HideSide (EUNE)
: Tank items idea
I believe adding a % damage reduction item would be great for tanks, but it could easily be abused by other classes (battlemages, skirmishers, marksmen come to mind). It might need a gate similar to Warmogs where you get a small amount of % reduction based on your resists, or only after a certain amount of total resistance. The damage delaying effect of DD would also be nice to have for a number of reasons; however, I think it might be problematic to add both.
: If you can't easily explain a champions kit to a newer player, then that champion shouldn't be in league. I dont know who came up with him or why he has to have all this crap in his kit, but boy what a mistake. League became popular due to the simplicity of the game, it was super easy to pick up and play.
Remember when RIOT actually gave a fuck about *Burden of Knowledge* and *In Game Clarity?* Pepperidge Farm remembers. . .
: That would help a bit, but she still has 3 dashes.
I count 4, E back, E2, R1, R2, add in a flash, and a free movement steroid with hella uptime on her passive, and if we revert shroud she has another blink. Giving her basically an always up movement steroid, a strong spammable slow, 4 dashes, one with infinite range, and 2 blinks.
: She is utter garbage right now. I used to play her and agreed that she was strong. Now Irelia needs a soft rework again so that her buffs wouldn't make her unbearably stupid to deal with.
From what I can see she's hovering just under a 50% winrate in top and mid in most regions as supposedly a high skill cap champion, that only has around 1% of her player base as mains with 50+ games on her. That's honestly about where she should be, and airing on being too strong for dedicated mains, who have a much higher winrate.
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BjrwfU0I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-13T03:00:59.951+0000) > > OK, here's the thing. Irelia, in spite of everything you think is functionally a fighter and not an assassin. Her core build is Triforce>Titanic Hydra>Sterak's Gauge, with her most common rune being Conquer. That build gives a very significant amount of HP and durability. If a champion is building that and is assassinating people it's a huge fucking problem because they're just better than any champion building shit like Duskblade. Yup, don't need more Renektons in this game. Irelia is a backline deleting monster and she pays for that by being like Riven and having a rough laning phase and trouble matching juggernauts.
Despite literally being designed to out range juggernauts by having higher "melee" range (200) than literally every other character in game just to shit on jugs who were designed to have 175 range to have a minor advantage in melee match ups to compensate their lack of range and mobility, two aspects Irelia excels at. I know its a somewhat minor detail in lower Elo, but man does that shit still piss me off.
: isnt that pretty much the same thing? all those juggernauts want a lot of HP
Juggernauts are range, mobility, target access and easily landable damage restricted melee carries, who, to make up for all their weaknesses and easily avoidable/counterable damage have probably the highest base damage of any class, and the third highest innate defenses of any class, behind Wardens who are the most defensive {{champion:12}}{{champion:78}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:223}} and Vanguards who have the second highest defense, but more engage potential than Wardens {{champion:32}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:154}} Basically, Juggernauts are melee carries sort of like skirmishers ({{champion:11}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:23}}) but they have much less range, mobility, and their damage is very easy to avoid, so to compensate they get much high defenses to allow them to survive making it into melee range of an enemy team, and perhaps survive in the range of all five enemy champs long enough to get a decent amount of damage off.
: As someone who plays electrocute sylas I like some of the choices you went with here(e2 dmg, late game q2) but why remove the fluidity of the kit if you want him to be an assassin? Like rengar, imagine if you couldn’t throw bola mid air, that’s what removing e2-q and aa-w feels like on Sylas.
Maybe just maybe. . . It's because, and bear with me here. . . He's a skirmisher and not an assassin, and never has been an assassin nor intended to be one?
: Nah, the new meme is nerfing Akali's waveclear like thats the real problem with her lmfao
By nerfing the modifier to minions by a whole. . . 8%.
: > [{quoted}](name=LightswornLance,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-12-07T23:06:12.811+0000) > > Neither of those are why solo lane tanks are not viable, they are actually less viable than last season. Tanks will currently don't and never will beat bruisers 1v1 unless they are fed and even then it's iffy. Conqueror no longer having true damage doesn't change that. Plus this season your solo laners have to be your carries due to EXP changes so picking a solo lane tank is just not in your best interest. This is why I play a "bruiser" who mitigates significantly more damage than an average tank while providing cc and utility to my team. Here is a clip from last night when I went 1v4 (more of a 1v2v2) without a completed item against a team that was all fed except for my laner. I was only 2/2/2 at the time while Nunu was 7/2/2 and Caitlyn was 3/1/4. Most bruisers are freelo for me and I welcome a meta where only bruisers are in top lane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZbIl0S1sCU Also, as to your other comment, I've been banning Ryze lately. He has always been stupid but now he is actually being picked.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-12-08T01:23:04.819+0000) > > This is why I play a "bruiser" who mitigates significantly more damage than an average tank while providing cc and utility to my team. Here is a clip from last night when I went 1v4 (more of a 1v2v2) without a completed item against a team that was all fed except for my laner. I was only 2/2/2 at the time while Nunu was 7/2/2 and Caitlyn was 3/1/4. Most bruisers are freelo for me and I welcome a meta where only bruisers are in top lane. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZbIl0S1sCU > > Also, as to your other comment, I've been banning Ryze lately. He has always been stupid but now he is actually being picked. For what it's worth, Taric is a Warden, which is a sub class of tank.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yets4240,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T20:17:36.465+0000) > > Lovely strawman. In your mind. Others think otherwise.
Then why is it negative, and your comment at zero? The above comment with a name similar to yours I might add, is absolutely attacking a straw argument that was not what the poster they were replying to set forwards.
: Malzahar's minions don't proc Conqueror, but Zyra/Heimer/Annie do
Then there is Illaoi whose tentacles are codded as pets, and so all her tentacles together can genereate a max of 1/10 stacks per 5 seconds. Honestly the favoritism and spaghetti code of RiTo games strikes again.
: Great so Urgot going to get another indirect nerf cause Ryze and Cass are overpowered champions
What I would love to see is one of either two things: 1, classify Urgot as melee, as he isn't actually ranged, plays in melee or very near melee ranged most of the time, shoots the closest target in W so has to be basically in melee half the time, has his E which is delayed, 350 range, and only hits if it comes into melee contact with an opposing champion, and finally, he loses lane to every single actually ranged champion from Jayce to Kennen to Vayne to Teemo. Hell, he actually gets bullied out of CS range against most ranged champs unless he gets his jungler to camp top (good joke this season). 2, Have Urgot be considered melee while Purge is active. Basically the same as above, but there is some control over it. Urgot players using {{item:3085}} to double or triple proc his passive with one auto still can, they just can't do so during Purge.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: >fire whomever worked on this one of the two rioter who worked on aphelios is already gone since months the other one is on the free run, releasing no counterplay champions like Qiyana
CertainlyT and Qiyana's designer, why am I not at all surprised this is their combined abomination.
: Actually, lane wise Grasp is stronger. In every aspect, Damage, and healing. You dont have to be in combat with champions for 4s to proc it, simply any combat does. So essentially you get 1 proc at the start of a dual, then once every 4s. Conq becomes stronger mid/late game in team fights.
It honestly depends heavily on the champ, for all ins, no, graps is striclty weaker than Conq, and Illaoi is very much an all in champion. If your champion is burst oriented, again, conq is quite a bit better. Grasp is only better if you want to do repeated, melee ranged short trades without all-ining, and have a good way to engage/disengage when you want to. EDIT: also just to clarify, Grasp is only better if you get two procs off in a trade, stack up one to start the fight before going in for the trade, then staying long enough to leave with a second proc. That's why you need to stay in for 4+ seconds. A single proc gives you 5 HP, a minor amount of healing and a little bit of damage.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: So what's the counterplay to aphelios?
Wow, that is honestly the most fucking braindead, skillless and counterplay-lacking bullshit I have ever fucking seen. Jesus fucking christ RIOT, fire whomever worked on this, and then whomever green lit, jesus fucking christ, its like they forget that pure melees, and immobile champs, let alone immobile pure melees exist in their fucking game.
: Can't you proc Grasp of the Undying on the ghost you attack? Is that not good to have?
It's alright, but she's arbitrarily and nonsensically locked out of Conquer, which is a massively better rune, and is far more suited to her playstyle. Grasp is really only useful against tank match ups, where the extra damage and healing from Conq would already be better. Essentially, in the current top lane meta, if you can use Grasp, you have lane priority, and are able to go in for trades at your leisure (or else you cannot hope to get enough procs to make grasp worthwhile) and stay in combat for the 4+ seconds to get a proc off. If those are true, then Conq is literally always going to be better except in this case where 9/10 ways for your champion to deal damage can only get you a max of 1 singular stack per 5 seconds. It would take her 50 seconds worth of tentacle slams to proc conqueror, which is mindbogglingly stupid and is a clear oversight on RIOT's part.
: You know what it is? Illaoi tentacles are considered pets. Pets proc Conqueror at most once every 5s. Imo, those things are not pets and should 100% be proccing 2 stacks per hit.
This, unfortunately is the correct and imho bullshit answer. Her tentacles aren't and shouldn't be pets, but they are. With the changes to Conq, and the lose of Klepto, Illaoi is kinda SoL for entirely unfair reasons, and has no good keystone to use.
: > [{quoted}](name=Salamencę,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QFIzREhO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-28T19:44:16.698+0000) > > He's been played top since like season 3 This. Heimerdinger being anywhere but top lane is a relatively new phenomenon.
I mean, he was a midlaner forever, and was a MYMU character in S6 designed/reworked specifically for midlane, so. . .
: Jack of all trades except he has the no mobility no cc no invulnerability no straight shielding
Read through the novella of abilities again, he has slows, massively increased slows, global ranged roots and more. He absolutely has CC, and hard CC to boot. He also has shields, so uh, you might want to try reading the post again.
: it's actually only been about 2. he was a very high skill-cap champion up to season 5 or 6, then he got interactions which were never meant for him and quite a few compensation changes (his kit did not mini-stun previously, I don't think his Q was a scaling execute (or even an execute for that matter), his damage used to fall off like crazy come mid to late (no lee sin would ever get a solo kill unless that player was practically a god with outplays and went full burst AD glass cannon which was a death sentence for anyone sane)
Your remembrance is heavily flawed. He's had a suppression on his ult since release, that was actually changed a little while back to be a root instead, so that it could be cleansed not just QSS'ed. His Q used to be a true execute, and was from release (that is, it scales off of enemy missing HP, and converts a % of the HP they are missing into damage, and the percent scaled off of Bonus AD, rather than merely scaling the base + scaling damage it does by a 100-200% interval based on enemy current HP % like it does now). His damage never fell off, he's always had some of the highest base damages and ratios of any AD caster. What made him fall off was that he previously needed to build substantial extra durability, and so would not keep buying AD items to keep his damage scaling as the game went on. Now a days there are far better hybrid offensive items, which now also include the best defensive passives {{item:3812}} {{item:3053}}{{item:3071}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3026}} in the game, or have ridiculously powerful actives {{item:3139}} so Lee Sin and other champs can get the bulk they need, while also continuously doing more damage. Hell, TriForce was even changed to not offer crit chance, or mana, and be a MUCH better buy for manaless ADs, and be more efficient over all.
: More so by them not getting the drake they're allowing the enemy a chance to get them, the dragon soul, and the elder.
The other team would need to get 4 drakes to get the soul. If you're up 3 to 0 or 3 to 1, you then have a 20 minute buffer to end the game before they could even get the soul, and probably close to 30 minutes of a buffer before Elder could spawn.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xrj5ho1r,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-11-21T20:28:25.291+0000) > > I thought Duskblade was buffed in terms of damage no? It just lost blackout is all. it really didnt get buffed, no notable differences, and the passive is still garbage
Its AD was increased by what, 10%? For the same or lower cost, and its lethality was made non-unique. That's pretty fucking big, tbh.
BestGmers (EUNE)
: When you see mages have 3k hp and you are a tank that has only mr and armor with 4k hp and no damage :( pls buff top laners jesus christ just tanks in general , Imagine getting killed in 5 seconds as a tank
The fact that this entirely true statement is downvoted speaks volumes about the infantile player base.
: But but but my pc cafe timer, I need to autowin if you try to drag out a comeback
: > [{quoted}](name=SpongebobIsLife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzVXEohZ,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-11-20T20:38:23.026+0000) > > kled isnt considered a juggernaut, he is considered a skirmisher like fiora if im not mistaken, same with aatrox. Basically, if the champion has a low cd gap closer, its not a jug. Garen has a low cd gap closer technically, as does Urgot. The simple fact is that a juggernaut is a tankier fighter who gives up less scaling defensive tools and hard CC pick potential in exchange for more damage. You can even do a juggernaut test by grabbing that champion and taking him to mid lane against traditional assassins that are not Zed or Akali (zed's nature as an AD mage and akali also having plentiful ranged poke with engage denials make them the only assassins able to deal with tankier stat check juggernauts) and watching them stat check the living hell out of any melee assassin. Kled, Aatrox will stomp even Yasuo or Diana via sheer stat check.
Urgot has only his E which is on a massive 16 second cooldown. Garen doesn't even have a gap closer. What the actual fuck are you talkign about?
Cdore (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Master2139,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZMfnoRZ,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-11-20T21:23:09.156+0000) > > it has nothing to do with where you're from, it has to do with which gen you're from, you talk about rts being pioneered or what not, but those games are all but dead and you wanna know what's recently dominated without anything to with china, battle royales, fast paced, very little strategy and what not. > > But no your right if you don't like the game in this state then it has to be made for china. Have you ever thought perhaps that the genre isn't dead, but companies abandoned the rts crowd for easier money?
At least we still hav Creative Assembly giving us Halo Wars games, and the entire Total War series! Not all RTS games are dead!
: Its still the relic shield line just now there are two options?
Except, those now have a longer cooldown, and have less charges, no longer heal, and no longer provide any HP regen, but instead offer AD/AP, cause tanks *totally* need damage.
: Nothing in Sion's kit even comes close to being tank oriented, even though people claim he's a tank. Look at Ornn's Season 9 rework if you want a tank, and he actually does succeed at one. Level 12/13 Upgrades + Armor/resist in passive cemented his as finally being a strong tank.
LMFAO what. Two AoE hard CCs unmitigated by tenacity, which require staying still, or running straight into the enemy team to land, leaving you quite susceptible to poke, burst, AoE, ground targeted abilities, and puts you in auto range of every ranged champion. His other abilities are an AoE slow, and a shield scaling with max health. How in the actual fuck is that kit anything but a vanguard kit?
koshkyra (NA)
: And just so happens to be in like the top 5 most popular champions
Not even close, those are all ADCs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Diopsideˆ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0tAdxjV,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-19T08:49:47.722+0000) > > Wait for season 10, even more damage and instant executions at low hp threshold, once u claim dragon soul. > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} So you mean at 40 minuts ? less than 5% of the games last more than 40 minuts, so it's one game out of 20. GAMEBREAKER woo.
Did you even read the fucking notes? They even say how the timers are calculated, and even went ahead to show us ***in multiple places btw*** that it can spawn as early as 26 minutes. Not fucking forty. No idea where the fuck you got that, but its nearly twice as late into the game as elder spawns.
: I mean 3 years is kind of a stretch, since there were a few points in time where people didn't even play adc bot lane anymore. Thats how bad adc was. But yeah, top lane sucks rn I only see bruisers cause tanks get run over by conq.
There has literally ***NEVER*** been a ***SINGLE FUCKING PATCH*** in the last ***NINE GODDAMN YEARS*** when ADCs have not absolutely dominated ***BOTH*** pick ***AND*** winrates for the bot lane position. Not a single. fucking. patch. The "ADCin2k18" meme was just that, a fucking meme. There were all of 3 non-ADC picks that were even *viable* in bot lane, but ADCs still had ***MASSIVELY*** higher pickrates, and higher winrates. Not to mention, it didn't even last for two fucking patches before ADCs and their items were massively buffed, ***AND*** the mages who happened to be decent bot were all nerfed.
: > [{quoted}](name=SithesisLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cX3VkYEd,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-11-14T18:32:38.520+0000) > > Nearly 9300 gold vs. just picking a keystone from the most broken rune tree. 9300 gold in items you are going to build anyways?
You're really fucking stuck on this, and ***STILL*** despite a plethora of people explaining it to you as simply as possible, refuse to acknowledge or comprehend the idea of opportunity costs.
imp1313 (NA)
: not much has changed since season 1 for mm .
As someone who has played since before then, you have absolutely and utterly no fucking clue what you're talking about. They've changed their entire modified Elo system at least two separate times, plus the queues themselves and how they match (and who's eligible to be matched with each other, and who can queue with each other) have changed at least 4 times, and they also changed to have the whole division vs MMR system several years in, from a more transparent pure modified Elo system.
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=t3WZ8VE4,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:20:44.230+0000) > > There weren't even 6-8 juggernauts, so no. not at all. > > It was Morde, Skarner and Darius primarily. Garen barely saw any play, and I don't recall Fiora's stats. That said, there were literally only 5 of them, so its entirely impossible for 6-8 to have been picked out of a group of 5 champs. Was Illaoi not played a ton back then as well? Along with Mundo and someone else.
Illaoi wasn't released then? She was released after worlds 2015, as IIRC the last champion of 2015 at the end of November.
IMelchorI (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hppJJ9dl,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-11T19:32:04.823+0000) > > I'll admit, I'm a little confused by your idea about juggernauts having self grounding items? Is it to protect them from knockups and other displacements? > > Also, that's not a bad idea. More grounding effects could be added to the game, not just juggernauts, if they didn't affect sum spells. At least not flash. > > The sad thing about grounding abilities is they are intended mostly for assassins, mobile fighters/bruisers, and mobile adcs, yet....it's always the immobile champs that actually get punished. Think of it this way. Cassiopeia lays down her no-fly zone, but, zed or fizz, or yi, or tryn simply go around or through with ease and make up for lost time with...their mobility. > > Champs like nasus, iilaoi, or darius though, literally have to run straight through, if they run around, her grounding ability already did its job. And if they try to flash or ghost in it...well, good luck, they're sitting ducks. juggernauts dont have dashes = juggernauts do not care that they are grounded. {{champion:92}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:157}} and assassins can not use them.
Except for Garen's Q counts as a dash (mini though it may be, is canceled by grounded), Illaoi's W is a dash, Urgot's E is a dash, Darius' ult is a dash. The only ones who don't have one are Yorick, Trundle and Morde. Even Udyr has a mini-dash similar to Garen on his E.
: > [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=t3WZ8VE4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-06T07:33:06.533+0000) > > Much like juggernaut update Morde. Was it not more like all of them? Pretty sure there were like 6-8 juggernauts per game before worlds were paused back then in season 5.
There weren't even 6-8 juggernauts, so no. not at all. It was Morde, Skarner and Darius primarily. Garen barely saw any play, and I don't recall Fiora's stats. That said, there were literally only 5 of them, so its entirely impossible for 6-8 to have been picked out of a group of 5 champs.
Terozu (NA)
: How do you think I feel? Lux support is still considered trolling even though she was designed and announced for the role.
She was designed so many years ago, that she was made to support Garen in a 2 vs 2 top lane, when it was bruiser + support top meta, and junglers were rare if ever actually present, and ADC went mid. Completely and utterly irrelevant to current League.
: Urgot R Recasting is bugged
As an Urgot main, this costs me kills and or gets me killed at least once most games. Unfortunately targets being pulled in are untargetable and seemingly immune to all other forms of damage. Had an Aatrox and a Singed both live today alone due to my ult auto pulling them in at 4, and 6 hp respectively, when they were about to die to minions, only for me to die to minion damage myself in Aatrox's case (letting him live) and due to Singed's poison trail which my R2 pulled him into me to make me get hit by, when I just ulted him for the damage and slow to keep me out of his poison range.
: it's a good example that the game has always been unbalanced to the people that think through nostalgia that the game was way better back in the day
How is that unbalanced though? Hell, I can think of a dozen top laners alone that could easily do more than that in current League without even being fed or having level advantages. Having 2-3 levels up on people is a *MASSIVE* advantage, that's over 2k gold worth of stats from level ups alone, let alone ability ranks, and the mountains of gold and full build that come with being that fed; then they over stayed and he only had to kill them from at most 30% HP, and blew his whole kit landing double hits with his W and R, while not a single CC was used against him, and no one tried to run away or kite him.
Morbys (NA)
: You mean everyone being below 30%? What exactly is your complaint? He can do that now, except with ppl that have higher hp.
Not to mention we can't see items, but that Talon has 2-3 levels up on everyone of the other team, and that was in either late S3 or early S4 which was an assassin meta where Talon routinely held 53-55% winrates. Using the example of a hyperfed Talon during one of his strongest times in League *ever* where he quickly kills people at 20-30% HP when they all cluster into his repeat AoEs is hardly a good example of, well, literally anything.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjJRTrVP,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-01T00:41:50.387+0000) > > Senna is not locked at all, and it scales with attack speed. .5 seconds is only with no bonus AS. You can easily verify this yourself in all of 5 minutes on the PBE. No, its locked. That is her attack speed delay for her animation itself. You cannot go beyond this animation delay. Animation and attack speed values themselves are two separate things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlRkW7AqLZU Watch this video at anywhere after 25 minutes, and you can see him repeatedly attacking multiple times a second, which a .5 second hard coded delay would not allow.
: I have. The .5 seconds is a built in hard delay. There's a difference between Attack speed and Attack Delay. That's why mages like Karthus/Vlad have dismally slow attack rates while champs like Ahri have fast attack speeds. Even though Ahri attack speed is .66, and Karthus is .625 (not a huge difference). Senna: 0.2 (+ 0 – 68%) (+ 0.425) BASIC ATTACKS: Senna's basic attacks don't use projectiles and her basic attack wind-up is only reduced by 0.6% per Attack speed icon 1% bonus attack speed (compared to the standard 1% per 1%). The Flat .2 seconds will never go down. The 0-68% can be reduced, but only 60% as effectively as other adcs.
You're contradicting yourself. It starts around a half second delay, and gets down to around a quarter of a second with a ton of attack speed. She does have an upper bound to how low you can make the delay, but it sure isn't half a second. Hell, she has .625 attacks a second at level one. Her basic attack windup is only reduced by .6% per 1% AS, as her passive says, but there is no .5 second hard locked delay for every attack.
Meriipu (NA)
: getting dived be yi/ekko/fizz/panth/kled/lebonk is so much fun not to mention tanks like mundo who somehow still deal more damage than an adc yet take no turret damage
Mundo is a melee carry, of the juggernaut class, not a tank for one. Similar to Garen, Darius, Illaoi, etc. Due to their limitation, clear telegraphing and delay of their skills as well as low range, they are actually the highest damage archetype in the game. If they have to both gap close without gap closers or much in the way of CC, then stick to their targets, then hit easily avoided abilities which are also delayed, all while in the range of everyone else, why on earth would they then ***also do less damage than the safest of all carry archetypes, the ADCs which can simply right click to do the vast majority of their damage from between 550-810 range away without being able to miss, or their opponents having the ability to dodge any of their point and click damage?***
: Kindred's hop positioning still makes her tactically better and higher dps. She also has a .2 second attack delay while Senna's is locked at .5 Otherwise, similar, but not exactly.
Senna is not locked at all, and it scales with attack speed. .5 seconds is only with no bonus AS. You can easily verify this yourself in all of 5 minutes on the PBE.
: Pretty sure adc is going to suck ass in s10. Mid laners and top laners are going to be the only roles that matter just like s7-9
You're really going to sit there are pretend that Kai'sa and Xayah are not absolutely dominant in proplay and Worlds this year? Hell in S7 two of the meta defining mid lane champions that worlds were Lucian and Corki, two ADCs played mid, not to mention Kog, Xayah, Trsit and Varus coming in quite powerfully as bot lane ADCs. Top lane has been utter dogshit for at least the last three to four years with the exception of reworked Irelia being a disgusting abomination of a champion. To try to pretend that top has mattered more than ADC recently, let alone for the last three years is nothing short of laughably delusional. Its currently at the worst state the lane has been in in ten years, with the utterly disgusting counter pick meta that essentially decides lanes from champ select. In higher Elos its the least played, most auto filled role, and has been for some time. Hell, you can even check the top of the leaderboards for the role distribution and will barely find a single top laner in the top 50 in any region, yet ADCs are always up there and have been for ten straight years. Furthermore, ADC is still by far the most played and most picked of the 13 subclasses, to the point where on average there are over 3 ADCS picked per game. They would not be so monstrously over represented in pick rate if they were truly as bad as you try to make them sound, nor would they be over represented at the top of ranked ladders either.
: What happened to Sterak's that ADCs caused? >_>; It was made melee only. ER was always an ADC item; IDK what you mean by it was intended to be a bruiser item. It was never built before its rework and post rework, it had AD, Crit and Mana was exclusively built by ADCs. After its third rework, the only people abusing it were literally bruisers. BoRK has historically been built by *many* ADCs(Lucian, Vayne, Trist) and isn't solely a bruiser item; it is an on hit item and intended for tank busting. No Udyr or Olaf would build this item intentionally. Maw never received changes or nerfs due to ADCs building it and ADCs never build it now. GA used to be just a general late game item that traded damage for survivability. It was never exclusively a bruiser item and was honestly more problematic before because your tank could build it and you'd have to kill them all over again. Its since been changed to add AD, actually making it a better Bruiser item. Guinsoo was historically never built. They reworked it and it became a generic on hit item. If a Jax feels like being a squishy PoS, he could build it. I also remember Master Yi *hard* abusing this item, especially when its current passive was a *jungle* item in a time where ADCs rarely if *ever* went into the jungle. Mallet was nerfed not because of ADCs; it was abused by Gnar who is a *bruiser.* None of those tank items received direct nerfs due to ADCs. Not a single one. The only one that was nerfed was Bramble and that's because it completely fucked over top laners. In fact, actually looking, Randuin's lost health for more % reduction of crit damage; it went from 10% to 20%.
ER, Manamune, and IBG were all primarily and originally desigend to help out immobile mana-based AD fighters back in the day (a category of champions since deleted from existence mostly due to reworks.) It was meant for {{champion:126}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:75}} before Manamune was changed to be for ADCS in S6, and ER was similarly changed into an ADC item around then. BotRK used to offer more raw AD, less attack speed, had a lower %hp per hit proc, but had a much stronger active that was also % HP damage, and stole more movement speed, and had a longer duration slow as it was designed to help immobile melee's stick to targets, and was designed to help them counter tanks. It was then retooled into a lower AD, higher AS, higher %HP damage, much weaker active item so that ADCs could better continue their abuse of the item. It used to be absolutely ***AMAZING*** on Udyr and Olaf in S2, S3 and S4, before it was changed into primarily an ADC item. Seriously, Olaf and Udyr used to rush that item into straight tank as their only damage item. It was their most built offensive item by over 3x the pick rate of everything else, including Triforce. On that note, Jax used to build BotrK into Tri into tank as well. Maw was nerfed, its build path changed to have more AD and CDR, it was made more expensive and it was made to no longer stack with Sterak's ***AS THE ITEMS WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO DO, TO STOP ADC FOR ABUSING THEIR PASSIVES BY STACKING BOTH OF THEM TO MAKE THEM IMMUNE TO BURST*** After that, ADCs were ***STILL FUCKING ABUSING STERAK's*** and so it was made melee only so they couldn't even fucking touch it, AFTER nerfing its damage, its %base AD ratio, and changing the build path up, and nerfing the amount of HP it gave but increasing the max HP ratio of the shield. GA used to be built every single game on every tank if the game got late enough. It was NEVER a bruiser item, it was a dual resist pure tank item, one of only two to exist (at a time), the other one was Runic Bulwark which was removed from the game entirely, then a few years later ZZ'rot was added, but that's getting removed this season. It was changed to be an item for ADCs with the ADC update. It was not at all changed to be a bruiser item, though the change does make it better for offensive champions, mostly divers and skirmishers, of which the skirmishers get the far better end of it with their higher damage ratios and much greater focus on offense, and guess what, they are slayers not bruisers. Guinso's worst abusers have been VAYNE, Yi, VARUS. In that order. Note that two of them are ADCs, the other is a melee ADC. Mallet was nerfed because of ADCs opting into it in S3, and has been utter garbage since, and yes it was later nerfed again due to Jayce and Gnar abusing it in top lane several years later, but that was not what I was referring to.
: I mean, ignore Poppy and Maokai then. Revisionist history prevails. Someone on here saying Talon/Zed were building these. No, the only assassins getting it was Ekko and Akali. The rest were actual tanks and actual bruisers.
Talon was one of the top five assassins abusing it, with monstrous winrates. It was Yasuo/Fizz/Akali/Talon/Ekko as the main abusers. Tank Zed was afterwards and existed for a little bit around the Runes Reforge release, but that was more due to the fact that he just needed CDR and his base damage + rune procs was enough to 100-0 squishies, so they built him tanky getting CDR tank items, then splitpushing all day. Poppy and Maokai used to always build a sunfire when against an AD laner, or a SV if against AP. Then they would often get an IBG (before its nerfs) so they wouldn't be ignored for not doing any meaningful damage. That was how they were supposed to itemize and was not an abuse case, nor where they dominating nor particularly strong at the time, as the assassins and skirmishers did their job better, faster, with more mobility and damage and nearly as much durability.
: Yeah, stacking Sunfire never happened.
You mean something in preseason 1 that was mostly abused by Evelyn and Twitch to kill people with the damage aura in stealth, or by Garen who had better synergy with it? That's an ADC, an assassin, and a juggernaut using fighter itemization (such as it was in Pre-Season 1) not at all tanks, let alone a tank meta. WTF are you even talking about?
KABLUMP (NA)
: sorry that you ***might not*** get a class monopoly of a position when your class consists of 20 champions, of which only 5 at max are every viable, and a solid third have been leaking out of your lane and into top/mid/jungle unhealthily for a long time. Since it is basically obligatory to run amarksmen as the bot laner, and they are often in style, I don't see why every marksmen gets to magically own bot lane instead of other tank shredders or hyper carries. You only maintain your dominance due to logistics. Fact is, mages, bruisers, assassins, and tanks are almost always locked into their respective lanes, and have to share those lanes with the other classes locked to their lanes. Problem with this? tanks and bruisers are always stuck between who hard counters who, mages and assassins face the same shit, and then adcs just get to lock in one of their FotM 1 of 5 viable champs that usually are just vessels for the OP adc build and then go down to bot lane. Is cait banned? Just go tristana, same shit after 15 minutes anyways Is Vayne banned? Well here's kaisa! Ezreal? Have a lucian!
Amen. 13 sub classes, yet one has had an utter monopoly on one of only 5 positions for 10 fucking years, while also being viable or meta junglers, top laners, mid laners, and even supports, strong enough to have been picked in worlds and multiple competitive leagues for years, outside of the position they hold hegemony over. They have also for many years and in the vast majority ofmetas LoL has ever seen been by far the most important role, sub class, etc. Just look at all the bot focused metas we've had. Oh, every thing from S2 to S9, with particularly sore points in S3, in S6 and S7 (Ardent Meta, and clown fiesta bot to shut down their adc/get yours fed so they'd single-handedly be the win condition past 15-20 minutes). Hell, the one time, the singular ***ONLY*** time there was any actual ***diversity*** in the bot lane, ADC mains whined like babies and got every other champion nerfed and their precious ADCs buffed after a single fucking week. Not to mention, ADC abuse of other items, particularly tank and assassin itemization has gotten both fucked over for the classes actually designed to use them. Look what happen to {{item:3071}}, {{item:3153}} (originally designed as a fighter item to help champs like {{champion:77}} {{champion:2}} (old){{champion:266}} etc) {{item:3025}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3026}} {{item:1054}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3142}} etc due to ADC abuse. Not to mention, because of their crying items like {{item:3143}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3076}} {{item:3047}} etc were also nerfed to the point where other than Tabi, and bramble (for the GW alone) no one hardly builds those items anymore.
: Season 6 Iceborn x Sunfire.
Assassins abusing tank items to be utter abominations of terrible design is not a tank meta, that was firmly an assassin meta despite them abusing tank items and getting them all absolutely fucking destroyed as a result.
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PB4UAME

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