: How about just revert Runes Reforged in general? That sounds like a plan tbh.
Rioter Comments
Theorex (NA)
: I've tried. People want to Hashinshin this type of shit. He lost 15 damage, tech 16.5 at levels 1-5, 21 at levels 6-10, 25.5 at levels 11-15, and 30 damage at level 16+ He win rate dropped like a mother fucker. When people say that they say it in a Pro Scene type of view, not thinking about how 99.999% of players literally will never get to play that scale or with that coordination. If we got to see stats for Clash, then it would be interesting. I would bet that Ryze would still hover around a 46/47% win rate. I am willing to bet that if you did only tier 1 stats, it would still look like trash. But you know, lets just nerf him :) There is no way in hell they leave him alone for the next two years, he is 100% going to get a rework.
It's really sad to see people down vote on something that is factually evident just because they don't like a champion. If you're losing to Ryze on champions that are meta, it's your own fault, not because Ryze is supposedly strong in your eyes. Some people just don't get that. I can get annihilated during lane vs shit like Zed and Katarina but when I finally get my items 25 min and begin to do well I get shit on by being a Ryze abuser. Like what? What am I supposed to do? Just lose because you don't like a champion that is clearly weak and you're too ignorant to figure out how to deal with him? I honestly hope they rework him back to a sustain-battlemage version like in S5, but until then I'm just gonna play Guild Wars 2 and pretend I'm playing Ryze.
Hordes66 (NA)
: Because maybe E Q E QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE QE Q shouldn't be a winning mechanic at high levels of play.
At "high levels of play" his _game changing ability_ is not E or Q but R, so then why not change R? 6 months ago it was his shield and root, 3 years ago it was his low CDs, 4 years ago it was his spell vamp and root. I don't think you understand how much has been taken away from this champion. Ryze isn't a fraction of what he was 5 years ago.
Rioter Comments
Bijeesny (EUNE)
: But if you beat a duo wouldnt that mean youre more skilled than 2 coordinated players? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
what do you mean by "beat"? do you mean by flashing away? only to have them wrap back around 10s later since there isn't anything better to do in the jungle and junglers need some exp?
: even the odds by being a mid jg dou.... or cheat the vision, and ward to oneside and play to your vision...and then clown on them for the fact they cant gank you and out farm them
you know mid has 6 different directions in which people can gank from?
Rioter Comments
Saezio (EUNE)
: wrong. Some champions' weakness is _supposed_ to be that they have 0 sustain. Like mages. Game has had lifesteal ITEMS since season 1. Ravenous needs to be removed or made to be vs champs only
what? then what is the purpose of battle mages?
: Idk how Ravenous hasn't been nerfed yet. Heals for 5x more than Conqueror every game since it isn't limited to only champ combat or a 5 hit requirement.
it required 5 stacks from kills/assists though
: This wouldn't be an issue if Riot would address the excessive amount of healing in the game. Ravenous Hunter, Conqueror, Taste of Blood, etc. As of right now the amount of sustain in the game is absurd
healing has been a problem before ravenous hunter, taste of blood and conqueror. caitlyn life stealing from 50% to 100% in 2-3 auto attacks is more ridiculous than me trying to spell vamp with ravenous hunter
: They arent when the sustained damage is sustained burst. and there are little good MR defensive items from way back then there was only 1 good magic resist item at a time pre season 4 then after season 4 there wasnt even 1 good magic resist item until Banshee's veild got reworked for ap then the only good magic resist item is for ranged ap.
I'm sorry but when Ryze had his sustain form in season 5 it wasn't sustained burst he was more of a mage bruiser or mage tank that did more damage if people were on top of him. There was fewer MR items back then but there are now and there are more options to deal with excessive healing
Rioter Comments
WovenRocks (EUNE)
: She used to be a control mage, she only got reclassified as a battle mage after they removed the control mage classification.
its crazy how many classifications are they removing for the sake of making the game "beginner friendly"
WovenRocks (EUNE)
: Taliyah's EWQ is a burst combo, it just isn't supposed to be one. Basically exactly what you said about battle mages transitioning into burst mages. She's supposed to control zones with her w, e, and r and deal sustained damage with q if she can position well. The damage potential on w e is really high but it's fairly easy to dodge which makes it as much about the threat it can provide as the raw damage.
gotta take it up with Riot Jatt that said that sustain mages (battle mages) are not healthy for the game. well, they WERENT healthy back then since there wasn't sustain mitigation mechanic like grievous wounds
: > [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxAxzsEt,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2020-01-10T19:32:41.551+0000) > > no mana>??? They already have no mana. What are they going to be given in return for losing resets?
because everything HAS to be compensated, right
: > [{quoted}](name=Rewt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxAxzsEt,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-10T02:08:38.018+0000) > > But Manaless champions should not have resets at all. > > A Manaless champion is designed to be gated by their cooldowns. So they are generally given longer cooldowns than the average mana based champion. But when you give them resets that kind of defeats the idea of having a way to gate them. So what are you going to give them as compensation?
: They all itemise 40% CDR, and even before then their average cooldown is 8 seconds. That's extremely short, especially considering their abilities turn into high impact nukes/utility/hard CC. Vel'koz Q especially has like a 4 second cooldown at 40%, Ahri has a 6 second CD Q at 40% rank 5, Xerath's Q is like 6-8 seconds....
: Why do all mages have to be burst mages?
because they removed sustain from battle mages and opted them into burst mages also how is taliyah a control mage???? her EWQ is literally a burst combo
: Rework Ryze .... Again .... Riot
you're mad because you got clapped
: I Hate Vayne Top
Freeze the lane, set up a gank. Probably pertains to almost every ranged champions that goes toplane. Vayne also can't push the wave fast enough, therefore cannot break the freeze.
Raiyza (NA)
: His build path wont change. Thats why I said buff his mana scalings. It would make Tear items stronger for Ryze.
If you remove AP scaling on his passive and abilities then there would be no reason to build AP items, specifically. He would then just opt to build defensive-mana items like Frozen Heart, Icebourne Gauntlet, Righteous Glory, and Abyssal Mask first. Perhaps the only thing that would remain the same is Seraph's Embrace since he'd be able to obtain 1000 mana from it.
: > [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:35:05.199+0000) > > I believe that Rod of Ages mana refund from damage taken, the healing from mana spent, and Conqueror have good synergy for Ryze and Cass which is why they're doing well. They're seemingly oppressive early on since Catalyst is a quick buy, they don't need to buy AP immediately since they can stack Conqueror. With Catalyst they spend mana, heal, and are refunded mana while taking damage WHILE stacking Conqueror for AP and once stacked obtain an additional 15% healing. Have you tried playing this same way without Catalyst? It's incredibly difficult and you will feel that movement speed from Phase Rush is infinitely better. Yet again why my champion get punished on every turn cause there some champions that abuse shit, cause their kit allow them to abuse stuff?
Would you rather your champion abuse it? Because then someone else will complain that their champion can't abuse it either. They can't make runes/items for specific champions because then there wont be any diversity in build paths. Imagine having to only take Aftershock on Jax because the rune was specifically made for him and any other champion that tries to use it is fails to exhibit the same level of performance as Jax. Instead they make general runes for a class of champions or a group of champions with similar characteristics. In S6 after Ryze got the major rework, most Ryze players really didn't have an option that fit his battle-mage style of gameplay. I would often have to take Thunderlord's Decree (which is now Electrocute) or Death Fire's Touch (removed). That version of Ryze gameplay style is completely different than the one now because of the Runes Reforged rune changes. A big issue is people that have a louder voice in the community (ie; Hashinshin) are so dead set on the old runes and how "great" they used to be on several champions. He is so set on trying to re-introduce Fervor of Battle (which is kind of like Conqueror now) and old items that were removed for a purpose. Instead of switching up how he plays, he is playing old strategies/methods in a newer version of League.
: > [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-12-06T03:38:07.106+0000) > > Phase Rush out classes Conqueror for both Ryze and Cassiopeia. I have yet to see extraordinary healing values from Conqueror since that seems to be what everyone was complaining about. The only thing that I found useful was that it gave large amount of AP, relative to early game AP values. Fully stacked Conqueror generates 20AP level 1, but healing from it is marginal, since it's 15% of damage dealt and no one really does incredible amounts of damage early on. However, pairing it with Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunter is what makes it seems really oppressive. In fact, in my games Ravenous Hunter literally out heals Conqueror 5 fold. You get the point here anyway but again as you extra AP mixed with heal make it better option
I believe that Rod of Ages mana refund from damage taken, the healing from mana spent, and Conqueror have good synergy for Ryze and Cass which is why they're doing well. They're seemingly oppressive early on since Catalyst is a quick buy, they don't need to buy AP immediately since they can stack Conqueror. With Catalyst they spend mana, heal, and are refunded mana while taking damage WHILE stacking Conqueror for AP and once stacked obtain an additional 15% healing. Have you tried playing this same way without Catalyst? It's incredibly difficult and you will feel that movement speed from Phase Rush is infinitely better.
Raiyza (NA)
: No mage should actually scale from mana AND Ap, honestly. Just buff his mana scaling and make him pure mana scaling.
What would he build if that were the case. Items with mana also have AP associated with them, and if he had no scalings then it would be a waste of stats and gold.
xelaker (NA)
: I have 0 sympathy for a champ that hits full build at sub 900 gold
He has to start Crystal Sapphire because of how costly/reliant he is on his spells. No other champion does that.
Verxint (NA)
: EQ costs 80 mana, sure, but not only does tear refund 15% of that, you're ignoring mana regen and levelups.
You're right I did leave those out but I really didn't want to go into depth. My hope was to lay fundamental concepts down.
pwc2016 (NA)
: It Amazes me that Mordekaiser is not getting a change in 9.24
> Ryze has no reliable engage except his speed up from procing 2 Q's Ryze can proc his Q MS steroid by applying E-flux 2 times to anything, then pressing Q.
: Great so Urgot going to get another indirect nerf cause Ryze and Cass are overpowered champions
Phase Rush out classes Conqueror for both Ryze and Cassiopeia. I have yet to see extraordinary healing values from Conqueror since that seems to be what everyone was complaining about. The only thing that I found useful was that it gave large amount of AP, relative to early game AP values. Fully stacked Conqueror generates 20AP level 1, but healing from it is marginal, since it's 15% of damage dealt and no one really does incredible amounts of damage early on. However, pairing it with Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunter is what makes it seems really oppressive. In fact, in my games Ravenous Hunter literally out heals Conqueror 5 fold.
Sirsir (NA)
: The Ryze Problem
> His gimmick is spam He's gated by mana Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage. Cassiopeia also spams her abilities, but that isn't her "gimmick". Additionally, Ryze's cooldowns are implemented in a way that even at 40% CDR there is a brief gap in between his full rotation. At lower CDR values in the early game the gap is more evident and the lack of mana deters him from spamming his abilities. At level 6 he has 497 mana + 250 (tear) + however much he's stacked thus far. Suppose we're at a flat 750 mana, and we are wave clearing with EQ (80 mana), we would only be able to use EQ 9 times in lane before we completely run out of mana. In the early stages of the game at least 3 EQs are needed to completely clear the wave, but I don't even do that. Therefore this is the time to capitalize on Ryze. > He's gated by mana Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage. Tear and mana in general, prior to completion of Seraph's Embrace, marginally influence his damage. Briefly looking at his Q ratio, **3% bonus mana** isn't all that much, especially in the early game. Suppose you have Tear (250 mana), 3% of that nets you 7.5 damage. Even in late game when you have 2500-3500 bonus mana, the damage ranges from 75 to 105, respectively. After you incorporate resistances, the damage further decreases. > He has no ult reliance so all of his damage is in his base kit. It's almost like Udyr where since he effectively has no ult more of his power budget goes into his base kit I'm sure you're away that Ryze's Q damage is amplified per R rank. The scaling goes 40%/70%/100%. The Q amplification used to be on Q, but they shifted the passive to R to add incentive to invest in it. So now, he obtains full damage at level 16. The primary use, however, is a great roaming ability. You'll only understands its capabilities when you use it as much as you can. You'll understand its range and how you can clip over walls with it. It's extremely useful and reliable. > Not that hard of a problem to figure out. Now that he no longer needs to spam E to get his waveclear that ability needs an actual cooldown at its early levels. there are too many relics from when he was a combo mage that aren't needed anymore. Not sure why you you're saying that Ryze doesn't spam E anymore. In fact, Ryze uses E more now since he can apply E-flux to the entire wave. Before his E was changed, he could double E, wait for E to almost come off CD, Q the wave, then E again for it to double bounce off the Q, then if needed Q again. I could do this with tear + 2 sapphire crystals in the early game at level 6. The net cost was 200 mana or 240 if you used the 2nd Q. Wave clearing like this was faster than it is now but it cost much more mana. So they made is "easier" to wave clear by making flux spread but removed the double bounce mechanic.
: Nerf Akali Riot Read & Akali HATERS
oh hey i'm the guy that spanked you with Ryze the other day. surprised to see you complaining about everything here
: The reason only vlad took it was because they had to rebalance it (aka nerf the shit out of it for everyone else) to the point where it wasn't viable on anyone other than vlad. Also no it wasn't the only one, Gunblade existed.
i mean kind of like manamune on ezreal. its KEY on ezreal but other champions that currently build it dont rely on it. so now we're playing favorites with champions. some champions get shafted while others get to thrive with their single item. gunblade before change in s6 was extremely bad since there weren't champions to utilize its passive.
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o5fjEiwU,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T06:07:19.189+0000) > > it was removed because of vlad, not any other champion and specifically because they couldnt make it good on anyone else while vlad existed to use it, not because it was broken.
no the problem was that a spell vamp item that literally only vlad took was removed which was the only spell vamp item at the time.
: Im not confused, its just the ryze is literal dogshit in any iteration where ever he goes, maybe he should just be removed from rankrd and proplay until they can balanced him to not be a toplane scaling splitpusher melee punisher
: Because mages dont have ravenous hunter? Also please recall why spellvamp was removed (it was reslly fucking broken and abusive by other champs besides vlad) owo.
it was removed because of vlad, not any other champion
: > [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o5fjEiwU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T02:54:36.358+0000) > > yeah put restrictions on everything, that's what makes the game lots of fun right? certain cases are niche and abuse cases that ruin it in general. others are fine. being "op" isnt fun.
ryze wasn't "OP" when he was changed over the summer. he only became a talking point when he was played during worlds, who would have thought that a team oriented champion would thrive in worlds and that same champion is dumbed down for imbeciles to thrive in soloQ. Remember when he had his shield? The thing that everyone complained about? He was at 44% win rate in that iteration. They took that 44% win rate and made it bronze proof by spreading E instantly and all of a sudden he's "OP"??? His damage is pretty much the same lmaoo that is what is so hilarious about these daily posts
: Battle Mage (No CD's, DPS champ) ---or--- Burst Mage (Actual CD's, not as much DPS) Pick one Riot
I mean he's not much of a battle mage anymore since they removed his spell vamp from old R and his shield. It was only until spell flux spread instantly when people realized he did damage, his damage was present even before and wasn't gated by his R.
: Alright no, Mage Conqueror test is over
yeah put restrictions on everything, that's what makes the game lots of fun right?
: I mean, he has to land his E. Its an easy thing to dodge.
Rioter Comments
: lol right just weq get max damage and run with shield so you cant trade back
for the low price of 140 mana at RANK 1 abilities. but most of these new posts are about how q passive + phase rush is so unfair but it wasn't unfair 3 years ago? just another thing to complain about. next they'll say that Q range is too far
: its just kinda funny noone said shit about ryze, worlds come along and he shits on everyone, now theres like 10 qq threads a day about him
imagine if these people knew that he had a shield...lmaoo
: What are you even arguing here? His hp was going down when ryze was hitting him. Your reducing the healing not eliminating it entirely. meaning hes healing 60% of what his ult would normally heal him not 0%. This post is terrible. You can see that his healing per second dropped from +70-80 to +40 when you were hitting him at the very end of the fight before you died.
does a whole lot when his regen drops after I'm dead, doesn't it? care to explain why the post was terrible? I buy an item to counter healing/regen and as seen in the video, it isn't effective vs mundo. it literally remains at 800+ the entire time I'm fighting him when he ults right until I die but when I play soraka grievous wounds works like a charm against me
Rioter Comments
: > Mid everyone out-ranges him and has a pretty easy time with him. {{champion:55}} gets zoned hard lv 1, Vlad hits 2 first and zones even harder. There are windows to jump on him but just between minion damage and autos he will probably go even in early trades and sustain back up with Q afterwards. Lv 3 onward he just holds pool and shuts down her engage every single time. The only way {{champion:55}} beats {{champion:8}} is if he screws up... then again that's the only way she ever beats anyone besides {{champion:161}}...
level 1 melee gets zoned by level 1 ranged who would have known
: Can Ryze Stop outtrading with Mana Crystal
but he literally can't out trade with mana crystal. he's forced to go mana crystal to back with tear
: > [{quoted}](name=Hextech KøgMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rkNWFtva,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-10T21:54:13.696+0000) > > lmao they remove his shield and people still complain They made it easier for him to do aoe damage by removing the shield. I much rather prefer the shield
a lot of people found the shield non-interactive hence the removal of it
: Ryze in high elo has no counterplay
lmao they remove his shield and people still complain
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: Transcendence is one of his main Runes and it generally is best when you build 30% CDR or at least overflow by 20%. There is no issue in building those items on top of Seraph's in terms of CDR. I don't know about FH, but Abyssal is always an option since its Passive compensates for the lack of AP as the game progresses. However, unless the enemy has mostly Magic Damage, Rod will always be the best option.
old ryze (s5 ryze) gave you 10% CDR per ult rank which made it inefficient to build CDR since you'd lose value later
: You mean the super speed he gets whilst combining that with Phase Rush? Oh sure, why not.
the original complaint is not about movement speed, which is in fact conditional and not instantaneous
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