: In the wake of Aatrox's VGU: The aftermath of the Darkin Wars and the Rise of the Revenant
Would there have been a vacuum of power in the Noxus region though, where Mordekaiser built his empire? As we're assuming from Aatrox's lore, the Darkin were focused around Shurima, with the Targonian aspects popping in to help. We don't have a solid map yet, but I was under the impression that Noxus was quite far from Shurima, and given that Shurima still pretty much was left abandoned until Azir's resurrection. It's hard to pitch a theory that he capitalized on a power vacancy if the region he was most influential in was quite far from Shurima, and again quite hard to pitch a theory of a power vacancy if he didn't step in and take Shurima for his own.
: Riot, BEFORE You Rework Another Champion, PLEASE...
Do less than 10 people qualify as a community?
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIUEmAmK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-21T12:32:59.364+0000) > > Someone is salty. > For the record, you don't have to use expressly utility items to support. There are MANY types of support styles, such as poke, lockdown, and of course utility. I like his aggressive playstyle. He has at most a 46-47% winrate in all tiers. Support main by the way. Nice try though.
Then you know not all supports need to use utility or pure support items to work. Sona, for example, excels very well going AP, just as Lux does. So while there are no pure AD support items, you can make it work with Pyke, who is designed to use full damage and not generally to provide pure utility. His ultimate is a case in point that he's encouraged to kill.
Lakrosin (NA)
: Things wrong with Pyke. Some which have nothing to do with him:
Someone is salty. For the record, you don't have to use expressly utility items to support. There are MANY types of support styles, such as poke, lockdown, and of course utility.
: Learn more: VS 2018 Event
Is it possible to do both quest lines, like the last VS event, or will we only be able to do one ever?
Tialilia (EUW)
: It seems that the Darkins gonna become a "faction" in League as well
We got Shurima lore and icons in 2014 with Azir's release. We got the Shadow Isles icon either that year or the following year with the Harrowing. The Freljord was apparently back in 2013, when they first began reinventing the lore, though it could use an update since the lore has changed a lot more dramatically since then. So the only ones we're missing are Bandle City. The Vastaya are far too diverse to be under the same sigil or banner, because they're composed of a myriad of tribes sprinkled all over the world.
: Please, don't try to apply logic to fanfiction; it's a sure way to give yourself a severe headache.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=i7lbRoy8,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-06-20T16:25:39.337+0000) > > That's a very colorful opinion you've created. It's fact. > Isis isn't the mother of all gods. She mothered many gods, but many more gods existed before her. Queen Isis has many other names, and more ancient forms (Nammu / Tiamat) which demonstrate that she is indeed the mother of all gods. > The word "queen" actually derives from the Old English word "cwene" or "woman," which has shared roots with an older, Indo-European word found in Greece, "gune," also "woman." It also derives from "gene", this is why another name for her is "Inanna", it derives from "DNA", Or "Diana". > Also, I'm not terribly certain how you think a pyramid, which is 4 triangles and a square bottom, have 8 sides. The great pyramid has 8 sides, not 4. It was built precisely to align with the equinoxes. > What you refer to in regards to what you think Isis embodies is the period in late Egyptian history and during the Roman times when Isis basically became an amalgam of all these other Egyptian gods. While you're technically correct, during this time, the Egyptian pantheon was eroding due to Christianity, and much of the beliefs were being condensed, so this Isis wouldn't have been a "true" version of herself. The egyptian mythology is only one of the many same histories of an ancient queen goddess that gave birth to all the gods, Queen Isis, Queen Mary, Queen Tiamat, Queen Nammu, she has many names and is not strictly contained within one mythology. > Isis does have connections to motherhood, but in the actual pantheon before Christianity eroded it, this was Hathor's role, as she was the goddess of motherhood and fertility. Atum, Isis' great grandfather, was the god who created everything, as he even created himself from the infinite void, and soon after, his children. The god of light was a title that belonged to Isis' son, Horus. About the only thing you listed that she is associated with in the older myths where she's an individual god is her association with magic. Queen Isis is Hathor, they are the same goddess, just different names to fulfill her parables. > Her main role in the pantheon was a patron of magic, and as well as acting as a guide for those who had died. She's most famous for the resurrection of her husband, Osiris, and her cunning in outsmarting Set. She's also associated with the sky, like her mother, Nut, though she has stronger connections to rain and rainfall. She was actually a fairly minor god until she was tied heavily towards being a mother of all pharaohs by later rulers. Queen Isis gave life to the inanimate, that is what they call "Magic", this later evolved into the word "Machine". The human body and all things in design move in "parts", like a machine. The word "Machine" derives from "Matrix", which is Latin for "Mother". > As for her association with the planetary body we know as Venus, that could be true. But it wouldn't have been called Venus in Egyptian times, as that is a Greek deity name that we've adopted for the planet, so equating her to Aphrodite/Venus is a fallacy. It's a known fact that Venus and Queen Isis are the one in the same. The Mayans associated her with Queen Isis, and used Venus as a beacon of light to measure and calculate the cosmos to a precise consensus, thus the Tzolk'in calendar was born. > But as for this intertwining of Christian iconography and cities into your views on Isis, again, this is a fallacy. You're merging two completely different religious belief systems and trying to create a connection between them. There may be some mild connections, like vague inspiration for Mary taken from Isis, but that's the extent of the connections. Egyptian gods existed LONG, LONG before the Abrahamic religions branched off from Zoroastrianism, so any connections you find would be reversed - Christianity would have instead mimicked the pre-existing Egyptian beliefs and entities. They are the same, just different names.
This is a lot to digest, and you're blurring a lot of mythologies together. Do you have a source or picture of an 8 sided pyramid in Egypt? I've never seen one, so I'd love to know what you're talking about. Nammu is Sumerian, and Tiamat is Babylonian. By the very nature of being from different cultures, you can't simply say Isis is Nammu is Tiamat is Venus is Mary is Eostre is Frigg, etc. They may have been derived from a similar concept, or even have had some LONG ancient origin goddess that's lost to time, but to assure me that they're the same deity is wrong because each culture has it's own way of characterizing these gods. Maybe in a Baha'i belief system, they are, but in terms of how other people understand cultures and pantheons of gods in the world, they are not. And it's not a known fact that Isis and Venus are the same. The Mayans didn't know who the Greek/Roman goddess Venus was. The certainly wouldn't have known who Isis was, as they weren't even aware Egypt existed. They wouldn't have automatically assumed that the star in the sky was a female goddess either, as it was just a star in the sky. It could have been a male god, an animal god, or anything at all. Queen doesn't derive from "gene." I told you this. It's more likely that "gene" derives from "gune," due to mothers being the carriers of children and the parental traits passed to children that were eventually discovered to be DNA based. Even then, the concept of genetics wouldn't have existed until modern times. Innana, again, is a Sumerian goddess, and Diana is a Greco/Roman goddess - neither of them have connections to DNA or genes because those concepts didn't exist during ancient times. Saying that Diana is immediately connected to genetics because the letters D, N, and A are in her name is just not right at all. Your beliefs as they translate to ancient culture and individual gods like Isis are very niche, and you're applying far too many modern concepts like genetics and the names of celestial bodies in order to create all these assumptions and connections.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=i7lbRoy8,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T15:24:40.034+0000) > > This is true, but part of the appeal of that is the unmasked part that makes her stand out from the base skin. They could just rename Unmasked Kayle into something else like how Human Ryze was renamed to Young Ryze.
This is true, but I believe it will still follow the pattern of being Kayle without a helmet on, whatever they decide to name it. It could be Kayle as a Queen of Shurima in regal attire (if we go under the assumption that she's the golden queen in Varus' lore), or it could be a different version of Kayle in battle scarred armor or something like that. I believe they'd be more inclined to push Aetherwing Kayle in a different direction to differentiate it from Unmasked, since they have a bit more creative freedom with that concept.
: Who do i main to be a one trick player? (One trick responses encouraged and welcomed!)
How do we tell you what you won't get bored with? Isn't that a personal opinion on your end?
: > [{quoted}](name=Arammus,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=i7lbRoy8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-20T12:49:09.471+0000) > > isis... quite a beautiful name now destroyed thanks to terrorists. I <3 her. (Queen) Isis is said to be the mother of all the gods, her planetary form is "Venus". The word "queen" derives from "gene", so "Queen Isis" literally translates to "Genesis". The ancient pyramid of Egypt has 8 sides, and Genesis 1:1 has 8 words. Jerusalem has an area of 4-squared, which is 4 x 4 = 16 (8+8). The precession of the equinoxes takes 25920 years to cycle, which is based on a 64-tetrahedron grid (8x8), we have 64 codons in our DNA. (Queen) Isis is the mother goddess of life, creation, magic, light and everything a true god should embody for eternity. It's worth noting that people say god is love and light, and Venus is the brightest planet of the sky as well as the planet of "Love". Also, I noticed that "Venus" is suspiciously close to "Jesus", and the ancient ancestors of our time called "Venus" (Queen) Isis.
That's a very colorful opinion you've created. Isis isn't the mother of all gods. She mothered many gods, but many more gods existed before her. The word "queen" actually derives from the Old English word "cwene" or "woman," which has shared roots with an older, Indo-European word found in Greece, "gune," also "woman." Also, I'm not terribly certain how you think a pyramid, which is 4 triangles and a square bottom, have 8 sides. What you refer to in regards to what you think Isis embodies is the period in late Egyptian history and during the Roman times when Isis basically became an amalgam of all these other Egyptian gods. While you're technically correct, during this time, the Egyptian pantheon was eroding due to Christianity, and much of the beliefs were being condensed, so this Isis wouldn't have been a "true" version of herself. Isis does have connections to motherhood, but in the actual pantheon before Christianity eroded it, this was Hathor's role, as she was the goddess of motherhood and fertility. Atum, Isis' great grandfather, was the god who created everything, as he even created himself from the infinite void, and soon after, his children. The god of light was a title that belonged to Isis' son, Horus. About the only thing you listed that she is associated with in the older myths where she's an individual god is her association with magic. Her main role in the pantheon was a patron of magic, and as well as acting as a guide for those who had died. She's most famous for the resurrection of her husband, Osiris, and her cunning in outsmarting Set. She's also associated with the sky, like her mother, Nut, though she has stronger connections to rain and rainfall. She was actually a fairly minor god until she was tied heavily towards being a mother of all pharaohs by later rulers. As for her association with the planetary body we know as Venus, that could be true. But it wouldn't have been called Venus in Egyptian times, as that is a Greek deity name that we've adopted for the planet, so equating her to Aphrodite/Venus is a fallacy. But as for this intertwining of Christian iconography and cities into your views on Isis, again, this is a fallacy. You're merging two completely different religious belief systems and trying to create a connection between them. There may be some mild connections, like vague inspiration for Mary taken from Isis, but that's the extent of the connections. Egyptian gods existed LONG, LONG before the Abrahamic religions branched off from Zoroastrianism, so any connections you find would be reversed - Christianity would have instead mimicked the pre-existing Egyptian beliefs and entities.
: Aether Wing Kayle also has no helmet~
This is true, but part of the appeal of that is the unmasked part that makes her stand out from the base skin.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BLbAEYwu,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-20T13:36:54.910+0000) > > Really? I don&#x27;t know what the hell live Aatrox does, aside from leap in the air and dive, so to say people can &quot;VERY clearly&quot; tell when he&#x27;s ulting in live is wrong. I don&#x27;t know what his ult does, I don&#x27;t know what impact it has in a fight, and I certainly don&#x27;t know when he&#x27;s activated it. > > Let&#x27;s compare to champions like Vel&#x27;Koz or Swain. I KNOW absolutely when these two champions are ulting, and even if I wasn&#x27;t familiar with their kits, seeing Vel&#x27;Koz assume a position and start to spew lasers and seeing Swain fly into the air on demon bird wings is enough notice to stay the fuck away from them. They have clear, obvious ultimate stances they take that immediately tell you shit is about to go down. Live Aatrox does not. Aatrox is such a mess right now, and his kit is so built upon just auto-attacking people that there&#x27;s absolutely no clarity as to what he&#x27;s doing unless you&#x27;ve killed him and triggered his bloodwell or he&#x27;s fly-diving away from you. ok whatever pretend stupidity
A red, orange, and black champion glowing a little more orange and having a slightly longer sword doesn't constitute as clarity. You can _easily_ miss this in team fights, so unless you're actively paying attention to just Aatrox, it's not clear at all. Even still, most of Aatrox's power states are defined by slight color variations and minor particle effects. Nothing about him is overtly clear to anyone but someone who's an Aatrox player.
: Isn't there an unmasked kayle skin or am I just trippn
There is, but for there to be an _unmasked_ Kayle, the classic skin has to have full face coverage.
: Am I the only person who feels like something about his body just looks **really** anatomically incorrect? Its like his legs and head aren't fully attached to his torso or something, they remind me of the segmented body parts on old action figures. I don't think Riot realizes just how odd it looks in the photos when he's standing still.
The head and upper torso look fine. It's that unnatural Attack on Titan Ken doll crotch that looks bizarre. His legs don't look like they're attached at the bottom of his torso, and are instead attached on the sides, giving him what appears to be massive thigh gap.
nosnnirc (EUW)
: Can somebody give me a list of drain tanks in the game?
At current it's Vladimir. He's the only true drain tank. Other than that, it's proven to be such an unhealthy play mechanic that they've been hard pressed to make more.
: I dont buy the "ult clarity" excuse for not giving aatrox his banner wings
Really? I don't know what the hell live Aatrox does, aside from leap in the air and dive, so to say people can "VERY clearly" tell when he's ulting in live is wrong. I don't know what his ult does, I don't know what impact it has in a fight, and I certainly don't know when he's activated it. Let's compare to champions like Vel'Koz or Swain. I KNOW absolutely when these two champions are ulting, and even if I wasn't familiar with their kits, seeing Vel'Koz assume a position and start to spew lasers and seeing Swain fly into the air on demon bird wings is enough notice to stay the fuck away from them. They have clear, obvious ultimate stances they take that immediately tell you shit is about to go down. Live Aatrox does not. Aatrox is such a mess right now, and his kit is so built upon just auto-attacking people that there's absolutely no clarity as to what he's doing unless you've killed him and triggered his bloodwell or he's fly-diving away from you.
: > [{quoted}](name=RoberttheRobber,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ZKicRXLv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-06-20T02:27:46.381+0000) > > Wait... {{champion:28}} doesn&#x27;t have bones? Evelynn is a shadow monster.
> [{quoted}](name=Cute Necromancer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ZKicRXLv,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-06-20T02:54:07.638+0000) > > Evelynn is a shadow monster. Evelynn is a former demon wisp that took a physical form once she became fed during the Rune Wars. You can't purport to know if she doesn't have bones, because she was clearly replicating her prey - which have bones inside them.
: If kayle would be an Ascended, She might look like this
Isis won't work though - Remember, one of Kayle's pointed features was that she's the Samus Aran of League. She's always in full armor, which means she'll have a helmet covering her face. How they portray this helmet is unknown, but regardless of that, she will still need to be fully armored to be the Kayle we know and love.
: What's the dance issue?
Have you seen it? It's the exact same dance that his previous model had. Which worked with the old sword because it was segmented, and when it compressed, it looked fine. But this new one, the sword is one solid piece, so when it compresses, it looks awkward and like something out of Cuphead.
: Wow, that's such an improvement
Agreed! It even looks more in line with Varus' appearance. There's still the issue of the dance though.
: ***
I don't consider them failures. I consider their "VGUs" and "VUs" as failures because they are half baked and don't deliver a fully realized visual update that's remarkably important when you're trying to make a champion feel new and up to par with current champions. Compare Miss Fortune animations to Gangplanks. Both of them received "VGUs" in the same event. Gangplanks is SIGNIFICANTLY more involved, and not only did his animations change entirely to go along with his new model and updated kit, his voice over changed as well. They were BOTH updated as part of the previous Bilgewater event, and BOTH classified as VGUs. Gangplank is what we would consider a minor VGU like Tristana's, where most of the kit is preserved, with mild changes (the barrels), but he got a full package of visuals. This VGU released simultaneously with Miss Fortune's "VGU," yet you can see how half-assed her "VGU" was when you notice that absolutely nothing changed about her except for her exterior. She has the same VO, she has the same clunky animations, and it makes her look feel like nothing has changed at all about her. It's insulting and disappointing that Riot would even consider what they did to Miss Fortune a VGU when you had an actual VGU released along with it, as well as fully realized VGUs released before and after it. Fiora is in the exact same boat. She's got the same problems with old, outdated animations, and missing animations to boot. She's not a VGU at all. She got a gameplay update and a model update, but none of the involved work that qualifies as a VGU.
: Agreed. If you were making the argument for someone, it should be for Urgot. He is the only character who has a similar ult in which an indicator matters based off the target's HP. (and I don't play Urgot, so I'm not sure if he has one already)
: Now that ad champs got conqueror what will tanks and ap get ?
AP will get a new keystone in sorcery that makes it so that if you kill a champion with a spell or ability, you get 60% decaying movement speed for 3 seconds.
: He's literally viable in LCS right now just because BoRK was reduced by 200 gold.
Is he viable, or overtuned though? His main premise is "I have more stats than you have," and coupled with a cheaper BoRK, that means he can hit his high point faster than the enemy and simply out sustain them to the point of making him impossible to duel. I don't think he's actually viable, as it's not any kind of skill expression that's making him powerful - it's a matter of him hitting his spike faster than usual and outdueling enemies who haven't hit their spikes yet. It all boils down to "Can Aatrox buy BoRK faster than the enemy can complete their first item?"
QMighty (NA)
: Hopefully this new minor VGU lands well and they get the chance to go back and finish these guys, since Faux said that this is meant to "test the viability of minor VGU's". Also, Reav3 mentioned in that Aatrox post that they'd be willing to go back and change things about past updates like with his wings, so there's hope. My personal most wanted is Kass, though I'd love to see him get some proper kit work at the same time.
I have hope too. For Kass though, since his work was just some model stuff, I think they have a better opportunity to give him a full VGU. The entire Darth Vader gimmick he has has worn out a bit, so they could do something that makes him believably Shuriman now, and less like an escapee from a Zaun facility.
: Future Versus Event - Rakan & Xayah
I feel like Order vs Chaos shouldn't be done again. It's looking like the VS events pit two against each other, and have stark opposites, but I feel like there are other opposite elements that they can explore outside of Order/Chaos.
QMighty (NA)
: They got a bit more than just texture updates. They were Model/Texture updates (MTU) and in the case of Rene and Cass, new voice lines too.
They were not model updates. No part of their models actually changed. This is evident if you watch Cassiopeia die. When she turns to stone and falls over, her textures revert back to her old textures. They've merely made it look different by applying transparencies over parts of the texture to "remove" parts of the model that were present in the old textures. Basically, it's like putting glass walls on a cube to "remove" the sides when you look at it. As for their voice overs, that's audio work, not visual work.
: I think its fair to say Fiora's rework landed really well in the end even though for a week every virgin was crying about how she didn't look exactly like every other standard girl anymore. I think it would be cool if they went back and 'finished' fiora and shen though by adding new VOs. I didn't realize there was anyone who minded MF's visual update. It basically kept her exact same look.
It's not a matter of Fiora or MF's looks. It's a matter of how they move and speak. They both look great, as do the others on the list. There was a lot of effort put into remaking their exterior models. However, their model appearance doesn't mean anything if their animations and vocals aren't updated to make them _feel_ like updated champions. Fiora and Miss Fortune still move and animate like they did on the day they launched. Neither has a proper recall. Neither has a homeguard. Both have dances that have a start point and an end point. The work done on them was utterly half-assed because Riot didn't update their animations, making them still feel old. It's like putting a new mattress on a broken bed frame. Your bed will still be shit and your mattress will end up on the floor because no amount of top level work will fix the underlying problems that your bed has.
: I want to say Irelia's ultimate is a projectile until it hits an enemy champion. After which it becomes damaging terrain. Kind of like J4's ultimate. Malphite's and Sion's ultimate is not a projectile but a champion that's dashing. However they unstoppable while they're doing it so grounding abilities like Veigar's cage, Cass' Miasma, Singed Adhesive will not affect them until after they finish their ability.
What they're trying to point out is that Sion and Malphite are champions. However, Wolf, as part of Kindred, qualifies as a projectile in one ability while not qualifying as a projectile in another ability - and yet, Wolf is supposed to be half of the champion. Kindred is Wolf and Lamb, not just Lamb. That's the OP's complaint here. Also, Veigar's cage does not ground. It stuns. Grounded prevent you from dashing or blinking when you're affected by it.
: It's either {{champion:81}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:110}} . I know for a fact it is one of the three because: 1) Both Miss Fortune and Varus just got updated lore and their kits don't really match it. 2) Riot has proven wit a track record that they will work on popular champions before ones that really need it. I have a sneaky feeling it is Ezreal because a lot of Developers have said he needs a new W and could benefit from a VU more than a VGU. My guess is probably Ezreal because Riot can care less about the champions that really need it as opposed to the ones that are popular. Ezreal is the contender.
Miss Fortune got her model updated like in 2016. She also got her kit updated then as well. It qualified this as a VGU, despite not having updated animations (or recalls) or a new VO, like full VGUs and older VUs (like Twitch and Karthus) got.
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: {{champion:38}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:37}} deserve special mention for poorly made VUs too. People *want* VGU level VU, they enjoy those.
Renekton, Cassiopeia, and Sona haven't gotten actual visual work. They got texture updates that polished them up, but none of the actual meat and potatoes of their model got touched (unless you count Cass' tail physics). I'm not sure on Kassadin, I've never played him before or after. Textures use the existing model, but change the colors. A chroma is basically a texture change. That's the extent of what 3 of the 4 you listed got.
Maxxston (NA)
: Riot has done other VUs in the past (with or without minor accompanying GUs at the same time). Based off of the [champion update history](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule) and selectively choosing the ones marked "visual update" that I _think_ had minor gameplay updates at the same time, we get: * Alistar (2015) * Maokai (2015) * Karthus (2014) * Twitch (2014) * Heimerdinger (2014) * Garen (2013) * assorted others that I was less certain about. Do you think that these cases were significantly different than what you're doing now (specifically because those changes didn't have as much lore updates)? Or that the lessons have otherwise not carried over? I think it's pretty telling that there hasn't been a primarily-visual update in over 3 years, so I'm curious as to what thinking has changed at Riot between now and then.
Alistar and Maokai got their models updated. And that's it. Riot basically put a fresh coat of paint on a rusty, lemon of a car. Compare them to Kathus, Twitch, and Heimerdinger. These three not only got model updates, they got full animation package updates, full vocal updates, and recall animations and homeguard animations. Alistar and Maokai got NONE of this. Maokai _did_ get a VO update at a later date, but that was only because the actor who did his was already doing someone else (I can't recall if it was Galio, Urgot, or Swain). So if they didn't have a voice actor in already doing other work, Maokai wouldn't have gotten a new voice. So Riot hasn't done "visual updates" since 2015 because of the utter crap work they did on Alistar and Maokai (and others, as I've posted further up in response to Fauxschizzle) that was so poorly received.
: > [{quoted}](name=EROTIC RAID BOSS,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Zlwreqeo,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-18T21:50:02.197+0000) > > So if I understand right, this update is heavy on lore/art but light on gameplay changes? I&#x27;m pretty interested to see what exactly it is, given this is a first and there&#x27;s a lot of champions I can think of that could use nicer art/vo etc. Aye. It's a long list. One of the reasons we're doing it is to test the viability of minor VGUs. How much will it resonate with players en masse, etc. We're all hoping it does. :)
It will resonate so long as it's not a repeat of the fiasco of these champs: {{champion:114}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:57}} These champs were ALL given their "visual updates" and "visual and gameplay updates between the larger VGUs like Sion, Poppy, Gangplank, Taric, and after full, real visual updates like Karthus, Sivir, and Heimerdinger. Yet every single one of these champions fell HARD. This isn't directed at you, Fauxschizzle, but I'm hoping you can let the relevant people understand the frustration I'm about to vent. 1. You kept the old rigging and animations for all of them. Sure, you added minor animations like a new attack animation for Shen, but on the whole, all of these champs were left saddled with their old, outdated animations that makes their shiny new model feel ancient. None of them got recalls or homeguard animations, which are _expected_ in any visual or VGU you guys make. VGUs and VUs are supposed to put these champions on par with new releases. Leaving their old animations and not removing bad ones/giving them enough new ones to make them feel new and fresh was a huge problem for these champs. New Aatrox appears to dodge this bullet to an extent, since he's got plenty of new animations to make him feel completely new, and the old ones fit seamlessly. But for someone like Miss Fortune and Alistar, who don't even have looping dance animations that don't have defined start/stop points, you guys dropped the ball. 2. None of these champions, barring Maokai, got new voice overs. Alistar, as I recently read, has a whopping 7 lines. No champion who's even remotely new has single digits of voice lines anymore. Plus, to keep these champions feeling fresh and on par with new releases, new voice overs help them feel like they're part of the world, instead of relics from the past. You've given them ALL kit updates, on par with the minor kit updates like Tristana got in her minor VGU. This means these champions all have had **new models** and **gameplay updates**, which are two of the major components of a full VGU, no matter how major or minor. You guys at Riot are _so close_ to having completed projects here, yet you've systematically ignored completing these champions' updates for going on years now. Giving them all new voice overs, along with giving them all new animations and rigging will seal the deal and make them feel new and complete. It's honestly insulting to see Miss Fortune, after a purported "VGU," have her guns clip each other as she dances, as well as to see Fiora not have a recall at all, considering the huge deal that was made about her "VGU." These champions need to be completed. There's not much of an excuse for this. They were all started AFTER pure VUs like Heimerdinger and Sivir, full VGUs like Sion, Poppy, and Tristana, and followed by equally good VGUs. These 6 are from an ugly period in time for Riot, and considering how close they are to actually feeling like VGU'd champions, it's highly disappointing that you guys adamantly refuse to go back and fix it. I've seen it numerous times now - you all apologize, say you made mistakes, and you'll do better in the future on these champions - yet for some reason, you _don't fix the problems._ For some reason, you treated these champions like they were marble statues you carved that you'd forgotten to put in the sitting dog pose instead of sun salutations, like they are locked away, never to be touched again. But you can fix the problems, and you've always been able to, so please do it. It's horrible to have to explain to someone that yes, Miss Fortune did get her visuals updated, and to prove to someone that Alistar looks different than when he was first launched. When your animations and vocals are _that terrible despite the new models,_ there's a huge problem, and your modeler's work is basically being ignored or discounted due to the utter poor quality of the rest of the champion they modeled. So please fix them. They're so close to being complete VGUs, they just need you guys to cross the finish line with them. Don't let them feel older and older as the years go by. Edit: Dammitall, I always forget {{champion:38}} is in this same boat, though his kit didn't get updated.
: he wasn't problematic after his mini rework you're treating riot's opinion like they're an almighty god
He wasn't very viable either. He was just Band-Aid fixed. He was usable, and he didn't break the game as hard, but he wasn't in a good place.
: mini rework already fixed that
Clearly it did not if he was still problematic enough to merit a full GU.
GreenLore (EUW)
: They said they want to revisit Noxus later this year,so if you are lucky we might get a Talon lore update then(and I'm sure that Talons lore will focus the most on his disappearance since kata is now on bad terms with her father) https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/vJoMWjvO-new-noxus-lore-lads-get-hyped?comment=00090001
I would hope that Talon's lore update drags Cassiopeia's lore with it. All she has is a blurb about her and her color story. I would like to see where they go with her, because I think she's a PERFECT candidate for the Black Rose on many levels. First and foremost, LeBlanc has a habit of accepting monsters and manipulators into their ranks - Elise and Vlad come to mind - so Cassiopeia fits that bill to the tee. Secondly, Cassiopeia is a daughter of Du Coteau, the man who was controlled by LeBlanc and expelled by Swain, which would instantly make her an enemy of the leading forces of Noxus, which falls in line with LeBlanc's ambitions. I think there's a good direction they can go with Cassiopeia, because ironically LeBlanc could pull her into the folds and manipulate her with her desires - with risk though, because unlike Elise, Cassiopeia's power isn't controlled by LeBlanc's web of deceit, and she would need to be careful that Cassiopeia doesn't go ballistic.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AefTfNFJ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-19T12:15:16.209+0000) > > Sources for this absolute claim? Common Sense.
Common sense would imply that Morgana is being tailored to be the female Darkin. Aatrox condemns her actions with disgust and revulsion. Urgot and Swain trigger their _Darkin Only_ lines for Morgana, who is currently not a Darkin. So where in the common sense you're referring to is there evidence that doesn't imply she's being tailored to the female Darkin?
xSpawnx (NA)
: Y u no update stormraizer?
Those are hotfixes, which means they're done on the fly. They change base stats in emergency situations, so that means they only tinker with the programming associated with what they're fixing. A tooltip is low priority, so they don't change them when they hotfix things. They'll update the tooltips in the next patch.
Bern (NA)
: Zeal items were cost efficient but offered stats that were useless without accompanying stat-sticks. Now they're pretty much useless unless you build the worst stat-stick in the game (IE) and they're cost-inefficient on top.
Critical Strike increases the damage you deal from your basic attacks based on a chance (in theory.) Since no one in the game EVER starts with 0 AD, Critical Strike will ALWAYS be increasing your damage. Sure, building AD items increases that damage, but Critical Strike is never useless because there is always damage for it to increase.
: I hope Aatrox's animations are a WIP...
Riot, another daily reminder that Aatrox's old dance being applied to his new model looks awful. Like Fiora, Miss Fortune, Maokai, Shen, Alistar, and Singed before him, _it looks awful to reuse old animations on new models._ New models need new animations if they are to look new and fresh. Cannibalizing old animations is awkward and ages the new model unnecessarily.
Sindresn (EUW)
: Upvote if lol should remove blue essence and give you all champions for free
Call me crazy, but I like earning things like Blue Essence and buying champions. It gives me purpose to play the game, and makes you feel accomplished. I like games that have goals and rewards, as it's a lot more engaging than "win the match. start a new match. win the match. start a new match."
: > [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-17T06:08:02.416+0000) > > So here&#x27;s the problem: > > The most recent big reworks (Irelia, Swain, Galio) all were done largely from a mismatch in theme and execution. Swain was supposed to be a master tactician, instead he just rode into the middle of a fight and sat there, Irelia was a telekinetic blade wielder who barely used the power, etc. > > Aatrox is largely a gameplay update (in fact, that&#x27;s all it was really going to be at first, but they realized it needed to be a full visual update as well) > > The core mechanic of &quot;Auto attack diver who sustains through everything from his innate kit&quot; was not something that was going to work out for balance (as you can see by the Warwick rework, which moved most of his healing to only when he was low health, eliminating the drain tank paradigm). > > So I understand that Aatrox players may be upset because his playstyle was so fundamentally changed, but I&#x27;m sorry to tell you that that is unlikely to change, as that was the fundamental issue they needed to fix: his old play pattern. Issue here is, for many of us that old playstyle was what we found attractive. First they gut Xin’s passive to unnoticeable levels and then they remove Aatrox - we no longer have any blade wiedlding champion that works on a self stacking 3 hit passive. The closest you get is Udyr, but none of his spells pack the “Oomph” of Xin’s old 3rd W or either of Aatrox’s Ws. Now why those passives were considered unhealthy gameplay while Yi, Tryndamere and Yasuo exist in the game is beyond me...
I'm sorry, are you trying to argue that Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Yasuo are somehow _NOT_ considered unhealthy gameplay patterns? The Boards are currently in utter chaos and rage mode because of the bullshit that is Master Yi, and Yasuo has been complained about for literally years. They've even discussed and are throwing around the idea of reworking Yasuo, which was further catalyzed by the new Infinity Edge. Tryndamere has ALSO been a huge bone of contention for a while now, since his kit is also famously bad for being feast or famine. Tryndamere basically exists to do nothing but split push, press R when enemies attack him, and then run away with his tail between his legs when it ends. NONE of these champions you've listed are in good spots right now. Yi is being heralded as one of the horsemen of the apocalypse. Yasuo is everyone's favorite punching bag. Tryndamere has been left in the gutters for many years, and only surfaces in low level play because he can dominate there if left unchecked. They're all bad, and every one of them is considered unhealthy to some extent. We'll even throw in Volibear, Jax, and Olaf into that mix as well, because they're also in desperate need of help to fix their auto-based feast/famine playstyles too.
: Aatrox was said to be reworked because Riot kept him historically weak. His passive rework in season 6/7 fixed Aatrox and he became a viable champion, which you see right now. Aatrox players expected a Warwick level rework, not a new champion called Riven2.
A Warwick level rework would have worked if he wasn't one of the worst instances of feast or famine.
: It hurts every time {{champion:14}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:83}}{{champion:266}} Next they will hit the last bits of my heart {{champion:24}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}}
Trundle was VGU'd in 2013. He's recent enough that they won't touch him again except for kit tweaks. As for Jax and Volibear though - they're turds. They need VGUs and kit overhauls so they're not so generic.
: Try to laugh from the death and replacement of your main champion.
You mean the bland "I'm the Where's Waldo of War Gods" who's background amounted to retellings of how angry he made people who were losing wars? The one who was so underdeveloped on his launch that they phoned in his story and his VO to be something so utterly generic that it could "fit" in the game without actually impacting the lore? The same Aatrox who's been the most modern stat check champion in the game, who's unkillable when he was allowed to be good, and may as well have AFK'd for all the worth he gave when he was behind? That champion? I mean, I feel bad you got your hopes dashed, but Aatrox was really nothing more than roster filler up until now. He was utterly generic, his kit was binary and unhealthy, and he had an immensely small player base because he had no character or development whatsoever. Varus' new lore last year was _the first time_ Aatrox had ever been mentioned in any lore stories - and that was to tell us that Aatrox was the first goliath to fall in the Darkin Wars. All of his changes have been for the better, and have given him actual characterization and a place in the world that has him interacting with other characters. He's no longer just a vague afterthought in the lore. He's a powerful, aggressive player in the ever expanding epic involving Targon and Shurima and the struggle against the Void.
: I knew I was going to switch to maining him the second I heard his voice, it was one of my favourites up with Kled and Sol, but i never expected his gameplay to be so fun. He felt a bit awkward on release sure, but with the recent buffs, he feels much smoother to play and all around better. Its one of the best reworks in recent years IMO.
Yes, and his ultimate is probably one of the most satisfying ultimates in the game, after the boom and the air rippling of Garen's ult.
: Does anyone even take ultimate hunter in domination ?
The problem here is two fold - the new Ultimate Hunter is COMPLETELY outclassed and duplicitous of Presence. Both require killing enemies to be completely functional, except that Presence will give you a heap more CD refund on your ult plus more mana for getting kills, and it keeps stacking on subsequent kills, AND it can function at any point during your ult's cooldown period. It also works way better with execute champions like Urgot and Pyke, because you'll refund your own ult by using it, and you'll progressively get your ult up faster in team fights by helping and killing. There's no real reason to take Ultimate Hunter over the other 3 options, like you've said, and they've basically turned the rune into a more pitiful version of Presence.
GenoXx (NA)
: I know your all for, "this is what's canon now" but that doesn't change the fact that that was still just a sudden change in the lore. I know just as much as you, doesn't mean i'm not blind to how they're treating their narrative.
How many other lores actually involved Aatrox though? I can't think of any of them. Sure, they changed him to fit the new Darkin narrative and give him characterization, and sure, it was a big change to his old lore. However, as far as I could see in terms of this impact on the "big portion of Runterra's history", the only lore that placed him in history's wars was his own lore. It's not like he was a Where's Waldo in the lore, popping up mysteriously in the background of other character's stories every time a war is mentioned. He wasn't really talked about outside of his own lore - except in Varus' new lore, where he mentions that Aatrox was the first Darkin to fall in battle, and that was the beginning of the new narrative, not preserving his old lore.
GenoXx (NA)
: Ok, and the part where he joins wars to inspire people?
What part of Aatrox's old lore was actually compelling? It had all the appeal of watching a PBS documentary on how metal has been used in every war since they learned how to forge it. His old lore was insubstantial, told from a 3rd party perspective, and gave us _nothing at all_ on who Aatrox was, his motives, or his personality. He was bland and completely phoned in in terms of development. They made him present in every war -OooOoOOooOh. How exciting. He ate mystery and shat riddles. He was deliberately left in a fuzzy state because they hadn't actually defined what a Darkin was at his time of release, and his lore was just uninspired. Now that we know what Darkin are, and what their motivations are, Aatrox can be an actual developed character now, instead of a vague war demon. He can be given substance and a real personality, and we can understand what drives him and what his goals are. Overall, he's a much richer character now with the new narrative they are building around him, and it makes him so much more interesting than some eerie winged monster that made you go into a blood fury.
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Oleandervine

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