rujitra (NA)
: Please show me where it is defined that a support must only do those things? A damage based support is fully a viable and permissible option.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00000000000100000002,timestamp=2019-02-21T23:17:21.646+0000) > > Please show me where it is defined that a support must only do those things? > > A damage based support is fully a viable and permissible option. Hey man, either you are heavily misinformed, or there is some sort of confusion within your organization. I have a Ticket opened with Peacemaker, and he spent the first half of the response speaking to me being negative, but here is the part that applies to this board: I can screenshot and send it in if you don't believe me. "Even if you get teamed up with someone just being negative, retaliating does not solve the issue and only contributes to the negativity they create. Both initiating and retaliating with negative chat both go against our rules. This means that negative behavior is unacceptable regardless of the circumstances or who started it. I always suggest muting the player, focusing on your own game, and then reporting them through the client or directly to us. **We actually do offer a report category for taking your CS, it falls under greifing when you report them after the game. ** I will also be looking into the other players from this game but we take privacy pretty seriously so I won't be able to talk about these players accounts directly. It is also important to let you know that you do not always receive a message saying your report got someone, so I understand that it can feel like your reports go unheard. Please feel free to lemme know if you have any other questions. Peacemaker" I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts. Including everyone else defending this stupid behavior. I bolded the sentence I'd like you guys to pay attention to.
Midg3t (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00000000000100000002000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-22T01:23:10.773+0000) > > you're forgetting that > > a)some people don't use their main to comment on the boards > So he got "Specialist" title on his alt acc? Doubt it. > b) the +30 leveling thing has only been around for 1 season. that says nothing about wether a player has played more games on an account overall than you or not. Rather it tells you wether that someone has actual irl stuff to do or if he's spending most of his free time on league like an utter addict > Well you're right about this, it was dumb of me to assume he doesn't play the game at all. But he didnt play for an entire season, that's for sure. And talking about the game and how it should be played while not playing for a long-ass time is not okay imo. That's like me saying how adc-s are the most OP class because all they have to do is right-click, while i only played them once in my life. > c)knowing the rules and what riot allows and doesn't allow has doodly aquat to do with a person's in-game experience > Riot...doesn't really thinks about what can be used as a method of trolling, and taking cs as a support with the intention of sabotaging your adc is one of them. Think about it, if Riot is completely okay with support taking farm, then why did they make supp items with gold gen. effect? It's almost like they want support to get gold through gold gen. items. > all you've done is prove how dishonest you are in your argumentation by going for ad hominems instead of presenting valid counter arguments. Why should I even explain this kind of stuff? All you have to do is play one game of adc where your support will take your cs from the start to see why is that a bad thing. Literally it needs no explanation. But since people here arent able to think about it ill explain why, and Ill use this case, assuming everything OP said is true: - his support was velkoz right? So he probably had {{item:3303}}. And when you farm while having this item, you need more time to get your Tribute stacks. No stacks --> slower quest completion --> no wards --> no vision. - farming as a support won't set you ahead, since you're sharing xp with your adc - adc is a gold reliant class, meaning that they need farm. How will taking their cs make them stronger. - some players here said that it's a good idea to farm in case your adc is bad....basically making a weak player even weaker is a good idea? - even if velkoz is a mage who can do dmg, it was still a 4v5, since OP on adc couldnt do shit cuz of velkoz. They were lucky to win the game - there are times when support should farm, and again, this wasn't the time when supp should farm.
> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000000000001000000020001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-22T08:56:28.112+0000) > > So he got "Specialist" title on his alt acc? Doubt it. > > Well you're right about this, it was dumb of me to assume he doesn't play the game at all. But he didnt play for an entire season, that's for sure. And talking about the game and how it should be played while not playing for a long-ass time is not okay imo. That's like me saying how adc-s are the most OP class because all they have to do is right-click, while i only played them once in my life. > > Riot...doesn't really thinks about what can be used as a method of trolling, and taking cs as a support with the intention of sabotaging your adc is one of them. > Think about it, if Riot is completely okay with support taking farm, then why did they make supp items with gold gen. effect? It's almost like they want support to get gold through gold gen. items. > > Why should I even explain this kind of stuff? All you have to do is play one game of adc where your support will take your cs from the start to see why is that a bad thing. Literally it needs no explanation. > > But since people here arent able to think about it ill explain why, and Ill use this case, assuming everything OP said is true: > > - his support was velkoz right? So he probably had {{item:3303}}. And when you farm while having this item, you need more time to get your Tribute stacks. No stacks --> slower quest completion --> no wards --> no vision. > - farming as a support won't set you ahead, since you're sharing xp with your adc > - adc is a gold reliant class, meaning that they need farm. How will taking their cs make them stronger. > - some players here said that it's a good idea to farm in case your adc is bad....basically making a weak player even weaker is a good idea? > - even if velkoz is a mage who can do dmg, it was still a 4v5, since OP on adc couldnt do shit cuz of velkoz. They were lucky to win the game > - there are times when support should farm, and again, this wasn't the time when supp should farm. Thank you thank you thank you. This is a literal perfect breakdown. I honestly expected everyone who saw this board to see that clearly, and I'm extremely baffled as to why they do not.
Midg3t (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=BrahMoarQQPlox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000000000001000000020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-22T00:09:54.548+0000) > > Not sure what level has to do with reiterating Riot's position concerning roles... other then making it blantingly obvious you have no counter points. I replied to the wrong comment of his, my mistake. And my point is that hes talking about supports while he basically didnt play the game for a long time,which is obvious since hes lvl 30, dafuq he knows about what supports should do? In this case, if OP is telling the truth, his support indeed griefed OP, and its funny af seeing every1 defending it, but would most likely ragequit if their supports did the same. And im saying this as a supp main.
> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0000000000010000000200010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-22T00:48:22.317+0000) > > I replied to the wrong comment of his, my mistake. > And my point is that hes talking about supports while he basically didnt play the game for a long time,which is obvious since hes lvl 30, dafuq he knows about what supports should do? > > In this case, if OP is telling the truth, his support indeed griefed OP, and its funny af seeing every1 defending it, but would most likely ragequit if their supports did the same. > And im saying this as a supp main. THIS. THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT. SO many people would ragequit if it happened to them. But when they see it happening to someone else it's okay?? It's just like when you have a troll jungle who purposely AFK farms in the enemy jungle just so the enemy team could 4v5 your team and take Barron and win because a gank didn't go his way and he's salty spamming "gg". His stats look perfectly fine, so the enemy team said stuff like "oOooOo your Jungler is 0-1-0, doing much better than you guys who are all feeding." When if the shoe was on the other foot you know damn well they would be upset and very clearly see that he trolling. I don't know man, I don't get people.
: I mean he had 57% KP vs your 35%. Isn't that kind of the point of a support? To support the team? It seems yall had some disagreement in bot lane, and Vel decided the best course of action to get a win... which ironically yall did win. What exactly is your goal? Would you prefer losing LP as long as your numbers looked good?
> [{quoted}](name=BrahMoarQQPlox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-21T23:53:40.968+0000) > > I mean he had 57% KP vs your 35%. Isn't that kind of the point of a support? To support the team? It seems yall had some disagreement in bot lane, and Vel decided the best course of action to get a win... which ironically yall did win. > > What exactly is your goal? Would you prefer losing LP as long as your numbers looked good? Hey man, I'm not sure if you're just choosing not to read because it goes against what you're saying, but I'll explain again. I was so weak that I had very little effect on team fights, so I started split pushing. The enemy team, for some reason, sent 2 people to stop me. I usually died at that point. My team then used the 3v4 advantage to then win those fights. AKA my KP and KDA gets worse, my troll support and team's gets better, and we win. I took one for the team, even though I was the one getting trolled and flamed. This is NOT going to happen every game. The other team was just bad for sending 2 people for me. I was incredibly weak and useless and we should not have won. Also that is not typically going to be the case. I was able to waste their time by running away, Eing, Slowing with my Q, and flashing away, making them chase me. Can't really do that in other games.
rujitra (NA)
: Please show me where it is defined that a support must only do those things? A damage based support is fully a viable and permissible option.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00000000000100000002,timestamp=2019-02-21T23:17:21.646+0000) > > Please show me where it is defined that a support must only do those things? > > A damage based support is fully a viable and permissible option. Do you know what a damage based usually does? Let their adc farm. They are supporting in that sense. If they don't need SUPPORT their adc in any sense, why not just call it duo bot? They can freely compete for farm, not ward or help at all, right?
: as a support, I have had MANY cases where I bust my ass with heals, have all my healing and crowd control on cooldown, at one point had a lucian adc, I kept him alive and healthy enough to actually help him score a triple kill and for my effort? for blowing all my crowd control and heals to ensure he survive? what do I get? Immediately he turns around and dismisses any participation I had in the fight, goes on about how "useless support" I was, and how the triple kill was "All me" in his own words. So yeah, as a support I can blow everything, wards and heals, CC, utility...and that is completely ignored and dismissed (so much for the whole "support is the most important member of the team" quote) But the moment I kill ONE minion, The shit hits the fan and everyone is constantly going off and making sure i know how "hard we are going to report you" and "Make sure support loses thier account. We all agree we are reporting, right??" And as for "SUPPORT", Yes. The role is Support....FOR THE TEAM! Supports job is to help keep the TEAM alive, and is NOT the adcs personal verbal Punching bag/scapegoat combo (with optional cup-holders) The support's job is to ensure the team is kept alive and healthy, Not adc exclusive. Thats why If the adc acts like an entitled ass, I WILL go support other lanes, there are 2 other lanes I can help get ahead. IMHO, If there is only enough room in bot lane for ADC....and ADCs EGO, I am happy to call thier bluff and leave it to them.
> [{quoted}](name=HavokDash,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:45:49.637+0000) > > as a support, I have had MANY cases where I bust my ass with heals, have all my healing and crowd control on cooldown, at one point had a lucian adc, I kept him alive and healthy enough to actually help him score a triple kill > and for my effort? for blowing all my crowd control and heals to ensure he survive? what do I get? Immediately he turns around and dismisses any participation I had in the fight, goes on about how "useless support" I was, and how the triple kill was "All me" in his own words. > > So yeah, as a support I can blow everything, wards and heals, CC, utility...and that is completely ignored and dismissed (so much for the whole "support is the most important member of the team" quote) > But the moment I kill ONE minion, The shit hits the fan and everyone is constantly going off and making sure i know how "hard we are going to report you" and "Make sure support loses thier account. We all agree we are reporting, right??" > > And as for "SUPPORT", Yes. > The role is Support....FOR THE TEAM! > Supports job is to help keep the TEAM alive, and is NOT the adcs personal verbal Punching bag/scapegoat combo (with optional cup-holders) > The support's job is to ensure the team is kept alive and healthy, Not adc exclusive. Thats why If the adc acts like an entitled ass, I WILL go support other lanes, there are 2 other lanes I can help get ahead. > IMHO, If there is only enough room in bot lane for ADC....and ADCs EGO, I am happy to call thier bluff and leave it to them. As I've replied many times in this thread.... That is not the case here. I didn't flame or something not going well, I didn't do anything. I just didn't land a kill he thought we should have landed, in both games. The supports completely stopped helping, or supporting I should say, took farm, and went out of their way so I would do bad. I'm very well aware that supports pretty much run the game most of the time. That is why it is so disheartening when a support is purposely taking farm and ruining the lane.
: > [{quoted}](name=Odeldymaru,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:46:02.499+0000) > > Oh yeah, look, I went 9/17/8 in a game as the adc where Vel used abilities to take farm. Oh yeah, look, he purposely with full health flashed away from Cait's ult so i would die. Oh yeah, look, it's people like you who ignore bot and then look at the underfamed Ez and give the troll support props. > > Also - You want to know why I died so many times? I was splitting because I wasn't worth any gold, and they kept sending 2 after me for some reason. My team, the fed ones, used the 3v4 advantage to win fights and bring us back. I was basically a sacrifice for the team. > > But please, by all means, go off on my KDA. Your most recent game had you go at 1/8. That is not doing well. But I guess I shouldn't take a 1/8 KD in a 20 minute game as a sign that you did poorly.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:47:38.766+0000) > > Your most recent game had you go at 1/8. That is not doing well. But I guess I shouldn't take a 1/8 KD in a 20 minute game as a sign that you did poorly. RIght right and you haven't had bad streaks? You're perfect I guess? Never been on a losing spree, doing horrible? What do those games have to do with me missing A SINGLE KILL in the FIRST THREE MINUTES of a BRAND NEW game? Also I have 53% win rate on EZ and a 54% on Jinx, I don't want to hear it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Odeldymaru,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:28:52.435+0000) > > You talk about "made the game flat out miserable for 2 or more members," as if a support purposely taking farm isn't making the game entirely miserable for at least the ADC, if not the majority of the team, who then flames and blames the ADC? the support deciding to take the farm because they feel the ADC isn't going to be able to do anything after they see in some way that the ADC most probably isnt going to carry is fine, it would be no different if you're like 0/3 and your support decided to just start supporting the 9/0 jax. dumping gold onto themselves is still a viable strategy, hence why kill lanes like vel koz, brand, and zyra are even a thing.
> [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:45:19.689+0000) > > the support deciding to take the farm because they feel the ADC isn't going to be able to do anything after they see in some way that the ADC most probably isnt going to carry is fine, it would be no different if you're like 0/3 and your support decided to just start supporting the 9/0 jax. dumping gold onto themselves is still a viable strategy, hence why kill lanes like vel koz, brand, and zyra are even a thing. Agreed, but again, that was not the case. I missed a kill in the first 3 minutes of the game, I backed when he died, and he retuned to lane and stole every single minion during laning phase. Happened in two out of the three games I was reported for actually. Same exact situation.
: Post your logs then. Because those are the only logs that matter since you control what you say.
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:37:31.563+0000) > > Post your logs then. Because those are the only logs that matter since you control what you say. Game 1 In-Game Odeldymaru: you got it Odeldymaru: she gets rekt once you fall ahead Odeldymaru: dont be against building some armor early if you need to Odeldymaru: dont blame me that you got blown up Odeldymaru: i was out of range to hit her Odeldymaru: do better Odeldymaru: if you keep stealing farm im leaving lane Odeldymaru: this is your one warning Odeldymaru: stupid velkoz is too busy hitting farm Odeldymaru: than harrassing Odeldymaru: why are you like this Odeldymaru: im on yoyur team idiot Odeldymaru: if i do bad we lose Odeldymaru: team speak up Odeldymaru: or im leaving bot Odeldymaru: i just dont get supports that steal farm Odeldymaru: like wtf are youdoing Odeldymaru: im done bot Odeldymaru: have fun Odeldymaru: i hope you guys kill him 100 times Odeldymaru: hes stealing farm Odeldymaru: karth will u report vel? Odeldymaru: ill leave your lane if you do Odeldymaru: hes steling my farm Odeldymaru: on purpose Odeldymaru: so why cant i steal your cs? Odeldymaru: im feeding im fine? Odeldymaru: this elo is insane lol Odeldymaru: how are you guys on the FARM STEALING SUPPORT'S side over mide? Odeldymaru: hes backing and doesnt tank cait's ult Odeldymaru: if that doesnt confirm trolling idk what will Odeldymaru: im so tilted i cant even click correct Odeldymaru: ^^^ Odeldymaru: cant farm with a greedy vel support taking everything Odeldymaru: ...thanks to vel.. Odeldymaru: BC HES GOING OOM TAKING FARM Odeldymaru: lol ok Odeldymaru: idc anymore Odeldymaru: i dont matter according to everyone but you Odeldymaru: i know Odeldymaru: i warned i would be Odeldymaru: karthus and shaco (a duo) agree with vel taking my farm tho Odeldymaru: and apparently i talk too much. so enjoy your useless adc Odeldymaru: yeah its as if he took the farm Odeldymaru: and didnt support Odeldymaru: must be nice Odeldymaru: he dodged a cait ult at full health Odeldymaru: thats not trolling tho, you right Odeldymaru: watch replay Odeldymaru: ill buy you a skin if you disagree Odeldymaru: he ran away from me Odeldymaru: so id die Odeldymaru: hes trolling Odeldymaru: ok. Odeldymaru: im useless so it doesnt matter either way right? Odeldymaru: kk Odeldymaru: lets see Odeldymaru: hopefully vel picks up the slack Right here buddy. Like i said, I typed a lot. My first few chats was me telling the Irelia top to not worry about facing against the vayne top. The "Do better" was in response to him flaming me that he died and us not killing the ADC. That's when he started taking farm. Then I left lane to go to mid and try to kill the enemy and take tower, hoping Vel would say he'd stop, but Karthus and Shaco (They were duoing) both flamed me by telling me ADC's don't matter and I make no difference whether he's taking farm or not. The "I'm feeding I'm fine" comment was because Karthus said "he's not feeding he's feeding he's fine" so I responded with "I'm feeding I'm fine?" because I had died only twice, as in I was not feeding. I spent the entire time trying to scare him into stop taking my farm, which obviously didn't work. At the end the comments of "I'm useless right?" was in response to them telling me I sucked and that I need to group. To which I did group.
: Oh look, your team won that game even though you went 9/17/8 a the ADC. Actually, looking at your last few games, you may want to really learn Ez better outside of ranked, because your KDA in the games with him is really bad. You seem to know Jinx pretty well, but you clearly can't carry as Ez, so it's hard for me to be mad at the Vel'koz.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:38:35.525+0000) > > Oh look, your team won that game even though you went 9/17/8 a the ADC. > > Actually, looking at your last few games, you may want to really learn Ez better outside of ranked, because your KDA in the games with him is really bad. You seem to know Jinx pretty well, but you clearly can't carry as Ez, so it's hard for me to be mad at the Vel'koz. Oh yeah, look, I went 9/17/8 in a game as the adc where Vel used abilities to take farm. Oh yeah, look, he purposely with full health flashed away from Cait's ult so i would die. Oh yeah, look, it's people like you who ignore bot and then look at the underfamed Ez and give the troll support props. Also - You want to know why I died so many times? I was splitting because I wasn't worth any gold, and they kept sending 2 after me for some reason. My team, the fed ones, used the 3v4 advantage to win fights and bring us back. I was basically a sacrifice for the team. But please, by all means, go off on my KDA.
: I have had A Draven adc throw a tantrum and quit the match over me (as support) having 3cs. I Q'ed and a couple minions got executed int he proccess, so draven throws a big tantrum and quits the match...well...he spent the entire game hurling insults at me about how much I suck as an adc when I am trying to defend bot lane 1v2 as a soraka. and just got out of a match because My adc threw a tantrum over me taking minions, so as punishment he hid behind the tower and intentionally watched as the enemy 1v2 me, Then turns around and pulls a "FF @ 15" when they get first blood. So Yeah, I have no interest in sitting back and letting fragile snowflakes who crumble at the first sign of a challenge have free monopoly over CS. You want farm? Learn to last hit and take it from me, otherwise shut up and adapt. ADCs have spent every season so far that THEY are the only ones that matter in the game, the other 4 players are just there to be witnesses to -their- glory. Not me, IDGAF about how "special' the adc thinks they are. I am there to try and win, not coddle the adc with ass-pats and rainbows. If you couldnt tell, I am not just sour about adcs, I downright despise the egotistical narcissists they have become, wrapped up in their own grand self-importance. And I have yet to see an adc show me anything other than that.
> [{quoted}](name=HavokDash,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:21:04.398+0000) > > I have had A Draven adc throw a tantrum and quit the match over me (as support) having 3cs. I Q'ed and a couple minions got executed int he proccess, so draven throws a big tantrum and quits the match...well...he spent the entire game hurling insults at me about how much I suck as an adc when I am trying to defend bot lane 1v2 as a soraka. > > and just got out of a match because My adc threw a tantrum over me taking minions, so as punishment he hid behind the tower and intentionally watched as the enemy 1v2 me, Then turns around and pulls a "FF @ 15" when they get first blood. So Yeah, I have no interest in sitting back and letting fragile snowflakes who crumble at the first sign of a challenge have free monopoly over CS. > You want farm? Learn to last hit and take it from me, otherwise shut up and adapt. > ADCs have spent every season so far that THEY are the only ones that matter in the game, the other 4 players are just there to be witnesses to -their- glory. > Not me, IDGAF about how "special' the adc thinks they are. I am there to try and win, not coddle the adc with ass-pats and rainbows. > > If you couldnt tell, I am not just sour about adcs, I downright despise the egotistical narcissists they have become, wrapped up in their own grand self-importance. And I have yet to see an adc show me anything other than that. The type of character you are describing and what i am telling you is literally night and day. In both my situations, I barely missed a kill. They both flamed me, and then they both started last hitting. It had nothing to do with being egotistical or throwing a tantrum. And I don't mean I gave up and started flaming. I spent the rest of both damn games in lane trying to out farm my supports who are using abilities to steal farm. Also - you sound pretty difficult to lane with. I don't need to be coddled and I'm not a snowflake, but supports like you who give up on their ADCs when the ADC's aren't being toxic or anything literally throws games. Why even play? You're making it a 4v5 by putting them back at that point. And before you get antsy, I'm not referring to the ADCs who flame or throw tantrums, I'm referring to the ones ACTUALLY trying. No one is perfect. Your ADC Ez will miss his Q for a kill sometimes, ITS HAPPENS. No need to take farm for the rest of the game and secure the loss.
: It's hard to say without seeing the specific way this all played out, .. I could probably look up your game and literally watch it, but I wouldn't get to see any of the chat log .... and ... I don't really want to. .. The first thing that actually comes to my mind is, ... when the enemy laners are killed or forced out of lane, it is actually intelligent to hard shove the minion wave into the enemy's tower, which causes them to lose gold and exp. This is often done in coordination with the ADC and the support, possibly even the jungler. For the most part, the ADC still gets most of the gold, .. Sometimes a jungler will go ahead and tax depending on the situation. From personal experience, ... I have definitely had situations where ... to be honest, .. I didn't trust the ADC. Watching them miss cs constantly and making poor choices for when to push and when to stall, .. There will come a time where I will abandon the idea of letting the carry farm and try to gain some strength so that we only have 1 underfarmed player and not 2. As someone else said, the carry does not own the farm, but they are more often item / gold dependent than the support. Supports are typically balanced in a way that they remain relevant without gold, but they are still more valuable with gold. And again, as someone else suggested, .. your attitude can 100% bite you. I'm not saying that you in fact did have a bad attitude, but people do have less sympathy for people who are rude. The opposite is also completely likely. Some supports just take farm because they believe they are more capable of carrying. In this case, .. despite being contrary to the typical strategy, it is not "against the rules" Similar to the Support Singed case you were referring to ... which I believe was actually a few years ago, .. someone isn't really "wrong" for using a different strategy than their teammates are used to, .. In that situation, Riot temporarily banned that player but reverted the decision after further review. They were also very clear with that the player should be sure to explain their strategy and be open to objection and compromise.
> [{quoted}](name=Elite4Runner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:15:25.515+0000) > > It's hard to say without seeing the specific way this all played out, .. I could probably look up your game and literally watch it, but I wouldn't get to see any of the chat log .... and ... I don't really want to. .. > > The first thing that actually comes to my mind is, ... when the enemy laners are killed or forced out of lane, it is actually intelligent to hard shove the minion wave into the enemy's tower, which causes them to lose gold and exp. This is often done in coordination with the ADC and the support, possibly even the jungler. For the most part, the ADC still gets most of the gold, .. Sometimes a jungler will go ahead and tax depending on the situation. > > From personal experience, ... I have definitely had situations where ... to be honest, .. I didn't trust the ADC. > > Watching them miss cs constantly and making poor choices for when to push and when to stall, .. There will come a time where I will abandon the idea of letting the carry farm and try to gain some strength so that we only have 1 underfarmed player and not 2. > > As someone else said, the carry does not own the farm, but they are more often item / gold dependent than the support. > > Supports are typically balanced in a way that they remain relevant without gold, but they are still more valuable with gold. > > And again, as someone else suggested, .. your attitude can 100% bite you. I'm not saying that you in fact did have a bad attitude, but people do have less sympathy for people who are rude. The opposite is also completely likely. Some supports just take farm because they believe they are more capable of carrying. In this case, .. despite being contrary to the typical strategy, it is not "against the rules" > > Similar to the Support Singed case you were referring to ... which I believe was actually a few years ago, .. someone isn't really "wrong" for using a different strategy than their teammates are used to, .. In that situation, Riot temporarily banned that player but reverted the decision after further review. They were also very clear with that the player should be sure to explain their strategy and be open to objection and compromise. My point exactly. They don't have clear cut rules as to what is trolling. So you can get trolled, but oh have mercy if you DARE type to them. Also, I completely understand the concept of forcing people out of lane and hard shoving. That was not the case. Both games were not the case. We were both recently back in lane, and they were both doing their best to last hit, even as far as using abilities so I wouldn't be able to farm.
: Recently? That was 2 years ago. It is also different as the Singed was doing more double jungle than support. I doubt "please quit taking farm if I'm in lane too" was the only thing you typed.
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:29:59.543+0000) > > Recently? That was 2 years ago. It is also different as the Singed was doing more double jungle than support. > > I doubt "please quit taking farm if I'm in lane too" was the only thing you typed. If league would show you the chat logs and I could copy and paste i would. He spam pinged me when he died and said "WTF EZREAL. HIT CAIT" and I responded with "don't blame me that you got blown up." Not another word was said. He came back, and took farm for the rest of the game. After that i typed a lot. Stuff like "team please say something" or "okay I'm going to be really weak if can't farm"
rujitra (NA)
: Well, yeah, because you’re abandoning your lane. The support is the bot lane supporting champion. That does not say “the support does not take any farm”. The ADC **does. not. own. the. farm.** And they can group report all they want - you don’t get punished for being reported a lot. You get punished if you break the rules - no matter one reports or 9 reports.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:22:50.784+0000) > > Well, yeah, because you’re abandoning your lane. > > The support is the bot lane supporting champion. That does not say “the support does not take any farm”. The ADC **does. not. own. the. farm.** > > And they can group report all they want - you don’t get punished for being reported a lot. You get punished if you break the rules - no matter one reports or 9 reports. Okay, so in what sense are they supporting? They're taking the farm, not warding, not healing, not CC'ing for you. What are they doing that is supporting? Their role is SUPPORT, right?
: see, riot has already stated that no creeps in the game, whether they be neutral or enemy, belongs to anyone, so "stealing farm" is technically a thing. its obviously more efficient to dump gold onto carries (as most supports exist by living off of meager gold gains + assists) but it isn't against the rules for gold to be gained by anyone. think of the singed case. that's kind of where riot seems to get obscure with these types of things. in singed's case they decided to rule it as trolling, despite his intent to win, solely because he more or less made the game flat out miserable for 2 or more members. but i say obscure, because they never actually cut and dry define what "trolling" a game actually is, and simply leave it as vague as "anything preventing your team to win". this in itself isn't even a very good answer because its still at the discretion of whoever sees it, example, the recent ezreal support fiasco. intent 100% to win, but banned because no one else on his team wanted an ezreal support, whereas the inting sion literally involves running down a tower, by killing yourself if you have to, thus dumping gold onto your lane opponent. but that one wasn't described as trolling because it was seen as just "relentlessly running down a tower". regardless if any of the aforementioned strats won games (all 3 actually won a pretty decent amount) riot deemed 2 of them as hindering your team. so there really isn't a way we can tell whats actually trolling, hence why it seems as if actual trolls get to roam free. so yeah what you can see as trolling might actually not be, and vise verse.
> [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:04:14.381+0000) > > see, riot has already stated that no creeps in the game, whether they be neutral or enemy, belongs to anyone, so "stealing farm" is technically a thing. its obviously more efficient to dump gold onto carries (as most supports exist by living off of meager gold gains + assists) but it isn't against the rules for gold to be gained by anyone. > > > think of the singed case. that's kind of where riot seems to get obscure with these types of things. in singed's case they decided to rule it as trolling, despite his intent to win, solely because he more or less made the game flat out miserable for 2 or more members. but i say obscure, because they never actually cut and dry define what "trolling" a game actually is, and simply leave it as vague as "anything preventing your team to win". this in itself isn't even a very good answer because its still at the discretion of whoever sees it, example, the recent ezreal support fiasco. intent 100% to win, but banned because no one else on his team wanted an ezreal support, whereas the inting sion literally involves running down a tower, by killing yourself if you have to, thus dumping gold onto your lane opponent. but that one wasn't described as trolling because it was seen as just "relentlessly running down a tower". regardless if any of the aforementioned strats won games (all 3 actually won a pretty decent amount) riot deemed 2 of them as hindering your team. so there really isn't a way we can tell whats actually trolling, hence why it seems as if actual trolls get to roam free. > > so yeah what you can see as trolling might actually not be, and vise verse. You talk about "made the game flat out miserable for 2 or more members," as if a support purposely taking farm isn't making the game entirely miserable for at least the ADC, if not the majority of the team, who then flames and blames the ADC?
: > [{quoted}](name=Odeldymaru,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T21:59:06.609+0000) > > How is that not a troll thing to do? I can guarantee you that If I queued up as mid and followed the jungler around taking his farm, I would be reported and likely banned. It tilts the entire team and it is unsportsmanlike. Why even assign roles if they can do whatever they want. How is a support purposely using abilities to tilt you and starve you from gold SUPPORTING in any sense? To be frank some supports, myself included, have had some rather toxic ADC’s as their lane partner in the past. Some of those same supports may have been left with such a sour taste in their mouth from the experience that they simply do not care about letting the adc have the cs Botlane. I used to be the same way back in season 2, when Supports were basically walking ward droppers, never had enough gold to buy more wards and was still yelled at by my adc for not dropping wards.
> [{quoted}](name=Boltonator,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:01:49.464+0000) > > To be frank some supports, myself included, have had some rather toxic ADC’s as their lane partner in the past. Some of those same supports may have been left with such a sour taste in their mouth from the experience that they simply do not care about letting the adc have the cs Botlane. > > I used to be the same way back in season 2, when Supports were basically walking ward droppers, never had enough gold to buy more wards and was still yelled at by my adc for not dropping wards. Okay but missing a single kill early game, when it was arguable if it was even my fault or not? That deserves my cs being taken? I didn't even type a single thing to them. They returned to lane and took my farm.
rujitra (NA)
: Because the ADC does not own the farm. Nobody owns neutral or lane monsters.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QRQvEoTn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-21T21:46:13.137+0000) > > Because the ADC does not own the farm. Nobody owns neutral or lane monsters. How is that not a troll thing to do? I can guarantee you that If I queued up as mid and followed the jungler around taking his farm, I would be reported and likely banned because the entire team (and probably the opposing team) would group report me. It tilts the entire team and it is unsportsmanlike. Why even assign roles if they can do whatever they want. How is a support purposely using abilities to tilt you and starve you from gold SUPPORTING in any sense?
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Odeldymaru

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