: I don't think Riot's all that concerned with the state of support, actually. And, as a support main, neither am I frankly.
They actually released a statement a short while ago that they were looking at improving support as a role since it's the least popular role by a long shot (for good reason). Basically autofill is because nobody wants to sup.
Aquafuge (NA)
: reading the argument bounce back and forth, what if riot just added more meaningful stats to sightstone? Make it have options like hp+armor, cdr+MR, move speed. heal/shield buff, or even combine passive stealth detection?
Because the support is still the vision maid of the team. Don't have vision on baron while being pushed into your own base and five levels behind? Support isn't doing their job warding. Kinda like "blame the jungler," it's just a game of "blame the support," and sightstone is the culprit.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Really? I main mid, if Leo or whoever with that item comes up to my lane I stand there and let them get there stacks then there on there way lol.
You're one of few. In all the time I've played support, any laner that actually lets me get those procs, adcs included, are kinda rare. I do typically play in trash elo though, so there is that
: but changing SS wont fix any of that... and you may think it does but i play non traditional supports and i build whatever i see fit ... the only item i never skip is the SS item... just liek a jungler you cant go with out your smite item. anything else is up to you
But you realize there are not only four smite items, but also three permutations of each? All of which come with a different, useful smite ability? And yet a support must always buy ss? So a support gets three support items, all with the exact same active? Incredibly lame compared to jungler diversity, especially considering they can build support, tank, damage, or anything else in-between. Supports get to build... support?
: lol when has mallet ever been exciting ? titanic hydra is a bruiser item ... the only one that is a tank item would be deadsman and its built more on champs who do well with attack speed then tanks {{champion:120}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:11}}
Mallet has always been exciting. Slowing people down and laughing at their inability to get away is great. And Titanic is a big ticket hp item that you don't build unless you're really tanky. If anything, it's more of a juggernaut item, and juggernauts build the same stuff as tanks. Either way though, Dead Man's is 100% a tank item and exciting, so I'll take that.
: but if anything support role/ all roles in game are wide open and more diverse then in seasons pass
It is a much more wide open and diverse role, but it still lags behind every other role in diversity, especially in build path. The only one that comes close is jungle, and the jungle items plus different smites more than make up for that. And more than any other role, supports are starved of gold and levels.
: its a tank item... when have tank items been exciting ? oh and you still get passive gold with it oh and its ok you are gonna cry and bitch no matter what... i have a 2 yr old nephew he kinda does the same thing if he dont get what he wants
Dead man's plate. Titanic Hydra. Frozen Mallet. Your move.
: {{item:2303}} 500 hp 200% regen 10%cdr and +2 gold per sec plus wards plus the passive of {{item:3097}} with the execute and heal your right it has NOTHING TO OFFER
Doncha just love how it's impossible to use that passive after laning phase because laners are too greedy to let you give them free gold? Yeah, woo, powerful, powerful, incredibly exciting items.
: lol you don't know what a ward bot support is... try pre sightstone days where legit every game every support had to get heart of gold , philosopher's stone and buy oracles ... you legit didn't get to have any of the items that now exist for support... and that is all you did and if you didn't maintain at least 4 wards and a pink ward at all times you got flamed
You say that, but that's how games have been going for me recently. And I do remember those days, which is why I really hate seeing them coming back.
Rioter Comments
: Is Swiftness really ALWAYS better than Legendary Guardian?
The problem is that you're unlikely to be in a situation where you're getting the max benefit out of Legendary Guardian, which is kinda miniscule. Swiftness directly impacts your interactions with your opponents all the time. And moving faster feels better than random aura stats.
: _"They don't even say that in a court of law,"_ Yeah, law never uses latin term like "writ of habeas corpus"; that is _oh so **certainly**_ true. Guess what, people in the actual adult world, they actually use those scary, scary big words because professional jobs use specialized terms. Like, _"That's why we trust doctors when it comes to medical issues: because they know what they're doing." _ I know your full of youthful naïveté enough to say something like this, but you should set aside your willing ignorance and trust me on this one.
Apparently you need to learn to read, Mr. Big Adult Person Who Understands the Way of the World. Of course they use latin terms. I never said they didn't. I said they wouldn't say anything quite so ridiculous and unnecessary as "circumstantial argumentum ad hominem." See, judges don't like to fuck around. If you're going to say something, you say it concisely. You don't waffle around with flowery terms. My boy, here's a lesson for you: people don't like their time being wasted. They also don't like pompous bastards who enjoy using the longest words they can think of.
: Hey. He's the one who went into a discussion on arguments and he is the one who decided to throw out the term "logic" while using none of it. Dictionaries and "common sense" have nothing to do with it, this is just the terms of his own stupid argument. By the way, it's common sense to know reality has nothing to do with the person talking about it.
If you need to use the term "circumstantial argumentum ad hominem" to make a point, you've already lost. They don't even say that in a court of law, which would essentially be the only appropriate place to use it. Just say it out loud. If you're not convinced a hand should magically come out of thin air to slap you just for uttering it, you desperately need help.
: > [{quoted}](name=PHoToS999,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W7BTd9JY,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-02-12T15:16:34.055+0000) > > Dueling adcs as Tahm is the most ridiculous and hilarious thing ever. Frozen mallet only makes it better. If by hilarious you mean painfully cancerous to watch to the point you have to move the screen to not puke blood... Yes, It's VERY hilarious.
Yup. That's exactly what I mean.
DopaFeed (NA)
: {{champion:223}} """""as long as they aren't ranged"""""
Dueling adcs as Tahm is the most ridiculous and hilarious thing ever. Frozen mallet only makes it better.
Cherysse (NA)
: Riot can we get Magicblade as a keystone?
They could probably just fold it into Fervor somehow. Maybe give fervor itself a negative ap ratio and add on an on hit aspect that deals a flat 5% of ap. The negative ratio would remove the stacking fervor damage, but grant the 5% on-hit. They'd just have to make the scaling such that it takes like 200 ap to remove the entire fervor damage, that way things like IBG don't mess it up. Naturally, after that point, more AP wouldn't remove any more damage.
Rebonack (NA)
: If you're set on killing Dominion, Riot, then let it go out with a bang instead of a whimper
WTFMatee (NA)
: Don't constantly take raptors and wolves from your jungler
It's really the worst when my team is behind and they keep taking wolves. I can light up an entire fourth of the map, but they can't wait for me to smite...
L4T3NCY (NA)
: Couldn't agree more that LoL needs some better options for "shorter game modes". We do what we can with Featured Game Modes when they release. I want to address the "chicken & egg" analogy for Dominion support here as well. The large majority of players _immediately_ bounced from the mode even when it was first released, preferring Summoner's Rift gameplay instead. The "capture & hold" style of gameplay didn't translate well into a MOBA and players voted strongly with their time: they spent it in SR instead. We certainly could have spent the time & resources to design out the problems and mitigate floors in Dominion, but we recognised an already better experience existed in SR. It had more strategic choice, clearer game-state and a wider variety of satisfying roles. The team chose to double-down on SR instead of splitting between both SR and Dominion. At that point we should have _clearly_ communicated this to you guys, which we didn't. That sucked and it's our bad. Dominion's map shape + capture & hold gameplay was going to have diminishing returns for design time spent on it: and players still just wanted to play SR. I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR, rather than splitting focus on Dominion.
The problem here is that a lot of that immediate bouncing you're talking about was due to fumbles by riot. The big ol' draft fiasco, along with other failings, destroyed what little following Dominion could have garnered. We're not upset that riot "chose to double-down on SR instead of splitting between both SR and Dominion." The problem is that dominion is a good game mode and had the potential, but got shit on because riot didn't take care of it from the beginning. And all Dominion needed was some tiny modicum of attention to be made better, and when it finally got some of the attention it deserved, Riot stole it away to work on SR. It didn't need a lot to give it an upward trend in play, but Riot never gave it a chance. This is not because of Dominion. This fiasco is a relic of Riot's failings.
Conncept (NA)
: Dominion is significantly easier to balance than the Rift, there is no farming and no carry system since it is nigh impossible to beat the passive gold and XP gain. Its balance issues were in movement and skill uptimes and early game carries, all easily addressed. The only thing that made balancing dominion difficult, was that no one ever even tried. Plus, the queue times, bots, and low player percentage are something that developed over time, and only got this bad very recently. Dominion had a more than large enough playerbase for _several years_ after its release for riot to have supported the game mode, and they didn't even try, not even for a day, let alone the years they had, and that playerbase only decreased _with_ Riots neglect and abuse, not in spite of it.
MWAB tried, and then they took him away.
: Please don't buff my main....
Don't worry, they'll nerf him afterwards... once every is done using him... hue... hue... hue...
: That is not logic; that is the opposite of sound logic. You are just engaging circumstantial argumentum ad hominem and that is not valid in the least. You know nothing of logic.
And you need to calm your tits and get your head out of a dictionary. He's saying he's more likely to trust a more skilled person's opinion. Boom. Is your mind blown by the raw common sense? That's why we trust doctors when it comes to medical issues: because they know what they're doing. That being said, rank has nothing to do with these arguments. The vast majority of players are bronze, silver, and unranked. If something is running unchecked in those elos, then it's affecting the majority of the playerbase and should be treated as a problem. Not that it should be hotfixed or disabled or anything extreme like that, but that it should be considered as a problem.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malhammers,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zy6L4b5z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-08T20:10:04.408+0000) > > Rammus. Thornmail. W. > > Watch Udyr commit suicide. Yah watch the AP focused udyr kill themselves as they do nearly 0 auto attack damage to Rammus and thus near 0 return damage? Plus Rammus would never get to the 650 MS Udyr. http://puu.sh/n0FOE/4a56a2e1b2.jpg
Rammus's thormail passive isn't dependent on how hard he's hit, it's about how often he's hit. lrn2rammus
: > * What is expected from this rework ? * > * A better poison with new mechanics ( miasma) * Flexible build path , Being able to max q over e or e over q * Less dependance on Twin fangs . * A new passive * the ultimate should feel more cohesive to the rest of the kit and rewarding This is pretty in line with what I understand to be a viable direction for Cass. As far as a better poison goes, this is something I'm pretty interested in exploring, and I agree that Miasma seems like a good place to start with that, though it's possible the passive could be a viable path here as well. The notes about being able to max Q or E seems like it goes pretty hand-in-hand with less dependence on Twin Fang. I do feel like it's worth mentioning here that my understanding of Twin Fang is that it should remain a spammy ability, but that it shouldn't be so dominant as to make Cass feel one-dimensional, which I do believe most players think she is. Either a new passive or a modified one is definitely a possibility, though I think there are some positive effects of the current passive that would be nice to retain (not needing to build a ton of CDR, some sort of sustain for a shorter-range mage). As to the ultimate feeling more cohesive and rewarding, I agree it would be nice to blend some of the poison/petrify identities going on in her kit, but I do currently see this as a lower priority than some of the other stuff mentioned here. As to the reward of Petrifying Gaze specifically, I know players have issues with how easy it can feel to outplay the skill as an opponent in some scenarios, but I do feel like the spell is actually really rewarding when I get opportunities to use it cleverly by ducking into brush or behind terrain. Thanks for the thoughtful write-up!
I've always seen Cass as a spammy, aoe control mage with a short range option. Instead of Twin Fangs being "how cass kills stuff," it feels like it should be a "kindly fuck off" to anyone who gets too close, kinda like actual snakes. It'd be super cool if Twin Fangs got a damage amp depending on how close someone was to you. It'd give it a real identity aside from her poison as well, since maxing it first means you're going to be trying to walk up to people and wreck them, while maxing a poison first means you're going to be trying to keep people away. And the passive is just one big clusterfuck. A) 25% cdr is a nightmare for ocd. What madman decided that would be a good idea? If you want max cdr, you _must_ waste 5%. IT FEELS BAD MAN. B) Dominates your early playstyle such that you must be a bully with your poison or risk not hitting your power curve. And god help you if you get behind in lane such that you can't poison safely. C) PLAY THE CARNIVAL MINI GAME FOR RAAAAAAAAAAAW POOOOWEEEEEEER. Yeah. It feels bad. You play a mini game and receive raw power. It's not even a curve. At some indeterminate point in a game, you may get a ridiculous damage amp, depending on how well you played a mini game. The old passive felt good. It had one big problem, and that was that you needed to Q every few seconds to keep the stacks going, because wasting mana on self Q's was more cost effective than not. At the same time though, its problem is "you had to cast more spells." That's an infinitely better problem than anything in the current passive. As an aside, it'd be really nice if her ultimate had a small circle around cass herself. A lot of the time, I'll miss because they happen to be pressing their face in my butt. It's really frustrating when my biggest "oh shit" button becomes worthless because they're within arm's reach. tl:dr I WANNA CAST MORE SPELLS AND I DON'T WANNA PLAY MINI GAMES
: How to make the support role more attractive
This would actually be amazing. It'd incentivize roaming for supports.
: Dear people judging me for banning Blitz
He's one of the most picked champs atm, so it's a pretty valid reason for banning.
: If Jhin MUST go bot, who would best support him?
The meanest combo I've seen is Poppy+Jhin. She has that long range passive to mark people, then the shield once they're rooted, than the stun into a wall, and so much damage all over the place. It's brutal af.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: If they never throw a spell at you, then you can do whatever you want in that lane... Most of the Supports today have only one powerful spell with heavy CC, and the other spells are working only when you combo them perfectly. If the enemy Support doesn't want to use that powerful CC to engage, than he/she can be easly ignored. One more thing to note is that Sivir isn't forced at all to play passively. If she wants to engage, you either do something, or you just Auto-Attack a champion that can do loads of damage in a short trade.
Most of the popular supports have an aa modifier they can use with impunity against Sivir. Thresh, Nami, Janna, and Sona all have the ability to make their autos hit harder. And any support that can buy frostfang deals extra damage on autos too. Poke supports can use multiple spells to break the shield and deal damage. Even still, you can just focus the support instead. If the support is getting wrecked, she can't just go be aggressive all on her own. There are so many ways around her shield.
Saixos (EUW)
: Sivir is the biggest reason why I miss mana potions. I used to buy 2-3 of them every single back. I do think that ER helps a lot with her mana issues though, and so does her E. The preseason changes feel like she can't really bully lane anymore due to her extreme costs. Mana issues are probably the other reason why I've stopped playing Sivir anywhere near as much as I used to. But regardless of strength satisfaction is also something to be looked at. And Sivir not working well with any of the keystones is very unsatisfying :/
Saixos (EUW)
: I think Sivir could use a little lovetap
Sivir definitely needs some love, and while this would be a welcome change, I'm not sure it would really solve her problems. She's a squishy, short ranged adc with no instant repositioning. Her abilities fix those problems, but she has no reliable way to regenerate mana, especially since essence reaver only works when you're critting stuff. Manamune fixes this, but takes so long to get built up and neuters her early and mid game to stack a tear. She has too many weaknesses for her few strengths. I'd honestly prefer just having more ability to use what she already has.
Nahui (NA)
: Well she also has an amazing mana regen mechanic. That's why her mama costs are high.
It's a very situational mana regen mechanic at best. A smart support won't just throw spells willy-nilly and regen all of sivir's mana.
: Lot of the complaints are because she's obnoxious and oppressive more than because she's OP
: >If anyone in this topic deserves to be listened to about wtf dominion is about, it's iPooUnicorns. You've missed my biggest point. Nobody in the dominion community deserves to be listened to about the absolute balance of dominion. The dominion community simply can't stress the strategic limits of dominion nearly as well as the SR community can, so you're going to see fairly lax metagames, like the one IPU speaks of, where things appear balanced because the small imbalances aren't being constantly and consistently exploited, or because larger imbalances are simply being overlooked.
But essentially what you're saying is "Nobody can know, so we can't really talk about it." Which isn't good. We should be trying to get people to discuss dominion, not stop discussing.
: PSA: CC does not effect every champ in the same way
This is a really meh psa. It's more like the advice section of the newspaper. It's also veeeery misleading. Because CC does affect everyone the same way: it cc's them. Unless they're Fiora. That's like saying cc affects galio differently because it interrupts his ultimate. It doesn't affect him differently, it just sucks a little more. If I cc a Yi and nobody follows up on it, does it still affect him differently than Nautilus?
: When you're on a big losing streak on Leauge
Fasmodey (EUW)
: Which title would you want for your mains?
{{champion:245}} Flashy plays McEkko {{champion:78}} Destroyer of Worlds
: Aggressive Adc Looking for Aggressive Support.
I'm interested. I'll add you. If you see me on, hit me up. Put a note on my name so you know who I am though. I'm a very aggressive support. I like to make things happen. I like to make people regret choosing bottom lane. I also like an adc that watches out for me though. I got your back, you got mine. If that's how you operate, we might have something good. I primarily prefer supports that either poke the shit out of people or all in supports. And Thresh. Thresh does both of those things. I also prefer adcs that don't just sit and cs. I don't want to be the only one tossing out poke or warding the bushes. I can't be aggressive, protect from poke, and ward every bush in the game. Supports need help too.
: Buff Movespeed Quints?
That would be really nice. As it is, they're kinda not very useful. They don't feel near as powerful as they used to. Or maybe if MS quints multiplied total ms, instead of just being another +%ms.
: Why is everyone buying Boots of Swiftness?
Swifties are always useful. No matter what. No other boot can boast that. Not to mention, speed feels good.
: what the heck is poppy's damage coming form?
It's coming from the walls. But seriously, that's where it's coming from. Poppy has like zero damage without a wall.
Blac Iyc (NA)
: {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:223}}
{{champion:31}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:75}}
Rezandra (NA)
: @Riot - You need to start rewarding supports
Probably the worst part about supporting for me is {{champion:51}} You did so well! Here's a shiny S+ for you! {{champion:12}} You dirty support, you died so much, you get a D. I love supporting, but damn, really? I keep them alive (often at the cost of my life), let them get the kills, steal the cannon minion from my own adc, and all riot has to say to me is "you're trash, get gud scrub." Of course my K/D is negative. It should be. My kills should be in my carry's counter. Their deaths should be in my counter. My gold goes to making them stronger, safer, tankier. I am literally the sacrificial cow offered up to cover the sins of my carry. And all riot has to say is that I'm bad.
: Dominion is currently balanced better than Summoner's Rift
iPooUnicorns speaks the truth. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Dismissing your blatant ignorance of burden of proof, is the original reply wrong? Are you going to attempt to prove it as such? Or are you admitting that he's right? Additionally, your experience in Dominion doesn't mean much given that the meta isn't being NEARLY pushed to its limits right now. It takes a ton of people to actually push a meta forward. NA on its own (as far as we know), would literally never have discovered how good ~~1-1-2+jungler~~ (EDIT: I have since been corrected)1-1-(Adc+Support)+jungler was if it wasn't for EU in worlds showing them.
The original reply attacks his basis of knowledge regarding Dominion, which is to say, his experience. Anyone who has ever been around competitive dominion for any length of time should know iPooUnicorns. He's one of the big few in Dominon. In fact, he's one of the few names I even remember from my stint playing Dominion seriously, aside from Sauron, who made the best tier lists. CHEESECAKE ALL OVER THE CEILING!!! But on the other point, the meta was actually very much experimented with. While the normal meta for lower level play was "secure three, never give them up," the sheer amount of experimentation in composition was incredible. Not to mention, the revive meta was so pushed by the community, MWAB made revive into a trinket. But the bot lane was so ridiculously good for experimentation. I was able to take Warwick solo lane in dominion. I didn't always win, but he actually could lane and not be painful to play, or play against. AD Malzahar was birthed in dominion. If not for Dominion, AD Malz jungle wouldn't be a thing. Hell, AP Alistar works in Dominion. Everything works in dominion. Dominion was made for making everything work. Not only does it work though, it's fluid. Doesn't work? Change it right in the middle of the game. And on the point of "outright broken," there was a real reason most tournaments made special rules to ban out certain champs, or gave each team six bans instead of only three. If anyone in this topic deserves to be listened to about wtf dominion is about, it's iPooUnicorns.
: @Riot: Could you possibly make Poppy's E just a little less buggy?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
PWYFF (NA)
: The Preseasoning: Day 1 Open Forum Discussion
About removing mana pots... So what about all the mana hungry supports and junglers? For someone like me, who only plays mana hungry champions, I'm always buying mana pots. For most of the champs I play, you can't just go and buy a dedicated mana regen item to compensate, because that delays so many other better items, and is eventually worthless. Of course, I have a dedicated mana regen page for my supports (and yeah, I still need mana pots afterwards), but that still leaves my junglers in the lurch, since they can't run mana regen. Are you going to buff machete mana regen? I really don't want to have to take trailblazer on every jungler... As an aside though, would it be possible to let spellthief proc give back mana?
: Hi Sylvrd1, Warwick is one of the champions that pretty regularly shows up on the list of 'champions to work on', but I don't think there are currently any plans for him. That said, there weren't any plans for Garen, Morde, Darius, and Skarner until May, so who knows... If you don't mind me asking, what is it about him that makes him your favorite character?
If you don't mind me chiming in, I've got some light to shed on that question. I've mained Warwick for a few years now, so I should hope I can. Personally, it's that fantasy of making people afraid of being alone. Of them knowing that you're coming for them and them alone and there's nothing they, or anyone else can do about it. Help is so far away, and it won't reach them in time. The big problem with this right now is that the main way to do that is with damage, and a lot of Warwick's damage got nerfed fairly hard. Not to mention, damage means you need to be ahead. Without being at least somewhat ahead, Warwick doesn't have terrifying levels of damage. Of course, that's also very bad for game health, for a bruiser like Warwick to have terrifying levels of damage. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd say explore the direction of increasing Warwick's single target effectiveness. I know Poppy's ultimate is a travesty, but this kind of idea, that a champion is coming for you and can't be stopped, is the kind of fantasy that Warwick thrives on. It might be possible to make it so that Warwick has to commit to going after a single champion, which would increase his effectiveness against that one champion. I don't recall which rioter posted the kit way back when Warwick was getting looked at, but it was a travesty. Don't pursue that kind of path forward, please.
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PHoToS999

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