: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
First things first, why in the would would you guys double down on RNG after the community at large is against it. Secondly, Please tell me you are going to give the weakest early JGs buffs to compensate for the lack of exp available to them and can not fight for things such as scuttle and are overly susceptible to counter Jungling like {{champion:28}}. You are relegating her to trash tier in solo Q when you make is even harder for her to negate JG pressure. And then there are champs like {{champion:64}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:19}} that will dominate after this.
Rioter Comments
: I love when people type out shit like this, when raw data alone debunks it
: Catch-Up Experience and Jungle Changes in 7.22
Please don'rt screw over AP junglers by giving Leathality Champs a leg up. The New Eve is already trash when counter-jungled with having no way to defend herself. Compensate AP junglers as well. I would like to matter in my games.
: i am having no Problem with her late game you just have to use her kit right.
Please record some gameplay then. I fail to see how you are of consistent use when the enemy team has awareness and groups. I don't mean to be condescending but there are some inconsistencies when you compare her to other assassins. Why pick her if her job is harder to accomplish and even then, any kills you get go into a power-sink assassin that loses 1v1s with lone semi ADCs in the late game (like an ADC will every actually be alone in the late game) and cant assassinate once a team stacks us on anyone when you mark them and please don't be one of the guys that says don't mark in the late game, its park of her kit. No ability in the entire game falls off as hard or should fall off as hard as her W. Her time bracket of effectiveness is too small Lv 6 to around Lv 12 on average for me.
: I've played a good number of games with Eve, and I've found a few things that work pretty well: For reference, I've played 7 jungle Eve games, and [here](https://i.imgur.com/1sc93Rt.png) is a quick overview of my recent match history. I'd say I've done ok (oddly enough, I won on either level 13 or 18). 1) Build mobility boots. I tried buying sorc shoes for the first few games, but I found my engage potential was practically 0. 2) Hextech Gunblade is a good second buy. It gives you good damage, sustain, and a ranged slow to help with your engage. 3) DON'T use your W later on in the game to make picks. This alerts enemies to your presence, and they often can escape or draw their team. Your empowered E + Q + Gunblade + Smite + R is usually enough to kill squishies if you build AP. I find it's better for peeling your backline.
in regards to her W: I find it really disappointing that a whole chunk of her kit actively hurts her game play as the game progresses. At what point do we consider it a waste of an ability slot?
Rioter Comments
mirAcIe (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DreadLows,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9aYhGMgs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-15T01:50:53.982+0000) > > He is referring to her gameplay. A lot of Eve mains a pissed she was released is a very weak state. but he's literally talking about the visuals in his post
> [{quoted}](name=mirAcIe,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9aYhGMgs,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-15T01:55:07.518+0000) > > but he's literally talking about the visuals in his post He is saying that the visuals were the successful part of the rework dispute the game play. He is being positive about one aspect.
mirAcIe (EUW)
: Most of the feedback on her appearance was positive, the fuck you on about
> [{quoted}](name=mirAcIe,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9aYhGMgs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-14T13:11:55.402+0000) > > Most of the feedback on her appearance was positive, the fuck you on about He is referring to her gameplay. A lot of Eve mains a pissed she was released is a very weak state.
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Kuronok2 (NA)
: I can win may lane against Fiora no problem, but of course, i understand what i should and shouldn't do against her. Most players prefer to just complain.
If you don't mind be asking, how much did that high horse set you back? $5,000? 6 maybe?
: pls name the other 15 champs so i may actually make a post about it and i will link it bcuz there is a counter to every champ in the game trust me you are just geting tilted from the thought of those champs being unbeatable
Oh, hello there. I didn't see you. If I'm not mistaken you're "that guy". Well, it was nice having an opinion shoved down my throat but I must be leaving now.
Rioter Comments
: Wukong was also considered trash tier back in Season 2 when I decided to pick him up. Didn't really get serious with him until around Season 3. If you pick your champion just because they're strong, don't say that they're your favorite.
He is one of my favorites, thank you for assuming. You know what they say. Ass and all that.
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: Just wondering... what champions do you not have a problem with? What is an example of a perfectly balanced champion?
{{champion:101}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:222}} just to name a few.
: Morg is balanced. Blitz a little strong. Zed is overpowered. See the difference?
I disagree. I have issue with all three. Good for you though.
: You forgot {{champion:238}}. You're wrong about Morgana though.
actually i for got blitz too but a 3 second root is either a burned flash or a death org can also cheese mid lane
Vistha Kai (EUNE)
: People play Azir... what?
And even Riot admitted that Azir is a problem .
: Except if there isn't a reward for mastering a difficult champion, what would be the motivation for playing them? If I can get the same results playing the easiest champion, why would I not just play them? Why bother spending more time learning a difficult champion if I can just pick up one that I can master in 10 games?
Lee sin is not overpowered because you are good with him. He is overpowered because of his kit. His numbers and mobility are there regardless of is you use them or not and that's an issue. I don't care if you accept it but most people know its unfair you have a bias. the reward is being skilled with your champ. The champ should not be overpowered as a result. Lee sins stats don't jump to 11/10 just because Fakers hands are on the keyboard. The champ is unfair to begin will. Lee is only an example out of the maybe 16 that ruin the game.
: But why is it not fair?
Because it ruins the value of the other 112 champs that please don't abuse because of imbalance. We don't care if its hard to play. Its unfun. There is a reason use the term "Tryhard" some champs kits are inherently flawed for the way the game is designed. Being good with a champ is on the player and that's all fine and good but being good with a champ that has an overloaded kit ruins the fun of other people and the whole point of playing any other champ. I garentee you if more than one of the same champ could be used in draft matches you would get 10 {{champion:64}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}s hopping all over the entire map because they can all be built and used in ways that make any other champ viable
: Except if a champion is harder to master, the reward should be greater. If you take the time to learn Leblanc, you should get more out of it than some one at the other end of the spectrum, like Warwick.
Thats normal video game logic. That would work is a fighting game. This is not a fighting game. Get it through your head. There is no excuse for imbalance least of all skill caps.
: Why should there not be high skill cap champs that reward you for mastering them?
BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE LIKE OR CAN PLAY HAS LEE SIN. If people cared about high skill high reward there would be absolutly no point for any other type of champ. That logic is so stupid. Just because you play Lee a lot means that you have the right to ruin everyone game. Lee mains don't get why we hate the champ. Hard to play should not equal overpowered it's so toxic it hurts. Not only that but their egos get so big that they cant even see when their champ is cancer to the game. {{champion:238}} {{champion:64}} mains are the worst offenders. When Lee was going to get reworked in 2014 they bitched so hard because they like being on top. Same would happen with Zed. I don't care if they accept it or not but the majority of the community knows kits like {{champion:92}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:64}} are unfair.
: Let's just agree that the **majority** of Champions actually is balanced and the only thing that creates imbalance are the items.
in most cases yep but some kits are just Cancer to this game. Kits like {{champion:54}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:105}}
Dionesus (NA)
: Can people stop whining and just play the game? they all have counters...people just want to play the way they want instead of adapting and wonder why they lose...
Rioter Comments
: Are you saying that Taric is overpowered?
Has no one ever pointed out how rapey Taric's character is?!? Its a running joke.
Rioter Comments
: Don't call me kid I'm 21.
I really, really don't care.
: > [{quoted}](name=DreadLows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2hLAuFg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-11T05:39:19.553+0000) > > But I mean before then those could have just been mistakes. The last 7 months seem almost...deliberate. It's...unsettling. Riot has been doing the exact opposite of what it's player base asked for sense like the end of season 2
Back then it didn't hurt the game as much though. Now it just seems gross.
: this thread {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Then leave. Shocker but other people have opinions kid.
: Oh this game has been on the slide for alot more than 7 months.
But I mean before then those could have just been mistakes. The last 7 months seem almost...deliberate. It's...unsettling.
Rioter Comments
Neamean (NA)
: I love it but wouldn't it be better on {{champion:266}} I mean if you give {{champion:8}} a sword you practically made him into Aatrox. Also the kit is very fitting aside from the ult. Q: would be him utilizing his sword W: would be like how in his Lore he energies his allies E: also like his lore because he dances around in the battlefield R: like i said not as fitting because it solely tried to retain Vlad current ult so it could be changed to something more fitting for Aatrox
Yeah I thought the same thing but I decided on keeping it Vlad for 1 reason. I hate the way Aatrox looks more than I hate the way Vlad sounds. For the love of Beezus Rito please update these two.
Rioter Comments
: I actually really really like this! However what if with the blood balls he becomes ranged? Like he flings them at people like his current auto but they deal good damage scaling with ap, maybe even a slow? I feel right now with the way you have things set up theres no real incentive to use his blood balls for his autos when the abilities are much more attractive. But giving them range and/or some on hit cc would make it a more interesting option. Also I would say change up the bleed on the passive a bit. Imagine a really tanky champion, but you can just walk up to them and auto once with your sword and have them bleed out 15% of their max hp healing you for all that. It seems pretty insane to me in certain situations, then against squishies its pretty useless. Doesn't seem healthy to me. Maybe they bleed for a percent of the damage he dealt with his autos, stacking up. And then you could make it so when enemies are infected by hemoplauge the bleed percent from the autos damage skyrockets. It would make that guinsoos/nashors on hit vlad have awesome options as well as caster vlad. While at the same time not being op because its a percent of damage dealt, not flat hp percent. All and all a very interesting concept though! Good job.
Then a 10% slow on every auto augmented by Blood Draw. I already intended for the augmented autos to deal scaling magic damage and have range (like a really cool blood slash from the blade). And the bleed is 15% current health not total health over 8 seconds. Its more of an early game passive because any amount of life steal or burst negates it not to mention {{item:3075}}. There are not really any tanky champs that wont be able to soft or hard cc him and hit him back before he runs away with the health. But making the bleed/heal rate go to 20% of current health during Hemo might not be a bad idea. Remember though, even though the person affect by Blood Pact bleeds for 1%-15 (based on lv) over 8 seconds Vlad only heals for 80% of the bleed damage over that same time. This means that a life steal Vlad with {{item:3072}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3153}} would be totally viable! AD VLAD BABY! With this he would still have the same weaknesses of other AD life steal champs though. Burst damage and armor would hard counter him. So and AD Vlad could build {{item:3065}} and {{item:3156}} to be safe from a {{champion:7}} but would be crushed by a {{champion:202}} or a {{champion:64}}. This rework keeps Vlad thematically accurate but makes it so he can use literally any item in the game because he can now reliably auto or AD damage at the cost of ability damage or go hybrid for an even buy relatively low AP and AD number so {{item:3146}} still works on him. The community loves champs with weaknesses, This rework makes it so each game vlad gets to choose his strength (AD or AP) and his weaknesses (AD or AP damage).
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: I'm finding it harder and harder to stay interested in League in 6.2
And of course Riot will ignore the thread instead of taking the criticism.
: > [{quoted}](name=DreadLows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE8rN6Ey,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-30T12:25:50.409+0000) > > I don't have an answer for you. I don't play assassins. What I can say it that just because A Zed is near me and presses R just not justify a kill but that's what happens 80% of the time, same with Talon and Fizz. No counter play is unhealthy. He got near you and avoided the peel of your team, that's the end of the counterplay. You personally take the countermeasures of your own kit, itemization and dodging whatever skillshots the assassin of the hour has, but once they've gotten that far it should be extremely unlikely that you survive, being the highest DPS that already has the safety of ~600 range Pro tip, you probably wouldn't have as much trouble dodging shurikens and the like if you purchased boots before 25 minutes into every game
I don're really care. I don't thing that design is fair or healthy. This thread is not about assassins. Agree to disagree.
: > [{quoted}](name=DreadLows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE8rN6Ey,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-01-30T11:52:11.324+0000) > > I would like assassination to have set up or counterplay other than flash so once every 4 minutes. Point and click ults on assassins are win buttons with little to no counterplay. More than all that I want ADCs to even stand a chance. Set up like what? Other champion's CC? Then you might as well just pick a mage, since they do both huge AoE and have CC of their own
I don't have an answer for you. I don't play assassins. What I can say it that just because A Zed is near me and presses R just not justify a kill but that's what happens 80% of the time, same with Talon and Fizz. No counter play is unhealthy.
: > [{quoted}](name=DreadLows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE8rN6Ey,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-30T10:48:40.128+0000) > >There is a trend there. Assassins are in the game for a reason but knowing that I'm there target and I cant do anything about it the majority of the time is frustrating. Going on a tangent since I see this a lot, what do you want assassins to do then? If an assassin is trying to burst an ADC, and the ADC can peel for themselves with a single button, how do you think the assassin feels? Is that not even more frustrating?
I would like assassination to have set up or counterplay other than flash so once every 4 minutes. Point and click ults on assassins are win buttons with little to no counterplay. More than all that I want ADCs to even stand a chance.
CppL (EUW)
: Well she was picked in lcs like 4-5 times already ,so i dont think she"s that bad.Also buffing her every single spell and base armor ,mr ,ad...that would be to much.Way to much.
Being picked in competitive play means nothing. If it did then Riot would not be looking to change Azir due to his soloq issues and general OP nature in competitive play. Casual League and competitive are 2 different games. Casual suffers from the imbalance that Competitive promotes. I will site the recent Elise MS nerfs.
CppL (EUW)
: Thats way to many buffs...
I didn't put her in the place she is in. She needs a rework. These would put her around MF or Quinn's level and I thinks that's a fair goal considering they all received reworks during the ADC overhaul.
: If rapid fire cannon is nerfed, she will need to be buffed
The changes I outlined are really all she needs and with all that I put it would basically be another rework. RFC nerf or not she is still in a bad place as far as ADCs go.
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NyxPyre

Level 58 (NA)
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