PkMange (EUW)
: While you're at it, could you also make Banshee's spellshield look the same as EoN's? It always bothered me that they were essentially the same thing but for some reason Banshee's looks 240p while EoN looks ALMOST IDENTICAL but more polished. There never has been a reason to have them look different imo since what champ built what should be obvious, as one item is catered to mages and the other to AD assassins, but now that they're gonna share (what I assume is going to be) a Unique Passive, might as well have it look the same on both items, no? I know this sounds super irrelevant and it honestly is, just a little thing that bugged me since EoN's introduction :p
It could be because EoN falls off after a few seconds, so you don't have the same pressure to pop it. I do like the spell shield effect that Malzahar passive, Black Shield, and Banshee's give though. Not sure if EoN has that.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 2
I understand slowing down changes before Worlds, but I worry how stale things will be. Even just things like QoL changes would make a huge difference. For example, I main Taric, and the patch 7.14 change that switched his Q from passively gaining charges to more of a Reset mechanic was amazing. It was a simple switch that really made him stand out from other healers. Regardless of its impact on his power, the fun levels increased dramatically. I wonder if these types of changes can be done for other champions.
: I believe that's working as intended. Ardent's User's can also benefit from the Ardent Censor buff as well as the teammates they are healing or shielding. Recently played a game of Rakan & it gave him the Ardent's Buff on spawn since his Shield Passive activated.
That's exactly how it hasn't worked for like 2 seasons, so the bug must be affecting self shields.
Rioter Comments
: If you cannot queue up as a duo, you should not be in the same game
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Finally
considering it's oppressive in early lane phase for cc supports {{champion:12}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:53}}, this nerf really doesn't do much there...
: How to make Ohmwrecker Good
I can only assume that it is supposed to be a split push item of some sorts. Raptor Cloak allows you to gain MS in lane, which is how Split Pushers avoid getting outnumbered in the side lane. The Active is obviously supposed to help Turret Dives, which I think is pretty useless. So I commented this to the Item Cleanup Dev post the other day. I think the main idea of split pushing is the ability to pressure the side lane and possibly group with your team for objectives. We need items that are conducive to that idea. So this is what I came up with for Ohmwrecker: Ohmwrecker (2600g): Kindlegem + Raptor Cloak + 900g    Now Grants: 300 HP, 25 AR, 25 MR, 10% CDR    Remove: Active    NEW PASSIVE: Point Runner- Gain 25/20/17/15/12/10% bonus MS and 0/10/20/30/40/50 bonus AR and MR for each nearby enemy champion. This is a new kind of give/take passive that means that when you are 1v1 in the side lane, you have high mobility and can escape if the enemy team tries (and fails) to collapse quick enough. The more people they send to deal with you, the better chance they have to catch you. The other half of this passive means that the more enemies you are around, the tankier you become. This way you have the opportunity to group and teamfight if absolutely necessary, but you sacrifice your extra mobility.
Ñaofumi (NA)
: This post is bought to you by Zed gang
I'm actually just tired of everyone complaining about Assassins and Zhonya's. Do you have any ideas?
: Yeah there's plenty of items that need a good wack. As someone who plays assassins and burst characters, my completely biased and irrational opinion is "YES PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD KILL ZHONYAS!". However let me provide the fruit for thought of: Does Zhonyas exist as a necesary evil? Sure, it's super frustrating to have a perfectly set up kill on someone, just for them to press their skill button and either escape for free or turn and kill you with their cds. My question though is in the state of league, is that kind of item necesary to the game? Honestly, I think Zhonyas is a bit too strong, and too linear. There is no "Okay" Zhonyas play. You either use it at the right time (which there are a lot more right times than wrong) and do great, or waste it and look like a shiny sitting duck for two seconds while the fed assassin across from you spams their mastery. I personally think that while it shouldn't be removed, its effect should be changed to not only be versatile, but have some way to play around it while also fufilling its goal. Let's be honest, Zhonyas has no counterplay. Either you're in a situation where the Zhonyas user is going to succeed after using Zhonyas, or they aren't. If the effect was more dynamic, it could actually bring into the situation not "Should I use Zhonyas now" but "How should I use Zhonyas now?". I definitely don't want anti assassin effects to be nonexistent, but I also don't want them to be THIS uninteractive and obnoxious.
Necessary Stasis on all Mages is exactly the all-or-nothing kind of situation we want to avoid. One thing I'm seeing people say is that some champs _have to have Zhonya's_ because even though their kits don't have Stasis, they need it to function. But people miss that there's nothing special about melee AP glass cannons (Kennen, Katarina, Evelynn, etc.) that should allow them that advantage over melee AD glass cannons (Kha'Zix, Talon, Nocturne). If AP Assassins get access to Stasis, AD Assassins should too, or nobody should. I believe that's part of the reason why Stopwatch was added. Since now it becomes "everyone or no one," we need to ask, "Is this mechanic healthy for the game." Considering there is very little counterplay around Stasis, I believe the answer is no. That's why it should have limited access (Bard, Lissandra, Zilean). Guardian Angel is far less controversial than Zhonya's for many reasons: it indicates when Active, it has an extremely long cooldown, Stasis lasts so long that a teamfight can end and you can decide on how to play around it. This is a much better version of Stasis that I think should be available to the Assassin class if they want it. So I did some more thinking, and if the plug gets pulled on Zhonya's, here's what I came up with: Guardian Angel (2800g): Stopwatch + Cloth Armor + Null-Magic Mantle + 1450g    Grants: 25 AR, 25 MR       UNIQUE Passive - Adaptive (Last Whisper- 35% Armor Pen) / (Dissolve- 40% Magic Pen)       Passive (300s) - Upon taking lethal damage, restores 50% of base health and 30% of maximum mana after 4 seconds of Stasis. I tried thinking of ways to lock users out of Guardian Angel. It's tough to make a defensive item for glass cannons because you run the risk of giving other classes (Bruisers, Battle Mages) a perfect item. I went with Adaptive Penetration because this way, as opposed to giving AP or AD, you need to have built other carry items and have a high DPS kit in order to effective use the stats. Adaptive just means that both Magic Damage and Physical Damage carries have access to this item with no wasted stats. It might be way too far out there, but I think it's better than what we currently have imo. We don't need Riven or Jax or Renekton or Red Kayn to have access to GA. We need Diana and Nocturne and Blue Kayn to have access to GA.
Netorare (EUNE)
: I guess it's fine as long braindead assassins get gutted, it would be a fair trade. I'm really tired of riot pampering assassins so they are not allowed to get the nerf they deserve without a compensation...
I would actually prefer typical Zhonya's users to get buffed, given that they're the ones "losing" their Stasis. Assassins should get the opportunity to do what they are meant to do, just like every other class, but it should have fair counterplay. Zhonya's is a one-sided item. Either it's up and the Assassin fails, or it's down and the Assassin wins. Hopefully an item like this gives both sides a chance of winning the interaction.
Sillae (NA)
: It's literally the only way to survive {{champion:238}} . If he didn't get a free kill every time his ult is up, Zhonya's/Stopwatch wouldn't be such a needed item.
Yeah that's why we need new options for mages. I wanna be clear though, this isn't a "remove Zhonya's" post. But there are reasons people have a love/hate relationship with it - it's definitely unhealthy. Since Assassins have low CC and high mobility, I think movement speed would be a better way to counter the Zeds of the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=OkoiA,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=09g7RqR7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-07T05:38:08.404+0000) > > TRUE > > And judging by the Item Cleanup post, the folks at Riot Games know that too. Hopefully it will be a nerf to more than just numbers, and they'll start taking out those mechanics entirely, but i think the item will stay around in one form or another (maybe shorter duration). > > Now don't underestimate the power of a regenerating shield. Remember Relic Shield meta? I think as long as there is fair counterplay (a long cooldown), it can be extremely useful. Having a specifically physical shield also means it's less useful in every situation and more of a matchup dependent item. Something I think everyone agrees would be better. The problem is with zhonya's in the current meta it is 100% NEEDED. If you don't have zhonya's, in most scenarios even doing the right thing, you're dead. This isn't about assassin damage. Zhonya's isn't an item JUST FOR ASSASSINS. It is an item inherently used to make people waste shit. When they waste shit, you can survive. If you jump in as Katarina with no defenses and use all your shit, you're dead without zhonya's in a lot of instances even at full health and if they miss crucial CCs. It's just a matter of being killed in 0.5 seconds. You make them waste shit, and you don't die and get the upper hand.
Yeah Stasis is a very powerful mechanic. If you balance champions around Stasis when they shouldn't have any in their kit (Katarina, Kai'Sa, Kennen) then you're right it becomes needed on that champion. The problem I'm trying to fix with my item is that once Zhonya's gets either nerfed or removed (as Riot is hinting) then Mages have no primary item against AD. It also turns out that Assassins are countered the hardest by Stasis because their cooldowns are much more valuable than Tanks or Bruisers. Just like how Lee Sin needed a buff after Sightstone got removed, I'm hoping once Zhonya's bites the dust, these AP squishies will get their kits updated so that they don't need a mechanic that they weren't designed to have.
reba042 (NA)
: what if momma brauma talked with more modern language? like, she'd yell YEET while throwing ice.
Waterbend! Haiiiii------YA!
: The problem is Zhonya's is too useful. Even with this item, even if Zhonya's becomes 50 AP and 20 armor, it'll still be chosen over this because of it's interactions. Many AP champions use it and it can create lots of moments where enemies will waste key cooldowns in a teamfight, allowing you to get the upper hand once it's over.
TRUE And judging by the Item Cleanup post, the folks at Riot Games know that too. Hopefully it will be a nerf to more than just numbers, and they'll start taking out those mechanics entirely, but i think the item will stay around in one form or another (maybe shorter duration). Now don't underestimate the power of a regenerating shield. Remember Relic Shield meta? I think as long as there is fair counterplay (a long cooldown), it can be extremely useful. Having a specifically physical shield also means it's less useful in every situation and more of a matchup dependent item. Something I think everyone agrees would be better.
ßurst (NA)
: I believe the armor might be too much. imo about 35-40 would be fine. Also, I feel like mage shield stacking would be insane given this item. Many mages already take something like barrier and many also do build tear to get the seraphs shield later, and I just feel like this would be a little of a toxic mechanic later into the game. On the contrary end I fell like ad anti-mage items need to be redone. something like eon has been totally over nerfed. I really love the idea or EoN because mages (obviously) have huge spells that you need to dodge or possibly outplay with this. the maw item could use some looking at. Also, I feel like tear needs to be looked at because it promotes not interacting with your laner until you have it full stacked. It could use a better alternative that could be used with more than just ez and mages.
Yeah I'm not too tied to the numbers, but a full stacked Seeker's Armguard actually gives the same amount of AR as Zhonya's (45). All that the full Zhonya's item gives compared to its components is 5 AP and the Active. This means all its power goes into that active. So I figured an item with a much weaker active needs some stronger stats. Shield stacking is definitely concerning to many roles, but I would say that if you compare how much Zhonya's blocks to this item, there's no chance this is more. And that's why I wanted to incorporate a fairly long cooldown (could be even longer). That way you have a window where it's obvious to the assassin that their damage will go through, no _surprise_ shields (those are the ones I think are worse). And in the teamfight phase, you can rely on long range poke from your Marksman to take out the shield and give you the opening. I also took a crack at Manamune, but that's for another post :) Thanks for the feedback!
: Nice item Idea :)
Rioter Comments
: Tips to carry as Jg?
For your skill level I would say that a good start is following the popular builds on opgg. And don't listen to your teammates. Just /mute all. The Law of Averages will give you good laners half the time and bad laners half the time. If you can identify which lanes are winning and focus on playing with that winning lane instead of wasting time on a losing lane, you should be able to carry a lot more games. It's tough when your top laner dies solo 5 times and doesn't understand that it has nothing to do with jungle. It is not your job to get every lane ahead. It's great if you do, but focus on getting one or two lanes ahead enough that you can carry. So once a lane has a lead, what do you do? Once a lane is ahead, they usually can get lane control (health lead and pushing) and rotate faster than the enemies. If you get bot or mid ahead, you can have them shove in their wave, and convert that lead into a Dragon. If you get top ahead, you can try to coordinate a TP play, take Rift Hearld, or get Turret Plates. Always try to pay attention to which lanes are pushing. If a winning lane starts pushing, the enemy jungler might start looking to gank. Protect your winning lanes, and target vulnerable enemies. You only want to spend time ganking a losing lane if you know you can get the shut down AND objectives afterwards. Otherwise, a single shut down on a winning enemy won't be enough. So yeah, play through winning lanes, convert those leads to objectives, mute negative teammates, follow builds from opgg. :)
: Item Shop Cleanup
**AD/Mana- CHANGE**    Tear is a bad item in lane for AD. It is a huge investment that basically sacrifices the entire early game (yes, that's indended on scaling champs, but the champs themselves should do that, not the lane items). This is not good for the majority of Marksmen, and to fix the class, this has to be changed in a major way. I reduce the cost, save AD scaling for Muramana so that there's immediate utility in lane, and increase flat AD. Essence Reaver also should not be tied to mana. It's too niche, and there is currently no other Crit/CDR item. This makes space for another AD/mana item. {{item:3004}} CHANGE: Manamune (1500g): Tear of The Goddess + Long Sword + 300g    Now Grants: 25 AD, 250 mana    CHANGE: Awe- refunds 15% of mana spent       Mana Charge {{item:3042}} CHANGE: Muramana (2400g): Manamune (fully stacked) + 900g Can be bought before Manamune is stacked, but only grants Shock when full. Otherwise, unchanged. {{item:3508}} CHANGE: Essence Reaver (3400g):    Now Grants: 80 AD, 25% Crit Strike, 20% CDR UNIQUE    Remove: Passive- Basic Attacks refund 1.5% of your missing mana *** **Splitpush- CHANGE**    This playstyle is focused around drawing pressure, breaking the side lane, possibly taking TP to join objectives. You want multiple people to answer while your team gets objectives elsewhere, or if unanswered you take objectives yourself. I change Raptor Cloak to have a more generally beneficial effect instead of relying on being in lane, even though you want to as a split pusher. You should not be punished for grouping like this. Ohmwrecker I give a new kind of 'give and take' scaling that works with both the roles a split pusher may want to fill. I think Zz'Rot is just unhealthy. If you want to commit to splitpush, you need to be the one to do it, not a 0 risk item. {{item:2053}} CHANGE: Raptor Cloak (900g): Cloth Armor + Null-Magic Mantle + 150g    Now Grants: 25 AR, 25 MR, +5% MS    Remove: Passive- Point Runner {{item:3056}} CHANGE: Ohmwrecker (2600g): Kindlegem + Raptor Cloak + 900g    Now Grants: 300 HP, 25 AR, 25 MR, 10% CDR    Remove: Active    NEW PASSIVE: Point Runner- Gain 25/20/17/15/12/10% bonus MS and 0/10/20/30/40/50 bonus AR and MR for each nearby enemy champion. {{item:3512}} REMOVE: Zz'Rot *** **Tank/MS- CHANGE** Dead Man's Plate's passive is too good to be damage specific. Open up this item to more matchups and reduce the saturation of HP/AR items. {{item:3742}} Dead Man's Plate (2900g): Giant's Belt + Raptor Cloak + 1000g    Now Grants: 425 HP, 30 AR, 30 MR, 5% MS *** **Mage/AR- MORE**    There has to be a way to counter AD assassins that doesn't rely on Stopwatch/Zhonya's. These items are too strong against the class and I think they need to be nerfed a bit. Instead I think a single AP/AR item will do wonders to the matchup. {{item:3631}} NEW ITEM- Watcher's Brace (3000g): Seeker's Armguard + Blasting Wand + 1050g    Grants: 60 armor, 80 AP    Passive: Brace (60s cooldown)- Grants a shield that absorbs 110-280 (based on level) physical damage. Breaking the shiled grants 30% decaying MS and puts Brace on cooldown. *** **Mage/CC- FEWER**    There is too much overlap between these items, and I think there are clever ways to fix this. The old GLP built out of Catalyst, and many agree that this was a better version. I'm guessing that this was changed, in part, due to overlap with Rylai's. I think combining these items will provide an interesting mechanic/decision. {{item:3030}} CHANGE: Hextech GLP-800 (3200g): Catalyst of Aeons + Hextech Revolver + 950g    Grants: 300 HP, 400 mana, 80 AP       Eternity       Passive: Damaging spells and Abilities reduce enemy movement by 20% for 1 second.       Active (40s cooldown): Frost Bolt... While on cooldown, disables Rylai's passive. {{item:3116}} REMOVE: Rylai's Crystal Scepter (passive added to GLP) *** **Mage/MS- FEWER**    The only mages that really want MS have the option of taking Predator, which is way better than any current option. It's easier to proc and comes online sooner. Otherwise, I think this is an unhealthy playstyle. We don't need burst mages with guaranteed engage. {{item:3907}} REMOVE: Spellbinder {{item:2065}} REMOVE: Shureliya's Reverie (active combined with Locket) *** **Support- FEWER**    If we're gonna go straight up team buff, Redemption outclasses Locket pretty hard. It's not too often that you can time Locket well enough that it would do more than Redemption would. Also, I remember seeing a Locet update that didn't go through that had a target zone active. I think that's a great idea to increase the skill cap and strategy around the item. We could also try combining this active with Shureliya's so we can use both. Zeke's has too much overlap with Ardent Censer, and removing it could make room for another high AR, low MR support item. {{item:3190}} CHANGE: Locket of the Iron Solari (2400g): Aegis of the Legion + Null-Magic Matnle + 850g    NEW EFFECT: Active (120s cooldown)- Target an area (400 diameter) within 1100 units. Allies within this area gain +30% bonus MS and a shield that absorbs 45-300 (+20% of caster's bonus HP) damage. Both decay outside the area. {{item:3050}} REMOVE: Zeke's Convergence
CenarX (EUNE)
: STOP BUFFING CHAMPS BASED ON POPULARITY
I think an easy tip for Zed is that you have to play around his cooldowns. Try to get more poke off when his Living Shadow is on cooldown. Or even try to bait an engage or aggressive W when your jungler is waiting to gank. If he spams his abilities and shoves you under tower, it leaves him more vulnerable to ganks and poke. He essentially has to use his W defensively or else he's trapped. I agree on this patch he's a bit overtuned, but he hasn't been strong in quite some time. You have to play against him differently than you would a control mage. If he doesn't get those first kills, he has no late game. Play safe, outscale, counter assassins.
mack9112 (NA)
: I never lose to zed as velkoz mid. Learn the matchup
https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2991320709/212570919?tab=overview
: Thought occurred to me to test in tutorial since guardian will proc on monster dmg as well as turret and enemy. put a dummy in red pit and cast my spells at him after taunting the red to attack him. the Q the E and the R all work. have to fast forward bout 60s each time to reset the cd on guardian. But the satchel wont do it :P its weird but apparently riot has it coded like nami passive. cast whatever the heck u like at ur allies.
Yeah I actually tested a few champs yesterday as well, but I could't find any pattern between their abilities, as in like all AoE ground-targeted abilities or something. I tested the first AoE gound-targeted ability I could think of, which is Nami Q, and it also gave the Guard buff. Yes Nami's passive interacts with allies, but strangely her ultimate doesn't apply Guard, even though it applies her passive buff. So then I tested Varus E, which does work, but Karma's R-Q doesn't. None of Anivia's spells either. Then Graves's Smoke Screen works. And then something really weird: Graves's Q, End of the Line, gave the Guard buff. I say weird because it's a directional skillshot, not ground-targeted. So as I understand it, there's really nothing linking the abilities that will proc Guardian other than the fact that it's a weird list of AoE projectiles. ___ As far as I know, the only non-unit-targeted ability that SHOULD give this buff is Thresh's Lantern. And I'm willing to call all the rest of them bugged. If so, this is actually a pretty pervasive bug, but not very impactful because the champions that usually take Guardian already have normal ways of procing it.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: If you're 15/10 and I'm 0/0
The easiest way to approach it is: don't play for KDA. Just play to your win conditions and you can build a lead in many ways.
: Ziggs Ult can proc Guardian + Ardent Censer Frenzy from 5000 units away yay!!!
Looks like Guardian gets prepped at 0:22, which is well before you toss your ultimate. My guess is this is a bug. There's actually no way for Ziggs to proc Guardian directly other than being within 175 units (because he has no ally targeted abilities). Ardent then procs when Guardian procs from Kog'Maw's auto. However, if you take Font of Life, your W and E can both proc that. Then if an ally autos a marked target, they will heal, get the Ardent buff, and prep Guardian. I'm pretty sure this is the only way it should work.
: Items building
I'm pretty sure players at all skill levels use online resources like https://www.op.gg/champion/statistics to find builds if they are new to a champion. Also, something that has helped me a lot is if you type "/mute all" in chat, you won't have to listen to any flame. You can still communicate with pings if you need to, but barely anyone gives good advice when you're just starting out.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Its just reality. Its fun to see how many people are unmoved by actual data and the critiques of arguments. I suppose that's a generation tidepod thing.
how often do you use the word "argument"? try googling more debate terms
IsmaeelH (EUW)
: Remove the ability for Teammates to ban your selected champion in Draft/Ranked
: Its an interesting exercise but it fails to make a compelling argument for several reasons: Anonymous authority, coincidence, generalization, selective observation, small numbers, correlation vs. causation, Reductio Ad Absurdum, and others. After this round of buffs, all I see is Zed banned in every game anyway, usually by both teams. The numbers say Zed has been artificially welfare-pumped into S tier (suck it riot). https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/tierlist/
we got a high school debate club vice president over here!
: > [{quoted}](name=OkoiA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrWk0feV,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-03-02T20:05:12.097+0000) > > From experience, I can tell you they will occasionally look at the front page of Gameplay, and listen or respond if you make your case well enough. Idk dude, alot of the time i scroll through hot to see which posts have been commented on by rioters and the only time i see comments is on lore posts because they like stuff like "Does sion smell bad" lmao
Even if they don't reply, there's still a chance they read it. If you have all the info you need to make your case, just be persistent. My guess is that there's also a lot more lore people than balance people on the forums.
: Riot doesnt look at boards unless its about lore Edit: Downvote? I literally just said a fact, and atleast give me a response if you disagree
From experience, I can tell you they will occasionally look at the front page of Gameplay, and listen or respond if you make your case well enough.
Rioter Comments
: What are some fun team comps I should try out?
So we probably want simple champs to start like Annie, Garen, Sion. I think if you played Zilean/Sion bot lane with Annie mid, Garen top, and a safe jungler like Xin Zhou it could be fun! And obviously full wombo: Lux, Ziggs, Ezreal, Leona, Malphite, Yasuo, etc.
Rioter Comments
Häxel (EUW)
: > 3.3% of champions buy Protoblet, should we remove Protobelt? 2.8% of champions buy Void Staff, should we remove Void Staff? 2.7% of champions buy Spirit Visage, should we remove Spirit Visage? Like this is all going over your head, stop embarrassing yourself. Why don't we all just play a single god damn champion with 0 runes and 0 items?? Why don't you just uninstall? You literally can't distinguish what I'm criticizing from what I'm advocating. Who embarasses himself here now? fantasizing numbers, comparing itembalance of existing items with runes that not even exist and given that you can balance these champions diffrently. It probably needs a deeper exploration what as all affects TRUTH is: NONE of the champions need double as to be playable as they can't be played without it. They can be played. You ask why? Cause you can balance as on so many other levels. Lets compare stats we get from the shards or stats in general Most stats value around duelling strenght, last hit strenght and jungle clear strenght.. You can't give champions ap, cdr, armorpen or magicpen as every champions starts with 0 baseap and penetration. Hp, armor, mr, hpreg on both, Runes and Champions be it flat/base or scaling effects how you survive laning phase or how healthy you can clear, especially first clear. Basead is for last hitting, early duells (even on mages autos early deal a ton of the lanedmg by good players) and jungleclear, especially if you have ad scalings on your abilities. Attackspeed affects A LOT. Lasthitting adn how smooth you can do that. 1v1s as early even one more auto can decide. ANd the jungle clear. One of the main arguments for a second as shard is that. But how exactly does it affect? well ofcourse you get more autos out or get them faster out for a faster and healthier clear. With a healthier clear you may need less resistances in the jungle or with more autos you may need less ad. Only gets back in 1v1s maybe but even there more as could comprimise all of that as logna s you get not cc to death. Where is the payback on someone with tenacity and qss? or a yi who dodges cc with his q? But it ends not just on your own dmg only. As also increases both, tooth and especialyl nail, the passives of hunter talisman and hunter machete. With more as you do more onhitdmg on monsters and more dmg over time. So after all this, if we just want to icnrease jungle clear: Option A: give a second as shard. problem: this gives far more clear as you may want to give and want to balance AND it also increases lane domiannce, lategame and 1v1s waht you may not wanted to buff. Option B: Buff base as but would end the same. Diffrence is you do this for one champion and not add chaos on the potential balance to every other cahmpion and item and future items/champions you want to bring into the Game. Adding a new As item/changing an item like rageblade gets changed/adding new Autoattack focused Champions would all ahve to keep a mind if there are 1 or 2 as shards available to balance that. Maybe it could get op to take double as on every adc together with rageblade which could not be done with only one as shard for exampel. Option C: Buff spells, extra targeted on only bonus dmg to monsters to not just increase also 1v1s or lane strenght. Propblem here could be that it elads to diffrent max orders that may not be wanted. Or that champions sue their mana diffrently. And it lowers the skillfloor like if Yi jsut gets more mosnterdmg with q he just stays healthier while clearign with an untargetable spell. OR Option D: Buff champions boni attackspeded at lv1. That was done on many champions allready like on Yi or Wukong. Shyvanna still misses it for exampel if you would like want to buff her clearing. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Attack_speed You see, Option D may hodl the least negative parts while Option A is the one with the most. " Why don't we all just play a single god damn champion with 0 runes and 0 items?" You may asked Cause indeed early stat choices play a role, but stats are nto equally important or complicated to balance. First cause how i allready told you, some stats champions just don#t start with like ap. And soem stats cause they have a cap and aslo should not be brought around as much. You get as much from one stat as you want for most of the stats. But you can't get 50CDR for a reason. You can't get normaly over 2.5as for a reason. Ms has 2 soft caps for a reason. And for these god dammr easons you find 0 ms shards adn only 1 as adn 1 cdr shard in the new system. Cause giving to much of these out just gives problems. Like maybe you forgot it: But ms, cdr, as, even health -> many normal runes allready give you these. THERE do you ahve your options. And if you want to remain a Chidl without seeign the consequences aka "I WANNA, I WANNA, BUT I WANNA AHVE MORE AS AND MORE VARIETY" and bullshit like this: > variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability then so be it. Jsut shows how you not think thigns certainly threw and that i am lucky i am mostly not affected by your choices and "arguments" ingame and in live as luckily you are not on the live design team and luckily the life design team is a group of people deciding things like that. Not just one person as more people ca see threw more things and see it threw diffrent angles
You’ve changed opinions 6 times about the issue with an AS shard. The only things that get through to you are the things I say 12 times in a row. “so why is a second as needed? Like you said adcs wouldw ant to get as and ad.” “And for 99% of all Champions doulbe attackspeed is useless.“ “give a second as shard. problem: this gives far more clear as you may want to give and want to balance AND it also increases lane domiannce, lategame and 1v1s waht you may not wanted to buff.” “The only ones you would want maybe full as would be ad onhit yi, teemo and kennen (which would be jsut teemo 2.0). Every other champion is jsut better with a mixture of ad and as. This is not even something personal. It is pure math...” “Attackspeed affects A LOT. Lasthitting adn how smooth you can do that. 1v1s as early even one more auto can decide. ANd the jungle clear. ” ___ “then so be it.” Your response to misunderstanding a central idea of design!! And then you continue to try to to defend it!!! “fantasizing numbers” SEE? What did I say? You don’t understand the numbers!! Don’t cite play rates if you don’t know what they mean. “THERE do you ahve your options.” We’re talking about attack speed! Take away double AP shards and tell mages they can take CDR now. There are your options!! LOL “And if you want to remain a Chidl without seeign the consequences” I have a whole thread about the history of linked stats, the causes for siphoning Resolve and Precision, it’s effects, and the effects of decoupling. I can almost guarantee you forgot that Precision didn’t used to siphon stats. And the success of Precision keystones is what made AS marksmen strong. After siphon was added, pure AS marksmen (Kalista, Vayne, Twitch) fell to Crit. Like you wouldn’t even think to think of that cause you’re completely lost in this conversation. And I bet you still don’t understand its relevance. So yes, I do understand the consequences, thoroughly. And it’s frustrating to have to explain over and over the same thing to an argumentative halfwit. "I WANNA, I WANNA, BUT I WANNA AHVE MORE AS AND MORE VARIETY" Where to even begin? You’ve suggested the following: double AS is unnecessary because few champs currently take it, double AS is too strong for junglers, double AS is too strong for marksmen (hence cap), double AS adds too much complexity, and you’ve misunderstood practically everything I’ve said. I’ve had to clarify every single point multiple times. That’s why you feel like I’m talking like a child. It’s because I’m talking to you, and you have the mental capacity of a child. ___ And stop using the word argument. It makes you sound like an angry YouTube atheist from 2011. It’s self-evident we’re disagreeing. ___ So, please correct me if I’m wrong because this is so difficult to extract from your responses. Your main point now is that double AS shards is too strong on junglers and marksmen? OK the answer to that is: it’s not, as evidenced by the state of these roles from 8.3 to 8.4 when 18% AS got restricted. Your other point is that it adds unnecessary complexity? The answer is that the complexity cost is minuscule compared to other rune choices. Restricting options for the sake of simplicity here is completely ineffectual in comparison. We essentially had the option to min/max AS through the entire history of the game until 8.4. It’s currently restricted and soon to ben taken away for absolutely no reason. Seriously, give me a legitimate reason, I’m all ears. Why should double AS have the same fate as Time Spent Dead runes?
Häxel (EUW)
: "I have never said that. That's not even remotely close to anything I've said. Ever. But I get that it's hard to understand, so I'll explain more to you." Its what you were implying with all your argumetns as you still can't argue why this second as row is needed. "You have a choice of 17 Keystone Runes, and a pool of 45 Secondary Runes to choose from thereafter. Here's the decision making process for the new stats that you're worried about "complicating": And given the 1000's of options to choose from already" So WHY does it even need more variety? Are you a Support? = take CDR Are you a Carry? = take damage Are you a Tank or carry with a weak early game? = take double Def Are you a Resist or HP weighted tank? = take opposite stat The hardest choice here is knowing vulnerable carry matchups. They're already almost useless choices, there's next to no variability to be seen. Ok, so WHY does it need more as if you allready choose based on these parameters? As you pointed out, people who know what vulnerable carry matchups are change their ruens based ond efesne, not ona second as shard int he middle row. People easy thinking about what champions they play, carry or support or tank, do allready their thinking with no variety. "if you think a single decision to take AS or AD will cause any confusion at low elo in comparison to the decision process behind the existing Runes, you lack all perspective necessary for this conversation." You basicly told that yourself. As there is no scenario you would take the variety of double as or as and cdr. You hold it simple with 4 examples but these are the most basic ones. And for 99% of all Champions doulbe attackspeed is useless. So yes, you basicly explained yourself that only lowelo would maybe get confused if they need to take doulbe as or not. You Sir, gave that perspective yourself necesary ffor this conversation. Thanks for helping me proving you wrong with your own arguments.
variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability variability ≠ overvariability It's not IMPLIED. I'm explicitly stating the OPPOSITE. Why don't we all just play a single god damn champion with 0 runes and 0 items?? Why don't you just uninstall? You literally can't distinguish what I'm criticizing from what I'm advocating. 4/141= 3% of champions take full AS, and considering you literally have 2/20 ways to get it (as opposed to 12/20 full damage) 3% (which would go up if decoupled) is strong enough to merit keeping, considering there are 0/141 champions that primarily take Hail of Blades. "And for 99% of all Champions doulbe attackspeed is useless." No. no. no. no. This lays out perfectly how little you understand. 3% of champs take double AS now because AS is linked to runes, the real number is higher. 3.3% of champions buy Protoblet, should we remove Protobelt? 2.8% of champions buy Void Staff, should we remove Void Staff? 2.7% of champions buy Spirit Visage, should we remove Spirit Visage? Like this is all going over your head, stop embarrassing yourself.
Häxel (EUW)
: yea OFCOURSE some champions prefer certains tats. I gave you a fckn example of the 2 and a half champions that may prefer more attackspeed in their runes. And it is clear that their are also champions that scale more with health or more with armor/mr like Zac, Malphite and Galio. And some Champions get a lot of health or armor/mr from their spells, so they just optimize around the other stats in items like Sion and Poppy. We allready got rid of Rune Diversity with removing the goldincome, -%deathtime, +%exp, spellvamp, energy and energyregen runes and all scaling runes and etc. Saying more diversity is allways better is just naiv if a: it is to strong or b: to weak. All this applies skill diffrences with people using to strong stuff to increase their elo far more as they are on a normal level or if they decrease it with to weak stuff without actualy knowing it. This just increases the difficulty of balancing as riot focourse wants to balance aroudn optimal paly, so they balance around plat or lcs. But they can't jsut ignore low elo. So the idea is to make the game a little bit easier (boards allways tell "dumber) so lowelo don't fallls into to many traps so riot can balance easier around high elo without hurting as much lowelo. There will allways needs to be made a compromise between increasing diversity and compelxity and makign elague not to complicated and that belongs to riot to decide whenever what direction is the right one.
"Saying more diversity is allways better is just naiv" I have never said that. That's not even remotely close to anything I've said. Ever. But I get that it's hard to understand, so I'll explain more to you. ___ There are thousands of possible rune pages. You have a choice of 17 Keystone Runes, and a pool of 45 Secondary Runes to choose from thereafter. Here's the decision making process for the new stats that you're worried about "complicating": Are you a Support? = take CDR Are you a Carry? = take damage Are you a Tank or carry with a weak early game? = take double Def Are you a Resist or HP weighted tank? = take opposite stat Honestly what the fuck even is this system? The hardest choice here is knowing vulnerable carry matchups. They're already almost useless choices, there's next to no variability to be seen. The ability to make any rune choices at all guarantees that you have the simplest understanding of your champion's class. And given the 1000's of options to choose from already, if you think a single decision to take AS or AD will cause any confusion at low elo in comparison to the decision process behind the existing Runes, you lack all perspective necessary for this conversation.
Häxel (EUW)
: 0 downside? the downside is making the system unnecesary over complicated and include trap choices. You say options, i say bad options. Old runes allready had such a big amount of diffrent ruens and like only 20% of the runes were good. The only ones you would want maybe full as would be ad onhit yi, teemo and kennen (which would be jsut teemo 2.0). Every other champion is jsut better with a mixture of ad and as. This is not even something personal. It is pure math as how you want to optimize your items also around health and resistances for the _Effective health_ http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Health. Same you wanna mix ad with as and maybe crit. Sure onhit builds focus around as mostly but they also get their dmg from the onhitdmg and their own effects. So every other user can use the ad pretty good, kayle the ap. And only if you would go full ad onhit kennen/teemo with maybe rageblade or wits end, no nashors, just botrk runans frozen mallet trinity or bc, then you would want to max out as. Cause a hybrid teemo build who also uses nashors and liandrys ap for the e, q and r dmg would aslo benefit from ap. And for yi it comes around that more as means he gets faster his passive which is just an additional free autoattack which together with the e equals out the lack of ad. So making a 4th as slot for 2 and a healf champions, where it is meta on yi at the moment to go onhit and not crit, totaly not meta to go atm an ad tank onhit style on teemo and depending how riot balances kennen he is either ad or ap would be hilalrious. Especially if it means that players get the idea that this slot must be effective for much more options as "why should riot have implemented if it would not be optimal on a bunch of cases". So dozens of players would go these ineffctive builds and just icnrease the skillgap which makes balancing champions between higha dn low elo far harder as it would lower far more the winrates on these champions in low elo. Or people would really get to the idea they could run champions with cdr and as which would fit like no champion i can currently imagine.
Everything you just said applies to getting rid of rune diversity, item diversity, champion diversity, etc, There are always better options than others. If you took your basic understanding of effective health and applied it to overall champion/stat efficiency, you might be able to see why some champions prefer certain stats. I honestly don’t think you know enough to be having this discussion.
Häxel (EUW)
: so why is a second as needed? Like you said adcs wouldw ant to get as and ad. For a wacky as cdr combo (who could use that, kayle/teemo/azir? even they would also work good/better with ad/ap and as). Or for some doulbeattackspeed on s1 like Yi? I think limiting the options to only one as shard together in the row with cdr is the best choice.
I said MOST marksmen. That’s the point of having options... if you want dedicated class runes just give them as base stats and get rid of the system. And there are tons of other top and jg champions that may want full AS or at the very least have the option. Jax, Tryn, Kayle, Kalista, Twitch, Jinx, Ashe, Yi, Azir, Xin, Udyr, Nocturne, Shyvana, Teemo, Warwick... There is literally zero downside like I don’t understand what’s unclear.
: Currently all the rows only have 3 stat shards, but we're super open to adding more in the future (up to 4 per row)
Attack Speed shard row 2? I don't really get why this is getting changed in the first place, considering AS stat siphon was because pure attack speed was too weak for most marksmen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WXVWJmTx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-02T01:24:59.611+0000) > > Why would you put the movement speed boost on Cho on his R? Why not give him a potential reason to level his Q up early past rank 1 and put the movement speed on it? Its main way to peel as well as catch people out, so having the MS boost on his R makes no sense. If the enemy champion is already on top of you, chances are they're already knocking you up or slowing you by a ton. > > **Cho'Gath Buff** > **Q- Rupture** > - Now if Rupture hits an enemy champion, Cho'Gath gains 20/27.5/35/42.5/50% increased movement speed, decaying over 3~ seconds > > This also gives the added speed boost he gets more counterplay besides "Dont stand beside me or Im gonna dash away" if the enemy really doesn't have any way to CC him when they are directly on top of him. This would also make Cho'Gath less reliant on {{item:3800}} and potentially open up some more early purchases for him. Ok but half the ms boost and make it two seconds instead
why are there only 2 freakin people here making sense haha! explains how the votes have gone.
Doge2020 (NA)
: Akali is only good because of burst. If nasus stays safe, pokes with e and sustains through the lane to lvl 6 then he is gonna beat her ass in almost every fight. Nasus has zero mobility for a reason, he has his wither to catch up and he can easily get anti kite items, runes or summoner spells to help. And btw nasus easily reaching lvl 6 and beating the enemy laner’s ass in is not just against Akali, it’s against literally every champ in top. The only reasons why nasus is shit in high elo is because he has almost no pressure early and has very abusive weaknesses which high elo players take advantage of. And mobility is one of thos weaknesses, he has no mobility for a damn reason. As a nasus main I would much rather NOT have the nasus buff that you proposed, or any of those champs buffed actually. Sure they don’t perform that well but there is a trade off for that.
Akali is not only good because of burst, that’s just ignorant. And by “literally every champ in top” you must mean not including his 45% wr to Viktor. Every champion gets items. The point is that champions have differences in their abilities. > Sure they don’t perform that well but there’s a trade off for that. You literally just described the issue and then said it’s not an issue... The trade off is being a bad champion? Balancing around scaling is ok, as long as the champion is actually balanced.
: darius nasus cho and taric have all been insanely viable in the past, and will be again. Relax
Darius is meta because he can take ghost. Taric was meta when Yi Taric funnel strat was meta and when Ardent Censar was broken. Cho’Gath has seen competitive viability when counter-picked into unabusable matchups, and where lane management and objective control are best understood. Nasus, just no haha Otherwise they’re low tier for a reason.
: Literally none of the "immobile" melee champions you mentioned need mobility. Taric's job is to be near his teammates and doesn't require any mobility for his kit to be effective. Chogath even with his "zero mobility" is often one of the most frustrating champions to deal with whenever he is strong since he invalidates so many other champions. Nasus is in no need to be buffed and the last thing he needs is a way to make his intended weakness not be one anymore
OK idk why you put immobile in quotes, but if you looked at game stats instead of citing your general distaste, you'd see that they are in awful states. All 3 of those champions scale, which creates a problem to balance around. Weak early, strong late is fine as long as both actually happen. That's when we look at win rates and counter options. There's a problem when someone's intended weakness is too weak. Just like when there's a problem when someone's intended strength is too strong.
: None of those champs need buffs or movement amps. They reduce the enemy's speed which makes them able stay on them
1. Needing a buff and needing mobility are two different things. They're all currently low tier, which means they obviously need to be addressed. 2. I'm saying their weaknesses come from lack of mobility. CC is a much less useful escape tool than mobility, also non-negotiable. Think which is a better spell for avoiding ganks: Lux Q or LeBlanc W? 3. Since all of them have a horrific early game win rate, we can conclude that their lane strength is the issue. And if their numbers aren't the issue, then they're dying to ganks. Can Nasus Wither 2 people? How often do you see Cho'Gath hit a knockup? How often do you see Cho'Gath hit a knockup on the top and jg at the same time? I'm saying that we know enough about how the game works now to conclude that some form of mobility is essential. Even if it's just a 3 second MS buff.
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OkoiA

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