Rioter Comments
: Cities, nation, and overall region pride
Some of the art in the Riot Forge announcement looked Zaunite. It's possible there might even be a single-player game set in Zaun. But if we're talking "represent your favorite region" tournament, it's Shadow Isles for me.
: Revolution Runeterra
I like that you collected all the "bloody revolution" types in one post. What do you think this all means going forward?
: Why I feel "Child of Zaun" missed the mark. [Spoilers]
Those were some rad fight scene suggestions. I enjoyed the story we got, but something like that would have improved it. Good point on Caitlyn, too. She did a cool thing in the final battle but I didn't really get a "partners in crimebusting" vibe from her and Vi.
tamaya (NA)
: The Solari never saw the light of day.
On one hand, when we last saw Leona she was trying to reform them away from hunting heretics for sport. On the other hand, I don't think we've seen a single Solari outside Leona's content _not_ be a horrible, genocidal monster.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 10: Canticle of the Winged Sisters vs Snow Day
On one hand, I find it a bit difficult to believe that a Yordle who hunts with a boomerang doesn't know what death is. On the other hand, the story was still pretty cute.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 8: Adaptation vs Message on a Blade's Edge
I went for Kat's because the story about her was from her perspective. I like having Voidborn content, but I was a little bummed that _Kha'Zix's_ story was being told by someone who wasn't Kha'Zix. Vel'Koz got a phenomenal story recently where we briefly got to see how he thought. I was hoping for something similar with Kha'Zix.
: > [{quoted}](name=tamaya,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6E68WA99,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-12-08T12:38:28.443+0000) > > {{champion:202}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:202}} Jhin is not sympathetic. I said sure, give characters like Thresh more depth and character. but the OP is talking more about just making them "aww poor guy, give him a break" characters. Jhin is not someone I pity, I still think he is a great character. Thresh I think is even worse than Jhin. but I love him for his malice. I DO think it would be cool to have him in more and see his character in action more, like with the story of Ledros. instead, we have Jhin being a star villain of a story while Thresh, who has been around a lot longer, gets a brief video of fighting Lucian
> but the OP is talking more about just making them "aww poor guy, give him a break" characters. I'm not, though? I never said that. Had a whole thing specifically saying that giving a character depth doesn't de-villainize or woobify them. I'm glad you agree with the point I _actually made_ about more depth and character, but I'm not big on you misrepresenting me.
: I can see your point on Thresh, but while it's valid, I feel he's the only character in the game that has this problem to quite the extent that he does. And, on top of that, he *does* have some background. The whole Shadow Isles region is a bit flat, though, and I feel that Thresh is just a reflection of that. It's sort of an interesting part of the lore, but the champions in it lack motivation. With Rhaast, I think you're oversimplifying. He's locked in a struggle for control with Kayn. I feel it's realistic for his character to be somewhat wrapped up in that struggle for the present time. That was kind of the character concept. I wouldn't argue that Rhaast isn't a champion, but I *do* think it's valid to say he's *half* of a champion. Joker isn't that interesting without Batman, either, frankly, but that's ok. When I view him that way, I like him. Rhaast and Kayn are *both* a bit lacking individually; it's their entwined fates that make them different from the rest of the roster (ok, except Varus, but that's a whole other thing tbh).
Those are some pretty good points. I _am_ glad that so many of League's villains have the depth they do, I just wish they _all_ did because that would be sweet as hell. And Kayn also suffers from a bit of lack, but he's still got a backstory. I want Rhaast to have the same level of depth Kayn has at the _least_, but they'd both benefit from a lot more.
Kazekiba (NA)
: I hope Riot never retcons Veigars raison d'etroix or whatever the phrase is. Yordles are intrinsically social and go literally insane without play partners. Veigar was jailed for 50 years..... ~~Ziggs is probably a similar explanation. No friends cuz his interests were dangerous and against Yordle norms, isolation turned him into the mad bomber.~~ Thresh was corrupted by angry souls from being around them so long, and Rhaast was an Ascended who slowly became corrupted by the Void after centuries of fighting them and being around Icathia because that's how the Void works- Essentially he is to Azir or Nasus what Malzahar is to normal people or Kassadin. I disagree those aren't deep characters. The Darkin and Thresh are Riots best writing in YEARS.
I'm with you on the Veigar one. Love the dude's bio and color story. Yeah he's cartoonishly evil, but it was pretty clearly spelled out why he tries to act that way. My beef about Rhaast is the stuff we have about him is inferred. Aatrox and Varus got motives and bios and stuff, and Rhaast is just kinda there. And Thresh _did_ have the angry souls in his older bio, but the updated one (around Senna's champ release) cut the corruption aspect out. Now he just got mean from run-of-the-mill neglect.
: Counterpoint. That's not realistic in every case. I like vilaines with depth but that shouldn't mean that every guy who just wants to do "evil" stuff should be obsolete. Runeterra isn't a single story, it's a universe. And a universe has lots of elements in it.
Of course not _every_ guy. I would never impugn the ~~Tiny~~ Terrifying Master of Evil Veigar's supreme dedication to all that is vile and foul.
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EAIZncnt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-07T00:32:12.841+0000) > > More game ideas: > -Play as a poro. Snuggle the entire Champion roster > -Play as a Little Legend and do little quests for the Champions in your region > -Reverse horror game where you play as the Void and spawn sins against existence to devour Runeterra > -Massive dating sim featuring every adult Champion Die Instantly for the first One because Aatrox cuts you in half. That last one would just be Wierd
Bold of you to assume poros can so easily die. I'm pretty sure if you tried to cut a poro in half you'd get either a critical miss or two poros.
Rioter Comments
GenoXx (NA)
: So Riot Forge was made....
More game ideas: -Play as a poro. Snuggle the entire Champion roster -Play as a Little Legend and do little quests for the Champions in your region -Reverse horror game where you play as the Void and spawn sins against existence to devour Runeterra -Massive dating sim featuring every adult Champion
  Rioter Comments
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 6: Halfway Between the Stars and Earth vs For Those Who Have Fallen
I love the way Soraka's story dealt with weakness. The girl in the story climbed the Mountain by herself because she hated being the only 'weak' one in the family. She was willing to throw her life away just for the chance to live up to her society's standards. And Soraka stopped her. Soraka didn't tell her that she had to be strong to have value, but that she was _already_ strong for making it this far. Soraka also told her that she would die if she kept going. Because sometimes a person's strength isn't enough, and that's okay. Sometimes they don't have the OP willpower to succeed in the face of overwhelming odds, and that's okay too. Like Soraka said, her paths are many. She doesn't have to die pointlessly to impress her family. She can chill out and have tea.
: Poros (because I don't have a good title)
I saw "poros" in the title, I clicked, I was not disappointed. Thank you for poro post.
: Hecarim's Largely Unjustified Ego
I just want to say I'm loving all the in-game comparisons you guys are coming up with because they make perfect sense for why Hecarim acts the way he does. It's really funny imagining 1/12/0 Hecarim spamming allchat and telling everyone else to git gud.
: The mist reinforces personalities if I remember right so maybe Hecarim was always some egotistical jerk then the mist gave him more of a reason to be one
From what his bio tells us of his actions in life, that tracks pretty well.
: He killed them in the first place. That's why he brags.
Rioter Comments
Falrein (EUW)
: "A shield against the Darkness" **_Darkness is a gift!_** _______________________ Both stories are really good, to be fair. I am still gonna go with Turmoil. I like the light tone of it. And admittedly I do have an anti-Sylas bias, but that may be because I've been oversaturated with him and the fact that he's gotten quite some content for such a recent champion. Story-wise, both stories are interesting. But Turmoil wins it for me because it shows the good in Demacia, which is something a lot of people have complained about. Also my Anthony Reynolds bias, I guess? :')
I agree on the "good in Demacia" part. I like Demacian Heart since it shows us Sylas before he was a huge jerk, but I like Turmoil better because it shows us that Demacia as a whole isn't a bunch of huge jerks. They actually care about each other and have personalities beyond "I'm a mage and my life sucks" and "I hate mages and probably also happiness". Except for Mageseekers, who really are just like that.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 2: The Winterspike Road vs The Final Reign
I _loved_ Final Reign, but a huge chunk of it just restated Morde's bio. Still, it at least gave us some new info about Morde. Winterspike was good worldbuilding (Noxus in Freljord, minotaur soldiers, etc.) but it didn't have a whole lot of Darius for a Darius story. So I'm going with Final Reign.
Jaspers (EUW)
: I actually think the lore behind Darkin is pretty filled out, we know who they are, why they exist all that. What you want is stories on the individual characters right? I'm fine with Varus and Aatrox stuff but the less about Rhaast we know the better. Some characters are better left as homicidal maniacs. Do people want characterisation or _humanity_ added to a nutjob who goes on about killing everything he sees?
> Do people want characterisation or _humanity_ added to a nutjob who goes on about killing everything he sees? Yes.
: I wonder if we will have more extension on the Darkin Lore
Obligatory Rhaast Lore When post. Now that's out of the way, I also do hope we learn more about Varus' sister. Hopefully when he gets a VO update it'll bring more info with it.
Rioter Comments
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SirEnds (NA)
: What is Your Favorite Champion Lore?
{{champion:30}} for his bio. The color story's good, but the bio's got some real juicy bits of unreliable narration. The Shadow Isles and Karthus' death on them are described so beautifully it almost - but not quite - distracts the reader from the horror of what's going on. Even the bit where he murders the fisherman is written like he's doing him a favor instead of, you know, murdering him. It's so darn creepy and I love it.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: It looks more like Thresh lost a key from his keychain.
That's Noxian propaganda, they don't want you to believe Demacians are smart enough to steal from ghosts.
Rioter Comments
: Cho'Gath Lore Directions (1 of 2)
Good points. Cho definitely needs to be more than an Apocalypse Maybe Soonish. Our other threats to the world have shown off what they can do. Morde made a murder empire, the Shadow Isles champs carve through NPCs in every story they're in, and we had that Ryze cinematic to show what World Runes can do. Cho likewise needs some kind of in-lore feat to give the audience a concrete example of why he's such a big deal.
Rioter Comments
: Little Legends
I like to imagine that Hauntlings are just really ineffectual ghosts. Like you're in the middle of a Harrowing and you feel something tugging on your pant leg and you look down to see this 1-foot blue toddler trying their level best to drag you away.
Falrein (EUW)
: What are your biggest fears regarding your favourite champions/regions' future?
Gee whiz, you're a regular mind-reader. Here are my two (or three) Big Worries: 1. Karthus. I'm worried that a lore "update" will scrap the part where he wants to help and just make him a generic Spooky Evil Preacher Guy. For me, the best part of Karthus' character is the vast chasm between how much he _thinks_ he's helping and how much he's _actually_ helping. I don't want him to lose that depth. 2. Rhaast. I'm worried about a potential "always evil" backstory when the dude finally gets, you know, a backstory. The point of the Darkin is that they _were_ decent people who then became terrible, not that they were terrible people who became worse. 3. Rhaast, Part 2. My biggest concern with Rhaast is personhood. I'll use Aatrox as an example. Aatrox is consistently referred to as a person, not a thing. A "he," not an "it." This in no way diminishes the evil of his actions, but reminds us that there's a person doing them. Rhaast, on the other hand, is mostly seen from Kayn's perspective. Kayn only knows him as a scythe. So to Kayn (and thus the reader), Rhaast is a thing, an "it". Instead of being a person trapped in a weapon, he's just a weapon. A thing that needs to be vanquished/dominated/controlled instead of a person who needs to be stopped. It's like a really, really bad take on the Venom symbiote. I don't want Riot to double down on that rhetoric, 'cause dehumanization is wrong no matter who you're doing it to.
: I think until we have more information lore we can't make a ruling on anything. Assuming Baccai are disabled (or just a different kind of transformation), assuming it was voluntary (or not), assuming if it was physical (or mental), and other factors. All I can say if it was volunteered for then they are either not understanding what they are signing up for, or are fools who don't think it can fail. At the end of the day I don't really think it matters too much. It's just League Lore, some people geek out on it, some people just like the game. I am 50/50, lore is nice, but I'm not so attached to it that it affects me enjoying the game. As far as things go if the Baccai signed up voluntary it's their fault for not thinking they could fail, not seeing it as an outcome, or they were fine with their place if they failed. While you can blame it on Shurima or an emperor, they still had a choice. Perhaps that choice was slavery, servitude, death, or perhaps something else, but regardless they did this willingly, and if they did so unwillingly, well sucks to be them I guess. I don't really see a situation I feel bad for them at all. The only situation I could see this being a problem is if they promised great things with no downsides, and never told anyone of the possibility of failure. If they ended up disabled it's only their fault if they were never informed of this possibility, or it was a new process and no one new and this was the result. However it isn't a new process, the result is known. Either they had the choice and willingly took the risk, or had no choice in the matter. This would lead to them being criminals, condemned, or something along those lines where becoming ascended or failing and becoming a Baccai are the only options, at that point it's a hail mary play. Things have to be taken under the correct lens. This isn't a 1st world country in today's year of 2019. This is Year XXXX in fantasy land Runeterra. Different value systems, levels of comfort, and goverment all have roles to play. Let's say worst case scenario is Shrumia does this, full knowledge, and just executes them as you say, peoples fault for not revolting, either they are to weak to revolt, or they don't see it as a problem either. Whatever direction they take I just don't hope it goes to hard left SJW or hard boomer right. I hope they keep politics out of gaming, but if they have to they at least tell a good story at least. Either way it will be interesting to see if Riot screws up, or if they can tell a good story. Popcorn will be made either way.
You lost me with the lack of empathy for people getting murdered for being disabled and lost me again at "It's the oppressed people's fault for not revolting b/c they're too weak." Miss me with that Noxian-flavored victim-blaming.
: While I don't know anything about the specifics, I believe that the implication was "demented beyond recognition and turned grotesque", rather than "disabled". I also think that it would be absurdly painful for that to happen to you, and you wouldn't want to live on like that. You became, in the eyes of your society, an absolute failure. You went from "rising to honor of the highest magnitude" to "worse than a peasant" in a fraction of a second. I'm not sure on the specifics, but I'd assume rituals were available to be seen by the public-- or at least a few people-- in which case you not only have taken that fall, but have people to witness it. The important take away is that this is not only incredibly devastating to the mental health of the Baccai, but equivalent to breaking every bone in your body and then being dumped into a pile of flames. This is very different from losing a limb. Edit: To note: because Ascension was also voluntary, to fail would be absolutely crushing, which further feeds into the comment about "I came seeking the highest peak but instead lost everything" and what that would do to their mental health.
Those are all good reasons why being a Baccai would suck. But they don't mean that Baccai aren't disabled. They may or may not be in chronic pain, their bodies are the "wrong" shape, and as you said, their mental state isn't likely to be the picture of health either. Neither are they good reasons for putting them to death. We don't murder people because we decide they're suffering too much, and the Baccai lore we got says nothing about their deaths being voluntary. Heck, even people who want to do it with a doctor's assistance can't in many places. Of course failing to ascend would be terrible. But the solution isn't for some heavy-handed do-gooder to pull a Karthus and try to murder your problems away. The important takeaway is that Shurima failed as a society with its treatment of failed Ascended. No amount of suffering or bodily malformation makes it okay to declare someone worthless and kill them, _especially_ against their will.
: There is so much I would like to know but for a while now, the kind of stories I would like to read is about the darkins specially Rhaast (even though you dont consider him a champion since its more about Kayn) and Aatrox. I would like some tails of their mortal form and how they acsended. I would like know how they looked at their best and maybe how they felt into the darkness. That would be nice
Oh absolutely. I need me that Rhaast lore.
Riot Pls (NA)
: Future Stories
Poros stopping a Harrowing by snuggling all the ghosts. Ghosts have no complaints.
: We know almost nothing about the Baccai, and it's not a given that they all are violent. And even if they knew what they got into, even if they literally signed a contract allowing to be killed if it went wrong, killing them is still not the right thing to do.
I can see why Shurima would do it, as DerMangoJoghurt pointed out, but you're right in saying that it's still unethical to do.
: Pretty sure Baccai were incredibly violent. Not that they choose to be this way but pretty sure all were like this. They more or less got a needed death for screwing up. Pretty sure Ascension was voluntary, so they knew what they were getting into. Can't have monsters wanting to slaughter people running around. That is to say if I recall correctly.
All two of the lore bits on Baccai don't mention them being violent, just "twisted and malformed." Judging by the pics we've got, I'm pretty sure that meant physically. And who cares if Ascension was voluntary? They're still murdering people who got crippled in the process.
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Jacksin (OCE)
: My theory on Icathia
That's a really neat idea for lore progression.
Zeanix (OCE)
: Will... Pulsefire Thresh have the prestige version???
Between him and Azir we'll be up to our ears in golden birdmen.
Rioter Comments
: Not only that. Because they burn themselves so much trying to prove their worth, and don't want to think they are weak, what's the logical conclusion if they fail? Someone is working against them. It happened in a lot of highly meritocratic systems like Nazi Germany or Rome. In the end, because you want to succeed, and you are convinced the person working to achieve the same position as you is conspiring against you, you are going to cheat against them in return. It doesn't matter if your actions against this person damage the goals of your nation in the long term. You have achieved the position you deserved, and you have proved to be strong. Noxians will constantly sabotage one another to prove thier own worth against the others. And that, just like happened with Nazi Germany and many competing military and intelligence sections inside the USA during the Cold War, is going to harm the empire on the long term, because you are sabotaging plans that would benefit the nation, just to benefit you.
Geez, that's a good point. They're like an empire of Skaven but less cute.
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: Demacia Campaign
That's a good summary of what could be going on.
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