MrdeRooy (NA)
: " We can enforce objective breaches because the evidence in those situations makes the outcome clear. If, for example, in a contract it says the org would provide a computer - and they fail to - we would be able to enforce the contract." The coach and manager never received PCs like their contracts said they would. So thats breach of contract and you guys did nothing ?
quick clarification: we fined TM for not providing the computers, I assumed that was known from the initial ruling. We were able to push TM hard to provide the computers, but the contracts weren't so stiff that if they didn't immediately provide them, the team would get kicked out. We took that into consideration in the fining.
: The Final Countdown [Editorial Update]
  Rioter Comments
Keayne (EUW)
: Is this gonna be like an Minigame outside of LoL with LoL stuff or wut? I don't really get it, but it looks really fun in your rabbit whole... O.o
Mini-game outside of LoL, no attachment, just thematically inspired by :) It's a standalone game jam!
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  Rioter Comments
: Some of your links on the bottom are giving me 500 errors.
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
Nefas (NA)
: If it's intended behavior why is it banned in pro play?
> due to miscommunication, the behavior was banned for pros.
: You know, it doesn't need to be a perfect communication channel for you to use it. I just want to be able to communicate with Rioters without having to go to four different sites to do it with, and this was a nice way to get a conversation going.
Absolutely - now I'm trying to scale that out to more people so that when we set off running it actually takes off. I know it doesn't have to be perfect but it can definitely be improved. IN OTHER WORDS I'D LIKE TO HAVE A COUPLE THOUSAND OF YOU IN CONVERSATIONS, HELLIONING.
: Well that's disappointing. The last post was 20 days ago as is; I understand you weren't exactly working through the holiday season, but still.
It has less to do with "do we have a pile of things" and more to do with trying to ensure we're doing the right work. While I'm not saying low visibility is a terrible thing if the discussions are good, I suspect there's a better balance to be had and I don't want to burn anyone out on a lot of work if we could be doing it better with better channels. Sometimes it's not good enough to just do something because it seemed like a good idea, I like iteration!
  Rioter Comments
ploki122 (NA)
: > I’ll probably use my monthly slot as an open forum to talk about what new things you’d like to hear from other teams. I have 2 main topics I'd like to talk about which are on a bigger scope than just a small Q&A question like this (so either a topic with the right person or a blog or something). As a Big Data-enthusiast, I would really love a Big Data post. I feel like there are more and more "Big Data" posts, like the Vayne Ping one recently, but it's a lot more about presenting casual side-projects (like a lot of teams do) than actually talking about Riot Games' data. I would really appreciate it if you could hook up someone works with the database, from my point of view, there are at the very least 3 different "scopes" at Riot Games that englobes completely different topics : 1. The internal exploitation : The people who work with the database to provide information as needed to the various teams. Might also have to provide various tools to gather the data, as needed. 2. The external exploitation : Those are the various dudes working on things like the API. 3. *The architect* : The various people working on the actual infrastructure which wons a shitload of cash because nobody wants their job. An example of topic would be the "Teamwork OP" video series, where they could explain what kind of information they have access to, and how they define their methodology/terms/etc. How much information is manually worked through, and how much is computed. Another probably good one would be the new tribunal system, and the various implications that a "fully" automated system implies. The other one would simply be a blog about the PBE. Personally, I feel like the PBE is in a really precarious state right now. I would really love to get a blog out of you guys about where the PBE came from, what its original objectives were, how they were met, where it excelled, where it failed, what plans you have going forward... A bti like the Mordekaiser/Tahm Kench threads, but with the PBE system instead. > Chris “Pwyff” Tom - Communications dude How does it feel being constantly refered to as she/her, with a name like Chris Tom which really sounds like "randomly generated male name #4"? In the same vein, I feel like a lot of people started recognizing you as the memelord doing the patch notes. Is it hard to live up to that hype and making sure your memes are always on point? > One of my first big projects was to improve the way we talk about change in League (particularly in design), and you may have noticed the experiments we’ve run over the years, especially with the patch notes. If you look at other companies, what do you feel is the most common problems they have in term of company-player relations? Personally, I feel like there's a massive misconception both within the players' eyes and the devs that communication is only required/positive when the changes are bad, but that's just one among many. --- I've also had a lot of fun asking (roughly) the same generic questions to all the devs, so you're the next one on the list : - What is in your opinion the best/worst niche in LoL right now in term of design (split push, mobile mages, tank supports, poke supports, all in mid laners, AP junglers, etc.)? - Who are your favorite current rioters and ex-rioters? - What would you say is the biggest pros and cons of the current way PBE functions? - Favorite champion? - What design from another game would you like to see in LoL (even if unrealistic) and why? - If everything was to be turned into ice cream, what side dish would best accompany your SO (or best friend assuming there's no SO).
> big data insights Interesting - I suspect the Clairvoyance dev blog could have some of those subjects sprinkled in. Duly noted. > PBE confusion I agree - there's a lot of confusion around how the PBE is used (often for load-testing, but not for precise balance testing, due to the player imbalances). I'll see what we can do there. > Chris Tom / Pwyff being ambiguous I get that occasionally, but I'm pretty careful about keeping my internet identity and offline identity separate, so as long as I'm perceived as doing a good job I don't care if Pwyff gets the reputation of being a fat smelly lizard. > Meme-y patch notes Scarizard has been writing the patch notes for some time, and they've been getting a little too meme-y for my tastes, but I think it works for his voice. > Looking at other companies I think everyone's got a style, but there are a lot of lessons to be learned. I'd agree with you that I think consistent communication is important, rather than only talking when shit hits the fan. The biggest mistake I think most companies make is an inability to admit mistakes. I'm a firm believer in 'iterative communications' along with iterative design. Being clear about our intentions and goals, showing our intention, and then improving until we hit it. It's easy to go behind a curtain and get obsessed with being perfect out the gate. I think even we do that on occasion and that's something I'd love to work on. > What is in your opinion the best/worst niche in LoL right now in term of design (split push, mobile mages, tank supports, poke supports, all in mid laners, AP junglers, etc.)? Hmmm, I don't think I've considered things in those kinds of terms. If you're talking about role mechanics or functionalities, I've always been a big fan of peel supports like Lulu, Janna, or Nami. There's a fun risk-reward to being the squishy one trying to enable teammates. But then their power isn't as appreciated and it can be tough to balance them in a way that allows them to feel satisfying and balanced. I've never really been a fan of split pushers because of the passive gameplay they create, but I can see the necessity of them to alleviate death ball pressure. It's an interesting balance. > Favorite Rioters idk man but Jag is a pansy > PBE functionality I think we'll talk about this deeper next year. Getting precise balance feedback from the PBE is rarely very helpful, due to the imbalance of player skill, the ping, and the sheer chaos of it. > Favorite champion LeBlanc, Nidalee, Fiddlesticks > Design from another game I think Puck is probably the most fun hero I've ever played, but there are obviously a lot of reasons why he wouldn't work in League. If you're talking a raw design mechanic or system, I would enjoy playing a two-unit champion in the vein of an ice climbers concept. > ice cream I'm just confused at this point in time. Sriracha?
: When do you think the next Riot pls will be up?
Retillin (NA)
: Have you found a format for communicating back and forth with the players you are really happy with? And if so, what one? What is the biggest thing lost when trying to communicate with players?
Not one that I'm super happy with, no. The issue right now is I want to demonstrate meaningful dialogue - find the most contentious topics that players are concerned about and, at least, reassure them we have considered the problem through. If I were to say a current favorite? Probably ask.fm if we could just get visibility on good answers and not the inflammatory one. But even with ask.fm you can't give additional context. It's tough, man. The biggest thing lost when trying to communicate to players is probably when everyone gets a weird interpretation of intent. Everyone attributes malice to what is generally just a misunderstanding >:{
Garrotte (NA)
: For a while there was a period where a lot of communication got pushed to other social media platforms such as twitter/reddit/ask.fm. Do you feel that the platform used influences what questions someone is willing to answer?
The thing they teach every day in communications: the medium is the message. So yes. There's an issue we have of visibility, disparate communications channels, and audience expectations of a medium. It's very complex and I'm not entirely sure how to solve all of it without some serious dev work.
: > [{quoted}](name=LOL Spammer,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=orGt4Gw6,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-12-14T22:49:31.942+0000) > > Are you in contact with "Not Pwyff" ? No, but I am.
Decrit (EUW)
: There is any game in particular from which you have learned a lot, developer communication wise? or that had a certain philosophy you learnt from? or that showed you how to handle 0 cats? How much do i suck at English? :D Anyway, great job dude - after some years of a bit stale communication you managed to communicate to millions of players. How you deal with that? You imagine the audience half-naked?
Final Fantasy XIV was particularly impressive in terms of how it 'reborned' itself. They effectively went from a company and game that lightly skimmed feedback to one that embraces discussion and tries to engage. The challenge is how to make an international feedback loop without overloading everyone... That said, I think each studio can teach a lot about developer communication. There are certainly those who put a lot of effort into it, and you can take lessons from the innovative steps they take to bridge the gap. But lessons shouldn't just be "who's doing what." There are also a lot of cool things to be distilled from the studios who don't prioritize communication. In some ways they get the 'benefit of the doubt' more often because their audience is so used to setting their own context. But when shit hits the fan, there's also a larger uproar about a lack of ongoing communication. So I've seen the entire spectrum, and I spent a lot of time reporting on MMORPGs and games with strong online communities, so there's a lot to learn.
aperson1 (NA)
: Complaint: I don't know how involved you are in its production, but the Patch Rundown is basically complete fluff. All I see is a bunch of Rioters patting themselves on the back over a change while the 4th guy awkwardly sits there and laughs. I was looking through old patch notes on a nostalgia trip and came across [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drNRCr8KTPA) old preseason 3 Patch Preview video. Instantly at the beginning of the video I know which changes are going to be discussed. Despite being less than half as long as the patch rundowns it easily covers just as much information, and I could skip to any part of the video and instantly understand what change they were talking about without having to sit through some stupid in-joke. I'm not saying Rioters shouldn't have any personality whatsoever, but your changes affect a lot of people's enjoyment of the game and if you're going to talk about them you better, well, talk about them. Sorry if I'm yelling at the wrong guy about this.
Nah, you're talking to the right guy. So I've got Scarizard directly trying to tackle this issue next year to get the Patch Rundown to a more authentic place. The question I'd ask is this: what should the patch rundown be for? Right now I think the larger issue is we have *one* piece of video content trying to serve multiple purposes, and ultimately failing at all. If I could flip back the curtain, our goals are: * Humanize the League design team * Discuss contentious changes, show our thought process * Engage in a meaningful discussion on changes For others, however, the patch rundown is seen as a vehicle to communicate what's changing. Should that be our goal? Are players happier if we just tell them "this is changing and here's why" a la patch note format, or do they want to see discussion on the topic with people they trust? This is basically the space we're grappling with. In an ideal world, I'd love to have two streams of content - one high level TL;DR of the patch notes for quick, easy consumption, and another focused on deeper context. So what are your thoughts?
hopeful4 (EUNE)
: I want to know if there are any plans for creating an RTS engine for LoL (or whatever is called, im not very familiar with these things), which will allow to control other units reliably and make the extremely few existing RTS-like interactions (Annies bear, Mordes drake, Shacos clone) less awkward to play I know that LoL wasnt designed with that mind, since the champ is always ''locked'' to the player, but what do you think now? I think that it would open up the game much more, in all aspects: new champs, reworks, items etc. It would add more depth to the game and it would help the current project of the rework department to make some champions more distinctive as well, since they will be given more choices
This is an interesting question. Up front: I don't think there are any plans to scope out pets into something deep and expressive. I believe the current view of pet controls is "tolerable," if not very exciting. You mention that adding pets / pet controls would add a lot more depth to the game while also offering more avenues of kit ideation (and skill expression), I wonder about that. You can add any sort of mechanic to a game to make it more 'complex,' but good game design is about the *right* combination of complex mechanics. If CS:GO suddenly added bunny-hopping into the game, it certainly becomes more complex from a movement-shooter based perspective, but it loses out on the type of game it wants to be. I'm assuming that adding a second unit to control beyond basic movement (aka the current system) will raise the mechanical complexity of the game, but if this assumption is true, should that be where League's design focus is on? Most designers would say there's a lot of really cool space to explore with single-champion kits. Perhaps there could be a champion designed with the 'illusion' of pet play - maybe a multi-unit champion with pre-defined positioning based abilities (hello, Orianna) - but the better question is what a complex pet system offers over other new systems. Now that I've laid out the conceptual space, I can offer my own opinion. I think there's room for some cool pet mechanics in a game like League, but probably not the likes of Chen or Meepo. There's this concept of transferable skills where if you learn, say, auto-spacing (heh) with Caitlyn, that's a transferable skill to Jinx. At the very least this allows you to build macro-mastery of League (positioning, map movement, etc) while also investing in the micro-optimizations of a champion. Looking at other games with pet champions, most characters with engaging multi-unit complexity reward the player for: * Cross-map macro play (Meepo teleports and movement) * Multi-unit micro-play (SC2 micro) * A really annoying radiance bear (Druid) I do wonder if the skill investment for any of these is so different for League that a champion who rewards players on these axis just makes them a novelty. The issue with novelty champions who reward players on very unique mastery paths is is you end up with massive disparities between the haves and the have nots, and balance becomes a nightmare. Riven is a great example of this. Do we now balance Riven with the expectation that all players have learned to animation cancel? Or do we just allow this one champion who, when fully mastered, has access to more tools and more power than anyone else? I'm not saying Riven is objectively overpowered, but the more unintentional power a champion can access through clever mechanical manipulation, the higher chance a designer just didn't account for it. This paints a real black and white picture though. Could the pet system be improved even for the current pet-based champions? Absolutely. Is it an absolute priority for engineering to restructure how unit control occurs within League? I'm not sure.
: Actually yes, tell us about the cat you don't own. Do you want one? More than one? What kind? Did you used to have any? Tell us the furry details. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} Thanks for all the work you do around here, btw.
Once upon a time when I first moved from Vancouver to Toronto, I could barely afford rent and lived in a hole-in-the-wall with no heat. Around that time a cat adopted me. She would wait for me on the corner of the block as I walked home from work, and then followed me home every day. When it came winter time, I decided to keep her, so that's my nice cat story. Otherwise my friend had a billion cats and they'd just drape on me like I was a piece of furniture. Those are my two cat stories.
  Rioter Comments
Riot Jag (NA)
: [INTRO] Jeevun "Jag" Sidhu - Technical Game Designer, Live Gameplay and Champions
Just seeing how the past few threads have gone, these are pretty Q&A-y which is cool. I'd also remind everyone, this is a cool opportunity to make requests about what *sorts* of topics you'd like to hear from Jag. Things like "can you talk about the process of designing a champion and update us as you go?" etc. Any cool ideas you want to hear about, it'll give us ideas as to how to pursue them.
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: Can you please ask Morello if he wants to chime in, too? I am certain some people would like to know what the great NMST (Nerf Master Suck Town) is up to these days.
He is on R&D currently, so PROBABLY NOT MUCH WE CAN SAY.
Dathosr (NA)
: Hey Pwyff, speaking of dev blogs, any news on when the next Riot Pls blog post will be put out? It's been four months since the first one, which is a month later than was said in the post.
Every quarter, bby. We're aiming for this month.
Sneak Dog (EUW)
: No Jaredan with something like a narrative philosophy? He has been more active on the forums (yay), but I still don't know why they make/made certain decisions. I know Riot won't talk about the retcon, considering it done with the one dev blog, but how about transferring old characters to the new lore?
We're definitely interested in bringing other teams in to build out consistent content. Right now we're focused on piloting this kind of stuff with game design (a very known quantity) before expanding. So your interest has been noted :)
  Rioter Comments
: At first I want to agree with you here, but then I realize that if I hear that a Talon skin is in process and gets scrapped, I think I would flip shit. So I would have to agree with not doing this
This is a pretty hilarious line of thought.
: For starters, I would like to know what is getting patched in the incrimental patches that happen randomly. I have to download 300+mb and accept yet another eula with no explanation whatsoever. So hotfix notes would be wonderful. Also some sort of list of every current project that is underway. Progress updates would be great, but a simple list would suffice. It could possibly curb some of the "rito please" in the community if we knew you were working on it already.
Definitely agree on the first one. We really dropped the ball on our hotfix communication. In an ideal world I'd like to have a permanent "most recent changes" page that constantly updates based on what we've recently pushed in. As for the second one, a timeline of all projects currently underway or in progress would probably be a little too insane. We did announce most of our projects in the 2016 season update site - if we get better at that I think that does cover.
Swizzle (NA)
: Hey Pwyff, I run a social media account that once and a while takes stuff that Rioters tweet about and relay it to the community to let them know what is going on in the Riot HQ. Nothing leaking content or breaking any form of NDA but just like the thought process behind some changes. One thing they loved was seeing the old Azir Kit. https://www.instagram.com/p/-LVdpwS8Fi/?taken-by=leagueofupdates That was the post about the kit. Look into a section where you guys can talk about changes and thought procceses, talk about the original Thresh kit (I remember watching how the W changed and alot of people will think that is super cool -Swizzle #i am still the captain in case you forgot
nerd. Sometimes we do get into concerns where if we show "here's what didn't work" we can get into large-scale debates with players who just... want that old kit. In other words, we say "here's what you can't have" and nobody likes that. Maybe we should be okay with that, but I wonder where a good balance can be found.
  Rioter Comments
: ehm.. kalista ult? :D edit: ashe ult, sivir ult, urgot ult... sivir uses ER quite well..
Good point - I think Kalista was intended to push the boundaries of just how much utility a markswoman could offer in League (Ashe being the other), and was designed accordingly. Luckily she doesn't build Essence Reaver. I'd be very curious to see a utility Ashe build. Either way, it's worth mentioning most markspeople with on-demand CC have to make tradeoffs in some capacity to have that power / access that power. Mages have it as a standard expectation.
Decrit (EUW)
: well, not every adc wants cdr: that is the sense of what he said. Probably as live Essence Reaver is just so much gold worth that it gets picked up in any case - which then is a problem because is the item itself that is so much powerful that obscures every choice ( kinda what happened with Infinity edge ), and then the problem is the item removing item diversity and not the adcs having a lot of cdr.
Correct. And we can adjust accordingly! Straight comparisons of who gets more CDR and what that means, however, is probably not where the discussion really nets out much.
BADxW0LF (NA)
: You are basically saying that AP champs need to make tough choices when it comes to their itemization to dish out the damage whereas AD champs can just get AD items and have a bunch of them come with CDR. AP need their abilities to do anything meaningful in a battle, so why give the champs who can just PewPew you to death the CDR instead of the the one's who have to wait every time to do anything?
I think I'm saying that Mages have access to a lot more breadth of power than Marksmen and their itemization currently reflects that as well. If a Mage were to become a magic-focused Marksman I think it'd be easier to balance them, but then you'd be effectively choosing between the two. All a marksman has - all that they are identified by - is their pure damage with key positioning. A mage can be that, but they can also be the one who picks off fleeing champs, or controls the battlefield, or catches and blows up a stray squishy.
Retillin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Pwyff,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=B3Pe5U8H,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2015-11-17T20:34:21.820+0000) > > > For the CDR topic, I wonder if the ideal state of Mages is that they are guaranteed to hit CDR cap without much tradeoff or if they can be balanced in a way that **investing into CDR is a meaningful decision** (ie: giving up MR and maybe even Sorc Boots to double down on cooldowns for the additional utility). A world where a mage decides between high-damage, higher-cooldown abilities vs. lower-damage, utility-focused, lower-cooldown abilities seems like an interesting decision if done well. > > In other words, right now there's a large mentality shift of "I will always hit the CDR cap" to "I need to think try very hard to hit the CDR cap." Additionally, since outside of the keystone masteries there hasn't been anything more powerful injected into Mages, it might feel like a power decrease but we have a lot of noise and data we'll need to parse through to see if this is actually true. Are mages weak? Are mages properly calibrated against their core stats (CDR, AP, mana regen)? Honestly speaking I want to see more before just saying "if you raise gold costs on AP and make it more difficult to hit the CDR cap, of course mages are going to be weak," - it's hard to assess that without seeing how the ecosystem of the game actually plays out, not to mention the strength of Deathfire Touch. But I think this is the problem from the outside looking in. Mages have few options to do it, yet AD casters (Ez/Lucian/Corki/ect...) all get it REALLY easy.
The question is also what they do with those abilities. AD Casters get access to CDR very easy, but they can't transform that CDR into an ability that starts and ends a teamfight on a single cast. An Ahri charm at late game can potentially mean a squishy target is dead without using any ability. An Ezreal Q cast on cooldown does not. Really, really important distinction.
: Mostly, the complaint is that these are champions who only do useful things when they have their abilities up; compare this to ADCs, who's autoattack actually hurts. But it's the ADCs that can easily hit CDR cap, without giving up anything at all, while mages can't. It's kinda backwards, and easy to see how this makes people salty.
I edited in an answer regarding that, but I do feel like we're in a bit of a vacuum comparison. A mage using abilities on cooldown can often stop or outright deny a champion threat. A marksman can do the same via a steady stream of damage but we're basically talking variance in power. Mages have high variance - high highs, low lows (no abilities to cast), while Marksmen have less highs but more consistent output. In a balanced world, these two types of damage output would be well balanced against each other, but Mages also get the addition of utility, which needs to be considered as well. I suppose this is a long way of saying damage isn't the only thing to compare and Mages vs. Marksmen can't really be boiled down to individual stat comparisons and who gets access to what. A reverse example (not totally comparable) might be if Marksmen were demanding total AD scaling on Trinity Force procs, similar to Lich Bane.
Rikari (NA)
: Why do mages have such a hard time efficiently hitting 40-45% CDR? Their only viable options are {{item:3174}} {{item:3165}}. Every CD item is now a support item,adc item or even a tank item. Also why Is rift herald a one man buff? It would have far more impact if it was teamwide.
I know Jag had a very specific reason as to why he kept Herald a one-person buff, so I'll poke him to answer here. For the CDR topic, I wonder if the ideal state of Mages is that they are guaranteed to hit CDR cap without much tradeoff or if they can be balanced in a way that investing into CDR is a meaningful decision (ie: giving up MR and maybe even Sorc Boots to double down on cooldowns for the additional utility). A world where a mage decides between high-damage, higher-cooldown abilities vs. lower-damage, utility-focused, lower-cooldown abilities seems like an interesting decision if done well. In other words, right now there's a large mentality shift of "I will always hit the CDR cap" to "I need to think try very hard to hit the CDR cap." Additionally, since outside of the keystone masteries there hasn't been anything more powerful injected into Mages, it might feel like a power decrease but we have a lot of noise and data we'll need to parse through to see if this is actually true. Are mages weak? Are mages properly calibrated against their core stats (CDR, AP, mana regen)? Honestly speaking I want to see more before just saying "if you raise gold costs on AP and make it more difficult to hit the CDR cap, of course mages are going to be weak," - it's hard to assess that without seeing how the ecosystem of the game actually plays out, not to mention the strength of Deathfire Touch. [edit] Additional note on other champions getting more 'free' access to CDR than mages. These kind of comparisons are really weird to me, because CDR is one of those stats that's very closely tied to the balance of the kit using it. CDR on marksmen tends to be very singular in purpose - damage - and often dependent on proper positioning to use well. Most Mage abilities tend to be fight-starters or fight-stoppers, meaning they have the ability to dramatically change the landscape or flow of a fight on a single ability cast. CDR to them is far more valuable and, in their natural item builds, needs to be 'priced' accordingly. If stats were just generically priced without accounting for the stat affinities of the classes purchasing them, I think we'd get some really, really weird scenarios.
: first of all, thanks for the reply (albeit, while i´m happy you share your view, i hope you consider carrying the questions to the official Q&A to get the official/broader statement on it aswell). >Personally, I think a good balance between strategic and tactical. I want to know that there's a team out there who isn't super mechanically gifted but wins on superior drafting, map positioning, and rotations, but there's a team out there who's just shit at the previous three but can eke out wins on sheer executional talent. sort of SSB (strategy) vs SSW (execution) of S4 i guess. well, i hope the game finds back to a good middleground further into this preseason... >Dominion and TT are super fascinating from a design perspective and the space seems very cool, but I think the cost of actually developing its ecosystem and balance will - in all honesty - require a full-on teams much like SR takes to support. so well...while i think that might be true - given your company seems to have enough money to invest millions into creating an esport - why didn´t they consider creating seperate teams for these maps? (even more so as it´s still Riot Game**s** and that would have been sort of easy to broaden the brand).
On the last point - I think you significantly overvalue what money actually brings in terms of development efficiency or attracting talent. We don't hire for "please do this for the rest of your life" - our focus is on "are you a great talent that can work at Riot." We are constantly hiring game designers in all 'ranks' - to suddenly parse off a group for alternate maps when we have so many other needs - core, principal needs that deliver on the vision we want to pursue - is a very, very tough ask. Once again though, game design is like cooking - adding more chefs doesn't make things better. In fact, you can significantly fragment the playerbase in terms of values and design goals if not done carefully.
: I think the main problem people seem to have is that even if DFT is good it doesn't feel good, similar to the problem liandry's suffers from or used to suffer from. If you gave it the same treatment as liandrys ( where the damage is doubled on targets that are slowed/cc'd) it would probably feel better, but I don't know.
That's a good insight - if DFT doesn't feel good, I wonder if it's because it's because it feels like "lost" power or if it just feels really low on the satisfaction scale. I'll relay that either way.
: This is beside the point of the original thread, but I'm honestly getting kinda tired of you saying 'That's an opinion!' or 'You're enforcing an opinion!'. I'm mentally constantly going 'okay, how can I phrase this so it doesn't sound like an opinion?' and that' just making asking questions stressful. Of course I have an opinion on the stuff I'm asking about. That's why I'm asking about it! I don't ask game design questions just because I'm kinda curious on how things work.
Here, I'll change my thing to be: this is a leading question. Leading questions are really difficult to engage with on a discussion basis because you have to say "here's why it won't lead there." Rather than engaging with the topic at hand. It's really tough. So I'll say this: if you're curious about how something works, asks how it works! If you want to convince us of something, don't ask a question, just say "I'm going to post an opinion I'd love for you to consider."
: >I wonder what happens if I leave this comment thread open. mh, guess i´ll just use this to leave you with some Q&A of my own: Qs: - What´s your personal take on the Moba-genre at Riot - should the games be more strategical, or more actionpacked? So far I personally enjoyed league as a more strategical-approach to the Moba-genre, but this preseason really got me confused about your intentions/long-term-visions. - Have you ever considered to not focus on SR for a Preseason, but just leave it as it is (with the ocassional juggernaut-patch to keep things fresh every now and then ofc) and instead use all those ressources to finally really bring Dominion and TTT to life? Those maps are really great to play from my perspective and have lots of unexplored potential. As: - right now there are two main problem from my perspective with this preseason: - Diversity/Items: on the one hand you made an effort to make each marksmen stand out gameplay-wise, but on the other hand you then funneled all of the marksmen to operate on crit. There´s no alternative anymore...before the revamp you could actually play some ADCs as AD-Casters, or bruisers, or hybrids, or as a "classic"-carry - depending on your item-choices. Now those options really don´t exist anymore. Crit is not only slightly better, it´s mostly the only real option. So you actually took a lot of diversity out of the game by making every item "viable" for everyone... - "games are brutish and short": well, i guess your data should support this...but average game-time really took a huge hit, leading to many games finished with 1-3items in the inventory, lategame became sort of a non-viable-utopian-dream. And there are 3 main factors causing this: - less vision than before, amplifying snowballing due to making any environment not protected by towers unsave when behind - less effective hp on turrets, leading to very early inhibitors/more dark areas on the map - the "ad-meta", as ad snowballs just more than ap/tank for two reasons: - most of the dmg is linked to auto-attacks, so you can´t dodge it and outplays become a non-factor, it´s all about stats - they don´t only kill Champions faster when they get more items, but also take objectives faster.
>What´s your personal take on the Moba-genre at Riot - should the games be more strategical, or more actionpacked? So far I personally enjoyed league as a more strategical-approach to the Moba-genre, but this preseason really got me confused about your intentions/long-term-visions. Personally, I think a good balance between strategic and tactical. I want to know that there's a team out there who isn't super mechanically gifted but wins on superior drafting, map positioning, and rotations, but there's a team out there who's just shit at the previous three but can eke out wins on sheer executional talent. >Have you ever considered to not focus on SR for a Preseason, but just leave it as it is (with the ocassional juggernaut-patch to keep things fresh every now and then ofc) and instead use all those ressources to finally really bring Dominion and TTT to life? Those maps are really great to play from my perspective and have lots of unexplored potential. This is me speaking personally, but while I do think Dominion and TT have great potential as game modes, I just fundamentally believe SR is the most 'true' version of League and we would be remiss to ever *not* prioritize its development. As with any development company, we have to understand what our vision is for the future and develop products that push that vision along - not ones that are interesting for the sake of being interesting. Dominion and TT are super fascinating from a design perspective and the space seems very cool, but I think the cost of actually developing its ecosystem and balance will - in all honesty - require a full-on teams much like SR takes to support. If I were to be even more candid, I think we didn't really understand the scope of work we were taking on when we pursued Dominion or TT and we've paid a cost in terms of trust as a result. But once again, these are just my thoughts on the matter.
Pyro (EUNE)
: > Now that the initial shock has worn off, the torches are slowly burning out and pitchforks are waved less angrily, let's ask the more niche questions: > 1. Live Balance aside, are there any plans to do a second take on the marksman items after a few months? Just wondering if there's any chance for some variety (and not everything to build out of Zeal) 2. Why is the Oracle Alteration (almost) the same color as Sweeping Lens? Farsight Alteration changes the color. 3. While talking about colors: why is Eye of the Equinox in a different color scheme than Relic Shield and Targon's Brace? Other eyestones share the color pattern with their GP10 component. 4. Are there any plans to add new (tank?) items to deal with stealthed champions? Some of them got exponentially scarier in the lategame, when there's no room for pinks in the equipment. Something skillshot-based, or on-attack, perhaps? 5. Immobile mages like Vel'Koz, Malzahar and Lux have been sitting at low pick rate and high winrate for quite some time right now. However, Brand seems to be spiking in popularity, both in mid lane and even in the support role. His performance in the mid lane seems in line with other "oldschool" mages, but is his support performance in a good spot? If not, will you please try to avoid killing his midlane like what happened with Zyra? 6. Will the issue of abysmal Riven and Zed winrate (44%, shouldn't be above 50, but that's still too low) be addressed with buffs to these particular champions, their items, masteries, or not at all? 7. What would you do if suddenly the meta made the ADC class entirely optional just like the other classes (tanks, mages, assassins) are? 8. Is the topic of not-necessarily-ADC meta a point of reference in balance discussions at all? 9. At PBE, Staff of Flowing Water was part of the Preseason for a day or two. Was that part of the project that got scrapped, or just a mistake? 10. Who and when will address the problems of auxillary maps (TT, CS, HA) such as Lord Van Damm's Pillager granting less crit than its components? They're more "nitpicking" or "far-reaching" than "interesting". I guess with time until Tuesday, I can try to make them interesting as well :D
Whew, some of these are pretty damn nitpicky. If I asked you why you wore a purple t-shirt today rather than a green t-shirt, I wonder what the answer would be. I can actually answer most of these: >Live Balance aside, are there any plans to do a second take on the marksman items after a few months? Just wondering if there's any chance for some variety (and not everything to build out of Zeal) I think you may be asking for variety for the sake of variety. Right now component items heavily signal intent in terms of upgrading purchases, and the challenge we faced (and talked about in our dev blogs) was that marksmen just want one thing: damage. In pursuit of that, multiplicative damage is pretty much the best way they can stay relevant in the game, meaning crit becomes a difficult stat to 'pull out.' If we were to add new items, they'd have to be meaningful enough to compete with crit as a desirable stat, meaning we'd have to figure out how to offer what marksmen want (damage) in a different way. Impossible? Definitely not. A goal worth pursuing at the cost of other opportunities? I wonder! >Why is the Oracle Alteration (almost) the same color as Sweeping Lens? Farsight Alteration changes the color. Because I think the sweeping mechanic is shared by both and so having the two share thematic coloring makes sense from that capacity. Farsight was colored blue for its initial overlap with CV (rest in pepperonis). Once again, coloring for the sake of unique coloring I'm not sure if it's worth the investment. >While talking about colors: why is Eye of the Equinox in a different color scheme than Relic Shield and Targon's Brace? Other eyestones share the color pattern with their GP10 component. I think we went for the core thematic - a shield - but perhaps didn't feel beholden to green. >Are there any plans to add new (tank?) items to deal with stealthed champions? Some of them got exponentially scarier in the lategame, when there's no room for pinks in the equipment. Something skillshot-based, or on-attack, perhaps? Because I just sent out an email on this: Removing true sight was a deliberate decision because, ultimately, stealth champions have their power budget allocated to being difficult to detect. Giving 'standardized' counters that everyone gets for free means the champion's just kind of... not stealthed after a certain period of time. With the trinket changes, sweeper still detects bodies and we want to see a world where a stealth champion's 'power' of stealth comes with the ability to conceal their health. If player adjustment is a hard - "we must buy pink wards" - to the point where it becomes mandatory to play against stealth champions, we'll fix accordingly. But if players understand this and know how to work with sweepers, maybe we won't need to. >Immobile mages like Vel'Koz, Malzahar and Lux have been sitting at low pick rate and high winrate for quite some time right now. However, Brand seems to be spiking in popularity, both in mid lane and even in the support role. His performance in the mid lane seems in line with other "oldschool" mages, but is his support performance in a good spot? If not, will you please try to avoid killing his midlane like what happened with Zyra? Holy moly you started with an interesting discussion topic but quickly devolved into enforcing an opinion. I'd be curious to understand what changes we deliberately made to Zyra to make her 'dead' mid lane, or if the meta just passed her by. >Will the issue of abysmal Riven and Zed winrate (44%, shouldn't be above 50, but that's still too low) be addressed with buffs to these particular champions, their items, masteries, or not at all? I think we're aware of a lot of power shifts in champions with the preseason changes. We'd love to see how everything is shaking out rather than gut reacting to things that immediately appear too weak or too strong. >What would you do if suddenly the meta made the ADC class entirely optional just like the other classes (tanks, mages, assassins) are? Is the topic of not-necessarily-ADC meta a point of reference in balance discussions at all? Rather than discussing it by symptoms ("what happens if ADCs are only played in the jungle?") we'd like to understand the implications of a change like that. Marksmen don't suddenly get phased out for no reason - there's a cascading number of effects (ie: "taking turrets is no longer difficult for anyone, even inhibitors" or "ramping constant damage is no longer needed because games can be ended with enough burst damge from mages") that will inform a lot of our future decisions. We've discussed a world where marksmen don't appear, I just think it becomes very "explode everything in 5 seconds" kind of thing. >At PBE, Staff of Flowing Water was part of the Preseason for a day or two. Was that part of the project that got scrapped, or just a mistake? I don't believe it ever was but we always experiment with all sorts of things so who knows. >Who and when will address the problems of auxillary maps (TT, CS, HA) such as Lord Van Damm's Pillager granting less crit than its components? I think we're aware of it - I'll follow up.
Numpty (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Pwyff,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=IE6vEmv6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-13T19:28:57.230+0000) > > We'll probably be doing 12pm to 3pm pst. Here, post your questions here and I'll tell you if they're interesting. Hah. I have a question about the Deathfire's Touch mastery, if you don't mind. It seems to me that the idea behind DFT is that poke champs would excel with it, whereas more combo oriented mages would prefer Thunderlord's Decree, for the added burst in their spell rotations. There's a problem, though, in my opinion, in that DFT inhibits the abilities of some of our League's best poke champions. Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'Koz, Karma, Lux, Corki, Kog'Maw. All of these champions' primary poke spells are AOE, and thus only gain half of the bonus from DFT. This means that these champions (with the exception of Vel, who clearly should take TLD) blow their Keystone on something weaker than a Luden's Echo proc! It just seems so counter-intuitive to the spirit of the mastery's design. At this point, the mastery's full potential (i.e. single target damage abilities on a 3s cooldown) is limited to Ezreal, Gangplank, Kennen, Ryze, and Teemo. Only Ezreal among them really embodies a poke champion. So my question is this, do you feel that this should be changed, perhaps by removing the aoe limitation but adding a cooldown? If not, why? If this mastery is not intended for poke champions, who is it intended for? There are few single target poke spells to begin with, and most of them aren't on champions that would usually prefer this mastery to begin with.
So this is definitely, 100%, a super leading question. Anyway. Your comment that DFT inhibits the abilities of some of League's best poke champions I'm not sure if we're seeing the same thing. It's an additive 'burn' to champions on all of their poke abilities. The loss of a single-target damage burn is compensated by the fact that aoe-damage is insanely efficient as a spell-to-cost-to-damage ratio. You're only looking at it from a single-target burst damage / burn perspective and that's very odd to me. So personally I don't feel it should be changed because then the design space absolutely overlaps with Thunderlord's Decree. One is a single-target focused burst mechanic with aoe implications, the other is specifically intended for either constant applicable damage or an aoe-burn application.
Pyro (EUNE)
: Oh bummer. Already had a list of interesting questions :D When will you be doing it, as in hour? As a EU player it's hard to catch up with NA posting times.
We'll probably be doing 12pm to 3pm pst. Here, post your questions here and I'll tell you if they're interesting. Hah.
  Rioter Comments
: Totally agreed with everything you were posting and was with you up until the last line. I really dislike how rioters always passive aggressively threaten not posting anymore every time they have a heated discussion with someone and get frustrated. I'm so with you on everything else though. I just don't think rioters consistently telling the community 'some of you are jerks and therefore I don't want to post' is doing anything but making everyone feel bad. Every time I see it makes me hate this community more and want to be part of it less and less. And while it's easy to say hey don't do it treat me with respect. Everyone loses their head sometimes and posts overly aggressive posts on issues that they've felt have been persistent and ignored and bottling up inside them. This is an inevitable fact of human psychology. For every angry guy there's also 1000 guys who love it when you post. tldr; Stand up for yourself when someone does post an overly emotional angry response, but don't expect it not to happen or threaten red silence.
I think you extracted a far-reaching conclusion, actually! I'm not saying "we're going to go silent because y'all were mean" it's not a threat. It's just that for some it's easy to keep trucking and beating the shit out of bullies on the internet. For others, it's wearisome and borderline inevitable that you dread going out there. I don't want a hostile work environment and it's not a threat, it's a fact that it can become it. Look at the front page of the boards right now. I'm saying that's a lion's den and I don't want our conversations to become that because even the thickest skinned individual will peace the fuck out. No threats and I don't think I've ever seen a Rioter try to win a conversation "or else they'll go silent."
: >So I think where the misinterpretation stems from - and I can correct in the future - is between having an opinion or enforcing an opinion. yea, guess Schleiermacher had been sort of right claiming that the regular situation of all conversation is missunderstanding...which is why we need dialogues/discussions in the first place \*smiles* >For the second point, I see your point but I'll challenge you on the concept of mindfulness. [...] Designers spend years thinking about this, and it is definitely a learned trait that is honed over years. well yea, i think right now for me personally it´s sort of hard to grasp what your design intends are for League as a moba. What I did love so far for mobas, especially league is that those games are strategically insanly deep (makro-game), while still offering a lot of action (mikro-game) - though with the latest changes it feels like you really got rid of most strategic aspects just for more or less random snowballing (to some degree that has always been an issue in SoloQ, but really not in it´s current form). So not really knowing what you yourself want to achieve sort of makes it a little hard to give you the feedback you´d need - leaving a lot of vague formulated anecdotes about what feels fun and what doesn´t. So well, while i believe it might be really hard to fish for good advice in an infinite ocean of player-opinions...maybe a little more clarity from your side could go a long way here? t´s fine and nice to let the community ask questions about anything, but ultimatly i think it´s not all that enlightening - so why don´t you try it the other way and ask the community about more specific feedback on things you struggle with (or are proud of)? - I don´t think it hurts to not only have the developer perspective but also see the game a little more with the actual players eyes (and even if you ultimatly reject most of the input, every reflection can lead to unexpected breakthroughs).
Absolutely on your points! This is why I'm so focused on context-setting and 'value' setting first and foremost. If players can understand what we're going for and what we think good looks like and what values inform that... then they can come to a reasonable discussion. I want us to be very transparent about that. Sometimes the most frustrating thing is when someone's asking questions or inquiring because they want information, but you don't know what *they* want. That shit drives me insane because I feel like I'm being manipulated to give answers, or I'm not actually engaging in a dialogue - they just want to mine me for shit. It's great at disarming people though - "tell me what you want" - but it often feels like it translates to weird action. Instead, if we lead with our values and objectives, a player can look at those and then agree or disagree, and we can go from there. They can understand how their feedback or questions or opinions have an impact on our decisions.
Nazzadan (NA)
: I 100% agree that being a jerk should not be the standard of the internet. I do disagree with the mentality that League is a giant social experiment for people to try and change the behavior of people on the internet (albeit for the better). There needs to be mutual respect for a conversation, this is true. So respond to the people that show the respect you ask for, don't blow up the red feed with posts about how people are mean on the internet. I want to see red posts in this thread about the preseason, not Lyte-esque tone policing. "what I wont allow" "it doesnt teach anyone manners" It's stuff like this that upsets people. I'm sure I am coming off as a real jerk right now, and I want you to know this is not personal, just my feedback posed as a statement that is an opinion.
I don't really get offended even if people are being jerks or not, by the way. I get what you're saying and in this conversation I don't really need to recalibrate what's respectful. It takes a lot to offend me or even bother me on the internet. Anyway, this isn't a giant social experiment to teach people to be better people for the sake of it. I'm doing this because I believe I have the right as an individual to say "I would like to be treated with respect" and I also reserve the right to call anyone out if they try to violate it for their own intentions. In return, I will do the same. Yes we can only respond to the respectful questions and answers, but if someone's going to yell in the background "hey fuck you why the fuck can't you nerf Yasuo you stupid fucks," I will firmly beat the shit out of it. No questions. That kid can go to his friends and say the same thing and I won't bat an eye. He can go to reddit and do the same and I won't care. It's just that I know my time is worth something - as is yours - and if someone doesn't respect that I want to ensure it doesn't happen again to me. I'm not on a crusade to fix the internet. I won't seek it out. That said, if someone posts in a conversation thread like this, I assume they are aiming it at us (or me) and want us (or myself) to read it. If it's written in a rude way intended to be mean 'for the sake being mean' or to prove a point, I want to actively shape my environment. I'm tone policying for mutual respect because it's necessary to make conversations like these scalable so they don't burn people out. In all honesty, I'm setting these parameters because it's so fucking easy to burn out on the internet, and I don't want us to go silent again.
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PWYFF

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