Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 12
Hi. Will there be considerations to remove Syndra's post-ultimate dark spheres? Specifically the ones that land on the ground, and provide a massive AOE follow up stun. While initially to give a good follow up for her, this secondary niche has become the main 'attraction' to her ultimate--one of the most powerful single target nukes in the game. It's becoming considered a 'good idea' to purposefully throw away her damage potential in favor of the wide area stun. To me, this smacks of a secondary failsafe becoming more powerful than the actual intended use of the ability.
: I always considered her younger, hence her involvement in the war wasn't necessary, she was too young or not born at the time. The Time Prison didn't seem out of place until you mentioned it, and I can definitely see where you're coming from. That doesn't bother me as much however: my main issue is with the way her powers and motivations are handled. As you said, this subtle shift in her powers makes restricting her powers inherently the right thing to do, since it poses such a danger to literally every living thing, including Syndra herself. What I liked about Syndra was she was immensely powerful, but not inherently harmful. She's someone that's very naturally talented, and even very ambitious, but not very "coachable". No one attempts to help her improve infinitely, instead going by a "balance in all things" Ionian philosophy and viewing that limitless potential as in need of limit. She's very specifically an Ionian outcast; she doesn't fit in with Ionia's ideas of balance. If I had to use really limited words to describe her theme and personality, I would say "unlimited power and desire to use it". Her bio and story, while entertaining, didn't capture that for me. You do a great job of detailing the way I (and I think many others) really like Syndra's mindset and associated powers.
Age is a contentious issue, as I've often pegged her around 25-30; so well suited to herself, and just now seriously committing down her established path. The war involvement has always been a big questionmark, even back during her original release. The hubbub was she was off training/in isolation from the war, so wasn't a direct participant. This ultimately reinforced the "so, she does nothing at all?" issue with her. I think having her have some presence in the war has merit, but obviously nowhere to the degree of Irelia or Karma. Consider the ramifications of Noxus getting pushed out of one particular section by Syndra, and unable to gain a foothold/attack through it freely. We then add on that Syndra deliberately chose not to help traditionalist leaders, but perhaps opened her land to refugees. Maybe she even snubbed Karma's troops but let Irelia through conditionally. It's a tangled mess of political intrigue waiting to happen, but ultimately she had no fateful impact on the war itself. It can also further solidify her presence in Ionia as a champion/political/ideological power. Versus walking back in on Ionia and finding it an absolute mess because she was out getting ice cream, or something.
: I dunno, I never liked Syndra's old lore, in such that she was "The most powerful thing ever and it was only a matter of time before she got strong enough to destroy whatever she wanted." People who crave power for the sake of power, and who practice little to no restraint or have a "do what I say or I'll nuke you" motivation fall really flat for me. Syndra is defined by one thing only- how powerful she is at the time. It was the same problem as old varus lore in that it was a great explanation of motivation, but there was no potential for story. We know how it ends. In varus' case it was either he killed all the noxians or he died trying. In Syndra's case it was she either never interacted with the outside world, became powerful enough to destroy everything because of her lack of empathy or attachment to anything save her own power, or she got killed by something stronger. I don't really have high hopes for her as a character, and I know this is a very controversial opinion, but she just doesn't seem intriguing at all. She's a walking doomsday clock with nothing else going for her.
I'll agree with, what I believe is your point, about those who are "top tier" powerful typically being very boring. As a consequence of their power, writers and creators often ignore many, many other grounding considerations. Just because the First World Countries have nuclear weapons suddenly doesn't mean issues of logistics, ethics, morals, eating food, seeking further advancement, etc, stop mattering. In utilizing Syndra's "limitless power" potential, we could say: she might become powerful enough to objectively defeat everyone, ever. And it sounds very boring, because it looks like she'll do that in the current canon in like 5 years or something. Dragonball Z fighting is fun to watch but not much else. Now, if we frame her as a human being (sleeping, eating, fears, loves, hates, dreams, etc) who suddenly has access to a kind of power no one else does (in a setting full of magic), we can start drawing interesting stories. That her limitless potential exists opens doors for her at different stages in her life. Single handedly trying to start a cultural uprising through her own power of personality now offers a compelling story mechanism. She's not going to automatically convince people; she has to make decisions on how, if any. Figuring out how to wield her power, and what decisions to make with it: maybe she leans toward destruction as the best answer. Maybe she figures out how to heal Ionia's war scars, or something else. Hence, we're interested in where she goes and why with this unique setup of hers. The destination will, quite often, change on the way. There's no guarantee she'll fully realize herself or what form it will take in ... even what considerations she might need to do. Perhaps fully becoming transhuman is simply too much for her. Then you throw in Ionia and the rest. This is all very formulative years stuff right now, if done properly.
: You have very valid points here, and I too was left a little off after I read her new lore. I don’t really like that she has been painted as a true villain, one of the things that drew me to her in the first place was her not so black and white struggle against oppression. I also like your take on what her lore could be, very interesting. Honestly her old lore felt more true to me, but some will not like it, others will.
Ah, thank you. I think being antagonistic/villainous(?) can definitely be in the cards for her. Simply wanting to have a more liberal Ionia is anathema to every other Ionian character (given how intensely rigid/traditionalist their culture is). We might consider personal rights and freedoms as objectively good, but in the setting, it may not be. I'm very mindful of wanting her framing done in a way that supports the nuance of her reasons/situation. I've had some accuse me of "not wanting her to be evil", and other nonsense. One of my most favorite factions in narrative fiction is a cross-dimensional, all consuming plague that maliciously reprograms/reconstructs life into its image. They're super, unrepentantly evil ... and also very consistent with themselves about it. So that's more where I'm coming from: she wasn't an out-of-the-box cardboard villain initially, and it must be maintained/clarified/improved as such.
Rioter Comments
: Who is Syndra related to now? Are there any former ties with Karma and Irelia? And then after the rework of Irelia, I noticed on her biography page, Syndra disappeared
Literally nobody. She's out and free since the end of the war andddddddddd that's about it.
: Could the Spirit of Ionia be related to Karma?
No, she's the Avatar (from Avatar: The Last Airbender) now. The Spirit of Ionia is apparently the magical willforce of Ionia itself ... or something. Who knows.
: This is apparently a common misconception. We even reworded the bio to make it clearer, based on concerns that were voiced to the writer by (a VERY SMALL number of) players when the draft story was leaked... Syndra is not "stealing" magic. She is not pulling magic from other people, or the land, to fuel herself. The difference is in he term _leach_ (which is used in the lore) and _leech_ (which is not). They are very different in meaning. Her power is unique. It comes from within her. She doesn't fully understand it, because no one ever taught her how it works... but it seems to get stronger when she is in a "negative" state of mind. And when it is at its strongest, and she uses it and walks away, the residual effects on the magic of the land around her are quite disturbing. Without understanding how or why, she is creating "magical fallout" that permanently (?) sours the spiritual energies of the environment nearby. This is why, presumably, the Spirit of Ionia itself seems to have tried to imprison her. IMO, Syndra is now a character with a thematic conflict, where before she was rather lacking. She is a personification of not being aware of the consequences of your own actions, but also of the dangers of marginalising people who don't fit into the dominant worldview - can you imagine if she'd been born in Noxus with this power? They would have been very impressed, and nurtured and trained her, and let her loose on the front lines at the first opportunity. She's not evil. She was just dealt a difficult hand of cards, in the grand scheme of things.
Hello. As the bio and story is written, none of this impressed on the reader, as I've detailed above. If that is your goal, there is definite room to clarify it. Perhaps a bit more 'telling', in nature, but we're dealing with such vague impressions it's hard to form concrete bases on it. If the magic is her own, and the land is dying because her magic is "too great", then stating it directly and combining with colorful imagery can definitively land that idea. I will say I'm very confused by the statement she lacks thematic conflict. Her society is a very traditional one, with rigid thinking and behaviors toward magic. In her old lore, the fact she was so capable (and perhaps, as a woman nonetheless) but 'unguided', they tried to train her. Her mentor eventually betrayed her with a horrible ultimatum: submit to his view or be magically lobotomized out of her magic. Syndra wanted to fit in, but when her efforts failed, and she was threatened in this way, her conflict became "my personal freedom" versus "the demands of my culture". Syndra's limitless potential is what simply enabled her to make this conflict a very personal one. Is it truly a useful thematic conflict to simply her make her dangerously ignorant of what she can do? Is that not what someone like Annie, who is literally a child of great power, would be better suited for? It leaves a taste of utter incompetence to Syndra's character she didn't have before. It also does indicate that her power is--in an objective sense--such a problem that much of the moral nuance of her magic is stripped away. She is now more like an X-Men who has constant gamma radiation emission: no matter who she is as a person, her inherent nature is immensely dangerous and deadly. Transcendence, and her own personal growth, are now greatly in conflict with how she works. True, you could make a story about overcoming that, but it would resolve the conflict you seemingly want to perpetuate, which deadlocks her into this problem. Is the theme of "woman versus culture, with great personal power and responsibility" not sufficient? Edit: As an aside, some of these posters saying "Konigen did nothing wrong" essentially illuminates my point. Syndra is painted, objectively, to be a bad person/character, and no matter how wrongly treated she actually is, she's still in the wrong. The nuance of her prior lore even struggled against this and *it was there*, so the removal of such details can be seen as having an immediate impact on her perception.
: based on my arguements throughout this whole thread, i wont argue anymore, in fact, i'm just a semi-syndra main (PS, this is just my dummy account so don't look at my anymore) so if purely syndra mains hated this, i respect that.
That's fair, no worries here. I hope you have a good day!
: first of all, syndra was lucky to have a full color story unlike other champs that has only their bios updated. And in her color story, the point of it was to tell the readers one greater point of her life in the lore by escaping/breaking the dreaming loop and getting back in action to avenge her ideals. And lastly, as to why they ended her story like that is to have the readers theorize a lot more about her character and whats the thing she will do next. You might never know, she might receive a comic story telling us what she will do next in the future. Don't be greedy by getting all the infos about her in just one sitting, you're lucky enough to see her updated unlike other champs who didn't have a new lore yet. The only thing that riot needs to do now is to held a Syndra Lore AMA for us to ask them about the nature of her magic, etc.
>first of all, syndra was lucky to have a full color story unlike other champs that has only their bios updated. Even if the actual content with her is basically filler? Let's compare to the Pillars of Strength, which I really, really enjoyed. Darius, Swain, and Faceless show up as embodiments of the Noxian government. They are fulfilling their purpose, but not overpowering the story--they form a functional, meaningful component for the random NPC to interact with. Taking them away hurts the story (to the point it loses value). Syndra is mostly in dream recollection mode for 80% of the story. Towards the end, she wakes up, is mad at what happens, then rips Fae'lor fortress into the sky with her. Off she vanishes. We basically learn: A) Syndra is thrown into time prison B) Syndra is awake now, before current time line. C) Oh hey here's her fortress. It's different from the monastery she ripped up from the earth before. You know, the one line sentence detailing it because that's all it needed. Syndra herself could recount the acquisition of her fortress in one paragraph of dialogue, for example. Nothing about her is 'unique' to her in the dreaming pool, she's just the plot mcguffian of choice. Unlike say, Xerath, whose imprisonment was a nation-ending event and intimately tied him with another character (Renekton). Now if the Dreaming Pool centered on Syndra's struggle with her mentor, and the emotional/narrative important drama of that character defining moment, we'd have major meaningful material. It'd really be about her, what happened, how she behaved, and how the uplifting of her fortress ultimately meant.
: Just stopping by to tell you Vladimir's current lore isn't canon anymore buddy.
lol half the game isn't even canon anymore, but at least it can serve as kind of an example, I guess
: Except we know that Magic is more akin to a living, breathing spirit than just a force of nature. Ryze’s short story illustrates the proper understanding of magic as something that cannot be owned, or controlled, but can only be directed. So when Syndra focuses her power, she is powerful enough that she is effectively concentrating the magic within herself, not allowing it to flow through her, like breath, but constraining it and molding it into her orbs of pain. With that understanding, it’s clear how Syndra is both a tragic figure, and a powerful villain
Yes, the sink hole effect. This reinforces the theft of magic--by utilizing her power, she stops magic from going anywhere around her. Thus, she manipulates outside sources for power, rather than being internally driven by her own specific magic. This isn't inherently tragic; you can see things like this with Vladimir and he's no more tragic for it. Why in the world does she need to be a sinkhole? Why can she not, instead, be someone who acts like a fountain of magical power, a mortal walking the power to transcendence? Re-arranging the power of others is almost entirely what Xerath does with his theft of Ascension energy. It makes sense for him to work that way, it's part of his modus operandi. Syndra was always her own power source, now she is not.
: I think her new lore is more refreshing and good towards her character. And all of her elements that pertains her in her old lore is still there but more flesh out.
How is that, I ask? Much of her moral nuance is now gone--the threat of her teacher with lobotomy, and the vague, undefined nature of "absolute power", for example. We just see her killing her teacher (who, by all accounts, appears to be behaving "in the right") because she's mad he lied to her (something teachers can do). There is no quantifiable "if you don't obey, you're getting lobotomized", so she's in the wrong here (despite all the abuse she's suffered). Her power now actually functions like a black hole effect, creating magic-destroying properties (via theft of energy, suppression, whatever). Rather than act like a white hole, in which she grows with her own, self-contained power, she's objectively an active threat. It would be like an X-Men having the power of constant radiation emission--there is no nuance, they literally will kill everything around them. Transcendence or the depth of what she could do is not really detailed. Now everything is drawn in contrast to the fact she crushes magic/life around her by simply using her "natural talent". For the most part, they kept much of the structure of her old lore, but changed how the actual building works so much it's like saying both had I-Beams installed in the superstructure. Context changes everything.
: I think riot is setting her up for their **now** stories/ recent years stories considering how powerful she is. So the things you've mentioned might come in future stories. Just wait and see, plus, they're doing past events first (except some cases) before they proceed to continue her story or other champs stories. You might never know, she might be the anti-christ that will wreck ionia.
Basically, why was the dreaming pool written about her 'becoming free', and not about the effects of who she is and what she wants to do? Why does it not deal with these deep issues, like the nature of her magic and how she behaves with it? It's 7,000 words of some guy trying to keep his duty going, and she pops up just to lift a fortress and leave with it. Her actual role is so generic you could replace her with a void monster and still make that random character's story have meaning. So if they're writing for future stories, why skip this opportunity to well-round her design and show us? It's quite hard to bank promise on what might come in literally months or years later, and not the actual update she just received.
: New Syndra Lore
I'll put some of the other details as separate topics in this post here. --- > However, Syndra grew frustrated as, instead of gaining more control, over the years her magic seemed to weaken. Konigen now locked himself away each morning, meditating in solitude rather than teaching her anything new, and so she confronted him. His teeth gritted with exhaustion, he confessed that he was deliberately dampening her power, for her own safety. Such negativity had a strange, unpredictable effect on reality, and Syndra had grown far beyond his ability as a mentor. > >She felt more betrayed than she ever had before. Konigen tried to calm her, which only fueled her anger… and in that moment, his focus was lost. This section has a problem in that it doesn't really demonstrate Syndra trying to reason with her old mentor, or the magical lobotomy he threatened her with if she didn't obey. It paints her teacher as being in the right, absolutely, and not a moral gray zone of two extremes (victim and misguided enforcer). Overall, despite the relatively justified lashing out she has had because of her rough life, she is painted as being in the wrong here (objectively). The moral event horizon of his threat (lobotomy) and her response (killing him) was profoundly characterizing of her struggle. --- > Never had such negative energy been so concentrated in one place, and it was the Spirit of Ionia that swelled to counter it. The bedrock opened up beneath Syndra, dragging her down to a cavern deep underground—roots pulled her into a pool of living water to suppress her powers, and trap her in a magical slumber. > >Syndra dreamed for what seemed an eternity. Most of the world forgot she had ever existed. And Syndra is thrown into Time Prison, conveniently left to do nothing in a world moving around her. On its own, this has some potential, but I don't feel the trope works for her design or goals. She could've been involved/not involved in the Noxian Invasion, for example. She could've been doing her own thing, gathering incidental followers, etc, and forming a power base to fight the leaders of Ionia. But, this as written (along with the Dreaming Pool), basically means "hey, Syndra didn't actually do anything until the war ended". Which, I think, gives her about 10 years of stuff to do before current time period? Granted, things can happen here ... but she's starting from square one. More importantly, everyone she knew is now either very aged or dead, leaving her culturally stranded in a new world (especially post Noxus invasion). She has no attachments to anything in Ionia that can be seen. Her existence is about as meaningless in Ionia as it was before the update, which really does confuse me. Even if you didn't want her involved in the war (since it's the spotlight of people like Karma and Irelia), she could still be doing things elsewhere? She could be a threat on the horizon of Ionia as a homegrown issue, rather than a foreign power? I guess it could be said to paint her as a great threat, but by the bio's own admission, everyone forgot about her except this one random character Soraka talked to. It's ... What does this serve? If a story popped up saying what she did post awakening, then yeah, maybe it can work (ten years or more is generally enough time). As it is she's just left hanging out there, who knows doing what.
  Rioter Comments
: Off the top of my head? Omikayalan, the sacred grove from Ivern's story as well as the Garden of Forgetting from Ahri's would both be great additions to Ionia. I believe Bard's mountain is missing, and the Tomb of Ne'Zuk (Where Ezreal got his gauntlet) is as well. Seeing Syndra's floating fortress moving around similar to how Bandle city does would also be pretty neat. In general I think it would be great to be able to see all the places that are tied to central stories/media, especially if they linked to them, although I can understand how much that would clutter the map. With clutter in mind I would really like to see the places from champion stories that are only partially explained, but with more detail when you click on them. The Garden of Forgetting being a perfect example. I would love to be able to click on it and get some more history/detail and perhaps some images of it too.
The assumption is Syndra moves her fortress around the world, rather than just keeping it relatively above Ionia. There's no reason to believe she would move it around the world.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 25
With the Syndra buffs coming on a part of her kit historically considered 'pro play oppressive', are there plans to revert it, or nerf other parts if Syndra suddenly steps out of line into p/b status?
Rioter Comments
: Also these days the stun lands when it's not supposed to sometimes too
I'd need to some evidence on that one as I've not heard of any bugs arising there. Isometric can make the spheres look weird even if it is technically correct.
: Syndra is becoming Mordekaiser 2.0
I find it hilarious you have to post about gameplay impacting bugs outside the *bug report forum* in order to garner attention to it. It just tickles me, because it smacks of 'scream loudly until someone pays attention'. There's almost no point in doing due process if that's the chief way.
: Azir is / was buggier. He had a bug where he would steal the skin of another Azir when killing them lol.
Azir is notable in that his bugs became immediately apparent and were worked on ... pretty much from the get go. So, the severity of his issues were visible very early on. For the first 1-2 years--years, not months or weeks--Syndra's stun had a 50% or higher chance of 'not working'. The sphere would pass through the target and apply no CC at all. On the skill that critically defines her ability to engage or protect herself. It still took around 6 months before the first serious fix was applied to it after multiple frontpage reddit threads, and several more were needed to make it serviceable. It's still bugged today, but right now the current version causes her stun to fail when it's cast during her death animation (so she dies, and a sphere is in motion--this sphere does not stun, even though it should). The stutter step bug mentioned above has existed as long as her champion has, despite multiple fixes toward it. etc.
Meddler (NA)
: Phase Rush should be a really solid choice on quite a few. As with Stormraider's Surge we're expecting some people will be slower to pick up on how valuable it is though because it doesn't have damage and people gravitate towards that pretty heavily. For really burst focused mages Electrocute's also a strong option. Dark Harvest's potentially solid too, though that's one of the ones I'm less sure about the current balance tuning on in general. Summon: Aery is also going to be good in some cases, particularly but not only if the mage in question has a shield on their kit. I think it gets automatically dismissed by a lot of people because they see shield in the text, but given the way the CD on it works it's not like you're getting only half the benefit if you don't have a shield. Would also expect at least some niche use of the Inspiration keystones, looter especially, to have its place. Resolve's generally not so mage friendly. Bit of splash use of precision's possible, Fleet Footwork on champs like TF especially, though wouldn't expect too much of that.
The issue with Aery is it's a crappier DFT for damage reasons. Like, super crappy. Not only is the actual damage lower, in AOE blast contexts it doesn't even apply to multiple targets, and you can't determine what actual target it will go for. The usability of the keystone is just miles worse in pretty much everyway, while having an illusion of being somewhat desirable in the damage role for pure damage dealers. It really isn't. You have to be a dual-user like Orianna to get good mileage out of it. Otherwise you're literally better off letting Meteor fire and miss, or just taking Phase Rush if you have at least 2 damaging abilities + autos.
Meddler (NA)
: Not sure if it's been considered, I'll pass the thought along though. Can personally see arguments both for and against showing more precise shield values. On one hand having information lets you make more informed choices potentially. On the other the difference between a 300 and 400 point shield won't necessarily change your play and communicating it does make it harder to communicate other stuff (only so much real estate on screen and ways you can split people's focus).
For a Burst-oriented player, knowing precise values is one of the measures of mastery. The difference in 100 raw hp (that is then amplified by resistances, so it's larger than it seems) can make or break a potential kill window.
Høzzy (NA)
: I am still having this issue, have you got a response back yet? not sure if its a bug or my computer.
It's a bug with their software, not your computer. As far as I know, somewhere on the grape vine was 'they are aware of it', but it's anyone's guess if/when they allocate resources toward fixing it.
Eeyore (EUW)
: Will Irelia still be a lich bound to a phylactery by Soraka?
This detail was pretty killed back in the old lore team. Though the setup seems like it could lead to that direction, Irelia never fulfilled some of the other requirements of Lichdom. On top of this fact, becoming a type of undead doesn't really push her story in any way it's worth keeping.
: Hexdrinker is disgustingly overloaded already, we don't need another busted magic shield when AP champs get absolutely nothing in exchange except... stopwatch.
Pretty much my issue is you can out play Zhonya's but Hexdrinker can only be beaten by out statting it. It just moves the bar for the stat check in a non-interactive or meaningful way. Sure, having a mage dodge abilities with Zhonya's can suck in team fighting ............... if they got Zhonya's off at the right, specific time. Hexdrinker, not only not requiring a thought process, only makes you concerned about enemies who are obscenely fed enough to beat the stat check. I might not mind nearly as much as I do if Hexdrinker's passive required an active component (so CC can beat it like it does Zhonya's)(Also the user can introduce human error to the equation and potentially misfire their Hexdrinker shield, like Zhonya's).
: Now that Nullifying Orb exists...
The best part is if they don't nerf the interaction, it's essentially 2 different shields that auto-proc for free at low HP *that also benefit from MR*. So the total EHP of the combo is so insanely high it becomes near impossible to solo kill in a burst rotation. Said combo becomes stronger the more MR you stack onto it. Can I trade out Zhonya's stasis for that?
: Sounds interesting. I do suspect it's pretty broken, though a lack of any real stats might counteract that, and even then, it's not necessarily something that couldn't be worked around. Even if we were to change Tear to be more powerful, the problem it's meant to solve honestly isn't one that many champions are faced with nowadays, insofar as extreme Mana gating is concerned. Maybe we should change it to be more of a playstyle option than champion binding or something. Maybe more people want to buy Tear and its upgrades than I'm giving credit to, but it seems more like a burden/requirement for certain champions than it does an exciting playstyle opportunity in its current form. Another option could be to just amp up the power of the upgrades a bit once they're stacked up and upgraded. Basically, I'm not sure whether the best approach to Tear should be closer to "make it turn on earlier because games have become shorter" or "make it more powerful once finished to compensate for the early game power trough incurred by taking it."
It's a scaling snowball item that A) was made for a different era in the game, and B) was champion bound to a certain, 'spammy caster' group and left there. In theory, accumulating a huge mana pool of any kind would be a conscious decision to go for 'mana stability'. League's mana flooded enough (Blue Buff, Blue Pot(?), Morello's, most champions mana costs being cut, homogenized, or otherwise reduced compared to S1-3) that such an active choice is pretty much irrelevant. To make Tear and its associated items meaningful, you need to make having a lot of mana (read: mana stability) a meaningful choice to make. Morello's in particular (with Meditation and the soon-to-be Manaflow Band) removes mana as a meaningful mechanic ... pretty much outright. The only Champions suffering still are the spammy ones Tear was bound to to begin with. In such a world, for instance, Morello's would be more the AP assassin (dump their mana in one go and get resets or do nothing) versus the siege/longevity of Tear (reduced mana costs, bigger mana pool). So, if you took the current mana comfort a lot of champions enjoy and move that understanding onto Tear, that'd be its gameplay niche. Slightly comparable to old Athene's in a sense, minus the durability, I suppose. Morello's by contrast would be a lot more constrained and make you count your shots for the more immediate upfront damage injection it gives. The availability of mana in meaningful ways (not touching the damage at all, arguably) would radically impact mage expression in the game, tbh.
Meddler (NA)
: I can't speak for all of Riot. For me personally it's a combination of time and echo chamber effect though. Time wise there's only so much time in most weeks I can put into communication on Boards and I've felt I can offer better visibility into stuff through preparing these posts a couple of times a week and then responding to stuff here. In terms of echo chamber it feels like an awful lot of the time Boards is dominated by a lot of threads by a small proportion of users saying the exact same thing, with pretty negative treatment of people trying to discuss alternate viewpoints. People looking to shout more than talk. There's still a bunch of good stuff out there, but it's a lot harder to have those discussions than it should be IMO.
Might be worth raising the issue with whoever is in charge of the boards administration (communications team?). The reddit-style voting system is subject to flagrant abuse and manipulation techniques without having the same security (afaik) as Reddit ... even then, mob-mentality rules over all. I'm not wholly convinced it's a tenable style of a discussion forum without an equally aggressive moderation unit filtering out problems.
: We're hoping to do a pass on AP itemization sometime in the (hopefully near) future. If the issue with them is build diversity, some suggestions for new/modified items could be useful, if for no other reason than to get some ideas flowing. If those suggestions also included why they'd be good additions to the game, or what problem they address, that would also be very useful.
The relationship of mana between the items and blue buff perhaps needs to be more strenuously looked at. It very easily flips from 'have to manage mana (early game)' to 'what's mana lol (mid/late game)'. Very few champions specifically care about their total mana management past the laning phase, and this was true as far back as original Athene's. It would potentially help the balancing field if mana commitment was far more strategically important than it is now. As it is, the notion of resource management is mostly laughed off, which means things like Anivia still lane control 24/7 without much fear. This *was* one of the goals by switching mages off of MP/5 compared to supports, but they have more functional mana availability now than they did when they were on MP/5. It needs some tidying up.
: Please add a permanent opt-out button in the client to permanently disable emotes. I don't mind you guys putting them in the game, and other players can buy and use them if they want, that's their choice. Personally they're not for me, so it would be great to have a button so I don't have to mute everyone as soon as I get in game.
This. I'd rather not contend with the visual noise and disruption to the game scape emoting in general would bring, and hate the idea that I have to forcefully mute allies to block it out at all. Not all emoting is abusive in nature, and it can simply come down to 'I think its ugly and don't want it cluttering up my screen uselessly'. Tying it to chat muting is basically a barrier of entry *and* disincentive to actively removing the problem, as you may be forced to decide on muting an otherwise healthy ally's chat. The underlying assertion is, essentially, 'We at Riot want people to buy emotes and show them off completely *until* they become a problem', rather than 'We at Riot want people to buy emotes and show them off, but for those who don't want them, here's an option in the client to disable them wholesale'. I get it's to push sales and insure you'll have people buying into emotes without fear of it being 'meaningless'. But, much like custom/changed maps in Ranked/Competitive, the added noise can contaminate an otherwise sanctified experience for some.
: Star Guardian Syndra is a wasted potential
I'd rather not burn Syndra's only legendary skin slot for the next half-decade or so on the SG theme of all things. There are much stronger and better suited themes for her than that.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 8
A problem arises with lane Kayn in so far as the interaction with his W. The reach and *speed* of it resolving actually allows for him to out trade a lot of mages and other ranged enemies in ways that makes dealing with him abnormally difficult. He's especially gifted at trapping you when you go to last hit for CS. Short of Xerath and Ziggs, who out range everything, I've found interacting with him in lane to be rather binary and problematic. This gets especially worse in his shadow assassin form later (though laning is generally done) because of the extra range added to the W. If he was to live in any lane, I suspect this'll have to be addressed, as it does give him a disproportionate amount of power, but it may potentially harm jungle Kayn more in the process.
Wrekzzz (NA)
: Runes Corner: Stormlord's Mandate and Spellslinger's Surge
Spellslinger's Surge is straight up overpowered and will cause problems. "Hitting a champion with 3 unique attacks or abilities within 2 seconds grants 30%-60% movement speed for 3 seconds. Additionally, Melee champions gain 75% slow resistance while active." read "Every ranged kiting Champion in the game now has a repeatable all-situations speed control option unless the enemy kills them under hard CC" The damage threshold is what kept a lot of them from successfully using it like that, and the few who could had a powerful opt-in option on Stormraider's. I'd earnestly consider separating the speed and cooldown values differently for Melee and Ranged, or you're going to have to break this keystone to stop ranged from using it.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 21
On the Orianna front: perhaps an area to look at is her own chain reacting capabilities? That is, Orianna throws the ball into people-->R-->W-->E-->Q(?), or some variation thereof, all in the instance her R has fired and vacuumed CC'd any number of targets. That is, she is essentially slamming 3 or 4 of her abilities at once, by herself, in a nuke window, thus artificially raising her AOE damage profile massively. This is to the point that Orianna has, for many years, been the queen of AOE damage in addition to other roles, even when some other champions (Viktor, Zyra(?)) should have a higher priority on AOE damage than her. If her place is more 'safe and reliable', then looking at the damage projection there specifically may help to make her more of a 'team modifying' AOE fighter than a 'oh look Ori got 3 of us aaaaand we're gone to her and her alone'. The Ball delivery via Ally Champion initiation seems to be a good place to put a synergy buff, for example. Ori provides the CC and some damage (but no where near what she does currently), while the ally can exploit 'some thing' to do more than they could previously.
Ductor (NA)
: Since you guys are looking at Orianna/Syndra, do you have anything in store for Lost Chapter/Morellonomicon? The item has dominated mid lane for quite some time and really clamps out a lot of build diversity simply because the stats are too good to pass up.
This. The item adds a high damage build path that was never even imagined for years before, without prior weaknesses helping to limit it (Morello's as it existed before 6.9). Being made *the primary* mana and damage item without MR (e.g, Athene's) is basically +40 AP worth of damage + the removal of ambient MR = overall larger damage injection (something like +40ap+15-25%DR removal?). High damage Champions would feel the impact of this the most, given how damage itemization starved they were for the most part prior to the item change.
: Thoughts on Syndra
Completely defeats the purpose of her stacking mechanic and basically mandates a fundamental kit redesign. The whole 'lay down spheres, snipe a stun and kill' you mention is one of her core gameplay designs in the control->trap pattern she works on. The reason why she is based off *time spent* is because accuracy *is still required*, and being able to kill by her R alone means she's already in an advantageous state against the enemy she's doing it against. If you want to live test your idea, play Syndra and don't use her ultimate when your abilities miss, regardless of the spheres you have. You'll quickly experience how clunky, unreliable, and utterly painful it is trying to do anything with her.
: gee riot, you're laying it on pretty thick for Yorick, don't you think
There's no reason to max Yorick E second, his wall is better in all scenarios except the most stupidly lost ones (where E has to be used for ranged farming). While I'm on the fence about this, giving his E more meaningful level up power options may give him some diversity in his options.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 14
I've deep concerns about buffing Xerath, as he seems to function in a near 'sleeper OP' state in my experience, and is one of the few picks I regard as such. Playing him is tricky, but once you're familiar with his pattern, his damage output capacity is absolutely insane. Giving him enough to compensate for the problems of pro play (where being counter picked and coordinated against is a more extreme issue) will almost undoubtedly make him overbearing in solo play, I think.
: Appreciate the post (as always, love reading your Syndra analysis). Will forward this and see what they think & if they want to continue the discussion.
Ah, thank you. You're welcome to poke me for anything else that comes to mind in that regard.
: I share your opinion that these champions are stifling for the midlane meta (along with Taliyah in Pro) but don't believe we have plans to nerf them currently.
Unironically, a place you might be able to shave stats off for free on Syndra is 5-10 points off her Q's base damage. The AP ratio increase to compensate for the loss of her +15% damage passive did a weird thing to her Q's power curve in 6.9. She received a damage *increase* levels 1-4 thanks to the AP ratio buff. She then immediately suffers a damage *decrease* at level 5 until around 575 AP--or, practically equivalent at around 450 AP, then equal at 575, and a buff past that. So, her early game Q was improved (something that was pointedly stripped away from her in the past before) by around 5-15 points of damage off the AP ratio. While stripping the base damage doesn't neatly clean that up, and she'll still get *some* benefit unless it's an overkill nerf, it won't be as nearly as impactful as it is currently.
Sparkle (NA)
: No, this is not related to TLD.
If TLD and Meteor exist in the same system, TLD's entire sub-mastery route is going to have to be absolutely awful for mages, or they'll always grab it. The reliability issues of Meteor is a sharp downgrade.
: I don't see the point of buying it now on her when a lot of items are arguably better. {{item:3165}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}} - These are basically essential to her and other mages, past that it's usually {{item:3285}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3089}}. And now when i usually ult i don't have much health to heal, and the rest of her abilities are AoE which are of course not as effective. The CDR was nice, but if you want defense you could go with {{item:3102}} + {{item:3157}} which already caps your CDR with Morellos, which is a must buy.
It's worth noting the advantage of a WOTA rush is comparable to the damage rush of a Morello's. It was actually a unique path where you prioritized damage over mana sustainability (which was Athene's at the time) for your early game, letting you get more power with some downsides if you screwed up your management game. It was for this fact I was astonished Morello's released as it did, as it was not only the damage rush build path, but also the mana sustain one, spliced together. So, it did take over a lot of value WOTA brought aside from the spell vamp. These days you could still make an argument for WOTA, but it'd definitely be as a second or third item (with Void filling the other slot) in a 3-item core build. The sustain value on Syndra was very powerful if applied correctly, but not in a Vladimir-esque "lul tank everything" manner.
: Child soldiers, what the hell?
It's effective against Ionians because of their moral values giving them pause. This same tactic may be effective against Demacians for the same reasons. It does, however, ruin your future crop of soldiers and cause massive logistical problems over the long term. Whatever 'devious' commander elected for it here was going more for moral shock value than anything strategic probably. Zed's observations affirm this just as much. Versions of this tactic, both with literal children and otherwise, is prevalent in our own history. Cats were wielded against the Egyptians, who wouldn't fight on the chance they'd hurt something so very sacred. The brutality of war quickly mandated they change their views on that matter, though.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: No immediate plans for further changes at least. The R is still a topic of some disagreement internally (not an uncommon occurrence, especially with champs that have been balance challenges at times).
Piggy backing--in regards to Syndra's code state, what sort of value proposition is necessary for a full code wipe and rewrite? There's a history of bugs, malfunctioning performance, and other micro issues that crop up around her whenever she is 'changed' in anyway that have plagued her for, literally, years. Prior fixes coming undone, etcetra.
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