: Azir needed to get gutted for being monster in proplay but sucking in low Elo
> [{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iu7VMGN7,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-26T19:40:54.203+0000) > > Why this doesn't work other way around? Why is {{champion:23}} and likes allowed? Because no one gives a shit what goes on in low elo, nor should they.
Ralanr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAvx3KPd,comment-id=000200010000000000010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-26T17:04:43.056+0000) > > Yes. Sivir provides a team-wide speed boost and good wave clear, Jhin provides long range follow up cc and a high range slowing ult, MF provides high aoe damage, Corki provides magic damage for an AD heavy team, Ashe provides global instant-kills, Ezreal provides safe poke from high range, Kog Maw provides high late game ~~d~~bps,... And again, you will always see at least one of them in a game because they all provide consistent ranged dps. Despite how diverse the class is, it doesn't feel diverse because it has no one else to actually compete with for viability beyond themselves. Mid is a constant struggle between mages and assassins. Top is tanks, bruisers, and even some assassins or mages competing for viability. Jungle is basically everyone but mages and most ADCs, and supports have to swap between tank, mage, or regular supports. Every other role is competing with different classes for viability. ADCs do not. That's why they as a **whole** can never be trash because they are no competition to make them trash by design. TLDR: ADC is communism to the capitalism of every other role.
> [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAvx3KPd,comment-id=00020001000000000001000100000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-06-26T17:32:24.326+0000) > > Thats what my first post was about, its unique in that way, but I wouldnt call it a problem just because of that. > > I mean I see the point but lets just say theres > "Pokers" {{champion:81}} {{champion:42}} kind of {{champion:51}} , > "Casters" {{champion:236}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:202}} , > "Hyper carries" {{champion:96}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:18}} , > "Utility... something" {{champion:22}} {{champion:15}} also{{champion:202}} > And suddenly theres a lot of diverse "classes" bot. ez Every single one of those champions are alike in that they provide consistent, relatively safe late game scaling DPS to shred front lines and carry their teams. There are differences between individual marksmen, but they aren't nearly the same difference between a hard splitpushing skirmisher like Tryndamere or a utility tank like Maokai. What those two champions provide for a team is fundamentally different. All ADCs plant themselves in the back line and provide consistent DPS to whatever enemy they can safely target in range.
: ya fuck tanks they only here to slave for their adc kangs
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KHwOIqP,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-06-26T19:11:42.078+0000) > > ya fuck tanks > > they only here to slave for their adc kangs They are though. The class that tend towards having the kits strongest at team play shouldn't also have selfish self-sufficiency the way that divers, assassins, or skirmishers do. It's why the class can be a balance problem. When tanks do get that self-sufficiency and damage, like Galio and Zac most recently or Poppy not too long ago, they are THE most dominant picks, because they essentially become champions with no drawbacks. They can snowball and carry a game with their damage while still being very useful while behind and being able to enable their team's carries. Poppy when she was strong was a champion with no real weaknesses. Zac is one such champion right now. Even Yasuo, for all the hate he gets, only really dipped into that territory when he was abusing a zero crit tanky build he was never intended to be viable using. But it must be said that it works the other way. League is so damage-focused early game that tanks do need the damage to trade early game or clear the jungle so they don't automatically lose lane or provide zero pressure respectively, which makes them feel awful.
: Im watching fiora lvl 1 renekton in the LCS
> [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y09lErVc,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-25T22:15:56.909+0000) > > While I understand renekton doesnt have the greatest level 1, that's just retarded. Fiora killed a Renekton at level 1 in the LCS? Did the Renekton accidentally take Q instead of W? Did they try to fight her at level 1, before Renekton is a big boy and when Fiora is arguably at her strongest early game? Renekton would also get pubstomped by a Tryndamere, Yasuo, Jax (to a lesser extent, since Jax can't easily engage fights himself), or even Riven (despite Ren being one of her most well-known counters) at level 1, because Renekton's level 1 is very weak. Skirmisher level 1s are universally strong, due to having better auto attacks than most champions, having mobility, having their defensive tools, having low cooldown abilities for all-ins, having access to their steroids, or any combination of these factors. If the Renekton put themselves in a position where Fiora could kill them at level 1, they played badly. Period. Renekton should start W to thwart any attempts at an all-in and patiently wait for level 2 or 3, where he becomes a big boy.
: Has top 20 win rate in diamond too so thats just bullshit from Yasuo mains who want their freelo to not end. Enjoy the rework, I hope they gut him.
> [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UXKZYl2J,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-06-25T09:53:56.987+0000) > > Has top 20 win rate in diamond too so thats just bullshit from Yasuo mains who want their freelo to not end. Enjoy the rework, I hope they gut him. Where do you see that he has a top 20 win rate in diamond?
: Dear Yasuo Users
I don't say that at all. I say "gg ez getrekt shitty monkey" because I dominated the Wu in lane with my superior mechonix.
: > [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:44:34.905+0000) > > You can't even recognize that you're low elo, and that your experiences in-game don't matter. > > High elo (Diamond 1+) players don't ban Yasuo often, nor do they really complain about him. Why do you think that is? he is banned in high elo. and his ban rate says you are being dumb. you are literally trying to argue against math right now.
> [{quoted}](name=zarxus1234,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-24T03:26:45.761+0000) > > he is banned in high elo. and his ban rate says you are being dumb. you are literally trying to argue against math right now. No, he's banned in plat+ and low diamond. That isn't high elo. Those players are not good at the game my friend.
AL000 (NA)
: Top laner is garbage now
> [{quoted}](name=AL000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K7EPYrKZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:43:58.971+0000) > > {{champion:67}} kek, nice meme.
: > [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:40:30.235+0000) > > Why do you believe that your silver 1 ranked experiences matter when talking about game balance? 90% ban rate in all my games and you don't see a problem?
> [{quoted}](name=Hallbuster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:41:47.346+0000) > > 90% ban rate in all my games and you don't see a problem? I do see a problem. The problem is that you're low silver.
: > [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:40:30.235+0000) > > Why do you believe that your silver 1 ranked experiences matter when talking about game balance? i mean if you can't even recognize that yasuo is broken... i dont know what to tell your dumb ass.
> [{quoted}](name=zarxus1234,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:42:17.135+0000) > > i mean if you can't even recognize that yasuo is broken... i dont know what to tell your dumb ass. You can't even recognize that you're low elo, and that your experiences in-game don't matter. High elo (Diamond 1+) players don't ban Yasuo often, nor do they really complain about him. Why do you think that is?
: maybe if they would balance this champion. this champion is beyond broken. How can you say he is not even strong when he is one of the strongest champs in the game? he has been in everyone of my games that he has not been banned in. there is obviously a problem with this champion.
> [{quoted}](name=zarxus1234,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUEpZ9TP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-24T02:39:01.454+0000) > > maybe if they would balance this champion. this champion is beyond broken. How can you say he is not even strong when he is one of the strongest champs in the game? > > he has been in everyone of my games that he has not been banned in. there is obviously a problem with this champion. Why do you believe that your silver 1 ranked experiences matter when talking about game balance?
: As a Riven/Darius player it's kinda sad I can tank a Tryndamere better as Riven with Ninja Tabi/Death's Dance then a Darius with Ninja Tabi/Deadman's Plate
> [{quoted}](name=Themyscira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6GEvRNXP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-23T13:58:06.595+0000) > > As a Riven/Darius player it's kinda sad I can tank a Tryndamere better as Riven with Ninja Tabi/Death's Dance then a Darius with Ninja Tabi/Deadman's Plate No you can't. Death's dance doesn't provide nearly as much damage reduction against physical attacks as an item that provides more percent damage reduction than the damage delay of death's dance as well as more health. And imagine if you had a randuin's, which cuts into Tryndamere's damage harder than both deadman's and death's dance.
: wat exactly do you mean? its clear the item is being abused, its on a "stack" system and range champs can AUTO ATTACK FROM RANGE to make use of the item... thats why it is abused, it has nothing to do with range champ wins rates or what not, they should not be able to build it. forget about the fact that it gives "Squishy" range ADC HEALTH AND CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=Solidarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gBZKBwA2,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:47:13.515+0000) > > it has nothing to do with range champ wins rates No, it has everything to do with how strong the champions actually are with it. If they aren't overpowered with the item, there doesn't need to be a change to nerf it for them or make it unavailable to them. That's ridiculously stupid.
: dealing physical damage to an enemy unit affected by cleaver grants 5% armor penetration (stacks up to 6 times) against the target - **halved for ranged** mechanically the only difference is that champions dont actually get their armor numbers reduced and armor scalings on the tanks items and in their kits arent affected. WOW, that was difficult.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gBZKBwA2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-06-23T20:34:48.311+0000) > > dealing physical damage to an enemy unit affected by cleaver grants 5% armor penetration (stacks up to 6 times) against the target - **halved for ranged** > > mechanically the only difference is that champions dont actually get their armor numbers reduced and armor scalings on the tanks items and in their kits arent affected. > > WOW, that was difficult. What big strong top tier ranged champions are abusing cleaver right now?
: Oh another change that would help adcs? What else did I expect?
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gBZKBwA2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-06-23T22:01:24.677+0000) > > Oh another change that would help adcs? What else did I expect? Which ADC or marksman that ever builds cleaver would this help with? Lucian? His E>AA>Q>AA combo would suddenly become extremely inefficient at stacking cleaver, as would his ult, since it deals over six different instances of physical damage per second. It would become awful on him. Miss Fortune? Her ultimate, almost the sole reason she buys the item, even at rank one deals four instances of physical damage in one second. She would be missing two instances per second. Graves? Graves is actually ass fucked by this change. Graves is a bursty bruiser who can't fire more than one auto per second. The reason he likes cleaver is that he can stack it with a single point blank auto attack. Making him unable to do that ruins the item for him, since he also can't afford to spread his burst out. The item will become useless on him. What other marksman even builds it? Ashe occasionally? It might still be okay on Ashe, oh the humanity. Seriously, use your brain. Why would this help ADCs?
: delusional? i don't think so, this would requiere you to balance champions around items which has been done for some champions but not for everyone and hell not for adcs they always end up using items that were not intended to be used by them like lethality recently
> [{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-23T06:12:34.494+0000) > > delusional? i don't think so, this would requiere you to balance champions around items which has been done for some champions but not for everyone and hell not for adcs Of course they are. They are balanced with the intention of taking a while to ramp up, but being very strong once built. Hence crit, and hence why balance problems arise when they can abuse itemization that lets them scale earlier, like with lethality, even if they end up being weaker once full build. An ADC isn't able to lifesteal more than Fiddlesticks until late into the game, like five items including boots, barring maybe filthy bork rushers. > they always end up using items that were not intended to be used by them like lethality recently Which ends up making them balance items, because they are using items that weren't intended to factor into their power budget, like what happened when Yasuo went with a bruiser build that had zero crit. You're helping my point, not hurting it.
: all of that are in fiddle's power budget ADCS can get a better fiddle's draintanking with items while having other tools in their power budget
> [{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-06-22T21:27:01.198+0000) > > all of that are in fiddle's power budget > > ADCS can get a better fiddle's draintanking with items while having other tools in their power budget Are you so delusional you believe the items champions are intended to build aren't included in their power budget?
: Why can ADCs draintank better than Fiddlesticks?
> [{quoted}](name=Disulfiram,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-22T20:57:03.355+0000) > > No, seriously: Fiddle's W has short range, a CD, a mana cost, can be interrupted, and is a self root. > Shouldn't it at least be as good as an ADC's draintanking, considering how much more does it cost? > > (Please note that I don't think that Fiddle's W is too weak; I do think though that adcs have access to too much draintanking, which is an answer -albeit the wrong one imho- to this game having so much damage across the board that without this draintanking then even CC tanks would -and do!- solo 1-shoot carries). I don't know, why does Fiddlesticks AOE silence entire teams better than ADCs? Why does Fiddlesticks have much higher AOE DPS than ADCs?
agbudar (NA)
: @ Riot if a champ gets consistently double banned you need to nerf/rework that champ.
> [{quoted}](name=agbudar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hj8eGWE3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-22T19:47:45.469+0000) > > I don't know any indicator that can be more clear. as to when a champ needs to be reworked especially when the problem does not lie in the numbers such as Yassuo Alternatively, it could mean that a substantial portion of the playerbase in certain divisions are bad at the game and brainless.
: In general, people want the game to be more like their favorite role * Mage mains prefer gameplay where you're firing skillshots and dodging skillshots, and whoever does that best wins the trade * Support mains wish the whole team would ward more and peel for each other * Tank mains wish that the teamfights would last longer * Assassin mains value being the first to get the jump on someone out of position * ADC mains value good positioning and the team peeling for them ~~and right click stat checks~~ Obviously some of those attributes bleed over into other classes and people like a blend of them, but whatever one you like the most is what you tend to agree with. Also, a lot of upvotes/downvotes depends on how a topic is presented and who sees it. [There's a post right now that's OK with Orianna nerfs](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9a30ut33-yeah-as-an-orianna-main-i-wouldnt-mind-her-being-nerfed), and it's getting Upvotes, so it's not just "mage bias" drowning things out.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RpGaAGsY,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-06-22T17:57:48.436+0000) > > In general, people want the game to be more like their favorite role > > * Mage mains prefer gameplay where you're firing skillshots and dodging skillshots, and whoever does that best wins the trade > * Support mains wish the whole team would ward more and peel for each other > * Tank mains wish that the teamfights would last longer > * Assassin mains value being the first to get the jump on someone out of position > * ADC mains value good positioning and the team peeling for them ~~and right click stat checks~~ > > Obviously some of those attributes bleed over into other classes and people like a blend of them, but whatever one you like the most is what you tend to agree with. > > Also, a lot of upvotes/downvotes depends on how a topic is presented and who sees it. [There's a post right now that's OK with Orianna nerfs](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9a30ut33-yeah-as-an-orianna-main-i-wouldnt-mind-her-being-nerfed), and it's getting Upvotes, so it's not just "mage bias" drowning things out. That feel when no one ever remembers skirmishers as a class. Feels bad man.
: >Yet they decry champs that involve genuine expression of skill and mechanical/game knowledge. its true {{champion:86}} {{item:3070}}
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RpGaAGsY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-22T17:27:36.856+0000) > > its true {{champion:86}} {{item:3070}} "Dude not everyone needs to be super mechanical Garen is fine he's a beginner champion shut up"
: The clone does 75% of his damage. ["Protection Hallucination's attacks deal 75% damage to units (reduced to 26.5% against structures)"](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco) The clone also takes 50% more, and is very easy to tell apart. Yi and Trynd are both auto based champs, but they get steroids.
> [{quoted}](name=ToxicShacoPlayer,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nA4VThbl,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-22T16:53:36.642+0000) > > The clone does 75% of his damage. > > ["Protection > Hallucination's attacks deal 75% damage to units (reduced to 26.5% against structures)"](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco) > > > The clone also takes 50% more, and is very easy to tell apart. Hey thanks, I didn't catch that because it was put in a separate place from the modifier to its damage taken. That's still a 75% increase in Shaco's damage, and though it takes more damage it is very possible to kill an ADC before it dies. That it provides him actual team fight CC when it dies is just a bonus. No but, are you asking for buffs? You didn't answer the question. Because despite your whining my friend, Shaco is very viable right now.
Reav3 (NA)
: The main reason is that Visual updates aren't really appreciated nearly as much as a Gameplay update. They also take MUCH more resources. Small gameplay updates generally only take a designer and then a small amount of anim/vfx/audio work depending on which abilities change. VU's take Character Artists, tech artists, concept artists, splash artists and much more VFX, audio/anim work. If we wanted to do VUs again we would have to spin up a whole team dedicated to doing VUs unless we wanted to significantly slow down the amount of VGUs we are doing which we don't want to do as players have shown they really love and want more VGUs. When we do a GU update tons of player try out the new champion. In General whenever we do gameplay updates to the game or champions it gets players excited to play league. We don't see this same response for VUs. Lee Sin for example is pretty old visually though it doesn't really stop him from being one of the most popular champions in the game. On the other hand If a champion has unhealthy or dated/boring gameplay very few people will play that Champion. Sorry for getting very producer-y here but I hope that makes sense.
> [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VLii4BnW,comment-id=000300020000,timestamp=2017-06-22T16:24:54.710+0000) > > The main reason is that Visual updates aren't really appreciated nearly as much as a Gameplay update. They also take MUCH more resources. Small gameplay updates generally only take a designer and then a small amount of anim/vfx/audio work depending on which abilities change. VU's take Character Artists, tech artists, concept artists, splash artists and much more VFX, audio/anim work. > > If we wanted to do VUs again we would have to spin up a whole team dedicated to doing VUs unless we wanted to significantly slow down the amount of VGUs we are doing which we don't want to do as players have shown they really love and want more VGUs. > > When we do a GU update tons of player try out the new champion. In General whenever we do gameplay updates to the game or champions it gets players excited to play league. We don't see this same response for VUs. > > Lee Sin for example is pretty old visually though it doesn't really stop him from being one of the most popular champions in the game. On the other hand If a champion has unhealthy or dated/boring gameplay very few people will play that Champion. > > Sorry for getting very producer-y here but I hope that makes sense. That's nice and all, but is Mundo having any work done on him soon? What about Garen? Both have been contenders for "worst top laner" for a while now.
: Except he doesnt get 70% reduction on demand, or a windwall, or a shield, or a heal, or aoe, or undying. His kit is very much like a skirmisher, in the sense that is relies almost entirely on auto attacks. The problem is, all of the above get steroids or modifiers. Shaco doesn't.
> [{quoted}](name=ToxicShacoPlayer,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=01E9hVOQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T16:37:13.751+0000) > > Except he doesnt get 70% reduction on demand, or a windwall, or a shield, or a heal, or aoe, or undying. > > > His kit is very much like a skirmisher, in the sense that is relies almost entirely on auto attacks. > > The problem is, all of the above get steroids or modifiers. Shaco doesn't. So do you just not know what his ultimate does or something?
: Why is Shaco's TOTAL AD scaling over all abilities 0.75?
> [{quoted}](name=ToxicShacoPlayer,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nA4VThbl,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-22T15:57:41.106+0000) > > When every other %%%% has high scaling on all abilities? > > > > "uh cause shaco E does % missing health, that's why is gets a 0.75AD ratio" > > Meanwhile Lee Fucking Sin gets %90 on both parts of his Q despite having the same %, and a total combined ratio of 4.8AD. > > > Which one of the balance team was kidnapped by a clown? > > Was it you Meddler? Because he's an auto attack-based champion, one who can make a clone that has literally no damage drop-off compared to the original, doubling his damage when it is activiated. Lee Sin, by comparison, does almost all of his damage with abilities, and his only steroid is frankly laughable and only really good for helping him clear. Also, are you asking for Shaco buffs?
: Yes, but why do I have to listen to idiots constantly throwing out the "git gud" bullshit then? (not targeted at you)
> [{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=griKR1p1,comment-id=0008000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T14:13:21.781+0000) > > Yes, but why do I have to listen to idiots constantly throwing out the "git gud" bullshit then? (not targeted at you) It's good advice.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: That is not the FUCKING PROBLEM. How many times will people have to repeat this to every yasuo defender in the fucking boards. **YASUO IS NOT OP, HE IS FRUSTRATING!!!!** How many FUCKING TIMES will this need to be repeated in HOW MANY MORE THREADS?
> [{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=griKR1p1,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T14:03:26.058+0000) > > That is not the FUCKING PROBLEM. How many times will people have to repeat this to every yasuo defender in the fucking boards. > > **YASUO IS NOT OP, HE IS FRUSTRATING!!!!** > > How many FUCKING TIMES will this need to be repeated in HOW MANY MORE THREADS? He's generally only frustrating to people who are bad though.
: > [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GzXrLLo,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-13T05:20:42.757+0000) > > People who are bad at the game like yourself... That was unnecessary. Are you capable of arguing without insulting others? Or is that beyond you?
> [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GzXrLLo,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T17:51:59.747+0000) > > That was unnecessary. Are you capable of arguing without insulting others? Or is that beyond you? I am capable of it. I simply choose not to.
Gulma (NA)
: Lol? Most new releases are overloaded and then nerfed a few weeks later. Riot has been doing this for a while now, it's just Riot still hasn't found a way to balance yasuo
> [{quoted}](name=Gulma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GzXrLLo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-13T05:14:49.689+0000) > > Lol? Most new releases are overloaded and then nerfed a few weeks later. Riot has been doing this for a while now, it's just Riot still hasn't found a way to balance yasuo They've had Yasuo balanced many times. People who are bad at the game like yourself just still manage to have a hard time playing against him.
: > Jax > Cancer Choose one.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kIIE68yd,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-06-12T15:26:19.899+0000) > > Choose one. Don't need to, his design is cancer and he'll never be allowed to be competitively viable while he exists in his current state. Don't worry little guy. He'll get his rework eventually.
: Competitive play proved there's no reason to play another melee dps when Fiora exists
> [{quoted}](name=FalconPawwwwnch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kIIE68yd,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-12T05:49:48.222+0000) > > I really hope instead of just number nerfs they look at her kit as the problem because she's been this way since her rework You have it backwards. It isn't Fiora's kit that's the problem. It's the vast majority of melee DPS champions having broken kits that can't be allowed to be competitively viable that's the problem. You think reworking Fiora is going to put cancer like Jax back into competitive play? Or Xin Zhao? Or Tryndamere?
: "Sustained Burst Damage"
> [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IgH5X4ax,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-11T18:11:30.917+0000) > > I believe that's the word that a caster used to describe ADC's, specifically a Twitch > > Just watching that game proves that the description was right. > > A Leblanc W's into his range and Q +E's him only to be forced to go W back because two autos at 28 minutes takes her down to 15% hp. > Attacking from 900 range while in stealth to certain champions means certain death with no counterplay. Most adc can't counter that. Sure a LEE sin can always W away but not everyone has that in their kit. > > I've seen a this little rat burst down assassins who are on trying to assassinate him.. Provide the VOD and post a time.
: Who beats Darius in melee combat late game?
{{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:83}} Some champions I think have a good shot. Some, like Aatrox, Fiora, Jax, Yi, Nasus, Tryndamere, and Xin Zhao, do it nearly effortlessly.
AsciiCpp (NA)
: RIOT give ads some item to burst tanks
> [{quoted}](name=AsciiCpp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RmeAW09B,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-11T23:39:14.807+0000) > > I was doing super well like 5-0 as Caitlyn, and my top lane teemo is losing farm to the nasus. Nasus got tanky and in mid game and he just killed all of us. I can't even fight him. or even kill him. WTF RIOT FIX THIS GAMEEE {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3071}}
: Are there any "hard" Champions that are easy for you?
All champions come naturally to me. I'm a god.
: PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO PLAY AGAINST YASUO - WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? Seriously. He's not banned because people think he's OP. He's banned because he's **ANNOYING** to face. No one wants to deal with him. People want to enjoy the game and have fun; Yasuo is the opposite of fun. Get it now? Holy crap these Yasuo mains are so freaking defensive they refuse to see the issues with their champ.
> [{quoted}](name=LesVitesses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLAapw7f,comment-id=000700000002,timestamp=2017-06-11T23:39:26.913+0000) > > I'm bad at the game I agree.
: He's got a 92.5% ban rate since the 10 bans. Clearly, people don't want him in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Resolution,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLAapw7f,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2017-06-11T23:21:51.227+0000) > > He's got a 92.5% ban rate since the 10 bans. Clearly, people don't want him in the game. Where are you getting this number from? No site I've seen shows his ban rate that high.
: You name... uh... On a more serious note, his design isn't completely flawed, it just gives him too much room to build bruiser. Infinity + another crit item into off tank is really not how they intended him to play but it happened anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosThief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLAapw7f,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-06-11T22:37:07.924+0000) > > You name... uh... > > On a more serious note, his design isn't completely flawed, it just gives him too much room to build bruiser. Infinity + another crit item into off tank is really not how they intended him to play but it happened anyway. That's not how he's building though. With the rework to GA literally every item he builds but boots provides damage. {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3022}} This is his average build. The only item that really provides more defense than offense stat-wise is Frozen Mallet.
: i actually like new kindred a lot
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23qAE8Ep,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-10T15:54:51.773+0000) > > i don't think they follow the power-curve riot intended (good early weak mid gr8 late, they're bad early, then pick up mid and becomes great late) but, aside from not being able to fight anyone early game, they're a pretty fun experience. it's also nice that not getting stacks isn't so detrimental; if it's a counter-pick jungler like lee sin, lee sin, or lee sin you can just farm and wait to get stacks once grouping happens > > i think they need a little bit more than what they're getting on the pbe (2 ad lul) but their winrate might fix itself naturally, so who knows. she's pretty strong with a crit build once she has her items, though A jungler that's bad early game is a bad jungler in elos worth a shit. It's why Yi is almost unheard of in Diamond 1 or higher. If her early game isn't fixed she will never be actually "good", though she might be viable up to mid Diamond like Yi. I have yet to play her though, so she might indeed feel good. We'll see.
Rainfall (EUNE)
: yasuo is a currently locked out of ranked by the community 92.6% banrate. riot said they will rework him soon but i dont see him being avaiablein rankedat least till preseason 8
> [{quoted}](name=Rainfall,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uo4lptnN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-10T11:04:25.119+0000) > > yasuo is a currently locked out of ranked by the community 92.6% banrate. Got a source for that number?
Elfezen (NA)
: Is Ezreal the Champion closest to being 'Main Protagonist' in League of Legends?
There is no single protagonist. Rather, each region has an overarching story with a champion most fitting the role of protagonist. Bandle City: Hardest one to place since nothing fucking happens there, at least as far as I recall. {{champion:17}} is probably the best choice. Demacia: {{champion:99}} overall. Freljord: {{champion:22}} and {{champion:113}} are both protagonists on separate sides of a conflict ala Light and L, or Blondie and Tuco, with {{champion:127}} as the main antagonist. {{champion:23}} is sort of the protagonist of his own side story, which is far less important to the setting overall but more deeply personal to the character. Mount Targon: {{champion:44}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} All these protagonists. Leona and Diana more than Taric. Noxus: {{champion:55}} and {{champion:122}} Piltover: {{champion:51}} {{champion:254}} The ultimate yuri Piltover protagonist team. Ezreal doesn't really fit because as far as I know he has no real story connecting him to anything or anyone of note. Shurima: {{champion:163}} and {{champion:268}} The Void: {{champion:38}} Zaun: {{champion:112}} {{champion:245}} Bilgewater: {{champion:21}} {{champion:41}} Ionia: There is no one big overarching story of Ionia so it's hard to say. I guess {{champion:498}} comes closest with her shitty rebellion, along with {{champion:98}} as the vanguard against Zed's raging metrosexuality. Shadow Isles: {{champion:83}}, with {{champion:82}} as a particularly dark villain protagonist.
: riven is fine at the moment but OP items right now *deaths dance* are pushing her and other champions who use it well into strong territory. I didnt see the part about her supposed lack of burst when I responded. Your correct. Riven is very very capable of outputing some very decent burst. -_- My bad for not seeing that in my original reply. That being said. Rivens burst is rather low end for burst. If a champion gets so much as 1 health item riven i usually incapable of flat out one shotting them unless she is pretty far ahead. On even terms her burst pattern is typically over 1-2 seconds until 5-6 items where she can legit 1 shot people.
> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-10T05:44:50.634+0000) > > riven is fine at the moment but OP items right now *deaths dance* are pushing her and other champions who use it well into strong territory. I didnt see the part about her supposed lack of burst when I responded. Your correct. Riven is very very capable of outputing some very decent burst. -_- My bad for not seeing that in my original reply. > > That being said. Rivens burst is rather low end for burst. If a champion gets so much as 1 health item riven i usually incapable of flat out one shotting them unless she is pretty far ahead. On even terms her burst pattern is typically over 1-2 seconds until 5-6 items where she can legit 1 shot people. I have no issues with Riven and, even though she is very strong right now, I don't particularly want her nerfed. I'm fine with Riven. I'm not fine with people who heavily downplay their champion's strength in response to criticism. Even I as a Yasuo main do not go as far as to pretend that he is weak, like homeboy seemed to be doing, even when I defend him. And yes, her burst is only high compared to other skirmishers. The only other skirmisher whose burst against squishies exceeds Riven's is probably a six-item Tryndamere and a crit Yi. That's one of her niches among her class. Though she still has solid DPS she is mainly defined by her impressive one-shot potential compared to her peers throughout the game.
: Its actually 1.5 seconds. but otherwise well put.
> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-09T17:43:33.072+0000) > > Its actually 1.5 seconds. > but otherwise well put. It wasn't well put. Responding to idiotic garbage with idiotic garbage in the opposite direction isn't admirable. "Dude Riven has no burst cause she has to animation cancel autos to burst and she's weak because she's hard" lmao.
: Fair enough. With that said, this comment could be used to shut down all those "nerf bork for ranged!" "make it melee only!" people then.
> [{quoted}](name=fuffychan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z45P67Gj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-10T04:30:52.376+0000) > > Fair enough. With that said, this comment could be used to shut down all those "nerf bork for ranged!" "make it melee only!" people then. It is at least true that the item is definitely meant for both ranged basic attackers like Twitch or Vayne and melee basic attackers like Yi or Tryndamere. The item was definitely too strong before on pretty much everyone, ranged or melee, though I don't know if it still is.
: Then if anything, melee champions are abusing a ranged item.
> [{quoted}](name=fuffychan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z45P67Gj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-10T04:17:51.589+0000) > > Then if anything, melee champions are abusing a ranged item. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/03/patch-75-notes.html#more "When evaluating items, we want to ensure each has its own important role to play in the item system as a whole. Blade of the Ruined King has filled a number of roles over time: dueling spike, kite enabler, and tank buster, to name a few. In recent years, we've introduced new items dedicated to filling one or another of those needs, meaning many former Blade users now have better options. Blade no longer needs to cover so many bases, so we're focusing its strength onto one main behavior. The primary purpose for Blade is now to be another compelling lifesteal option for champions who care about basic attacking a lot. This focus guided our decisions on how to shuffle power. First, basic attackers reliably grab dedicated attack speed items - Blade doesn’t need to pull nearly as much of that weight. Second, quite a bit of Blade’s strength used to be tied into its active, but its new target audience needs power that manifests in every attack. We took strength from these areas and pushed it into power Blade’s users are best able to optimize." Nothing about ranged champions, melee champions, ADCs, bruisers, skirmishers, etc. It's just for champions who like basic attacking a lot. It wasn't intended for "ranged" champions. It was intended for anyone who deals their damage primarily through autos.
HeresyHorus (EUNE)
: At least AD assassins have better chance at killing ADCs 1v1 than Mages even when Mages have the "advantage" of instant burst. you will never ever kill and ADC 1v1 as a Mage when they have {{item:3812}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3156}} + scaling HP/MR rune combo . the only ADC i see Mages 1v1 successfully are {{champion:81}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:110}} .. the rest are just impossible to 1v1 as a Mage when they have the right runes and items + play right.
> [{quoted}](name=HeresyHorus,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=styvPEdQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-09T23:17:10.259+0000) > > At least AD assassins have better chance at killing ADCs 1v1 than Mages even when Mages have the "advantage" of instant burst. > > you will never ever kill and ADC 1v1 as a Mage when they have {{item:3812}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3156}} + scaling HP/MR rune combo . > > the only ADC i see Mages 1v1 successfully are {{champion:81}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:110}} .. the rest are just impossible to 1v1 as a Mage when they have the right runes and items + play right. "If an ADC builds all these items they never build together and takes runes that make them dumpstered in lane then they can duel mages" lol get a load of this clown.
: go watch a reply of any plat - dia yasuo and you will see it.
> [{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AW0E6tQZ,comment-id=000100000003000300000000,timestamp=2017-06-09T23:48:43.259+0000) > > go watch a reply of any plat - dia yasuo and you will see it. So you don't have any to give me? I accept your concession.
: A champion is getting permabanned and you think there's something wrong with the player base instead of the champion is the first problem. A champion doesn't have to be OP to be extremely frustrating or tilting to play against and that's basically what yasuo is. things that tilt people - lack of meaningful cooldowns. - high amount of mobility within your own minion wave -resourceless -Hard to keep shut out of the game - Even harder to take down when ahead. -windwall ability very powerful, forgiving ability, (hardly an outplay most of the time) Yasuo isn't OP but there are just things about him and his kit that make him rather annoying to deal with in you games... As a starter no one likes people who are resourceless and can spam abilities all day long. At least a champion like {{champion:8}} pays for being able to spam through a weak early game and having to get the 45% cdr. Yas starts much sooner. A similar champion would be {{champion:92}} but that brings the next issue. When you've shut riven down, without some kills she isn't getting back into the game through just farming the side lanes or at least it's quite difficult to. Not Yasuo. Leave him to farm for just a little bit to get items and it's like you never killed him 3 times in lane.
> [{quoted}](name=falllightbringer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXr5Eafv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-09T23:27:46.959+0000) > > A champion is getting permabanned and you think there's something wrong with the player base instead of the champion is the first problem. That's not a problem. He's exactly right. You're all whiny little guys who blame the champion when it's your own inadequacies that are holding you down.
: Are we pretending that Kled's passive and typical builds don't exist?
> [{quoted}](name=DunkinNoobs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AW0E6tQZ,comment-id=00010000000500000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-09T16:53:44.009+0000) > > Are we pretending that Kled's passive and typical builds don't exist? Stop implying that being able to heavily invest into defensive itemization while still doing your job makes you safer gawd
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=LemonsIsGood,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AW0E6tQZ,comment-id=0001000000020000,timestamp=2017-06-09T14:55:13.414+0000) > > Not agreeing with the post about Yasuo, but just like to say that Rengar is probably one of the most unsafe assassins. Rengar does what he has always done, dive in and hope you get a kill and hope you don't die. Please Rito fix this problem. Rengar shouldn't even be factored into this discussion because he isn't an assassin anymore. {{item:1412}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3026}} This is his build these days.
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PermabannedGaren

Level 7 (NA)
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