Awf Meta (NA)
: > It is defined as a learning system by the Rioters who designed and coded it Riot and I have different definitions is all. > based on the fact that it learns from the reports submitted by players in each distinct region what they find to be unacceptable, and begins to punish accordingly. In my opinion, that is not true learning. That is just following orders. The IFS needs to react independent of reports before I would consider it a learning system. Example for clarity: Kids taking a test in school. One kid gets to use the textbook while taking the test. That kid is just copying the textbook. I would not say the kid is actually learning. > For example, the phrase "kys" was not always an instantly bannable phrase. It only became so harshly punished in response to the overwhelmingly negative response from players reporting its use. Do you have a source? I'm pretty sure the "zero tolerance" phrases are hand picked by Riot. > It also encompasses many other functions, including trolling and intentional feeding, neither of which can be detected with a chat filter. Source? Splitting hairs but I thought IFS was mainly focused on chat and Riot used other systems (leaverbuster) for the game play. Whether the systems are effective at catching trolls and feeders is another topic. > Feel free to look through Riot Tantram's posts in this section of the Boards. He wrote the programming for the IFS and discusses how it works on a pretty regular basis. Do some digging for Riot Lyte. There are some IFS videos around, it takes more digging than I want to do at the moment. So, I found 1 video. Hopefully, it helps you find others. https://spark-summit.org/2017/events/combating-abusive-language-in-chat-with-apache-spark/
[Riot Tantram IFS detection modules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/ssrwyraZ-i-am-unbanned?comment=0003000100000000) [Riot Tantram IFS machine learning, not keyword based system](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/MIBGEN1J-the-issue-with-the-behaviour-system-is-that-it-is-too-black-and-white?comment=0005) [Lyte Intentional Feeding added to IFS](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/yFLxpAcV-qa-about-player-behavior-systems-chat-log-reviews-and-feedback) [IFS FAQs confirming FeederBuster added to IFS](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286) LeaverBuster is not part of the IFS, but the other gameplay offenses are handled through it. When the IFS first launched, it only dealt with chat toxicity, but within a few months, after players were used to it, inting was added.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > But as a general rule, if a player is getting in an argument with another teammate that lasts more than a few lines, and degrades into any form of personalized insults, even if their position in the argument is correct, they are breaking the rules of the game. That is too lenient compared to the current system. In the current system, people aren't allowed to argue AT ALL. While people aren't getting punished for just arguing, the offense stays on record. Possibly, leading to too many unknown minor offenses stacking up. > And at that time, if someone happens to say "just mute them and report them after" it should be a pretty clear warning to that player that they are doing something that they are going to end up being reviewed for. Notice the accuser doesn't make the rules. The report gets reviewed by Riot. The ire of your team does not influence Riots rules. Ire is a good warning for account review. Terrible warning for account status. > The IFS was designed and implemented by Riot, but it's a learning system. I've seen videos on the subject. Learning system is pretty generous in my opinion. IFS is a chat filter. If I were to make my own custom chat filter, it would be "learning" which words to filter. If the IFS were able to automatically and accurately "learn" without player reports, that would be some schweet AI.
The IFS is not simply a "chat filter." Whoever told you that, or said so in a video, was incorrect. It is defined as a learning system by the Rioters who designed and coded it, based on the fact that it learns from the reports submitted by players in each distinct region what they find to be unacceptable, and begins to punish accordingly. For example, the phrase "kys" was not always an instantly bannable phrase. It only became so harshly punished in response to the overwhelmingly negative response from players reporting its use. For another example, the word "c - unt" was not a censored or bannable word a few years ago. It was, and still is, considered popular slang in certain parts of Europe, but because of player response, it is now considered a form of sexist hate speech on the NA server. These are things that the IFS has learned in response to submitted player reports. The IFS is not just some keyword detector that goes through a giant list of all the possible nasty things a person can say to another. It contains many modules, only one of which is a dedicated keyword filter for things like hate speech, death threats, etc. It also encompasses many other functions, including trolling and intentional feeding, neither of which can be detected with a chat filter. Feel free to look through Riot Tantram's posts in this section of the Boards. He wrote the programming for the IFS and discusses how it works on a pretty regular basis.
Yässüø (EUNE)
: I just don't find "report botlane for flaming" or "yeah four of you are flaming so four of you are doing wrong" as something that's toxic.
If you only say it once, it's not. It's just stating a fact, or asking for a favor from the enemy team. But when you say it all game long, or for even half of the game it becomes toxic. I know that you didn't know about the report system before, but now you know that it only takes one report to trigger a review. Anytime someone asks for reports multiple times, it's like listening to a small, overweight child who is making a face with their thumbs in their ears and their fingers flapping like moose antlers. In between taunts they stick their tongue out and wiggle around in a tiny dance that only makes sense to them. And then, just when you think it can't get any weirder, it opens it's mouth and blurts out "I'm gooooonna repooooooort you!" And it says it again, and again, in a sing-song voice that somehow manages to capture nasal and nails on a chalkboard. There really is no difference in people who threaten others with reports and kindergarten bullies.
: The Lux game I can understand looks bad, but that's largely because yes, he's a Katarina one-trick. He barely knows how to play any other champion, and I mean that quite literally. Because of a mutual friend of ours, he decided to try increasing his champion versatility by picking up a different midlaner, that being Lux. Put someone who one-tricks a high mobility, close-range burst damage assassin known for her dizzying plays and escapes on a completely immobile, entirely skill-shot reliant champion that also happens to be one of the squishiest and most fragile in the game. As you can see from his match history, it's gone about as well as you can expect. Nonetheless, this whole occurrence in addition to the mentality of people like Korppi is **very** troubling, and I'd say outright damaging to the game. Personal pressure and tilt is bad enough if you're on a losing streak, struggling because of balance changes, or trying something different. But then a situation like this happens where an innocent- if stubborn and somewhat lackluster- player gets punished simply because he didn't meet the standards of a group of random people, who decided to report him. And this whole thing proves **they can get away with that**. They can get people in trouble, even banned, if said person played badly enough. That kind of situation perpetuates toxicity and elitism, and is seriously not good for this game, its community, or its reputation. What's more, from the sounds of things it seems that Riot is looking at the statistics only, and isn't giving the **player** proper consideration. He's already tried repealing the ban multiple times (though it's the ban overall, rather than just the permaban), but he's been utterly roadblocked. Honestly I'd really like to have a redposter look at this thread and give commentary on it- not for the sake of going over your head, because you've been nothing but helpful and constructive and I'm honestly thankful you've heard me out on all of this so diligently. But because Riot staff are the ones who handle support tickets and issue out these bans, and I really want one of them to give insight as to how this whole situation happened in the first place, and how it could possibly be justified.
I can certainly understand how that would be quite a change to try and get used to. They are so very different that it may have led to him being caught out of position, simply because he was so used to being able to have an escape/method of survival. I would also agree with you regarding the mentality of players like Korppi. It seems highly unfair to me, and not in accordance with the rules. > None of us like playing matches which could easily be won except for that one player who got a couple of deaths, tilted and then proceeded to take any possible fight even if its a 1v4 suicide dive thinking that all they need is a kill any kill to turn this game around. This especially. While it may be true that we do not want to play with someone who continues throwing themselves into the enemy team in the hopes of eking out a meager return kill and possibly getting themselves back in the game, that does not make it bannable. It just means that the particular player needs to learn how to chill out, and let themselves be carried by the people on their team who are doing well. And I really would like to see a Red opinion on this one as well. I would love to get Tantram's opinion of everything, but I'm not sure that he saw the thread. I really think he should try to contact Support again, when he's in a calmer frame of mind, and can address them very politely. I think there is a Support discord lurking around somewhere, but I'm not sure where. I'm looking to see if I can find it. If I can, I'll reply to you again with that information, as it would let him speak in a live-chat format with someone who works in Help and Support. I really cannot stress enough though that he has to be calm and polite when talking to them, because if he is rude or accusatory, they aren't really going to want to go out of their way to help him. I would also beg him to consider working the 14 day suspension angle. As he didn't intentionally feed in those matches, he's perfectly entitled to request again that they please consider removing his permaban. If they say no, he can show them maturity and acceptance of his responsibility with something like the following: _ If that is the case, and the system has judged me to have been intentionally feeding, I will accept a fair and rightful punishment for it. Gameplay based offenses carry a 14 day suspension for the first offense, after which the player is give the chance to reform from their trolling, griefing, intentionally feeding. Typically, the IFS issues that punishment, and a player is then allowed to return to gameplay, to demonstrate whether they have reformed, or are continuing on their present course. In my situation, I was given a 14 day suspension after exiting a match, and then immediately given a permanent suspension; at the same time! To my knowledge, this should not happen this way, and while I was not intentionally feeding kills to the enemy team, this doesn't give me the chance to try and change my play style so that I don't give so many kills to the enemy team. Please, I ask only for the chance to demonstrate reform through the system. If you cannot remove the punishment entirely, would it be possible to remove the permaban, while retaining the 14 day suspension? I will willingly serve the 14 day suspension, but it does not follow your own policy to give me both suspensions at the same time without allowing me to try and change my behavior after the first. I beg of you to please allow me to demonstrate reform after serving the 14 day suspension. _ So, it might sound a bit over the top with how formal and pleading it is, but he definitely will get better results by being polite, sounding educated, and coming across as a supplicant instead of demanding. He can even copy and paste what I wrote if he wants. I think he does stand a chance of getting the permaban dropped down to a 14 day suspension, but I doubt he will ever get it dropped completely. In his case, I think his best bet is going to be asking for the 14 day.
: 65 games with a negative KDA in 20 days is not "having a few bad games." That's averaging over 3 bad games A DAY. That right there is 260 people who's games he ruined by being their team mate in less than a month. That's ONLY counting the games with a negative KDA, not the myriad of games he went even. Running my own history back over 2 months I only have like 6 games with a negative KDA, running your history back those 20 days and you have 20 games with a negative KDA. Yes, he probably should have gotten a better warning, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that this isn't a saint you're defending here, he has ruined a lot of peoples games and he should be punished for it. Dude made it to level 30 and really hadn't come to the conclusion that having more deaths than kills/assists is possibly a bad thing? You lose game after game after game because you go 0/10/2 but you still need somebody to step in and actively tell you that maybe you shouldn't be dying that much. Why does Riot need to step in a tell you you're losing games because you go 1/13/5?
Keep in mind, Riot does not punish players for being bad at the game. Only for intentionally trying to feed the enemy team kills. Anyone can have a bad match, can be learning a new champ, can be on a tilt streak, etc. But that isn't against the rules of the game. If it was, every player who is currently ranked silver or bronze would likely have to be permabanned (myself included).
Yässüø (EUNE)
: Most likely there is no chance for anyone to "work their way back into lower punishment tier" when you have at least one toxic person per game, and that's if you are lucky.
There is always a chance if you do not respond to their toxicity with toxicity of your own.
ihturito2 (EUW)
: ths it the very first form of punishment/warning/whatever i got
In that case, if you are positive that you did not say any racial or homophobic slurs in the pre- and post-game lobby, I would recommend submitting a ticket to Player Support asking them what specifically in your logs was responsible for escalating your punishment directly to a 14 day suspension. As long as you are polite, and assure them that you are simply asking so that you do not repeat the mistake in the future, they should be more than willing to assist you.
: Finished 10 game chat restriction, a few games later I get permabanned?
It really would depend on the chat logs of the match in question. There are certain things that can escalate an account directly to a 14 day suspension or a permaban, and if you would like for us to review your logs to see if they fit that, feel free to post them. It is possible that it might've been a mistake. While the rate of accidental bans by the IFS is extremely low, it can happen, and in those cases, it's best to submit a ticket to Player Support as soon as possible to get the matter resolved.
ihturito2 (EUW)
: 14 DAYS BAN BECAUSE OF 1 WORD
It isn't due to the word "bitch" as that's not a bannable word. Have you had a recent chat restriction? If so, this is just the next punishment tier and a normal progression.
ihturito2 (EUW)
: https://imgur.com/a/0LpDG screenshot for those who think i erased swearing
Well you did edit the logs that you posted. In the screenshot you typed "ihturito2: # rest of team is pussy-made" whereas in your post you edited it to "ihturito2: # rest of team is coward-made."
Yässüø (EUNE)
: That's what i don't understand. Saying "report botlane" for example, in the all chat, is going to get you banned but that same botlane continiously telling you that you're garbage/bad/noob/retard is not gonna get them jack shit. Great system.
Saying that by itself won't get you banned, unless you say it ALOT, like 10+ times. And the biggest reason that the same botlane doesn't get punished is that they aren't reported. So many of these posts are filled with rants against toxic teammates, and then one little line of "but I didn't report them because..." is thrown in. Well, that's why they don't get punished. The only way they will get punished is if you, and everyone who has to deal with them, reports them.
Yässüø (EUNE)
: 3 months i think
Most likely you did not work yourself back into a lower punishment tier. Having just come off a recent 14 day suspension, then yes, these logs would be considered permaban worthy. At that stage, ANY further rule breaking will result in a permanent suspension of the account. Consistent arguing and insulting your teammates, as well as threatening them with reports is sufficient to be permabanned. And I know that 3 months seems like a long time, but if you are being reported during that time, even if it's not enough to get you punished, it does slow your progress of moving into a lower punishment tier. It can take anywhere from 3 months to 9 months or even a year for a player who is at the 14 day suspension tier to drop down to the punishment tier where they will be punished with another 14 day suspension instead of a permaban on their next punishment.
Yässüø (EUNE)
: Can't agree with you in the requesting the report part. Asking from the enemy team to report the toxic people in your team is quite reasonable in my opinion, cause some day they might get in the same team with the guys i request a report for, and they might get the same experience as i did. So asking for a report for people that are clearly toxic is not bullying, not even in a slightest. It's a request so the community can get rid of these players and hopefully never see them again.
It's actually entirely unnecessary. Having more than one report does not increase the report weight, or have any effect at all upon the system. All reports are reviewed equally. [From Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9VrUtrJo-being-solo-and-having-a-team-report?comment=0000000000020000000000000000) > [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9VrUtrJo,comment-id=0000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T18:28:29.209+0000) > > Reports haven't lost weight since the instant feedback system was put in place. > > It's actually really simple. > > if (reports > 0) { > review(); > } That is the actual coding of the Instant Feedback System. Tantram wrote it. So, there is absolutely no reason to request extra reports. Your report causes the system to review the match. Additional reports for the match won't cause it to be reviewed again. And when players threaten other players with reporting multiple times across the duration of a match, it does become a form of harassment and bullying. Riot themselves has defined it as such, and while it is generally not going to be the sole reason for a player's punishment, it can contribute if there is additional toxicity present.
: i had never received a chat restriction on my account, i got an immediate 2 week suspension and then perma-ban. in the case of the 2 week ban i was being an a-hole i admit i deserved some sort of punishment for my actions but having chat get me a 2 week and a perma ban is ridiculous. i didnt feed intentionally or try and lose the game for my team. after my two week suspension was lifted there was no way for me to tell i was acting against TOS because 1) i didnt know i had been reported and 2) i was receiving honors from teammates for almost 3 months then boom one game off tilt and perma ban... the system i suggested would let you know immediately (or on login) if you were reported and what the reasons were, then if the case was serious enough provide a chat log or what ever evidence and move on to chat restrictions... chat should never get a player banned especially since others can mute you and you can mute them...
I believe the reasoning Riot has given for why players are not given a running meter of how toxic they are being, or whether they have been reported, is because players would use it to be toxic until right before the point where they would be punished. Then they would back off. And once their account reset, they would resume being toxic again. It is unfortunate that you were hit with a 14 day suspension and then a permaban. Riot does try to make it very clear to players when they give them the alert about the 14 day suspension that any further violations of the rules will result in a permaban, but many players do not realize that it doesn't have to be a case of extreme toxicity. It's actually easier to go from a 14 day suspension to a permaban than it is to go from a clean account to a 10 game chat restriction. And I'm not sure if you are aware of this site or not, but you actually can contact Support through [Riot Games Privacy](https://privacy.riotgames.com/en_US/) and request a detailed copy of your account history. It will include any reports that have been submitted on your account, along with chat logs to accompany them. Just sign in with your normal user ID, and click "Looking for More?"
: "Clearly and politely"..... yeah, when you suddenly get a 14-day then permanent ban despite (as far as you know) doing nothing wrong, I could see concepts like clarity and politeness kinda slipping past him in the heat of the moment. I'll link the two matches, hopefully you'll be able to find something. [2/8/2 game](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2725251959/245258311?tab=overview) [4/8/3 game](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2725226567/245258311?tab=overview) Looking at them myself though, I don't really see anything to weird regarding the placements of his deaths. As for build path, I can tell you he certainly wasn't (intentionally) sabotaging himself- he always builds Gunblade first item, no ifs ands or buts. Even when I tell him he should work on his item flexibility.
Okay, sorry it took me so long to get back to you on these, I've had some family emergencies this weekend and haven't been online much and wanted to give this undivided attention for a full consideration. Starting with the first match, the 2/8/2 match, yes, he does have only a 24% kill participation, but we have to keep in mind that he is laning against a Gold V Zed, with Zed being his most played champion in ranked. I doubt anyone on his team bothered to look that up before reporting him, nor do I think any of them would have had any better luck laning against someone that higher ranked than them. His cs is fairly good, considering how much he died, and his build is also appropriate. He actually built wisely, with getting early armor against the Zed, rather than trying to just build glass cannon. It might have been smarter to get the seeker's armguard before the gunblade instead of the ninja tabi, but that's a matter of preference, and as long as he is building armor, and at least trying to stop his dying in lane, I don't see any reason to nit-pick how he chose to go about it. The second match is pretty much the same. His cs is a bit lower, and he waited a bit longer before getting any sort of defensive stat against that Kayle, but it's easy to see by looking at his build and the kill map that he isn't running it down a lane. While I do not see evidence of intentional feeding in these two matches, there are a few other matches in his match history that I would consider to be a bit inting. It is possible that seeing those, Support has decided not to remove his punishment, as they consider him guilty of intentional feeding. However, even if that is the case, the punishment system is established to give players a chance to change that behavior after an initial warning: the 14 day suspension. I would recommend that your friend try to appeal the permaban, not necessarily the entire ban situation. While I understand that he might be frustrated and feel like he is being punished for something he did not do, it would be better to take the 14 day suspension and get his account back than lose it completely. I must add that I disagree rather strongly with Korppi, in that it is NOT a bannable offense for players to play badly. There is a significant difference in playing badly, and intentionally trying to feed kills to the enemy team. For example, in the two games you linked above, I would say that your friend played badly. Either because of bad matchups, mental tilt, or unknown reasons. But if you look at [this Lux match](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2723170391/245258311?tab=overview) he has quite a few deaths that occur so close together that it would appear that he is simply running up and dying. Some of them can be easily explained as him teleporting back to lane before being killed. But accounting for summoner spell cooldowns, there are a few deaths that are suspicious. He dies at 20m, 22m, 23m, 26m, 27m, 30m, 31m, and 34m. That is quite a few deaths that are only 1-2 minutes apart. In the case of the 20m and 22m deaths, 20m occurs by his own outer top turret, and 22m occurs at the inner mid turret. The death at 23m at least was him dying to take the top outer turret. The deaths at 26m and 27m both occur in mid lane, which makes it look like he just ran into lane twice to die, as neither death occurred at the turret that needed to be defended at that time (it fell in the interim between his deaths). Deaths at 30m and 31m are similarly close to one another. It's the sort of thing that either implies incredibly poor decision making on his part, or intentionally running into the team because he was upset after being killed almost immediately after the match began. And there are other matches in his match history that are similar, and would indicate that he's _possibly_ intentionally feeding. Matches where he goes 0/5/0, 0/10/2, 3/11/1, and 0/7/1. Though I have to say, from looking them over closely, I don't think he's actually inting in most of them. Meaning this as gently as possible, I think he might fall into the category of what used to be called "unskilled player." That's not to say that he doesn't have mechanical skill with Katarina. He obviously knows what he's doing sometimes if he can manage 28+ kills in some matches. It just seems to be overall decision-making and meta-gaming holding him back and causing him to snowball from one death into a massive death streak. I still think he should try appealing the permaban and try to get it reduced to a 14 day suspension, as he never had a chance to serve the 14 day suspension and demonstrate reform; reform being the crux of the entire punishment/reward system. If he does, and manages to get it reduced, I would also recommend he check out Flyerbek, and Katevolved on YouTube. They are high level Katarina one-tricks that he might learn some mechanics tricks from by checking them out. If he wants to learn the best way to change up a build for the specific matchup he is in, or how to play Katarina outside of the mid lane, he should probably look at Voyboy, BoxBox, or Scarra. Voyboy was one of the pioneers of the tank-kat top lane, while BoxBox began playing her after the recent rework in matchups where Riven and Fiora were banned. Scarra is also one of the most skilled Katarina players around, and his stream is also extremely informative. He can learn a lot from all of them. I wish him luck, whatever he decides to do.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > Would you consider the ire of player's teammates to be a warning? Yes and no. Yes, usually people will show signs of annoyance. A perceptive person would be able to pick up on those signals. No, if a player is not breaking ANY rules or the accuser lies. The community tells Riot what they want punished. Riot usually listens. The ultimate decisions are up to Riot alone though. Therefore, Riot should inform the players when they are breaking the rules that Riot enforces.
If they are not breaking any rules, or the accuser lies, it won't matter if they are reported. The report is false and it will be thrown out by the IFS. But as a general rule, if a player is getting in an argument with another teammate that lasts more than a few lines, and degrades into any form of personalized insults, even if their position in the argument is correct, they are breaking the rules of the game. They've moved into verbal abuse, and they are creating a hostile, negative environment where the other players in the match have to suffer for the actions of both parties involved in the argument. And at that time, if someone happens to say "just mute them and report them after" it should be a pretty clear warning to that player that they are doing something that they are going to end up being reviewed for. > The community tells Riot what they want punished. Riot usually listens. The ultimate decisions are up to Riot alone though. Therefore, Riot should inform the players when they are breaking the rules that Riot enforces. This isn't entirely correct. The IFS was designed and implemented by Riot, but it's a learning system. A type of AI that was created to monitor the actions that the players in each region find inappropriate and punish the players who take those actions; ranging from various verbal filters to the FeederBuster module. With regards to many things, the decision for it to be punishable was made by the players, seen in the overwhelmingly high number of reports submitted. If the community decided today that it wanted to pick a random word and turn it into a bannable offense, it could, simply by having everyone mass report anyone who used it. Within a short period of time, the system would register that the playerbase finds the word offensive, and would begin to punish for it. Of course, as you say, Riot has the ultimate decision making authority, and can at anytime reprogram parts of the IFS, or override any punishments that were issued. But they designed the IFS under the same principles of player input that the old Tribunal had. It simply doesn't seem quite as apparent, since we don't get to sit down with a bowl of popcorn and read the entire chat log anymore.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OnlyYouCanHearMe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=q6zfzVbr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-23T07:43:01.914+0000) > > Well, the individual punishment tiers (chat restrictions and the 14 day suspension) are the warnings and the feedback system that lets players know that they have an issue that needs to be corrected. They are accompanied with a Reform Card and chat logs for each punishment showing specific games in which the player displayed actions that earned them a report. The chat logs display all of your chat. Even the non punishable chat. It is also possible to get a chat log for a game play offense. On top of that, "negative" games are held against your account without notice. So, here is an example of a common situation: Player is mildly toxic. Riot doesn't tell them or punish them. Player continues behaving the same way (why change with no warnings). Some mildly toxic games later, Riot hits the player with a chat restriction and chat logs. The player was breaking the rules for "some" time, while not being warned.
Would you consider the ire of player's teammates to be a warning? Such as them becoming increasingly volatile, unable to focus, threatening to afk, all because of the things player says, The comments in both team and all chat "Just mute and report Player." That is about as obvious as it can get in a match that a player is doing something that pisses off the other people in the game.
: That's the first thing I told him to do. He submitted the ticket, and for some reason Riot denied his appeal and refused to lift his ban. That's the reason I'm making this post on here. The reason **I'm** making it and not him is because I actually have experience on the boards while he doesn't, and getting banned has left him rather depressed and emotional. Not a good mindset for actual constructive discussion and problem-solving.
I had hesitated about asking for his name because I didn't know if he was willing to have you post that here on the boards or not. It's one thing if he approves and gives his permission, and when it's done in a manner that is obviously not intended to start a witch hunt against him. I really, Really would like to see the copies of the tickets that he sent and received from Support. I need to know exactly what he asked them for, and exactly what they denied. As you said before, games like 4/8/3 and 2/8/2 don't look that bad, but I'll have to get into the match history and see where the deaths occurred and if there was any item buying/selling. The biggest thing to me, is that I really don't think he should have to face a permaban, when he wasn't allowed to serve his 14 day suspension. That's absolutely unfair, and in the past, if those glitches happen, they are usually revoked, provided the player asks clearly, and politely.
: Gauging behavior
Well, the individual punishment tiers (chat restrictions and the 14 day suspension) are the warnings and the feedback system that lets players know that they have an issue that needs to be corrected. They are accompanied with a Reform Card and chat logs for each punishment showing specific games in which the player displayed actions that earned them a report.
: A Friend of Mine Falsely Banned
That is quite unusual. We've seen cases like this before, where a player will actually get reported and issued with a ban for something during one match, but if they have already hopped into another match, it doesn't catch them until after that match. On rare occasions, if something happens in the second match, they can actually earn a second penalty in it as well, but generally speaking, Support is willing to remove the second penalty because the player is not actually given a chance to serve their punishment and demonstrate any reform. It might be a bit easier for us if your friend would be willing to post here, so that we can go through his match history and take a look at it. Sometimes there's things in there that can be used as a sort of defense when pleading his case to Support. Alternatively, sometimes there are things in a match history that make it absolutely impossible to get a ban removed. It might also help us a bit if your friend would be willing to post the logs of the tickets that he sent and received from Support, so we can know what reasons they gave for why they would not consider removing the permaban and allowing him to simply serve the 14 day suspension and then focus upon reform. I'm assuming that he would prefer to have all the bans removed completely, but without seeing his matches, we can't really say whether that would be feasible or not. Having the penalty reduced might be the best that he can aim for, depending on what is in the matches.
: THE 0RPHAN February 22nd 2018, 9:45:01 pm Hey there, No problem! I can say they are separate tracks for penalties. One does not influence another. In your example they would receive a 2 week ban for intentional feeding/trolling if they got off of a 2 week ban for toxicity. Hope that clears things up for you. The 0rphan Riot Games Player Support Morgana Support We have our answer. Now we both know for certain! ^.^
Awesome! Thank you so much for posting this! Imma add it to my bookmarks of things I'll forget I have bookmarked now! {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: People who report a lot lose value of their reports, so basically in long run they are better than toxic player People who report rarely/sometimes have a reason for it, so it is fair and not bad at all P.S repot yasuo
That was only on the old system. Because the new system is capable of reviewing every report submitted without having to worry about time/man-hours, reports no longer lose value if a person submits a false report. It hasn't been like that since they launched the IFS.
: got banned for two weeks by a toxic duo
Yeaaaaah, this definitely wasn't because of the "toxic duo." This was because of the hate speech (retard falls under that category) and the multiple instructions to kill themselves, specifically to "like go actually do it now." Both of those are something that Riot has zero tolerance for, and combining the two is enough for an immediate 14 day suspension. Your account will be on very thin ice when the suspension ends. Any further toxicity, even minor, if reported and verified by the IFS, will result in a permaban of the account. If you want to keep your account, you will need to be on your best behavior, and avoid these sorts of things in the future.
: Ever hear the expression “the straw that broke camel’s back”? Yeah that’s where I’m at with people’s in-game behavior. My very first experiences in this game back in season 4 were highly negative in regards to toxicity, and it frankly hasn’t changed. The report system does not work, even though riot tantrum insists it does by the Numbers. If it works I guess nearly every game has someone being toxic just because of a “bad day”? Please, spare me the false narrative bull. It’s gotten to the point that I do not see the chat feature as a positive aspect of this game. It should either be removed or players given the ability to permamute in-game chat. If the report system worked, you and others wouldn’t have the stock advice of “just mute”. If it actually worked, the need to mute players in nearly every game would not be needed. But sadly it is needed and it’s also why you and others have “just mute” as a stock solution. That is yours and so many other people’s solution because the REPORT SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK.
The thing about so many of us telling people to "just mute" as a "stock solution" is because it is the best, and easiest, solution for players who have a problem with being unable to stop themselves from responding to toxic players in chat. It requires phenomenally little effort, and keeps the player from ever seeing the toxic things in the first place, so they are not tempted to reply to them, which keeps them from being reported and punished again. It stops the cycle. The truth is, for most of us who say this, we don't actually have to use it very often ourselves. I might have to mute someone once in 30-40 matches. And even then, I don't leave them muted for the entire match. But I know myself, and my limits on how much irritation I can take before someone will tilt me, or ruin my fun. Most people who end up being punished don't know their limits, and it's just easier to tell them to mute all, or mute at the first sign of an impending argument, for THEIR sake. We're telling you and others that for your own benefit. We're trying to help. We can't follow every player around in match, read their chat and pop in to tell them when they should start muting people. So, we tell them ahead of time. And I know that you don't believe the report system works. But if you'll click on over to the rest of the Player Behavior Board, you'll see a few hundred threads about people given chat restrictions and bans because it does in fact work. It may not work the way you want it to, or when you want it to, but it does work.
Pott12 (EUW)
: perma banned
It's the hate speech that got you here. Riot has a zero-tolerance policy towards any form of it, and using homophobic slurs multiple times is enough to escalate an account to either a 14 day suspension, or a permanent suspension if they were already at a higher punishment tier.
zPOOPz (NA)
: that's quite an incentive not to get banned
^Agreed. It's what keeps me from ever giving in to the urge to say something snarky back to someone.
: Im very aware i was in the wrong. What i want is to be able to give him the punishment he deserves. But i very well can't being that i have been perma-banned and have no clue how to get chat logs.
When you try to log in, and you get the pop-up that says you are suspended, it should link you to them as part of the Reform Card.
: Player behavior
> [{quoted}](name=918MILFbangerTTG,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TpQIEj2o,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-22T22:33:31.772+0000) > I didnt report them That right there is why they won't get punished. YOU didn't report them, so the system doesn't know to scan their chat logs. If you had reported them, they would have been reviewed, and punished if punishment was deserved. Don't blame the system for not working if you don't submit the report that allows it to work. And as far as a permaban, those are only earned in one of two ways... either multiple punishments escalating in severity, or one match of extremely severe toxicity, generally including hate speech, death threats or instructions to self-harm. If it was the former, you had multiple warnings during your other punishments to change your behavior. If it was the latter, the level of flaming would be so high that there's honestly no reason to ever use that much toxicity in a match.
: Honor 3.1 (3 1/3?.....3 1/4???.....3.25?????)
Brandon Lee (EUNE)
: I tried run Hextech Repair Tool after i download it but it's not opening,do you know why?
Try running it as Administrator. It won't run if you don't.
Kantala (NA)
: Honestly, you'd have more luck and it'd probably be faster to uninstall the game and reinstall it, or use the Hextech Repair Tool. I think? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Hextech Repair Tool might work. And it's pretty fast.
Dréago (EUW)
: Is banning unfair?
The thing is, if all you do is type in chat "report this guy" you're not going to get banned. Even if you type it 2-3 times. But if you type it 5 times, and you flame him back for the rest of the match, then yes, you are at risk of being punished yourself. Because at that point, you aren't just asking for him to be held accountable to the rules. You are breaking the rules with him by flaming back. It doesn't matter who started it, Riot will finish it. You just have to decide what matters more to you... the amount of money you spent on your account (which includes all the time you had to work to earn that money)... or getting the last word in against some little pissant who probably isn't going to give two shits about what you have to say, and might even have a better comeback than you anyway.
Sanngriðr (EUNE)
: I still don't get your system.
It all depends on whether players report you. If the players don't report you for saying the things that you say on your troll account, you won't be punished for it. If the players report you for saying things on your main account, you will be punished for it. That's the bottom line.
Brandon Lee (EUNE)
: Ticket response time
It usually depends on the amount of tickets that they have. If they have a lot of tickets, it can take up to 48 hours for a response from a Behavioral Support Specialist. But as yours is not behavioral, you should have a response a bit faster. I would guess within 24 hours.
xMidnight (EUW)
: What if i dont have friends or any reason to exist at all? Everything id want is just not possible to get, so i dont see a reason to keep going and yeah..
There is always a reason. Sometimes it's just harder to find. If you can't find a big one, pick a small one and start there. Take it one day at a time. You can make it through this.
: > [{quoted}](name=OnlyYouCanHearMe,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ALx9Q9Eq,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2018-02-22T08:02:29.778+0000) > > This was always one of my favorite pairings, in their old lore. I&#x27;m not really sure how well it works anymore since they&#x27;ve updated them both to be Aspects, and they aren&#x27;t entirely themselves anymore. But given that they leave off with Diana running off down a mountain, and Leona desperately chasing after her to talk to her, no longer trying to kill her... I would think they could make it work. I also saw a rumor about a Lunar Leona skin and a Dawn Diana... I was definitely intrigued. I might have to write me some fan fiction here.... Me too. I still think the ship works, even with the update. Do you have a source for the Lunar Leona and Dawn Diana ? You got me interested. I just love [these two](https://78.media.tumblr.com/171c5299071418f222b2cf86c53e5d22/tumblr_p3niihs7tG1t11cf2o1_500.png) <3
I can't remember which video it was in, but I saw it in one of Redmercy's "leak" videos. Which he always presents as that they may be entirely rumors, and not completely true information. It would be nice though if they did something with them as an event like they did with Riven and Yasuo. They would be so perfect for it!
QQ Graxil (EUW)
: Do we even know how long Jarvan III has been the king? It could have been only a few years since the death of his father, so maybe Xin Zhao has only been rescued by J2 like 5 years ago (being that he would be around his prime, and so makes sense that he is relatively young)
That's a very good point. I'm not actually sure. In Jarvan IV's lore, it states that he was groomed to take over as king from the time of his birth as a royal prince. And it later says that as soon as he comes of age, his father is the one who bestows his military rank upon him. So, we know for a fact that J3 has been king at least since J4 came of age which is at least a decade, as it has to cover all his beginning military training, his first successful campaign, his botched campaign and capture by Noxus, his rescue/escape, his time spent healing, training and fighting Shyvana's mother with Shyvana and the villagers, his return to the capital, and finally his resuming of normal battle affairs. But I suspect that because it states he was groomed to take over at birth, that J3 was king at the time he was born. The kings of Demacia are not hereditary. They are chosen by a council, so there's actually no way that a grandson of a king would automatically be assumed to be third in line. But if J3 was elected after J2, he might think that he could sway them into picking his son as well.
: > Actions that have been performed on your account are in violation of the League of Legends Terms of Use. You can review these terms at http://www.leagueoflegends.com/legal/termsofuse > Due to the severity of this violation, your League of Legends account has been banned until Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 UTC 2100 This is what I got in my email, and the date I was banned on was 2/21/2018.
Yep, it's just a security lock for your protection. The year code 2100 is used for "Account Security Compromised" and it does not refer to any sort of behavioral ban. Just wait for Support to reply to your ticket, be polite when you talk to them, and answer any questions that they ask you regarding the account. They will want to verify that you are the owner, so they will ask a bunch of things like what was the first champion, first RP purchase, what ISP, which emails are associated with it, things like that. Just give them as many answers as you can remember, since not everyone can remember their first champion, and they will unlock it for you. Hopefully they get back to you soon, and I'm glad that there's nothing for you to worry about. =) {{sticker:sona-playing}} -------------------------------------------------------- _formerly VentressRedeemed_
: We Got Confirmed Gays But What About Confirmed Lesbians?
> [{quoted}](name=TsundereHeiress,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ALx9Q9Eq,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-20T21:48:01.694+0000) > > Dear Riot, A lot of us hate you for making gays, but even more of us love you for it. While you confirm who is gay left and right, it leaves a lot of us wondering who is lesbian. All we have is theories and hopes. Personally I theorized that Vi is a huge lesbo. Why? Because the debonair skins are supposed to be like heart seeker skins correct? If that&amp;#039;s the case then why is she the only woman to wear pants while the others get skirts and dresses? > > Moving on, I&amp;#039;m sure we ALL from the LGBTQ+ community would LOVE to know who is confirmed a lesbo. Balance things out. Let us know. We already got 4 or 5 gay boys. I want 4 or 5 lesbians in return please. Ty. You know, it doesn't matter to me what sexual orientation a champion has, as long as it makes the champion interesting, and gives them depth. I personally loved what they did with Varus. I never saw it as "Riot made Varus gay." I saw it as "That man loved his heartlight so very much that he would risk anything to try and save him, and it led to potential disaster. I wonder how long they can fight against the Darkin? I hope one day we get to see what happens when he finally returns home again." And that's what a champion's lore is all about. It's supposed to draw people in, and leave them wanting more. And with Diana and Leona... each time they update that lore, it's more and more heart-wrenching. It breaks me in two, but I just have to know what is being done to my sweet, wonderful, lunar, lady. I can understand that not everyone shares an open-minded, or accepting, view of different sexual orientations, but I still strongly support Riot when they decide to shake things up a bit, and break with the status quo. It's not like Riot is trying to force anyone to change their beliefs regarding sexuality. They are not trying to make players watch, or participate in any sort of homosexual, or bisexual romantic actions. Players are entitled to feel the way they want to feel about it. It can be very unfortunate to come across someone who is extremely antagonistic about it, but that type of person can be on either side of the fence. I've seen just as many raging homophobics as I've seen raging homosexuals with giant chips on their shoulders. And neither one of them ever helps the situation. People need to just take a minute, take a deep breath, remember that it is a person - a living breathing person - that they are about to unleash all that hate upon, and decide if it's really worth it. And if not, which it usually isn't, they need to just walk away. But enough of them. They are not worth dwelling on. I wouldn't give up hope on having some lesbians come through. It might just surprise you., and them changing every character's background.
: You know, LGBT doesn't just mean gay and lesbian. I'm pretty sure Vi was confirmed as bisexual somewhere on Reddit (I can't find the source anymore because it's been a while, but a writer confirmed it by using a tacos/hot dogs analogy). Jhin is asexual/aro-ace/whatever, you get it. He doesn't understand love the same way we do. Taric isn't gay, but pansexual : he isn't attracted to men or women, but beautiful things in general. Varus HIMSELF isn't gay. Kai and Valmar are (but they can still be bi, y'know). Tamara, from one of Piltover's stories, could be bisexual or lesbian. And don't get me started on Leona and Diana. Like I said, the B, T and + in LGBT+ aren't here for decoration.
> [{quoted}](name=LadyStegosaurus,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ALx9Q9Eq,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-02-21T17:56:32.825+0000) > > And don&#x27;t get me started on Leona and Diana. This was always one of my favorite pairings, in their old lore. I'm not really sure how well it works anymore since they've updated them both to be Aspects, and they aren't entirely themselves anymore. But given that they leave off with Diana running off down a mountain, and Leona desperately chasing after her to talk to her, no longer trying to kill her... I would think they could make it work. I also saw a rumor about a Lunar Leona skin and a Dawn Diana... I was definitely intrigued. I might have to write me some fan fiction here....
: Permanent suspension for legit no reason
Can you tell us the year that goes with the ban date? Most of the years are actually a code, and we can tell you what it means if we know the year. Since you didn't get chat logs in a Reform Card when you tried to log into the client, it was not a toxicity ban from the Instant Feedback System. It sounds as if it was probably a security lock because they thought your account might have been compromised.
Chermorg (NA)
: Hiya. I'd like to answer a few of your questions regarding the Naming and Shaming rule on the boards. First of all, Daenrys really did hit the nail on the head: "so that palyers wont be harass or witch hunt the accused". That is the entire reason for the rule. No player, regardless of if they are accused of wrongdoing, deserves to be harassed by others. While we do not necessarily condone other players' poor behavior, the boards are not the proper avenue to report them for it or start an investigation of it. That is done through the end of game report screen, or in some circumstances in a Support ticket to Riot. This all being said, you didn't even accuse them of wrongdoing - you are merely trying to shame them as a bad player. >Meanwhile what do we have in terms of retaliation? This is exactly how the system is designed. Riot does not support retaliation, and in fact, retaliating against negative behavior with more negative behavior is grounds for a punishment in game. The concept of "fighting fire with fire" is not a good one - and in fact the other adage used to describe it has a part most people forget: "an eye for an eye *makes the whole world blind*". It is not acceptable to attempt to shame someone just because you disagree with the matchmaking algorithms placing them in your game. League is a game that is supposed to be welcoming to all players, and this type of behavior is not conducive to an environment where players are able to grow and learn in the community. If you have any further questions about this please do not hesitate to contact us in the [Boards Moderation Discord server](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification), or you can reply here and I will do my best to answer you.
I actually have a question, Chermorg. Whenever I run across a Name-and-Shame post, I usually report it so that it gets brought to the attention of the mods/advisors, but I'm not actually sure which category I should use, or if it really matters that much. I think I've been using Harassment (as opposed to Offensive, Spam, or Incorrect Board). Is that how we should be handling this?
PalPlays (NA)
: Appreciation: You cannot downvote threats without opening them
I really like the mechanic as well. It helps me keep track of which threads I've read, as opposed to any that I might have mis-clicked on.
: I will work on trying to find an official source to cite for a confirmation. I am basing it off some people being confused how they got two 14 day bans in close proximity.
Definitely let us know if you find one! I would hate to be telling people the wrong information and having them be worried more than necessary.
xMidnight (EUW)
: Im already depressed and there arent many things that still make me happy, and quite honestly its a thought i have sometimes, and since others seem to want it aswell, idk what else to feel :/
I suppose that is something that no one else can tell you. Only you can find things that make you happy, or at least give you a few moments of relief from the darker thoughts. But you don't have to do it alone. Spend time with your friends, your family, a significant other if you have one, coworkers... Even if you don't tell them everything about what you are feeling, they can help support you while you find your way. And there are always people around each of us who care, and would hate to see us make such an irreversible decision.
: im upset over my honor because I don't go out of my way to flame people. I also don't play like an asshat. like if we wanna get into it, I don't kill dc's, I don't int, and I rarely surrender. if thats all revoked because I couldnt stand a feeding and didn't simply say go to hell or fuck you, then somethings wrong with this system.
It would have been much better if you had simply told him "fuck you" or "go to hell." Because telling someone to kill themselves is NOT the same thing as just swearing at him. Then you might've gotten a chat restriction, and most of us would have commiserated with you for having to deal with a crappy teammate. We may not have agreed that you should curse him out, but we've all had frustrating teammates, and most people can at least understand the urge to resort to yelling at someone who ruins a match. What we don't understand is why anyone would ever jump immediately to telling someone to kill themselves. It's not a logical progression. You wouldn't say it to someone who cut in front of you in line at a store, or messed up your order at a restaurant. So if you wouldn't say it to those stranger's faces, why would you say it to a stranger's screen online? For most of us, it's such an irrational, unwarranted, and inappropriate comment, that we aren't able to sympathize with someone who has resorted to it. The best we can manage is to try to politely explain why the phrase should not be used so lightly. And while I'm sure it is upsetting to have lost your honor, it was removed because the use of such a phrase is considered extremely dishonorable. It is one of the few things that are held at zero-tolerance. The only caution I can give you is that your account is now on extremely thin ice. Any further rule-breaking will result in a permaban. And as it appears that you've had this account for a while, I would imagine you don't want to lose it completely. It will not have to be a big offense like this one to earn a permaban. From here, even a match of mild toxicity can tip you into it if you are reported and it is verified by the IFS. Please, be very cautious will how you proceed in game. It will take you quite a few games to work your account back into better standing. Usually, it's 3-6 months worth of regular gameplay for someone at the third punishment tier before they are not in danger of an immediate permaban.
: ***
Quite a few of the people who play this game would be quite upset if they knew that their actions caused another player to end their own lives. Not everyone is so entirely self-absorbed that they are only concerned with themselves and their own little circle of family, friends and acquaintances. Some of us actually care about not being an absolute shit to the rest of the people on the planet. Don't lump us all in with your lack of consideration for others.
xMidnight (EUW)
: Its still sad for one game to get 14 day ban when the worst thing you said is that lulu requires you to have a negative amount braincells to play :/ And tbh i kinda feel like following this corkis advice so, im glad riot likes that kinda encourangement.
Don't give some asshole on the internet that kind of power over you. His words aren't even worth the amount of time it took you to make this post. He doesn't deserve that kind of focus. Put him out of your mind, and do something for you that makes you happy. Whatever that is, just take some time for you, even if it's just 15 minutes to unwind a bit.
: In What World Does This Constitute A Perma Ban?
Unfortunately, this constitutes a permaban in this world. Once you are on the last punishment tier, any viable report can tip your account into it if it is confirmed by the IFS. And while you aren't using hate speech or death threats, you do spend a considerable amount of time being passive aggressive, snide and sarcastic to the rest of your team, and devote at least 15 lines of chat to complaining and harassing the ADC for their runes. When you have been warned that any further rule breaking will cost you your account, you have to know that picking fights with your team is incredibly foolish. You may try to brush this punishment off as Riot being overly harsh, or ridiculously unfair, but the reality is that these logs are considered below the standard of the League community. Most players do not want to deal with this sort of thing in their matches. Yes, they have the option of muting you in the current match. But they also have the option of reporting you and letting Riot make the call on whether it wants to mute you from the game. Which they did, and the IFS agreed that your behavior was unacceptable. If you choose to make another account, try to keep in mind that this sort of thing will lead you right back here, and avoid it if you can. For your own sake.
xMidnight (EUW)
: Telling people to kill themselves is allowed in league nowadays?
No, those things are not allowed. I cannot tell you why the player has not been banned, only that the Boards are filled with hundreds of posts from players banned for saying them proving that Riot does in fact ban for them. If you reported him very recently, as in the match before the one he just joined, it's possible that he jumped immediately into a match and the system won't ban him until after. I cannot say for sure, as I don't have access to Riot's system to know exactly what is happening with that player's account. And as far as your own smurf, you cannot compare the two toxicities. Your smurf was banned because of the amount of toxicity that accumulated on it. It's entirely independent from what anyone else says or does, and newer accounts are often judged more harshly due to the high percentage of them being smurfs.
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OnlyYouCanHearMe

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