Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HjkZ8eXT,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-17T22:50:44.626+0000) > > How is greivous wounds a hard counter to duelists and juggs? > Unless the champion with thornmail is Rammus, Cho, or Sion thornmail is an extremely situational item that doesnt really effect a duelists, marksman, or juggs effectiveness. You heal/sustain significantly less and thus die faster in fights. It makes a huge difference.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HjkZ8eXT,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T00:31:23.357+0000) > > You heal/sustain significantly less and thus die faster in fights. It makes a huge difference. Then dont basic attack the tank with it recklessly? Bramble vest only procs when youre hit with a basic attack. Also, it seems your complaint is that champions who are used to drain tanking cant drain tank while 1v5'ing because of grievous wounds? Do i have that right?
Lovelle (NA)
: I don't really know. Bramble vest just ends up hard countering melee auto-attackers and juggernauts, who already aren't that strong apart from a few outliers. Personally feel like there is enough grievous wounds in the game since every mage builds {{item:3165}}.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HjkZ8eXT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-17T22:30:46.197+0000) > > I don't really know. Bramble vest just ends up hard countering melee auto-attackers and juggernauts, who already aren't that strong apart from a few outliers. > > Personally feel like there is enough grievous wounds in the game since every mage builds {{item:3165}}. How is greivous wounds a hard counter to duelists and juggs? Unless the champion with thornmail is Rammus, Cho, or Sion thornmail is an extremely situational item that doesnt really effect a duelists, marksman, or juggs effectiveness.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7YEm3HZv,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T21:18:26.108+0000) > > If Yi kills you, he was going to kill you regardless. Much like vayne; if you escape without help vayne couldnt have killed you to start with. > > Thornmail is for greivous wounds. It is not meant to be a one item counter to an entire champion. > Adaptive helm is for the reduced magic damage, it is not meant to be a one item counter to an entire champion. > Ideally, you want to CC his E so he cant melt you with true damage... but if youre a squishy who dies very quickly, heres a newflash; you were dead the moment he closed the gap on you. That’s like saying “if you’re going to lose this game you’re going to lose this game” :/ And if a champions only counter is cc, then the champion is a failure, because cc counters EVERYTHING in this game. Also qss is a thing and he can dodge any and all cc with his q if he is even slightly good.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7YEm3HZv,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T22:23:40.723+0000) > > That’s like saying “if you’re going to lose this game you’re going to lose this game” :/ > > And if a champions only counter is cc, then the champion is a failure, because cc counters EVERYTHING in this game. > Also qss is a thing and he can dodge any and all cc with his q if he is even slightly good. The counter to Yi isnt only CC. The counter to Yi is being with your team and building defensively. Much like an assassin, Yi cant 1v9 unless hes very far ahead
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8uNceXKp,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T02:46:13.776+0000) > > so does {{champion:114}} > >makes her fair to fight. Good joke.{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sleeping Bat,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8uNceXKp,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-16T14:22:28.493+0000) > > Good joke.{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} I mean. Compared to 2.25 total AD point and cluck nukes on a 0.5s or lower CD fiora is a lot more fair to fight, she actually has (relative) counter play.
: I don't have a problem with Wit's End, I like that it is a usable item now. But paired with Guinsoos + BORK there is no defense against it, especially if Yi ults. This is a commentary on Yi, not the item.
> [{quoted}](name=ApothNinja,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7YEm3HZv,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-04-16T00:51:06.936+0000) > > I don't have a problem with Wit's End, I like that it is a usable item now. But paired with Guinsoos + BORK there is no defense against it, especially if Yi ults. This is a commentary on Yi, not the item. I feel as though this thread has been edited heavily, because i doubt i would base an entire post about wits end unless it was the main point of the OP.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7YEm3HZv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-15T21:33:42.629+0000) > > {{item:3075}} + {{item:3194}} ? > Honestly speaking all wits end does is give life gain on hit when below 50% HP, which isnt inherently broken. Its less than lifesteal gives at level 18 (which can easily be 100+HP per hit). > > If a Yi killed you with wits end, he was going to kill you regardless and youre complaining about something new for the sake of complaining. Thornmail does not counter yi. He will kill you with his true damage and %hp damage long before you get even close to cutting him down. Also. What about every auto being essentially 2 autos isn’t broken af? Because that’s litteraly what this champion does.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7YEm3HZv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-15T22:11:38.615+0000) > > Thornmail does not counter yi. > He will kill you with his true damage and %hp damage long before you get even close to cutting him down. > > Also. What about every auto being essentially 2 autos isn’t broken af? Because that’s litteraly what this champion does. If Yi kills you, he was going to kill you regardless. Much like vayne; if you escape without help vayne couldnt have killed you to start with. Thornmail is for greivous wounds. It is not meant to be a one item counter to an entire champion. Adaptive helm is for the reduced magic damage, it is not meant to be a one item counter to an entire champion. Ideally, you want to CC his E so he cant melt you with true damage... but if youre a squishy who dies very quickly, heres a newflash; you were dead the moment he closed the gap on you.
: Nerf master yi or nerf guinso rage blade!
{{item:3075}} + {{item:3194}} ? Honestly speaking all wits end does is give life gain on hit when below 50% HP, which isnt inherently broken. Its less than lifesteal gives at level 18 (which can easily be 100+HP per hit). If a Yi killed you with wits end, he was going to kill you regardless and youre complaining about something new for the sake of complaining.
: Remove her W synergy with Guinsoo's double hit passive. Probably the bare minimum starting point imo.
> [{quoted}](name=Stróc Dúnmharú,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8uNceXKp,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-15T21:02:24.541+0000) > > Remove her W synergy with Guinsoo's double hit passive. Probably the bare minimum starting point imo. Making her W on ATTACK instead of on hit would indeed be a great place to start. Doesnt really change the fact Auto Q auto wouldnt change, since her Q is an auto attack reset.
: > [{quoted}](name=Morgana Q Misser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8uNceXKp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-15T06:18:51.812+0000) > > If they take 5ms from her passive bonus she'll be balanced /s idk if you mean this as a joke(from the irelia nerf), but it would actually make her much easier to kite and poke. So yeah, actually a decent nerf. Howerver, nerfing her ult duration extension on kills is probably the easiest aspect to nerf.
> [{quoted}](name=IShowerWithUrDad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8uNceXKp,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-15T16:43:56.654+0000) > > idk if you mean this as a joke(from the irelia nerf), but it would actually make her much easier to kite and poke. So yeah, actually a decent nerf. Howerver, nerfing her ult duration extension on kills is probably the easiest aspect to nerf. Vaynes biggest issue isnt her chase. Its her damage output during all stages of the game combined with her near permanent, long lasting invisibility. Vayne could stand to lose her passive. Vayne could stand to lose her true damage. But as long as her Q is in its current state shes going to be a roflstomp powerhouse.
: > [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LuAstOpv,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-14T05:56:20.659+0000) > > I mean it is rather odd to assume that the other person is male or whatever. you don't know them. Not really lol, people aren't that hard to read. Especially people like _this_ guy.
> [{quoted}](name=Ashryver Queen ,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LuAstOpv,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-14T06:01:48.187+0000) > > Not really lol, people aren't that hard to read. Especially people like _this_ guy. No, when your complaints revolve around sexism and homophobia it IS weird for you to assume someones gender.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LuAstOpv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-14T06:01:47.853+0000) > > You... You realize that youre not only EU, one of the most toxic (to itself) servers in the league of legends macro, but on EUNE the single most toxic server in EU? > > > Simply put, how dare you assume that the community at large is vile because of your encounter on one of the worst servers in the world? > Further, why the heck are you trying to call the community sexist and homophobic when this is clearly general toxicity and not really targeted? Bullies use all ammo available, not just one. That... that's a really stupid comment with no actual point. Like, so much so I don't even know where to begin with addressing this mess so I just won't lol
> [{quoted}](name=Ashryver Queen ,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LuAstOpv,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-04-14T06:09:39.198+0000) > > That... that's a really stupid comment with no actual point. Like, so much so I don't even know where to begin with addressing this mess so I just won't lol "no point"? The point i made is that youre attributing guilt to the entire community for an encounter in a extremely bad server, and should be ashamed of yourself for trying to stir up drama. What you said is no different than going to, say, downtown newyork and getting mugged... then claiming the US is awful because of the high crime rate. You say those kinds of things to deliberately create drama. Not because you have an actual point that needs making. ______________________________________ Also... This thread belongs in player behavior, not gameplay.
: Shyvana Needs A Rework
tbh Shyv is a lot more fun and skillfull as an AP champion. She needs a new passive, she needs an AP ratio on her W again, and thats about it. AD bruiser shyv is just as powerful as AP burst shyv, just in different situations.
: This game's community is still extremely homophobic and sexist.
You... You realize that youre not only EU, one of the most toxic (to itself) servers in the league of legends macro, but on EUNE the single most toxic server in EU? Simply put, how dare you assume that the community at large is vile because of your encounter on one of the worst servers in the world? Further, why the heck are you trying to call the community sexist and homophobic when this is clearly general toxicity and not really targeted? Bullies use all ammo available, not just one.
: You laugh, but it'll happen one day. I'm fairly sure they're brainstorming how to make this happen without infuriating anyone as we speak.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilJsrbg4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-13T23:44:15.009+0000) > > You laugh, but it'll happen one day. I'm fairly sure they're brainstorming how to make this happen without infuriating anyone as we speak. Riots been dictating the meta for years, this is just the next step of authoritarianism. And to be honest, if riot took a heavy handed approach instead of their wishy washy half assed approach, the game would be better for it.
Rioter Comments
atorelle (NA)
: Nerf Sona's Base Damage
Err... Are you complaining about sonas Q, passive, Auto with aery? Sona has one basic ability that does damage, low base AD, and below average base/scaling on her passive. Just stay out of her auto range and stop letting her poke you?
: ah yes. 2.25 scaling on an RNG basis unless you've spent almost 12k gold getting an Infinity Edge and 3 other Zeal crit items. Because that compares to literally getting a free kill in lane every time your dumbass ultimate is off cooldown. Nothing like forcing AP Champions into delaying their builds by 1300 Gold to buy an item that builds into nothing that gives AP so it's just a dead item when the active is on CD.
> [{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEKIXrBw,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T06:44:40.348+0000) > > ah yes. 2.25 scaling on an RNG basis unless you've spent almost 12k gold getting an Infinity Edge and 3 other Zeal crit items. Because that compares to literally getting a free kill in lane every time your dumbass ultimate is off cooldown. Nothing like forcing AP Champions into delaying their builds by 1300 Gold to buy an item that builds into nothing that gives AP so it's just a dead item when the active is on CD. If you think malzahar can legitimately 100-0 unless very fed ive got some bad news bud. Also, banshes veil hurts malzahars damage output a TON unless hes got some penetration. Maybe you should try counter building the squishy mid-range immobile mage with 705+2.25AP guranteed damage if no one CC's him out of his ult or just kills him while hes self CC'd?
: Your champion literally "sucks the fun" out of any player that has to play against that braindead, point and click ranged suppression bullshit ultimate. Absolute cancer champ should remain 25 feet under the dirt. Make his ultimate a skill shot like Leblanc E where the suppression will take place after "X" duration of being attached to a champion. Then we can talk buffing his kit. His R is one of the most stupid abilities in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEKIXrBw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-12T06:05:25.391+0000) > > Your champion literally "sucks the fun" out of any player that has to play against that braindead, point and click ranged suppression bullshit ultimate. Absolute cancer champ should remain 25 feet under the dirt. Make his ultimate a skill shot like Leblanc E where the suppression will take place after "X" duration of being attached to a champion. Then we can talk buffing his kit. His R is one of the most stupid abilities in the game. /) AUTO ATTACKS (\ STop the abuse! 2.25 total AD scaling point and click nukes with less than 1 second cooldown need to go!
: > At this point the best buff they can do for him is simply revert him to how he was before the class update. Well no the best buff would be to change him again and ideally avoid both what makes his current kit a problem and what made his older kit a problem. And that, frankly, is the R. Without his R being point-and-click the rest of his kit can be evolved into something useful. The problem of course is that the R is the main reason most people play Malzahar.
> [{quoted}](name=SociopathFriend,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEKIXrBw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-12T05:57:27.488+0000) > > Well no the best buff would be to change him again and ideally avoid both what makes his current kit a problem and what made his older kit a problem. > > And that, frankly, is the R. Without his R being point-and-click the rest of his kit can be evolved into something useful. > > The problem of course is that the R is the main reason most people play Malzahar. That his old kit was 'toxic' is a myth perpetuated by people who never understood malzahar or his weaknesses. His old kit was one of the most balanced in the game and he held a very small niche of being an _anti-assassin_. His playstyle was ambush predator; when someone went all in on him, using their mobility to close the gap, he assassinated THEM instead of the other way around. Most people who complained about malzahar at the time were (is it shocking?) Assassins, Vaynes, Lucians, Rivens, and Fioras. Champions with very strong all-ins who were easily shut down by malzahars single-target (Malzahar was also easily shut down due to his immobility versus their burst; tit for tat). The only champion who was arguably more balanced was _swain_ at the time who had received only one nerf (a rework to his passive that wasnt really a nerf). Fact of the matter is, the problems present in old malzahar are even worse in the current iteration of him and in his current state he _FEELS_ very weak because his damage was slashed by over 400+1.2AP and his waveclear (which is the worst of all battle mages and most regular mages) is very bad without his one-shot-by-design voidlings. What NEEDS to happen is the following; 1) Malzahars passive needs to be reworked from a spell _shield_ to a spell _sword_. 2) Malzahars voidlings need to be _buffed_ to their pre-rework state, including being summoned automaticaly once stacks have been reached. 3) An active component can be added to malzahars voidlings to _frenzy_ them. 4) Malzahars E needs to be buffed to 320+0.8AP over its duration. Its a DoT, it is inherently MUCH weaker than burst. 5) Malzahar needs 550 attack range and 345 movement speed. He is not a support and his is immobile, he should never had had his base stats touched in the first place. _____________________________________________________ Theres also the very real fact that malzahar is held to a disturbing double standard when it comes to interaction and counterplay. Zed, Talon, Ahri, Leblanc, Fizz ALL have 0 interaction kits who either farm safely until they can all in or who have the sheer mobility to decide when a trade happens. They all also farm MUCH better than malzahar, shove MUCH better than malzahar, and have _MUCH LESS_ counterplay than malzahar does. Malzahar is immobile. If hes shoving mindlessly you ask for jungle support and pop his long CD passive. Malzahar has short ranges. Punish him when he tries to do stuff. Malzahars voidlings die in one auto and have at most 350 or so HP. Malzahars Q has a very long wind up AND animation. Punish it, and dodge it. If his E is on YOU hooray, he just lost 120 mana for a 240+0.6AP ability that cant even clear casters in the five seconds it takes any assassin and most mages to clear the entire wave! Zed? His Q range is over 1000 and has a base damage of 360+1.2 bAD, potentially 500 plus something like 1.6 bAD if his shadow shurikens hit you too. Ahri? 120+0.35AP magic +120+0.35AP _true damage_. It goes from safely behind her melee behind your casters, and its easy as heck to land with a low cooldown. Leblanc? She Ws at you. Its instant. You cant avoid it without burning mobility. Fizz? Point and click, applies on hit effects and he just tricksters away with invulnerability. **_But its okay for THEM to have low interaction kits because theyre mobile, amiritefellas?_**
: > A tank even is a tank behind. > A tank should not be a tank if behind. I think you may have misinterpreted the wording. They aren’t saying a tank is still a tank if behind. This is actually true, as it currently feels terrible if you can’t get your defensive items and so you can’t properly do your job (I’ve been flamed on Amumu because I got set behind in jungle and couldn’t get my items, and my ally said “And here I was told a tank can still do their job even if set behind). The first line is saying that if a tank is going even, then they’ll be considered behind, much like the casters say with Jayce if be goes even in lane when you pick him to bully. Essentially, as it is, a tank needs to get ahead early in order to properly tank.
> [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-04-11T20:03:33.136+0000) > > I think you may have misinterpreted the wording. They aren’t saying a tank is still a tank if behind. This is actually true, as it currently feels terrible if you can’t get your defensive items and so you can’t properly do your job (I’ve been flamed on Amumu because I got set behind in jungle and couldn’t get my items, and my ally said “And here I was told a tank can still do their job even if set behind). > > The first line is saying that if a tank is going even, then they’ll be considered behind, much like the casters say with Jayce if be goes even in lane when you pick him to bully. Essentially, as it is, a tank needs to get ahead early in order to properly tank. Indeed. Because offense outscales defense so much, a tank even is behind because they arent effective unless theyre _at least_ an item ahead. Once team fighting starts if anyone is ahead of that tank, they get blown up as well. {{item:3075}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3065}} beats {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3047}} and {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3006}} But loses to {{item:3053}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3047}} and {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3006}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T04:52:21.835+0000) > > The difference is that defensive creep slows down fights and allows for tactics over than suicidal 5v5 death ball crash dives in mid lane. > > Offensive creep means Ezreal WEQ gunblades over a wall at you to proc Muramana four times in 0.25 seconds and you die instantly. > > Same for Rengar's leap out of stealth, or Zed/Talon/Fizz ruining your day with instant burst. This is false. Defensive creep slows down fights, yes, but the end result is that tactics go out the window. There is no punishment, no "strategy", and no actual thought put into these fights. Tank metas are slow, brainless matches of attrition where the winner ends up being who can outstat who. This myth that "Tank meta fights are big brain!" needs to be dispelled because they are poison to strategy, not a buffer to it. Comparatively, while you can argue it, damage metas actually require MORE strategic play. Because the punishment threshold is so high, it means there is less room to make mistakes. Every move, cooldown and tool must be used sparringly. It's also why damage metas upset lower-tier players the most while conversely they love tank metas the most: Punishment is highest in a damage meta, meaning their blatant and frequent mistakes are punished. Punishment is lowest in tank metas, where a player can ~~dive 1v5 and get out with 1/2 HP~~ get little-to-no punishment for bad plays that are frequently made. Both can be a problem but we need to get rid of this myth that tank metas are high strategy. They're just problematic for different reasons: One can be too punishing while the other is not punishing enough.
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T04:59:05.415+0000) > > This is false. > > Defensive creep slows down fights, yes, but the end result is that tactics go out the window. There is no punishment, no "strategy", and no actual thought put into these fights. Tank metas are slow, brainless matches of attrition where the winner ends up being who can outstat who. This myth that "Tank meta fights are big brain!" needs to be dispelled because they are poison to strategy, not a buffer to it. I hope you realize that this isnt true and hasnt been true for years. Tanks get %HP damage for a reason nowadays - your chicken little argument is... Galling, to say the least. > Comparatively, while you can argue it, damage metas actually require MORE strategic play. Because the punishment threshold is so high, it means there is less room to make mistakes. No. Have you not been watching professional play?! Damage metas are STAGNANT metas because if you make one misplay you tend to lose the game. There is a REASON ultra safe laners are the norm in pro play lately. Why do you think Ezreal, Vayne, and Lucian are popular? Its because they are incredibly safe champions who CAN misplay and still come out alive. > Both can be a problem but we need to get rid of this myth that tank metas are high strategy. They're just problematic for different reasons: One can be too punishing while the other is not punishing enough. You need to drop your bias against defense first and realize that slower metas have more room for error, more room for thought, and in the current runes and itemization enviornment _will never devolve into your chicken little doomsday wet noodle fight._
: The creep nobody talks about: Defensive Creep.
So i had a piece by piece response all typed up... it got eaten, but i realized something. You hate tanks and... ... You hate protection. You also equate bruisers TO tanks despite them not being defensive champions in the slightest. Your item complaints in shields - **those are all fighter or bruiser items**. Expensive. Outside an actual tanks effective reach. Your support item complaints - there are 0 items with item CDR. I dont know where you pulled that out of... but you should put it away. ENCHANTER support itemization is some of the best sustain support items in the game, and theyre cheap by need; supports dont make a lot of gold. TANK support itemization though? Complete. Garbage. Hugely ineffective considering their budget and requires a laners income to make work properly... Knights vow is barely an item, and you dont get it for the carry damage reduction. You get it for the carry sustain. Locket of the iron solari is only ever gotten by utility supports like thresh and rakan nowadays. Ill finish off with your champion complaints here... Remember this because it is VERY true and you seem to have forgotten it: _A tank even is a tank behind_. Braum: Hes what a tank should be, a champion who protects allies via interception. He is not better than yasuo as you imply, and while he does shine in protect the marksman comps... In this meta where _damage is cheaper than defense_ a support tank is a backline tank forced to protect the carry. Tahm: You seem to think tahm kench is a walking zhonyas? Yes he can protect people, thats WHAT A TANK DOES. do you just want to want to right click everyone to death all the time?! Rakan: Hes not a defensive champion. Hes an enchanter. His job is to heal, shield, and CC. Soraka, Sona, Karma, and Lulu ALL do the same thing _BETTER_. ____________________________________________________________________ It seems as though youre in the camp of "i should be able to deal all the damage" and "this game needs less defenses so i can do more damage". You, sir, are in the wrong camp. Period. Damage in this game needs to be reduced so that the meta isnt stagnant. Marksmen in this game need to be reworked as a whole so that _the meta doesnt mean "who deals with marksman the best_". Assassins in the game need to be reworked so that theyre not hyper mobile. AD bruiser itemization needs to be toned WAY down, AP bruiser itemization needs some buffs on the AP front. AP itemization in general needs some flat AP buffs.
: That'd just make people flame others even more. "quit so we can get demge boos ur bad kid gitgod" etc. There's a reason why systems like this aren't used, they become a mechanic that can be used to actually turn a game in your favor. With the examples you provided, you'd be replacing a feeder with a buff for your entire team. Like I said above, all that will accomplish is making anyone playing an already high damage champ flame EVERYONE who does slightly bad. On the flip side, it'd encourage players who do something wrong, or die a few times just rage quit since 1. your team knows that if you're not there, they get a buff and you stop feeding 2. they'd be able to justify to themselves and others that leaving was a "tactical" choice since being there may have actually been worse for your team. I've had games I've played after presumably suffering brain damage as I go 0/10/X in which if I had the option to just feel like I wasn't screwing over my team anymore, I'd just leave since clearly ANY buff would be better than me dying to something stupid for the 11th time. With all that said, it is not a bad idea to mitigate the loss of a teammate, however it should only lessen it to the extent of not providing something of greater value than the lost teammate. In other games this can include just replacing the teammate with a bot or lowering the loss penalty. I don't think these would work since the league community is full of _kind and generous people who would try and talk you down from leaving the game as your enjoyment of the game is something that matters more to them than a buff that might turn some champions into over powered 100-0 machines. _
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessDusk0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sK8yqToV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T00:48:05.126+0000) > > That'd just make people flame others even more. "quit so we can get demge boos ur bad kid gitgod" etc. There's a reason why systems like this aren't used, they become a mechanic that can be used to actually turn a game in your favor. > Did you know DotA 2 has a leaver buster system that works? Did you know DotA 2 has "safe to leave" when someone disconnects - or never connects? Did you know DotA 2 has a prisoners island Low Priority Queue, so people who get hit with leaver buster, chat, and account penalties are matched with each other while good boyos and lassies are matched with each other?
: I think a better arguement instead if looking at it being AP verse AD is more so how the playstyle shifts. So traditionally Shyvana is meant to be a melee fighter that is all up in your face while her current successful playstyle is chunk the enemy with one ability from high range. Now I agree that thematically Shyvana should be an AP Fighter, but since Riot has still neglected to give AP Fighters proper itemization she is forced to build AD Fighter to fit her designed playstyle. So I hope that Riot is actually prepared to make AP Fighter items like they recently said they would look into with the item shop clean up, and hopefully Shyvana recieves her VGU and has her mathematics and gameplay line up better.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsFkXF15,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-04-09T21:48:48.849+0000) > > I think a better arguement instead if looking at it being AP verse AD is more so how the playstyle shifts. So traditionally Shyvana is meant to be a melee fighter that is all up in your face while her current successful playstyle is chunk the enemy with one ability from high range. > > Now I agree that thematically Shyvana should be an AP Fighter, but since Riot has still neglected to give AP Fighters proper itemization she is forced to build AD Fighter to fit her designed playstyle. > > So I hope that Riot is actually prepared to make AP Fighter items like they recently said they would look into with the item shop clean up, and hopefully Shyvana recieves her VGU and has her mathematics and gameplay line up better. Shyvana actually functions very well with an AP fighter build already. {{item:3115}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3020}} + {{item:3135}} or {{item:3100}} or {{item:3151}} We need more AP+HP items that are suited less for battlemages and more for fighters though. Also Mana conversion. I would LOVE to get RoA.
: Fix Shyvana
@thread What exactly is _wrong_ with shyvana's most successful build being AP? Honestly speaking when shyvana builds "normally" shes _very_ stat check-ee and feast or famine. When shes meta-strong shes also extremely overbearing and not fun to play against. Her W needs an AP ratio again and she would be a really fun AP champion beyond her current "i try my best to oneshot squishies" AP playstyle. If Shyvana's Q didnt scale only with AD and if her W didnt scale only with AD, no one would even make the argument that shes meant to BE and AD champion.
: The problem is it heals more than twice what Life steal builds does. A 40% reduction in the heal would essentially put it on par with a life stealer who was NOT grievous wounded.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4ZWZyz7u,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T00:20:46.510+0000) > > The problem is it heals more than twice what Life steal builds does. A 40% reduction in the heal would essentially put it on par with a life stealer who was NOT grievous wounded. Its only while below 50% health and even then its only 80HP on hit at level 18 - You get that much with normal lifesteal anyway.
: Master yi with wits end is not fair.
Its HP on hit, theres nothing inherently _wrong_ with HP on hit... Greivous wounds would help counter it.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T05:51:49.583+0000) > > High AD scaling on most of his abilities makes him a _tanky_ champion. > Tanks itemization focuses on HP+resistances. > Bruisers and juggernauts have a focus on AD+HP itemization (which is often better than tank itemization in terms of raw HP and gold effectiveness). Sion, being a proto-juggernaut, leans towards that AD+HP itemization in his basic kit. > > Because anyone with CC can build 'tank' and still be effective. 'true tank' refers to champions with HP and resistance scaling as their main form of scaling. Sion doesn't need any AD in his build to do his job. IMO a tank is defined by their ability to initiate fights, peel and mitigate damage, and there are few champions in this game that can brute force fights the way Sion can.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=0000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T15:55:28.171+0000) > > Sion doesn't need any AD in his build to do his job. IMO a tank is defined by their ability to initiate fights, peel and mitigate damage, and there are few champions in this game that can brute force fights the way Sion can. Youd be wrong. In this iteration of riot dudebro arena "tanks" are weak scaling champions with reliable CC, low mobility, and average base stats. Bruisers are strong scaling champions with hard CC, mobility, sustain, and good base stats. Juggernauts are similar without mobility; The reason why Sion is a proto juggernaut like Mundo, Volibear, and Trundle is because they arent traditionally mobile. They have MS boosts yes, but not dashes or flashes like renekton does. Because sion HAS strong AD scaling, he is in the bruiser vein of the fighter family instead of the tank vein. Similar to Gnar, who is a bruiser but is almost always played like a tank due to his high base stats and high scaling. Meanwhile Braum, Leona, Nautilus, Thresh, Rammus, Orrn, and malphite have HP or resistance scaling +AP, which makes them 'true tanks' when coupled with their tank explicit traits; Low mobility, reliable CC, average base stats, poor scaling. If all the tanks listed above had their AP ratios exchanged for AD ratios, they would _ALL_ be capable users of bruiser itemization.
darkdill (NA)
: 0.5 seconds would be too short; I'd personally go with something like 1.5 seconds since this would be an ultimate.
> [{quoted}](name=Yousosmart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mzozwiE4,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:55:57.366+0000) > > 0.5 seconds would be too short; I'd personally go with something like 1.5 seconds since this would be an ultimate. The fact its infinitely chaining already makes it a very powerful ultimate. But the idea behind it being 0.5s is that it would stop flow and sow confusion rather than being very strong CC, otherwise i really doubt _a chaining lulu W_ would ever come to fruition.
: Can we talk about Support itemization ?
@thread The issue with support items is that they _HAVE_ to be weak in order to be purchased effectively by supports and supports are not allowed to have a proper income. Honestly speaking, supports NEED a real income equal to that of other laners... or at least, they need a second supplementary income. Why not reintroduce bandit to the rift? {{item:3301}} {{item:3302}} {{item:3303}}; Bandit: While an ally is nearby (1500 rage), when an enemy minion is killed by an ally gain 5 gold. This way a supports gold income is dramatically increased and they can actually _afford_ to purchase real items. Lackluster support items like knights vow and locket could also be buffed with this. Adding a {{item:1011}} to their recipes would be _AMAZING_.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-07T20:36:48.912+0000) > > To be fair, cho'gath is a 'specialist' type champion, so hes a hodgepodge leaning in the bruiser/juggernaut direction. > Much like sion, cho'gath is not a true tank. I'm aware Cho isn't, but how is Sion not a true tank?
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-08T00:38:55.569+0000) > > I'm aware Cho isn't, but how is Sion not a true tank? High AD scaling on most of his abilities makes him a _tanky_ champion. Tanks itemization focuses on HP+resistances. Bruisers and juggernauts have a focus on AD+HP itemization (which is often better than tank itemization in terms of raw HP and gold effectiveness). Sion, being a proto-juggernaut, leans towards that AD+HP itemization in his basic kit. Because anyone with CC can build 'tank' and still be effective. 'true tank' refers to champions with HP and resistance scaling as their main form of scaling.
: At least ADCs have a reason to complain. When was that last time mages were truly bad? Like Season 4’s assassin meta (well before Boards existed)
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mg00RHEE,comment-id=000800010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-07T22:56:16.780+0000) > > At least ADCs have a reason to complain. > > When was that last time mages were truly bad? Like Season 4’s assassin meta (well before Boards existed) Did you know: Marksmen have never actually been 'in a bad spot' balance wise since the introduction of crit. The previous iteration of crit itemization had a bad game feel _not because crit itemization was actually bad_ but because marksman players **used an item that was never intended to be used the way it was** as a crutch to _retain their previous playstyle of first crit wins_ instead of **adapting to the game**.
darkdill (NA)
: How broken would Medivh's Poly Bomb be in League?
Two seconds would be way to long. 0.5s or even 0.25s would be much better for leagues pace, mostly because the ability would be meant to be a _distraction_ and not an actual CC. But you raise another question - would infinitely chaining projectiles be _balanced_ in league of legends? Personally, i want Frost Lich translated into league because his ultimate - and his kit - is actually quite fun, but his ultimate (at least what makes it fun) is the infinite chaining frost ball...
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Yo, what are you even talking about? First off, it doesn't outscale at all. You would need an Last Whisper to actual do decent damage. Your ADC with those two items versus a tank with those two (wich lmao are so bad when combined because you're stacking 2 unique passives - wich is a extremly bad example) your ADC would lose. I don't know what you're trying to argue here, because what I said isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You all act as if Tanks should be caught up by the enemy team and last at least 5 seconds to run away to their team. If they're caught off they need to be punished, that's why the design nowdays is that damage items outscale defensive items at an certain point.
> [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jTiHc0qb,comment-id=000b000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-07T11:30:17.885+0000) > > Yo, what are you even talking about? First off, it doesn't outscale at all. You would need an Last Whisper to actual do decent damage. Your ADC with those two items versus a tank with those two (wich lmao are so bad when combined because you're stacking 2 unique passives - wich is a extremly bad example) your ADC would lose. I don't know what you're trying to argue here, because what I said isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You all act as if Tanks should be caught up by the enemy team and last at least 5 seconds to run away to their team. If they're caught off they need to be punished, that's why the design nowdays is that damage items outscale defensive items at an certain point. Really, what are you smoking? Do you seriously think that defense outscales offense, and do you _actually_ think that, with the current state of runes, resistances are not outscaled from early on?! Unless a champion building tanky has some form of sustain (including shields) or extra scaling in their kit, they simply get outscaled by _any_ AD champion with the same gold investment. "A tank even is a tank behind" is not a meme. Its a fact of the game in its current state.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-07T17:51:47.144+0000) > > I mean, you could just replace the ratios with health ratios. Isn't building health the one thing Tanks have over everyone? Im a former tank main, and honestly this idea for some tanks could help kill some unhealthy and unethical playstyles (AP Cho just rotation killing someone, AP malph ulting someone and destroying them (Its nasty). You get the point. OP's idea is right, but wrong on what should replace those scalings.) Tanks and juggernauts have the best health scaling, yes. Also, I've seen far more people complain about tank cho killing people over his AP version, ever since they added a health ratio to his ult. AP Malph is stupid to play against early, but he falls off hard. I just played against an AP Malph a couple games ago. He's only good for killing squishies and cheesing tankier opponents early on before they can get MR. After he blows his cooldowns he's an easy kill. Tank Malph lives slightly longer, but does a lot less damage. The bigger problem is how much damage outscales defense. These champions wouldn't be stacking damage if defensive scaling was actually good. Removing their AP/AD would just make them even harder to play right now. Rammus gets damage for building armor and even he gets shredded past a certain point.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLaEf0LA,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-07T18:27:59.652+0000) > > Tanks and juggernauts have the best health scaling, yes. Also, I've seen far more people complain about tank cho killing people over his AP version, ever since they added a health ratio to his ult. > To be fair, cho'gath is a 'specialist' type champion, so hes a hodgepodge leaning in the bruiser/juggernaut direction. Much like sion, cho'gath is not a true tank.
Eedat (NA)
: She's performing too well in soloQ as well. It's coming
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dIEB0L4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-06T21:29:28.956+0000) > > She's performing too well in soloQ as well. It's coming Sona rework please? Passive: Sona's cannot basic attack while playing a song. Sonas auras deal her AD+0.25AP as bonus magical damage over time to enemies within range. This damage does not apply spell effects. Q: Sona plays a song of attack, increasing nearby allies damage and shooting projectiles at up to two enemies in range every 5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds. W: Sona plays a song of triumph, healing nearby allies over time and giving up to two allies a shield every 5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds. E: Sona plays a song of pursuit, increasing nearby allies movement speed and giving up to two allies 10/15/20/25/30 movement speed on hit every 5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds.. R: Sona plays all three songs at once to create a song of victory, stunning enemies in front of her and granting allies the effects of all three songs. Also passively increases sonas aura radius by 100 per rank and reduces the delay on sonas projectiles by 1/1.5/2 seconds
Crocele (NA)
: i dont think so but sneaky is playing her right now
> [{quoted}](name=Crocele,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6dIEB0L4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-06T21:13:42.140+0000) > > i dont think so but sneaky is playing her right now Sneaky is C9s _marksman_. Why would he be playing sona ADC?
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Except that those items that cost 2600G don't bring any AD whatsoever to the table. You'll need at least IE that costs over 3000G to actually make a decent use of those other items, and on top of that you have also to buy a Last Whisper if you want to inflict real damage, wich doesn't happen before you get at least IE + double zeal items or IE + ER + Zeal item.
> [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jTiHc0qb,comment-id=000b0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-06T12:11:22.209+0000) > > Except that those items that cost 2600G don't bring any AD whatsoever to the table. You'll need at least IE that costs over 3000G to actually make a decent use of those other items, and on top of that you have also to buy a Last Whisper if you want to inflict real damage, wich doesn't happen before you get at least IE + double zeal items or IE + ER + Zeal item. What are you talking about? {{item:3031}} (3400g) + {{item:3087}} (2600g) is 6000 and outscales {{item:3075}} + {{item:3143}} hard, unless the tank champion building them has a source of shields or signifigant bonus HP. And thats not even taking into account runes like press the attack and conquoror, both of which melt tanks like a hot knife through warm butter.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:42:54.122+0000) > > _anyone_ who 'fell off' hasnt fallen off since lethality came into play. "falling off" is a myth perpetuated by word of mouth. It used to exist in seasons 4-6, but then riot added shit like {{item:3812}} {{item:3161}} as well as infernal drake / elder drake. We also have {{item:3135}} giving 40% pen and {{item:3089}} giving +40% ap, meaning {{champion:7}} can end up doing 60% of a tanks hp with 1 combo.
> [{quoted}](name=Dasdi96,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:52:35.684+0000) > > It used to exist in seasons 4-6, but then riot added shit like {{item:3812}} {{item:3161}} as well as infernal drake / elder drake. > We also have {{item:3135}} giving 40% pen and {{item:3089}} giving +40% ap, meaning {{champion:7}} can end up doing 60% of a tanks hp with 1 combo. Debatable. AP vs tanks is actually very balanced, the problem arises when you consider bruisers (HP+AD) as tanks despite them simply being 'tanky'. Also, fall off has stopped not because of new items which have been introduced, but because of more sources of additional damage and scaling. The last version of masteries was _very_ strong, and runes reforged over time has gotten to a point where a good page is over 3000g worth of free stats.
Done25 (NA)
: Don't bother with Tahm. He's worthless garbage with a 45% win rate.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRXFrpAd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:57:43.033+0000) > > Don't bother with Tahm. He's worthless garbage with a 45% win rate. DOnt be a meta sheep. A good Tahm is as effective as any tank support, with a niche of protect the carry.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:42:54.122+0000) > > _anyone_ who 'fell off' hasnt fallen off since lethality came into play. "falling off" is a myth perpetuated by word of mouth. Except lethality falls off in value, it becomes less effective as enemies stack armor.
> [{quoted}](name=PlsBuffMyMain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:55:24.884+0000) > > Except lethality falls off in value, it becomes less effective as enemies stack armor. Who told you that? Lethality becomes more effective the higher level you are. 21 armor penetration at level 18 with 18 lethality is nothing to scoff at - with just a ghost blade you basically nullify a fourth of a squishies base armor. Does building armor counter lethality? Yes. That doesnt mean it becomes less effective though...
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:42:54.122+0000) > > _anyone_ who 'fell off' hasnt fallen off since lethality came into play. "falling off" is a myth perpetuated by word of mouth. Yeah, falling off only ever existed when late game hypercarries were meta, just because they're better late. Champions don't fall off, especially not if they get their lead easily in the first place.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZHX3THE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:49:17.249+0000) > > Yeah, falling off only ever existed when late game hypercarries were meta, just because they're better late. Champions don't fall off, especially not if they get their lead easily in the first place. Not quite? Falling off existed when AD and armor penetration were less and masteries didnt give a ton of free damage. Pantheon for example fell off hard way back when... But now? He builds 300AD, 40 OoC movement speed, 40% CDR, and gets over 300 bonus damage from masteries.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Does renekton even fall off anymore?
_anyone_ who 'fell off' hasnt fallen off since lethality came into play. "falling off" is a myth perpetuated by word of mouth.
: so taric just shouldnt even be touched then?
> [{quoted}](name=iniquitý,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRXFrpAd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-06T04:15:33.044+0000) > > so taric just shouldnt even be touched then? Taric is pretty good in specific team comps. Hes an option, but in league of legends youre not looking for niches... Youre looking for champions who are generally good.
: Tank supports
Honestly speaking, between thresh and braum you have a stable pool thats capable of doing a lot. Braum, Leona, and Thresh is the holy trinity of tank supports though. They are rarely truly out of meta and with the exception of Braum+Jhin all marksmen work well with all three of them. I would suggest, rather than leona, picking up Nautilus ({{champion:111}}) though. Hes got a MUCH better team fight, is MUCH tankier due to his W, and has much higher early game damage because he was originally meant to be mid/top.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Frostfel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jTiHc0qb,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T13:57:16.102+0000) > > Divers are part of bruisers and many of those items work well with Juggernauts. What makes Juggernauts feel bad is their kits not the items because we are in a mobility 1-shot meta. Juggernauts will naturally do poorly since they can't build tanky because they will still be 1-shot and have no natural mobility to deal with the champions who do. It doesn't change that the items with the exception of Frozen Mallet (which is okay) are amazing for AD Bruisers. > > Spirit Visage was and still is technically a tank item, but well with tanks being in a bad spot......yeah. > > Righteous Glory is not really a bruiser item, just a tanky get movement burst item. Spirit Visage is not a tank item. It directly synergizes with juggernaut kits, as all of them have some form of innate sustain. Adaptive Helm IS a tank item and it's what they should build, not SV, if they want mitigate magic damage. Righteous Glory is probably one of the best items a juggernaut can build right now aside from Spirit Visage and Sterak's. It has literally everything they want (health, CDR, sustain, an active for actually catching targets). Look who is building the item right now. Go ahead, go check. This is a juggernaut item, regardless of Riot's intentions when it was introduced.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jTiHc0qb,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T14:21:40.397+0000) > > Spirit Visage is not a tank item. It directly synergizes with juggernaut kits, as all of them have some form of innate sustain. Adaptive Helm IS a tank item and it's what they should build, not SV, if they want mitigate magic damage. > > Righteous Glory is probably one of the best items a juggernaut can build right now aside from Spirit Visage and Sterak's. It has literally everything they want (health, CDR, sustain, an active for actually catching targets). Look who is building the item right now. Go ahead, go check. This is a juggernaut item, regardless of Riot's intentions when it was introduced. Protip: Fighters get AD+resistance items. Bruisers get HP+AD items. Tanks get HP+resistance items. HP and mana items exist to support all melee champions/synergistic champions rather than a specific class. You cant just claim an item is specifically for a class of champions because they use it - heres a newsflash you might not be aware of... Melee champions, especially AD scaling bruisers, dip into all three kinds of items as needed.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Should they? By the time one AD Carry gets a big item, a Tank can have one and a half item, perhaps even two. You're forgetting that tanks items are cheaper and stronger early game. Also, getting outdamaged because the other guy is tankier is such a bad design. Tankks got tankiness and CC, they do not need damage on top of it. If the problem is waveclear, just make more items like Sunfire cape that deals increased damage to minions, but straight up buffing tanks is a bad idea. Did you forget the meta where you would build {{item:3025}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} literally in any champion (even assassins!) and run everybody down because they couldn't outdamage you? We do not want that meta back for sure.
> [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jTiHc0qb,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-04-04T08:30:21.831+0000) > > Should they? By the time one AD Carry gets a big item, a Tank can have one and a half item, perhaps even two. You're forgetting that tanks items are cheaper and stronger early game. > Also, getting outdamaged because the other guy is tankier is such a bad design. Tankks got tankiness and CC, they do not need damage on top of it. If the problem is waveclear, just make more items like Sunfire cape that deals increased damage to minions, but straight up buffing tanks is a bad idea. > Did you forget the meta where you would build {{item:3025}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} literally in any champion (even assassins!) and run everybody down because they couldn't outdamage you? We do not want that meta back for sure. Except for the fact that every marksman item except IE and Essence reaver _Cost 2600g_ and _outscale tanks who dont have built in sources of defense such as shields or infinite bonus HP_ in 6000g. The average tank item is 2900g with over 900 in combine costs for most of them.
: Other champions having the same problem is not an argument. "Everything else is broken so it's ok for this to be broken."' What kind of logic is that?
> [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RQM11jti,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T01:02:00.067+0000) > > Other champions having the same problem is not an argument. "Everything else is broken so it's ok for this to be broken."' > What kind of logic is that? Your bias is showing. I dont think morganas Q has a bad hit box compared to the visuals right now, considering that its as easy to miss as a braum Q. Are you salty because you think you walked out of it a couple of times, or because an edge clipped you? Are you just salty because you want to moan?
: Mundo literally has nothing he can do against Yi.
> [{quoted}](name=SpecterVonBaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4TqurmzB,comment-id=001300010000,timestamp=2019-04-05T00:52:15.123+0000) > > Mundo literally has nothing he can do against Yi. {{item:3075}} R+auto+E+hydra proc.
Moody P (NA)
: Win rate is not the only* metric. People who think every champ should hover 50% every elo and that's balanced are stupid The simple truth is some champions just won't be accessible mechanically or otherwise to average players who don't dedicate to them and this they will have low win rates. That is not imbalanced. That is a skill floor being a skill floor.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wnuvVVsL,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T00:37:44.531+0000) > > Win rate is not the only* metric. People who think every champ should hover 50% every elo and that's balanced are stupid > > The simple truth is some champions just won't be accessible mechanically or otherwise to average players who don't dedicate to them and this they will have low win rates. That is not imbalanced. That is a skill floor being a skill floor. Very much agree. Most of the powerful champions in the game are simple champions with low skill floors who succeed for doing very simple things - Riven and Vayne for example are _extremely_ effective doing their basic functions with little specific skill involved. Meanwhile champion a champion like aurelion sol can suffer in low ELO but have very high power in high ELO because his skill floor is high and his skill ceiling is high as well. Come to think of it, there arent really many "high skill floor high skill cap" champions left in the game. Most champions are either easy to use and easy to pick up with nuances or theyre rarely played because theyre difficult to use and difficult to pick up without a better payout. Like why choose vayne over kai'sa? Or Aatrox over Riven? Vayne and riven are simply far easier to use and master than their analogues while having much better stats and earlier power spikes.
Show more

Paroe

Level 70 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion