Rioter Comments
: I don't think aatrox is even that powerful(alone). Judging from the lore he alone buff everyone instead of fighting himself. And people really stop up playing the celestrials, I mean bard doesn't apear to have any real combat ability. All he seem to do is able stop shit and steal shit.
> [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=h4hEW4RZ,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-10-02T07:05:25.011+0000) > > I don't think aatrox is even that powerful(alone). Judging from the lore he alone buff everyone instead of fighting himself. > And people really stop up playing the celestrials, I mean bard doesn't apear to have any real combat ability. All he seem to do is able stop shit and steal shit. Well actually he did fight himself. He was written as having dived into battle and started slaughtering the enemy which in turn buffed everyone as you say before disappearing after it was over. He didn't just turn up, say 'sup here's some Gatorade now go fite. Lol. He motivated them by demonstrating his own strength which inspired them to not give in.
: I Did Not Know Gnar Was Transgender.
: Why is Nocturne not in the elementals? He is the embodiment of darkness and nightmares. He's definitely stronger than Elise or Maokai. Fiddlesticks probably is too. Leona and Diana should be moved down. They are more like priests of a religion. I don't think they are on the level of Kayle and Morgana. Karma is also questionable when we have Syndra two tiers lower. A lot of the S-Class could be argued to be stronger than some of the Shadow Isles people. Annie, Wukong and Jax are all probably stronger than Maokai. Wasn't Brand beaten by a bunch of Demacian soldiers? Not hugely impressive if so but I suppose at his full potential he could be dangerous.
Yeah, some of the lore seems outdated. Anywho, updated the post/power listing based on some of the feedback (also taking into consideration feats/potential of said champions), and am more inclined to agree with the minor changes made after the responses helped fill in some of the blanks. Also, yeah, champions within each bracket have the potential to go toe-to-toe, except if it's like from one end vs the next extreme e.g. Kalista vs GP would be pretty one-sided/GP is probably not gonna be k.
: > [{quoted}](name=Norr1N,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=h4hEW4RZ,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T00:20:47.850+0000) > > I put them above the "mere" mortals. If they can withstand the test of time either physically (Aatrox) or spiritually (avatars/elementals/other spirits) than they're probably going to be above the living creatures such as those from the Void as well as those spirits/necromancers trapped like on the Shadow Isles, and for sure higher than plebs regardless of their short-term potential. If that makes sense. Aatrox cant die due age, fut he still a mortal. The "Avatars" of the Sun and the Moon, as you call them are nothing in comparison of someone that you not even mentioned in the list. Brand was literally killed by Demacian forces after the institute of War was removed from the lore. Maokai still a spirit from the Shadow Isles, and some people would even argue that Kalista is more powerfull than Him. By you standards, {{champion:26}} would be above all the rest of the champions, even Bard and Kindred, since he cant be killed or destroyed by any means.
Yeah I did wonder about Mao admittedly. Although, with Zil, having an accident and being able to see the past but not be able to do sh*t, I dunno. Hence general power to effect change also being a factor when longevity alone isn't enough to establish an adequate power rating xp (+ feats help a lot).
: Are Kindred really celestial? I'm pretty sure that they're just incredibly powerful spirits. Bard and Kindred are basically uber-spirits, if I'm not wrong. :P
Well they govern death's domain, which has a pretty huge reach across all of existence/time/space hence celestial fitting. Is death a spirit? Maybe in Runeterra idk. Bard's race is literally stated as ["Celestial Being"](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Bard/Background).
: > [{quoted}](name=Norr1N,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=h4hEW4RZ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-30T23:41:45.776+0000) > > Lol. Idk, got bored started killing each other? Maybe rest all left and 5 decided to stay and troll the other races? Who knows. At this rate maybe we never will. Rito pls. The point is that his race is in border of extinction, and they can die. They dont "troll the other races", Aatrox "trolls" the human race, which is different. The human race is the weakest race after the Yordles... He has never intervened in a war against creatures that are stronger than the humans, like the undeads (during the harrowing) of the Void (The Xersai always attack Shurima) Also: You are putting Aatrox and the "avatars/elementals" too high in your list.
I put them above the "mere" mortals. If they can withstand the test of time either physically (Aatrox) or spiritually (avatars/elementals/other spirits) than they're probably going to be above the living creatures such as those from the Void as well as those spirits/necromancers trapped like on the Shadow Isles, and for sure higher than plebs regardless of their short-term potential. If that makes sense.
: If the Race of Aatrox was so powerful, Why the hell there are only 5 of them remaining? https://youtu.be/Um9rzGPE3Ug?t=12
Lol. Idk, got bored started killing each other? Maybe rest all left and 5 decided to stay and troll the other races? Who knows. At this rate maybe we never will. Rito pls.
GreenLore (EUW)
: I'd say in terms of raw fighting power the darkins are on par with celestials/spirits,but darkin seem to be a lot more physical meaning it is probably easier to end them(as opposed to bard,who tends to hang out in his spirit realm)
I put him at the same level as the ascended, he's not quite up there so as to rival celestials by the looks of it.
Rioter Comments
Sharjo (EUW)
: How do they work? A look at Aatrox, Bard, Tahm Kench and Kindred
We need a Darkin event. How would the Darkin rank in the grand scheme of things? Clearly they're more ancient than Shurima and any other civilisation heard of thus far. But do they come close to Celestial-tier like Bard/Kindred? Where does Tahm rank now that I think about it? Or the Void for that matter? Also Xerath/the ascended vs Bard. Power levels... unclear. Seems like Kindred is the highest tier of authority released so far.
: IMO Demon Vi Should Have Been Darkin Vi
Void Fizz makes more sense as a skin since the Void can corrupt people like it tried to do to Kass/Malz, also it's filled with creatures apparently. Meanwhile, only 5 Darkin are meant to exist.. it's a more exclusive club per say. Reducing it to a skin it just... terribly poor taste, and pretty much shits on Aatrox's lore/persona (what little he has of it anyway). So no, no need to make an already popular character such as Vi, with plenty of personality/history, feel even more special by taking away something core from another character. It's like me wanting Katarina to also have an avatar of the moon skin, even though that's Diana's schtick.. and she'd probably kick my ass for even suggesting it. So I guess choosing a less popular champ to do it to is suppose to be ok? Not in my book. xp
: Champions and their inspiration?
: Mordekaiser's a mix between Sauron and the Overlord. Hue! http://img07.deviantart.net/e6ef/i/2013/017/f/3/sauron__the_lord_of_the_rings_by_callthistragedy1-d5ru2gq.png http://news.konsolenkost.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/320205e2a42cc195fb6831a2a7d983ab1bfc3cbc_crop1600x1200.jpg
Was the Overlord based off of Sauron too though? xp
: > Aatrox IS the last remaining Darkin in Runeterra He.. very specifically is not. They outright say theres atleast 4 others. > Aatrox's purpose all along was to prepare mankind for the inevitable return of the Darkin, hence his attempts at forging the strongest warriors across all of Runeterra throughout history. Doesn't sound like him. You don't make warriors from slaughter. And that's what Aatrox is doing, and what he loves. He turns around wars simply because that is the way to produce the greatest bloodshed and massacre. He's honestly a pretty simply guy motivation-wise. > r some explanation as to how Tahm Kench knows and refers to Aatrox as his "friend" This part is conjecture, but it's my belief that Tahm sees a kinship in Aatrox. Aatrox has a 'hunger' for blood and violence, and he uses humans to fulfill that urge. Similarly, Tahm is essentially THE demon of hunger, and naturally also makes bargains with humans to help himself. They both pursue similar goals. Aatrox is just more... direct, about his.
> [{quoted}](name=Narasimha,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EsAjjzoH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-30T18:03:48.305+0000) > > He.. very specifically is not. They outright say theres atleast 4 others. > > Doesn't sound like him. You don't make warriors from slaughter. And that's what Aatrox is doing, and what he loves. He turns around wars simply because that is the way to produce the greatest bloodshed and massacre. He's honestly a pretty simply guy motivation-wise. > > This part is conjecture, but it's my belief that Tahm sees a kinship in Aatrox. Aatrox has a 'hunger' for blood and violence, and he uses humans to fulfill that urge. Similarly, Tahm is essentially THE demon of hunger, and naturally also makes bargains with humans to help himself. They both pursue similar goals. Aatrox is just more... direct, about his. I know they said there are 4 others, but I went ahead and intentionally rewrote it (hence the emphasis on "IS") since there was no followup, and at this rate would take over a decade to unveil traditionally, I threw it out the window and retconned it for simplicity's sake. It's w.e though. As for the rest, again, if _Teemozord_ wasn't giving it away, none of it was a serious attempt at unearthing Riot's secret hidden lore document, just something to ponder about whilst we wait for them to decide on a direction/action to take. In addition, his motivations are clearly said to be unknown and also conjecture so we can't honestly say with absolute certainty why he's doing what he does beyond the glance we've been given. Nice insight into Tahm Kench though.
kJs (OCE)
: Who thinks Vayne and Lucian she be listed as Allies?
Both seem more like the solo types. Could see a teamup along with other characters who fend off the forces of darkness if needed (like Karma maybeh), but as you said they have their own independant goals. Not partners, could be more like drinking buddies tbh like Batman/Superman cafe.
Macilento (EUW)
: Demacia and Noxus: Will we ever learn more about them?
When a champion is released from either location, they usually layer on a few more tidbits of info either about the cities themselves or interactions with other champions located their. I'm more worried about champions who belong to no faction or state, how are we going to get stories involving them? Wait over half a decade for a rework? :/
: What Champs do you want to hear more about?
27 months later... still the only Darkin... {{item:3070}}{{champion:266}}{{item:3070}}
: The new Kassadin skin is heavily astronomy based?
I like this skin a lot, especially the particles. I'd buy it if Kassadin wasn't so boring to play (imo).
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: None of that had anything to do with anything I said. "Manage your mana" is not a magical solution. Conserving your abilities for when they are most efficient maximizes your mana potential, but it still means not getting the most out of your kit. Also, as with all energy champs Zed has built in energy sustain. He can build additional energy through runes, as well. And his energy costs drop as his skills level, so his economy does in fact scale. And mana is bought by mages, it doesn't appear in their inventory.
> [{quoted}](name=WalkingInACircle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f1RGlszx,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-30T04:08:47.451+0000) > > None of that had anything to do with anything I said. "Manage your mana" is not a magical solution. Conserving your abilities for when they are most efficient maximizes your mana potential, but it still means not getting the most out of your kit. > > Also, as with all energy champs Zed has built in energy sustain. He can build additional energy through runes, as well. And his energy costs drop as his skills level, so his economy does in fact scale. And mana is bought by mages, it doesn't appear in their inventory. You want to get the most out of a kit without having to worry about mana convervation... this isn't URF. How do you plan on balancing that, since it seems like what you want is to remove resources from the game just so you can freely spam more of your champion's abilities without much thought even after acknowledging how inefficient that would be. Or, alternatively, you can git gud. Also, energy runes, really? Not to mention Zed has probably the worst energy-return mechanic amongst energy users, not that they're amazing to begin with, considering it relies entirely on using up his main escape and then landing multiple skillshots concurrently otherwise he's at risk of having not enough energy to carry out his next move in time (hence the skillcap making sense). "Mana is bought by mages".. O'rly? I had no idea... I'm done lol.
: No, you can't skill mana into magically regenerating faster.
> [{quoted}](name=WalkingInACircle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f1RGlszx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-30T02:30:05.700+0000) > > No, you can't skill mana into magically regenerating faster. Yes, because mana-based mages don't gain mana/lvl and have 0 regeneration stats but should totally be able to spam abilities endlessly with maxed out CDR runes/masteries at level 1. Also, you do realise energy champs have a trade off as in they gain some lane sustain via energy (and even then on a melee champ and with no sustain to HP like half the AP champs out there half of those whom also come with hard CC e.g. Ahri, Cassio, Akali, Vlad, Morde, Morgana, Swain, Ryze, Cho, etc.), but since it's a limited amount it falls off hard past laning/once enemy has chalice since it doesn't matter how much CDR he builds, Zed can't cast abilities if he Has. No. Energy. Which is what he gives up for that earlier lane dominance. I.e. The way he uses his spells within a brief period of time is a lot riskier than a mage who probably only expends 5% of their mana (vs _60%+_ energy **at max rank too** for W-Q-E _all in one basic telegraphed rotation_) casting an equivalent spell later in the match whilst having almost half his cooldowns since actually being able to make USE of CDR which is just a wasted stat/gold on energy champs for the most part. In short, if you're okay with only having like 200 mana and being able to cast your spells once every 10-20s AND stuck being melee for the entire game, sure you can have infinite mana regen. xp
: True Form Changer Quinn Rework
It's weird, back when she was first released, I always felt like her blind could've been something like a reverse Kindred E. Where Valor dives down instantly and strikes targeted enemy units and blinds them. I liked the idea of Quinn comboing with Valor per ability, rather than just through her ultimate like a transform champ as you say. Would be cool if Quinn had like no mana resource, but like a Valor meter which showed how "rested" Valor was, and then you had a bunch of short cooldown basic abilities which consumed stamina. And maybe Quinn's ultimate was like putting herself in danger giving Valor the means to tap into an infinite reserve for x seconds where Quinn and Valor are just acrobatically dashing around comboing the shit out of the enemy in a teamfight darting around as if they were in some kind of dogfight. Hmm.... gotta remind myself to write up an idea thread for that later. OT, your removal of Skystrike and MS reminds me of [something similar](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4626644), which unlike your rework retained her current playstyle for the most part, so I don't see a reason why that couldn't work. P.S. I thought "Tag Out!" said "Tap Out!" lol. Potentially some kind of finisher? xp
: Community: "Immobile mages need buffs to stay strong against their mobile counterparts."
Just out of curiosity, what is the missile speed on Veigar's ult? Cuz by the time I hear the woosh-boom noise i'm already dead.. it's like a mess of particles being thrown at me that's almost impossible to counter unless the Veigar is dumb enough to ult an unbroken {{item:3102}} or i'm playing Fizz with maxed out CDR and get lucky. Maybe i'm just easily distracted {{champion:107}}. xp
: Unlike a Zed, who gets to harass 5 times a wave.
> [{quoted}](name=WalkingInACircle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f1RGlszx,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-30T02:33:19.820+0000) > > Unlike a Zed, who gets to harass 5 times a wave. Uses all of energy + shadow + skills to clear wave, has no means of harassing ranged foe = tie if lucky enough to have an enemy who's bad at mana conservation/last hitting. Uses above spell rotation to harass enemy, has no means of waveclear so forced into melee vs said ranged foe = gets zoned to shit or dumped on for up to 18 seconds. Ult made useless by an early/mid-game item which is core on 90% of APs and conveniently consists of both defensive AND offensive stats whilst also being insanely cost-efficient and having an amazing recipe. Gets countered by standard armor which everyone gets per level unlike MR which remains at base or a fixed value regardless of whether you're a tank or a carry giving AP mages more targets to choose from/less concerned with who to blow spells/burst on in contrast. Gains no energy/lvl also makes it more difficult to keep up past laning (making building CDR fairly useless), especially with slowed down shadows and delays thrown in cuz "needz moar counterplayz", with no other means of defence/CC like charms/bonus movement speed/invisibility/resets/etc (with his only tool; his shadows, inevitably leaving him a sitting duck for ~~1~~0.5s #YAY?# in the middle of an enemy team with the basic grasp of the concept of grouping late game/activating items/justuseExhaustHealShieldInvulorsimplyCChim), and nerfed splitpush cuz why not who needs to be useful at all = gg mr assassin. Balance is a lie. P.S. Try not standing in the middle of a wave next time.
Pokeprof (NA)
: It's not just the fact that Ez has a reliable Early/Mid. It's the fact that thanks to his kit, he's able to spam his abilities more readily then anyone else and (In turn) has the best escapes out of any ADC when played well. You could have the best damage in the game but that doesn't matter if you can't live long in a fight, and Ez is the best of them to do just that. I admit that his scaling could be brought up a tad or so, but I don't think he's got the huge stone drop for end game unless said end game we're talking about is a 50 minute bout. That all said, itemization and Meta does a LOT to change up who's good and who's bad. Marksmen in general need an item face lift and I'm kinda surprised they weren't first in line, considering how bad their items have been compared to everyone else since day one. Meta also impacts ADC's a lot more then any other champion in the game, if only because it flat out decides what's more important to the team, the extra CC, the hyper carry, or the one who can be the most safe. Right now, with everyone crapping themselves silly at even the mere mention of a Juggernaut (Despite the nerfs ALL of them have received), and tanks still being relevant, CC is more desired then someone who can just run away.
I'll give you that he has a decent escape, even if we have since had champions like Lucian, Kalista, and now Kindred who may be able to out do him in that regard in more specific situations. Still, you mention his poke. But spammable physical damage poke that can only hit one target < spammable AOE magic damage poke for an **AD**C in the late game when every one's packing a decent amount of Armor whilst half the champions in the game could still be at base MR (which doesn't improve by much per lvl if at all if ranged). Which is one of the reasons why we've seen Corki played _a lot_ more regularly in constrast to Ez at higher brackets despite both being TF/poke-based marksmen. Harder to block/mitigate damage from a Corki than an AD Ez. I'm sure you've seen those moments where Ez is the last one remaining vs an enemy team and can't poke them off 3 turrets and an inhib despite supposedly specializing in poke simply because it's so much easier to ignore him at that point in the game. I wouldn't add CC/waveclear to Ez, and you're right something else is still desired hence rather a boost to his damage/scaling as you also mentioned.
Rioter Comments
Pokeprof (NA)
: Here's the thing though that I got to say. I don't think Ez needs a change all that much, if at all. You go on the fact that he's got weak end game and no real utility, but then you've got to think... That's not why you're choosing Ezreal. As you yourself have stated, not all champion need to be rid of all their weaknesses and Ez's has always been that he just doesn't work as well in the late game as other ADCs. You chose Ez because he's got a great early game, is among one of the safer ADC's to play thanks to his kit, and has is one of the few marksmen who isn't locked down into any one build that can be effective. Buffing his late game or giving him too much utility would push him close to this 'I can do anything' homogenization that Riot has taken painful strides to move away from. Especially recently, the idea is to have a very set focus on what a character can do well and what they can't with making it so that when those situations arise, these characters can shine. An perfect example of this is Ashe. During the assassin meta, she wasn't all that desired, because most Assassins can catch her and burst her down with little effort and theres little she could do otherwise to stop it. Come the Cinderhulk tank era, though, and she's much more desired, capable of slowing down, stopping, and working against the tanks much better then some of the other adcs around. There are simply times and games that call for a more CC heavy ADC who works better late game like Ashe and others that call for someone who's more about early game and mid game as well as more reliable, like Ez. This isn't to say that he should be useless come Late game, espeically if he's been feed hard throughout the game, but there's a steady balance between what is enough and what isn't. ATM, Ezreal is in a pretty solid spot and I'd rather not see the ADC meta shift back to where it was just him, Corki, and Lucian again.
Well this thought did cross my mind as I was typing some of the things you referenced, and I definitely wouldn't throw any CC or waveclear onto him or some huge sweeping rework to buff him into some one-stop wonder. I just feel even given his strengths his value as an ADC feels subpar late game in general, especially after Riot have put in so much effort to avoid early winning games. Like if you flattened out the typical power curve for every ADC along with their unique traits contributing points or something, Ezreal would just about fall short of the total average value in the current game. Yes he has a decently reliable early/mid game, so do a lot of other marksmen who can manage to ride that wave into the late game (whether that wave goes up or down). (AD) Ez just sinks at some point, and it sucks. At least, that's how playing him comes across these days. Could just be the meta, who knows maybe the AD itemisation changes could swing the game back in his favor a little.
: Oops my bad. I misread that sorry.
Sinoxa (OCE)
: Lane calling a nightmare... Lag? Glitch? Intentional!?!?!?!? [First to arrive on scene :C]
Hmmm.... WAIT!!............... > [{quoted}](name=Sinoxa,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZLewGUM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-19T17:35:56.871+0000) > MY FAVE CHAMPIONS: > {{summoner:12}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:75}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:8}} > > {{summoner:11}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:19}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:54}} > > {{summoner:14}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:268}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:103}} > > {{summoner:3}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:111}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:16}} > > {{summoner:7}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:22}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:29}} http://i.imgur.com/RJUVTl2.png > [{quoted}](name=Sinoxa,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZLewGUM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-19T17:35:56.871+0000) > MY FAVE CHAMPIONS: > {{summoner:12}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:75}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:8}} ... > [{quoted}](name=Sinoxa,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZLewGUM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-19T17:35:56.871+0000) > **MY FAVE CHAMPIONS:** > {{summoner:12}} _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ {{champion:75}}',,................... **{{champion:17}}** ...................,,{{champion:8}}' http://i.imgur.com/29neIyF.png Fear not, my friend. I have found the root cause to all of your troubles. --- On a more serious note, why not try teambuilder?
: Why don't people complain about Diana more?
No lifesteal. Has mana. Can only dash to a target once, requiring a conditional skillshot/spell to land to get a single reset. Easier to gank against and kite if you know how. Not as faceroll to win. All-in is just that, can't bunny hop out and come loaded with spammable hard CC. Can't AOE range execute. Can't split as well as Riven. Weak as hell pre-6, giving a fairly lengthy safety window. Erm... I don't see how Diana is anything like Riven, other than both being melee fighter/assassins.
: I LOVE the idea of W marking targets. They could make it like "Targets marked by essence flux have their armor and MR reduced by x% for y seconds". They could even make the percentage stack from Q hits which fits very well with his playstyle. The Armor/MR pen will help Ezreal's hybrid kit be much better late game and not need both LW and VS
You know it didn't occur to me to combine the two solutions in that way, lol. Was more concerned with identifying why and where we could change his kit, than overly the how. You're right though, there could be several variants possible whilst potentially drawing out his explorer theme. Also, a mark does sort of make sense considering his Q procs on-hits so it would synergise well with his kit e.g. mark with W through wave, follow up with well-aimed Q snipe in time and get rewarded for it somehow (either via some conditional utility or damage). So many possibilities. It's fun.
: ***
I never asked for true damage on Ez anywhere in my post... or specifically _maximum_ % of HP. Could end up being % current magic damage, idk, it's too far down the pipe to know for sure what would work best, they're merely logical suggestions post-analysis. Also didn't ask for CC, or wavecle... did you even read the post?!? Sorry, it's just I tried making the post flow as easily as I could (which i'm aware is not my forte since I like being thorough lol).
Nahara (NA)
: One of the things I remember reading about a while ago when some people were asking for some updates to Ezreal's kit was the fact that he's the Prodigal Explorer.... and yet his kit has nothing to do with his actual job. Sure, you can scout bushes with his abilities, but that's only really doable with Mystic Shot because of it's range. Having Essence Flux reveal hit targets sounds like an interesting step in that direction.
What you say is true. That way, he can also finally stand with the other 2 main Trinity Force ADCs (Kog, Corki) in also having a reveal - and both of whom are consistently picked on the competitive stage. Ezreal wants in. It's his time to shine again, dammit. Wait a sec, his ult already scouts... albeit once every 80 seconds. I know, it's not the same. ._. Good post. Some would say enlightening. xp
: Ezreal is unlikely to be a key recipient of changes in the marksman update. We threw some ideas around for him but never really settled on something we liked enough. It's quite possible he benefits from other pre-season changes quite well, though.
Hey RiotRepertoir, thanks for the response. I can see how that would turn out. However, would you guys potentially consider putting something like the above which requires not much implementation or art assets as a stopgap measure till you guys settle on a better, more long-term solution? You know, to tide us over till then? Also, could you give us some idea of what exactly you are looking to do with his kit, is it a specific ability (W) or is it something more holistic that you guys want to do like a full on rework down the line? Just so we can better understand the complexities and scope involved and possibly offer some further ideas if you can help to narrow down the criteria.
Rioter Comments
: What if Quinn could switch in and out of Valor form at will...
Would be cool, but would require some means of gating the bonus effects. If only [someone, somewhere](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4626644), perhaps from a long since forgotten time, could help us with this task (╯◕_◕)╯. Tl;dr - Basically I took all the bonus effects off the ultimate, so switching back and forth was seamless and gave no bonus effects thus dropping the cooldown to ~6-3s. Threw in a counter when playing as Quinn, whilst Valor "rested", which charged up stacks. On switching, consume ALL stacks, give bonus effect if stacks met bonus effect threshold i.e. gain movement speed as Valor if rested enough, gain Skystrike if switching to Valor when having MAX stacks. Charge rate of counter to max stacks would imitate current cooldown of Skystrike, so there would be no difference, you'd basically choose to either switch to Valor for a brief movement speed bonus in exchange for an even longer cooldown (since you'd have reset the counter), or let Valor rest longer so when you switch Valor can travel as fast as her current ult and be capable of performing Skystrike. Bam. Yw. xP ==================== Also, it wouldn't be as bad as most people make out tbh, comparing them to Nid/Elise who don't share cooldowns or even use mana in one form whilst also have unique abilities which would typically generate such a problem. Nah, it's manageable if done right. People generally think about the worst case scenario, you gotta build up a case rather than just drop it like a bomb, although you will still get people who take a glance at the title, barely understood what was proposed and then insta-neg lol.
: "We nerfed Ezreal's W, because almost no one could trade against him with the attack speed slow"
Her Passive and Rend are her biggest tools outside of her ult, but they're also by their very nature broken simply because they have no cap other than at the rate at which you apply them i.e. up to a maxed out attack speed. Rather than hitting her AD, it would've made more sense for Riot to reduce the benefit she got from attack speed like how crit damage isn't as strong on Yasuo despite still synergising with crit chance to a fairly large degree to more than compensate for it and whilst at the same time keeping him in check. Controlling her attack speed would also reduce the number of stacks she can get in, in addition to how often she can hop around, effectively hitting two birds with one stone. Gutting her AD makes less sense than targeting her attack speed. Although the wind-up was at least touched on, so i'll give them that. So if you want to suggest further nerfs, i'd recommend taking a look at her attack speed from base/lvl18 -> BotRK -> Runaan's and identifying where she's too strong on the power-curve whilst maybe consider reverting nerfs elsewhere to keep her viable or at the very least in a playable state. Edit: I will say they're making it really easy for ADCs to remain dominant since nerfing/removing all these attack speed slows from Randuin's, to Lee Sin's E, and even nerfing armor items in general (but then overbuffing their Juggernaut lineup, before rotating back to ADCs after shitting on the assassins and handing out AP reitemisation). Meh.
: QoL changes for Ezreal (Both AD and AP)
Hmm.. Like the adaptable Q, kind of like Nid, it would make sense on his hybrid kit. Not sure about the heal though, cool as it sounds, it just seems a bit unnecessary.
: well im not arguing anything here but varus and kog do not have %hp true dmg, kog has flat true damage on his passive and only vayne out of adc's has %hp true dmg
Didn't say they did. It's a category of %HP OR true damage.. that's what the slash is for. Hence "%HP**/**true damage - like Vayne/Varus/Kog/etc." and assumed people would be able to figure out which one I was referring to with each, instead of requiring me to make up a table I went with a brief list to summarise lol. All three have lower cooldown %HP damage, magic on Varus/Kog and true damage on Vayne. Plus the flat on Kog's passive I guess.
: Right now Riot has said that Ezreal is in a decent place with the exception of his W. They've said most marksmen will be receiving a change to one or two of their abilities so Ezreal's W will likely be redesigned when the marksman update starts. The W was great when it stole attack speed and healed allies but now it just feels pointless except to maybe push towers with allies slightly faster.
I was hoping so too, but apparently they decided to not bother with finding out a means of making W useful. You could say at least they know W is weak, but they've known that for going on years now and still cba with it. Which is a shame 🔔🔔. > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5xifUFME,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-09-22T22:47:45.732+0000) > > I don't think Ezreal is receiving an update outside of maybe some tuning changes and/or stat adjustments. While we thought he could use some work (his W is especially lame), we didn't land on an idea that was fitting for him, and so we went with some other characters that we thought we had better directions on.
: Jokes aside, I think a little self-heal when E'ing through your W would be quite nice for him. Sacrifice mana for health, a nice trade off. The numbers could be like: 50/75/100/125/150 + 40% Bonus AD and it only applies to himself. Doing this cost him up to 140/150/160/170/180 Mana and it costs him his only escape, which is very dangerous for Ezreal. Thoughts?
Idk, I feel like it's too much effort/wasted resources just to heal himself (2 spells + 1 escape) that he could probably get from lifestealing anyway so he doesn't really _need_ it. Also Kindreds healing passive doesn't even need to use up a single spell to get nearly the same effect, but that's apples to oranges and suits them better than it would Ez. I guess it doesn't really do much to help him other than give him a bit of sustain if he's feeling wasteful/bored. He wouldn't really do it in-combat unless he was burning alive at low HP but chances of that late game are pretty low (also he'd be oom in two rotations if he tried that during laning). If he's targeted and gets that low without having already used E, then that Ez has bigger problems that no buff can fix cuz that is one dumbass Ez. I mean.. err.. I like your other suggestion for an adaptable Q better, would be a lot more useful in a game.
: Ezreal in this pic be like "I CAME"
... 10/10 feedback lol. I did ask for it though I guess. Never thought of the image in that way though xp. Cannot.. unsee.. Dx
Norr1N (NA)
: @Riot: Is Ezreal Part of the "Marksman Update"? (+Analysis/Discussion)
Anyone got any feedback? Good? Bad? Who cares he's too pretty? :c
: I don't think Ezreal is receiving an update outside of maybe some tuning changes and/or stat adjustments. While we thought he could use some work (his W is especially lame), we didn't land on an idea that was fitting for him, and so we went with some other characters that we thought we had better directions on.
OMG, I _just_ made [an entire thread analysing and coming up with a viable solution to this very problem](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/sVlwJLKp-riot-is-ezreal-part-of-the-marksman-update-analysisdiscussion) after seasons of playing him... you might find it useful (plsss give it a looky ._.). I would love some feedback either way if you have time. Domo arigato.
Eggbread (NA)
: I think she is in the Juggernauts-style rework section. Probably not a full Gameplay or Visual update, but enough to be considered some form of rework.
Did the Juggernauts get any visual improvements or was it all gameplay-specific?
  Rioter Comments
: Could "Juggernaut" Become a New Role?
Bruisers/fighters/juggernauts basically the same thing - fairly tanky champions who can dish out some damage but have maybe one CC spell e.g. Sion, Garen, Darius, J4, etc., and then there are true Tanks which are more support-oriented because they come with less/almost negligible damage but pack a lot more CC/utility into their spells along with innate health/resistances e.g. Rammus, Leona, Shen, Nautilus, etc. At least, that's how I see it. Being tanky != tank. Could be a secondary tank, but not _as_ effective as primary tanks who build the same items. Also primary tanks almost always deal magic damage since it doesn't drop off as hard a physical damage whilst prioritising defensive scaling instead of with offensive items like the bruighternauts (new term/role? xp).
Show more

Norr1N

Level 30 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion