saltran (EUW)
: Curious how Riot Korea banned Khan for several LCK games after the "4 chinesse cant win" at the start of this season and it seems that they wont make anything to Uzi
> [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rmWvBnAq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-08T06:26:55.454+0000) > > Curious how Riot Korea banned Khan for several LCK games after the "4 chinesse cant win" at the start of this season and it seems that they wont make anything to Uzi I mean to the general public, any controversy to do with race or nationality is gonna be looked at a lot more seriously than intentional feeding. No news source is gonna make a story out of unethical gameplay.
Rathimas (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=0000000a0000,timestamp=2017-10-11T08:30:33.888+0000) > > Gotta love that week 2 NA flop. And it’s fitting that IMT started it off
...and TSM follows
: 10 thoughts: Believe in NA
Believe in NA they said :/
: Ikr, every week 1 where NA does good it worries me for week 2; however, I think that this year is different because NA teams are playing at a much higher level than last year. Plus the NA teams are utilizing the meta much more than the other two years mentioned. We don't have Hai running around on amumu jungle, as much as I would love to see that work against SKT, instead we have teams like IMT who ripped off a Jayce counter pick into Cho Gath from a team in their group who used the same team comp idea against SKT in the LCK finals. Yes you could say that there is still room for error, but I believe this year will be different (or at least I hope so).
Oh no. IMT why... still got tiebreakers
: My Power Rankings: (tldr: NA and Korea R oaf stronk, but r dey stronk 4 log? #Biased) S Tier: 50% 1. Longzhu (3-0) 2. SKT (3-0) A Tier: 20% 1. RNG (3-0) 2. IMT (2-1) 3. C9 (2-1) B Tier: 15% SSG (2-1) C Tier: 10% 1. TSM (2-1) 2. Misfits (2-1) 3. WE (2-1) D Tier: 4% 1. G2 (1-2) 2. GAM (1-2) 3. AHQ (1-2) F Tier: 1% 1. EDG (0-3) 2. FW (0-3) 3. FNC (0-3) 4. 1907 (0-3) Teams are placed in each tier based on their overall win rate and performance, with stronger teams being numbered higher in each tier. The likely-hood of each tier containing winning team is rated by a guessedimated percentage. Sadly, my pick-ems are complete trash this year. Week 2 will really decide if I'm correct about my power ranks or not, but I'd say that the teams that are in the F and D Tier are almost guaranteed not to get out of groups just because there are only 3 games possible for each of those teams to win (not including tie breakers). And if I'm being completely honest, the only teams I had difficulty deciding where they placed were: TSM, RNG, and SSG just because of how they've been playing. At times RNG looks to be stronger than both C9 and IMT, but is that because SSG is doing particularly bad this year? In regards to SSG, is a Korean team really B Tier, or are they having a rough week 1? Finally looking at TSM, they look stronger than the other teams in their group but they did last year too and flopped hard in week 2, so are they really reliable enough to call B Tier or do they deserve C Tier? Hard choices, all I know is that out of all the regions NA, Korea, and China look the strongest here, and of those regions I think SKT, RNG, LZ, IMT, and C9 are most likely to win it. Probably SKT or LZ will win worlds, but it's fun to dream of non-Koreans winning.
Personally, I think you've put a bit too much focus o the record and not enough on the context of the games especially with the 3 games sample size per team. Week 2 of Worlds is a whole different animal from Week 1 if we look at the past few Worlds.
: I disagree with why they think NA is strong, and more importantly what they said about TSM. TSM has the easiest group and they still are struggling, while C9 and IMT have the two hardest groups and are thriving. EDG and AHQ are not weak teams yet C9 was able to make them look like wild card teams. Likewise Fnatic is amazing yet IMT made a quick comeback after punishing a mistake by one person (much like a Korean team would do). As goes Korea, they could have two 1-2 teams and in my opinion they will have that next year if the current trends continue to happen. Korea is no longer a guarantee anymore, and if C9 and/or IMT cleaned up their play we could very well see an NA win over the "most dominant" region. This could just be NA bias, but NA is no longer a region that can just be ignored or counted out of finals. There is a very real possibility that an NA team makes it to finals, or even wins, this year. Feel free to disagree or agree, I'm interested in hearing responses.
I like the optimism, but we have to wait for week 2. Remember that NA went 6-3 in the first week in both Worlds 2016 and 2015, so I'm keeping the hype tempered.
: Worlds Pick'em Discussion
A think a factor that people rarely talk about is the hometown advantage (which probably has a lot to do with timezones). EU's best recent performance was at World's 2015 held in Europe. And although NA didn't do too well last year, it was an improvement over 2015. And the 2014 world's held all over Asia, was the only year that no western team made it to semis. This is why I'm a bit wary of counting on the success of western team this year.
: "...Semifinalists who have been seeded based on Worlds 2016 results and regional record." All 3 Korean teams finish top 4 and they don't get anything. lol
It's not based on region, it based on the teams themselves. The other korean teams declined to participate.
Andy Guo (NA)
: umm they only made it to four and sneaky made it four straight now which is the most for current players
Dyrus and Yellowstar did indeed make it to Worlds 5 times. Dyrus with TSM 5 times and Yellowstar with AAA, SK, FNC 3 times. I dunno what else to say other than look it up?
Samspudz (NA)
: That literally can not happen. It's impossible.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
CLG has already lost to two wildcard teams in the past. Even during their impressive MSI performance, they dropped a game to Supermassive. So it is very possible. However, I think it's more unlikely this year because they are not scheduled to face the wildcard team last. Last year, when they lost to Pain, it was a game between two team that could not qualify, so there was nothing on the line. That won't be the case this year.
: I agree with most of how the system is set up now, but just like there is room for LMS and IWC to improve in the future, there needs to be room for EU and NA to improve in that same future. The fact that NA got 2nd at MSI should have put C9 in pool 2 and IMAY in pool 3. The setup from worlds 2015 ballparked the historical rankings, but going forward it needs to be flexible. I'm all for EU and NA having the option of losing their Pool 1 seed, but they should also be able to upgrade their 3rd seed.
This is a tough issue for riot to resolve since there are so few international league tournament to base rankings on. Since MSI is only a battle of first seeds, it seems arbitrary to base third seed rankings on MSI. (Just because a region's first seed is good, doesn't mean their 3rd seed is good). For ex. Imagine if SKT continued their losing streak at MSI, then SSG would be Pool 3 right now. That could result in a really imbalanced group. I guess they could choose Pool 3 region based on the performance of the worst team in the region at last year's Worlds?
: LMS won EU's Pool 1 seed so I doubt they're pissed ;)
They get 0 ip boost though.
: "though we'll scratch that off to perhaps not understanding the Aurelion Sol matchup." you could also account that to CLG being stronger than anyone expected rather than insultingly dismissing them... they've showed up this tournament. They're the only team other than RNG to take a game off of the Flash Wolves, they've beaten everyone other than China now except one surprise upset by SUP... I think it's safe to say they're better than anyone expected. Don't get me wrong, I thought NA was weak too... but I think it's time to give them the credit they've earned...
To be fair, this was written before the CLG vs. SKT game. I don't think CLG had proven much up to that point since they lost to SUP. However, after that game, I think the faith is back.
Lugg (NA)
: Faker the best player in the world? That's pretty hilarious considering he is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on his own team! Bang and Benji are both playing better than him. You can even argue that Wolf is more valuable to SKT than Faker is. If you look at the stats from the Spring Split in Korea, Faker is only the 4th best mid in the region. Yes, Faker is probably the greatest player ever, but he definitely isn't the best player now. EDIT: Just to add on, I guess no one remembers Froggen beating Faker 1v1 at All Stars.
Are you the prophet Crumbzz?
: Am i the only person really glad that Faker got butchered and went 0/6? <3 {{champion:268}}
I'm just happy Korea is showing some signs of weakness. I'm hoping the world finals will be interesting this time, unlike the last three times.
: > [{quoted}](name=Panman18,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=7MjZYMHg,comment-id=001100000001,timestamp=2016-03-03T12:55:11.762+0000) > > How do LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up? Sure they heavily underperformed at Worlds last year most likely due to the Juggernaut patch, but other than that they made it to the finals the two years before that losing to heavily favoured LCK teams. That seems to be the story for every major international LOL tournament except for MSI, so I would say that the LPL has a history of meeting expectations. By history, I meant their most recent international tournaments i.e. Worlds and the IEM following that; not the region's history since its inception. They were labelled as possible winners at Worlds yet their performance collectively was horrendous to put it mildly. Other than that, LPL has been a step above NA/EU and 3 steps behind LCK since S3 (I did not watch before S3). Last year, FNC and OG surpassed the top dogs of LPL and well this year, I think G2, H2K, Vitality, IMT are looking to live up to last year's OG and FNC at Worlds.
The only reason I compared you to those people is because your opinions of teams and regions is based completely around the results of recent past tournaments, not the current meta of the game. That's why today, your assumption that ESC would do fine and EU would show up was wrong. What happened to the LPL teams in the S3/S4 finals you ask? Well, they made it to the finals, which is better than the EU teams that you are hyping up at worlds 2015. How decorated are LPL teams at IEMs you ask, that question just proves you believe that past IEMs have anything to do with the results of the current IEM. You want me enlighten you on international competitions where LPL stomped? What does that have to do with my original argument that the LPL is consistent, meaning they are unlikely to upset top dogs in Korea, and your argument that they throw every tournament? "Meta shifts are part of the game; teams which adapt are better", if the juggernaut patch resulted in a mid/jungle meta, I would like to see amazing/peke and reignover/febby beat kakao/rookie and clearlove/pawn. I'm sure they could adapt to that Period. The jugger patch right before worlds meant the teams at world played in a not fully fleshed out meta, making adaptations within series very difficult and games very short. Remember it was not only SKT winning in 24 minutes in group stages, even C9 was doing that the first week. That's also why we didn't see a single 5 game series in the entirety of worlds 2015. So yes, the circumstances of patches do matter, not teams who adapt are better.
: > [{quoted}](name=Panman18,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=7MjZYMHg,comment-id=001100000001,timestamp=2016-03-03T12:55:11.762+0000) > > How do LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up? Sure they heavily underperformed at Worlds last year most likely due to the Juggernaut patch, but other than that they made it to the finals the two years before that losing to heavily favoured LCK teams. That seems to be the story for every major international LOL tournament except for MSI, so I would say that the LPL has a history of meeting expectations. By history, I meant their most recent international tournaments i.e. Worlds and the IEM following that; not the region's history since its inception. They were labelled as possible winners at Worlds yet their performance collectively was horrendous to put it mildly. Other than that, LPL has been a step above NA/EU and 3 steps behind LCK since S3 (I did not watch before S3). Last year, FNC and OG surpassed the top dogs of LPL and well this year, I think G2, H2K, Vitality, IMT are looking to live up to last year's OG and FNC at Worlds.
I see you conveniently left out the most recent IEM (cologne) where the LPL team made it to the finals, and both EU teams did not. I guess your definition of the history of the LPL is September 2015-November 2015. Also, since S3 there was something called MSI, where EDG beat SKT in a BO5, so I wouldn't say always 3 steps behind. My problem with your original comment was that your opinion on an entire region is based around a couple of tournaments. Just like the same idiots who believed EU was the worst region after worlds 2014, when all EU teams failed to qualify and ALL lost to Kabum. The truth is single tournament performances are largely decided by the meta. That's why at worlds 2015, when the juggernaut patch changed the game into a carry top lane meta, teams like Fnatic (huni), Origen(soaz), SKT (Marin), and KOO (smeb) excelled, and teams like TSM (Dyrus), and the LPL teams who had heavy Adc, mid, Jung carries floudered
Aldern (NA)
: _TL;DR_ **A-Tier:** QG, SKT **B-Tier:** RNG **C-Tier:** CLG, FNC **D-Tier:** OG, TSM I'm withholding placing ESC Ever. I honestly haven't researched this team since KeSPA Cup and placing a team I know next to nothing about just doesn't sit right with me. **A-Tier** QG and SKT T1 are clear favorites to win in my opinion. QG has had incredible domestic success this split and the 3/5ths of SKT's lineup are coming off a world championship win (assuming SKT are choosing to bring only their substitute jungler Blank for the tournament). I will give the edge to QG here as the DoinB/Swift synergy on the big stage is tested and proven, while the Faker/Blank supposed synergy just hasn't been showcased this year. The teamwork QG have been demonstrating may just be enough to overcome the mechanical prowess of the reigning world champions, and the Uzi/Mor vs. Bang/Wolf match-up will demand attention, as it may be the most exciting match-up of the entire tournament. To SKT's credit, I have heard Blank is performing well in scrimmages, so I completely agree with SKT fielding their rookie and giving him some stage time in a tournament outside of League Champions Korea. **B-Tier** Not a whole lot to say here, RNG is an extremely strong team at the moment and can definitely take games off the A-Tier teams. RNG does suffer from a supposed inability to effectively rotate/shot call when at a gold disadvantage >5k, so it will be interesting to see how they perform against SKT's infamous strangulation of resources when given even a slight lead in pressure or gold. RNG also seems the mostly likely Eastern team to drop games to Western teams. I think CLG and OG (to some extent) could be considered favorites in the series, but it is unlikely CLG will make it out of Group B. **C-Tier** CLG and FNC. It's doubtful we'll see much of CLG this tournament as they open for Group B by playing SKT. FNC, in my opinion, can upset. I will say it is unlikely, however, given how poorly Gamsu and Klaj have been performing these past few weeks. **D-Tier** The "literally-not-a-snowball's-chance-in-hell" tier. Not gonna waste my time on these two teams. (PJSalt) I'm no expert on these topics, so don't just take every point I've brought up as some tirelessly researched masterpiece. I just really felt the author's original tier list was just out of touch with reality, so here's what a sane person's might look like.
I respect your honesty for not placing ESC Ever. So many people rank them and argue their own opinions about them, when it is obvious that they have never seen their current roster play. The team is a wild card right now, so who knows how well they will do.
MihaiDD (EUNE)
: They explained why QG is so low in their standings. Because: 1)they can lose the game in picks and bans; 2)the only thing they do right is 5v5 teamfighting. How do you go past that? Easy: lane swap, take fast objectives and build a 1-3-1 composition with a lot of disengage. Make them retreat to their base (or lose inhibitors), take control of their jungler, take baron and go back to 1-3-1, but with baron minions this time.
Just because they had questionable pick/ban in the one series against RNG shouldn't outweigh their pretty decent pick/ban they had so far the entire split. And anyone who thinks beating the teams at IEM is as simple and "easy" as using the cookie-cutter, and general strategy that you suggested is clearly misguided. There are way to many variables to reasonably believe that things will go that well according to plan.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lugg,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=7MjZYMHg,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-03-02T17:03:21.229+0000) > > SKT a S tier team? That has to be the one of the most delusional thing I have ever read. SKT IS IN 5TH PLACE RIGHT NOW! Even with the pretty weak group of teams at IEM, SKT is probably just an A tier team at best. Whoever wrote the article has to be a huge Faker fanboy and is totally living in the past. Faker is still a great player, but he is definitely past his prime right now. SKT will probably be gone the moment they face either Chinese team or CLG. > > Both Chinese teams should be S tier. They are both #1 in their divisions in the LPL. CLG is playing amazing right now and deserve the A tier ranking. > > The rest of the field is pretty sad. ESC is basically a Challenger team and every other team is average for their regions. Faker is past his prime? I suggest you read up the stats on his current performance before saying that. Also, SKT can definitely lose to the LPL teams but CLG? We'll just wait and see I suppose. LPL teams are going to have to look a lot better than EDG and LGD did just prior to Worlds 2015 in order to get a better ranking. LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up. A tier is pretty much where they sit at unless they come and blow others out of the water. I am not sure if you are keeping up w/ ESC Ever in KR Challenger but they are doing just fine. This team won IEM just a while back and did great at the Kespa Cup as well. They are not underperforming after one roster change yet so no reason to believe they are not a good team still.
How do LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up? Sure they heavily underperformed at Worlds last year most likely due to the Juggernaut patch, but other than that they made it to the finals the two years before that losing to heavily favoured LCK teams. That seems to be the story for every major international LOL tournament except for MSI, so I would say that the LPL has a history of meeting expectations.
: So did everyone forget that TSM completely destroyed CLG a couple weeks ago? , yet somehow CLG are a tier above TSM. If any team runs into a TSM team that is playing well like they did 2 weeks ago when they went 2-0 they could very well be an A tier as well. These rankings are complete bias and as a reporter/writer you should be ashamed to hold such bias whilst writing an article on power rankings. This is almost as bad as ESPN writers. Like really SKT1 is not playing well at all and theyre an S tier , while Qiao Gu Reapers lost 1 game and they arent S tier as well? why?!?!?!?!?!
Well CLG are coming off a week where they beat both Immortals and C9. Meanwhile, TSM are 1W-3L in their last 4 games and got stomped by Liquid in their most recent game, so you can't deny that CLG is surging and TSM is struggling right now. That being said, I agree that the article's rankings are very questionable and seems to be haphazardly put together.
: This NA vs EU rivalry is petty. You realize that the rest of the world views this squabble as two bums fighting over a nickel? Get over it and enjoy them both for what they are. There are good teams, fun teams to watch, and exciting competition in both. Lets make it like the old Star Wars vs Star Trek, Marvel vs DC arguments, and accept that both sides have their merits and flaws.
I totally agree. The only thing that makes me ashamed to be part of NA is definitely not the NA teams, it's the brainless fanboys who are always pointlessly fixed on the NA vs. EU drama.
: Ever only lost Athena who hasn't done much of anything since joining EDG. 4/5 of that line up will return for this event. I don't think that either QG or RYL are that good becasue of their play domestically. I like a lot of people tried to buy into the hype around the LPL last year before worlds and look how good that turned out. I also wouldn't sleep on SKT just because they are middle of the pack in KR, the LCK is more stacked than IEM so them struggling domestically doesn't mean that will translate to international competition. In 2014 people said the same thing about SKT before all-starts, only for them to show up and beat up on everyone like a drum.
Despite the LPL's disappointing world's performance last year, they still did better than NA, so it still doesn't make sense to rank a good NA team like CLG above the two best teams in the LPL. That being said, since this is the first major tournament in Spring, anything can happen. Hell, at last year's IEM Katowice, Team WE, the last place LPL team at the time, beat the GE Tigers who were undefeated in the LCK at the time, much like the same ROX tigers team right now. Then, TSM won it all. So any prediction we have now can easily be turned on its head.
: Power Rankings 2/23/2016
Why does the title not include QG as an undefeated team? They have won all their series. If even losses in series count, then ROX tigers are also not undefeated. They went 2-1 vs KT a few weeks ago.

Panman18

Level 58 (NA)
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