: Ik. The point is to speculate though. Given riots recent track record, I am mostly curious as to how broken she will be upon release.
> [{quoted}](name=reaper4042,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r3MmwXYr,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-19T17:04:35.449+0000) > > Ik. The point is to speculate though. Given riots recent track record, I am mostly curious as to how broken she will be upon release. Speculation at this point is ABSOLUTLEY meaningless. We don't even know the full mechanics, so we can speculate nothing. It's one thing to speculate if we've seen the mechanics and skills without the numbers, but we can't speculate anything without having skill explanations.
Jikker (NA)
: Her wings are really off in position from Kayle's. Kayle has her straight out of her shoulders whereas Morg has the upper (neck) and lower (butt) wings. If they were sisters with similar powers, you'd think she would have wings in the same position or at least evidence they were once there.
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1wsF5hVW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T17:09:44.109+0000) > > Her wings are really off in position from Kayle's. Kayle has her straight out of her shoulders whereas Morg has the upper (neck) and lower (butt) wings. If they were sisters with similar powers, you'd think she would have wings in the same position or at least evidence they were once there. Perhaps she did at one point. It's also entirely possible she's used magic to warp her body so she doesn't look angelic anymore.
Jikker (NA)
: Please tell me it explains Morg's butt wings EDIT: She attempted to bloody cut them off! Now that is awesome Still doesn't explain why she's missing some since she couldn't actually cut them off
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1wsF5hVW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-19T16:13:45.578+0000) > > Please tell me it explains Morg's butt wings > > EDIT: She attempted to bloody cut them off! Now that is awesome > > Still doesn't explain why she's missing some since she couldn't actually cut them off She has all of them. The two near the top make up her collar. The middle two are the "butt wings." The lower two are bound and drag with her dress.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:17:32.003+0000) > > Janna's sex appeal is not part of her story and doesn't fit her character of being a protector spirit, nor did it fit her character of being a girl gifted with wind magic. She's sexed up for no damn reason, and has been since the start. > Why is Lulu included in this topic at all? Janna's a goddess who was worshipped / created (sort of?) by primitive peoples. She is faithful for her origins. That kind of diety, especially female, tends to be beautiful and (mostly) nude. Just look at ancient people's and their goddesses; most of them are whatever standards of beauty they believe in personified, and then with almost no clothing ontop of that.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganFreemanBot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=00000006,timestamp=2019-02-19T17:03:32.905+0000) > > Janna's a goddess who was worshipped / created (sort of?) by primitive peoples. She is faithful for her origins. > > That kind of diety, especially female, tends to be beautiful and (mostly) nude. Just look at ancient people's and their goddesses; most of them are whatever standards of beauty they believe in personified, and then with almost no clothing ontop of that. As I've mentioned time before, and within the post you're quoting me on, it didn't make sense in her old lore when she was a mage prodigy. Her new lore was written AROUND her current appearance so they could retcon her without actually VGUing her. So while it may make sense now (to some) it has never made sense prior to her VGU.
: Kayle's reworked appearance aside, no one has really mentioned how broken she will be
How can we talk about a kit we have literally seen nothing of outside of a staged video?
: Tbh that's like the most silly thing to think about cause it makes no sense. She is STILL based off the idea of Greek gods and goddesses so why would it matter what homosexuals think about her. Things can be different from other cultures and not have to conform to yours. This is ancient Greece related things we are talking about, not modern day America :(
> [{quoted}](name=NSFWaifus,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-02-19T16:51:20.742+0000) > > Tbh that's like the most silly thing to think about cause it makes no sense. She is STILL based off the idea of Greek gods and goddesses so why would it matter what homosexuals think about her. Things can be different from other cultures and not have to conform to yours. This is ancient Greece related things we are talking about, not modern day America :( What's silly is that people are conforming this "greek goddess" appearance to her as if she was visually updated when her lore changed - she was not. They took a woman who was a wind mage, and for whatever reason dressed like a stripper, and made her a deity. The point exists that Janna since day one in this game has had no need whatsoever to look like she looks. Sure, some spirits have been scantily clad in myths, but Riot shoved Janna into that classification at a much later date. It doesn't excuse them for the many many years before then as to why she looks this way.
Saianna (EUNE)
: she's supposed to be fallen angel. Not handicapped angel that couldn't fly because her bum-wings couldn't lift her from the ground.
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ialP0O5N,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:37:17.714+0000) > > she's supposed to be fallen angel. Not handicapped angel that couldn't fly because her bum-wings couldn't lift her from the ground. Old Morgana couldn't fly because her wings were shredded. New Morgana can't fly out of choice, because she's choosing to walk and side with mortals or whathaveyou. You can see her lowest set of wings are bound and drag behind her with her skirts, so she's obviously not going to be using those either to fly.
: Old lore, not relevant now. Almost all spirits in fiction are either scantily clad (genies, nymphs, and nature spirits), warrior spirits (with armor and weapons and stuff), or spooky bois (demons, ghosts, and the like)
> [{quoted}](name=WAZZZUP500,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=0000000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:35:55.392+0000) > > Old lore, not relevant now. Almost all spirits in fiction are either scantily clad (genies, nymphs, and nature spirits), warrior spirits (with armor and weapons and stuff), or spooky bois (demons, ghosts, and the like) Yes, but Janna's look was never changed with her lore retcon. So your argument is a moot point considering that she was designed as a wind prostitute BEFORE she was retconned into being a mythical creature.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Garen is a Juggernaut, a subclass of the Tank archetype. So yes, he's a tank. He even gets around 1000 gold in resists for farming. Kench isn't just an Absolute Unit, he's also wearing TWO coats. He's bulletproof {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:13:19.586+0000) > > Garen is a Juggernaut, a subclass of the Tank archetype. > So yes, he's a tank. He even gets around 1000 gold in resists for farming. > > Kench isn't just an Absolute Unit, he's also wearing TWO coats. He's bulletproof {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} [You are quite wrong](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses): https://imgur.com/a/IFjPU0m Tanks are broken into Wardens and Vanguards. Fighters are broken into Juggernauts and Divers. Garen is a Juggernaut, which is in the fighter class. This is indicative because he has no CC to speak of in his kit, which is what Tanks are defined by since their task is to control the front lines of a fight with CC.
Wolfeur (EUW)
: Technically, so does new Kayle…
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfeur,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cX9cyVNp,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:59:39.042+0000) > > Technically, so does new Kayle… Yeah, except new Kayle is supposed to be the status quo that the skins deviate from. She's not supposed to be a deviation right from the start.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:01:32.208+0000) > > That's the most bullshit excuse I've ever heard. Tham Kench isn't weating platemail, yet he's a tank. Gragas is barely clothed, yet he's supposed to be a durable AP juggernaut. Garen is wearing full armor, yet he's a bruiser, and not a tank. Amumu isn't wearing any armor, he's a corpse wrapped in toilet paper, yet he's a tank. The whole "she's not wearing armor because she's a carry" is such utter bullshit. Tahm Kench and Gragas are two massive champions, same goes for Sion. Garen carries a massive sword, same goes for Darius. All of these things help portray a character's role in the game. The issue with Kayle is that she looked like a tank comparable to Leona given the size of the armor which is seemingly why Riot removed it from her design, as to not make visuals and gameplay clash.
> [{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=KNuGtsjv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-19T15:05:05.677+0000) > > Tahm Kench and Gragas are two massive champions, same goes for Sion. Garen carries a massive sword, same goes for Darius. > > All of these things help portray a character's role in the game. The issue with Kayle is that she looked like a tank comparable to Leona given the size of the armor which is seemingly why Riot removed it from her design, as to not make visuals and gameplay clash. Gragas isn't a tank, and being a fat man with a beer keg doesn't convey "I'm a mage juggernaut." Garen, by all accounts, matches every example of what you'd consider the token tank character, yet he's not. Their looks CAN help portray their role in the game, but there are too many instances where it doesn't, and Riot is backing themselves into a corner if they're going to use that reasoning for future design. You lose out on a lot of really innovative or neat character ideas or concepts if you go with stereotypical role/design looks, and it's one of the reasons why Shen is kind of interesting as a character.
: The removal of Kayle's armor makes sense. (Sort of)
That's the most bullshit excuse I've ever heard. Tham Kench isn't weating platemail, yet he's a tank. Gragas is barely clothed, yet he's supposed to be a durable AP juggernaut. Garen is wearing full armor, yet he's a bruiser, and not a tank. Amumu isn't wearing any armor, he's a corpse wrapped in toilet paper, yet he's a tank. The whole "she's not wearing armor because she's a carry" is such utter bullshit.
Wolfeur (EUW)
: That's not the point. Even with skins, the identity is there. People weren't complaining about Aether Wing Kayle not having armor because armor is, in the end, not the important part of Kayle's visual identity.
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfeur,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cX9cyVNp,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:46:37.840+0000) > > That's not the point. Even with skins, the identity is there. People weren't complaining about Aether Wing Kayle not having armor because armor is, in the end, not the important part of Kayle's visual identity. Aetherwing has armor though.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=0000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:41:17.468+0000) > > Kayle isn't Demacian. The blurb on the main page about the teaser movie indicates that she's a part of the Celestial Aspect of Justice in Targon. She's currently in Demacia and her armor has the same aesthetics. Regardless, Targon is supposed to be Greco-Roman. They didn't really have tight skin suits there either. > Maybe not, but when Kayle was initially conceived, they didn't have the technology to make champions as fluid and mobile and acrobatic as they have in recent years, so her movements were always stiffer because of that. The issue of bending and twisting and all of this as part of her animations was never really a thing before. I mean, it's not like you are physically incapable of "bending and twisting" just because you wear armor.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=00000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:44:06.633+0000) > > She's currently in Demacia and her armor has the same aesthetics. > > Regardless, Targon is supposed to be Greco-Roman. They didn't really have tight skin suits there either. At CURRENT she's in Demacia, but that was pre-rework. Her rework seems to indicate she's Targonian, so we can't make assumptions about her design based on where they lumped her when she had nowhere else to go. Morgana was placed in Demacia too... Also, below are images of Leona and Diana, where you can see the skin tight suits that their outfits incorporate. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/Diana_Render.png/revision/latest?cb=20140927165601 https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Leona_0.jpg > > I mean, it's not like you are physically incapable of "bending and twisting" just because you wear armor. You're not, but from a computer graphic design perspective, if you have a character built with a large breast plate as part of their chest, certain movements will stretch and bend that piece of armor in ways that it physically shouldn't be able to stretch, which people will notice. So for instance, in the gif below, if there was an armor plate on the bicep, when it flexed, that plate would bulge like in the gif, which is not what armor should be doing. http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/sgrais/images/Squash%20and%20Stretch/arm.gif
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=00000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:22:18.933+0000) > > Because they've always modernized costuming to some degree, as does pretty much any game that's trying to be sheer entertainment and less of a historical fiction. Costumes like Sona's, Zoe's, and Lux's aren't "pseudo-medieval," and god knows Camille, Vi, and Caitlyn aren't wearing "pseudo-medieval" costumes. Even Ezreal's and Tahm Kench's outfits don't adhere to the same "pseudo-medieval" design, and are more akin to modern designs. So you can't really make the point that League is somehow missing the mark for historical accuracy, when none of their designs are intended to be completely period accurate. Well, yeah, Runeterra as a whole is a mish-mash of all kinds of different time periods. But Demacia itself is supposed to be very medieval-esque, and Kayle's new design just looks weird in that context. > This isn't to say I completely agree with her costume choice though, I was just pointing out how from a game character design aspect why she may have been put in more flexible clothing instead of heavy armor. Going by that logic, Kayle shouldn't have been in heavy plate armor from the beginning.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:37:17.158+0000) > > Well, yeah, Runeterra as a whole is a mish-mash of all kinds of different time periods. > > But Demacia itself is supposed to be very medieval-esque, and Kayle's new design just looks weird in that context. > Kayle isn't Demacian. The blurb on the main page about the teaser movie indicates that she's a part of the Celestial Aspect of Justice in Targon. > Going by that logic, Kayle shouldn't have been in heavy plate armor from the beginning. Maybe not, but when Kayle was initially conceived, they didn't have the technology to make champions as fluid and mobile and acrobatic as they have in recent years, so her movements were always stiffer because of that. The issue of bending and twisting and all of this as part of her animations was never really a thing before.
Wolfeur (EUW)
: "Armor is an integral part of Kayle's identity"
First of all, it's stupid to select two modern designs (Pentakill, Riot) that would obviously not be wearing a lot of armor based on what they're inspired from to justify your point. A metal musician is not going to be wearing lots of armor, though she DOES wear armor plating in some areas, and a police officer is CLEARLY not going to be wearing medieval armor. So those two are obviously really inappropriate examples. Aetherwing is wearing armor, she's got a visible breast plate, plus, like the others above, her fantasy is one of Hextech and steam punk, which would pull from the more modern designs of Zaun and Piltover. The other two are good points, though the costumes in those skins is not badly conceived like it is in her new base skin. These skins work fluidly with the form fitting suit they utilize, and they were different interpretations of Kayle that deviated from her base skin where she wears more armor - that's part of what makes them unique. But if base Kayle doesn't have a lot of armor, that causes problems, because basic Kayle has ALWAYS been defined by being a Samus Aran style character wearing ambiguous armor.
: I don't think it's that bad I just don't want the unnecessary sexualization and want her to have bigger wings.
> [{quoted}](name=Camille Ferrøs,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JAp0mcAL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:35:35.360+0000) > > I don't think it's that bad I just don't want the unnecessary sexualization and want her to have bigger wings. The bigger wings is a no. There's only so much space within the scope of her champion model, so unless you want her to be a micro-human like she used to be, her wings have got to be smaller. This isn't like Aatrox where his wings appear only temporarily, her wings are always on.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-02-19T13:53:39.753+0000) > > Well no shit, but Riot isn't remaking the bible into a video game. They're pulling inspiration from lots of sources, while also applying modern aesthetics and costume design. Unless they're "pulling inspiration" from games that exactly do make their angels sexualized to rake in cash, nobody that've tried to portray angels seriously puts them in tight skin suits. Also, why would they be applying "modern aesthetics" and "costume design" to a game that takes place in pseudo-medieval ages?
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T13:59:55.996+0000) > > Unless they're "pulling inspiration" from games that exactly do make their angels sexualized to rake in cash, nobody that've tried to portray angels seriously puts them in tight skin suits. > > Also, why would they be applying "modern aesthetics" and "costume design" to a game that takes place in pseudo-medieval ages? Because they've always modernized costuming to some degree, as does pretty much any game that's trying to be sheer entertainment and less of a historical fiction. Costumes like Sona's, Zoe's, and Lux's aren't "pseudo-medieval," and god knows Camille, Vi, and Caitlyn aren't wearing "pseudo-medieval" costumes. Even Ezreal's and Tahm Kench's outfits don't adhere to the same "pseudo-medieval" design, and are more akin to modern designs. So you can't really make the point that League is somehow missing the mark for historical accuracy, when none of their designs are intended to be completely period accurate. This isn't to say I completely agree with her costume choice though, I was just pointing out how from a game character design aspect why she may have been put in more flexible clothing instead of heavy armor.
Terozu (NA)
: That ending quote with Kayle and Morg.
My understanding of the blurb on the main page is that they ARE NOT the hosts, but actually beings born from the Celestial Aspect itself (I really fucking hate Riot for naming the god being and their worldly avatar the exact same title, it's so convoluted to discuss). So I think they're more on par with Bard or Soraka more than anything, and above the power level of like Taric, Diana, and Zoe.
: The biggest misunderstanding about Kai'sa is that she never went into the void itself. Just underground tunnels 'infected' by the void.
> [{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sHGIBEhv,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T07:25:58.793+0000) > > The biggest misunderstanding about Kai'sa is that she never went into the void itself. Just underground tunnels 'infected' by the void. Yeah, and that was pretty stupid. It took someone who had the potential to do something actually legendary (going INTO the Void and surviving), and gave them the half-assed reach around that didn't really amount to anything. It's like driving all the way to Orlando, Florida, and hanging out in the parking lot of Disney World instead of actually going in.
: That's not a mistake, it's another view: To understand why Kayle has purple on her body you have to realize that Morgana has gold on hers too. They wanted to give the sisters a deeper conection and that's why both have a bit of the other on their new design. Dislike it or like It, but at least understand why they have done it.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=L44OEEEE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-18T23:11:03.822+0000) > > That's not a mistake, it's another view: > > To understand why Kayle has purple on her body you have to realize that Morgana has gold on hers too. > They wanted to give the sisters a deeper conection and that's why both have a bit of the other on their new design. > > Dislike it or like It, but at least understand why they have done it. Here's why they have shared color pallets: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Yin_yang.svg/260px-Yin_yang.svg.png Kayle and Morgana are and have always been aimed towards the same end goal, with different methods of getting there. Originally, Morgana turned to magic to try and turn the tide of war against her people, which angered her sister - but ultimately, Morgana's intentions were the same as Kayle's, to end the war. Now, they're both beings born of the Celestial Aspect of Justice, still choosing different paths to bring about their goal. They are the same things, they represent the same idea, but they're as different as light and darkness in how they get there. Just like in the Yin Yang, Kayle on the whole represents light, purity, and righteousness, but she's got darkness within her, which is that blind hatred for anything that defies her ideals, and her indiscriminate methods of purging those who break the rules. On the flip side, we have Morgana, who represents darkness and moral ambiguity. She has light within her though, because despite her sinister approach to things, she actually cares about the world and the people within it, and she is willing to save them. So this is why they have shared color pallets. They're the Yin Yang, the same concept, yet different methods. They are the extremism of two ends of the same stick.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ut9tA58Z,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-19T13:30:15.806+0000) > > At the expense of the consumers of his product. You mean at the expense of a few people who whine on the boards.
> [{quoted}](name=ZaFishbone,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ut9tA58Z,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T13:54:27.973+0000) > > You mean at the expense of a few people who whine on the boards. No, at the expense of consumers and the characters he's poorly designing costumes for. He's actively hamstringing these characters, and I don't understand how he can do someone as magnificent as Bard or Nunu, and then resort to skintight suits with minor armor pieces for females. Like, the man CLEARLY CANNOT DESIGN for women. At all. After the backlash Kai'Sa got, I don't understand why they thought it wise for the man to design for another female character since he's got no concept of how these characters are supposed to dress or fit into their world.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:34:39.682+0000) > > A few reasons for this: > Kayle is supposed to look mobile, doing all sorts of dives, spins, twists, and whatnot as she fights (since she's airborne). If they had made her model fully armored, it'd look really awkward with the way she's moving, because her armor (which is supposed to be solid metal) would bend and twist in ways it shouldn't, that's probably the major reason why her main body isn't fully coated in armor. A second reason would probably be because as an angel, she's supposed to be able to fight and fly, and heavy armor could be cumbersome, thematically, and wouldn't make a lot of sense for a character who's supposed to fly as her main mode of transportation. Pretty sure Biblical Angels don't wear latex suits.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-02-19T07:19:20.272+0000) > > Pretty sure Biblical Angels don't wear latex suits. Well no shit, but Riot isn't remaking the bible into a video game. They're pulling inspiration from lots of sources, while also applying modern aesthetics and costume design.
: Probably because janna is thought of as a motherly figure/protector by the people who have experienced her presence. She's not just a "girl with wind magic", she's basically a god (in zaun)
> [{quoted}](name=WAZZZUP500,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=00000005,timestamp=2019-02-19T12:47:09.837+0000) > > Probably because janna is thought of as a motherly figure/protector by the people who have experienced her presence. She's not just a "girl with wind magic", she's basically a god (in zaun) In her old lore, which I was referring to, Janna is a prodigy mage who specialized in wind magic to the point that her physical features changed (ears). I am aware she has been retconned to be a spirit.
: The Last Varus Post, and Why The Retcon Still Matters
I would rather you have written out your topic, since you know, we're on forums and not the comment section of Youtube.
: > Morgana has the same number of wings Kayle has. The lowest two are bound and hang wit her dress. Her next set are in her lower back, but she holds them near her hips, and the upper set are obviously around the back of her neck. Kayle has shoulder blade wings by default, and they look good. You only see Kayle's other wings when she activates an ability. Even though I didn't see Morgana's dress wings, my point still stands > Plus, I never really liked the gigantic wings anyway, they took up a lot of her visual space and didn't really contribute a lot to her visually. You were basically playing a giant set of angsty wings instead of an angel. I think the new look works very well and modernizes the fallen angel in a unique way. That's your opinion, but if you look at her default splash, you can see what they intended default morgana to look like. That's what I want morgana to be as close to as possible because it fits her theme. The wings are meant to be grand, grey and dark -in my mind > Plus, the reason Riot stated they did SG Soraka's and Dragon Sorceress Zyra's wings as lower back wings was because biologically, if humans had wings, that's where the center of gravity would be where the wings would be able to lift our mass off the ground with the most minimal efforts. If humans had wings our center of gravity would be in a much different place, we would not have such long/dangly/heavy legs etc. Natural selection never leads to "humans with wings" so if you want to be realistic from a biological perspective, why are you okay with humans with wings?
> [{quoted}](name=BigBrainSuppMain,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OhyOnruW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:11:38.747+0000) > > Kayle has shoulder blade wings by default, and they look good. You only see Kayle's other wings when she activates an ability. Even though I didn't see Morgana's dress wings, my point still stands > > That's your opinion, but if you look at her default splash, you can see what they intended default morgana to look like. That's what I want morgana to be as close to as possible because it fits her theme. The wings are meant to be grand, grey and dark -in my mind > > If humans had wings our center of gravity would be in a much different place, we would not have such long/dangly/heavy legs etc. Natural selection never leads to "humans with wings" so if you want to be realistic from a biological perspective, why are you okay with humans with wings? I was merely stating why they chose to do the lower body wings.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:01:27.847+0000) > > Build an argument then, because just screaming that it's bad isn't conducive to getting your point across. > > Say "I don't like this rework because Kayle was originally blah blah blah, and in her new rework they did this to these core concepts by blah blah blah," and so forth. Actually create a well thought out argument to convey your point instead of just bluntly thrusting your opinion in people's faces with no backing. People discount you and tune you out if you repeat childish, pouty phrases in thread after thread, and then your point is dead before anyone can even give thought to it. Ok, here's the thing: What would be the point. I'm just a fucking rando on the internet. I could potentially write a lengthy post on how i think characters are being deleted and all that. Tell me, what the fuck would that change? Nothing, there's no point in doing that. I don't give a crap if someone dislikes my opinion. I don't give a fuck if i get downvoted. I'll still be there, to hate on something i think should not exist. And i'll still bash on toxic assholes who think it's a good idea to expose their stupid chat logs, then think they are not going to be trashed for that, between voicing my opinions. I fucking hate when someone takes my choice away, and since i'm powerless in this situation, the only thing i can do, is to throw garbage at something i don't like, while expecting no results from my bashing. Face it, we are on boards. Almost nobody is listening to us, unless they get notified on Reddit. That's the reality.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:09:15.385+0000) > > Ok, here's the thing: What would be the point. I'm just a fucking rando on the internet. I could potentially write a lengthy post on how i think characters are being deleted and all that. > > Tell me, what the fuck would that change? Nothing, there's no point in doing that. > > I don't give a crap if someone dislikes my opinion. I don't give a fuck if i get downvoted. I'll still be there, to hate on something i think should not exist. And i'll still bash on toxic assholes who think it's a good idea to expose their stupid chat logs, then think they are not going to be trashed for that, between voicing my opinions. > > I fucking hate when someone takes my choice away, and since i'm powerless in this situation, the only thing i can do, is to throw garbage at something i don't like, while expecting no results from my bashing. > > Face it, we are on boards. Almost nobody is listening to us, unless they get notified on Reddit. That's the reality. If that's your train of thought, why are you blasting the threads of people in general instead of targeting Rioters on Reddit or wherever who would be the ones who would be the ones to make the most of hearing your opinion? Hate it all you want, but if it isn't going to get you any results, why even bother ranting about it in the first place? Why shit on other people's excitement for something because you're bitter and salty about it? That's all the more reason for you to make your own thread, so you can draw in people who commiserate with your opinion, instead of just generally being disrespectful of other people's happiness.
: She doesn't. She chose a form she's comfortable with. She probably doesn't even understand what "sexually provocative" is.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:05:40.778+0000) > > She doesn't. She chose a form she's comfortable with. She probably doesn't even understand what "sexually provocative" is. That I don't think I'd believe, considering that she is in pretty close proximity to quite a lot of humans. She'd pick up how humans dress and what behaviors they'd elicit because of their dress, unless she's stupid, which I refuse to believe.
: SHINING HEAVEN AMATERASU (Smite) IRELIA SKIN! - League of Legends (Fan)
Doesn't she basically have this skin already in Divine Sword Irelia?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:53:41.187+0000) > > Yeah, but be constructive about it. You sound naïve and childish just saying "WAH, I HATE IT!" instead of giving actual reasons WHY you believe they are worse. I don't care if they are better. Choice is being taken from me, and i refuse to be silent about it. I lose my champions, and that's not something i greatly fucking enjoy.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:57:21.356+0000) > > I don't care if they are better. Choice is being taken from me, and i refuse to be silent about it. I lose my champions, and that's not something i greatly fucking enjoy. Build an argument then, because just screaming that it's bad isn't conducive to getting your point across. Say "I don't like this rework because Kayle was originally blah blah blah, and in her new rework they did this to these core concepts by blah blah blah," and so forth. Actually create a well thought out argument to convey your point instead of just bluntly thrusting your opinion in people's faces with no backing. People discount you and tune you out if you repeat childish, pouty phrases in thread after thread, and then your point is dead before anyone can even give thought to it.
Terozu (NA)
: Her appearance is based off her believers. She's skimpy because her followers portray her as skimpy. Shes based off of greek spirits, who were all naked. It makes perfect sense since dieties are often portrayed in little to no clothing since they are supposed to be perfect. Why would Zaun be any different?
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:43:23.963+0000) > > Her appearance is based off her believers. She's skimpy because her followers portray her as skimpy. > > Shes based off of greek spirits, who were all naked. It makes perfect sense since dieties are often portrayed in little to no clothing since they are supposed to be perfect. Why would Zaun be any different? So she appears as a barely clothed woman to a young gay boy in her flavor story because why then?
: That isn't the form she is in most often from my understanding, though. What I got from her (probably outdated/temporary) lore is that she is often a blue bird, or just not really seen at all, rather felt. It is my understanding that she only assumes a humanoid form when directly interacting with someone. And also, I believe Janna is in closer contact with humanity than Mao and Ivern are, which I believe lead her to pursue a more humanoid form so we could better relate to her.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:44:02.487+0000) > > That isn't the form she is in most often from my understanding, though. What I got from her (probably outdated/temporary) lore is that she is often a blue bird, or just not really seen at all, rather felt. It is my understanding that she only assumes a humanoid form when directly interacting with someone. > > And also, I believe Janna is in closer contact with humanity than Mao and Ivern are, which I believe lead her to pursue a more humanoid form so we could better relate to her. Yes, we do see her as a blue bird a lot, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense as to why she actively chooses to be sexually provocative in her dealings with humans.
Yara0 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:17:32.003+0000) > > Janna's sex appeal is not part of her story and doesn't fit her character of being a protector spirit, nor did it fit her character of being a girl gifted with wind magic. She's sexed up for no damn reason, and has been since the start. > Why is Lulu included in this topic at all? I mean it used to fit jannas character.
> [{quoted}](name=Yara0,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:50:23.628+0000) > > I mean it used to fit jannas character. As a girl gifted with magic, who was the prodigy mage of Zaun? Who owned an airship? How so?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:39:52.439+0000) > > Yeah, you are not telling me how i'm supposed to behave. I'm not telling you to stop praising the shit out of bad decisions, right? > > I hate reworks, and i will say that whenever i can on those boards. Yeah, but be constructive about it. You sound naïve and childish just saying "WAH, I HATE IT!" instead of giving actual reasons WHY you believe they are worse.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Of course, they always do when they do a VU/VGU for champions. It would be weird if just the base skin got better and the old stuff stayed the same. They likely completely redid every single one of Kayle's and Morgana's skins from the ground up to match their new models, including any special particle effects for the skins that have different effects than the base.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:34:56.061+0000) > > Of course, they always do when they do a VU/VGU for champions. It would be weird if just the base skin got better and the old stuff stayed the same. > > They likely completely redid every single one of Kayle's and Morgana's skins from the ground up to match their new models. This! It's especially important for Riot to fully update skins because some may become redundant or may have been in need of severe updating. For instance, now that Kayle removes her helmet as part of her gameplay, the skin Unmasked Kayle no longer has anything special about it - this means they'll likely replace it with something else entirely, similar to how they replaced Crimson Akali, which was just a red Akali, with Infernal Akali. Furthermore, updates generally replace not only the model (the outward look) but the animation rigging as well. The rigging is the "skeleton" of the character, and tells it how to move and operate. So originally, it may have moved like a Barbie doll moves - she only has joints in her shoulders and hips, and she had specific clothes that fit her and moved with that articulation. But now you've upgraded your Barbie doll for one of those insanely articulated Japanese dolls that have joints in like the hands and each finger, as well as different bends in the torso, and so forth. Barbie's clothes aren't going to fit this doll anymore, so you're going to have to get clothes specifically designed for this doll. This is kind of the concept here with the skins - they were designed specifically to work with one specific set of articulation, but won't be able to be applied to a brand new one that will have new points of articulation.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: It seems so. Un-fucking-fortunately.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Etcdptlg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:34:35.486+0000) > > It seems so. Un-fucking-fortunately. You need to chill out. We get that you despise updates. Make your own thread about it, but it gets tiring seeing you blast the same lines out on every single thread mentioning Morgana and Kayle's update. You're not even contributing, you're just complaining without substance or reasoning other than you hate reworks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IjH3Xc35,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:24:50.429+0000) > > Q is like the least used word in the English language, and there really aren't many names that start with it. The few that do grammatically have to be followed by a U, and that tends to leave most Q names looking similar, unless you dip off into Chinese naming like "Qin," which that even treads on similar territory with Quinn and even Xin Zhao. Q in chinese is the sound CH example Qing is Ching
> [{quoted}](name=Calamitosus Cini,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IjH3Xc35,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:34:02.848+0000) > > Q in chinese is the sound CH Your point?
: Janna is a wind spirit. Technically, she should be naked, because spirits have no need for human clothing, and clothing in general is confining. Its not to make her "sexy". That's just how she is.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:24:31.455+0000) > > Janna is a wind spirit. Technically, she should be naked, because spirits have no need for human clothing, and clothing in general is confining. Its not to make her "sexy". That's just how she is. Janna is a wind spirit, and thus isn't beholden to having boobs or lady parts or an ass that needs covering with clothing or generally bothering herself with a physical humanoid form at all that would necessitate nakedness. So you're right, Janna doesn't need clothes, but then she also doesn't need a physical body that looks like a human. So therefore, Riot's design direction for Janna is sexed up for no damn reason whatsoever. It's like if Ivern or Maokai had been designed with a giant vine and a pair of grapefruits dangling between their legs. They have no reason whatsoever to look humanoid or mimic human body parts, so they don't - yet why does Janna?
: Do you want new champion's name starting with Q?
Q is like the least used word in the English language, and there really aren't many names that start with it. The few that do grammatically have to be followed by a U, and that tends to leave most Q names looking similar, unless you dip off into Chinese naming like "Qin," which that even treads on similar territory with Quinn and even Xin Zhao.
Heretics (EUW)
: Return morganas wings where they belong.
I like her wings where they are. It gives her a much more interesting profile, makes her look less generic, and overall pulls off the dark sorceress look a lot better than she ever has.
: "Sex sells" is legitimate as long as it does not hinder character identity/theme/coherence
Janna's sex appeal is not part of her story and doesn't fit her character of being a protector spirit, nor did it fit her character of being a girl gifted with wind magic. She's sexed up for no damn reason, and has been since the start. Why is Lulu included in this topic at all?
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:54:29.204+0000) > > Maybe you can hold that suit, but not the giant pauldrons and breastplate and greaves that old Kayle wears. Those pieces of armor distinctly have thickness to them, which is very much indicative that they're not paper thin sheet plating like the armor you posted an image of. then give her this suit, not a bicycle suit. That's is all I care about, and you are defending a bicycle suit.
> [{quoted}](name=Boatwhistle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:56:53.258+0000) > > then give her this suit, not a bicycle suit. That's is all I care about, and you are defending a bicycle suit. I'm not defending the bicycle suit, I'm defending their choice not to give her full medieval armor. The "bicycle suit" can easily be modified with a texture change to be something more fitting to her design.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:45:56.081+0000) > > It's not a misconception, because you are still carrying a suit of armor on your body. Whether it feels cumbersome or not is irrelevant to the actual weight wearing iron/steel plates adds to your overall body weight. Someone like Kayle, who is a flyer, would not need to be coated in heavy metal, because that would greatly reduce her capacity for flight, at least not without tiring herself out. It's one thing to carry something heavy from one room to another - you generally don't exert much more effort on your body moving across a level plane - but you DO exert a lot more effort on your body lifting something heavy, as you are constantly exerting energy to defy gravity's pull on the object. So if you're wearing heavy armor, and needing to fly, change altitudes, or maneuver in the air, you would constantly be taxing your body and you'd be pretty much useless after a short while without resting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI And again its really not that heavy, I am a history buff and have had the pleasure of handling such reproductions. I can probably hold a suit like the one in this video with one finger.
> [{quoted}](name=Boatwhistle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:50:52.199+0000) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI > And again its really not that heavy, I am a history buff and have had the pleasure of handling such reproductions. I can probably hold a suit like the one in this video with one finger. Maybe you can hold that suit, but not the giant pauldrons and breastplate and greaves that old Kayle wears. Those pieces of armor distinctly have thickness to them, which is very much indicative that they're not paper thin sheet plating like the armor you posted an image of.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:34:39.682+0000) > > A few reasons for this: > Kayle is supposed to look mobile, doing all sorts of dives, spins, twists, and whatnot as she fights (since she's airborne). If they had made her model fully armored, it'd look really awkward with the way she's moving, because her armor (which is supposed to be solid metal) would bend and twist in ways it shouldn't, that's probably the major reason why her main body isn't fully coated in armor. A second reason would probably be because as an angel, she's supposed to be able to fight and fly, and heavy armor could be cumbersome, thematically, and wouldn't make a lot of sense for a character who's supposed to fly as her main mode of transportation. wrong sir, it is a misconception that full plate armor make people cumbersome. In reality properly made plate armor adds an unnoticeable amount of weight to the wearer and doesn't greatly restrict movement as much as one might think. As for how it would effect a persons winged flight, I don't know there are no real life examples. Regardless, why an ugly cyclists suit?
> [{quoted}](name=Boatwhistle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2sNsG9xe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:40:17.590+0000) > > wrong sir, it is a misconception that full plate armor make people cumbersome. In reality properly made plate armor adds an unnoticeable amount of weight to the wearer. As for how t would effect a persons winged flight, I don't know their are no real life examples. Regardless, why an ugly cyclists suit? It's not a misconception, because you are still carrying a suit of armor on your body. Whether it feels cumbersome or not is irrelevant to the actual weight wearing iron/steel plates adds to your overall body weight. Someone like Kayle, who is a flyer, would not need to be coated in heavy metal, because that would greatly reduce her capacity for flight, at least not without tiring herself out. It's one thing to carry something heavy from one room to another - you generally don't exert much more effort on your body moving across a level plane - but you DO exert a lot more effort on your body lifting something heavy, as you are constantly exerting energy to defy gravity's pull on the object. So if you're wearing heavy armor, and needing to fly, change altitudes, or maneuver in the air, you would constantly be taxing your body and you'd be pretty much useless after a short while without resting.
Baval (NA)
: New Kayle
Why is EVERY SINGLE PERSON forgetting that Kayle starts off with small wings, but gets FOUR MORE later in the game? Her initial set of wings _are supposed to be small_, as it's indicative that she's not yet at her full power, but once she gets all six, she's much more imposing. So you really shouldn't be comparing Kayle to her weaker form, you should be comparing her to her final form. https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ffixlkmb.jpg%5B%2FIMG%5D&key=f0abbd34f14549f3a15cd94dd9970851&width=425
: Just wached the video of kayle and morganas rework.
A few reasons for this: Kayle is supposed to look mobile, doing all sorts of dives, spins, twists, and whatnot as she fights (since she's airborne). If they had made her model fully armored, it'd look really awkward with the way she's moving, because her armor (which is supposed to be solid metal) would bend and twist in ways it shouldn't, that's probably the major reason why her main body isn't fully coated in armor. A second reason would probably be because as an angel, she's supposed to be able to fight and fly, and heavy armor could be cumbersome, thematically, and wouldn't make a lot of sense for a character who's supposed to fly as her main mode of transportation.
: Morgana's new wings...
Morgana has the same number of wings Kayle has. The lowest two are bound and hang wit her dress. Her next set are in her lower back, but she holds them near her hips, and the upper set are obviously around the back of her neck. Plus, I never really liked the gigantic wings anyway, they took up a lot of her visual space and didn't really contribute a lot to her visually. You were basically playing a giant set of angsty wings instead of an angel. I think the new look works very well and modernizes the fallen angel in a unique way. Plus, the reason Riot stated they did SG Soraka's and Dragon Sorceress Zyra's wings as lower back wings was because biologically, if humans had wings, that's where the center of gravity would be where the wings would be able to lift our mass off the ground with the most minimal efforts.
: > [{quoted}](name=LusterCrown,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRqVucOp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T19:56:50.738+0000) > > Why you guys hating her butt wings? Yeah maybe the second pair should be set more upper but the third pair looks pretty much fine covered and bound with ribbon and those hexagonal rings^^ Morg, not Kayle. Morg only has the bottom set.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRqVucOp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:15:10.951+0000) > > Morg, not Kayle. Morg only has the bottom set. Morgana has 3 sets. Two on her upper back that she folds around her neck like a collar, the two on her lower back that she hangs near her hips (the so called "butt wings"), and then the third set is bound behind her with her dress, and drags the ground. She has the same wing formation as Kayle in her ultimate form, but they're just not positioned fully outstretched like Kayle's.
Sforces (NA)
: Klepto getting nerfed hard soon
Well, Riot shouldn't have buffed it to begin with in preseason, and everyone told them that. Ezreal abused the shit out of it, so it's not any wonder it became more widespread after that.
Naalith (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ITnZtjgt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T19:20:26.542+0000) > > Maybe. But since no rework is good, it's not really an achievement. I can maybe understand that you hate gameplay reworks, even though most would argue it's for the best (with a few exceptions, hey Galio), but how can you shit on a purely visual update on what is literally a walking tent? It's 2019 and you're mad we don't have PS2 characters walking around.
> [{quoted}](name=Naalith,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ITnZtjgt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T20:02:06.064+0000) > > I can maybe understand that you hate gameplay reworks, even most would argue it's for the best (with a few exceptions, hey Galio), but how can you shit on a purely visual update on what is literally a walking tent? It's 2019 and you're mad we don't have PS2 characters walking around. Ignore him, he's been raining on the parade pretty much all morning. He's one of those people who prefers his music on vinyl and his movies on VHS, so all change to him is going to be for the worst.
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Oleandervine

Level 177 (NA)
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