Spolchen (EUW)
: Just pay certainlyT to not work on league, he has proven countless times that he is a horrible designer and hides his incompetence by highly overloading champs. The best way to fix most of leagues problems is to simply take all the champs that certainlyt made and cut everything expects their gimmick out, and if said gimmicks are op remove it.
> [{quoted}](name=Spolchen,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zf5GwOMh,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-12-12T06:28:52.513+0000) > > Just pay certainlyT to not work on league, he has proven countless times that he is a horrible designer and hides his incompetence by highly overloading champs. > The best way to fix most of leagues problems is to simply take all the champs that certainlyt made and cut everything expects their gimmick out, and if said gimmicks are op remove it. The salt is hecking real. Take your crying and shove it, that kind of blind hate is unwelcome in most places.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:44:48.030+0000) > > https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Jonathan_%27EndlessPillows%27_Fuller > The guy who designed yuumi also made Xayah, Rakan, and Pyke. He also helped with mordekaiser. > > As far as i understand, Xayah, Rakan, and Pyke are at the least _popular champions who are very strong_. It's you again lmao No they are not
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T04:08:42.369+0000) > > It's you again lmao > No they are not Pyke, Xayah, and Rakan arent popular? Mordekaiser isnt popular? Are... are we playing the same game?
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:35:41.324+0000) > > Youd be wrong. > Lulu can CHOOSE to ult the person who needs it most without any delay. > Lulu can hard CC the enemy at her discretion. > Lulu can soft CC in an AoE. > > Yuumi functions not on the AoE, but on the single target. The delays on her W incentivize staying on your carry, her Q is a single target ability only used for procing spell effects, and her R is entirely dependant on her carry engaging because shes directionally locked for the duration of it. > Between her W and her E, she is objectively the most powerful buff in the game. If you say shes not, you dont know what Yuumi does in the first place and shouldnt comment on how she does it. > > Edit; ALso, "more enjoyable to play" is an opinion and not fact. I, for example, really like Yuumi and her playstyle. You dont. Its okay that you dont, but you dont play her; stop demanding she be changed to suit your tastes. Yuumi can choose who to Heal with much mroe restriction because of the AS steriod Yuumi has to use R and it hit someone 3 times just to root and not hard CC Yuumi has a weaker slow on a single target As far as her "specialist capabilities go". Everything she does that makes her a specialist Lulu can perform but better outside the healing. P.S.: Theres nothing "objective about it" Her playrate spiked earlier today when the changes came through and then started to decline worse then they were before the changes. So she has higher WR with lower play rate = less fun to play. I mean the best i can tell ya is to hit up the yuumi mains subreddit. The most positive thing you see about the changes is they make her stronger but you do not see a single person say she is more fun or as fun but the opposite. Her Q is basically used to complete support item only now, thats terrible design.
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:55:16.870+0000) > > Yuumi can choose who to Heal with much mroe restriction because of the AS steriod The fact her W has travel AND cast time means that its about a second before she can actually heal, and she can only heal one person at a time. Lulu simply has confirm her E on someone and she casts instantly - theres no delay in her decision making. Unluke Yuumi who has a delay in her decision making, and can fail because of it if her target is bursted. > Yuumi has to use R and it hit someone 3 times just to root and not hard CC A root is Semi hard CC, but point granted. I dont understand what that has to do with the price of tea in china though. > Yuumi has a weaker slow on a single target I... Yes? Are you just stating facts or are you trying to refute my argument that Yuumi is an enchanter specialized in single target? > As far as her "specialist capabilities go". Everything she does that makes her a specialist Lulu can perform but better outside the healing. Youd be wrong. Between Yuumis E and W shes a much stronger buff that lulu could even think of giving, plus, lulu has a LOT MORE general usage. Id even go far as to argue lulu is not specialized at all - shes the general purpose enchanter. > P.S.: Theres nothing "objective about it" Her playrate spiked earlier today when the changes came through and then started to decline worse then they were before the changes. So she has higher WR with lower play rate = less fun to play. You dont seem to understand what the word objective means here. Numerically, Yuumi provides MUCH stronger buffs than any other enchanter right now and unlike most other enchanters her buffs are single target and her impact is typically FOR a single target. Every other enchanter has a team wide impact or their buffs are low CD and meant to be spammed as needed wherever theyre needed. Because Yuumi's buffs are MUCH stronger, she is, objectively, the strongest buff in the game.
: I've honestly had a decent amount of success with just unbinding my q button until level 12. At this point it barely slows at all, does insignificant amounts of damage, and causes you to have even more mana issues if you use it. The only uses I really missed were proccing my support item in lane and checking bushes and the former isn't as important as it might otherwise be because your support item's gold income is going to turn off once it's collected enough gold anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=MooooooooreDakka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:55:17.782+0000) > > I've honestly had a decent amount of success with just unbinding my q button until level 12. At this point it barely slows at all, does insignificant amounts of damage, and causes you to have even more mana issues if you use it. The only uses I really missed were proccing my support item in lane and checking bushes and the former isn't as important as it might otherwise be because your support item's gold income is going to turn off once it's collected enough gold anyway. You still need it to proc manaflow band. But the ability is definitely a one point wonder. Max your E, max your W, max your ult, THEN max your Q.
: Honestly the real culprit is the one who designed Yuumi's kit. How can you be a game developer with this shallow of ideas?
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T02:15:48.257+0000) > > Honestly the real culprit is the one who designed Yuumi's kit. > How can you be a game developer with this shallow of ideas? https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Jonathan_%27EndlessPillows%27_Fuller The guy who designed yuumi also made Xayah, Rakan, and Pyke. He also helped with mordekaiser. As far as i understand, Xayah, Rakan, and Pyke are at the least _popular champions who are very strong_.
Kuponya (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-12T02:17:45.265+0000) > > ? How? Notice the attack speed buff? Using that on anyone else is basically trolling.
> [{quoted}](name=Kuponya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbFogMNW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-12T02:20:40.650+0000) > > Notice the attack speed buff? Using that on anyone else is basically trolling. Any carry loves the attack speed as a tertiary stat, not just marksmen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:27:17.044+0000) > > Other enchanters provide team wide benefits and have split-second decision making as to who they support. Yuumi has always been a specialist enchanter who enables carries to carry harder. > The point of playing Yuumi - then AND now - is because you are one of the strongest buffs in the game. Thats not true, there are other specialist supports like lulu who does her job but better as well as being much more enjoyable to play.
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:31:42.826+0000) > > Thats not true, there are other specialist supports like lulu who does her job but better as well as being much more enjoyable to play. Youd be wrong. Lulu can CHOOSE to ult the person who needs it most without any delay. Lulu can hard CC the enemy at her discretion. Lulu can soft CC in an AoE. Yuumi functions not on the AoE, but on the single target. The delays on her W incentivize staying on your carry, her Q is a single target ability only used for procing spell effects, and her R is entirely dependant on her carry engaging because shes directionally locked for the duration of it. Between her W and her E, she is objectively the most powerful buff in the game. If you say shes not, you dont know what Yuumi does in the first place and shouldnt comment on how she does it. Edit; ALso, "more enjoyable to play" is an opinion and not fact. I, for example, really like Yuumi and her playstyle. You dont. Its okay that you dont, but you dont play her; stop demanding she be changed to suit your tastes.
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T01:46:44.358+0000) > > Her early game was always atrocious. > > The point of these changes were to put her strength into being an enchanter, not into an invulnerable poke mage. > > Her new E does more than double the healing of both her old E charges put together, on a shorter cooldown than a single charge, with an attack speed steroid as a cherry on top. Yuumi's utility and healing are way stronger, but she'll run out of mana if she doesn't come out to trigger her passive. > > Take Aery (Manaflow Band, Transcendence, Scorch) + (Shield Bash + Revitalize) + (CDR+AP+MR). Get Q level 1, but max it last. Max E first. Trigger your passive as often as you can without getting CC'd. Rush Athene's, then build every item that gives heal/shield power you can get your paws on. Every other enchanter is more fun and performs better than her. What is the point in playing Yuumi?
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48dIpR1m,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:20:16.888+0000) > > Every other enchanter is more fun and performs better than her. What is the point in playing Yuumi? Other enchanters provide team wide benefits and have split-second decision making as to who they support. Yuumi has always been a specialist enchanter who enables carries to carry harder. The point of playing Yuumi - then AND now - is because you are one of the strongest buffs in the game.
: Either build full ap and one shot or build full tank and tank, not build full ap and also be a tank
Do you understand what a bruiser is, and that if a "tank" builds full AP, theyre building full AP and youre just complaining the "tank" is doing damage?
: > [{quoted}](name=YuumiSoThicc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMAuoc7M,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-11T19:12:23.348+0000) > > then tell me, why do other champs skills not go on cd? and thats a CORE part of her kit. It should be if its being cast and the blast cone claps her, then it should go on cd. NOT when its done willy nilly. its a stupid change I don't know, why is Blitz the only champion whose MS buff slows him afterwards? why is Nami the only champion who can speed up allies with literally every single ability in her kit? why does someone being hit by the blast plant while dashing still causes you to lose the CD of said dash instead of refunding it? why does Black Shield eve prevent you from using the plants in the first place? why does Sej and anyone with a black shield can get the honey fruits without being slowed? You are literally making something be way bigger than it actually is.
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMAuoc7M,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-12-11T19:18:46.147+0000) > > I don't know, why is Blitz the only champion whose MS buff slows him afterwards? Because riot doesnt understand why self-CC outside suppression is a bad thing. Blitzy originally self slowed - it was removed due to player complaint back when riot cared. It was re-added because a rioter thought blitzy shouldnt be able to run away with enough CDR. >why is Nami the only champion who can speed up allies with literally every single ability in her kit? Because its her passive? >why does someone being hit by the blast plant while dashing still causes you to lose the CD of said dash instead of refunding it? Because youve used the ability and the CC applies after youve used it. >why does Black Shield eve prevent you from using the plants in the first place? why does Sej and anyone with a black shield can get the honey fruits without being slowed? It blocks CC in general. Makes for a good outplay tool, though. > You are literally making something be way bigger than it actually is. Problem with this statement: Yuumi has been made more clunky and less fluid to play because people like you demand she be cookie cutter cat soraka despite her kit not being capable of it and her power budget being focused less on team utility and much more so on individual empowerment. This change is small in the short term, but it means that Yuumi cannot - CANNOT - use blast cones in tense situations because they give her a massive and disproportionate disadvantage. It weakens her already small ability to escape and inhibits meaningful decision making by punishing yuumi for using them. Changing her lockout to _enemy_ CC is the best way to give the cat back some agency and decision making without removing the lockout to begin with. Also, if you didnt know, a blast cone triggered by an enemy is considered sourced from that enemy (which is why it triggers aftershock).
: then tell me, why do other champs skills not go on cd? and thats a CORE part of her kit. It should be if its being cast and the blast cone claps her, then it should go on cd. NOT when its done willy nilly. its a stupid change
> [{quoted}](name=YuumiSoThicc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMAuoc7M,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-11T19:12:23.348+0000) > > then tell me, why do other champs skills not go on cd? and thats a CORE part of her kit. It should be if its being cast and the blast cone claps her, then it should go on cd. NOT when its done willy nilly. its a stupid change Does Asols W go on CD when hes blast coned? Regardless... Yuumis CC lockout needs to be limited to _enemy_ hard CC. BLastcone should only put her W on cooldown when an enemy triggers it, allowing it be an outplay tool.
0cool1 (NA)
: Is the Whole Username Issue not a concern?
Username is not the same thing as display name. You dont seem to understand what this change is and what its meant to do, so please allow me to explain; Riot games is transitioning from a localized client to a global client, and are forcing all accounts to have a UNIQUE username for the global system. This unique username will be for your _GLOBAL_ account, allowing you to easily swap between regions and games. It IS bull, by the way. Unique names are a thing that should have been abandoned ten years ago in favor of numerical handles. Theres a reason why discord and blizzard use #number string as their unique identifier. I, for example, have had my account since 2010. I was forced to change my username - which ive had for almost ten years - because some fragboy from ~~brazil~~ LAR got the email before me and claimed _MY_ username.
: New Champions Riot Can You Chill ....
This thread shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how companies as big as riot function. There isnt one large team that does every major task, IE one "development team", one "art team", and one "administrative team". Riot, like all big companies, works in loosely connected and largely unaccountable small groups which are specialized in specific tasks. The number of champions being released isnt because "RIOT FOCUSED ON NEW CASH COWS"; its simply because those champions reached the end of their production cycle and were slated for release. Riot is still working towards bug fixes, reworks, relaunches, etc. Theyre just not ready yet and riot (like all big companies) is very opaque when it comes to their inner workings.
: This is unfair to junglers and midlaners though
> [{quoted}](name=RedOpticToxin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Kf6akOK,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-11T07:43:57.567+0000) > > This is unfair to junglers and midlaners though Mid laners already have an inherent advantage and riot has proven time and again they dont care about junglers who arent Vi, Elise, Jarvan, or Lee Sin.
: I know how to fix top issues and make the game more interactive, PORTALS in alcoves!!!
I mean, we could take a lesson from dawngate and have the side alcoves contain twisted treelines capture point, and the capture point just gives gold per 5 for the person who takes it?
: Sorry but no. "Then keep it for this group of people" so you go from always getting what you want to not getting what you want? You do know how long queue times are already in high elo right? So removing it would just make it worse. Like I already said, it would also be too jarring to suddenly not being able to get what you want the instant you reach a certain rank. Whether people want autofill or not is 100% POINTLESS and IRRELEVANT. It is something that needs to happen since not every role is played equally, they are not even close. So all it will happen is that everyone who plays the more popular role will get increased queue times while everyone who plays the least played ones will get either increased or the same queue times as before. It will literally end up like old teambuilder where people's queue times could get up to an hour. We literally have already tried this already and the results are not going to suddenly change.
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jbbe8mch,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-11T05:18:33.804+0000) > > Sorry but no. "Then keep it for this group of people" so you go from always getting what you want to not getting what you want? You do know how long queue times are already in high elo right? So removing it would just make it worse. Like I already said, it would also be too jarring to suddenly not being able to get what you want the instant you reach a certain rank. > > Whether people want autofill or not is 100% POINTLESS and IRRELEVANT. It is something that needs to happen since not every role is played equally, they are not even close. So all it will happen is that everyone who plays the more popular role will get increased queue times while everyone who plays the least played ones will get either increased or the same queue times as before. It will literally end up like old teambuilder where people's queue times could get up to an hour. We literally have already tried this already and the results are not going to suddenly change. This is a good point but not for the reasons you state. Autofill is needed in high ELO because the playerbase is spread thin in the diamond+ ELO. Prior to grandmaster riot could have solved this issue by capping MMR at diamond 1 and making masters the true "ranked" with a ranking list based on your ELO, with challenger as the top one hundred players in the region. Autofill in its current state for the current reasons is a band aid for a much bigger problem; lack of playerbase in the upper ELOs. Of course, theres also a case to be made for hard split matchmaking between gold- and platinum+ as gold and below have the playerbase to sustain no autofill while retaining queue times. Game quality > game speed, after all. Game quality is an entirely different beast though, equally as solvable as high ELO queue times.
AhernfVy (NA)
: Too many champions have the counterplay of "just don't be that champion vs them" now
If you think Udyr cant duel a morde, youve never met an Udyr top with conq. tiger stance, sheen, and a specters cowl.
Sspencer (NA)
: Riot should release a survey asking players wether they would prefer autofill or higher queue times
Have you never seen riots surveys? Theyre always loaded questions. The question for this topic would be "Does autofill reduce queue times?" The answer is an unequivocal "yes", therefore everyone likes autofill.
Keiaga (NA)
: I'm pretty certain that anyone who is in iron is actually a troll that is losing on purpose. The concept of someone actually being bad enough to sink into iron without actively attempting to lose...frightens me.
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJeaNefo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-11T05:05:39.395+0000) > > I'm pretty certain that anyone who is in iron is actually a troll that is losing on purpose. The concept of someone actually being bad enough to sink into iron without actively attempting to lose...frightens me. Iron is full of actual players who are either casual or just, genuinely, not good. Its no worse than bronze.
: Iron player logic
Sounds like a rant. Wrong board, bub.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EyrPjH6P,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-11T01:04:58.653+0000) > > I think adding HP is a bad move, because it generalizes the item. > Also making an item with; > 400HP > 80 armor > 20% CDR > 400 mana > 25% attack speed reduction to nearby enemies > Is way to many strong stats. > > Id suggest, instead of giving it HP, just give it an HP scaling shield that scales with armor and HP. > Like... "Frozen flesh: Grants a shield that regenerates at full health based on your health regeneration. Shield strength is 10% total HP+0.25armor." > > We need more shields for tanks, honestly. Making the item unabusable by bruisers might take a little thought, though. I like that. I'd be happy with more shields on tanks in the damage meta. Not outright tank stats, just some more options to make tanks need a two shot rather than a one shot.
> [{quoted}](name=Mavëríck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EyrPjH6P,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T01:12:40.360+0000) > > I like that. I'd be happy with more shields on tanks in the damage meta. Not outright tank stats, just some more options to make tanks need a two shot rather than a one shot. Its always saddened me that one of the best non-broken defense passives in the game was removed, flat, without be put on a different item. >UNIQUE – QUEST: Earn Gold 750 using this item. REWARD: Shield Battery, a permanent shield for 255 − 340 (based on level) health. The shield regenerates slowly when out-of-combat. RIP shield battery.
MrFunjoy (NA)
: i9 120FPS drops to ZERO
So... you also didnt give us ANY relevent information. What is your rig made up of?
: {{item:3110}} +100 armor +20% cooldown reduction +400 mana UNIQUE: Cripple icon Cripples nearby enemies' attack speed by 15% (700 range). ______________________________________________________ Increase passive to 25% Decrease Armor to 80 Add 350-450 HP This item has the niche of countering right click champions like {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} (without ult) {{champion:24}} and most adcs. If people want it to be an option for all tanks then it needs hp added to it.
> [{quoted}](name=Mavëríck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EyrPjH6P,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-11T00:52:38.352+0000) > > {{item:3110}} > +100 armor > +20% cooldown reduction > +400 mana > > UNIQUE: Cripple icon Cripples nearby enemies' attack speed by 15% (700 range). > > ______________________________________________________ > > Increase passive to 25% > Decrease Armor to 80 > Add 350-450 HP > > > This item has the niche of countering right click champions like {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} (without ult) {{champion:24}} and most adcs. If people want it to be an option for all tanks then it needs hp added to it. I think adding HP is a bad move, because it generalizes the item. Also making an item with; 400HP 80 armor 20% CDR 400 mana 25% attack speed reduction to nearby enemies Is way to many strong stats. Id suggest, instead of giving it HP, just give it an HP scaling shield that scales with armor and HP. Like... "Frozen flesh: Grants a shield that regenerates at full health based on your health regeneration. Shield strength is 10% total HP+0.25armor." We need more shields for tanks, honestly. Making the item unabusable by bruisers might take a little thought, though.
: Malz is actually pretty strong. He's like the anti-champion champion. Dude is a walking zoning and "outplay" button tool.
> [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yr45Uu7t,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-08T11:22:06.174+0000) > > Malz is actually pretty strong. He's like the anti-champion champion. Dude is a walking zoning and "outplay" button tool. Maybe against certain comps. But any assassin or fed marksman who outranges him - like caitlyn, tristana, ezreal, or senna - will destroy him pretty quickly.
: Malzahar is really strong right now as a soloq midlaner, he has a 52% winrate in plat+ He's definitely not a jungler It's okay to suggest a new void champion but Malzahar doesn't need a rework
> [{quoted}](name=BigBrainSuppMain,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yr45Uu7t,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-08T10:13:29.794+0000) > > Malzahar is really strong right now as a soloq midlaner, he has a 52% winrate in plat+ > > He's definitely not a jungler > > It's okay to suggest a new void champion but Malzahar doesn't need a rework You werent around when the rework first happened, were you? At the time, he was reworked into a jungler while the jungle itself was objective heavy due to the new dragons. His clear was fast, it was safe, and he was a mage so that wasnt okay and people whined till he was nerfed. Then he became a support because the rework killed his mid lane. Then he was balanced as a support. Then he was kicked OUT of support and given back a little damage so he would stay in the mid lane.
: Passive: Prophet of the void. Rip off morg W Q: Howls of the void Rip off irelia E W: Prophecy made reality/Prayers unto the void Dont even know wtf this is supposed to be you said nothing about spawning lesser voidlings but apparenly they gain atk speed and movespeed. Rip off elise spider form W E: Malefic vision Keeping his E because its his space aids. And whats this? Instead of bouncing it just does insane dmg at rank 1. 180 dmg to be precise R: Void beacon Rip off anivia R So tank malz becomes a thing relying on the absurd base dmg and max health dmg on the passive. The queen voidling becomes as beefy as an adc with 2100 hp late game and roughly 170 atk. Shits out lesser voidlings with hatch instantly as long as the malz player isnt a dumbass. And when these guys pop after a touch his broken passive continues to activate for more percent health dmg. Why build him ap when his ap ratios are ass. Just build him tank center yourself around utility from the movespeed increases and percent health dmg. He'd have to be between enemies to make his ult viable but as a mage he'd be too squishy to survive rooted for 3 seconds. it seems like you wanted to make a broken champion but only when hes on the defensive side of things and on the offensive side he cant really do much but be an annoyance as a mage at least.
> [{quoted}](name=Chainman3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yr45Uu7t,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-08T11:51:49.436+0000) > > Passive: Prophet of the void. > Rip off morg W Thats a reach. Do you think every "ground" ability is a rip off morg W? This concept is only similar in the sense that its _ground_, because the theme of it comes from consecrated ground. > Q: Howls of the void > Rip off irelia E Since when did irelias E create zones and silence? But yes, functionally similar and more caster flavored. > W: Prophecy made reality/Prayers unto the void > Dont even know wtf this is supposed to be you said nothing about spawning lesser voidlings but apparenly they gain atk speed and movespeed. > Rip off elise spider form W Did you even READ the rest of the post, specifically the section where i explained the voidling queen? Or the ultimate? Also its a two part ability, with one summoning the queen and the other buffing voidlings. > E: Malefic vision > Keeping his E because its his space aids. And whats this? Instead of bouncing it just does insane dmg at rank 1. 180 dmg to be precise Malefic visions deals damage over four seconds. Its not as strong as you think it is and has a high mana cost to boot; its meant to be his main ability however since basing him entirely off his voidling queen is a terrible idea and his Q represents unreliable damage. Numbers can easily be changed, however. > R: Void beacon > Rip off anivia R Since when was anivia R centered around himself and caused potentially multiple areas to expand? > So tank malz becomes a thing relying on the absurd base dmg and max health dmg on the passive. The queen voidling becomes as beefy as an adc with 2100 hp late game and roughly 170 atk. Shits out lesser voidlings with hatch instantly as long as the malz player isnt a dumbass. And when these guys pop after a touch his broken passive continues to activate for more percent health dmg. I mean, sure if you want to do that? Good luck getting levels because this concept is based heavily around level. The queen is strong but shes most of his threat outside his ultimate AND melee; all you have to do is focus the big purple minion that will mindlessly attack the nearest thing because this concept gets rid of the direction malefic visions provides. Also, the passive isnt broken. Its 13% per second at level 16, thats less than his current ultimate which is weaker than his original pool that also scaled with AP. > Why build him ap when his ap ratios are ass. Just build him tank center yourself around utility from the movespeed increases and percent health dmg. Malzahar doesnt benefit from his W. Just the voidlings. Was that not clear? If you decide to simply build him tank you might be... well... tanky but you lose out on the damage and pressure in favor of... something else? His ratios are also all below 0.8 because hes meant to spam them and rely on his voidlings, which in his current kit is a one point wonder. > He'd have to be between enemies to make his ult viable but as a mage he'd be too squishy to survive rooted for 3 seconds. zhonyas is a thing and also the ultimate provides a cost-benefit question to the enemy; can you kill him before youre stunned AND escape? Is his ult up? Is he to much of a theat? Will he kill you anyway? Is it worth the risk? Rather than "oh look enemy mage ill right click/press R and get an easy kill!". Malzahars whole niche, before the rework, was anti assassin if you didnt know; even now you still have vestiges of that even if he cant 100-0 squishies who jump him anymore. This concept rework brings him back to being a threat when you jump on him, and fairly harmless if you stay away from him. > it seems like you wanted to make a broken champion but only when hes on the defensive side of things and on the offensive side he cant really do much but be an annoyance as a mage at least. Just because its different doesnt mean its broken. This is a concept for a much more zone heavy spell caster intended to sit on the backline and raise questions about whether or not you WANT to risk jumping on him.
Rioter Comments
Revech (NA)
: (1) "This is not true, and it makes ardent censor an extremely good buy on Yuumi. The attack speed buff from zoom stacks with ardent censor, giving you something like a 60% attack speed buff with 0 AP. Thats pretty great." Final attack speed cannot go above the cap of 2.5 attacks per second. [Attack speed Wiki](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_speed) There is an attack speed cap and most adcs including many other meta champs are going to build attack speed as it's already built into many if not most of the a/d items causing it to overcap attack speed. Irregardless this still makes Yuumi more of a glorified keystone then she was before. (2) The changes to her E have reduced her ability to mitigate range advantages by spacing out zooms as well as cement her role as a buff. The changes to her E haven't just 'reduced' her 'range advantages' if they ever could be called that, they've made her 'zoomies' E relevant as a buff and irrelevant as a viable speed boost, for any type of engage or escape. I'm just going to cite the Wiki on Champ slows (majority of which are vastly stronger that yuumi's Q) and the wiki on champions with a 'dash' ability; of which the vast majority of meta champs have a dash. In summary the vast majority of champs have slows and dashes or speed boosts of some sort that make yuumi's now nerfed Q and nerfed E completely useless abilities, and that's my point. [League Wiki SLOW](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Slow) [League Wiki DASH](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Dash) (3) cement her role as a buff. Gotta point out here I agree these changes cement her role as a buff or "glorified keystone" but I do disagree on your point above regarding the added usefulness of the attack speed buff.
> [{quoted}](name=Revech,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bH6WvJw1,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T04:39:10.468+0000) > > Final attack speed cannot go above the cap of 2.5 attacks per second. What does this have to do with the price of tea in china? Do you think quoting basic game knowledge somehow means that the item - an early game item - is somehow a terrible buy on yuumi? A marksman will usually not buy 2.0ASP worth of attack speed - they hit 1.8 at most come level 18, and a brief but massive ASP boost in the form of an ardent zoom will be a fantastic burst of power. Regardless, ardent censor is a cheap item and can be sold later on for better items as needed. Just because an item might become less useful later on does not mean it is never useful. Such thinking is shallow and doesnt respect the game. > The changes to her E haven't just 'reduced' her 'range advantages' if they ever could be called that, they've made her 'zoomies' E relevant as a buff and irrelevant as a viable speed boost, for any type of engage or escape. I'm just going to cite the Wiki on Champ slows (majority of which are vastly stronger that yuumi's Q) and the wiki on champions with a 'dash' ability; of which the vast majority of meta champs have a dash. In summary the vast majority of champs have slows and dashes or speed boosts of some sort that make yuumi's now nerfed Q and nerfed E completely useless abilities, and that's my point. I dont think you even understand just quite what youre talking about here. Do you know why Melee+Yuumi is such a powerful combination? Its because Yuumi enabled those champions to catch up and stick on ranged champions, mitigating the inherent advantage of range. For ranged carries she was on, well timed zooms were able to allow her carry to quickly close gaps and secure kills that would otherwise be out of reach. The changes, by removing charges, have harmed this particular trait. Its not a bad thing, mind you. These changes will have a positive impact on Yuumi as a whole by reducing her general utility.
Revech (NA)
: Ardent censor accomplished the same thing as the new attack speed buff on Yuumi's "zoomies" E; which now makes ardent censor useless on Yuumi. The increased mana cost of her E now makes yuumi one of the most mana intensive champions in the game, this makes seraphs embrace a mandatory (most likely 1st) item. The nerf to E 'zoomies' of 10% removes any chance of using it to catch enemies or escape either while detached (ok ur dead then) or for speeding up your partner to escape, now 'zoomies' just makes you or your partner walk slightly faster. Since the nerfs to Q, it now is nothing more then a tool to gather gold during super early game (between detaching to proc autos). Considering a majority of the current meta champs have dashes yas, kass, ornn, cam, renekton, lucian, etc, etc or with even a minuscule amount of tenacity, her Q slow is almost laughable. Part of the fun of playing yuumi was for example attaching to a darius landing a q slow, following that up with a 'zoomies' to get darius in range for his pull. Now essentially catching anyone through a q slow or e speed up is just not going to be a functional mechanic for Yuumi due to the nerfs. The 5 second cd on her w means you cant block for example a morg or senna stun (outplay) then reattach, because 5 seconds is plenty of time for ultra squishy yuumi to die 5x over; you'll just have to stay attached as it's not worth the risk. Sure you could detach, but yuumi is slow (especially with her meta build of no boots) and any half decent morg, senna, etc is going to land her stun (she was already tough to play against most of the meta supports like pyke, blitz, naut, etc) and yes you will 100% die if that 5 second immobilize punishment procs; shield passive or no shield passive. I honestly just don't understand when she has the lowest win rate in the game, why she's being nerfed at all? I can think of 229 other champs above her in win rate that could use with nerfs.
> [{quoted}](name=Revech,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bH6WvJw1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-07T02:06:54.583+0000) > > Ardent censor accomplished the same thing as the new attack speed buff on Yuumi's "zoomies" E; which now makes ardent censor useless on Yuumi. This is not true, and it makes ardent censor an extremely good buy on Yuumi. The attack speed buff from zoom stacks with ardent censor, giving you something like a 60% attack speed buff with 0 AP. Thats pretty great. As for itemization... {{item:3850}} into {{item:3285}} into {{item:3040}} with mana flow band will be the starting items now. She needs the mana and CDR these items offer to function properly, and a 5 second burst heal that gives movement speed AND attack speed is pretty damn good. The changes to her E have reduced her ability to mitigate range advantages by spacing out zooms as well as cement her role as a buff.
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NxE6wmBq,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-05T08:22:18.036+0000) > > **This goes against _EVERYTHING_ Yuumi is supposed to be.** A time limit makes 0 sense from a gameplay standpoint, and if youre going to go down that route why not just make her into IO from dota 2 and turn her E into a toggle that deals %HP damage to her and gives her ally increased mana and HP regen based on hers? No it really doesn't. She's still gonna do everything she does now. She'll just have limits on how long she can do it.
> [{quoted}](name=Cloud273,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NxE6wmBq,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T21:07:25.335+0000) > > No it really doesn't. She's still gonna do everything she does now. She'll just have limits on how long she can do it. Except that time limit is going to be an arbitrary "YOU CANT DO YOUR JOB" that adds a meaningless barrier to a champion that is designed around being attatched. Imagine if sona had to wait for her current song to end before she played a new one. Or if Nami had to return to the river after casting any ability. It simply doesnt make sense from a gameplay perspective and ruins the champions ability to be viable in any form of competitive setting.
SouL1ess (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:22:02.883+0000) >Yuumi needs to do less damage in favor of more utility. poking should either be safe and worth little more than procing ludens, or it should be risky and rewarding. Her existence as a buff type support is unique and her defning trait, You need to learn that Yuumi is what she is, and not another soraka or sona. Your fantasy for the champion is not good for the game. And Riot agrees with you, not the people that are trying to get some resemblance of balance in League. She's unique and not good for the game.
> [{quoted}](name=SouL1ess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-06T19:54:41.865+0000) > > Your fantasy for the champion is not good for the game. > > And Riot agrees with you, not the people that are trying to get some resemblance of balance in League. > > She's unique and not good for the game. Considering the mana costs in the PBE changes, id argue that she pays for it with what will be the highest single cost ability in the game. 160 mana on a 5 second cooldown is an astronomical cost. Also... Champions like Sona, Nami, and Soraka can effectively area heal by choosing their targets instantly. Yuumi doesnt have the luxury of choosing her targets instantly; Her W both has travel time and dissuades her from hopping from ally unless her carry doesnt need her. Theres nothing wrong with an enchanter who can only work on ONE person at a time, and its probably the most balanced form of enchanter to begin with.
: I said it once and god damnit i'll say it again. bot accounts do not fucking exist. these bot accounts are real human beings like you and me. it they buy boots and running it down mid they are inting and trolling. not botting. ghost and heal summoner spells? they're new players because that is the only options for new players. under level 30 they could be smurfs after main accounts got nailed. bot account do not exist. period.
> [{quoted}](name=Inkling Commando,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R0tg8EmT,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-06T07:18:53.484+0000) > > I said it once and god damnit i'll say it again. bot accounts do not fucking exist. these bot accounts are real human beings like you and me. it they buy boots and running it down mid they are inting and trolling. not botting. ghost and heal summoner spells? they're new players because that is the only options for new players. under level 30 they could be smurfs after main accounts got nailed. bot account do not exist. period. You must RMT, do you know cutedog by chance?
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:22:02.883+0000) > > Do you really need to rant and rave just because you dont understand the actual problems behind Yuumi, or how to solve them without turning her into something she was never intended to be? > No, a duration on her W will not solve anything. > No, her tethered ally being CC'd knocking her off with not solve anything. > No, being able to CC yuumi while tethered would not solve anything. > > The problem with Yuumi is a public perception one. She is a weak, niche champion with a niche playstyle that enables carry champions to carry harder. She is not meant to be a solo champion, she is not meant to have solo capabilities, she is not meant to have traditional counterplay. She is a buff. She is a cat. _*She is a cat buff.*_ > > As i stated, league of legends is a game where "healthy interaction" is considered a zed or Ahri Q, a passthrough skillshot that is not punishable by the opposing party. Unless the opposing party also happens to have a passthrough skillshot of greater length. > Saying that Yuumi "HAS NO INTERACTION" is a flat out lie. Yuumi has plenty of interaction - her unique gameplay style is simply _DIFFERENT_ than other enchanters and affords her a different build path than her peers. She is, again, UNIQUE, and her interaction in the game is through her impact on the person shes currently tied to. Do not think of Yuumi as a single unit, she is not intended to be one and in fact cannot function AS a single unit. > This is no different than ardent days where heal supports would rush ardent censor and then sit behind their marksman spamming heals while being untouchable except when they went up to proc spell spellthiefs, collect coins, or proc runes. > > Yuumi is a champion designed explicitly to stay behind her marksman and benefit from it, providing numerous buffs at the cost of _being very squishy and easily punished when she misplays or her ally misplays_. THAT is the second major form of counterplay to the champion; COORDINATION to deal with HER CARRY which lets you DEAL WITH HER. > Greivous wounds is the first major form of counterplay. It helps tremendously, as does the simple act of counterpicking via a lockdown support, a burst damage support, a burst damage marksman, or a sticky marksman. If you lose to a Yuumi lane, you lost essentialy 1v2 because Yuumi provides mostly sustain and a little poke early on. > > By the mid game, what does it even matter if Yuumi rides the fed top fiora into battle like an angry yordle? It is, again, no different than any other heal support staying behind their carry. Only difference is that if you kill Yuumis carry you also have a 90% chance to kill Yuumi - the PBE changes nearly ensure this with the channel time being added and the cooldown on CC. > > Yuumi IS a buff. Nothing in her kit says otherwise and her entire kit REVOLVES around being tethered to her ally, the PBE changes even reaffirm that Yuumi is a buff. What YOU want is another lulu, sona, or soraka. Another cookie from the cutter. Yuumi is NOT a cookie from the cutter. Shes a custom made cookie with buttercream icing instead of royale. > > She doesnt. Few champions actually do unless its to reward them for what they should be doing anyway. Senna is a perfect example of this - her passive rewards her for interacting... _By harassing enemies, which she already does as an aggressive AD champion_. You can add as many incentives as there are CT haters and it still wont amount to anything if her passive playstyle is still safer. > > Its why my suggestion to solve her problem isnt the solution YOU want. *But let me humor you, what if after using a damaging ability, Yuumi moved in front of her carry and took a % of the damage they take? Would that solve your problem?* > I doubt it would. > > Whats the reason for ANY heal support to risk themselves in that situation? Newsflash; there isnt. Period. A good enchanter will always be behind the carry or the team providing their support as needed. You will almost NEVER collapse directly onto the support unless you are quite ahead or able to escape instantly... in which case _wheres the counterplay to being blown up before anyone can react?_ > > You seem to not realize the inherent power of coordination and attention. I keep pushing the idea of Yuumis Q becoming less of a nuke in the late game because part of the issue at hand is that it adds to the negative perception of an unsuccessful champion who finds niche success in coordinated play. > Yuumi is not a strong champion. Shes niche, and relies entirely on her carry to actually be relevant in order to succeed. As a Yuumi player, the worst feeling i have is when i have no carry, my top laner is a tank, my jungler is a tank, and my mid is behind. Because Yuumi is an _enabler_ she allows winners to _win harder_ rather than being a solo carry such as sona or soraka, champions who can easily turn entire team fights through the power of their AoE utility or easy to land damage. > > You brought up Garen and Olaf. Garen cleanses slows, olaf ill give. > > Darius is a decent example of a champion uninhibited by CC? Hes a juggernaut. He catches you and you get the big hurt; He has his bleed sure, that hardly changes anything when Yuumi allows him to get on and stay on a squishy. > > In such cases you play passively or choose champions who are naturally safe such as ezreal, vayne, lucian, or caitlyn. You seem to be forgetting the fact these are MELEE champions youre talking about, champions who are largely immobile and easy to just not engage with unless they flash on you... Even so, the only champion that can flat ignore hard CC is olaf, an already powerful champion, who is simply _ENABLED_ by Yuumi when he gets ahead. > Imagine if lulu were still popular; Lulu+melee comps were a thing a few seasons ago if you didnt know. Lulu at the time had an above 50% win rate, too. > > No. You DO choose olaf as your carry for his aggressive nature, Yuumi enables him to do what he does even better. Honestly this particular example sounds less like something that its generally a thing and much more like youre salty you got roflstomped by a fed olaf. > Just because you dont like something, doesnt mean its bad. > > Why is Yuumi unhealthy? Because you dont like her? Because you refuse the counterplay in front of your eyes? Because the champions in the game shouldnt direct how you itemize? > Akali had the same problem. People refused the obvious counterplay insisting that they should be able to nuke her at all times. Now we have Senna who has an even stronger Akali shroud and *_no one bats a single eye_*. > Yuumi needs to do less damage in favor of more utility. poking should either be safe and worth little more than procing ludens, or it should be risky and rewarding. Her existence as a buff type support is unique and her defning trait, *_You need to learn that Yuumi is what she is, and not another soraka or sona_*. Ok, say lets make a champion that can oneshot any champion from base every 5 minutes that cannot go out from base. The downside is so massive and outweighs the merits of onshotting a champion every 5 minutes globally so he should be allowed. How do you think about this? No I did not make this question up. This is what a pro said when Yuumi was released.
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T07:13:11.739+0000) > > Ok, say lets make a champion that can oneshot any champion from base every 5 minutes that cannot go out from base. The downside is so massive and outweighs the merits of onshotting a champion every 5 minutes globally so he should be allowed. How do you think about this? > > No I did not make this question up. This is what a pro said when Yuumi was released. You pick and choose one thing i said, and thats what you decide to go with? Not me humoring you and giving you the "i can nuke you" window you wanted? >what if after using a damaging ability, Yuumi moved in front of her carry and took a % of the damage they take? Im right in that this isnt the kind of solution you want, arent i? You want to be able to hit yuumi while tethered, knock her off, then kill her without actually dealing with her kit or interacting with her as a champion. You want a free kill and to make Yuumi into another cookie cutter unfocused generalist utility support.
: This is getting to be too much for me, I’ve had back to back games of these bots feeding over and over, diving towers and messing up the entire game. They make the game terrible and almost impossible to carry, like if your gonna put bots in pvp, don’t make them more stupid than the intro bots. I’m lvl 68 and they’re in my matches quite often. They also prevent surrendering by not voting which makes you suffer through the torment or dodge but either ways you’re Penalized with either being locked out of queue or mentally dealing with a fed ass enemy champ. I’m sick of this...
> [{quoted}](name=WesternSaturn46,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R0tg8EmT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-06T07:13:48.279+0000) > > This is getting to be too much for me, I’ve had back to back games of these bots feeding over and over, diving towers and messing up the entire game. They make the game terrible and almost impossible to carry, like if your gonna put bots in pvp, don’t make them more stupid than the intro bots. I’m lvl 68 and they’re in my matches quite often. They also prevent surrendering by not voting which makes you suffer through the torment or dodge but either ways you’re Penalized with either being locked out of queue or mentally dealing with a fed ass enemy champ. > > I’m sick of this... 1) dont necro. 2) Bots in PvP is incredibly brazen, are you reporting them?
: A (seemingly) unpopular opinion regarding the Yuumi Changes on the PBE
Because the new mana costs are astronomical and her W being interuptable as well as CC putting it on a 5 second cooldown makes her feel quite clunky. You feel forced to stick to one champion at any given time and punished for ever leaving. That being said, i like the changes too. I feel her Q needs to be scrapped entirely though... Personally, id make her Q deal her base AD as magic damage, then add an additional effect based on whether shes tethered or not. While tethered; she can control it like now, and hitting an enemy champion gives her tethered ally a 25/35/45//55/65+0.25AP shield up to 325+1.0AP while shes tethered to that ally. While untethered; it becomes a targeted spell that deals her base AD as magic damage plus an additional 40/60/80/100/120+0.5AP magic damage.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:28:40.955+0000) > > Okay. How does one interact with a sona who stands behind their marksman? Jump on her and kill her. > Or a nami who stands behind their marksman? Jump on her and kill her. > Or a soraka who stands behind their marksman? Jump on her and kill her. > The only difference between them and Yuumi is that Yuumi is designed around being a buff. She is, realistically, forced to play passively because she is inherently unsafe unless she burns her ult, unlike the above mentioned three who can defend themselves with CC or steroids. > The nerfs to Yuumis MS buff will go a little ways to helping, the nerfs to her W will go a LONG way to punishing her for making bad decisions. The difference between them and Yuumi is that it is possible to target them, to get them low so they have to cede lane priority, die, or back. Yuumi doesn't have to do any of that shit because she is invincible while attached to her carry. You're straight up lying if you think that Yuumi being impossible to target or interact with and another enchanter just trying to stay away from you is the same thing. Your reasoning is terrible.
> [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:30:01.877+0000) > > Jump on her and kill her. > Jump on her and kill her. > Jump on her and kill her. > The difference between them and Yuumi is that it is possible to target them, to get them low so they have to cede lane priority, die, or back. > Yuumi doesn't have to do any of that shit because she is invincible while attached to her carry. So... Why dont you jump on her carry? Coordinate to kill the carry and Yuumi is likely to fall. Even better, shut down the bot lane because a Yuumi lane is a _1v2_ lane where you can focus on pressure and a small lead quickly snowballs, allowing the jungler to go elsewhere and make sure top and mid arent losing. Yuumi is an enabler champion. She enables winners to win harder and doesnt function well when her allies are behind. The changes on PBE help greatly in cementing that fact. > You're straight up lying if you think that Yuumi being impossible to target or interact with and another enchanter just trying to stay away from you is the same thing. Your reasoning is terrible. Just because you dont like a champion doesnt meant theyre bad and unhealthy. I compare Yuumi to her peers because Yuumi is even more vulnerable than them. Lets put a hypothetical into play, yeah? Jungler is Rengar. Bot is lucian. Support is Soraka. Normal enchanter lane post six: Lucian and soraka engage on your marksman. Rengar jumps you. With you dead, the rengar can focus on the marksman and its an easy double. Or you escape the rengar and your marksman still dies. Successful gank. Yuumi post six: Lucian and soraka engage on your marksman. Rengar jumps your marksman. You ult to stop the rengar from chasing. By the time your ult has finished your marksman has lost the 1v3 and rengar has killed you. Easy double. Or you successfully defend against the rengar and your marksman still dies because they arent ahead enough to benefit from your W much yet. ___________________________________________________ The PBE changes reduce her damage in favor of more utility, which is something that she needs in order to shift her perception as an artillery cat to that of a buff cat. Please remember, just because you feel you have a right given by god himself to nuke everything whenever you want... doesnt mean its true, and it doesnt mean that anything you CANT nuke whenever you want is inherently evil.
: She can sit on top of her ADC for an indefinite amount of time and spam abilities, and her entire kit revolves around her being attached to someone. The core of her design makes her harder to balance and **it also creates scenarios that balancing with simple number changes can't fix.** I've read posts that Yuumi promotes duo boosting cause a high rank adc will have an easier time carrying a Yuumi player. Its an uncommon scenario but Yuumi allows it to happen. She doesn't need to build boots because she rarely detaches from allies except when they're dead. Though she can still build them I rarely see Yuumi players do it. Its a reasonable trade-off but it also means an extra 900-1100G to use for other items. Because of how she's designed she can skip using flash as well. {{summoner:14}} {{summoner:3}} Imagine how strong any other support would be if they could stop using flash and start using Ignite and Exhaust instead? Her ADC can reliably use {{summoner:21}} or {{summoner:12}} instead of {{summoner:7}} and Yuumi can use {{summoner:14}} {{summoner:3}} or {{summoner:14}} {{summoner:7}} or {{summoner:3}} {{summoner:7}}. It's also worth noting that Yuumi was able to teleport with allies she's attached to and Riot's removing that interaction because its too strong. Now lets go off topic a little and remind you how hated and still hated {{item:3504}} meta was. People hated it so much that it that it got all enchanters nerfed and people are still mad about it and want supports to nerfed into the ground, _**but then they created this thing, the most uninteractive enchanter that may ever exist**_ {{champion:350}}, so its not surprising that people hate laning against Yuumi.
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Pace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:54:30.036+0000) > > Snip It sounds like you flat just dont like Yuumi, therefore she is bad and unhealthy.
: What bad decisions are there when you're untargetable and just spam Q off CD? How do you interact with something that by design you cannot interact with? Sona, Nami, and Soraka all have a target on their backs. Yuumi doesn't. She's immune to that target.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:47:26.346+0000) > > What bad decisions are there when you're untargetable and just spam Q off CD? > > How do you interact with something that by design you cannot interact with? > > Sona, Nami, and Soraka all have a target on their backs. Yuumi doesn't. She's immune to that target. Yuumi can not detatch as they watch their carry get collapsed on, she can attatch to a suicide run, she can choose to try and secure a kill... Her Q making her public perception be that of an artillery cat IS the problem, not her tether mechanics. Its the entire reason riot is pushing her more towards a heal centric build. Its also why i push for her Q to become a targeted spell that deals base AD and procs additional damage while not tethered and to deal base AD while procing a low value, stackable shield while tethered. You want to see Yuumi as an individual champion. She is not intended to be a single unit, shes intended to be a buff and her entire existence shows that. Unlike Soraka, sona, lulu, janna, and nami Yuumi NEEDS that ally to be tethered to her to be effective, and she only benefits ONE ally at a time instead of several. Nor can she swap instantly to respond to threats as needed; she has travel time when she goes from ally to ally. Also... Wheres the interaction with a fizz W? A zed Q? An Ahri Q? There isnt counterplay except dodge the skillshot in the last two -something you can do to a Yuumi Q as well.
Barcid (NA)
: There's an episode of "Strange Addictions" where a woman became addicted to eating feces contaminated food, and continued to act as if it may even be _healthy_ for her. This reminds me of that. Because what you're trying to do is justify how a champion that literally has no interaction whatsoever - and I mean functionally zilch, nada, not a thing, can't kill her can't detach her from her champion - is perfectly fine while listing off traits that are completely not. > Yuumi is too squishy to take much heat, she doesn't do enough damage to warrant taking risks This is something I said _verbatim_ and is the leading argument. Yes. She doesn't do either of those things. That's a _problem_. What you seem to be asking for is a buff bot, which in a way translates to the "enchanter class" in general, but the thing is that you can go and _kill_ champions like Lulu. You can even force Lulu to waste her buffs on herself so her teammate remains vulnerable - you can't do that with Yuumi unless she detaches herself, which circles us all the way back around to the question of **why would Yuumi ever detach from her host?** Which you haven't given much of a reason why she would - okay, her Q costs are up in lane and she needs to recover mana? While that's fine, there are numerous items to remedy that and no small amount of runes for that as well, but even ignoring those, we're basically covering one single aspect of her time in a game and that's laning - what about _outside_ of laning? How about skirmishes? Teamfights? What's her reason to hop off in _those_? You keep going on the Q suggestion, but you fail to realize that giving her bonus utility on her Q without asking her to hop off exacerbates the problem that we still aren't able to touch Yuumi. She stays pinned to her host until _they_ die, meaning you are _forced_ to try and kill a semi-permanently buffed champion. The other thing is that I didn't bring up a melee issue - I brought up an issue of if Yuumi is placed on a champion who's uninhibited by CC. Darius ironically actually _is_ a decent example of this as his bleed continues to do damage even if he's CC'd and his Q just has to be activated to make sure it goes through. Garen's E is uninterruptible and Olaf has an ult literally allowing him to ignore CC - this is the point I'm making, that one of the things allowing you to deal with Yuumi buffing a champion (IE keep them locked down to kingdom come so you can kill them through the buffs) can be not just partially but **_completely_** mitigated by certain champions. They didn't choose Olaf because he's hyper aggressive - it's because he can literally charge his fat ass through 9 metric tons of CC and frontline with a speed steroid and some guaranteed snares in order to pulverize enemy champions. On top of this, Olaf has an AS steroid built into his kit, allowing him to maximize the effects of Yuumi's passive AD increase on him, and this in turn helps his built in lifesteal. **And you can't counter that like you can against a Janna because you can't fucking separate Yuumi from her host.** Look, at this point I've already realized you and I just will not see eye to eye on this. My point still stands here - Yuumi does not offer healthy or fair gameplay, and she needs changes that bring her _**off**_ of her teammates instead of piling on to the reasons that she should stay **_on_** them, and you can take or leave this input. Though you're probably going to leave it, so this whole explanation is more for the benefit of others rather than for you yourself. So if you have anything else to add, go for it, but this is where I'm putting a period on my point as I've already reiterated it too many times so far.
Do you really need to rant and rave just because you dont understand the actual problems behind Yuumi, or how to solve them without turning her into something she was never intended to be? No, a duration on her W will not solve anything. No, her tethered ally being CC'd knocking her off with not solve anything. No, being able to CC yuumi while tethered would not solve anything. The problem with Yuumi is a public perception one. She is a weak, niche champion with a niche playstyle that enables carry champions to carry harder. She is not meant to be a solo champion, she is not meant to have solo capabilities, she is not meant to have traditional counterplay. She is a buff. She is a cat. _*She is a cat buff.*_ > [{quoted}](name=Barcid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:34:15.105+0000) > > There's an episode of "Strange Addictions" where a woman became addicted to eating feces contaminated food, and continued to act as if it may even be _healthy_ for her. > > This reminds me of that. Because what you're trying to do is justify how a champion that literally has no interaction whatsoever - and I mean functionally zilch, nada, not a thing, can't kill her can't detach her from her champion - is perfectly fine while listing off traits that are completely not. As i stated, league of legends is a game where "healthy interaction" is considered a zed or Ahri Q, a passthrough skillshot that is not punishable by the opposing party. Unless the opposing party also happens to have a passthrough skillshot of greater length. Saying that Yuumi "HAS NO INTERACTION" is a flat out lie. Yuumi has plenty of interaction - her unique gameplay style is simply _DIFFERENT_ than other enchanters and affords her a different build path than her peers. She is, again, UNIQUE, and her interaction in the game is through her impact on the person shes currently tied to. Do not think of Yuumi as a single unit, she is not intended to be one and in fact cannot function AS a single unit. This is no different than ardent days where heal supports would rush ardent censor and then sit behind their marksman spamming heals while being untouchable except when they went up to proc spell spellthiefs, collect coins, or proc runes. Yuumi is a champion designed explicitly to stay behind her marksman and benefit from it, providing numerous buffs at the cost of _being very squishy and easily punished when she misplays or her ally misplays_. THAT is the second major form of counterplay to the champion; COORDINATION to deal with HER CARRY which lets you DEAL WITH HER. Greivous wounds is the first major form of counterplay. It helps tremendously, as does the simple act of counterpicking via a lockdown support, a burst damage support, a burst damage marksman, or a sticky marksman. If you lose to a Yuumi lane, you lost essentialy 1v2 because Yuumi provides mostly sustain and a little poke early on. By the mid game, what does it even matter if Yuumi rides the fed top fiora into battle like an angry yordle? It is, again, no different than any other heal support staying behind their carry. Only difference is that if you kill Yuumis carry you also have a 90% chance to kill Yuumi - the PBE changes nearly ensure this with the channel time being added and the cooldown on CC. > This is something I said _verbatim_ and is the leading argument. Yes. She doesn't do either of those things. That's a _problem_. What you seem to be asking for is a buff bot, which in a way translates to the "enchanter class" in general, but the thing is that you can go and _kill_ champions like Lulu. You can even force Lulu to waste her buffs on herself so her teammate remains vulnerable - Yuumi IS a buff. Nothing in her kit says otherwise and her entire kit REVOLVES around being tethered to her ally, the PBE changes even reaffirm that Yuumi is a buff. What YOU want is another lulu, sona, or soraka. Another cookie from the cutter. Yuumi is NOT a cookie from the cutter. Shes a custom made cookie with buttercream icing instead of royale. >you can't do that with Yuumi unless she detaches herself, which circles us all the way back around to the question of **why would Yuumi ever detach from her host?** Which you haven't given much of a reason why she would She doesnt. Few champions actually do unless its to reward them for what they should be doing anyway. Senna is a perfect example of this - her passive rewards her for interacting... _By harassing enemies, which she already does as an aggressive AD champion_. You can add as many incentives as there are CT haters and it still wont amount to anything if her passive playstyle is still safer. Its why my suggestion to solve her problem isnt the solution YOU want. *But let me humor you, what if after using a damaging ability, Yuumi moved in front of her carry and took a % of the damage they take? Would that solve your problem?* I doubt it would. > - okay, her Q costs are up in lane and she needs to recover mana? While that's fine, there are numerous items to remedy that and no small amount of runes for that as well, but even ignoring those, we're basically covering one single aspect of her time in a game and that's laning - what about _outside_ of laning? How about skirmishes? Teamfights? What's her reason to hop off in _those_? Whats the reason for ANY heal support to risk themselves in that situation? Newsflash; there isnt. Period. A good enchanter will always be behind the carry or the team providing their support as needed. You will almost NEVER collapse directly onto the support unless you are quite ahead or able to escape instantly... in which case _wheres the counterplay to being blown up before anyone can react?_ >You keep going on the Q suggestion, but you fail to realize that giving her bonus utility on her Q without asking her to hop off exacerbates the problem that we still aren't able to touch Yuumi. She stays pinned to her host until _they_ die, meaning you are _forced_ to try and kill a semi-permanently buffed champion. You seem to not realize the inherent power of coordination and attention. I keep pushing the idea of Yuumis Q becoming less of a nuke in the late game because part of the issue at hand is that it adds to the negative perception of an unsuccessful champion who finds niche success in coordinated play. Yuumi is not a strong champion. Shes niche, and relies entirely on her carry to actually be relevant in order to succeed. As a Yuumi player, the worst feeling i have is when i have no carry, my top laner is a tank, my jungler is a tank, and my mid is behind. Because Yuumi is an _enabler_ she allows winners to _win harder_ rather than being a solo carry such as sona or soraka, champions who can easily turn entire team fights through the power of their AoE utility or easy to land damage. > The other thing is that I didn't bring up a melee issue - I brought up an issue of if Yuumi is placed on a champion who's uninhibited by CC. You brought up Garen and Olaf. Garen cleanses slows, olaf ill give. >Darius ironically actually _is_ a decent example of this as his bleed continues to do damage even if he's CC'd and his Q just has to be activated to make sure it goes through. Darius is a decent example of a champion uninhibited by CC? Hes a juggernaut. He catches you and you get the big hurt; He has his bleed sure, that hardly changes anything when Yuumi allows him to get on and stay on a squishy. >Garen's E is uninterruptible and Olaf has an ult literally allowing him to ignore CC - this is the point I'm making, that one of the things allowing you to deal with Yuumi buffing a champion (IE keep them locked down to kingdom come so you can kill them through the buffs) can be not just partially but **_completely_** mitigated by certain champions. In such cases you play passively or choose champions who are naturally safe such as ezreal, vayne, lucian, or caitlyn. You seem to be forgetting the fact these are MELEE champions youre talking about, champions who are largely immobile and easy to just not engage with unless they flash on you... Even so, the only champion that can flat ignore hard CC is olaf, an already powerful champion, who is simply _ENABLED_ by Yuumi when he gets ahead. Imagine if lulu were still popular; Lulu+melee comps were a thing a few seasons ago if you didnt know. Lulu at the time had an above 50% win rate, too. >They didn't choose Olaf because he's hyper aggressive - it's because he can literally charge his fat ass through 9 metric tons of CC and frontline with a speed steroid and some guaranteed snares in order to pulverize enemy champions. On top of this, Olaf has an AS steroid built into his kit, allowing him to maximize the effects of Yuumi's passive AD increase on him, and this in turn helps his built in lifesteal. **And you can't counter that like you can against a Janna because you can't fucking separate Yuumi from her host.** No. You DO choose olaf as your carry for his aggressive nature, Yuumi enables him to do what he does even better. Honestly this particular example sounds less like something that its generally a thing and much more like youre salty you got roflstomped by a fed olaf. Just because you dont like something, doesnt mean its bad. > Snip because character limit Why is Yuumi unhealthy? Because you dont like her? Because you refuse the counterplay in front of your eyes? Because the champions in the game shouldnt direct how you itemize? Akali had the same problem. People refused the obvious counterplay insisting that they should be able to nuke her at all times. Now we have Senna who has an even stronger Akali shroud and *_no one bats a single eye_*. Yuumi needs to do less damage in favor of more utility. poking should either be safe and worth little more than procing ludens, or it should be risky and rewarding. Her existence as a buff type support is unique and her defning trait, *_You need to learn that Yuumi is what she is, and not another soraka or sona_*.
: Yuumi's core issue is lack of interaction. The main way for the enemy to interact with her is buying GW. That kinda says something.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:13:35.190+0000) > > Yuumi's core issue is lack of interaction. > > The main way for the enemy to interact with her is buying GW. That kinda says something. Okay. How does one interact with a sona who stands behind their marksman? Or a nami who stands behind their marksman? Or a soraka who stands behind their marksman? The only difference between them and Yuumi is that Yuumi is designed around being a buff. She is, realistically, forced to play passively because she is inherently unsafe unless she burns her ult, unlike the above mentioned three who can defend themselves with CC or steroids. The nerfs to Yuumis MS buff will go a little ways to helping, the nerfs to her W will go a LONG way to punishing her for making bad decisions.
Revech (NA)
: That sounds really exciting and interesting. Especially the idea of a separate kit somehow interactive with her book. A separate kit is not a new idea to league (i.e. rek sai), and any argument that a seperate kit concept is to complicated, can just point out Aphelios kit seems much more complicated. Hopefully this post gets lots of upvotes.
> [{quoted}](name=Revech,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:05:02.348+0000) > > That sounds really exciting and interesting. Especially the idea of a separate kit somehow interactive with her book. A separate kid is not a new idea to league, and any argument that it's to complicated, can just point out Aphelios kit seems much more complicated. Hopefully this post gets lots of upvotes. Aphelios kit is actually pretty simple, its just "large".
: He stated no values and instead implied that it would gain the values or similar values to what you had listed. ~~Given you did not list any base stats, gold or build path for the item that means that the build path suggestion is perfectly in line with what you suggested at the time.~~ The only differentials here are his suggestion for health rather than a shield and it being an item rather than a rune. For reference, his comment contains only this information: > [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T00:03:18.759+0000) > > Might also work as a passive or active on a hybrid defense item. > > {{item:3105}}+{{item:1031}}+{{item:1057}} It does not contain any values other than the stats given by those items and the gold costs associated. --- I also don't know why I care. Just bugged me I think.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T05:01:50.094+0000) > > He stated no values and instead implied that it would gain the values or similar values to what you had listed. > > Given you did not list any base stats, gold or build path for the item that means that the build path suggestion is perfectly in line with what you suggested at the time. That'd be because i suggested a keystone ^^' **This sounds like a pretty good keystone, honestly. Replace aftershock with it? Lets call it Runic Bulwark.**
: Yknow what he suggested and what you suggested are essentially the same thing right? Only one is health and the other is a shield. I was just pointing that out is all.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T04:44:57.601+0000) > > Yknow what he suggested and what you suggested are essentially the same thing right? Only one is health and the other is a shield. > > I was just pointing that out is all. ... Mine gives flat values for flat values, promoting hybridiztion and healthy tanks rather than the OPs which promotes specialization and isnt heathy. For every 1armor and MR after 120, gain 5 shield. The AND is not an average - its a condition.
Barcid (NA)
: I don't know where your second part of your argument came from that she's fun to play - I never implied she isn't fun for people to play. I'm sure she's enjoyable to some. But... so is Yasuo. So is Yasuo healthy gameplay? Is his windwall fair to other players? Is his laning fun and interactive with how he shrugs off most trades by dashing to his opponent, chunking some health off of them before his shield burns out, and then dashing back away to walk back and forth to get his shield back up? I'm sure Yasuo is super fun to those who play him. That's why he's popular - **facing** Yasuo in lane, however, is akin to having an aneurysm. It is frustrating, it is toxic, it is flat out _unfair_ to have a champion that scales that well able to stand toe-to-toe so well in a lane. And that's basically Yuumi - she's fun to her players, a frustrating mess to play against to anyone on the opposing side. Sure, you named some ways to counter her with items - but every single champion has itemization counterplay. Where the difference lies between Yuumi and others is that Yuumi otherwise doesn't have counterplay in terms of _gameplay._ Yuumi just _doesn't_. You _don't_ interact with her any more than she wants you to. You interact with her host, and try as you may to argue that that's thereby interacting with Yuumi, the fact is Yuumi is only in as much danger as her host is putting her in and beyond that it's if she wishes to put _herself_ in danger, which she can completely freely choose whether or not to do that. And while I like your suggestion to a point, that really only helps playing against Yuumi in lane - by the mid to late-game, Yuumi will hardly be trying to proc her passive without her frontline glued to your face, she will have next to no reason to hop off for some meager poke - she'll still play the same way, glued to her teammate, only this time we'd be facing even _**less**_ counterplay because she wouldn't have to jump off to give her ally a shield. The issue, basically, is that Yuumi still has, quite frankly, _zero_ reason to leave her host, and so never has a reason to interact with you as a player. You have to outplay Yuumi's host, and for Yuumi to function as a champion, the buffs the host gets from Yuumi has to make up for Yuumi's practical lack of champion-hood. In other words: Yuumi's on a champion, that champion is in essence two champions. While this has drawbacks like allowing strong CC to be able to lock down what is basically two champions at once (hence why Nautilus crushes this lane), this weakness stops being as relevant against things such as Garen or - god help you - Olaf. I will end this by saying this: even Janna can be peeled away from her allies to keep her from being able to protect or empower them. How do you peel Yuumi away from her host, though? And keep in mind that repeating your argument from earlier equivocates to "When she decides she wants to be off of them", which still means there is zero power in the hands of her opponent and all of it is on Yuumi in terms of counterplay.
> [{quoted}](name=Barcid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-06T04:37:40.427+0000) > > snip To be fair, few champions have much reason to interact and league of legends is a game where people think zed and Ahri hitting you with high damage pass through skill shots you cant punish them for is healthy interaction because "they at least hit you". No matter how much incentive you put on a champion to 'interact', it means nothing if the playerbase chooses not to because of other reasons. Its why you shouldnt _FORCE_ champions to interact unless its a reward for what you should be doing anyway, like senna is. She might be absurdly broken and in desperate need of nerfs, but she IS well designed at a base level. Yuumi is to squishy to take much heat, she doesnt do enough damage to warrant taking risks, and when the PBE buffs come to pass shes REALLY going to be a great little cat buff who just needs her Q removed in favor of something fundamentally less powerful for damage unless she takes a risk. Also, touching on your melee complaint, Yuumi is an enabler. The problem with melee vs ranged is that melee cant really close the gap before ranged destroys them, unless the melee is mobile (at which point they dont need a support to begin with). Yuumi on a melee carry like Garen or Olaf isnt broken or even a generally strong thing... Its a niche counterpick that cropped up because pro players were playing safer, longer range marksmen who take longer to scale (or lucian) and a highly aggressive, early game oriented champion is the perfect thing to counter that. Having been on the receiving end of a Yuumi Darius lane as a nami more than once during games with friends, i can tell you that to lose early to such a comp means the botlane is lost and our marksman top or jungle had to carry. Theres also the fact that no one expects a melee to jump on you like a melee yuumi comp can. You get a shock when it happens, and your knee jerk is "WTF IS THAT RITO".
Barcid (NA)
: Well that's kind of the point, though - you at no point outplay Yuumi _herself_. Rather, you outplay her host. If Yuumi had more reason to hop off her host for longer, then you would far more arguably be able to outplay Yuumi then - but as of current, her rewards for hopping off a host are minimal, and with this upcoming update they actually shrink even more as she is not only less able to return once she hops off, but also everything she has in her kit is significantly stronger on another champion than by herself, the only exception being the shield she can grab if she hops off - which, if we're being perfectly honest, could get popped the moment she gets it by any kind of AoE and could sooner just wind up being a flat risk with no real reward. The point at the end, then, is that Yuumi needs some kind of changes that encourage her to jump off and not just for a split second to get a shield - giving her some kit changes to encourage her to stay on the field for a bit while fostering a more bruiser-esque approach instead of just sitting there pinned to an ally would make her have legitimate interactivity between her and her laning opponents instead of basically just being between her ADC and her opponents. Let's also remember that Yuumi has her _book_ to offer inspiration on potential abilities and changes. As of current, the book pretty only comes into play thematically during her ult, but could very easily offer abilities allowing for Yuumi's detached gameplay. Hell, Nidalee has different abilities while in cat form to her human form, and so does Rek'Sai when she's burrowed - if Yuumi picked up a separate skillset while attached to a host from her being detached, you could allow her to be a functioning unit in both realms. But before even looking at that, the main issue cropping up is that Yuumi's W does nothing when she detaches but offers critical passive buffs to her teammate while she's attached - she needs something in her gameplay that legitimately asks her to step off and interact, or any time she's in a lane there will continue to be a lack of direct interaction between Yuumi and the enemy.
> [{quoted}](name=Barcid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T04:15:39.818+0000) > > > Let's also remember that Yuumi has her _book_ to offer inspiration on potential abilities and changes. As of current, the book pretty only comes into play thematically during her ult, but could very easily offer abilities allowing for Yuumi's detached gameplay. Hell, Nidalee has different abilities while in cat form to her human form, and so does Rek'Sai when she's burrowed - if Yuumi picked up a separate skillset while attached to a host from her being detached, you could allow her to be a functioning unit in both realms. But before even looking at that, the main issue cropping up is that Yuumi's W does nothing when she detaches but offers critical passive buffs to her teammate while she's attached - she needs something in her gameplay that legitimately asks her to step off and interact, or any time she's in a lane there will continue to be a lack of direct interaction between Yuumi and the enemy. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1mF3TEYw-would-this-support-kit-be-unique-up-op-or-just-stupid?show=new SHameless plug of a friends concept. Double kit champions can be hard to balance, especially if their intended role is enchanter support. You notice nidalee was never balanced as a support - always as a caster or a jungler. I think the better option is to simply make Yuumi a guranteed kill if she gets caught or misplays; the current changes on PBE reflect that and push her more into a buff cat than she is now. The real problem however is public perception of her, also known as the roadhog issue: _No matter how weak she actually is the public perception is that shes oppressive and very strong._
: bot games have bots in them? GASP. its a bot game man. it doesnt really matter. at least theyre not all in SR
> [{quoted}](name=ScoobsLuvsDoobs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MhaAyvbj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-06T03:43:39.481+0000) > > bot games have bots in them? GASP. > its a bot game man. it doesnt really matter. at least theyre not all in SR This isnt the right response. Excusing it because its not ranked is like saying murder is okay because its from a group i dont like. __________________________________________________________ Its preseason. Botters are building up their stocks to sell for the season so that high ELO players dont have to struggle to make fresh accounts. How do you think big streamers always have low MMR accounts for their climb series? They dont have the time to level those themselves when they can just RMT one.
: He means an effect that would effectively grant you bonus health for all the armor/mr you build. So basically Stoneplate Active but scaling off resistances rather than health.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T02:44:48.040+0000) > > He means an effect that would effectively grant you bonus health for all the armor/mr you build. > > So basically Stoneplate Active but scaling off resistances rather than health. OP specifically suggests resistances after a point giving you a type specific shield that scales with the amount of relevent resistances for that type. The idea itself - tanks being rewarded for building resistances - is not a bad idea. But rewarding specialization isnt smart because it promotes specialization and pigeonholding; Malphite and Rammus for example are _already_ really good against AD comps. Making them EVEN BETTER against AD comps isnt quite healthy for the game though. Which is why i suggested what i suggested; Rewarding hybridization of resistances to promote healthy tanks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-12-06T03:16:57.784+0000) > > Being the MAIN gimmick the entire kit is based around means that initial balance sweep takes it into consideration. Yuumi, if her carry is killed, WILL also be killed. > If Yuumi mispositions and gets on the wrong person she WILL be killed. > If Yuumi misplays and gets caught she WILL be killed (even by a true tank like braum or leona). > > Yuumi has very minimal ability to survive damage on her own, even building full AP her E only nets her maybe 400MS. That inability is compounded by the fact she doesnt tend to buy boots; if her carry isnt smart or gets caught, she has a 90% chance to die with them. If you cannot see the problem while writing it by your own hand, you are really one lost cause.
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T03:20:52.907+0000) > > If you cannot see the problem while writing it by your own hand, you are really one lost cause. One word for you. Roadhog. The problem with Yuumi is partially that her Q is powerful enough that when combined with her unique playstyle she can viably build full AP rather than the normal enchanter items. This leads to people thinking that shes an artillery cat who has no counter play because she hides behind her carry (which is no different than any other enchanter support of skill, honestly). The problem is not with Yuumi, the problem is with the publics perception of her. The solution to this is what riot is already doing; consolidating her from "artillery cat with heals" into "flashy cat buff". Her E becoming severely overloaded, her W buffs, her passive buffs, are all doing good things to help public perception shift away from "SHE DOES TO MUCH DAMAGE AND I CANT KILL HER FIRST RITO". Her Q is the actual problem, and it needs a total rework. Personally, i think turning it into a basic attack spell like ezreals Q is the right call. Untethered it can proc her passive damage, tethered it can proc her passive shield (and be controlled as it is now). I also mean that it does her basic attack damage and procs a portion of her passive - not that its a spell that also triggers on hit effect. Her untethered Q would not proc her passive, she would have to basic attack twice to get both off. This way, Yuumi has to choose to put herself into danger to proc her passive and get mana back, choose to use her Q to proc additional damage, or choose to stay safe and just be cat buff.
Barcid (NA)
: The Yuumi changes flat out miss the mark of what her problem is
>This is gonna be rough for all those who really like playing Yuumi to have to read - but Yuumi's issues boil down to her very kit, not just as a >"backpack" champion, but to how it plays. To put it bluntly: Yuumi has zero counterplay. >"But that's not true! Hard engaging on her in-lane is her weakness! ADC's make terrible frontline champions to try and eat damage with. So all you >have to do is all-in her!" >The problem with this argument is this: You are not at any point engaging on Yuumi. You engage on her host. Yuumi is so removed from the action >you have no means of actually getting to her. >So that's just it, then. Yuumi as a concept is horribly flawed, can't be made to work, and will always have no counterplay. All right, team, that's a >wrap then! Mystery solved, let's go home! Im going to argue your take on Yuumi is as flawed as you think she is, because you fail to recognize the actual counterplay at hand here. Theres many different kinds of counterplay, and in Yuumis case, her counterplay involves _items, burst damage, and simply playing around her passive_. As you said Yuumi is a champion who enables others to carry, rather than being an explicit carry herself. **Cat buff, is, in fact, a buff that is a cat.** Any form of coordination and lockdown will completely destroy a Yuumi lane since its a 1v2 lane because her counterplay, while not direct, is essentially basic sense; Greivous wounds Hard to Semi hard CC Burst damage Offensive mobility Its _VERY_ easy to punish the cat buff for misplays, and with the PBE changes it will be even easier because her mana costs are going sky high. Theres nothing wrong with Yuumi being a buff - in fact, its a playstyle that is ENJOYABLE when you actually learn it because you can focus on other aspects of the game like the state of the map as a whole without compromising the lane. I will concede the current state of Yuumi is to far in the middle. The PBE changes are very clearly an attempt to consolidate her into the cat buff position rather than an artillery cat, which i approve of, but she still needs changes. Her Q, for example, NEEDS to be scrapped entirely and replaced with something else that works better for her cat buff theme. Personally i think her Q should just become an empowered basic attack that procs a part of her passive; While tethered it procs the shield part, while not tethered it procs the damage part and gives her increased range. In this way Yuumi can choose whether or not she wants to poke or not, instead of just lobbing off Qs like nidalee spears. It would also make Yuumi very vulnerable - and therefore punishable - if she tries to land her standard passive then an empowered Q auto, which would be good for perception.
Eedat (NA)
: > Lower than Senna? Oh ***easily*** lower than hers. Lower than any other champ in the game by a wide margin. The amount of skill it takes to play Yuumi at a usable level is practically zero. Her kit removes ***basic*** gameplay mechanics that every other champ in the game has to use like positioning, orb walking, kiting, etc. > Yuumi's tether is her major gameplay gimmick and she has extremely low base stats and unparalleled inability to survive because of it. Her base stats mean nothing because you dont get to interact with her lol. Just because a champ has a gimmick doesnt mean the gimmick isnt a problem. A gimmick is just part of a champs kit. Any part of a champs kit can be problematic. Being 'a gimmck' does not mean it is healthy and does not give it immunity from being problematic
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROAq8hds,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-06T01:48:32.991+0000) > > Oh ***easily*** lower than hers. Lower than any other champ in the game by a wide margin. The amount of skill it takes to play Yuumi at a usable level is practically zero. Her kit removes ***basic*** gameplay mechanics that every other champ in the game has to use like positioning, orb walking, kiting, etc. > > Her base stats mean nothing because you dont get to interact with her lol. Just because a champ has a gimmick doesnt mean the gimmick isnt a problem. A gimmick is just part of a champs kit. Any part of a champs kit can be problematic. Being 'a gimmck' does not mean it is healthy and does not give it immunity from being problematic Being the MAIN gimmick the entire kit is based around means that initial balance sweep takes it into consideration. Yuumi, if her carry is killed, WILL also be killed. If Yuumi mispositions and gets on the wrong person she WILL be killed. If Yuumi misplays and gets caught she WILL be killed (even by a true tank like braum or leona). Yuumi has very minimal ability to survive damage on her own, even building full AP her E only nets her maybe 400MS. That inability is compounded by the fact she doesnt tend to buy boots; if her carry isnt smart or gets caught, she has a 90% chance to die with them.
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Paroe

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