chased while his W was down, so he got kited out and died. Assassins have PLENTY of counters, it just requires that people make a few concessions, which nobody likes doing. Thing is, upon doing this, you practically eliminate a champion from the enemy team because assassins offer no utility to the game, so once you nullify their kill potential, you nullify them as a champion. Also, juggernauts and bruisers dumpster assassins, typically both in lane and in pretty much every situation assuming equal gold/levels/items. Vayne is also very good against assassins, Sivir can be too.
> [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sOkGWhkn,comment-id=0000000200020000,timestamp=2019-04-25T23:59:18.088+0000) > > Rammus with W would counter him. Most tanks that actually were using their spells and not attempting to ignore them would counter them. Rammus made the correct play to kill the Kai’Sa and even eat the zeds full combo, but instead of backing and resetting, he got greedy and hard chased while his W was down, so he got kited out and died. Assassins have PLENTY of counters, it just requires that people make a few concessions, which nobody likes doing. Thing is, upon doing this, you practically eliminate a champion from the enemy team because assassins offer no utility to the game, so once you nullify their kill potential, you nullify them as a champion. > > Also, juggernauts and bruisers dumpster assassins, typically both in lane and in pretty much every situation assuming equal gold/levels/items. Vayne is also very good against assassins, Sivir can be too. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Tanks counter assassins in the sense that they can peel them in team fights so they waste their cooldowns or are killed, but in terms of actually killing them 1v1? Not really. And even then Rammus might have won if he had access to his full kit and didn't get half-healthed while he was deleting Kai'sa pretty much 1v1 (even though she was doing mostly magic damage and he stacked armour lol!). But if you want to be able to kill assassins solo late game, play a juggernaut, diver, or skirmisher. Most of them can. Even a garbage juggernaut like Garen can crush Zed's balls.
: About the new champion's leaked abilities.
I thought the next champion was supposed to be a solo lane AD assassin?
: > [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYyYi7Yr,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-24T03:45:54.008+0000) > > Based on what? > > What makes you think that a game against players who make up the lower echelon of the playerbase in skill level is representative of a game that is and should be balanced around higher level play? Just is really isn't it.
> [{quoted}](name=The Godkarther,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYyYi7Yr,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-24T14:17:12.296+0000) > > Just is really isn't it. Consider rewording your post so that it makes sense my friend, because I don't know what you're saying here.
: > [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYyYi7Yr,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T21:13:30.173+0000) > > It isn't. > > You are bad and are playing against bad players. > > Your in-game experience is not representative of the game's actual balance due to wildly-differing ability levels and lack of consistency in the playerbase of your games. It is.
> [{quoted}](name=The Godkarther,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYyYi7Yr,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T22:22:21.393+0000) > > It is. Based on what? What makes you think that a game against players who make up the lower echelon of the playerbase in skill level is representative of a game that is and should be balanced around higher level play?
: Yeah agreed. There is no way she's a hyper carry like the vaynes or master yis.
> [{quoted}](name=Always Broken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8ydWjv6O,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T00:06:59.953+0000) > > Yeah agreed. There is no way she's a hyper carry like the vaynes or master yis. She's better than either late game, and no, that doesn't mean she can duel them, scaling isn't all about dueling. She has late game AOE DPS that can shred frontlines and squishies alike with contemptible ease, but unlike Vayne or Master Yi she also has utility.
Zed genius (EUNE)
: Tankiness, damage, mobilty, root, stun, reliable jungle clear, large hitboxes, low mana costs, something that stops you from autoattacking, ability resetting its cooldown a lot, easy ganks, close to no difficulty to play. Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode. Edit: It is Amumu.
> [{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAUjXeTh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-22T07:10:16.531+0000) > > Tankiness, damage, mobilty, root, stun, reliable jungle clear, large hitboxes, low mana costs, something that stops you from autoattacking, ability resetting its cooldown a lot, easy ganks, close to no difficulty to play. > > Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode. I wanna say Ivern, though I don't think he has a stun.
: Still waiting on a yassuo nerf
> [{quoted}](name=PhantomsLight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8H86herO,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-19T04:32:59.194+0000) > > Is it me or can yassuo lose lane and still dominate after being 0/3. He has so much mobility its very hard to hit skillshots and when I do he is able to windwall it (if he can react fast enough). He has 2 passives for some reason double crit chance which is disgusting on its own but then he has a shield that procs automatically making him take reduced damage in trades. His wave clear is way to good at lvl 3 and up for someone without mana or energy. At level 6 he can basically 1 shot most mid laners because he can e in then knock-up with q and by the time you land he gets 2 free autos his q and his r. His build path is so cheap and strong. He starts static shiv which gives him 50% crit chance only being 2600 gold. Most mid start Ludens or gunblade which are 3100 and 3400 respectively. He gets a massive power spike with shiv when he gets it before the other mid laner. Did i mention he can ult you while you are invisible such as akali shroud, neeko w, leblanc passive, becasue it isnt targeted it is proxmity. Once he hits 6 he can tower dive like its a joke becasue of his long range q tornado and r range. and then he can just use his 0.1 sec cd dash to get out of tower range before he takes 2 or 3 shots. In my opinion he should 1. Have energy so he cant constantly spam his abilities and shove wave to roam. 2. Make it to where his r can on hit you at the peak of a knock-up so he doesnt get free damage into more cc. 3. Give his windwall a health bar such can it can only block however many projectiles (minions would count as <1) so he cant block full combos for the price of 1 abilities. 4. Give is e a shot but manageable cooldown like 0.5 sec so he cant just dash it and out constantly (i know he cant dash to the same target twice but the doesnt matter when there is a full minion wave) 5. Reduce his base defenses because he is to tanky for how much damage he can put out early. 6. Remove the armor pen on his ultimate why is it even there in the first place. > Yes I know im a silver pleb and that means nothing i say is credible but lets be honest it doesnt change the fact that he has 2 passives lots of base armor and mag resist a 0.1 sec dash cd a wall that can block every projectile in the game for 4 seconds and pen in his kit so he doesnt need to build any. Keep waiting.
: Considering there is a high elo strat where they litteraly just funnel as much gold as possible into him, yeah. Safe to say he’s pretty broken. If it was any other champion he would have already been gutted.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYyYi7Yr,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-18T15:50:51.081+0000) > > Considering there is a high elo strat where they litteraly just funnel as much gold as possible into him, yeah. Safe to say he’s pretty broken. If it was any other champion he would have already been gutted. Ah so synergy with champions is only grounds for nerfs when the champion is a damage dealer huh? Hypocrite. =)
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
Tahm's W on allies has always been broken. It needed to be gutted. Maybe now he can be balanced since he might not be able to brainlessly protect his carry from any retribution if the players are good at all.
: So long and thanks for all the bullshit, Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7jrmXRP6,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-17T00:09:11.650+0000) > > "One person cannot win you the game, but they can lose it for you." - Faker > > I'm so done. I'm so fucking done. I'm tired of all of this consistent bullshit. Kai'Sa be like "Oh, lets push Top during a teamfight and use all of my gold from kills on minions!" Kat be like "Oh well he won't gank my lane so I'm going to feed, CY@" and I'm just tearing my hair out because ***WHAT THE HELL, RIOT?*** > > Here's the thing, Riot: I came to this game after I had played and finished Dark Souls because I thought it'd also be one of those games where I can improve, see myself doing cooler shit as I improve, and see myself actually rank up from a lowly Iron/Bronze to a Gold. **HELL** fucking nah; I'm greeted with matches I don't influence even if I have the most damage, the most KP%, the most wards plopped the fuck down, the highest vision score, deep wards EVERYWHERE and mushrooms in key spots to avoid ganks and collapses. You treat me like I'm as good when I started as I am now, which is nonsense. > > I don't need to post anything more. This is some fucking B.S and I'm legitimately done. I'm either giving my account away to the first person who asks, or I'm changing my email to a temporary address and my password to a string of random characters. I can't be assed to put effort into a game if this is the sort of bullshit, this sort of match that's so bad, so frustrating it's _**insulting to my own personal skill**_ that I've been working to train up but apparently in the grand scheme of things means **fucking nothing.** You fed like an animal. "But muh damage on a champion who is consistently in the top five highest damage champions on average in the game!" lol. Fact: that Yasuo on the enemy team played better than you, and he deserved to win more than you. Don't like it? Play better. Also, buddy: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3022167738/236190930?tab=stats Ekko and Olaf did more damage than you. Ekko had the same KP, Olaf had higher. You were at best middle of the pack in your team's performance, and like I said the Yasuo on the enemy team did substantially better than anyone on either team. Deal with it. Oh, and you played a shitty meme support like Teemo. =(
Moody P (NA)
: I like that I said listing Tarics kit is not an argument and then you proceeded to list his kit. lol. Fighting to outlast Tarics mana bar is not a healthy representation of gameplay; Sona is a horrible design for the same reason. Neither is "burst them or lose," which, in every meta that he shows up in and becomes either the biggest issue or the second biggest issue behind Lulu or Tahm, makes him almost automatically win teamfight. Hoping the Taric player screws up is not sufficient counterplay; not every champion can freely disengage against multiple invulnerable enemies. JFL if you actually get baited and waste your ult. Tarics E and passive are the only reasonable parts of his kit, marred by the fact that he quickly turns into one of the biggest stat balls in the game when he can mindlessly shit out healing and shielding without having to worry about missing any of it. His only weakness is being out ranged; this is a weakness I'm acutely familiar with. It's hardly a sufficient weakness when your kit is this loaded and it's not a relevant weakness in any situation where Taric is broken. Taric not being in a favored meta in soloQ does not mean his design is good. All poorly designed champions have dry spells.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T10:46:44.146+0000) > > I like that I said listing Tarics kit is not an argument and then you proceeded to list his kit. lol. > > Fighting to outlast Tarics mana bar is not a healthy representation of gameplay; Sona is a horrible design for the same reason. Neither is "burst them or lose," which, in every meta that he shows up in and becomes either the biggest issue or the second biggest issue behind Lulu or Tahm, makes him almost automatically win teamfight. Hoping the Taric player screws up is not sufficient counterplay; not every champion can freely disengage against multiple invulnerable enemies. JFL if you actually get baited and waste your ult. Tarics E and passive are the only reasonable parts of his kit, marred by the fact that he quickly turns into one of the biggest stat balls in the game when he can mindlessly shit out healing and shielding without having to worry about missing any of it. > > His only weakness is being out ranged; this is a weakness I'm acutely familiar with. It's hardly a sufficient weakness when your kit is this loaded and it's not a relevant weakness in any situation where Taric is broken. > > Taric not being in a favored meta in soloQ does not mean his design is good. All poorly designed champions have dry spells. BUT HE DOESN'T DO DAMAGE!
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NemeBro

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