NY64 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Trolosaurus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Bs64zgAH,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-07-17T06:02:42.356+0000) > > Oh I'm very aware, I'm a Tahm main. > They gutted his support to move him to top, then gutted him in top. > He essentially doesn't exist now I bet someone on the balance team went top lane for the first time and said afterwards nope I can’t deal with him gotta gut him to oblivion so I don’t have to deal with him ever again.
> [{quoted}](name=NY64,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Bs64zgAH,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2019-07-17T18:48:34.705+0000) > > I bet someone on the balance team went top lane for the first time and said afterwards nope I can’t deal with him gotta gut him to oblivion so I don’t have to deal with him ever again. A RIOTer, play top lane? This isn't Memes and Games.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kAzK7may,comment-id=0012000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T10:34:19.028+0000) > > really? ive seen this a couple of month ago. not sure its that old. > > riot didnt use indepth lore cinematics like that back in season 2 yet. Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is I got so tired of the fanbase forcing it back then that any attempts to make it official more recently... They're gonna have to try real hard to win me over, cuz it feels old for me already.
You've clearly never read the JoJ.
Xavanic (NA)
: Noticed a lot of potential bugs with illoai....let me know if these are intended or not
1. She has to have W'd you first, and landed the hit before you land the last hit on the tentacle. This was a recent change added, as previously high attack speed champions with half a brain were effectively immune to all of her tentacle damage, as in the time after she had landed a W, and before her tentacle finished its swing 1 second later, they could attack it twice and kill it. 2. It is and always has been ever so slightly longer range (just in front, not side to side) than the indicator shows, by around 15 range. I would fully support increasing the length of the indicator to account for this, but its been there since day 1, almost 4 years ago. 3. Its not randomly, and will only happen if you are already made a vessel from her having killed your spirit. This will cause tentacles to spawn periodically, every 5 / 4 / 3 seconds depending on her level, as well as directing all nearby tentacles to slam every 5.5 / 4.5 / 3.5 seconds, based on her level as well. As such, during a WW ult, you would only have had one proc of slams occur.
Yets4240 (NA)
: Armor pen is most effective as the third offensive item. In prior League game states, LW was the go to 2nd or 3rd item that was core in every single ADC's build. the current incarnation of LW is actually the second strongest version to have ever existed, with identical stats to its strongest incarnation, except for a slight increase in cost; and yet, it is still cost effective against a measly 88 armor, which by base stats, every single tank, juggernaut, and even most divers get with absolutely zero armor items, runes, steroids or other buffs. The optimal ADC build would have a zeal item, IE, then LDR, if they're main purpose is optimizing damage. The second zeal item actually increases their average DPS by a lesser amount than an LDR, while also costing as much or more to purchase; unless they are only targeting other ADCs, or mages without so much as a {{item:3191}} or {{item:3157}} or {{item:3047}}, at which point the LDR again becomes a higher damage amp. At base armor, level 1 for most champions, (I used 33 armor for the calculation) LDR's passive still will increase damage dealt by 10% + 45 raw AD, which scales with AS/crit chance/crit damage. at 100 armor, its over 20% increased damage, almost to 25%, and then by 200 armor, you get basically 35% increased damage, before factoring in the extra damage from the raw AD.
Everything here is 100% correct, could those who downvoted please explain why? I'm legitimately confused here. He's even scattered the maths for this across other replies throughout the thread, many of which are heavily upvoted.
: Why build the pen if no one is building armor?
Because its extremely effective even against base armor, much less if a {{item:3047}} or {{item:3742}} or {{item:3157}} or {{item:3026}} is built? Plus, {{item:3033}} also is ADCs only effective means of cutting healing, which is quite rampant atm, so . . .
Eedat (NA)
: Oh yeah. These challenger ADCs don't build it because they cant position correctly. Let me go tell Bang and Uzi that they're garbage and cant play their role real quick
Well, look at players like Benji and Ruler who routinely builds either {{item:3033}} or {{item:3036}} Sure, those who play mostly {{champion:81}} and {{champion:145}} don't need the armor pen, as they are magic heavy ADCs, but those aren't who we're talking about here.
Eedat (NA)
: You you literally not read what I wrote at all? ***You do no damage if you're dead***. Congrats, you have a very efficient gold item but you're dead so now it does absolutely zero damage. Oh snap, now these other items actually do more damage because, you know, you're still alive doing damage. This is why no ADCs build it. Not even the challenger ones. But please, by all means tell us how much better you know than Rekkles
So maybe learn to fucking position if you're going to play an ADC? I mean ???? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: It wasn't just two tanks. 4 of them were viable.
Oh fucking wow, that doesn't change the point of what I said, and from what I'm seeing looking it up, the other two may have been viable, but had less than 5% playrates, which is what I was talking about . . .
Eedat (NA)
: You completely ignored what I said > You are not listening to me. Just because a LW item is efficient to buy, that does NOT make it the_** best**_ choice. There is not enough armor stacking tanks to make it _**absolutely necessary**_. The game is filled with champs that will oneshot you as an ADC in under a second. > Alright, the LW item equates to '49+45 AD'. Fantastic. Doesnt mean anything when the Irelia jumps on you and you die in <1 second. Thats why they're forgoing the extra damage for: > * the shield and sustain of {{item:3080}} * the shield and speed of {{item:3046}} * the range and speed of {{item:3094}} * the QSS, MR, and sustain of {{item:3139}} > LW can be and is efficient all it wants. That still doesnt make it the _**best**_ option. First and foremost you need to not die. Yes, people are actually (get ready for this) **_giving up some raw damage_** for a chance to not get instagibbed in <1 second. Just because its more raw damage ***does not mean its the best option***. This is why **_Challenger players don't build it_**. You want to see more LW items? Won't happen until tanks are buffed back up
Maybe you missed the gold efficiency calculations where it becomes far and away the highest gold efficiency item in the game period. You also cannot seem to do your DPS calculations, or else vastly underestimate just how much armor can cut raw damage if not mitigated. It will cause you to do more damage than a Phantom Dance, a Blood Thirstier, a Rapid Fire Cannon and a Mercurial Scimitar, ***WHILE ASLO COSTING LESS THAN ANY OF THEM.*** You talk about not paying attention to what you wrote; but you're actually just wrong. Yet you are the one who cannot seem to read what was written here, nor understand what the maths shows.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T19:15:16.443+0000) > > Current Lord Dom's is 45 AD and 35% total pen for 2800 gold. > > Basically we're paying 500g for 5 AD. that's my point. People think that because last whisper now "upgrades" to different items it means it's buffed, when in reality, they just made last whisper into a starting item like BF sword or orb
Its more slot efficient, while still gold efficient against 88 or more armor which, well, Yets4240 compiled a list of all the champions who have more base armor than that, let me copy and paste it. Its cost efficient against Teemo's, Neeko's, Janna's, etc ***base armor*** let alone if a mage buys so much as a {{item:3191}} or {{item:3157}} or literally any champion in the game buys {{item:3047}} From Yets4240, list of champions LDR is cost efficient against (between 100% to over 115% efficient from base armor alone) > {{champion:82}} > {{champion:17}} > {{champion:203}} > {{champion:26}} > {{champion:518}} > {{champion:34}} (especially if Eggnivia) > {{champion:9}} > {{champion:35}} > {{champion:91}} > {{champion:25}} > {{champion:68}} > {{champion:43}} > {{champion:50}} > {{champion:112}} > {{champion:104}} > {{champion:117}} > {{champion:238}} > {{champion:20}} > {{champion:131}} > {{champion:154}} (look, our first tank!) > {{champion:114}} > {{champion:40}} (what the actual fuck, Janna has higher base armor than ZAC?!?) > {{champion:85}} > {{champion:266}} > {{champion:75}} > {{champion:62}} > {{champion:141}} > {{champion:5}} > {{champion:106}} > {{champion:102}} > {{champion:59}} > {{champion:56}} > {{champion:36}} > {{champion:64}} > {{champion:79}} > {{champion:27}} > {{champion:28}} > {{champion:16}} (why the fuck does Soraka also have so much base armor?!?) > {{champion:421}} > {{champion:267}} (okay RIOT wtf) > {{champion:78}} (our second tank, who also gets passive %increased resistances) > {{champion:31}} > {{champion:32}} (Ayy, more tanks) > {{champion:44}} (also gets %increased armor) > {{champion:254}} > {{champion:497}} (? Seriously, RIOT, why the fuck do enchanters have way too much armor?) > {{champion:420}} > {{champion:164}} > {{champion:54}} (third highest %armor increased steroid in game, actually gets two of them) > {{champion:77}} > {{champion:432}} (okay what the actual fuck) > {{champion:72}} > {{champion:111}} > {{champion:58}} (maybe renekton doesn't need higher base defensive stats than almost every actual tank . . .) > {{champion:240}} > {{champion:80}} (glad that shield does something other than stun and deflect the occasional projectile) > {{champion:12}} > {{champion:516}} > {{champion:120}} > {{champion:113}} (absolutely massive %increased armor steroid) > {{champion:223}} > {{champion:57}} > {{champion:83}} > {{champion:122}} > {{champion:89}} > {{champion:6}} > {{champion:33}} (100% increased total armor steroid) > {{champion:53}} > {{champion:201}} (also gets a %resistance steroid) > {{champion:555}} Maybe my math is off, but I count over 65 different champions, which is essentially half the entire fucking roster. Heaven forbid they get the extra armor rune, build any armor, have an armor steroid or have an armor buff used on them.
: *year and a half Tanks existed beginning of S8 (or was it S7, either way beginning of runes reforged season) up until midseason.
Was still league of damage and mobility. that doesn't change just because two tanks had above 5% playrates . . .
: I know its not much since your at -16 but I will leave my small meaningless upvote here....
Read Yets' reply, and you can see why it deserves all the downvotes his comment has. Its factually inaccurate and spreading pure bullshit.
Kirika (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-08T16:19:19.659+0000) > > I still have Vietnam flashbacks where the enemy mages who have voidstaff get VASTLY out damaged by the adc despite me having {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} and only {{item:3065}} as my mr item. > > While the mages had {{item:3135}} > > And the adc ({{champion:18}}) didn't have lord dominiks...not even full crit yet.. (all of her damage still came from basic attacking) > > > > No, im not joking....I know mages arnt supposed to do a lot to tanks but this is best case scenario for them to hurt me more than the adc and it disgusts me that none of these factors matter. > > > > > And the lack of adcs needing to build armor penetration has been a thing for 2 seasons ATLEAST. Riot has nightmares of strong tanks. There was one season where tanks wher like unkillable. (3 I think) Where you could just walk with Leona from enemy base to your own while beeing hit and follwed, CCed and slowed by the full enemy team. I think they are afraid of something like that happening again if they buff tanks even in the slightest. (miss you {{item:4401}}
the only tank META League has ever seen was in season 5 before the Juggernaut Patch (5.21). Season 3 was an Assassin META, that was nicknames "League of Cleaver" due to how many people purchased The Black Cleaver, and how at the start of the season it didn't have a unique passive, and Zeds and Talons literally built 4-5 of them and boots as their only items.
: So you are looking at the sites properly? Are you just posting to ride of some anti marksmen circlejerk? Or did you legit not realize that none of those profiles you linked has any 6 item marksman games on them where the enemy has a tank that isnt piss weak and far behind? Why in the world would a overfed {{champion:119}} bother with armor pen against a guy with ninja tabi´s and a chainvest? Why would a {{champion:145}} for the same reason against s a olaf? You dont build the same every game aside from core items, the rest you adapt to the situation and when the tanks dont exist or are weak then there is no point in armor pen.
LDR is cost efficient against as little as 88 armor. Against a 100 armor target, its passive alone provides a 20% total damage amp, plus 45 raw AD. Against a 200 armor target, which a tank with ninja tabi and chain vest can easily approach, its over a 35% total damage amp. It's over 115%-130% efficient against a tank with base armor and a chainvest, if it's Braum, or Rammus (even without their steroids active) from their base armor and a chain vest it nearly reaches 145% gold efficiency. By the time you're up at 200+ armor, its the single most cost efficient damage item in the entire game, bar none. It's literally the most cost efficient and highest damage amplification you can purchase as an ADC hitting just the base armor of a tank or juggernaut after you have 1 zeal item and 1 IE. In simpler terms, if you want the most damage for your gold, as an ADC with so much as a bulky target in your game, you'll want an LDR as your third completed item.
Pika Fox (NA)
: They nerfed LW heavily. Tanks are still the de facto best class in the game bar none, and especially in high ELO dont just evaporate to an ADC. Players dont build pen because the pen items are generally garbage for the gold unless you need exec. Doesnt mean armor sucks, it means the item isnt worth buying.
LDR is effective against the base armor of every. single. tank. and. juggernaut. in. the. fucking. game. LW was not nerfed heavily. They changed it from a much more balanced 35% bonus armor pen, to 35% total pen in LDR. That's a huge buff. The most recent change to it, after that, was giving it 5 extra AD. Another buff. Lie somewhere else, please.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-07-08T17:12:23.887+0000) > > I know that > > My point is that armor is so garbage, that people don't buy it resulting in adc not building armor pen > > **I'M NOT SAYING THAT ARMOR PEN IS WEAK** > I'm saying that armor is garbage i didnt imply you said armor pen is weak, i just said that if the enemy team isnt building armor (because most of them arent meant to build armor because they arent tanks) then why are you pointing out that adc's dont build armor pen? I wouldnt waste a slot for lord dominiks to penetrate 35% of a squishie's base stats, i would build more damage/survivability/utility. When im facing tanky teams who stack armor, i build lord dominiks, when im facing teams with a lot of heals i build mortal reminder, but if the situation doesnt call for it, i dont HAVE to build it.
LDR is effective against 88 armor or more. Literally EVERY SINGLE TANK AND JUGGERNAUT HAS MORE ***BASE*** ARMOR THAN THAT. Its is more than gold efficient against every tank and every juggernaut even if they get no additional armor from anywhere.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-08T16:19:19.659+0000) > > I still have Vietnam flashbacks where the enemy mages who have voidstaff get VASTLY out damaged by the adc despite me having {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} and only {{item:3065}} as my mr item. > > While the mages had {{item:3135}} > > And the adc ({{champion:18}}) didn't have lord dominiks...not even full crit yet.. (all of her damage still came from basic attacking) > > > > No, im not joking....I know mages arnt supposed to do a lot to tanks but this is best case scenario for them to hurt me more than the adc and it disgusts me that none of these factors matter. Void staff is around 20 times better than the LW items, and so is the mage itemization for the most part. So idk what you're talking about, tanks get destroyed by mages with void staff much harder than by bruisers with conqueror or adcs (and adcs are supposed to kill tanks).
Void staff gives 1/8th more magic pen, which is worth 11.11% less per point than armor. ceteris paribus, they are roughly equal, and the slight difference is offset by LDR giving more flat AD (which is also target agnostic, and scales damage against all target types) plus the fact that base armor values for tanks and juggernauts are roughly double the base MR values. In fact, as someone else pointed out elsewhere, LDR is fucking efficient against thier base stats alone, where as one MUST purchase MR before VS becomes efficient against ANY target in the entire game.
Exin0 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBbWs58k,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T04:00:14.667+0000) > > Copying/pasting from elsewhere in this thread because I keep seeing this inane and absolutely, demonstrably false bullshit spewed all over. You can't maths and you clearly ***VASTLY*** underestimate how much fucking damage there is in this game, and how little defense matters, even when not properly penetrated. > > "Ryze, Azir, and Cass can easily do upwards of 1k DPS, especially single target and at full build; in fact, even Cass who does significant AoE and who CANNOT itemize over half of the flat pen she wants still does nearly 2k DPS. > > First, let's look at what Mundos actually build: > > In Plat+ here is his most common build: > > {{item:3047}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3075}} /{{item:3143}} > Just to strongman your argument, we'll go with the Randuin's to increase his mEHP. > > This gives a level 18 Mundo: > > +425HP, +450+55MR, +800HP, +40MR, +400HP for a total of 95MR, and 2075 bonus HP. > Mundo's base stats are: 2095HP, 53MR > > Adding those together, we have: 4170 HP and 148 MR. > > ~ > > Let's use Cass as an example, as she will have the lowest numbers of the champions you have mentioned. > Note, she can not get 18 flat pen from boots, and does build Morello and Void Staff both extremely commonly, in essentially every game that goes long enough in Plat+ according to League of Graph. > > Thus, against her, Mundo will have 73.8MR (for the other champions who buy sorc shoes, this would be further taken down to 55.8MR, or only 37% damage reduction) 73.8 MR provides 44% damage reduction > > Thus, to kill Mundo by herself, Cass will need to deal ~7,425 pre-mitigation magical damage. > > How long will it take her to do so? Less than five seconds, actually, but let's break it down. > > Well, we need to look at her build first, clearly. Her most common build is: > {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3040}} > > Right off the bat the maths gets muddled as we have multiple %increased moddifers (three to be exact, which happen to all scale exponentially off each other) plus %HP damage. Luckily, we know the HP of our target, so we can actually calculate this. furthermore, the Rylais guarantees that Liandry's will always tick for its increased damage rate of 2.5% of Mundo's max HP (104.25 damage per second, in fact, this burn alone would kill Mundo in roughly 40 seconds; BUT WAIT, for every second in combat, Cass does 2% increased damage, so even the first tick is actually 106.335, the second tick is 108.42, the third tick is 110.5, the fourth tick is 112.6, and the fifth and later ticks are 114.675 damage Thus Liandry's alone deals 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds, and 114.675 a second for every second afterwards; Liandry's alone kills Mundo in 36.5 seconds.) > > With that build her mana will be 2353.5 at level 18, which gives her an additional 70.6 AP. Her items give her: 50 + 90 + 75 + 70 + 70 + 120 + that 70.6 AP from Seraph's passive = 545.605 AP, before Rabbadon's Deathcap, which increases that by a further 40% to 763.847 AP > > ~ > > Her Q deals 215 (+ 90% AP) over three seconds, thus with 763.847 AP, she will do 902.4623 damage over three seconds, or 300.82076667 damage a second > > Her W deals 40 (+ 15% AP) damage a second, so with 763.847 AP, she will do 154.57705 damage a second > > Her E deals 120 + .1 AP plus 90 + .6 AP if poisoned (hint, Mundo always will be) every three quarters of a second, for 744.6929 raw damage, or 992.9238667 damage a second > > For a total of 1448.32168337 damage per second (not counting Liandry's amp, nor its burn) which alone seems ludicrously high, but wait, it gets better. > > Her ult deals 350 (+ 50% AP), and she'll only get it off once, so we'll include it as burst damage 5 seconds in when she's got her > Liandry's full powered up. In which case, it will deal 731.9235 base damage increased to 805.11585 with Liandry's. > > ~ > > Finally, to put this all together: > (don't worry I'll add Liandry's ramping damage amp to the DPS calculations) > > Cass deals: > 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds from Linadry's burn > 805.11585 damage from her ult > > These alone account for 1357.64585 of the 7425 pre-mitigation magical damage needed to kill Mundo. > > The first second of damage she will deal another 1477.2881170374 damage. > the second second she will deal 1506.2545507048 damage > The third second she will deal 1535.2209843722 damage > the fourth second she will deal 1564.1874180396 damage > The fifth second she will deal another 1593.153851707 damage > > Unfortunately, she quite comfortably overkills him, having done over 9,000 damage in 5 seconds (9033.750771861 damage to be exact). > > Remember that this Mundo, at level 18 and with a full build only has 7,425 mEHP. In fact, Cassiopeia can 100-0 this Mundo in under 4 seconds if she ults a lil' earlier than ideal. > > I won't bore you with even more math, but some of the champions mentioned can kill him 100-0 by themselves in under 3.5 seconds. dont you forget add 42% MR from his e and sustain from R+passive?
I know its maths heavy, but try to pay attention, I already turned it from raw HP into mEHP by factoring in the damage reduction he gets from magic resist. Mundo doesn't have over 7,000 fucking HP, now does he? In fact, he's only got just over 4k. But he does have over 7k effective health against magic damage with the magic resist that he has, after pen. If Mundo ulted he'd literally only die faster, as to ult it costs 25% of his health to do so, for him to regenerate 8.3% oh his health per second for each of the next 12 seconds. Also, his Q, W, and E all cause him to take additional damage just for using them, they don't provide any form of sustain, but rather the opposite. It is his passive that gives an, in this case, negligible heal of 0.3% HP a second. Say he ults from the start, he loses 25% of his hp, then he would start regenerating 8.3% for each of the next few seconds, but he dies in less than three seconds, before he can even regenerate the 25% of his HP he just used to activate the ult. He would get two procs off, and so trade 25% HP for 16.667% over the next two seconds. If he ults after some of the damage, he'll lose a lower amount of health, but still 25% of his current HP, and again, will die before that 8.3% max HP per second heals him enough to last even an additional second, let alone to recoup the cost of his ult. He's simply taking too much damage consistently to be able to regen through it with the cost to activate his ult. In general, Mundo needs to disengage for 2-3 seconds after ulting to get efficient use out of it. It takes 3 full seconds of regen to counter the activation cost if used at full health. If Mundo can survive at 75% HP for 4+ seconds, it becomes a great survivability tool, provided that the enemy doesn't have GW. The Cassiopeia in this case does, so Mundo is only getting about 5% HP per tick, so he needs 5+ seconds to recoup the damage from his ult if used initially, and he wouldn't even survive for 4 without factoring in the cost of using the ultimate, and less than 3 if he ults from full.
Theorex (NA)
: Again, I said lets drop Azir, Ryze, and Cass. Because those three mages are DPS. My nature they are going to do consistent damage. They are the mages that are suppose to function like a ADC. Use someone like Diana, Syndra, Ahri, Lux. Also. If mundo is going against a Cass. He know to itemize Adaptive Helm.
Diana, Syndra, Ahri, Lux are all supposed to be hard countered by Mundo, and those champion's goal as burst mages is specifically to get to the back line to instagib ADCs and other mages, while avoiding tanks, divers, skirmishers and juggernauts all who want to dive on them. Good thing eachone has good range and safety to poke in AoE without having to commit, and so can safely avoid those situations unless they severely misplay. I could do the calculation you're asking for, but its nonsensical. Those champions are playing their role and character wrong if they are focusing Mundo, or somehow positioned poorly enough to be in an isolated 1 vs 1 against him. Even in such cases, he's specifically designed as their counter and is fully intended to win such engagements if he somehow lucks into being against a very poor mage player.
: If you look at Mundo stats, literally every counter other than Karma is AD. He does die, but it's not because of any "Damage" meta. He dies because of the mobility meta and the limited scope of his cleaver towards team play. If Mundo is picked into an AP team, his win rate skyrockets. P.S. Mundo doesn't die FAST lol. Even when he does die, it's a 7-9 second + death with a team dogging his rear. Maoki doesn't die fast either. In fact, what's horribly wrong with this meta is the perception that being a tank = not dying for 30 seconds. Let me tell you something; I've played Ornn tanky. I last just fine in a fight..... for 4-5 seconds late game. In that 4-5 seconds, I get hit 15 times. And then I get the hell out. If those same 15 hits had hit someone else on my team, they would have died 3 times over. But instead, they hit me. And I get out after 5 seconds at 8% HP.
Copying/pasting from elsewhere in this thread because I keep seeing this inane and absolutely, demonstrably false bullshit spewed all over. You can't maths and you clearly ***VASTLY*** underestimate how much fucking damage there is in this game, and how little defense matters, even when not properly penetrated. "Ryze, Azir, and Cass can easily do upwards of 1k DPS, especially single target and at full build; in fact, even Cass who does significant AoE and who CANNOT itemize over half of the flat pen she wants still does nearly 2k DPS. First, let's look at what Mundos actually build: In Plat+ here is his most common build: {{item:3047}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3075}} /{{item:3143}} Just to strongman your argument, we'll go with the Randuin's to increase his mEHP. This gives a level 18 Mundo: +425HP, +450+55MR, +800HP, +40MR, +400HP for a total of 95MR, and 2075 bonus HP. Mundo's base stats are: 2095HP, 53MR Adding those together, we have: 4170 HP and 148 MR. ~ Let's use Cass as an example, as she will have the lowest numbers of the champions you have mentioned. Note, she can not get 18 flat pen from boots, and does build Morello and Void Staff both extremely commonly, in essentially every game that goes long enough in Plat+ according to League of Graph. Thus, against her, Mundo will have 73.8MR (for the other champions who buy sorc shoes, this would be further taken down to 55.8MR, or only 37% damage reduction) 73.8 MR provides 44% damage reduction Thus, to kill Mundo by herself, Cass will need to deal ~7,425 pre-mitigation magical damage. How long will it take her to do so? Less than five seconds, actually, but let's break it down. Well, we need to look at her build first, clearly. Her most common build is: {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3040}} Right off the bat the maths gets muddled as we have multiple %increased moddifers (three to be exact, which happen to all scale exponentially off each other) plus %HP damage. Luckily, we know the HP of our target, so we can actually calculate this. furthermore, the Rylais guarantees that Liandry's will always tick for its increased damage rate of 2.5% of Mundo's max HP (104.25 damage per second, in fact, this burn alone would kill Mundo in roughly 40 seconds; BUT WAIT, for every second in combat, Cass does 2% increased damage, so even the first tick is actually 106.335, the second tick is 108.42, the third tick is 110.5, the fourth tick is 112.6, and the fifth and later ticks are 114.675 damage Thus Liandry's alone deals 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds, and 114.675 a second for every second afterwards; Liandry's alone kills Mundo in 36.5 seconds.) With that build her mana will be 2353.5 at level 18, which gives her an additional 70.6 AP. Her items give her: 50 + 90 + 75 + 70 + 70 + 120 + that 70.6 AP from Seraph's passive = 545.605 AP, before Rabbadon's Deathcap, which increases that by a further 40% to 763.847 AP ~ Her Q deals 215 (+ 90% AP) over three seconds, thus with 763.847 AP, she will do 902.4623 damage over three seconds, or 300.82076667 damage a second Her W deals 40 (+ 15% AP) damage a second, so with 763.847 AP, she will do 154.57705 damage a second Her E deals 120 + .1 AP plus 90 + .6 AP if poisoned (hint, Mundo always will be) every three quarters of a second, for 744.6929 raw damage, or 992.9238667 damage a second For a total of 1448.32168337 damage per second (not counting Liandry's amp, nor its burn) which alone seems ludicrously high, but wait, it gets better. Her ult deals 350 (+ 50% AP), and she'll only get it off once, so we'll include it as burst damage 5 seconds in when she's got her Liandry's fully powered up. In which case, it will deal 731.9235 base damage increased to 805.11585 with Liandry's. ~ Finally, to put this all together: (don't worry I'll add Liandry's ramping damage amp to the DPS calculations) Cass deals: 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds from Linadry's burn 805.11585 damage from her ult These alone account for 1357.64585 of the 7425 pre-mitigation magical damage needed to kill Mundo. The first second of damage she will deal another 1477.2881170374 damage. the second second she will deal 1506.2545507048 damage The third second she will deal 1535.2209843722 damage the fourth second she will deal 1564.1874180396 damage The fifth second she will deal another 1593.153851707 damage Unfortunately, she quite comfortably overkills him, having done over 9,000 damage in 5 seconds (9033.750771861 damage to be exact). Remember that this Mundo, at level 18 and with a full build only has 7,425 mEHP. In fact, Cassiopeia can 100-0 this Mundo in under 4 seconds if she ults a lil' earlier than ideal. I won't bore you with even more math, but some of the champions mentioned can kill him 100-0 by themselves in under 3.5 seconds.
Theorex (NA)
: So it circles back around to the fact that its damage meta. And has nothing to do with the fact that mages actually can't one shot or even come close to killing mundo without outside help. A full build Mundo has about 3000-4000. with about 160 MR. So taking into account that mages can have 18+15 Flat pen with 40% pen. 64 + 33 = 97 Meaning he still takes 45-48% reduced damage. A full build mage can output about 2.8k damage excluding champions like Ryze, Azir, Cass, Viegar. Whom are DPS or have a infinite scaling thing.
Mundo with 160 MR would be reduced to only 63 after pen. 63 MR = 38% damage reduction. Where are you getting 45-48%? Additionally, Ryze, Azir, and Cass can easily do upwards of 1k DPS, especially single target and at full build; in fact, even Cass who does significant AoE and who CANNOT itemize over half of the flat pen she wants still does nearly 2k DPS. First, let's look at what Mundos actually build: In Plat+ here is his most common build: {{item:3047}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3143}}/{{item:3075}} Just to strongman your argument, we'll go with the Randuin's to increase his mEHP. This gives a level 18 Mundo: +425HP, +450+55MR, +800HP, +40MR, +400HP for a total of 95MR, and 2075 bonus HP. Mundo's base stats are: 2095HP, 53MR Adding those together, we have: ***4170 HP and 148 MR.*** ~ Let's use Cass as an example, as she will have the lowest numbers of the champions you have mentioned. Note, she can not get 18 flat pen from boots, and does build Morello and Void Staff both extremely commonly, in essentially every game that goes long enough in Plat+ according to League of Graph. Thus, against her, Mundo will have 73.8MR (for the other champions who buy sorc shoes, this would be further taken down to 55.8MR, or only 37% damage reduction) 73.8 MR provides ***44% damage reduction*** Thus, to kill Mundo by herself, Cass will need to deal ***~7,425 pre-mitigation magical damage.*** How long will it take her to do so? Less than five seconds, actually, but let's break it down. Well, we need to look at her build first, clearly. Her most common build is: {{item:3040}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} Right off the bat the maths gets muddled as we have multiple %increased moddifers (three to be exact, which happen to all scale exponentially off each other) plus %HP damage. Luckily, we know the HP of our target, so we can actually calculate this. furthermore, the Rylais guarantees that Liandry's will always tick for its increased damage rate of 2.5% of Mundo's max HP (104.25 damage per second, in fact, this burn alone would kill Mundo in roughly 40 seconds; BUT WAIT, for every second in combat, Cass does 2% increased damage, so even the first tick is actually 106.335, the second tick is 108.42, the third tick is 110.5, the fourth tick is 112.6, and the fifth and later ticks are 114.675 damage Thus Liandry's alone deals 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds, and 114.675 a second for every second afterwards; Liandry's alone kills Mundo in 36.5 seconds.) With that build her mana will be 2353.5 at level 18, which gives her an additional 70.6 AP. Her items give her: 50 + 90 + 75 + 70 + 70 + 120 + that 70.6 AP from Seraph's passive = 545.605 AP, before Rabbadon's Deathcap, which increases that by a further 40% to ***763.847 AP*** ~ Her Q deals 215 (+ 90% AP) over three seconds, thus with 763.847 AP, she will do 902.4623 damage over three seconds, or ***300.82076667 damage a second*** Her W deals 40 (+ 15% AP) damage a second, so with 763.847 AP, she will do ***154.57705 damage a second*** Her E deals 120 + .1 AP plus 90 + .6 AP if poisoned (hint, Mundo always will be) every three quarters of a second, for 744.6929 raw damage, or ***992.9238667 damage a second*** For a total of 1448.32168337 damage per second (not counting Liandry's amp, nor its burn) which alone seems ludicrously high, but wait, it gets better. Her ult deals 350 (+ 50% AP), and she'll only get it off once, so we'll include it as burst damage 5 seconds in when she's got her Liandry's full powered up. In which case, it will deal ***731.9235 base damage increased to 805.11585 with Liandry's.*** ~ Finally, to put this all together: (don't worry I'll add Liandry's ramping damage amp to the DPS calculations) Cass deals: 552.53 damage over the first 5 seconds from Linadry's burn 805.11585 damage from her ult These alone account for 1357.64585 of the 7425 pre-mitigation magical damage needed to kill Mundo. The first second of damage she will deal another 1477.2881170374 damage. the second second she will deal 1506.2545507048 damage The third second she will deal 1535.2209843722 damage the fourth second she will deal 1564.1874180396 damage The fifth second she will deal another 1593.153851707 damage ***Unfortunately, she quite comfortably overkills him, having done over 9,000 damage in 5 seconds (9033.750771861 damage to be exact).*** Remember that this Mundo, at level 18 and with a full build only has 7,425 mEHP. ***In fact, Cassiopeia can 100-0 this Mundo in under 4 seconds if she ults a lil' earlier than ideal.*** I won't bore you with even more math, but some of the champions mentioned can kill him 100-0 by themselves in under 3.5 seconds.
: It did break healers. Look at 2017 (especially during the time around Worlds) and tell me.
It broke ADCs by giving them all the defensive and sustain stats they needed PLUS BEING A MONSTROUS DPS INCREASE-- all this while the ADCs in question invested nothing, lost no item slots, and could still build 6 full offensive items. It created an ADC-centric hypercarry META. the healers were not at all the problem, the bonuses ADCs got for free (that other classes didn't get and could not use anywhere near as effectively) from the healing was what was ridiculously out of line, and turned the game from 2 solo lanes, 1 jungler, and 1 duo lane, to 1 carry and four bitches per team, invalidating every single role that was not the ADC, or the healer who buffed the ADC into a god.
Undead 02b (EUNE)
: Bro ready it again , if he doesnt kill he ll do 50% reduced dmg. So its like an aa will decide if u are gonna live or not. ok I get it its buffed yeah BUT it comes with risks, + it was said that his passive (heal when invisible) would be moved to W, if this happens it ll be overkill for support - aggresive pyke early game
Can you do basic math? Take X. Increase it by 220%, then reduce that amount by half. Guess what, you still have 110%(X) > X. That's before even accounting for the fact that he now gets full kill gold for assists + THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE ASSIST. So, now he gets more gold for an assist, than the person does who gets the kill. The extra gold alone is enough to already be far too powerful of a mechanic, and a completely unnecessary and ridiculously over the top buff to an already over performing character.
: Lucian's scalings are shit lmao..
He scales beyond 1.0 total AD per auto, because of his passive, while getting full benefit from stacking attack speed (even gives extra ult damage) as well as crit chance and crit damage. By virtue of being a ranged auto attacker with AA steroids, he literally scales far and away harder than, every single defensive champion in the game, as well as every ability based champion as well. His damage potential at three items is over a thousand DPS indefinitely, with a free dash for repositioning and to trigger his passive steroid.
: which would be who? Pant and cassio?
Garen, Darius, Yorick, Irelia, Jax, Zed, Xin, Cam, Fiora, Lee, Kayn, KLED, Master Yi, Wukong, Rengar, Kha'zix, Rek'sai, Trundle, Udyr, etc etc just to add to your list.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: who scales fantastically? You really think that lucian scales? what the actual fuck he's just going to get poked down and hard fucking lose if he gets hard countered you think alistar scales against **JANNA?** the support who literally throws 600 hp shields in late game on low cd and ult heals over 1k hp? No just no
Lucian scales harder than 95% of all champions, and only gets outscaled by a few other ADCs as they approach 5-6 item builds . . .
Kazekiba (NA)
: "Can the RNG game please be less RNG?" Play ... literally anything else?
That's funny, I sure as fuck don't recall the game mode being "RNG" or "RNG Game" or "RNG Game Mode" or even "Teamfight RNG" I quite distinctly recall, rememeber, and can clearly see that it is in fact known as "Teamfight ***TACTICS***" Since you don't seem at all familiar with this, or even a vague notion of what the word tactics means or entails, let's break it down: > "tac·tic > /ˈtaktik/ > Learn to pronounce > noun > noun: tactic; plural noun: tactics > > an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end. > "the minority attempted to control the Council by a delaying tactic" > synonyms: strategy, scheme, stratagem, plan, set of tactics, maneuver, course/line of action; More > method, program, expedient, gambit, move, approach, tack, path, road; > device, trick, ploy, dodge, ruse, game, machination, contrivance, stunt; > means, wiles, artifice, subterfuge; > informal wangle, caper; > archaic shift > "tax-saving tactics" > the art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, especially during contact with an enemy." Hmm . . . now even a cursory reading shows that the key element of "tactics" is the actions and strategies (carefully planned ones, no less!) towards achieving specific ends, or it is the art of properly arranging forces for battle with an enemy. Does . . . does literally anything there come close to sounding like complete RNG decided coin flips, where your strategies, planning , arrangement of troops, etc doesn't matter at fucking all, because coin flips and die rolls decide everything and you cannot even influence the RNG yourself for the majority of the RNG systems in place in the game mode? No, it doesn't? Not at all? That sound like the antithesis of the very notion even? Well I'll be damned. Its almost like the OP actually has a really fucking good point, or something . . .
: > [{quoted}](name=Power Mac,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=Eo1bmTOH,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-01T07:37:50.531+0000) > > Speaking of dumb stuff: why on earth B.F. Sword combined with Null-Magic Mantle gives life to Bloodthirster? It's with a negatron cloak, and it makes as much sense as if it were a bf sword with any other item
I would think BF + Giant's Belt. But no, you get a weak red buff instead for reason, when that isn't even a LoL item.
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=000a000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-02T02:54:55.621+0000) > > You don't even know the CC names in LoL yet you're going off on someone who's bothering to take the time to correct you. what the actual fuck. > > Learn to fucking read before you run your mouth. > > https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Root > > https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Slow I wouldn't be quick to defend T.E.T. You know your boy was arguing about two different things.
How so? I also was not defending nor referencing TET beyond mentioning that he did indeed take the time to correct Psi's infantile tantrum over not even knowing basic terms and definitions in League.
: To have 6 3 star champs definitely requires a bit of luck, though I agree that the number of items players get should be more normalized.
Or RNG manipulation strats to keep your level low, so as to increase the number of low cost champions in your pool, so you can stack 3* 1-2 cost champs.
: Its an execute. Pyke always got gold for the R not killing someone, he just got the cut instead of the most recent assister. This is giving Pyke 600 for doing either. If he gets the kill, he gets the kill gold + a "your cut". If he gets an assist, he gets the assist gold, plus 2 "your cut"'s. There really isnt any room to defend this change. ESPECIALLY for a 50% win rate assassin.
He actually gets more gold now for getting assists with the strongest, highest scaling, most overloaded execute (and frankly ability full stop) in all of League. There is fucking no room to defend the Pyke changes at all, and they had sure as fuck should not make it live.
: Giving Kled and Renekton anti-shield and partifularly GW baseline is going to make much of top lane miserably oppressive, since so many Juggernauts flat out rely on self healing skills in top lane. Kled is already one of the more oppressive top laners.
The Kled, Renek, Pyke, and Leona changes should never make it to live. Pyke and Kled in especial, but Renek does not need anything close to a buff, and Leona sure as shit doesn't need a nerf.
vyoda (NA)
: {{champion:53}} now roots himself?!! {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Its actually a like 8 year old revert. His old W would root him, instead of slow him afterwards.
Profirix (NA)
: He gets gold on assists too now. He doesn't need to take the kills.
He gets 200-600 free gold (or 400-800 if FB) in addition to his assist gold now, just for failing to kill someone with the highest base damage, strongest scaling (with now a free fucking 200% lethality ratio as well as a fucking ***GARGANTUAN 200% TOTAL AD RATIO*** on an *AoE ability,* no less) execute, that's also fucking AoE for no reason. If he gets an assist on FB now, he will get more gold than the fucking person who actually got the damn first blood in the first place. Such a fucking stupid and shortsighted plan. Who the fuck would suggest this, much less green light when the meth head in the office actually suggested it.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Those Pyke changes look a little overkill to be honest, I love him but they should probably tone back the scalings a bit. Maybe I'm wrong idk :p
Its a MASSIVE damage buff, even if he doesn't kill, the AD ratio, a *fucking TOTAL AD RATIO AT THAT* was just increased to, oh. . . ***220%*** of what it used to be!? And the Lethality ratio went up too? AND HE GETS TWICE AS MUCH FREE GOLD FOR NOT EVEN GETTING A KILL WITH IT. Excellent changes RIOT, just fucking brilliant.
: Is it rng heavy in dota as well? I don’t think riot’s going to back off rng unless the entire internet blasts it. The boards are a fraction of the community.
They removed all RNG from item drops. You get exactly and only 1 item per PvE wave in Dota Auto Chess.
: sounds like gambling XD though there is an appeal to random. It lets you test your luck and puts the opponents on an equal playing field
> puts the opponents on an equal playing field The #1 through #10 complaints about TFT are ALL about how the RNG inherent in every single fucking aspect from will I get items? To how many will I get? To what champions are in the pool, what champions show up for you, what champions show up after you reroll, your position in carousel, what champions will be in carousel, what items are in carousel, what champions have which items in carousel, which champions have completed items vs components in carousel, where will your champs go, who will they attack, etc etc etc fucks up the very notion of there every being a semblance of an equal playing field for anyone in the game.
Psi21 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-06-28T18:07:58.656+0000) > > Nasus doesn’t have a snare. Snares don’t allow you to Flash or dash or blink away. Nasus has a powerful single target slow, which makes him fodder for the other four champions. > > Plus, if you’re whining about bruisers, then you haven’t played against a Vayne top, a Lucian top or any ranged toplane yet. They are the ones who are ‘ruining’ top lane. Nasus's Wither - "A unit is slowed has reduced ***movement speed*** for the duration." Reducing a champs movement can be said as snaring them. STOP TROLLING Bruisers/Juggernauts/Melee/Tankie dps butting heads isn't skill. As the game plays on especially juggernaut just play into this role even further bluntly relying on their hp rather than items or skill that could be used to close the gap and neuter a range champion. The plays are just near non-existent with these tankie dps players when they could build or think a little to accomplish the kill on the paper thin ranged champ.
You don't even know the CC names in LoL yet you're going off on someone who's bothering to take the time to correct you. what the actual fuck. Learn to fucking read before you run your mouth. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Root https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Slow
: > [{quoted}](name=Yets4240,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-06-28T23:26:11.805+0000) > > Mundo only has HP regen as his bulk. Get a GW on him and he loses 40% of all of his defenses instantly, and he has to nuke a whole fifth of his health bar just to turn that on. > > Your comment isn't worth the time it would take to do the math, but simply put, {{champion:111}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} will always be harder to kill than {{champion:82}} {{champion:36}}{{champion:83}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:420}} ceteris paribus See this type of comment with its condescending attitude is *exactly* what I was talking about. I *know* that Mundo is a Juggernaut, not a tank, and that GW guts his bulkiness, I was referring to the type of player that calls Mundo a tank because they don't know what makes a champion a Tank in League.
So trying to correct people, bring up actually accurate information, countering the inane claims that "juggernauts = tanks," discussing the fact that juggernauts are bulky through healing, and you can get GW to severely hurt them, and mitigate most of their defenses, vs tanks who have resistances which you need pen for, and are almost resistant to GW due to not being balanced at all around having any form of healing or sustain is now somehow not worth talking about or discussing, just because so many people that play this game are dumb and don't even understand the basic fundamentals of what the fucking roles even are? What the actual fuck. No wonder this comment thread is downvoted to oblivion.
: > [{quoted}](name=Raeny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VcYayMF6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-29T20:33:18.449+0000) > > Almost like you forgot ADCs are the most baby class in the game and when there was finally some diversity in bot lane they bitched their way into getting mages that played there nerfed. Adc is the only role where marksman are allowed to be played. Any time they leave the role riot guts them. Lucien mid Vayne top Kog mid Varus mid Ezreal mid Ezreal jungle Etc etc So yeah. When they are only riot approved for one role, they have a right to be a little pissed when others start moving in on it.
LMAO, more like Bot lane is a position handed to ADCs on a silver platter, where anyone else who so much as steps foot there is banned for trolling, or if actually successful, nerfed out of viability within 2 patches, even when RIOT just two weeks before explicitly made announcements and plans to "open up bot lane to diversity" after they finally fucking acknowledged that 1 of 5 positions is held captive by 1 of 13 sub-classes of champions.
: > [{quoted}](name=Grouchy Poro,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-28T17:52:07.269+0000) > > tanks don't exist {{item:3115}} Nashoors Tooth doesn't even offer anything penning.
I think the idea is it converts AP which is typically a burst damage source, into a sustained damage source, which naturally counters tanks in general, though I think its a bit of a stretch by itself. The fact that its often paired with liandries and %hp damage on top muddies the waters imho.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yets4240,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-29T03:30:23.248+0000) > > Man, I feel bad PB wasted his time trying to talk to you. You either didn't play back then (or certainly didn't play top lane) don't remember, or you have no clue what makes a META. > > Just so you're aware, the word META is actually an acronym for the Most Effective Tactic Available. It drives me a bit nuts when people say this, that is more of a "backronym". In the very early days of online gaming meta actually meant the game within the game. For instance, League has rules like any game. Levels, gold, last hitting, cooldowns, stats define what those rules are. 1-3-1, splitpushing, who goes top, mid, jungle etc are part of the game within the game. Unlike the hard and fast foundational rules, the rules of the inner game can change very frequently which we now refer to as the "meta changing." After the word "meta" became prevalent within the gaming community did someone come up with some clever meaning for it.
I think you are a little confused. People talk about changes and shifts in meta as different tactics become the best, or as more people adopt the previous meta, so counter strategies to the old meta become the current meta, as most people will still be playing the old one. Or perhaps you're confused by the term "meta-gaming" which, though it sounds similar refers to playing a game within a game, usually meaning strategizing to find a (or a new) meta by testing or theory-crafting different strategies.
CurS1VE (NA)
: you guys are literally idiots https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S6/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/patch-ALL/role-TOP/league-ALL/ (just look at the picks // wins if you honestly think it wasnt tank meta, the most picked the most wins for the most picked like it's all there) Even bot lane was dominated by Braum and Alistar the best picks were tanks. S6 was flat out a tank meta and its really insanely mind blowing that you guys have such a bad memory. It was Tank Top, JG was either super Aggro early snowball or tank, Mid was standard mage with scaling, bot was all about super scaling marksmen and support was in a weird spot cause you had standard picks but you saw enchanters starting to come in. tanks were literally the way ppl climbed, tanks were so strong that almost all the core tank items had to be nerfed after that season, we had to have ekko basically changed to be just a ap champ and same with champs that weren't even meta because of how strong the tank items were; you lock a tank in the top lane no matter the situation it didn't matter, you might get some split pushers like fiora for sure against you but the standard most dominate pick in top lane was a tank and because it was so important to have that power tank it made it meta because almost every team went and almost always drafted a tank. This is just a ridiculous discussion now, if you don't think S6 was a Tank meta then just wow is all i can say.
First you should actually read what Yets said, and try to understand what the fuck meta even means before continuing. ~ I take it you'll have had a chance to do so. Now then, by that list we have: {{champion:13}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:78}} (first tank) {{champion:48}} {{champion:8}} ~ So, 1 out of the top 5, in their most dominant role, pretty convincing that they were overall stronger than every other champion and dominating multiple roles most of the ti-- wait no, they clearly weren't, but lets continue. {{champion:245}} {{champion:150}} (Gnar is a unique playstyle according to RIOT, but some count Mega Gnar as a tank, so .5) {{champion:57}} (Second actual tank, ranked #8 with 23% presence) {{champion:127}} {{champion:117}} ~ So out of the top 10 champions in top lane, 2 to 2.5 were tanks, at rank 3, 8, and 7 respectively. They weren't even the meta for top lane; let alone for the game state. Your own source don't support your inane and ridiculous claim. ~ But, since you've provided a data set, wanna know what else it shows? Lets check winrate, since to be the most effective tactic available, surely tanks would have high winrates, right? {{champion:163}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:31}} (unique playstyle according to RIOT, but really feels like an AP juggernaut, similar to Singed) {{champion:27}} (oh look, same as above^) {{champion:90}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:78}} (Finally! Our first tank! Poppy coming in at #9) {{champion:127}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:98}} (Number two tank, sliding in at 12th highest winrate) {{champion:39}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:111}} (A third tank at least, all the way down at 15th highest winrate) ~ I wanted to find a similar amount of tanks, a good 2-3, but had to go down 15 places to find them. I really don't think tanks were dominating top lane anywhere near as hard as you have lied to yourself or been deluded into thinking.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-29T01:46:15.753+0000) > > They are initiating champions, of fucking course they will start the fights . . . that's literally their only and primary purpose? > > Check the damage charts, ADC are far and away the highest damage dealers, they decide far more of the game and are far more decisive for the outcome than tanks are. Fun fact; Damage is garbage compared to survivability in LoL.
What the actual fuck are you on?
: tanks are obsolete because damage is bonkers
How the unholy hell is this downvoted? Damage is utterly fucking insane, and far and a way the highest its ever been, while also having the most additional damage modifiers, armor/mr pen, access to true damage, and free sustain from dealing damage. Its unfuckingbelievable, and despite people crying for going on three years now to nerf damage, RIOT just keeps injecting more into the game. Hell, their most recent buff to a tank was to increase the AD ratio on a damage skill. Even tanks get +MOAR DAMAGEZ to make them better, for fuck's sake.
CurS1VE (NA)
: well some ppl here still think this is Tank meta I see (super high regard to tanks) someone else basically nailed it, it's not that tanks aren't good but it's about the CC and with so many Mages and even Fighters in general now bringing so so much CC the idea of a tank Engage is like meh because you can draft a Mage (or Fighters) in that same role and it'll have at least 1 really really good Pick ability almost always but also give you another win condition through the sheer damage they bring. Tank meta in S6 was just insanely boring and honestly i'm sorry if any of you are tank mains because this is pretty rough for you guys; i'd prolly recommend not building full tank anymore but rather 1-2 damage items and then the rest tank (depending on the champ) because (like someone else said) Tanks still rely on your team to actually followup when you engage and in soloQ it's like a gamble if ppl will or not, you don't have to build 5 AP on your Cho'gath, you only really need like 1-2 then you can build full tank and you have the capability to tank decently but also put up damage to carry (not full carry or anything but enough to secure kills when you need them).
The meta in season 6 was tanky "utility" assassins abusing bruiser items, and ADC hyper carry, what the fuck are you on? That was followed up by the Ardent Censor meta, again an ADC hyper carry meta, and we're still basically in one atm. The last tank meta lasted a few weeks before the Juggernaut patch (5.26) in season 5. There has not been a single other tank meta before or after it.
: when u realize nunu and voli are tanks
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kelg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T16:47:30.446+0000) > > imagine unironically believing this Its literally true. Pay attention in any competitive match. The tank is generally the person that decides the game, as theyre the primary initiator.
They are initiating champions, of fucking course they will start the fights . . . that's literally their only and primary purpose? Check the damage charts, ADC are far and away the highest damage dealers, they decide far more of the game and are far more decisive for the outcome than tanks are.
: bot =/= adc its both, adc and support
You know there is a bot position. . . and a support positon, yes? Originally, the intent was bot was any carry, e.g. AP carry bot, AD carry bot, etc. But marksman whined their asses off and made that not a thing, so now, actually, bot = adc as the role. And this has been the case for several years now.
: Except they did, what are you on?
LMAO tfw when people honestly believe ninjas existed anything like pop culture depicts. Most of what you think of when you hear or see ninja was invented centuries later, from whole cloth, by various forms of Japanese stagehands again, centuries after the practices had all but died out. Additionally, tales of their feats and numbers are so greatly exaggerated numerous historians don't believe entire supposed "schools of ninjitsu" or whatever the fuck they claim to be even existed at the same time as the events the claim to have influenced. Basically, before anime, manga, video games and modern pop culture utterly destroyed any semblance of historical accuracy the idea of a ninja had, it was already 90% bullshit, 1% distorted history, and 9% make believe.
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PB4UAME

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