: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XuzcrfJ1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-08T22:24:41.053+0000) > Varus: Human. He got it on a technicality ("humans are animals, guys") and everyone looked at him funny for a _ long _ time. Human because they have not updated his lore since the "our kind?" comic where darkins were aliens that brought blood magic into runetera. Another abandoned champion just pushed to fit the current lore
Nah, they updated his bio when Aatrox got reworked.
fròstý (NA)
: What did the 3 current Darkin look like before they were corrupted?
Aatrox: Owl. He's awed by the majesty of flight and loves their regal faces. Rhaast: Goat. He admires their appetite for chaos and enthusiasm for climbing anything. Varus: Human. He got it on a technicality ("humans are animals, guys") and everyone looked at him funny for a _ long _ time.
: Thresh turned evil from the constant encouragement from the relics, but he only got to stay because he was really good at his job. If I remember correctly, everyone knew he was corrupt, but decided he was best kept in his role (and he never betrayed them either I think, so in a way they were right)
I read his lore and there's no mention of anyone being aware he was corrupt. It just said the monks picked him because he had a "strong will."
: How Does Zyra Eat?
If she stands with both feet in the ground she can absorb nutrients from the soil. Unfortunately for the Kumungu jungle, dead people have more nutrients in them than soil does.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackKnightJack,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nKMOAEP8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T14:21:38.494+0000) > > his innate malice. For years the relics preyed on his insecurities, taunting him with his deepest fears and feeding his bitterness._ So he had evil tendencies and thoughts in his mind even without the magic's effect on him. Still he could have been a somewhat decent person without the influence of dark magicks
Problem is it never really specifies how evil his tendencies were. Sure he's got "innate malice" but is that the "Steve told me my shoes are ugly so I'm gonna splash mud on his shoes" kind of malice or the "gosh I sure would love to kick a puppy right now" kind of malice?
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nKMOAEP8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T14:17:25.018+0000) > > He did? News to me, where's it say that? _The vault Thresh guarded was buried deep beneath the citadel at the center of an island chain and protected by runic sigils, arcane locks and potent wards. Spending such time in the presence of dark spells began to affect Thresh as the magic sought out his innate malice. For years the relics preyed on his insecurities, taunting him with his deepest fears and feeding his bitterness._ Seems it wasn't boredom that broke Thresh, but being surrounded by all that dark magic. He was strong-willed, but not strong enough. Still, I like the idea that it was sheer boredom that broke him better.
Personally I like the spooky factor of the relics better, but the important thing is we agree he didn't start out evil.
: He wasn't. He became a sadist out of sheer boredom.
He did? News to me, where's it say that?
Rioter Comments
Lapis (OCE)
: I mean, it's an interesting idea, but also really gross?? I don't think I'd like to see that thing in game.
Hecarim wouldn't need to be completely flayed like Nuckel up there. He's got armor and ghost skin and such. I DO think the Nuckelavee conveys the "horrifying man-horse fusion" bit a bit better than a centaur, simply because centaurs have a reputation in fantasy of sometimes not being nightmarish death machines.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WnMvPPNg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-22T15:50:06.515+0000) > > That quote's not from his current bio, his older bios, OR his color story. I get you're angry about the direction of the lore with good guys and bad guys, but where in the world are you getting "Viktor wants to commit actual literal genocide" from? > > Anyway, the point in this thread was that Full Metal Jayce ISN'T canonically a jerk based on the skin lore we have. "Adapt or be removed" "Relinquish the flesh." "SUBMIT TO MY DESIGNS." "Destroy, then improve...." And the machine Viktor built: "EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE." "THE TIME OF MAN HAS COME TO AN END." gee where would I get the idea that maybe, i dont know, Viktor is an omnicidal tyrant bent on eradicating all flesh-based life from? >When Viktor re-emerged, almost no trace of the original man remained. Not only had he supplanted the majority of his anatomy, but his personality had changed. His previous hope to better society was replaced by an obsession with what he called Glorious Evolution 'the glorious evolution'. He saw himself as the patron and pioneer of Valoran's future - a future in which man would renounce his flesh in favor of superior hextech augmentations
Ohhh, you mean the outdated VO that in no way matches his or his son's lore. My bad, I assumed that wasn't relevant. And of course, the bit from his bio that comes right before the hundreds of lives he saved. Sorry chief, I'm not buying it.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WnMvPPNg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-22T15:13:17.585+0000) > > Exterminate....? Nah, that's not him. If you're that hype for a transparently evil Viktor, his Creator skin is closer. Regular Viktor just thinks robot parts will improve your life, and given the crappy working conditions and resultant lost limbs in Zaun he's definitely onto something. "Revolutionize humanity by turning all organic life into machines!" In no way can that sentence be read in any way that does not imply mass genocide, nor should it ever be the principle goal of a good person. Isn't Jayce's title, "*The Defender* of Tomorrow"? The scientist who works tirelessly to improve the working and social conditions of Zaun, using his inventions and machismo to smack around thugs and ne'er-do-wells at a moment's notice? Who decided to make THAT the bad guy? Oh, right; the same brainless yuppies who decided the literal angel should be obsessively cruel and evil, and the *LITERAL FALLEN ANGEL WHO FEEDS OFF OF PAIN* is the good girl who just wants to make daddy happy
That quote's not from his current bio, his older bios, OR his color story. I get you're angry about the direction of the lore with good guys and bad guys, but where in the world are you getting "Viktor wants to commit actual literal genocide" from? Anyway, the point in this thread was that Full Metal Jayce ISN'T canonically a jerk based on the skin lore we have.
Kazekiba (NA)
: What was the point of making Jayce a bad guy and Viktor a "misunderstood genius"? Why did Riot decide "hey this guy literally modeled after the Golden era Superman should be a right [jerk] for no reason. And in exchange, MechaHitler wants to exterminate all organic life but he's really just a good guy who didn't get laid in college :'("
Exterminate....? Nah, that's not him. If you're that hype for a transparently evil Viktor, his Creator skin is closer. Regular Viktor just thinks robot parts will improve your life, and given the crappy working conditions and resultant lost limbs in Zaun he's definitely onto something.
Rioter Comments
: Did Aatrox just doom the universe?
The good new is basically everyone hates the Void. Aurelion justifiably loathes the Aspects, but he's a big fan of existing so he'd probably fight the Void even without the Aspects. Self-preservation and all that. The only issue with Aurelion being slightly less enslaved is he's one step closer to glorious, bloody vengeance that might have some tragic collateral damage.
Falrein (EUW)
: Syndra's timeline and her cursed name
Syndra becoming a mythical figure is scary in more ways than one. There's the whole business of incredible power gone wrong, sure. But it also means that everyone learned the *wrong lesson*. As far as we know, the tale of Syndra doesn't focus on the people who pushed her over the edge in the first place. The children who bullied her until she *bled* and the parent who let them get away with it. The lesson, then, isn't "treat one another with respect", but "control your emotions when people torment you." It puts all responsibility (and therefore all blame) on victims of mistreatment (like Syndra initially was) and none on bullies or permissive adults. If that's what balance means, I'm with Syndra: Let's bring that sucker down.
: isnt it pretty clear that Rhaast was always an ascended first?
No because he's got about four sentences of lore, only one and a half of which could possibly be about his Ascended form. That's why I made this post: I had a different idea and decided to see what I could do to back it up.
: Conspiracy theory: The Crownguards killed Jarvan III
And who better to "investigate" Jarvan III's tragic death than the Mageseekers? After all, there's a mage rebellion going on. Mageseekers like, maybe, Tianna and Mr. Tianna would be highly qualified to ~~erase any signs of~~ look into the possibility of foul play.
: Isn’t Rhaast mentioned in the story where the Darkin get defeated? Iirc they refer to him as a fellow Darkin/Ascended so it seems like he would exist independently.
The mention is Naganeka remarking that Rhaast wanted to kill Xuyaan personally. They don't specifically say he's an Ascended in the two sentences of lore he got, only that he'd be mad Ta'anari killed Xuyaan because he wanted to do it himself. Which as a scythe who can possess people, he could still in theory do.
Rioter Comments
Manxxom (NA)
: So rhaast was a god warrior of shurima?
Void-PTSD plus 1400 years in an eternal torture prison isn't a good recipe for a psychologically stable individual. Odds are Rhaast was a lot closer to a regular dude before all that went down. The problem is that we only see him post-Things Going Horribly Wrong, so from our perspective he's always been like that.
Rioter Comments
: This attitude that you are entitled to a tip for doing your job is the real issues here. You are not. It is a gratuity. As I said, if you are friendly and do your job well your tips will reflect this. If not your tips will reflect that as well. And for things being out of your control, it once again shows you not willing or have no desire to provide a high level of service. If you merely serve what the cooks prepare, knowing it is wrong in some way that is your fault. Step it up. Be an advocate for the patron. Be friendly and courteous and genuinely interested in serving and I guarantee your tips will be better than you can imagine. However, continue bitching and taking a negative attitude into work and I can pretty much guarantee your schedule is going to start freeing up more and more. If you came to me to do work for you, and I did it half assed, showed no real concern for you, past the blame for mistakes that I recognized and did nothing to correct until you called me on it and them pit it off on others, you would be the first person on here screaming to never use my services. Yet this is how many if not all servers in this area behave and your response is tip us anyway because we don't make much money! Get a clue!
Either this is an advanced-level metaphor that went over my head, or you may have possibly replied to the wrong post.
Rioter Comments
: If you are going to continue to release more Little Legends..
You mean I can't just BUY the Little Legend I want like I can for every single Champion and a majority of skins? Hold up, I need to visit the RANT forum
GreenLore (EUW)
: You are making a lot of assumptions here. First of all, the aspects definitely need Aurelion, after all Pantheon was unable to close the void rift, wheras it was childs play for Aurelion Sol, showing just how effective he is as a weapon against the void. And sure they also used him for their own wars, but we know nothing about these wars. These wars might have been with other forces of evil out there in the cosmos. Also it was never said that the aspects could have killed the other darkin themselves. They already used their depower-trick to get as many of them as possible, but that only worked because they managed to peacefully gather the darkin in one place.
Assumptions? You mean like the assumption that Targon's other wars might have been with other forces of evil? Like the assumption that the Aspects HAD to seal the Darkin? Like the assumption that Targon MUST enslave people for the greater good? I'm seeing a lot of assumptions here, and they're not mine.
Rioter Comments
: While I definitely think Aatrox got done dirty, I don't think he's entirely blameless either. There's no indication that Aatrox didn't participate in the Darkin wars and enslaved humans as much as any other Ascended. Pretty much the only Ascended who are entirely blameless are: Nasus, who was around during that time but _did not_ get put into a weapon, since Targon/the Aspect of Twilight clearly knew he wasn't involved; Azir, who was technically dead the whole time and didn't Ascend until much later; and maybe Renekton, who was trapped with Xerath. I think the fact that Aatrox was put into a weapon with all the rest is a pretty good indication that he was just as bad as the rest. No doubt Targon are not blameless either, they clearly don't treat mortals as much more than tools or assets in most cases.
Oh for sure, the Darkin were jerks and that's putting it gently. The issue is that the Aspects are *also* jerks.
GreenLore (EUW)
: But sometimes the end can justify the means. Sure this kind of logic is often used as a false justification for a villains plan, but that doesn't mean that this can never apply. The reason why it often fails so often in real life is because the situations in real life are far more complex than the one presented in Leagues lore. If 5 babies lie on a train track and the motorman could save them by changing tracks, which however would kill a grandma that lies on the other track, then would it be morally wrong to change tracks? Would it be wrong to kill one old woman to save 5 young babies? And now look at it from the aspects point of view. On the current track lies the entirety of the universe, literally an infinite amount of lives, and on the other track lies aurelions freedom. Would it be really wrong of them to change tracks? Its honestly the same for the darkin. The darkin were a huge threat to all of runeterra(as Ta'anari said "even a wounded god warrior could end up conquering the whole world"). They didn't design prisons for the darkin just to torture them, they did that because they hand't any other means to end the suffering of the humans.
Hard pass on this one, chief. You've created a false dichotomy where the Aspects can EITHER torture and enslave OR do nothing and let the Void win. There are absolutely more than two options. The Aspects could have just killed ALL the Darkin, as evidenced by them wiping out the majority. They kept a few around because they thought it'd be useful. Now the whole world has to pay for it. And the Aspects have used Aurelion for a hell of a lot more than dealing with the Void. He "fought Targon's wars, crushed any threats to its dominance, and helped it forge a star-spanning empire" on top of dealing with the Void threat. The Aspects did not enslave Aurelion Sol for the "greater good." They did not ASK him to deal with the Void and then he said no. They never gave him that option. They did it because they wanted to use him.
: Damn straight. Atreus got the right idea. All hail Atreus, the slayer of gods. I am more than pleased with Pantheon's new lore. They made him the fucking alpha we always knew him to be.
Heck, he can kill the Darkin too while he's at it. Death's a better fate than an eternal torture prison AND it prevents them from coming back and murdering the world again.
Naalith (NA)
: I'm not sure why the Aspects didn't just lock him in a Targonian vault or throw him into space, it feels like the sword being left in the hands of humans where it is eventually lost and picked by a moron is a terrible idea.
Because there isn't an Aspect of Planning Ahead.
GreenLore (EUW)
: The thing is that unlike in real life, there are actual threats that are inherently malevolent and with whom you can't argue with. The void wants to destroy all of reality and it will do exactly that if it isn't stopped. This makes the conflict with the void a morally black and white one. Also the aspects didn't imprison the darkins themselves (they did kill several of them, but the remaining ones were too difficult to kill even for them), they merely built the tools for that. However in the end it were the humans who imprisoned the darkins, not the aspects, they made that choice. And last but not least I want to mention that we still don't know a lot about the aspects internal structures and connections. Some of them did enslave Aurelion Sol, but that doesn't mean that all of them were really ok with that.
The other thing is that just like real life, the ends do not justify the means. The Aspects oppose the Void, that's real nice. You know who else opposes the Void? Everyone who wants to exist. The Aspects having a basic sense of self-preservation does not make everything they do in pursuit of that goal okay. The Darkin enslaving, murdering, and oppressing the world was wrong not because of their internal structures or because they did it for selfish reasons, but because slavery, murder, and oppression are inherently wrong. Likewise, the Aspects enslaving A. Sol was wrong because slavery is *still* inherently wrong no matter who's doing it. Humanity would not have been able to seal the Darkin in eternal torture prisons if the Aspect of Twilight hadn't set them up. She gave the humans the tools to accomplish her goal so that she could deny accountability. Because that's what Aspects do. They use people. TL;DR: Cool motive, still slavery.
: The first one doesn't even let you grasp just what they did to Aatrox, and why he's so salty about it (Rightfully so). What they did to him was pretty much imagine being unable to move, or feel, see, etc. You can do nothing but think and wait. For eternity. Aatrox has had nothing but time on his hands to think about his situation, the only time they (the darkin) can feel, or experience what it's like to be more than a sentient void, is when some dumbass decides to pick them up, and one day, people are going to be smart enough to realize that hey, maybe we SHOULDNT pick up this mind controlling weapon, that will take over our bodies and minds, essentially killing us. There is EVERY reason in the world that the darkin should feel upset. Rhaast, Va(a)rus, they don't quite understand it because they weren't as powerful as Aatrox, and they haven't quite realized what being trapped in that weapon means, they're just excited to kill/wreak vengeance on the world. Aatrox has the most to lose, and has suffered the most for it, and he wasn't even the bad guy. Aatrox (like all darkin) was once an ascended warrior, and his main goal was to fight the void. He retained that, watched as his fellow ascended were corrupted from their skirmishes with the void, and watched them turn on each other, just for the aspect of whatever the fuck Zoe is, to racially profile him with the rest of the darkin, and teach people how to lock him away into a weapon as well, which is why he hates Zoe so much. "I don't know what their problem is, but the targons are literal fucking assholes." - {{champion:266}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:131}} . Aatrox hates the gods for a reason. Pikachu face is right, these motherfuckers should've seen this coming a mile away and it's no one elses fault but their own. Aatrox is the amalgamation of all that they deserve.
It's true and you should say it. The Darkin were murdering/oppressing/enslaving the world and they needed to be stopped. Heck, you could make the argument they needed to pay. But they did NOT need to be locked in *eternal torture prisons* in case Targon wanted to exploit them at a later date. And a torture that will not end until the universe does is disproportionate retribution for even their crimes. And yeah, having a space dragon to throw at the Void is pretty darn handy. But that doesn't justify enslaving him. I'm rooting for A. Sol and Aatrox on this one. Diana can join, too.
Jaspers (EUW)
: What reason did the Darkin have to exploit, enslave and kill other humans? Just because their leader died? None. They weren't fighting the Void, they were mad men who wanted nothing but power. Darkin have no saving grace, unlike Aspects who were naive in how they handled things but are doing it for the greater good. Sacrifice Runeterra, use beings of untold power to defeat a greater evil, save the universe. Worth it.
I'm not saying the Darkin were good. I'm saying the Aspects are also terrible. Freakin' *Mordekaiser* is a good guy if wanting to save the universe you live in counts as a saving grace. He's saving it from the cycle of life and death, and would absolutely fight the Void to prevent it from threatening what he sees as his by right. He defeats the greater evil of fading away upon death. Now to be clear, I'm not saying Morde is actually a good guy. I'm saying it's easy to justify any atrocity if you use the excuse of a greater good. It's easy to say that enslaving star dragons and fallen foes is for the greater good when you're not one of the slaves.
GreenLore (EUW)
: To the individual it doesn't make a lot of difference if they die because of the aspects or because of the darkin, however thats a very subjective view on that matter and its one that doesn't look at the whole picture. And sure if a character in the LoL-universe sees these 2 factions like this, then that would be understandable, but we the players can see the bigger picture and from what we can see the aspects are generally more benevolent than the darkin, with the most sympathetic darkin being {{champion:266}} the guy who wants to destroy everything and kill everyone in the hope that this MIGHT help him with his own problem. While the worst we've seen from an aspect(talking about the spiritual being, not the human host) was enslaving {{champion:136}} which they obviously did because they needed his power to guard the universe and he wasn't interested in helping out on his own.
Okay, I'll grant that the Aspects are more benevolent than the Darkin. But that's about the lowest bar you could possibly clear. They're still unrepentant slavers. Something being done for the "greater good" doesn't make the action itself any less terrible. Look at what people in real life have justified with the greater good. Sol's not any less enslaved because the Aspects had good (read: self-preserving) intentions. Slavery and eternal torture prisons are morally reprehensible no matter how shiny your motives.
: Holy crap Aatrox actually IS a godslayer
Aspects: Nonlethally lock Aatrox inside a sword Aatrox: Busts out, declares war on the Aspects, and kills at least one of them Aspects: Surprised Pikachu face
GreenLore (EUW)
: Saying they are the same is kind of wrong though. Yes the aspects sometimes use humans as tools(this doesn't go for all though, Tarics aspect of the protector never imposed his will on Taric, as Taric was already perfect for him), but they do it for the greater good. The darkins on the other hand subdued the humans because they thought they were superior and deserve to rule over the weak. So while some of the aspects do some pretty horrible things they at least do them for good reasons, unlike the darkin, who comitted countless atrocities for their own gain.
They're the same if you're one of the humans who ends up as collateral damage. The "greater good" IS Targon's gain. They benefit very strongly from the destruction of the Void because it means they get to keep on existing. I'm sure the Darkin thought they had good reasons too, at first. Someone had to take charge after Azir died. But those intentions don't mean a whole lot to the people who suffered under their reign. Likewise, Targon's opposition of the Void doesn't justify them using people as (sometimes willing) tools.
Rioter Comments
: Are Little Legends canon?
Hauntling is canon in my heart.
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kAzK7may,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:10:55.076+0000) > > And now they can't really drop any of those plot points in Big Reveals because they've been sitting on them for too long. Everybody already knows, so Kass being like "No, I AM your father" to Kai'Sa is going to get zero audience reaction. > > We been knew, Riot. Then don't. Just accept that the community knows, confirm it, move on. Show me the aftermath of these characters finding out. Show me how Caitlyn reacts to finding out that they're siblings. Show me how Kassadin reacts to finding out that his daughter is not only alive but went down the same path he did. Fuck it, show me a romcom of Garen and Kat trying to hide their romance. The reveal is no longer the interesting part. What comes after and how the world changes around these characters is.
That would be a great solution AND it would be really good lore progression.
: Psst, Riot: WE GET IT.
And now they can't really drop any of those plot points in Big Reveals because they've been sitting on them for too long. Everybody already knows, so Kass being like "No, I AM your father" to Kai'Sa is going to get zero audience reaction. We been knew, Riot.
: Who would win aatrox vs mord?
Aatrox is a pretty big dude, but he's made out of meat so he'd be at least somewhat buoyant. Plus he could reshape his body to swim faster. Morde, on the other hand, is so darn heavy and metal he'd have to walk along the bottom of the pool, so he'd take way longer to get across. I'm giving this one to Aatrox. Oh, you mean like a _fight_ .
Arakadia (NA)
: Before Hecarim was a terrible person he was an honorable warrior though.
Briefly, yes, but by the time he showed up to the Blessed Isles where the altars are he was well into "terrible person" territory.
: New Mordekaiser Interaction in the Twisted Treeline
'Cause it's old. It's also got quotes to Hecarim telling him "Remember who you once were," except with his current lore who he once was was a terrible, terrible person.
: Qiyana is a Deliciously Villainous Protagonist and I am HERE for it
She's a wretched menace and I greatly appreciate that.
: I want to see a story of Morde recruiting Hecarim or Karthus to his army so badly.
Hecarim's sole goal in unlife is slaughter, so he wouldn't be too hard to convince. And he wouldn't be too hard to overpower either given how many times Kalista and Ledros have pulled it off. Karthus, on the other hand, has very specific ideas on what unlife should be like. He disapproves of Thresh keeping souls in a lantern, so he's definitely not going to be a fan of Morde turning them into bricks. Which means they'd probably fight. Which would be _so cool._ I'd put my money on Morde winning since he's basically a self-made god, but Karthus somehow managed to get a _mobile haunted building_ in his posse if that map art's anything to go by, so he'd definitely put up a heck of a fight. Dang it, now I want to see it too.
: I always thought they just sat around playing cards with Morde until his eventual resurrection
There's a lot of souls in that realm, though.... "No, it's _my_ turn to play Uno with the boss! Your turn's _next_ Monday." It'd probably be easier if the darn cards would stop wailing.
  Rioter Comments
: PBE Update: Demacia Vice Garen & Lucian
I, for one, welcome our new neon overlords. They blend tacky with fantastic amazingly well.
: Aren't Kayn and Rhaast partners? Without each other, they aren't a champion. Both are integral parts of the kit. Without Rhaast, Kayn is nothing.
Without Rhaast, Kayn is is a copyright-friendly Sasuke Uchiha.
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