: I just notice jinx pick rate and winrate numbers, where is her nerf for real ?
Not directed at the OP but it makes me salty that I honestly saw threads wanting to nerf Tristana before I saw threads wanting to address the fact that Jinx has been the best ADC for nearly the entire season. She's freelo. It doesn't even matter if you lose lane as Jinx or if you're not even good at her as a champion. Just turn your brain off, wait until level 9 and until you have Runaan's and then AoE rocket crit people from 700 range. Yes, you heard me. 700 range. That's higher Tristana's at level 18. She gets it twice as fast as Tristana and benefits from a better mid to late game for it. Why is Tristana in pro play in a solo lane and doing meh to bad in solo lanes for soloqueue suddenly the call from god to nerf her... but Jinx has been dominating bot lane and games for nearly the entirety of the season but everyone just shrugs? Seriously, something needs to be toned back on Jinx because her long range and ability to AoE crit your entire team is exceptionally problematic. Why is she allowed this kind of interaction but for Caitlyn, it was the first thing to go? And Caitlyn didn't even have *higher than a 50% WR when they utterly neutered her for a season and a half.* Get rid of the Runaan's interaction or greatly reduce the damage that her rockets can do. Because as it stands, the only weakness Jinx has is being immobile and that's even negated by having a huge fuck off range and a reset that gives her huge amounts of MS and AS.
: Well, yeah, that would be the plan from the start. It's why you would do this.
It was never the plan from the start to put them in the Blue Essence Emporium. .-. Hence me saying that I liked that they were available there twice a year. Again, I don't understand what you and the other person are talking about.
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: Except the old client offered what you can buy with BE for completely free. ...Just some food for thought.
I'm failing to understand what your post is referring to... They're going to have common Eternals for buying with Blue Essence(the free points you get just by playing the game) through the Emporium. Which is nice since there's nothing, as an older player with all of the champions, for me to buy so I'm just accumulating huge amounts of BE for nothing.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
Hi Meddler! I just, again, wanted to talk about Tristana. She's been popular in a solo lane lately and my question is if Riot have any plans on nerfing her for this or if there is a possibility that you guys might do some work on her to make Top/Mid a more permanent home for her. If not, and you do plan on nerfing her, would you look at improving her late game and nerfing her early so she might have a chance, as a fellow hyper carry, of keeping up with other champions like Jinx or Sivir or Twitch late game. As it stands, if she is facing either of them she tends to get outscaled hard while having a more fragile, feast or famine early game than either.
: /dev: Changes to Eternals
This doe seem better than the original at the very least. And I like that you can buy them for BE occasionally. As an older player still sitting on 100k or more of BE, I like the option of having more to spend it on.
Destaice (NA)
: “This champion is too strong in pro play so now nobody gets to play it.”
To everyone using Dota 2 as an example of balancing for solely pro play, I would like to also point out that Dota 2 has a much smaller player base. All of the statistical websites I've found to indicate the number of players for both League and Dota 2 show that League has a much larger player base than Dota 2. So stating that Dota 2's model of only caring about proplay allows a game to exist longer and better is questionable at best. When DOTA 2 only averages about 20 million players to Leagues 120 million, I'd say that balancing for only ProPlay is *not* good for the longevity of a game. Furthermore, I'd say that the casual nature of League(being easier to pick, more user friendly, and, surprisingly, more new player friendly) *is what keeps it ahead of Dota 2 in player count.* Riot want money. They should be balancing for the casual and average player. Stop nerfing champions that are being abused by a tiny minority in what essentially is a completely different game.
: Galio is the Perfect Example of Modern League
I had this thought last night but the number of strategies and champions that they have collectively gutted for ProPlay is high enough that I imagine if all of them were viable at the exact same time, ProPlay itself would be varied and interesting. I was personally lamenting the Lane Swap Meta of season 5; I thought watching the teams rush out onto the field to set up *strategic wards* and try to scout out the positions of where their enemy team would be going was very interesting and enjoyable to watch. And it had 0 affect on normal play as far as I know. Granted, I will admit I could have rose tinted glasses on but my point stands. I also don't feel like they should be balancing for Professional Play. They make their money off the normal players. The Irons, Bronze, and Silvers that primarily make up this game are the people that buy their skins, their emotes, their loot crates. Worlds itself is *not* self sustained; that's been seen by the fact that they always release a new skin(which the normal people buy) to help support it. Why would you balance a game for a tiny minority when you should instead balance it for the vast majority? You will turn more of a profit that way, you will have a happier player base(happier than it is now, that's for damn sure), and it would allow Pro Play itself to breath and evolve on its own. I don't know why Riot has this idea that they have to "fix" proplay; let the pro players fix it. Let them puzzle it out and experiment and let it evolve on its own; that's more entertaining to watch. Interest in pro play always rises when they come up with a new pick or strategy. And it always dwindles and people become frustrated when said pick or strategy gets nerfed. If they're going to refuse to make separate patches for Pro Play and Normal Play, then they should only be patching for the mass population, who are going to be the people who buy your products and merch in the first place.
Bârd (NA)
: 1. Being versatile isn't a problem. If anything, more champions should be like this. 2. At no point does Trist have 700 range. She caps out at 661, and that's not until level 18. 3. No, it's not "Free". Rapid Fire takes up most of her power budget, and is the reason her passive and ult are kinda meh. 4. Or to put it another way, "Tristana can't freeze lane". She pushes naturally, but not particularly hard. Most champions can out-push her if they want to. 5. *Laughs in Ziggs* 6. You can defend your tower by attacking Trist when she tries to charge up the bomb or by keeping your lane shoved. 7. Rocket Jump has 900 range. Camille's two E dashes have a combined range of 1200. 8. Trist can't use W while CC'd, she can just buffer it through CC. This is not unique to Trist, this is just how cast times work in League. 9. Yes, resets are kinda the entire point of Tristana... 10. Yes, she has a knockback. So what? It ain't awful, but Buster Shot isn't very good compared to other ults. 11. Trist will escape nerfs because she's not a problem, you're just bad.
As a Trist main who has been watching the PBE anxiously, thank you. Tristana is the only thing that keeps me invested in League anymore and she's not even good right now. If they were nerf her just because of prevalence in pro play, I would honestly stop playing. I also wish you had mentioned how Jinx does actually get 700 range at level 9 and has a much higher winrate in soloqueue.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=00000005,timestamp=2019-08-19T22:52:48.560+0000) > > Like, no hating or anything but are you like Riot's feels good man? You always reappear when they've done something particularly stupid to upset players. I assume you're just a nice guy who wants to make the players feel like someone cares, which is nice, but is definitely spooky. lol no worries. My MO (if you can call it that) is that I'm always on the forums. I lurk around chatting occasionally, but mostly reading since my schedule is pretty crazy recently (I'm making something that is dope! really excited to talk about it). However, my personality is such that when people are feeling pain or angry about something I speak up and be more vocal. Thats probably why you see me pop up when things like this show up. I've been told I would have made a good doctor, nurse, or first responder, but I chose video games instead XD. Today however, I popped up cause I wanted to see if ppl wanted to play clash with me lol. I just happened to see this thread and commented :)
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000000050000,timestamp=2019-08-19T23:10:12.811+0000) > > lol no worries. My MO (if you can call it that) is that I'm always on the forums. I lurk around chatting occasionally, but mostly reading since my schedule is pretty crazy recently (I'm making something that is dope! really excited to talk about it). However, my personality is such that when people are feeling pain or angry about something I speak up and be more vocal. Thats probably why you see me pop up when things like this show up. I've been told I would have made a good doctor, nurse, or first responder, but I chose video games instead XD. > > Today however, I popped up cause I wanted to see if ppl wanted to play clash with me lol. I just happened to see this thread and commented :) Fair enough! :) I get being a severe empath and salute you for your attempts to be friendly and outgoing! And I can't wait to see what you're working on. :o I hope it turns out awesome and that it'll be something we all get to seen soon!
Bazerka (NA)
: I'd assume (emphasizing the **assume** part here) that the team is taking their time in how they want to respond. Imo I'd rather receive a slow, but well thought out response than a quick and dirty one. Emotions tend to run high in situations like these, and no one wants to say something they might regret :)
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-19T21:32:33.810+0000) > > I'd assume (emphasizing the **assume** part here) that the team is taking their time in how they want to respond. Imo I'd rather receive a slow, but well thought out response than a quick and dirty one. Emotions tend to run high in situations like these, and no one wants to say something they might regret :) Like, no hating or anything but are you like Riot's feels good man? You always reappear when they've done something particularly stupid to upset players. I assume you're just a nice guy who wants to make the players feel like someone cares, which is nice, but is definitely spooky.
Bazerka (NA)
: Anyone wanna play in the clash beta?
I'd be interested. :) I play ADC; Primarily Tristana but I can play Ashe, Cait, Xayah… I can learn most of the ADCs as well. Edit: I'm Silver 3. ;-; I forgot to put it
: ADC and Support question
Attacking the minions needlessly can screw up lane position which can put your ADC in a bad spot. If your ADC is recalling and the minion wave is trapped on their side, it wouldn't hurt to push it under the turret completely for them so it will reset; however, if you're just pushing regardless when they're not there, that can leave the wave over extended and leave them vulnerable to all in's or jungle ganks. This is especially bad if the enemy support is a heavy all in champion like Ali or Leo who can pray on the ADC more easily if they're over extended in the lane. That said, you shouldn't AA the minions unless you're trying to help them push after killing them. AA'ing the minions can throw off your ADC's last hitting which is frustrating for many of them.
: > ... but also have the lowest damage output of the ADCs to counter that. Well... He does. Ezreal DPS, especially if he builds a Gauntlet, is much lower than Kaisa, or Ashe, or Sivir, or Jinx, or any other Crit ADC.
He actually does *not*. He has one of the highest Damage to Champion outputs in the game. https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend He's like fifth in the list. The only ADC passing him is Kog'maw.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=82ke2I0N,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-15T14:12:11.536+0000) > > Its not the Master Yi with true damage that he causes the issues with. Its when he comes back to lane with a cheap tank/bruiser item and starts to body his fellow ADCs who can't get early armor pen. This isn't even touching on the fact that he gets tons of extra gold by being one of the best and one of the only abusers of Klepto. So he always has extra gold for items that are far less expensive than normal ADC ones. i get what you mean. In the situation of ez vs other adcs is what you guys are talking about. But technically, other adcs can build the same thing. And I feel like a draven rushing bloodthirster is way more powerful than ezreal rushing iceborne. Any poke ezreal does gets negated easily by bloodthirster, and bloodthirster will outdamage iceborne in an all in fight because of the 80 ad and lifesteal being better in all in compared to iceborne. The only way iceborne would win is if you happen to land a couple of q early and force an all in on the draven with blood thirster before he can heal up a good amount of the poke. point is blood thirster rush is much more powerful than iceborne gauntlet rush
The thing with Draven is he falls off like a lead balloon and he takes far more skill than Ezreal. Ezreal is more mobile, scales far better, and doesn't really fall off at all due to his ability to abuse utility based items like Iceborne and being able to build some AP, such as Hextech Gunblade or Luden's. Draven has far less effective range than Ezreal as well. Furthermore, you don't even have to *hit* your enemy with Iceborne; you just have to hit a unit near them and they're instantly slowed and made easier to hit by virtue of *its an AOE slow.* You can't actually get in range of Ezreal as an immobile ADC and even the mobile ones can't do enough damage early on through his huge bonus in armor. And no, no other ADC can affectively rush Iceborne Gauntlet like Ezreal can. None of them can proc it with as much efficiency and easy as Ezreal can. None benefit from the sheen proc quite as hard as Ezreal does. So no, no other ADCs can build the same thing. His lane is uninteractive, making him frustrating to play against since that is the *prime time to be punishing him*; its intended to be his weakest point but it doesn't matter because his Q spam and his E make him the absolute safest ADC in the game, bar none. His midgame spike is massive and his late game is actually not that terrible either. His massive range and high scalings mean that it doesn't matter if the enemy Jinx has gotten her items; he can out put huge amounts of damage from safe range where as Jinx has to get into 700 units(which is actually shorter than most dash ranges). I believe he is actually one of the highest average damage per game ADCs in the game. Champion.GG isn't the most reliable source, admittedly, but they do list Ezreal as fairly high up there, beaten out only by Kog'maw. https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend They continually have to nerf the champion despite his flagging WR because people find him frustrating and unenjoyable to deal with. Maybe its time for them to admit something has to give and, of the options on the table, the one least problematic for Ezreal would be the removal of his ability to proc Iceborne Gauntlet.
: I play ezreal a fuck ton. Armor does shit on him because his health is so small. A yi will rip you up freelo even with that frozen gauntlet.
Its not the Master Yi with true damage that he causes the issues with. Its when he comes back to lane with a cheap tank/bruiser item and starts to body his fellow ADCs who can't get early armor pen. This isn't even touching on the fact that he gets tons of extra gold by being one of the best and one of the only abusers of Klepto. So he always has extra gold for items that are far less expensive than normal ADC ones.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 9
Hey Meddler! I was just curious if you have any comments on Tristana's current power curve. She's been trending very heavily toward a feast or famine early game champion which is a little saddening for someone who originally began to main her for her late game carry potential. Is this a trend that Riot and the balance team intend to continue and, if it is, are you going to look to help her more in her solo lanes?
: What keeps you playing League?
An addiction though my interest has waned greatly since about season 5 or 6 because for a long time, it used to be a social thing for me. I played more in season 7 and early season 8(before 8.11) because I was on a Bronze/Silver team and, again, it was social. When I don't have friends or anything playing, however, I really only play to play Tristana. I'm competitive and I enjoy doing well on her; its a big rush. That said, the amount I play has dropped significantly. I play a game once a day, maybe, and that's largely because I work 40 hours a week and I'm playing after work.
: Trist autobeats melees, Darius autobeats tanks, do you understand how vastly different that is. Personally, I'm against hard counterpicks existing to begin with, so I'm not in favor of Dar autobeating tanks either. I literally wrote a paragraph explaining Dar's counterplay. Kiting, and getting close to avoid his sweet spot if u have mobility on melee. Trist outscales Darius, and all ADCs outscale non-hypercarry top laners by default of building crit and being an adc. You don't look at the 50 minute spikes because those are anomalies. Do you not understand statistics? When was the last time you saw a 50 min game, or even a 40 minute one? In addition, those datapoints aren't guaranteed Dar vs Trist, so they're skewed from low sample size and inconsistent data points. Does that 50 minute winrate on Darius make any sense, compared to the rest of the data? What? Dar can't tank, Dar never tanks. They effectively play like assassins. Trist outscales over time by building crit, and still has siege utility when behind. ADCs are always useful lategame, no matter what. I have played the ranged part as pre-rework Kayle, Quinn, Jayce and Liss. And every time I die, I know I fucked up. But I also just autowin lane by spamming rightclick any time they get in range. > Like seriously, have you any idea how frustrating it is to play a champion that everyone complains about to the point that Riot systematically nerfs and warps her identity? Pretty sure people complain about Darius more, both post and pre rework.
No they dont complain about Darius. I literally see post after post after post about how broken my champion apparently is anytime she makes an appearance in pro play and then it never fails, it never matters, that her wr and feel of play are acceptable; riot will nerf her to shut up the whiners. And no. Trist still does not out scale Darius. His winrate by game length barely brushed a 51% at all points in the game. The lowest drop is at 40 minutes before it shoots up at 50. Tristana's only high winrate moment is literally pre 25 minutes. Her winrate after that takes a fucking running jump off a cliff. She has a below 50% we for *most of the game after 25 minutes.* If Darius's wr at 50 minutes going up to a 60% does not matter and is anomalous, guess what? Tristana's going up to a *49%* at 45 is just as much. And good job explaining how Darius's wr magically just keeps going up after the 40 min mark while Tristana's continues to decline. Also what utility does Tristana have? I would love to hear this. Darius can and historically has 100% been able to build tank items like randuins and righteous glory in order to be useful from behind on cheaper items. What utility does Tristana bring if her AAs dont do damage? What slow or CC does she have that isnt directly connected to her own survival? How exactly is she going to siege if she's always dead because she is behind? Enlighten me because generally if I'm behind as Trist, I sit back and pray that my team can carry me. And wait wait, you acknowledge you die but somehow you're still auto winning? And by the way, great advice for Darius. "Just kite him." Yeah, lemme do that when he has about 100 more MS from me and is going to continually proc it using Phage. Sure sure. That's so much counterplay compared to the paragraph of counter play I gave Tristana. I didnt even touch on how you're relying on your team to fluctuate the comp to make up for the fact there is a squishy ADC top instead who only brings damage.
: ADC 2k19 - Why does it feel bad to play an adc?
Shhh... This is the boards. If ADCs are unhappy about their lot in the game, they're just whining. That said, yes. ADC feels really bad to play, especially if you aren't playing one of the better ADCs like Jinx or Sivir. Playing someone like Tristana(who they've worked hard to push into a feast or famine play style and have succeeded) or Xayah or Varus feels really rough and frustrating.
: Hi, actual toplaner here. I don't give a shit if you come toplane. Just don't come toplane on *my* team. It doesn't take much to deal with most ADCs toplane. Just have any ability to get on top of them at all, which can be anything from having a dash to having CC to just taking {{summoner:6}}. ADCs top isn't the problem. Gnar, Vlad, Kennen...They're problems toplane, but they're also not ADCs.
Yeah, you're like the first top laner in existence that I've seen say that. I literally hard an argument a few days ago with a Darius Main who asked for advice on how to deal with Tristana top and then wanted to try and say none of them worked. You literally said the same shit I told him. I think he was just bad.
: I'm just impressed someone actually linked multiple websites instead of just linking the 1 that supported their argument the most
Well if I dont and I only use the one I like, everyone will just instantly ignore everything I said because they'll claim the source I used was unreliable.
: Because these days you dont really reach late game or if we get past 30 min mark is because the winning team starts trolling/throwing or they decimate everything cementing their win. On rare cases is because the losing team is managing on its own to get picks and objectives and delay the game. The state of the game is pretty much determinied in the first 20 mins or under. Trist has her E that helps taking tower easier and clear waves fast too like jinx. Trist has 2 ways to keep herself safe her W and R even though that isnt always enough to keep her alive. Also her W resets too every time her E blows up too not on kill/assist only.
Your argument literally makes no sense. It makes so little sense I dont even know how to correct you. That's how bad your argument is. What you basically told me is that,"Her late game wr is bad because games don't last long enough." What you're ignoring is how each graph on the stat website lists wr by game length. The only thing shorter games would do is affect her over all winrate. It would have 0 affect on how likely she is to win pre or post 25 minutes.
Rioter Comments
: You can run it down, but like every other ranged champ she has to royally screw up by underestimating you. You don't have initiative in the matchup. Thresh hook isn't canceled by Dar E. I don't even know if trist's E is, never seen it happen. You don't catch up post 6, and you shouldn't be able to go in before then because you're hp will be too low. Combination of ghost/flash isn't enough for that. This is assuming she's shoving, which means you won't have vision, so there's a high chance that it's a bait (happens with most ranged top). I don't play Trist, but I know how ranged laners work. They have to mess up for you to do anything; you can't do anything in lane. Trist isn't unbeatable, but it isn't fair for her to autowin lane and bully you into oblivion just by being ranged and having escape tools. Dar autobeats tanks (excluding Malph, and Shen, according to shen mains), but even then he still has counterplay. Ranged champs just aa statcheck bully melees out of lane, and (besides quinn/teemo) outscale. It takes more effort to play melee into ranged, and you get very little payoff due to how far behind you are early. And, with how snowball dependent many melees in top are to have any influence in the game, Trist and co. just take you out of the match. Please don't talk about lane matchups if you DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY THE LANE.
Thresh hook cancels *Tristana's* jump. .-. I never said anything abut it canceling or being canceled by Darius's E. And Tristana's E is her Bomb and isn't canceled by anything except Sivir Spell Shield or Windwall or Fizz Troll Poling. or if you're unlucky and cast it on a minion as it dies. And you obviously don't know how Trist works because, again, while I don't play top much, I have played the Trist into a Darius match up often enough to know that after Tabbies, Darius just runs your ass down. All melee tops do. And you acknowledge yourself that Darius auto beats tanks; how is that any different from your idea that Tristana Autobeats Darius(despite being proven wrong by someone who has literally played the match up dozen's of times)? You say he has counter play but what is it? I told you what the counter play to Tristana was as someone with more experience with this champion; probably as someone with more experience on Tristana than you have on Darius, honestly. And no, Tristana does not out scale. People need to get this idea of Tristana being a hyper carry out of their head. She hasn't been a hyper carry for a while; that's what happens when people whine and complain about a champion even if her winrate isn't that high. Its literally people whining because a champion has counter play but they think she's "annoying" and want to ignore the obvious counter play. You don't want to believe that Tristana's late game has been pissed away by consistent, constant nerfs? You can check her WR by game length: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana and compare it to real hyper carries: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kogmaw https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/vayne https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jinx https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/twitch https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kayle See how her's starts out high in the early game and then nose dives mid game. It evens out to a 50% wr late game but nothing like Vayne, Kog, Kayle who all spike to 60% or 70% WR late game. Funny that you say that Tristana out scales Darius considering his late game winrate actually spikes higher than hers. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/darius Past 40 minutes, his WR goes all the way up to a 60%. .-. Tristana's just keeps nose diving. So yeah, clearly you know your champion and the range vs melee match up very well. And considering Tristana has been turned into a mobile Draven(win early or don't win at all), her being behind is far more detrimental than a Darius, who can build a tank item and be a front lane later in the game instead of a damage threat. What can a behind Tristana do? Her late game is trash. She can't build tank. She can't split push and draw pressure because she won't draw more than one person and that one person can *easily dispatch of her.* Honestly, no, its really *not* easier to play the range in the range vs Melee match up considering how squishy you are, how susceptible to ganks you are, how easily you are countered by literally an item and a half(Ninja Tabbies and a Phage), how perfectly you have to space yourself to avoid being caught in the higher base damage and higher base statted melee champion's combo, how often the jungler will sit top and just and camp you. Maybe don't talk the melee vs range match up when YOU NEVER PLAY THE RANGED PART OF IT. And maybe don't talk about a champion *at all if you don't play her.* Like seriously, have you any idea how frustrating it is to play a champion that everyone complains about to the point that Riot systematically nerfs and warps her identity? Tristana is not the champion I started playing four years ago. Her late game has been destroyed, her early game is the most feast or famine of any supposed "hyper carry", her mid game is a nose dive into the abyss, and if you happen to lose early, guess what? You might as well not play at all. You're not coming back. Like I said, if you're going to complain about the champion, maybe actually play her or do real research on her.
Kanzler (NA)
: What solo lane have you seen Ezreal in lately? Kai'sa doesn't have a dash besides her ult which requires a target with her passive and has really low range anyway. Vayne sometimes goes top, but gets smashed by any toplaner with the ability to get on top of her. Plus the solo long lane makes it very unsafe for her to push without a jungler to baby her. Tristana is currently the only abuser at the moment. Her early range was already nerfed a while ago. 500 range really feels awful because pretty much every mobility/engage spell has a longer range than that.
I would even say "abuser" very loosely. Her Winrate in solo lanes is only 46-47%. She's not breaking anything and if she is winning, its against bad players who don't respect her level 2 all in.
: Adcs complain when something else is best in their role because that’s the ONLY role they are allowed in by riot. Any time an adc (with a few select exceptions) becomes good in another role, riot GUTS them. Examples Ezreal mid Ezreal jungle Lucien mid Vayne top Varus mid Kog mid
Just wait, they're going to gut Trist too for having a 46-47% WR mid or top. But its okay for mages and bruisers to run bot lane for half a season with limited nerfs to them... And don't even get me started on how Riot has systematically nerfed every ranged top laner because top mains want to whine constantly.
KazKaz (OCE)
: ADCs in solo lanes need to go
Sure. ADCs in a solo lane can go. But that means no one can venture out of their predetermined lane. So that means, yes, get mage's out of the support role where they never belonged in the first place. Its not even like any mage has ever gotten nerfed for going bot. Its not like *any champion ever has been nerfed for going bot.* But man, ADCs have been nerfed everytime they venture out of their predetermined lane. For that matter, so have supports. Its not diversity unless every class has freedom to go where ever. #GiveMeRealDiversity
: The timing should rarely happen. Too inconsistent to be reliable, like with Riven Renekton E interactions. I've only ever seen her jump cancel my E, never the reverse. And darius ALWAYS takes ghost. Dude, honestly it sounds like you don't play a lot of top given how popular Darius is, and that literally 90% of them take ghost/flash...
So you acknowledge that Darius takes ghost and yet you're still having trouble running down a champion whose only escape is a 22 second CD. And you're just timing it poorly; you're going to grab her and then she's jumping. She spams her W key for the second after your pull lets up and she's allowed to jump then. If you grab her in the wind up or while she's in flight, the jump is canceled, same with a Thresh hook. And even then, she just used her jump to escape; she won't be getting a reset and *you just said that Darius takes Ghost/Flash*. Just run her ass down. Its a long lane and with Ghost, *you will catch up.* And no, I don't play a lot of top but you don't sound like you play a lot of Tristana either; its not stopping you from trying to say she's broken or impossible to deal with. Maybe try playing her from time to time bot lane or mid so you can have a better understanding of how her kit interacts with the rest of the map.
: You can not by yes, literally not farming and backing off for a few seconds. That's literally all you have to do. It's a long as fuck CD and costs a decent chunk of mana on a champion who has a very tiny mana pool. You build tabbies as well. If she isnt getting to free stack her bomb on you, shes just wasting mana and CDs. She doesnt have 100% up time on it and again, if you're just standing there like an idiot taking the damage, it's not the enemy champion or your opponent's fault. It is literally yours.
She does damage as a champion intended to do damage by doing her full damage combo on someone who stays in range for her to proc E apparently at level 1. You know, when she totally has her full combo. Your narrative was that she's half healthing you at level 1 with her E, to which I've already debunked that if she is, you're just standing there like a knot on a log getting AA'd to death to let her charge it up. Now you've moved the goal post of your argument, I assume, because Tristana isn't one of those champions who gets to have two abilities at level 1. To which, I again say, if she's getting free AA procs on you for her E, you're not respecting her damage. And if she's jumping in and doing her full combo, you're losing the arms race to level 2 and not backing off, something you would do with *any other opponent getting level 2 first.* I'm sorry, do you lose the race to level 2 and stick around with a renekton/riven? Secondly, for later levels, if she's doing that to you, she's jumping under your tower and many *many* top laners have displacements that they can use to stop her second jump... leaving her probably under your tower and definitely in melee range with you. Just a few I can think off the top of my head who have displacements: {{champion:122}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:164}}(her dash actually does displace *and* stun) {{champion:31}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:78}}(actually fucks her over hard but no one wants to play her for some reason) {{champion:92}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:27}} (like Poppy, also fucks her hard if he is good with his flip and ground goo) And these are all champions who can do it with a basic ability. But you're telling me that you play *none of them on this list?* And I say she's jumping you under turret because unless, for some strange reason, you're getting a tiamat to push your lane out, you probably froze on her outside of your turret. She's probably a sitting duck for your jungler to come top and murder her. There is no reason for a good top laner to lose to a Tristana unless the Tristana is like... god like. And its proveable that top laners are *not* losing to Tristana's. You know, a 47% WR is not positive.
: You can't bait her jump out if she's good, and the jump shouldn't be cancelled by E, as it's bufferable, meaning her E counters dar's E. Yes, Tabis and Phage and phase rush lets you catch her, but, by the time you have those items, the lane's basically decided. Her weakness as a ranged champ is that she has worse wave control, but she has longer range, and harasses you from further away. It creates a cs (and sometimes xp, if no jgl interferes) deficit. And she scales, while you don't. Any tristana worth their salt will shit on Darius, just like any ranged top laner would. The only way ranged champs lose to dar is because they get cocky and don't know what they're doing in solo lanes. That or jgl interference, which swings both ways. You're laning phase is invalidated, and you don't outscale. It'd be fine if one or the other were weak, but she has both.
Darius's E is a displacement. A pull specifically. If she doesn't time her jump well or you time your E well, it 100% cancels it. Displacements(Knock backs, Pulls, Knock ups, Suspensions) all interrupt her jump. Snares and stuns unless otherwise stated do not. So yes, you 100% can bait her jump and then run her ass down. I've seen it and had it happen often enough in my time playing her that I know better. Take ghost even, if you want.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-07T01:43:43.660+0000) > > So wait you're standing in range of her with her E on you just taking the AAs to charge it up and you're mad it does damage? Wat. What the hell do you expect to happen if you just let her free stack her e? I'm sorry but if you're letting your opponent do shit like that, it isnt the champion being broken, it's your brain. how can i not? she's being played top, outside of just not farming i will always have to be in her range if i want to CS
You can not by yes, literally not farming and backing off for a few seconds. That's literally all you have to do. It's a long as fuck CD and costs a decent chunk of mana on a champion who has a very tiny mana pool. You build tabbies as well. If she isnt getting to free stack her bomb on you, shes just wasting mana and CDs. She doesnt have 100% up time on it and again, if you're just standing there like an idiot taking the damage, it's not the enemy champion or your opponent's fault. It is literally yours.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T18:39:23.837+0000) > > Wow, the irony of this reply is hilarious. I'm so sorry you can't see it. I mean, I literally just linked sources to my facts(not opinions, my facts) and you just completely ignore it. And you never once call out which of my facts apparently false, lol. Okay, Mr. Hypocrite. Glad to know you can debate with the best of us and you don't totally turn tail and run when indisputable facts are placed in front of your face. > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Every time i see the little bitch she goes 20/1 at worst, honestly anyone who plays her is a scumbag, her E takes half my fucking health bar level 1 for christ sakes and thats with double armor runes, also win rates mean nothing, akali proved that
So wait you're standing in range of her with her E on you just taking the AAs to charge it up and you're mad it does damage? Wat. What the hell do you expect to happen if you just let her free stack her e? I'm sorry but if you're letting your opponent do shit like that, it isnt the champion being broken, it's your brain.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Why do you even play immobile ADCs
Because Jinx is flat out better than most of the mobile carries. She literally only needs two items and she nukes whole teams... I think you're just out of practice because, honestly, I find Jinx players don't even need to be good as long as they get Runnans and IE. Varus is trash though, I'll agree with that one. Jhin and Twitch are also fine. But Jinx is giga broken.
: Urgot gets shit on by every ranged champion. His range is practically melee when facing ranged champions. His slow isnt reliable enough to catch rangeds and his dash is short and has a long windup time to the point that you might as well walk if you arent in range to knockup. He gets half movement speed from phage so he cant really catch anyone. Plus his w slows him so he cant stay in ranged champions faces. He builds frozen mallet third, if at all. He can build tabis but only after cleaver cuz delaying it isnt worth any immediate advantage he can get by taking tabis. You cant run people down with urgot. Its just... No. Like, sure, yiu can ult the tristana and run at her but all she does is w away. _bUt bAiT oUt HeR dAsH fIrSt!!!1!_ Urgot doesnt have a way of baiting out her dash. Purge doesnt GIVE 40%ms. It SLOWS youand gives you some slow resist. You will never get into range to e a tristana as urgot, except if you flash on her. If you do, she just ukts you away. Also, sure you can run her down after an item and a half and full boots. But you cant really do that in lane where she kind of gets to freefarm (hypercary btw), deny you, poke you and take plates. JuSt GaNk HeR, sHe Is VuLnErAbLe To GaNkS pRe 6, amirite?
Its not an item and a half. Its either an item or half an item. YOu don't need both. One gives you MS, one gives you an AA slow. And again, the slow is not unsubstantial on his Q; its 65% at max rank. You slow her, she's forced to jump away and guys what, at that point, she has to be zoned for the next 22 seconds because if she walks up, you can dash on her and murder her. You're also ignoring that her jump is *interrupted by Urgot's dash*. And even then, Urgot is *one* champion who, *gasp* has a counter. You can literally pick any other jugger and counter her. But you just want to whine. And yes, actually, she is vulnerable to ganks presix. She's literally a free kill if you manage your wave worth a damn and call for ganks. Also, yes, definitely a hyper carry with a WR by Game Length like this: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana What a hyper carry, her WR is *lower late game than it is early.* That's how hyper carries work, right? Iunno, let me look at a different hyper carry. Let's try Jinx. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jinx Oh weird... her late game WR is higher than her early... Well just a fluke! Let's try Vayne! https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/vayne Oh shit, no, Vayne's is *also* higher late game. Maybe I'm just stupid and don't know what a hyper carry is. I thought a hyper carry was a high scaling champion who's weak early game was made up for by having a stellar late game. But you seem to believe that this gutted, over nerfed champion called Tristana who barely gets a 50% WR late game is a hyper carry. That's *super* weird since her WR by game length looks like, well... a lane bully or early game champions. Hmm... Lemme just look at Draven; he's a lane bully right? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/draven Oh. Weird. Draven's WR by Game Length looks a lot more like Trist's. Its as though she and Draven are basically the same playstyle in that they have to win hard early or lost hard late. Hmmm... Definitely doesn't sound like a hyper carry to me. But what do I know. I'm not a bIgBrAiNtOpMaIn who cries about having to deal with other champs besides bruisers and juggers being in my lane. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Remember guys, 50% WR late game compared to a 60% WR early totally means that you're a hyper carry. Just ignore the horrendous power creep and the multiple nerfs that Tristana has had happen to her and around her. I'll ask again: Why the hell would you play Tristana for late game when Jinx gets more range earlier(lvl 9, 700 Range vs level 18 for 661 range :thinking:) and has AoE rocket crits to nuke down the entire enemy team with. It doesn't matter if she's less mobile; she flat out does more damage at a safer distance with an easier combo(turn on rockets and right click > Pressing Q+E and praying that the 1 person with your bomb doesn't get out of your AA range). Or Twitch who gets AoE, a better burst combo, and true damage. Or Vayne who has True Damage, Stealth, and an AD steroid. Or Kai'sa who has build diversity and mixed damage... Tristana hasn't been a late game carry in ages. They murdered that side of her. If she can't have late game, she can go fucking top or mid, thanks.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T17:58:51.648+0000) > > ??? False facts? There are no false facts here. I literally pulled everything from stat websites or *Tristana's own kit descriptions.* I would *love* if you could please highlight one inaccurate fact so I can soundly prove you wrong. I would even provide sources for you. > > And no, she's being played in every lane because she's not a Flavor of the Month thanks to some dick head in proplay. She's not got above a 50% WR in ANY OF THE THREE LANES. And since you're so keen on saying I'm pulling shit out of my ass, here is her OP.GG stats for each lane: > > Bot Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/adc A juicy, spicy 49.34% WR. This is actually her highest WR. > > Mid Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/mid Wow, its even better! 46%! Super broken, let me tell you. > > Top Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/top Watch out guys, super broken champion here at 47% WR. > > Please, I'd love love love for you to provide any fact from my original post that you believe(falsely) is incorrect. :) This 1 million point Tristana main would *love* for you to tell her how she doesn't know her champion. Ah alright now I get it, no reason to talk to you anymore, your bias will always favor trist no matter how hard facts slap you in the face
Wow, the irony of this reply is hilarious. I'm so sorry you can't see it. I mean, I literally just linked sources to my facts(not opinions, my facts) and you just completely ignore it. And you never once call out which of my facts apparently false, lol. Okay, Mr. Hypocrite. Glad to know you can debate with the best of us and you don't totally turn tail and run when indisputable facts are placed in front of your face. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T14:05:00.672+0000) > > "Weak Early Game." > > Sivir's WR Pre25 Minutes: 53% > Jinx Pre25 Minutes: 53% > Kaisa Pre25 Minutes: 50% > Twitch Pre25 Minutes: 49% > > Yes. So weak. > > And no, she actually cannot duel Lucian early game. His double passive means that he will out put more damage than her at levels 1-5. In a 1v1, unless Trist is fed beyond belief, she will lose to a Lucian every time. > > Also, she does have an exploitable weakness, its just for some reason everyone always ignores it. I mean, its not if her WR post 25 minutes doesn't drop 51% to 47%. Its as if being a champion who is only good at taking towers in the mid game and has no meaningful way to deal with tanks means that you suck then. I also like how you're complaining about her getting 110% AS at level 13 when Jinx gets 700 range, AoE Critting rockets at *level 9*. You literally don't even *need* AS when you can just AoE Crit an entire team down. But sure, Tristana's 51% early game WR that transitions into a 47% post 25 minute WR is more problematic than the 53% WR Jinx who's post 25 minute WR Is only 1% lower. *And* she scales better than Tristana. > > But yeah, its totally not you being bad at all for not exploiting her incredibly bad mid game, the fact that she can't not push or freeze, the fact that she actually cannot farm under turret either(meaning you should probably be pushing her in), the fact that her low range early game means she can't avoid being poked out of lane by a Sona let alone the ever common mage supports, the fact that her only forms of escape are long CDs(22 second jump, 100 second Ult, 300 second Flash), that she's incredibly gated by long CD's(Q is affectively a 9 second CD post level 13; it spends most of the early game as a 13 second CD, her jump has already been discussed multiple times, her E gets down to a 14 second CD at the lowest and at the lowest her ult is 100 seconds), her mid game teamfights suck(she doesn't have big AoE like some other hyper carry ADCs and her E is single target meaning it isn't very good for teamfights in the least and she usually has, at most, IE and a Zeal at the start of mid game meaning she doesn't have a ton of AS or damage yet), her AS growth is one of *the worst for an ADC's in the game* meaning late game her AS without Q will be still lower than any of the other ADCs, the only way she wins game is to win lane and she *has to go in in order to hope to gain a kill*, if she loses her lane, she's not coming back, that's it, she's done... > > The absolute *list* of weaknesses this champion has is staggering. If you're so bad you can't find them yourself, that's a you problem and not a problem with the champion. my god, your prob the guy that compains the jungler ganked him for the 10th when your pushing to your enemies tower...eh? no reasoning, just trying to justify tristanas busted kit with false facts, you realize she's being played in every lane rn because she's so good, right?
??? False facts? There are no false facts here. I literally pulled everything from stat websites or *Tristana's own kit descriptions.* I would *love* if you could please highlight one inaccurate fact so I can soundly prove you wrong. I would even provide sources for you. And no, she's being played in every lane because she's not a Flavor of the Month thanks to some dick head in proplay. She's not got above a 50% WR in ANY OF THE THREE LANES. And since you're so keen on saying I'm pulling shit out of my ass, here is her OP.GG stats for each lane: Bot Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/adc A juicy, spicy 49.34% WR. This is actually her highest WR. Mid Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/mid Wow, its even better! 46%! Super broken, let me tell you. Top Lane: https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/top Watch out guys, super broken champion here at 47% WR. Please, I'd love love love for you to provide any fact from my original post that you believe(falsely) is incorrect. :) This 1 million point Tristana main would *love* for you to tell her how she doesn't know her champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MJiHAWjQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-06T14:37:37.760+0000) He did. How do you think he got all those bites? His biological brother, Remy, beat him up real bad, so we had to remove him from the cage. One of Rufus' legs was actually so infected that he wasn't using it to walk(it got infected through a massive bite under his arm). He's doing better, though, but we might have to change the arrangement we currently have to keep them from fighting in the future. They are in a smaller cage due to Rufus' disability(he is half blind so he has his head cocked to one side all the time, which results in him falling over frequently, if he were in a bigger cage he could get injured from falling), but we might just have to take the risk and get a bigger one for them. There's also Twitch, who is by himself at the moment(we just got him and he was in quarantine for a while, so he is in a separate cage next to Remy & Rufus so they can see, smell, and talk to each other so they can get used to each other).
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MJiHAWjQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T14:47:58.382+0000) > > He did. How do you think he got all those bites? His biological brother, Remy, beat him up real bad, so we had to remove him from the cage. One of Rufus' legs was actually so infected that he wasn't using it to walk(it got infected through a massive bite under his arm). He's doing better, though, but we might have to change the arrangement we currently have to keep them from fighting in the future. They are in a smaller cage due to Rufus' disability(he is half blind so he has his head cocked to one side all the time, which results in him falling over frequently, if he were in a bigger cage he could get injured from falling), but we might just have to take the risk and get a bigger one for them. > > There's also Twitch, who is by himself at the moment(we just got him and he was in quarantine for a while, so he is in a separate cage next to Remy & Rufus so they can see, smell, and talk to each other so they can get used to each other). :c That's terrible. I don't know what happens with rat siblings but sometimes they're just little assholes to each other... We had a similar problem where we had three girls and they'd beat up on their smaller sister a bit. There were no injuries or blood so we thought we'd just watch them and they were just working dominance out. Apparently not; they killed her which is upsetting... I'm glad that you caught it early enough for Rufus though. <3 He's such a cute baby! And boys tend to be cuddlier than girls, in my experience. Girls just like to be into everything, haha. We had a rat named Despereaux; he would sleep in my hoody when we ran errands with him.
: Rufus Is The Best Boi
N'aaaw. c: What a cute babu. Does Rufus have a cage mate? Rats tend to need friends or lots of attention or they get sad and unhappy.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-06T12:42:06.664+0000) > > ??? Are you an idiot? She's like a worse Draven; she needs to win her lane or she won't do anything. I play her all the time and I know that her late game isn't that good, even if she wins early. She gets hard out scaled. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Jinx gets better, longer range than her at level 9. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Kaisa and Vayne have better mixed damage and deal with bruiser's better. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Twitch has a better burst combo for teamfights. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Sivir has better AoE and pushing power and can facilitate her team better. > > Why would you play Tristana for late game when her WR past 35 minutes is actually *lower than her late game winrate* by a whole .5%. She isn't good at all points of the game. That require her to be good *ever.* If she doesn't win before 25 minutes, her WR drops to a 47%. It doesn't go up until extreme late game and even then it doesn't even pass her early game WR. > > She's an all or nothing champion. Either she shit stomps you for inting into her early or she just rolls over and does nothing for the rest of the game. > > TLDR: Tristana is fine and doesn't need a nerf. She scales harder then most, and on top of that, one again, SHE IS A LANE BULLY, she doesn't suffer from the weak early games of say jinx/vayne/sivir, she actually can even duel early lucian, basically, shes a good overall champ with little to no consequences to playing her, which is the problem, while most adcs at least have some exploitable weakness....she doesnt, assassin wants to assassinate her? nope, she pressed R, juggernaut going for her, W, wanna duel her? well she gets 110% attack speed at the press of a button, this is the problem
"Weak Early Game." Sivir's WR Pre25 Minutes: 53% Jinx Pre25 Minutes: 53% Kaisa Pre25 Minutes: 50% Twitch Pre25 Minutes: 49% Yes. So weak. And no, she actually cannot duel Lucian early game. His double passive means that he will out put more damage than her at levels 1-5. In a 1v1, unless Trist is fed beyond belief, she will lose to a Lucian every time. Also, she does have an exploitable weakness, its just for some reason everyone always ignores it. I mean, its not if her WR post 25 minutes doesn't drop 51% to 47%. Its as if being a champion who is only good at taking towers in the mid game and has no meaningful way to deal with tanks means that you suck then. I also like how you're complaining about her getting 110% AS at level 13 when Jinx gets 700 range, AoE Critting rockets at *level 9*. You literally don't even *need* AS when you can just AoE Crit an entire team down. But sure, Tristana's 51% early game WR that transitions into a 47% post 25 minute WR is more problematic than the 53% WR Jinx who's post 25 minute WR Is only 1% lower. *And* she scales better than Tristana. But yeah, its totally not you being bad at all for not exploiting her incredibly bad mid game, the fact that she can't not push or freeze, the fact that she actually cannot farm under turret either(meaning you should probably be pushing her in), the fact that her low range early game means she can't avoid being poked out of lane by a Sona let alone the ever common mage supports, the fact that her only forms of escape are long CDs(22 second jump, 100 second Ult, 300 second Flash), that she's incredibly gated by long CD's(Q is affectively a 9 second CD post level 13; it spends most of the early game as a 13 second CD, her jump has already been discussed multiple times, her E gets down to a 14 second CD at the lowest and at the lowest her ult is 100 seconds), her mid game teamfights suck(she doesn't have big AoE like some other hyper carry ADCs and her E is single target meaning it isn't very good for teamfights in the least and she usually has, at most, IE and a Zeal at the start of mid game meaning she doesn't have a ton of AS or damage yet), her AS growth is one of *the worst for an ADC's in the game* meaning late game her AS without Q will be still lower than any of the other ADCs, the only way she wins game is to win lane and she *has to go in in order to hope to gain a kill*, if she loses her lane, she's not coming back, that's it, she's done... The absolute *list* of weaknesses this champion has is staggering. If you're so bad you can't find them yourself, that's a you problem and not a problem with the champion.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trGFG57a,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-06T08:49:01.070+0000) > > Bcs she isn't anywhere near the power of super scaling beasts like these 2? > > (also no J4 nerf...) She's a hyper carrying lane bully, she has no bad points in the game rn, in fact, she excels at all of them and honestly, needs nerfs
[removed by moderation] She's like a worse Draven; she needs to win her lane or she won't do anything. I play her all the time and I know that her late game isn't that good, even if she wins early. She gets hard out scaled. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Jinx gets better, longer range than her at level 9. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Kaisa and Vayne have better mixed damage and deal with bruiser's better. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Twitch has a better burst combo for teamfights. Why would you play Tristana for late game when Sivir has better AoE and pushing power and can facilitate her team better. Why would you play Tristana for late game when her WR past 35 minutes is actually *lower than her late game winrate* by a whole .5%. She isn't good at all points of the game. That require her to be good *ever.* If she doesn't win before 25 minutes, her WR drops to a 47%. It doesn't go up until extreme late game and even then it doesn't even pass her early game WR. She's an all or nothing champion. Either she shit stomps you for inting into her early or she just rolls over and does nothing for the rest of the game. TLDR: Tristana is fine and doesn't need a nerf.
Reksee (NA)
: I used to defend Yuumi when people said her gameplay was toxic...
I'm more frustrated by the fact that they actively nerfed and changed her to be less interactive in lane. Like, she used to get mana back for jumping off so she was *encouraged to jump off more often.* She doesn't get that anymore. Why would she bother jumping off? Its not going to benefit her and she can just sit here and heal and Q.
: Trist main right? How about yes? She would be less noobish champion and requires at least 1 brain cell to play. Her key identity is longest AA range with the most powerful late game
No it isn't. It's literally the resetting jumps. Her late game is trash. You can literally see that by the fact her wr based on game length barely moves at all post 35 minutes. She also hasnt had the longest AA range in a long time. She has to wait until level 18 for something that Jinx gets, better, at level 9 and for something Cait has, better at level 1. She gets hard out scaled now by the absolute multitude of better late game ADCs. Jinx, Twitch, Vayne, Kaisa all have much better winrates than her at the late points of the game. Where she does shine because they've forced her into this position is early game. Her highest wr is early game, pre 25 minutes. Her identity as a hyper carry has been gutted and all she's left with her resetting jumps. Even if she was still a hyper carry, only an idiot would have the name Tristana in front of them and think,"herpaderp long AA range lul." No literally everyone thinks of her resetting jumps, which was what used to make her amazing late game. Late Game Tristana is dead though. She cant AoE Crit people, she can't burn down tanks with true damage, and she can't provide much needed mixed damage and build flexibility. She cant even have the longest AA range anymore. Edit: And if you can gather I'm a Tristana main, why the hell would you argue with me? I've obviously played more of her, know more about her, and understand her current state of balance better than some top lane main who has never breathed in bot lane for more than 20 games top in the last season.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pMJO5Lnx,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T18:32:33.732+0000) > > I'm sorry, are they not still playing mages bot in proplay? I'm sorry, are mages not *still played as support in solo queue?* The only time that ADCs have ever complained and gotten something fixed about their lane was when Riot gutted the shit out of them on 8.11 in one of the most lazy, half assed patches in existence. And even then, when people complained about mages bot, exactly 0 mages got nerfed. Meaning you can *still* play them there and see less whining out of an ADC main than you would out of a top main if someone *dared* to play a mage top. Or if tanks are meta. Or if you play any kind of ADC top. No, it only has to be bruisers; only bruisers can have top. Nevermind its *mostly bruisers who jungle.* The only mage bot I ever see is the rare Velkoz.
> [{quoted}](name=Magnesium14,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pMJO5Lnx,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T02:02:13.567+0000) > > The only mage bot I ever see is the rare Velkoz. Lux, I just saw a veigar a few games ago, apparently Swain has the highest wr currently bor, brand, karma, vel'koz, zyra.
: > counterplay: have a jungler And where did i mention darius? He is evem on the better side of dealing with ranged champions when it comes to juggernauts. What is urgot supposed to do? Roll over and die? One of many examples
You mean, Urgot who is also ranged, has a slow, a dash, and can also build Phage/Frozen Mallet to chase people down and isn't harmed by building Tabbies either? Literally do the same thing that Darius does and run her down. If you weren't referencing Darius though, maybe not reply to a conversation that literally is answering someone's question about *Darius.* Urgot: Build Tabbies, Phage or Frozen Mallet, use your 800 range Q that slows and has an AoE or your purge which gives you 40% MS, or your 475 range dash(which will also interrupt her dash, btw), and run her down with your CC, range, and aoe damage. Nasus: Build Tabbies and Phage/Frozen Fist, use your 600 range targeted 47-90% slow, and run her ass down. Garen: Build tabbies and phage/ghostblade, use your Q which gives you 30% bonus move speed and run her down. Literally, all any Jugger needs is to use their skills and their ability to build Tabbies/Phage and run down Tristana. It doesn't change much between them. They all have reasonable ways to get onto any target in a 1v1 scenario, in a long lane, with tabbies and phage to help them. That's what Juggers *do*. They run you down but suck at teamfights. That's all their playstyle is. Can I run you down? Are you by yourself? I'm gonna run you down and *kill you right now.*
: > counterplay: have a jungler Thats not how anything should work
Good job ignoring the rest of my post. You know, the bit about Phage and Tabbies making her useless and giving you the ability to run her down, the fact that the pull interrupts her jump, and the fact that she's always pushing in a long lane there by continuing to facilitate this, Just Run her down mentality. And in this case, if you aren't good enough to bait out her 22 second jump and then run her ass down with your insane movement speed and innate tankiness, yes, having a jungler is a prime way for how things work. She literally can't freeze and top lane is a long lane. She is squishy, her only escapes pre six are a 22 second jump and her flash. Gank her pre six and murder her ass because she can't help her own pushing and she can't get close enough early game to AA harass under turret or she'll risk getting dragged under the turret itself; Darius pull is more than her AA range until level three when her range is 541. And by then, its simply taking two to three steps forward and casting your Apprehend while she's winding her jump up to get away from you. Oh shit, now she's got a 22 second CD and is under your turret. She either has to flash and hope that she does it before you get your Crippling Strike off or she just has to roll over and accept her fate. Honestly, it isn't even necessary to have a jungler if you have half a brain as Darius. But if you don't, a Jungler will help cover up your own ineptitude.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pMJO5Lnx,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-05T15:16:24.856+0000) > > I'd be okay with them removing it. We'd have less whiners playing then. :) You say that as if ADCs never have bitched their asses off to getting things removed from the game *cough* mages bot.
> [{quoted}](name=Raeni Sun,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pMJO5Lnx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-08-05T17:13:43.220+0000) > > You say that as if ADCs never have bitched their asses off to getting things removed from the game *cough* mages bot. I'm sorry, are they not still playing mages bot in proplay? I'm sorry, are mages not *still played as support in solo queue?* The only time that ADCs have ever complained and gotten something fixed about their lane was when Riot gutted the shit out of them on 8.11 in one of the most lazy, half assed patches in existence. And even then, when people complained about mages bot, exactly 0 mages got nerfed. Meaning you can *still* play them there and see less whining out of an ADC main than you would out of a top main if someone *dared* to play a mage top. Or if tanks are meta. Or if you play any kind of ADC top. No, it only has to be bruisers; only bruisers can have top. Nevermind its *mostly bruisers who jungle.*
: What's the counterplay to trist as Darius. You can't even farn easily in the mu. Even worse than trust is Caitlin who outright stops you from even getting xp and has better wave control than autopushing trist
Ninja Tabis and Phage? .-. I've literally had so many Darius just run me down and I not be able to do any damage back because they got Ninja Tabis and bonus health from phage. This isn't even addressing the fact that his pull interrupts her jump(which is 22 seconds long and maxed *last*) or the fact that her E makes her constantly push meaning she's easy to gank in a long lane. You can literally bait her jump out, proc your phage, and run her down with your jungler pre six. IDK why you'd have a hard time with this as I've seen multiple good Darius's do this exact thing.
: My yearly Tristana Post: Solo Lane Tristana
Honestly, I would love for Trist Mid to continue being a thing. Its the most fun I've had with League in ages. Playing her bot lane has been rough and exhausting ever since patch 8.11 and, honestly, ever since they nerfed her base range. She gets poked out hard by a lot of other champions which nullifies the only way she can really get ahead and be relevant. At least in a solo lane, there's only one opponent and they have to choose between hitting her with their spells or farming with them, which is a lot of which makes mages fair mid lane. That active choice between trading with their spells or farming with them. Its part of why mage supports are so problematic to me; they can free spam without having to worry about losing gold. That is an issue and removes some of the actual real counter play from them. That said, this is a well thought out post that summarizes basically what ADC players had been saying around the time 8.11 dropped last year; diversity isn't just allowing other champions to be bot lane. Its allowing bot lane champions to be in solo lanes as well.
Myrmiron (EUW)
: Since Riot is removing things that have no relevance to SR and a declining player base
I'd be okay with them removing it. We'd have less whiners playing then. :)
: I would just remove her CD resets on W. At least for assists. Its already hard to kill her wheb she jumps all over the place. Make her less forgiving
So... basically remove a key identity feature of the champion? How about no.
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OtterlyLost

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