: Clash Team Recruitment (NA)
I usually mid but I'm down to main any role. Looking for an active group to chill with.
: looking for team
hit me up. I would like to jungle unless you let me play bard every game then I'm down to support ;)
: CLUB RECRUTMENT
You say be chill but your post is all caps D: IDK WHAT TO BELIEVE SEND HELP
: Team LF Mid/Top Lane
Rank: Was Plat 1 from season 3 until start of season 6. Started coaching more than playing and didn't play enough to get out of gold last season. Spent all of this season trying to help low elo IRL friends climb and am currently silver for it. I can actively solo queue in my own time to grind my rank up to whatever is requested by the team management if needed. Time: EST Champ pool: I've played since beta and can play anything. I may be rusty on something I haven't done in a long time but I can mold my champion pool to whatever it needs to be for the team with a bit of practice. I prefer mechanically interactive champions like Zed, Ekko, Lee Sin, Ezreal, Bard, etc. as they enable my play making potential but am willing to play meta picks for any role. Discord including mic (yes/no): Yes Can you shot call? Yes. I've shot called on gold+ teams since season 2. 1 Strength: I pull aggro off of other players by playing aggressively because I feel comfortable relieving pressure off of other lanes. 2 weakness: I spend much of my time in this game coaching and sometimes when I'm functioning as a player on a team I forget I'm not in that coaching role and can overstep my position as far as reviewing games and giving advice goes. I can also play too aggressively when I'm playing with new people as I learn what the strengths and weaknesses are to the team identity and how to play around them. Can you take criticism in constructive manners: Yes, although my coaching instincts get the better of me sometimes in this if I disagree with the macro strategy plan to the concept behind the criticism. Why do you personally want to play on a team: I don't coach as many teams as I used to and have more free time as a player now. You can only watch so many vods before getting the urge to play. :D
RSH (NA)
: Cloud Gaming LF Gold+ Players for all roles to build serious teams.
IGN: Phaetox Age: 27 What you're applying for (Starter or Sub): Starter or Sub. Either is fine. Role/s: I can play anything. Preferably mid/jungle>top. I like support but ardent censor meta is boring. I don't mind playing ADC but I'm sure there are plenty of ADC mains trying out. I can also role swap at any point during the team's time together if needed to fix roster issues. Rank: I was Plat 1 from early Season 3 until start of Season 6. I haven't played much in last 2 seasons other than trying to duo with IRL friends in half assed attempts to help them climb. I ended gold last year and haven't bothered to climb out of silver this season. I would start playing seriously as a team member though and would actually grind solo queue to reflect that if the team wishes. Top Champions: Zed, Ekko, Lee Sin, Ezreal, Karma, Bard, Shen, Trundle, Orianna, Gragas, Zac, etc. You get the idea. Weakest Champions: Anyone I haven't played in a long time and am mechanically rusty at. There's a few champs I just don't enjoy playing but I can perform fine on them if requested to do so. Strengths: I've played since beta and have always been a shot caller so can fill that role if needed. As a player, I pull a ton of aggro towards myself and relieve pressure off of other lanes. I perform well in skirmishes and team fights even if operating at a gold deficit. Weaknesses: As a shot caller, sometimes I tunnel vision and don't make a call for a few seconds while in mechanically intensive 1v1 fights or while I'm taking out a target as an assassin in team fights. I tend to play on teams that also have a secondary shot caller for this reason. If the team already has shot calling established, my primary weakness tends to be over aggression while learning the limits of how much aggro I can afford to pull off of my teammates. Usually this problem dissipates after playing with people for awhile though as I learn more about them and how much aggro / focus they can handle and consequently how much I need to pull to maximize the benefit to them. Experience in a team environment (You don't have to have had any!): I've played on plat+ ranked teams before and have scrimmed against challenger teams on multiple occasions while subbing. I've also coached high elo teams and done analyst work. What I can bring to the team: Shot calling, large champion pool, flexible role swapping, positive team mentality, the ability to pull aggro off of other players, proactive play making, chill vibes. Extra Information: I don't coach as many teams as I had been in the last few seasons so I have more free time as a player. I can tryout for any available position and would also be willing to work with the team as a coach if needed. My game knowledge is very strong but my mechanics are rusty / weak from spending more time coaching than playing. Looking to improve this.
Chemmy (NA)
: LF Confident Jungler!
Rank: Currently Silver but I was Plat 1 from early Season 3 until Season 6 started. Just didn't play last 2 seasons but looking to get back into it. I can also play any role if needed. Discord? Yes. @Phaetox #4975 Top 5 Champs: I've played since beta. I can play any champion you want me to. I'm rather aggressive and like to skirmish so I tend to favor champs like Lee, Ekko, Trundle, Rek'Sai, Zac, etc. Just tell me what you want to see. Able to play 8 pm EST Fri-Sat: Yes. I make my own schedule at work so with enough notice I can take any day off. Op.GG : http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Phaetox My op.gg looks like garbage as I've really not played last 2 seasons except to duo w/ IRL friends (aka bads) in attempt to help get them out of low elo. Most of my match history is trashy but I'd play seriously on a team.
Rioter Comments
Roguely (NA)
: i think you were watching the wrong season. this is about season 6, na lcs. IMT not polished, just brute force wins. yes. lots and lots of wins. and fast too.
Apparently not. I was watching the same season C9's team management was watching. They benched Balls for Impact. Why would they do that if Balls was top 3 in NA at his role?
: Ask Riot How You Get That S+ on Urgot
If you're worried about people min/maxing for mastery rank rather than playing to win, just make it so that in order to get an S grade you have to have won the game. If you lose, A+ should automatically be the cap. People already are doing this without you revealing the formula and it is a burden in games to have a teammate who refuses to team fight in order to avoid deaths. This change should be implemented whether you reveal the formula or not.
: Announcing the 2016 Spring Split award winners
These lists are terrible. It's clear that team standings had more to do with these lists than the skill of the players. These awards should honor star players. Not every star player is on a top team because you can't just put a bunch of stars together and do well. You need complimentary players / supportive roles to help highlight strengths on a team. Aphromoo should be above Adrian who really only makes it on the list at all because the field of supports in NA is rather weak. Wildturtle and Balls are definitely not top 3 in their roles though. Piglet and Freeze are 100% better. Maybe I'd agree Wildturtle, Sneaky, DLift, and Altec were all roughly around one another skill wise. Aside from Huni and Darshan who are already placed above Balls, I would not hesitate in the slightest to rank Seraph, Impact, and Hauntzer all above Balls. Lourlo doesn't deserve an honorable mention. Sure he's a rookie but you can't just list him because you needed to fill the list. Just pick Dardoch and list Matt as the only runner up. Most people are probably also agitated to see Pobelter on the list at all. I do think Pobelter is a really good player and we've seen him body Bjerg 1v1 before so no doubt he can have instances where he shines. The best thing I can say about Pobelter is that he's gotten more consistent over time rather than being completely hit or miss. But generally on his team he plays a complimentary supportive role and isn't the start carry. Jensen, Bjerg, GBM, FeniX, and Ninja all out class him individually. Sure I'd agree that he fulfills a role on his team better than some of those players but I can't honestly say he's mechanically better than them on a regular basis. I don't understand why Dylan got the coach award or why LemonNation is mentioned. Zikz and Loco both did more with weaker rosters. IMT got first but their play isn't polished and they tend to just brute force wins. This list is tilt city.
: Patch 5.22 notes
Question: Why would Corki want his empowered Valkyrie to knock aside enemies off of his burning trail? That would seem to decrease his damage...
Auryiel (NA)
: Cutting a mage's damage is not only easy, but building health also makes it exponentially better because of how limited magic damage is compared to physical damage If a few champions in top lane are abusive, they can just be nerfed to an appropriate power level.
I think the MR buffs are compensation for tanks in exchange for buffing the AP items. HP used to be a fine way to deal with burst mages but most of the top tier magic damage dealers in the game right now are not burst oriented, they are sustained damage. Especially with the buffs to Liandry's.
: Literally nothing happens when I try to edit, so I'm gonna delete it and copy pasta it here: > > I've spent a considerable amount of time playing Mordekaiser as well in S3 and S4. At first I was so impressed by this champion. Like, how come I can't take any damage from the enemy laner? How come I can push them into oblivion like it's nothing? And then I tried to teamfight. Against less organized teams (read: bronze) I was able to take out priority targets and get a powerful ghost and wreck face. I though Mordekaiser was invincible. And then as I rose through the ranks (read: silver), I found that, even with just ONE tank in front of the enemy carry, I could not burst them down and get the ghost needed to win fights. > > The problem is that two of his four spells will realistically never be used to damage a ranged opponent because it requires you to be in their face, and Mordekaiser lacks the mobility to do that. His E+R combo can chunk the ADC for 75% of his/her hp but just can't kill without someone else helping. This is why he's suffering the most right now: in previous seasons, you always had a butt buddy to dive the enemy backline with (whether it was the assassin jungler, bruiser toplane or support Annie, someone also wanted to kill the enemy ADC just as much as you), so it was easier to get a ghost and succeed. Now, you're going to have to do it alone, and that problem is made worse by the removal of DFG. > > His early game is great. Too great in fact; that's all he has going for him. He simply falls off as the game progresses until he's more useless than Pantheon. I love his kit and his strengths too, but his problems are pretty apparent. I can guarantee you that in 10 games with Morde you'll start seeing these problems too. In the meantime, enjoy bringing GREAT SUFFERING to your opponents. HUEHUEHUE
lol nbd I managed to read it anyway. But you're completely right in that he struggles to really get enemy ADC ghosts the higher you climb. Tends to be why he is mainly played as anti-dive / help your allied carries kill tanks faster type of champion right now.
: True, but building resists would still be better so your passive shield is worth more.
You're probably also right about the tenacity. Others had mentioned in comments that a big problem for Morde is that he can't utilize his passive shield when he gets CC'd and can get blown up in that window. But I think that's actually an important part of counter play to him. So probably no tenacity. Though tenacity does still make sense for him in the sense that he is melee with no mobility steroids but meh. I do want to point out that I definitely agree with you saying to put more damage on his W. It actually did have more damage before 5.4 but they nerfed it for some reason. The patch notes talked about how they were trying to make Morde better by lowering the health costs and they tried to make it sound like they were buffing him with fancy words but in all reality they nerfed his health regen and lowered his W's damage so I would like to see some of that damage returned to it.
Helmight (NA)
: I think Morde's in a slightly better spot that you give him credit for right now, given that almost all of the items he builds got buffed in the last patch. HOWEVER, I agree immensely with your analysis of Mordekaiser's problems. He is in desperate need of a rework. And PLEASE people, let's make him a tanky champion that doesn't have the playstyle of "ghost or die" in teamfights.
I definitely agree that the AP itemization changes have helped him out a lot. But at the same time they've also buffed all of his counterparts so he isn't much better in comparison to the champions you'd tend to pick for the same role. He is almost always fringe viable in that he can shut down assassins but also has % hp damage in his ult to fight the tank meta with. I know a lot of people feel the tank meta is "boring" but I actually think that it makes team fights last longer and therefore we get to see more time for mechanics to shine and for plays to be made. I also think that tank Morde would be less binary and toxic as you mention because he wouldn't be either OP or useless depending on his ultimate.
: Just think of mana etc. as a utility stat. It doesn't increase your direct damage (with some exceptions) in any way, it just lets you DO more damage via spamming spells. When you buy mana items your damage suffers. Period. Take tear, instead of getting AP you are now weaker (damage wise) than your opponent. That means they out-trade you, and in the longer run may even kill you. However, you can now out-sustain them spell wise, so provided they run out of mana first you're fine. buying MP/5 etc. has always had a cost. Mord doesn't have more or less costs on it, it just might not be as "effective" as it is in buying CDR items. The same goes for other champs , some might prefer CDR but lack the mana for it.....
It depends on the context actually. If you only care about one rotation of spells for burst damage then no mana regen does not affect your DPS calculations. But if you are trying to calculate your sustained damage for characters who put out multiple rotations of spells in team fights or someone who spams spells then mana regen actually does factor into your dps calculations and can improve your damage. Base damage, ap ratios, cool downs, mana pool, and mana regen all factor into how many spells you can put out within a given time period with a given amount of mana and mana regen. The math gets really complicated and extremely individualized for each champion with different stats but it does play into the calcs.
: ***
: A well thought out post, but you imply that Morde can't benefit completely from a spirit visage, and I have to ask what exactly you've been smoking, because it's gotta be some good shit. His ult automatically becomes 120% spell vamp, it works great with his shield and any vamp he would be getting from wota. That leaves 4 item slots. Sorcs if running 20% runes/masts lucidity otherwise. Pick 3 {{item:3089}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} there are no wrong choices. What would I like to see from Morde? A mechanic like Tahm's gray health that heals him for a % of his shield as it degenerates.
It's not that he doesn't synergize with SV, just that he has to give up an item slot normally used for more damage in order to obtain it. If you're trying to play the type of Mordekaiser that can obtain a ghost by himself, then you can't afford that item slot for SV. Now if you're just trying to use your ult to help mow down whoever is a dive threat to your AD Carry, you can probably fit it in there. Then again, the enemy team isn't guaranteed to have much AP (though it is pretty common in the meta right now) but the fact remains that speccing defensively is situational for him. Vladimir enjoys SV too but he gets more from it than Morde does due to his passive and E stacks double dipping into % increase steroids for healing. The item is certainly good but you probably can't build it every game. Some players may not want to build it at all if they need to put out more DPS in order to be relevant. For instance even Vlad's can't always afford to build a Spirit Visage in some games because they need more damage. We saw this all the time in professional play when Vlad was getting picked mid a lot.
: Hey, at least we can be amicable about our differences in opinions. I think adding tenacity to his kit might push him into Irelia's territory. I did like your idea about giving him some AP from missing health. If you made it a conversion based off of his actual health lost (not percent) you could make it better for Morde to build those HP items. I am unfortunately not sure on how balanced that idea is, especially since Karma used to have AP from missing health (percent based though) and it was removed.
Well even if they do make it a percent building health is still good. So that when you're at 40% HP or whatever you still have more actual health left than if you didn't build health items.
Jacknife (NA)
: Not sure if anyone posted this already, but theirs a short talk with Morello on what they plan with Mordekaiser. A lot of things are still up in the air, but one thing for sure is that Morde is not getting any form of CC or outstanding mobility. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/07/red-post-collection-lyte-on-team.html
Awesome! Thank you. So it looks like Riot has confirmed some of the concerns such as people wanting his lack of CC and lack of mobility to remain part of his champion identity. Interesting.
: **Uses Health as a Resource** I think you really underastimate the value of his shield, as well as the fact that his abillities have flat costs. Mordes helathcosts diminish in relation to his healthpool and the shieldgain the longer the game goes, unlike the %helathcosts of other champs. Mordes earlylaneing is rathe oppresive already, his E harras is very nasty, his waveclear is extreme, and his shield blocks any harras atempts. If you don't have a champion with a really strong early all-in, there is little you can do. In many matchups, the only health i loose as morde in lane is that which i spend on my abillitys. His low early sustain is needed to somewhat balance out the spamable E poke and his shield. **Does Not Use Mana** Getting cdr on manaless champions that don't want blackcleaver is always dificult, thats not a specific thing for morde. He can prettymuch go the same path as vlad, between wota and his ult, he has definitly enough selfheal to justify a SV, and reciving extra tankstats really doesn't hurt for a imobile shortranged champ without cc. >5.) Other Mana-less Mages without resets / innate CDR have some form of soft or hard crowd control. A slow is no **HARD** crowd control... not sure what you mean with innate cdr, the only champions that gain cdr from their kit are cassio and ryze... **Melee with rather short-ranged abilities. ** This is the main issue of Morde. The only way he can make up for the lack of range, cc and mobillity are insane amounts of damage and mobillity. However, if strong enough to compenstae his weaknesses, this means that he becomes totally opressive vs anyone that needs to get into his range. Haveing no means of utillity always will lead into a rather binary experience that either is bad to play as or bad to play against. He's just a slowly wandering zone of pain and death... This also leads to him beeing incredible vulnerable to ganks, one of his major weaknesses. **Gains a shield from his passive** >1.) The shield is produced via doing damage I honestly don't think it's a great concept, as it tends to snowball absurdly hard. If morde gets ahead and invest in damage, he will not only decimate you fast, he will also be kinda invincible while doing so., a problem that other champs({{champion:92}} ) with offensive-scaleing shields are well known for. >2.) The shield is better when in a lane OR** in team fights than it is in duels**. this is the best example of a great designed mechanic for a bruiser. One if the major problems for bruiser/fighter is that they would need massive tankiness to endure through teamfights and make use of their dps, which results in them either beeing good in teamfights and opressive 1v1m or strong 1v1 and poor in teamfights(just recently had a shivanagame where i died within 2.4sec in a teamfight, with 4khealth, 220armoe and 300+mr+Banshies vs 4ap+kallista, while i could solo any enemie champ without really loosing health in a 1v1) to be honest, i never feel weak in a 1v1 with morde, the only thing that hinders his splitpushing is rather low tower damage and mostly the lack of escape >3.) Compare Mordekaiser's shield mechanic to other champions that play a similar role Compareing morde with diana is like compareing irelia with mundo, they are very different champions with a differnt playstyle and purpose. >4.) Other champions with shields have an AP ratio or % max HP ratio on their shield strength. His shield sales with AP, since it scales with the damage you deal, and your damage scales with AP(and with magic-pen) you rarly will hit the shield cap unless the enemie igores you. ------- His shield is quite tricky, based on damage it is pretty snowbally, but everyone who witnessed the S1 tank-kaiser should be scared of flat-shieldgain...never had such an easy 1v5 pentakill. However, items have changed, without te massive healthregen of old warmong+FoN, tankmore probably isn't as scarry anymore, especially if his ult would see some nerfs. i guess shield gain based on damge and max-shield based on %hp(maybe even %missing hp?) might work to force him into a more balanced ap+tank built without seeing either full ap or full tank dominate **Unique and game changing Ultimate** While his ult is very unique and definilty core to his identity, it'S also what holds him back the most. It is just so overpowered that it consumes to much powerbudget. It deals hiigh amounts of %damage, heals morde for the dmage dealt, creats a very, very powerfull ghost if the victim dies, especially if the victim was the adc, morde gains shiled from the damage the ghost deals, and he recives maxhealth and ap from his victim on top - his ult nearly reads like the summary of a entire champion-kit... I think that ult needs to loose some power to allow more power in his base kit. right now, if morde gets an early ghost, the teamfight is as good as won. If he gets the adc-ghost, not only the teamfight is won but the closest objectives are savely taken aswell... I think if he wouldn't revive a shield from the dmage his ghost does, it would already free some power - and balance out the target selection, as the adc ghost now wouldn't grant morde more tankiness than a tank ghost. Also, since ghost only can walk and AA, i's say reduce the bonus damage the ghost gains and give melee-ghost aditional ms, so ranged ghosts aren't stronger than meleeghosts in nearly every situation maybe lower the intital burst dmage, but add vision to the target to make it more of a mark-target move. -------------- > grant him additional CDR per % of missing health I really like that idea, it would allow more variatoion on his itembuilt.
Also, I know that his health costs diminish as the game goes on due to their flat cost nature. But that's sort of Morde's problem as a champion is that he starts off really bad but curves sharply into the late game. This is sort of a design issue and I think it would be better to smooth out this power curve relative to game time. Improve his early game but don't make his late game so crazy. This is along the same lines as the community wanting his power budget shifted off of his ult and moved onto the rest of his kit.
Lynxonyx (NA)
: After playing Morde for a few days now, he certainly has some issues. Easy fix: Have his shield not decay, don't make his abilities cost hp. Tada!
I think it's important to keep some sort of decay rate. If your shield doesn't last forever it raises the skill cap on how you use it. You can choose when to generate it in order to improve trading / tanking capabilities. So I don't want a shield that players don't have to consciously think about. The main problem I have with it is that shields are generally best designed from a balancing stance as being a high skill cap tool. You pay a cost to use a shield, be that mana or health or a cool down or whatever, and you block damage with it but if you use it at a bad time you pay a cost for nothing in return. Now the difference here with Morde is that everything he does generates a shield so he's always paying the cost without always receiving the benefit of trying to use it to block damage. The best example of this is when you aren't near an enemy champion and are just wave clearing. Ideally, you don't want to spend your health because you don't need a shield because you aren't in any danger of taking damage. But you have to use your abilities to wave clear so you're still doing those things regardless. I mentioned this in a different comment's reply but I think it would be interesting to see maybe his E generate a shield and cost health but not have his Q either have no cost or have a refund mechanic on minion kill for the cost BUT not generate his passive shield. That way you can Q if you just want to wave clear and then E if you're trying to gain a shield for fights / trading / tanking jungle camps / whatever. Not that this is the exact change I would implement but it is an example of how to raise the skill cap on his shield mechanic to make his play more interesting and dynamic for both players and opponents.
: **Uses Health as a Resource** I think you really underastimate the value of his shield, as well as the fact that his abillities have flat costs. Mordes helathcosts diminish in relation to his healthpool and the shieldgain the longer the game goes, unlike the %helathcosts of other champs. Mordes earlylaneing is rathe oppresive already, his E harras is very nasty, his waveclear is extreme, and his shield blocks any harras atempts. If you don't have a champion with a really strong early all-in, there is little you can do. In many matchups, the only health i loose as morde in lane is that which i spend on my abillitys. His low early sustain is needed to somewhat balance out the spamable E poke and his shield. **Does Not Use Mana** Getting cdr on manaless champions that don't want blackcleaver is always dificult, thats not a specific thing for morde. He can prettymuch go the same path as vlad, between wota and his ult, he has definitly enough selfheal to justify a SV, and reciving extra tankstats really doesn't hurt for a imobile shortranged champ without cc. >5.) Other Mana-less Mages without resets / innate CDR have some form of soft or hard crowd control. A slow is no **HARD** crowd control... not sure what you mean with innate cdr, the only champions that gain cdr from their kit are cassio and ryze... **Melee with rather short-ranged abilities. ** This is the main issue of Morde. The only way he can make up for the lack of range, cc and mobillity are insane amounts of damage and mobillity. However, if strong enough to compenstae his weaknesses, this means that he becomes totally opressive vs anyone that needs to get into his range. Haveing no means of utillity always will lead into a rather binary experience that either is bad to play as or bad to play against. He's just a slowly wandering zone of pain and death... This also leads to him beeing incredible vulnerable to ganks, one of his major weaknesses. **Gains a shield from his passive** >1.) The shield is produced via doing damage I honestly don't think it's a great concept, as it tends to snowball absurdly hard. If morde gets ahead and invest in damage, he will not only decimate you fast, he will also be kinda invincible while doing so., a problem that other champs({{champion:92}} ) with offensive-scaleing shields are well known for. >2.) The shield is better when in a lane OR** in team fights than it is in duels**. this is the best example of a great designed mechanic for a bruiser. One if the major problems for bruiser/fighter is that they would need massive tankiness to endure through teamfights and make use of their dps, which results in them either beeing good in teamfights and opressive 1v1m or strong 1v1 and poor in teamfights(just recently had a shivanagame where i died within 2.4sec in a teamfight, with 4khealth, 220armoe and 300+mr+Banshies vs 4ap+kallista, while i could solo any enemie champ without really loosing health in a 1v1) to be honest, i never feel weak in a 1v1 with morde, the only thing that hinders his splitpushing is rather low tower damage and mostly the lack of escape >3.) Compare Mordekaiser's shield mechanic to other champions that play a similar role Compareing morde with diana is like compareing irelia with mundo, they are very different champions with a differnt playstyle and purpose. >4.) Other champions with shields have an AP ratio or % max HP ratio on their shield strength. His shield sales with AP, since it scales with the damage you deal, and your damage scales with AP(and with magic-pen) you rarly will hit the shield cap unless the enemie igores you. ------- His shield is quite tricky, based on damage it is pretty snowbally, but everyone who witnessed the S1 tank-kaiser should be scared of flat-shieldgain...never had such an easy 1v5 pentakill. However, items have changed, without te massive healthregen of old warmong+FoN, tankmore probably isn't as scarry anymore, especially if his ult would see some nerfs. i guess shield gain based on damge and max-shield based on %hp(maybe even %missing hp?) might work to force him into a more balanced ap+tank built without seeing either full ap or full tank dominate **Unique and game changing Ultimate** While his ult is very unique and definilty core to his identity, it'S also what holds him back the most. It is just so overpowered that it consumes to much powerbudget. It deals hiigh amounts of %damage, heals morde for the dmage dealt, creats a very, very powerfull ghost if the victim dies, especially if the victim was the adc, morde gains shiled from the damage the ghost deals, and he recives maxhealth and ap from his victim on top - his ult nearly reads like the summary of a entire champion-kit... I think that ult needs to loose some power to allow more power in his base kit. right now, if morde gets an early ghost, the teamfight is as good as won. If he gets the adc-ghost, not only the teamfight is won but the closest objectives are savely taken aswell... I think if he wouldn't revive a shield from the dmage his ghost does, it would already free some power - and balance out the target selection, as the adc ghost now wouldn't grant morde more tankiness than a tank ghost. Also, since ghost only can walk and AA, i's say reduce the bonus damage the ghost gains and give melee-ghost aditional ms, so ranged ghosts aren't stronger than meleeghosts in nearly every situation maybe lower the intital burst dmage, but add vision to the target to make it more of a mark-target move. -------------- > grant him additional CDR per % of missing health I really like that idea, it would allow more variatoion on his itembuilt.
I'm aware that a slow is not hard crowd control. In the exact quote you have showed I say soft OR hard cc (aka slows = soft cc). By innate CDR I mean either free CDR from passives or things like resets. Katarina for example has no need to buy CDR because of resets. So even though there aren't many good CDR items for her she is designed to bypass that problem. Mordekaiser is not really designed with any way around that issue. You're correct in saying that WotA and SV are good together on him. My point wasn't saying that those are bad on him just that he has no innate kit ratios to provide incentive to buy mixed offense and defense other than his play style. Vlad's passive is an example of this type of thing. Even without Vlad's passive you'd probably still want to build him relatively the same due to his play style but the game still provides you an incentive to indicate how they intend the champion to be played. I do like the fact that he is better in team fights than he is split pushing I agree that is a mechanic I would like to see remain intact. I just was using it to explain how he has trouble using his "abusive wave clear" strength as a path to a split pushing role. But overall I agree with a lot of the points you bring up. I think we see eye to eye on most of these issues I just may not have done a great job of putting all of my points in the proper context I meant to.
Gavran (NA)
: You continuously make the core assumption that Mordekaiser isn't paying costs in his kit in order to be manaless - that is an absurd claim. Those costs are often represented in cooldowns, range and damage numbers. A Ziggs who doesn't run out of mana is doing *way* more *way more* often than a Mordekaiser with the same items. When you spend X gold on mana, you are not off-setting your resource pool's weakness, that gold is wasted. When Ziggs does it, he's offsetting his weakness and still getting as much AP/utility passives as Mordekaiser is. Offsetting a weakness is equivalent to buffing a strength. Yes, Mordekaiser doesn't have that weakness - that does not mean he doesn't have other weaknesses, which you are not addressing, to compensate. Not to say that a Lich Bane or Morello's can never be a good purchase for him, but that is not because they don't waste gold on mana. ---- RoA is and always has been extremely cost efficient but you trade an earlier power spike to do that. In Vlad's case, you either start with catalyst, spending half the money on useless mana (and you could've just got a Revolver for the sustain) or you start with a Wand, have a smaller power spike, and don't get the benefit of Catalyst's passive when it's most useful. It's not a super terrible purchase because Vlad can take a pretty safe passive role in lane while you wait for it to come online, but being passive is always worse than being dominant if you can get away with it - and a level 7-9 Vlad with a WotA can bully a lot of champions out of lane with ease.
How did you make that fancy line to separate your post topics plz teach me senpai do you realize how much neater my original post could have been D:
Phaetox (NA)
: You're not wrong but there are a few problems with that line of logic. His shield certainly produces more effective HP than he spends to create it. However it decays rather quickly and there is a possibility that nothing actually damages you while it is up. If your shield doesn't block any damage then all you've done is lost health. The Spell Vamp is generally something he rushes but it has reduced effects for AoE (AKA all of his abilities) whereas Vlad not only gets to utilize it on his single target Q, he also gets healed from his Q already in addition to that, AND his E stacks increase how much health he gets back from spell vamp. So realistically Mordekaiser has nowhere near the item synergy that Vlad has with Revolver / WotA. Of course it's still really the only viable item to rush on him as a Mid Lane Mage but that doesn't mean that his power budget is equal to Vlad's. Yes Morde has resistances in his kit but only while that ability is active. In order to really utilize this early / mid game you need to max W second which decreases your DPS from not ranking Q. So it is a conscious decision to trade off damage for durability. It is definitely a cool part of his kit that I love but that alone doesn't do enough to put him in a viable state as a Tank, Mage, or combination of the two.
I wanted to elaborate a bit more on the problem with his shield mechanic. For example if only E generated a shield but costed health but Q was free to cast but didn't generate a shield, then he could make conscious decisions of "oh I want to use some of my health to generate a shield to block damage" or "oh I don't need to block damage right now I'm just trying to wave clear" but in his current state he doesn't have any sort of dynamic decision making like that. He uses HP to wave clear whether he likes it or not.
: The psychological effect is a bit different on Morde and that is why it's more successful. When Vlad, Mundo or others have low HP they can regenerate it fast via their skills meaning that you see the health bar filling up. Morde on the other side doesn't get all that HP back so the enmy feels like he has a chance even when your shield is up. Yep it's not an innate steroid but I would put it on the same level of effectiveness.
Remember how they reworked how shields overlap on health bars? I'm really glad they didn't do that to Morde's passive. It would make the shield baits much harder to perform lol. I like that people still get to see your low health bar and might ignore your full shield bar. Wouldn't it be a bummer if they changed him to where his shield shows on top of his health like on other champs? ;-;
: Yeah, spell vamp as a stat is calculated post-mitigation, but the WOTA unique passive isn't technically spell vamp. It's like spell vamp, but it's calculated pre-mitigation. From the wiki: > Will of the Ancients: Unique Passive: Your abilites heal you for 15% of the damage dealt (calculated before your opponent's resistances) (33% effect for AoE). +80 ability power, +10% cooldown reduction. 2500 gold.
Yes I looked into it and found it on Patch 5.13. (See the other replies I made below.) I amended my post to reflect that information. Thanks!
: I agree with your assessments of Morde's problems, but not so much how to fix them. I feel that making him into some kind of aggro magnet might be the best option for him. Either spend your resources to kill him and then have a difficult time killing the other carries or ignore him and he wipes your team. Reducing how crippling hard cc is against his defense is probably a good way to help him fit that role better. I think making it so either shifting damage to his W or just adding damage in it would be a good way to do that since it can generate his shield while he is unable to generate it with his other abilities. Maybe increasing its AoE as well. This could also help reduce his need for cd items.
LOL that's always the problem in the world isn't it? Everyone agrees on what is wrong but everyone has a different way of going about fixing it. I definitely agree that maybe adding tenacity into his kit or something similar would allow him to have more control over how he uses his shield and when. I do think he has an interesting design but a binary play style currently. I'd like to see his skill cap increased.
: There is no way I would ever read a post that long. sorry
NBD. I'm aware that the majority of the community is not interested in these type of intricate theorycrafting / balancing discussions. But to be honest I see this Gameplay & Balance section of the forums to be more so a place for healthy discussion and suggestions rather than a place to spam QQ threads like a lot of people do. Thanks for stopping by anyway though :)
: This post is amazing. I feel like you have a good handle on Mordekaiser's playstyle, but there's a big problem you haven't addressed, and that's his counterplay and snowball power. Morde is a very binary champion, for three reasons. First is his item dependency. Morde has several weaknesses patched up by items, such as {{item:3152}} {{item:3116}} and {{item:3023}}. Morde is harder to play around as he buys his items more so than other champions, and that's mainly thanks to the second point: counterplay. Morde has no counterplay in his kit. Q and R are targeted, W can be avoided unless you're melee (lol), and E is instant and AoE. Additionally, Morde doesn't have a way of outplaying opponents either. Strategic use of W is all he really has (unless you think guessing when R will kill someone before running out is outplay), and that was added recently. The only other thing he really has is his third problem, his shield. It scales with damage dealt and resistances, and since his damage is unavoidable, you can't stop generation of his shield. Falling behind can easily end up with you out tanking the enemy, and it's even easier against champions with counterplay, which is another problem. That's why Morde needs to have counterplay shoved into his kit somewhere. A delay on E would do the job well enough, although theer are other possibilities. Anyways, now that's over, there's some other stuff in your post I want to nitpick (if I don't address something, then I agree with you): > So overall we can clearly see where Mordekaiser is lacking in comparison to other champions that use health as a resource. So something the balance team could potentially do to help him out would be to increase his base health regen, give him some sort of refund / healing mechanic on basic abilities, or give him some sort of incentive to operate at lower health either by making his kit more efficient at low hp or by giving him a steroid based on missing health. Of course it might be a bit much to do ALL of these things but they are certainly options to consider. His shield is his way of compensating for his health costs. It makes Morde one of the few manaless champions who cannot sit in lane forever. The shield is not as goo as pure HP, but that's encouraging Morde to do what he does best: lane bully. Typically he lacks the damage to actually fight against many champions, but that's because if he could he would be unstoppable, so gotta get counterplay in him. > This isn't a very deep topic just something worth mentioning. Most champions who are not limited by a resource such as Mana or Energy like to build CDR because it allows them to spam their abilities with no down side. _Mordekaiser has more trouble than other Mana-less champions when trying to access strong CDR items though._ Mordekaiser also is not given the same kit tools as other Mana-less Mages. Morde has limited CDR options, but he synergises with several items so much I find that more of a limiter than the lack of CDR itself. Also I'd argue that manaless champions aren't supposed to have robust CDR options anyway. > (his shield) This is fairly unique to Mordekaiser and has always been central to his theme and identity. It can be a bit contradictory though. This ability is very cool but the way it mathematically functions keeps Mordekaiser confined role wise and restricts his options. I agree with you here. Damage and resists are what his shield scales from, which pidgeonholes his itemization even more than it already is. Building tanky already sacrifices your damage, which is all Morde really has, so he doesn't need to be punished further. One thing I do like about his shield is that it generates better against multiple enemies, but more on that later. > One of his strengths is that he is a great pusher _BUT he cannot split push well because he has low mobility and his passive is weakest in 1v1 situations._ _This also means that during the laning phase after he has pushed his wave and cleared all the minions, he has far less ways of generating his defensive steroid and is even more exposed to the threat of a gank._ I think that generating shield on minions is a double edged sword. Honestly I think that removing it could possibly help Morde a lot balance wise. It would be a pretty big change though. > So the main issue with the way the shield functions is that it inhibits Mordekaiser players from building full tank if they want because they feel they need to build damage in order to utilize the passive shield. This is counter-intuitive to the concept of shields as they generally grant a flat health amount and you can increase how much effective health is actually given from shields by building Armor / MR. Damage giving more shield makes sense since it encourages him to build damage. It's a very unique thing he has. However, since you cannot avoid his damage, it's been very snowbally in the past. > **How to make Mordekaiser's shield a fun mechanic rather than a limiting and restricting function?** Spellvamp. Morde's dependency on spellvamp is a problem that may never really be solved. > **Unique and game changing Ultimate** Another snowballing mechanic. So much power is packed into this ability it's ridiculous. If it's not going to be destroyed I'd personally like to see the ability cut in half. It's like 2 ults in one, having a big damage/healing effect and then the ghost. Either cut one of the parts out, or weaken both parts so that the total power is roughly equal to a standard R. > Well it is clear that Mordekaiser struggles to sustain his ability costs early game. So improve this somehow. Maybe increase his base health regen, grant some form of cost refund on kill for one of his abilities, or give him some sort of healing component on an ability. Using the shield to fight the enemy is the intended use. On other champs, they would lose health, but Morde loses his shield. What Morde doesn't have is the ability to play passively. Right now it's an important balancing factor, but if he becomes more healthy this could be changed. > Alternatively (or additionally), give him some sort of steroid to better function at lower HP. Maybe increase his AP per % of missing health, grant him additional CDR per % of missing health, or make his abilities cost a % of current health rather than a flat amount so that their costs go down as he gets lower HP. That's a dangerous road to go down. I doubt that anyone would try to play at low health for the bonuses (safety first after all) so it would just let him make clutch plays, when he already has his shield to do that. > Buffing his base health regen would certainly open up his itemization options as building additional health regen items would have a higher base stat to work with. Players might be able to actually make choices regarding whether they want to sustain via dealing AoE damage or if they want to focus on building defensive to help better protect their other carry. I doubt it. I don't see any of his core items becoming less useful with simple number changes. > As mentioned, his shield mechanic is a bit clunky and there are various ways to clean it up. Give it a flat amount per enemy hit in order to leave item choices in the hands of players OR give it a small AP ratio and % max / % bonus HP ratio to give incentive for mixed Bruiser-Mage builds. The AP ratio should definitely stay, but a HP ratio would be great, making HP items more favorable.
I love the discussion points you bring up! I 100% agree that he is pretty binary at the moment. That's a bit why his power budget is set so low. They don't want to give him too much funding when he isn't a high skill cap champion, isn't gated by mana, and doesn't have a problem landing his spells. I would much rather Riot give him interesting and dynamic mechanics that raise the skill cap and give him similar tools to other champions of his archetype, resource system, or play style and in return balance out his game play so that he doesn't just over power opponents. I'm hopeful for what can come of his reworks. I do enjoy your point of view in the idea that Mana-less champions aren't supposed to have good CDR options. They aren't gated by mana so Riot may be attempting to limit their spamability by not giving them many good CDR options. That is a perfectly fair point. The only issue I have with that line of thinking then is that Riot isn't doing such a good job of limiting other Mana-less champions from building CDR and I wish they did as good of a job for those champs at gating their CDR purchases. For instance Rumble has a similar problem as he doesn't generally build CDR in any of his successful builds but his abilities have more utility than Morde's do so that is a trade off for having a longer cool down. Rumble gets shields, speed ups, slows, etc. while Morde really only has damage. This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Mana-less champion base. Most of them have mobility spells, utility on their abilities, or CC in exchange for being gated by few CDR options. Morde doesn't necessarily get that trade off. Again, I agree with your point about his ultimate eating up most of his power budget. Others have also brought this point up. It makes the rest of Mordekaiser's kit much less interesting. Make the ult not as strong and give him some power elsewhere in his kit. That's really what Riot should be aiming for. > That's a dangerous road to go down. I doubt that anyone would try to play at low health for the bonuses (safety first after all) so it would just let him make clutch plays, when he already has his shield to do that. Plenty of other champions have steroids that players intentionally get low health to use. Jungle Aatrox clears with his W on damage mode until he gets low health and can activate the increased heal when under 50% HP. Olaf players often let themselves get low HP in order to gain the AS steroid to improve clear speeds or dueling power. Even in his current state Morde and other champions like Vlad and Mundo may intentionally make themselves appear low health in order to bait enemies into fighting them prior to healing, popping ults, or putting shields up, etc. So overall I would have to disagree that players aren't willing to function at low HP. I believe they are definitely willing to as long as they get some sort of incentive in a champion's kit to do so. I definitely enjoyed hearing your opinions, though I think you were analyzing each suggestion individually rather than pairing any of them together or associating them with rework / kit changes. I'm aware that none of these changes by themselves would drastically change Morde but I think a mix and match of these ideas associated with some game play changes, increased skill cap, more dynamic abilities, etc. could yield a much more successful champion post-rework. Thanks for your comment!
Phaetox (NA)
: To move on to your comment about his split pushing. He clears waves extremely fast. But when we look at top tier split pushers they all have a few things in common. They may have some sort of tower killing steroid such as Nasus Q, TF's Lich Bane / Pick a Card, Irelia w/ a TForce, etc. They likely have some form of escape or mobility steroid: Tryndamere, Jax, Aatrox, Shyvana, Singed, Zed, Riven, Teemo, Shen, the list goes on. Most of these champions are also AD so that they can kill the tower faster except in the case of a select few. For example Singed is more of a proxy champ than anything. Mordekaiser only has wave clear. He does not have an escape or mobility steroid in order to avoid being collapsed on. He has no way of killing towers faster than any other AP champion unless you purchase Lich Bane. And the fact still remains that your shield is worse in a 1v1 than it is in a team fight or around minions. If you are split pushing versus a defender and you kill all of the enemy minions, you can no longer be the aggressor because there isn't much to regenerate your shield. Most of this other split pushers would walk over Morde 1v1 except for a few that are simply just bad match ups. Morde is a better split pusher than some champs due to his wave clear but he is certainly not a top tier split pusher with any sort of steroid to accomplish that goal. Pros would never pick him into a comp when they need a split pusher over someone who does the job better.
Though I will 100% agree with you that Morde's ult probably allocates a lot of his power budget because if he does get a proper target as a ghost it becomes incredibly powerful. So they may have made the rest of his kit lacking in order to balance that aspect out. But nowadays it's harder than ever to get an enemy ADC as a ghost unless you have a Zed or Akali or something also on your team. Most of the time now you're more so aiming to get that Irelia / GP / Shyvana ghost or what have you.
Phaetox (NA)
: As for him not needing CDR it depends on what you're trying to play him as. If you want to be a DPS threat then you definitely want to get CDR. A long time ago a user by the name of Varnagas calculated [AP Scaling per Second](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Varnagas/AP_scaling_per_second) and the math basically is to say that if a champion gains a 40% increase in ap per second from 0% cdr to 40% cdr then CDR is a stronger stat per gold spent than AP for that champion up until you hit CDR cap. Mordekaiser was calculated to have a 66.67% increase from his base AP/sec to his max AP/sec at 40% CDR. Though to be fair all of these were calculated 3 years ago, Riot tends to maintain this common ratio on many champions who don't have deceptive / dynamic ratios that change based on how long you leave abilities on or something of the sort. So it is pretty safe to assume that CDR impacts his DPS more than AP for the amount of stats you can obtain with the same gold. Now the only problem with this is that it aims to discuss sustained damage, not burst damage. If you are playing Morde as a burst mage you certainly don't care much about CDR other than wanting your ultimate to be off cool down for fights when you need it. And of course if you are building him tank then CDR is generally easier to obtain attached to tank items than AP is. So the context remains pretty important. I'm not saying you always need CDR, just that depending on what type of character Riot wants to rework him as it could be very important to consider.
To move on to your comment about his split pushing. He clears waves extremely fast. But when we look at top tier split pushers they all have a few things in common. They may have some sort of tower killing steroid such as Nasus Q, TF's Lich Bane / Pick a Card, Irelia w/ a TForce, etc. They likely have some form of escape or mobility steroid: Tryndamere, Jax, Aatrox, Shyvana, Singed, Zed, Riven, Teemo, Shen, the list goes on. Most of these champions are also AD so that they can kill the tower faster except in the case of a select few. For example Singed is more of a proxy champ than anything. Mordekaiser only has wave clear. He does not have an escape or mobility steroid in order to avoid being collapsed on. He has no way of killing towers faster than any other AP champion unless you purchase Lich Bane. And the fact still remains that your shield is worse in a 1v1 than it is in a team fight or around minions. If you are split pushing versus a defender and you kill all of the enemy minions, you can no longer be the aggressor because there isn't much to regenerate your shield. Most of this other split pushers would walk over Morde 1v1 except for a few that are simply just bad match ups. Morde is a better split pusher than some champs due to his wave clear but he is certainly not a top tier split pusher with any sort of steroid to accomplish that goal. Pros would never pick him into a comp when they need a split pusher over someone who does the job better.
Phaetox (NA)
: I'm glad you brought up the points that you did! I'd love to try to explain my reasoning behind my statements a bit more though. I feel like we actually agree on more than this reflects so let me try to put things in a different context or rephrase them for you. :) So I put a few disclaimers around my post about not doing ALL of these changes because that would simply make him OP. It's not that I only want to see buffs to him. It's just I think he needs to be adjusted to reflect the type of character he is. He is the ONLY character who uses health as a resource who doesn't have some sort of innate refund or healing mechanic. So I think it's important for Riot to standardize things like that because it just seems unfair and makes him more difficult to balance. You're perfectly correct in saying if you give him some of these tools without taking anything away he would be over powering. What I'm suggesting is mix and match these changes and adjust the numbers accordingly. I think it's important to increase the champion's skill cap and dynamic play styles by giving him more interactive mechanics. So give him some form of rewarding refund / sustain mechanic and then counter balance that with a different adjustment. So Health Regen is a stat that you don't always FEEL because it only really shows itself for a short period of time early game and if you are at full health you would never notice it. But if we actually do the math and compare his pre-nerf health sustain and his post-nerf health sustain there is actually a huge difference. So bear with me... Q cost went from 25 at rank 1 to 20 at rank 1 w/ an 8 sec CD W cost went from 26 at rank 1 to 20 at rank 1 w/ a 20 sec CD Base Health Regen went from 8.37 to 3.37 per 5 So I'm going to try to skew the math IN FAVOR of the post-change numbers. Realistically, the old health regen actually wins out by a lot more than what this is going to represent because this math will assume that you are always using your abilities the millisecond they come off CD nonstop spamming. Which we all know isn't actually the case. You may have to wait for a minion wave to get to lane, you may want to wait for more minions to position on top of each other so you get a bigger shield per hit, or you may try to hold you abilities until your opponent mispositions so that you can hit both the minions and harass your opponent at the same time. But for the sake of argument I'll show that even in the situation that most favors the changes, it was still a nerf. So the best way to look at this is Q was changed to cost **5 less per 8** and W was changed to cost **6 less per 20** but in order to put these in the same unit we have to consider Q to cost **100 less per 160** and W to cost **48 less per 160** so all in all you're using **148 less per 60** which we can reduce down to the health regen standard unit as using **4.625 less per 5** So you're saving an average of 4.625 health every 5 seconds BUT you are gaining 5 less health per 5 from health regen. So 5 - 4.625 = **0.375 less health per 5**. _This is a decrease in sustain. Now like I said this looks like a minuscule amount that you wouldn't notice but in all reality you're actually losing out on a lot more sustain because you aren't spamming your abilities every millisecond that they are coming off CD._ I'll reply to the other points in a separate reply post though I don't want each one to look too long plus I'd like to isolate this math.
As for him not needing CDR it depends on what you're trying to play him as. If you want to be a DPS threat then you definitely want to get CDR. A long time ago a user by the name of Varnagas calculated [AP Scaling per Second](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Varnagas/AP_scaling_per_second) and the math basically is to say that if a champion gains a 40% increase in ap per second from 0% cdr to 40% cdr then CDR is a stronger stat per gold spent than AP for that champion up until you hit CDR cap. Mordekaiser was calculated to have a 66.67% increase from his base AP/sec to his max AP/sec at 40% CDR. Though to be fair all of these were calculated 3 years ago, Riot tends to maintain this common ratio on many champions who don't have deceptive / dynamic ratios that change based on how long you leave abilities on or something of the sort. So it is pretty safe to assume that CDR impacts his DPS more than AP for the amount of stats you can obtain with the same gold. Now the only problem with this is that it aims to discuss sustained damage, not burst damage. If you are playing Morde as a burst mage you certainly don't care much about CDR other than wanting your ultimate to be off cool down for fights when you need it. And of course if you are building him tank then CDR is generally easier to obtain attached to tank items than AP is. So the context remains pretty important. I'm not saying you always need CDR, just that depending on what type of character Riot wants to rework him as it could be very important to consider.
: Some things I wanted to say in response to several parts of your post (divided by topic). Using health as resource 1. If he could regain health as a built in feature to his abilities he would be nearly unbeatable during the laning phase outside of being continuously ganked when he has pushed lane. 2. I honestly did not see much change to my laning phase as morde after the hp/5 reduction, only difference was that I would lose health slightly faster as I bullied my laning opponent before my first back for a revolver. 3. No real comment here. Not using mana With the way that I usually build Morde I never feel that trying to obtain max cdr or nearly any is necessary to performing my duties for my team. However, as someone else noted, it is not a large loss to simply buy items that have a wasted stat on it to achieve good cdr. Would having more items that were fully efficient for morde and had cdr be nice? Yes. Would they be necessary? Not really. Melee with short-range abilities I would love if riot changed the speed steroid they gave his w to be less restricted or said steroid being brought about some other way. Also, you should remember that morde’s shield is essentially flat damage reduction. He can have it at least partially up any time he can deal damage with his spells, which is pretty powerful. Shield from passive I must disagree with you about Morde being bad at split pushing. As long as the rest of the team is doing their part and the enemy does not have someone fed enough to essentially count as two people, then you will typically force the enemy to send one to two people to deal with you. You are guaranteed to start whatever fight at full shields from minions which is a plus. Either they send one person that is not able to handle Morde, one person who can but is usually needed to win the team fight, or send two people and almost automatically lose the team fight (there are exceptions of course, but the above three options are the ones I usually encounter). Also, as I mentioned earlier, Morde’s shield is essentially flat damage reduction and is always a factor throughout a whole fight when facing him because, unlike most other shields, it is never on cooldown and does not time out except by the decay rate. Ult I personally just don’t like this ability much because of reasons you have already stated. It simply eats up a lot of Mordekaiser’s power budget because of a best outcome that may never be achieved during a whole match. I would prefer that Riot change the ability to something new.
I'm glad you brought up the points that you did! I'd love to try to explain my reasoning behind my statements a bit more though. I feel like we actually agree on more than this reflects so let me try to put things in a different context or rephrase them for you. :) So I put a few disclaimers around my post about not doing ALL of these changes because that would simply make him OP. It's not that I only want to see buffs to him. It's just I think he needs to be adjusted to reflect the type of character he is. He is the ONLY character who uses health as a resource who doesn't have some sort of innate refund or healing mechanic. So I think it's important for Riot to standardize things like that because it just seems unfair and makes him more difficult to balance. You're perfectly correct in saying if you give him some of these tools without taking anything away he would be over powering. What I'm suggesting is mix and match these changes and adjust the numbers accordingly. I think it's important to increase the champion's skill cap and dynamic play styles by giving him more interactive mechanics. So give him some form of rewarding refund / sustain mechanic and then counter balance that with a different adjustment. So Health Regen is a stat that you don't always FEEL because it only really shows itself for a short period of time early game and if you are at full health you would never notice it. But if we actually do the math and compare his pre-nerf health sustain and his post-nerf health sustain there is actually a huge difference. So bear with me... Q cost went from 25 at rank 1 to 20 at rank 1 w/ an 8 sec CD W cost went from 26 at rank 1 to 20 at rank 1 w/ a 20 sec CD Base Health Regen went from 8.37 to 3.37 per 5 So I'm going to try to skew the math IN FAVOR of the post-change numbers. Realistically, the old health regen actually wins out by a lot more than what this is going to represent because this math will assume that you are always using your abilities the millisecond they come off CD nonstop spamming. Which we all know isn't actually the case. You may have to wait for a minion wave to get to lane, you may want to wait for more minions to position on top of each other so you get a bigger shield per hit, or you may try to hold you abilities until your opponent mispositions so that you can hit both the minions and harass your opponent at the same time. But for the sake of argument I'll show that even in the situation that most favors the changes, it was still a nerf. So the best way to look at this is Q was changed to cost **5 less per 8** and W was changed to cost **6 less per 20** but in order to put these in the same unit we have to consider Q to cost **100 less per 160** and W to cost **48 less per 160** so all in all you're using **148 less per 60** which we can reduce down to the health regen standard unit as using **4.625 less per 5** So you're saving an average of 4.625 health every 5 seconds BUT you are gaining 5 less health per 5 from health regen. So 5 - 4.625 = **0.375 less health per 5**. _This is a decrease in sustain. Now like I said this looks like a minuscule amount that you wouldn't notice but in all reality you're actually losing out on a lot more sustain because you aren't spamming your abilities every millisecond that they are coming off CD._ I'll reply to the other points in a separate reply post though I don't want each one to look too long plus I'd like to isolate this math.
: Great post!!, I enjoyed it alot. Morde is my fav champ thematically and iv tired all ways possible to play him optimally. i agree with most of your suggestions, however my biggest problem is the ult. yeah its unique but its just bad you either kill the target and win the fight and the ghost is useless, kill it and then die because you don't have mobility therefore the ghost is a waste, or of course when your target doesn't die and your are just useless. the only benefit for me is the sustain it gives me which is very underwhelming for master of METAL!! i want the ult to be a (league Of Legends suitable) Doom Ult, something like a curse or a cripple, cast it on an enemy carry and screw them up, not CC but something that would disable them. maybe something like: "enemy will be cursed for 10 sec, during the duration they will be silenced for 1 second every other second" so basically 5 silences 1 second each with 1 second between them. (or make it 0.5 second idk) cuz a Doom ult 15 sec silence is insane. anyway Morde needs an ult that would make him worth picking in a team comp and doesn't rely on him building damage, also help him during 1v1 fights. something off topic here, i know he is in a desperate need for a VU that he wont be getting any time soon but i would love if they increased his size alil (most of the times i buy {{item:2138}} just for its 25% size increase which makes him look perfect!!{{champion:82}} )
lol yeah I remember when they increased his character model size xD I wouldn't mind another buff to that though lol
Wajster (NA)
: You don't even Morde tho. Just saying. Like the post tho.
I've played the game since beta so yeah I haven't played Morde recently but I used to spam him back in the early days. Plus I literally play every champion in the game so I don't have a lot of games on almost anyone in particular. Also it's the same premise that analysts and coaches don't necessarily have to be good players themselves they just have to understand the game, be good at math, know how to strategize, know how to improve communication in the work place, etc. You don't have to main a champion to look at all of the statistics and see where problems are. But that's also why I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions on this topic. Because even if a champion has problems on paper people may love certain things about their favorite champ that they want to stay intact. So I think that's important.
: I agree 90% with this. I just wanted to talk about the incentive (or lack of) to fight at low HP. Mordekaiser is a great lure in this case. If well managed you can capitalize your shield because since his lack of selfheal enemies will tryo to kill you if in even numbers of combatants. I really got lots of kills this way both pre and post 6. But is hard to deal with it expecially because once the fight is over you are open to easy ninja kills. Anyway, he is up for a gameplay rework which is heavier than Skarner's and Garen, SO I don't believe Riot will add our suggestions to their ideas right now. Lets just hope for the best.
I would agree that you can bait people with "deceptive" health due to his shield but that isn't necessarily an innate steroid. Just a player tactic. Most other champions that use health as a resource can use the same principal to bait people in and then heal / regen / over power them with whatever steroid makes them stronger at fighting at low hp or whatever.
: You lost me at "manaless mages like to build cdr to spam their abilities" katarina rushes cdr? akali rushes cdr?Kennen? vlad?
That's actually not at all what I claim. What I specifically say in the post is: > Most champions who are not limited by a resource such as Mana or Energy like to build CDR because it allows them to spam their abilities with no down side. And if you continue to read in the post I go on to talk about how Katarina and Akali are given tools within their kit to where they don't need to build CDR. They have resets, something Mordekaiser is not given. > Katarina and Akali do not have innate CC but they do have innate reset mechanics to compensate for not being able to easily access CDR items. So other Mana-less Mages can either do more with their abilities when they are off cool down due to CC **or have a way to bypass having to purchase CDR.**
: Hi, read your thread and I like some of your suggestions. What i don't like is the idea of turning him from a fighter-mage to a tank. I also like the idea of him wihtout CC. Let me explain. 1. Mordekaiser as a fighter: Morde's personality and kit wise does not come off very "tanky" imo. When I think tank, I think someone who leads others into battle and protects the backline while still charging and fighting off all those who come near. Think Sion. Sion charges in, does his combo then tries to protect his team and cause as much disruption as he can. Morde however does none of this. Morde picks his target, waits for the opening while simulationiously wailing on the enemy team, and kills and brings back his target as a shade to fight for him. To me, Mordekaiser is a general who does his own thing and commands his victim to do his bidding for him. He does not protect others (you can make the argument with his W but whenever I cast it, I see it more as me doing damage and gaining some shield than protecting). He does not dive right in. He does not cause disruption. He breaks the enemy's will and helps reign in chaos and carnage. As well as the way I currently build him (boots, Lichbane, hat, Liandry's/Void, SV, ZH, last item depending on enemy team) does not reflect the tank aspect you wish to create. Morde generates a shield through damage. And through damage he shrugs off most of what comes at him. This gets into my next point. 2. Morde without CC: Is a unique aspect of him that I find fun. Morde punishes those who oppose him with brute force, and makes them gold starved as he has them pushed. Think about how much less his damage output would become should CC be added onto his kit somewhere? While this could be please to you. To me and some others, this would not. CC does not reflect him, nor should it. I don't need a stun to kill the enemy so I can ghost them and turn the tables. I just need my damage and maybe some help from teammates to secure that kill. Slows, stuns, silences, etc.. I wouldn't have it. However, what I wouldn't mind is a speed boost of sorts like how they gave his W that magnet thing but to be able to be done without the use of an ally. I realize this would sacrifice some power, but not as much in the way that a stun and whatnot would. One part I didn't see you add was how his shield constantly drains and doesn't remain for a period of time after combat is done like Aatrox's blood well or Tryn's fury. Unless I missed that. Man I am tired.
To clarify, I don't want Riot to rework him to where he can only be played as a tank. I want them to balance him so that a player can make the choice of how they want to play him. Being able to say well in this game, in this team comp, against this lane opponent, against this enemy team comp I can build X and Y items. I would love to see him be viable in both roles. His original design was as a Tank until items got removed from the game and meta shifts hurt that tank meta. Then he switched to burst mage until DFG got removed and has since been built as a Bruiser-Mage. I think he has had a strong identity in all three of these roles over his time as a champion so I would like to see his kit balanced to where you can viably spec into any of these archetypes. He definitely has some core problems in trying to achieve any of these goals though as outlined.
Phaetox (NA)
: I mention Twin Shadows in the post and the active is okay but it's not a very slot efficient item. Luden's gives more AP and Movement speed though you don't get CDR or the active. As long as you're purchasing Rylai's though you don't really need Twin Shadow's active. Mordekaiser isn't supposed to be the engage in pretty much any team comp that he fits into. The CDR is nice but it's only 10% but if you're aiming to have Boots, WotA, Rylai's, Liandry's, and Twin Shadows then you only have room for one more item. Deathcap, Void Staff, Luden's, Zhonya's, etc. all make for a difficult decision. It's honestly just better to drop Twin Shadows to make better use of the item slot.
Though I will agree that the item is cheap and usable. I just don't think it's a strong enough power spike to justify postponing your real damage core and as a late game purchase rather than early / mid it just doesn't give as much as other options.
: You forget about Twin Shadow's active. It gives a free from of soft CC by way of a long lasting, heavy slow. It also gives MS. It gives CDR, and it gives AP. It increased his damage and shield by a rescpectable amount, increases his kill securing potential by allowing him to viably chase the enemy after they run, and it gives him the ability to run away in the event of getting caught out. It gives him everything he needs to shore up his weaknesses after buying two items (besides boots). His mid game after getting this item can't be called strong, but it becomes managable. And placing ignite +ult in the mid-late game after getting your rylai's+lyandri's should kill most champions at about half health, lifesteal or no. This gives you a free ghost in many seiging scenarios, and lets you win the game by snowballing a won teamfight. If I were to suggest one change in Mordekaiser, it would be to let his abilty HP costs subtract from his shield, so you aren't given a hard limit on your laning time as long as you use abilities, to ALLOW the viability of ignite as opposed to teleport.
I mention Twin Shadows in the post and the active is okay but it's not a very slot efficient item. Luden's gives more AP and Movement speed though you don't get CDR or the active. As long as you're purchasing Rylai's though you don't really need Twin Shadow's active. Mordekaiser isn't supposed to be the engage in pretty much any team comp that he fits into. The CDR is nice but it's only 10% but if you're aiming to have Boots, WotA, Rylai's, Liandry's, and Twin Shadows then you only have room for one more item. Deathcap, Void Staff, Luden's, Zhonya's, etc. all make for a difficult decision. It's honestly just better to drop Twin Shadows to make better use of the item slot.
Nefas (NA)
: I certainly understand what you mean and even play Trundle myself. But I don't see this approach to Morde's ult, however efficient/effective, in the real spirit of the ult (pardon the pun) - the high point of the ult (at least I think for most people) is supposed to be killing the opponent and turning a fight into a 6v4, not stealing health. Do you follow what I mean? I just don't think that Morde will be in a good place without a lot of tweaks to his placestyle and severe constraints on his burst for his ult to stay.
One of the most successful uses of Morde ult I've had recently was using it on a fed enemy gangplank who was diving my backline. I used ignite to mitigate the heal on his Oranges and stacked my ult onto him. This healed me for more than if I had ulti'd the enemy ADC, made it easier for my allies to kill the biggest immediate threat to them, and once I got him as a ghost the ghost had much more movement speed than if I had ultid an ADC so was able to catch up to the remaining enemies and slow them via Rylai's procs on the ghost's damage. This led to me getting a 3v5 Pentakill. Definitely more rewarding when used as anti-dive since I didn't have to struggle to chase the target to put damage onto them and it increased my sustain vastly more as well. The "Domino" style of team fighting is pretty dominant in the meta at the moment.
: The thing is with Skarner and why people may find him weak is cause of how unpopular he is and his overall winrate isn't stupidly high. As stupid as this sounds but people need to play more games on Skarner if they want to have a good winrate. Althought he's pretty simple I pretty much know him inside out and thats why I have a 82% winrate on him. It's all in the playstyle and unfortunately a majority of people are playing him wrong in my opinion.
I agree I think Skarner is great at the moment.
Phaetox (NA)
: Unless he takes the damage before his shield goes up, or if you fight not around minions, or if they just simply stay out of range to get hit by your trades which isn't hard while watching you spam your health bar trying to compete in wave clear. He does have innate strengths but you're over rating the current state of his passive shield within his kit.
For example if they are ranged like Xerath and you use abilities to build up a shield to block Xerath Q, sure you mitigate how much damage you take by accepting the health cost in exchange for blocking most of the ability damage but you're still losing more health than Xerath because he is obviously not in range of your damage.
: He may not have sustain but his passive make trades basically free, while the other champions will still get low on the trades plus the cost of using the abilities.
Unless he takes the damage before his shield goes up, or if you fight not around minions, or if they just simply stay out of range to get hit by your trades which isn't hard while watching you spam your health bar trying to compete in wave clear. He does have innate strengths but you're over rating the current state of his passive shield within his kit.
: Please dont change Skarner too much
Honestly the buffs to Machete's mana regen helped Skarner, Hecarim, and Eve out a lot with their Q-spam oriented clears. I think Riot should give Skarner a bit more time to resurface. Other tanks got nerfed so it's only a matter of time before the tank meta draws out Skarner, Hecarim jungle, Zac, and other perfectly viable tanks that just didn't shine as bright in comparison to pre-nerf Sejuani and the like.
Phaetox (NA)
: Actually that Yi statement is a misconception. I have plenty of friends who spam Yi in diamond+ solo queue who only build sated + BotRK offensively and then build defensive items after that. He doesn't really need any other damage items to succeed. Other examples: Save goes for Spirit Visage + Randuin's. http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/1976850878/2580719 Froggen get's a Black Cleaver and Randuin's. Though TBC may also be offensive it does have 400 health on it so it is a mixed offensive / defensive item. http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/2183462159/19531813 Even the build with the highest win % (a mix of what is most popular and what is most efficient) includes a Randuin's. http://champion.gg/champion/MasterYi Plenty of people build Banshee's, Frozen Mallet, etc. on him.
Another example: Crumbz building Black Cleaver and Frozen Mallet. While these items do grant AD they are certainly not full offensive builds as they grant a ton of health. http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1828326114/20239565
Nefas (NA)
: I'd like to see Morde's ult and Yorick's ult both be removed from those champs, combined into one ult (with the different effects being cast on ally, cast on enemy) and then put onto a new support whose kit is based around buffing/debuffing a single champion. Most of the power of Morde's ult isn't available until the target is dead, which will always push him towards burst damage. On a non-damage/non carry champ who needs more cooperation it would be a lot healthier. A new Morde ult could a be a limited time steroid boost to shield/ap boost from %missing health or some sort of fighting steroid which could push him more into a sustained DPS bruiser role.
I actually think Morde's ult has a lot of functionality in the aspect that it's healing component becomes immensely better when casting it on tanky targets. For this reason I've actually considered using Morde's ult in a more similar way to Trundle's ult. You ult whoever will give you the most sustain, while maximizing the fact that it is % max HP damage, and making the enemy tank line easier to eat through for your other carries.
Jbels (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kLdBjzn1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-31T19:58:47.662+0000) > > Hai won two Shyvana Devourer games in a row from C9. Also Yi is forced to build all damage to do anything in Teamfights. Shyvana can build tank after Devourer and Bork and still wreck teamfights Agreed. The way I feel about characters who are written into walls, plot-wise, by writers, I feel there are champions like Kayle and Kassadin who are destined to hit a wall and stop. Remember how amazing Sion was when he came out? But he was TOO amazing, so they nerfed him, and now he barely sees play anymore. If there's one thing I loathe, it's champions that are made unviable for the sake of the game being healthier (Looking at you, Kha'zix)
Actually that Yi statement is a misconception. I have plenty of friends who spam Yi in diamond+ solo queue who only build sated + BotRK offensively and then build defensive items after that. He doesn't really need any other damage items to succeed. Other examples: Save goes for Spirit Visage + Randuin's. http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/1976850878/2580719 Froggen get's a Black Cleaver and Randuin's. Though TBC may also be offensive it does have 400 health on it so it is a mixed offensive / defensive item. http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/2183462159/19531813 Even the build with the highest win % (a mix of what is most popular and what is most efficient) includes a Randuin's. http://champion.gg/champion/MasterYi Plenty of people build Banshee's, Frozen Mallet, etc. on him.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kLdBjzn1,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-07-31T20:57:07.646+0000) > > The main issue isn't that the item is overpowered, it's the fact that in ranked and normals, alot of people think it can turn the turds that Yi and Warwick are into gold, and they lose their teams games because of that mentality http://champion.gg/champion/Warwick/Jungle A real turd, that Warwick.
But Warwick has always had obnoxious win rates in high elo. (Remember champion.gg only calculates plat+ games). Sated Devourer doesn't make him any more annoying than Feral Flare or the old Devourer did. His win rate only went up by like 2% since Sated came out it's just his play rate that has gone up because people got reminded of how toxic he is.
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Phaetox

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