Light Up (NA)
: Quinn E Blast Cone Plant Bug
Wow, that is one heck of a bug there, it's pretty funny too.
: Can't forget Renekton, Quinn and Jayce.
I really need to try lethality Renekton bursting people with W & Q with him is so fun. Also legit have you SEEN it on Wukong? It's absolutely disgusting
: What if more Marksman had ammo?
> [{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yt2QFs3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-03T15:19:59.017+0000) > >I also noticed people love playing Ezreal, the marksman who mainly uses spell casts to boost his damage. Even passives like Lucian's are good because he doesn't get his full DPS without using abilities correctly. How do you feel about {{champion:133}} 's passive?; since it also needs her to use abilities correctly for full dps.
SSJTribe (NA)
: I used to build {{item:3078}} first item on Quinn, as the AS was nice, the huge damage on E (or Q)+sheen+passive, and the phage passive was a great way to chase people down when you couldn't quite burst them. Is that not really a thing anymore?
I usually go for {{item:3078}} 2nd or 3rd on her, I haven't been going it 1st item in a long time.
: On a somewhat (un)related topic - as a Quinn main do you prefer lethality over crit? I've had better success with crit so far (damn shyv wave-clear), but I haven't tried her lethality build after it was buffed. What do you think?
I switch it up depending on the enemy team comp as long as I am in top lane personally, I'd say I go lethality about 65% of the time & crit about 35% of the time in the current meta. While when I am playing her mid, I am almost always go the lethality build.
Ralanr (NA)
: Riot, how do you hope juggernauts will fair with reworked defensive itemization?
Personally I think the best choice might be to do is something like the way health regen items work off base stats for Armor & MR (and maybe Health as well) so that they can tune it better so that defensive items intended to be tank items aren't universally the same value on every champion compared to basically every other stat in the game besides mana and boots and riot could leave some exceptions {{item:3102}} or {{item:3026}} for example that are intended as generalist defensive choices. Thus tanks could benefit more from tank items due to their base stats than non-tanks going tank builds.
: Personally I don't think Quinn needs any changes at all, I'd like riot to stop trying to shift around her role and realize that she's never going to be optimal as a marksman botlane with a kit that inherently bullies and disengages melee champs easily. I think that's fine though, that's her niche and honestly even then if you build ninja tabi she shouldn't really be able to bully you hard out of lane anymore anyways. Out of lane she transfers into a burst assassin against squishies, which once again is fine, but her power is a symptom of them over-buffing lethality a bit, not the champ herself.
I am still not sure leaving her as is in becoming a mid-late game burst assassin is the right choice personally, since it has the potential to be rather oppressive at times especially with {{item:3147}} being as it is currently. However I think her kit is fine and is definitely fit for solo lane rather duo and I don't really want to see that changed. So rather than that if riot wanted to change I think looking to tweak things in a way to encourage her to build for more sustained damage late game rather burst with Crit/AS adjustments while trying to discourage lethality builds on her, I'd be ok with that personally. Though I am not sure how it would work out since fervor became much less practical on her compared to last season after the stacks gained from abilities was removed it made it more difficult to go this route for Quinn.
Rozair (NA)
: why is {{champion:131}} not in this list?
She just needs a game play update (I suspect we'll get hers when the "divers" class update happens) visual wise she's great.
: To people who ONLY/Mostly play norms: Why?
I've shifted to mostly playing league with friends and our skill ranges aren't exactly the same, so I usually just play unranked with them we do try ranked together some each season, and I play ranked some solo just not much usually I just lack the motivation or willingness to grind to beyond gold because nothing really encourages its beyond badges and stuff. If ranked had a different rewards structure I'd probably feel more compelled to play it.
: > [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=63QAaEFA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T23:43:36.345+0000) > > Well, I can't really agree with that (that Quinn's mobility is unhealthy) especially since you consider Talon as healthy. Standalone, it's broken as shit. But given that's the extent of his mobility, being tied and limited to fresh terrain, it's healthy because he utilizes a niche that cannot be abused because of terrain's permanent nature. > Yes, he has to plan his route to be able to use it as an escape. Or to chase. Or roam properly. > Meanwhile Quinn's Ult: Costs alot of mana so her use of it is restricted and has no value as an escape. If TF's ult has value as an escape, then I''ll be damned if Quinn's isn't. Also, the mana cost isn't that bad because her mana pool is suited for multiple uses of it and she has low mana costs for a pool her size. >When Quinn arrived her roaming destination, she can't escape from there as long as there are enemies nearby. Because she has to channel the ability. That's why it's roaming, not escape. >Meanwhile Talon's E is a roaming tool, an escape and has no mana cost from the start. Talon's E costs him his mobility every time he uses it. His base MS is also pitiful to compensate. He has windows of weakness, when he cannot use his E to vault over a wall to safety. It's finite. >Yes, Quinn's ult doesn't have mana costs at lvl 16, but Talon has access to manaless roaming AND escapes with lvl 3. Quinn's ult may cost mana, but the value of the ability far outweighs the cost after several seconds of traveling. Given she has range and safety while on the attack, that kind of mobility is unfair. She uses it to chase, roam, and in many cases escape. Slap that ultimate on any champion. Global, free mobility on a non-existent cooldown is never a good idea.
>Also, the mana cost isn't that bad because her mana pool is suited for multiple uses of it and she has low mana costs for a pool her size. Late game yes, early game not so much as it costs a 100 mana from 6-10 that's a **LOT**. Additionally you're ignoring the weakness that is pinning her down in lane so she can't make use of it.
: > [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=63QAaEFA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T21:27:32.714+0000) > > {{champion:245}} 2 forms of instant CC? I think you messed up something there. Ekko has 1 CC (his stun) and it is alot, but not instant. It is one of the most telegraphed CC's in the game. I meant mobility. Thanks for correcting me. > {{champion:133}} Quinn gives up an in combat ultimate for that skill. Other marksman have other strong tools as ultimates. Quinn's ult also deals some damage, and her basic abilities are much stronger to compensate. > {{champion:29}} {{champion:21}} Insane AoE damage. While having to stand relatively still to utilize them. > {{champion:222}} Global execute. *skillshot > {{champion:202}} Great for executing and making picks. Also great for making yourself food because once he ults there's no running. > {{champion:22}} Global pick tool. *skillshot > You get the idea. Quinn's ult is giving her no additional strength, mobility is literally the only thing it provides. Keeping that in mind, I think it is fine. I'm not arguing what the ult gives her or not. I'm saying that her global presence with infinite speed-buffs is unhealthy.
>I'm not arguing what the ult gives her or not. I'm saying that her global presence with infinite speed-buffs is unhealthy. So Mobility boots and Lethality is bad design and unhealthy too? Since you apparently hate out of combat speeds w/o a duration for some reason.
: Good and bad examples of mobility in the game.
>Bad example: Near-global presence on a 2 second cooldown. I disagree on this one only, it's **heavily **mana-gated early game (late game she needs it since she's not very good at straight 5 vs 5s) and unlike Talon's she can't use it during combat since any damage breaks the channel further more Quinn gives up her ultimate for it so she essentially has 2 combat spells and no combat ult while talon has 2 combat spells and combat ult. Also it has a 5 second CD :P (3 static + 2 channel).
: I don't like the spires, but they did solve some issues with him that would, at the very least, need to be addressed with any new rework that wasn't a MASSIVE overhaul. * He was either way too mana hungry in the jungle, or basically didn't have mana costs. No in between. * He either cleared the jungle way too easily and steamrolled champions as well or couldn't function in the jungle. No in between. Spires DID successfully address that, but they're more of a band-aid and they just end up feeling like an arbitrary, unsatisfying mechanic. Annoying to deal with for both teams. __________ Also, yes he should be modernized.
Eh even if it did address his mana issues, I still feel like this version is far less healthy and interesting than the Crystal Venom was it felt the most fair and right of all the versions I played of skarner (he was my 1st jungler back in S1), and I think either looking to make him more of a damage threat or towards what made the Crystal Venom version liked by skarners players is a good idea where to start on him.
Ralanr (NA)
: Tanks just need enough damage to farm lanes and clear the jungle decently. Sadly this amount of damage still seems painful for squishies.
Cho does plenty of damage to squishes w/o damage items as he has ridiculous base damages as is, I am glad his tanky/AP build fallen out of viability since he was basically a tanky burst mage.
Paquay (NA)
: it really seems like you are here just to argue, but I'll bite. She's versatile. Kind of the jack of all trades type similar to Sona. She has a lot of flexibility with what she can do. If you don't like flexibility and a variety of utility and want to focus on being the master of a single support type, don't use Lulu.
{{champion:43}} feels nearly as versatile as Lulu and all around better than lulu currently to me.
: What is the point of picking Lulu, again?
{{champion:43}} {{champion:40}} might be banned and you go "well I guess I'll play lulu". Cause both of them simply outclass her currently, imo.
nep2une (NA)
: That's irrelevant. Ranged should not ever be able to use flat armorpen. It is pure unintended abuse and broken as hell.
: PSA: Despite Yasuo's 20% Bonus AD "Compensation", the change to his E is still a flat-out nerf.
It also indirectly discourages tank yasou from being a thing by lower his base damage.
nep2une (NA)
: Why are Lethality items still not melee only when ranged abused something they weren't supposed to?
> [{quoted}](name=nep2une,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g6vxkQ88,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-12T14:26:54.431+0000) > > Every single AD assassin is melee. And changing flat armorpen to Lethality gutted their itemization. > Meanwhile the ranged ADCs that abused something they weren't even supposed to ever use could still use it (albeit Lethality being a lot worse overall and generally not worth). > > And now you're just buffing Lethality and STILL not keeping it melee only? > This is stupid as fuck. Because some adcs are borderline assassin like? {{champion:133}} {{champion:202}} though {{champion:202}} doesn't really use as often anymore. So it's basically {{champion:133}} who's a skirmish who's not a team fighter like many assassins and likes the out of combat MS on the lethality items cause she's a roamer, and {{champion:21}} well because frankly it's what her ult scales best with currently, and that's only reason she buys it. Then {{champion:126}} is basically an AD caster and thus likes pen & AD thus Lethality items. And you see some {{champion:236}} try it but the community general accepted it's not worth it on him. So I don't see the point of bitching about ranged using it when it's literally 3 champions and one of them is a hybrid.
: I'm sure you know not all Quinns build her as an assassin, but I think this path is better, as it gives an earlier powerspike, and is a lot more cost efficient given all the current problems with the standard crit builds. Quinn's never really been about DPS anyway, since her teamfight is subpar.
yeah but her rework *tried* to make her about dps some (see passive scaling with crit). And yeah it powerspikes early, but it feels like she can completely take control of the game with the build if snowballs and just oneshot the highest priority squishy target, which is why I am not sure it's good of the game even if it works.
Meddler (NA)
: Current Thoughts on Marksmen
Hi Meddler since we're talking about marksman, I wanted to chime in and as about {{champion:133}} and ask are guys ok with assassin playstyle becoming her dominate & most successful playstyle? It had been common before the pre-season, but I feel like the new {{item:3147}} really pushed her hard in that direction and when I've played it with I am not always sure it's a healthy thing for the game.
: the difference is pretty big. but in short, they made a smooth methodical champ into a clunky mess that abuses high amounts of AD to do similar things as before.
It's almost like being about to do your whole combo in .01 seconds in problematic for game healthy
: > [{quoted}](name=Blakiepug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0kAG9XE2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-29T16:43:04.041+0000) > > R.I.P. {{champion:223}} 2016 > R.I.P. {{champion:268}} 2016 > They were too young to deserve this. > > Edit: R.I.P. {{champion:203}} 2016 as well. Hell no. Fuck Kindred. All of Kindred's abilities are auto-succeed. Q - Auto Target W - Auto-Target E - Point and Click R - Automatically centered on Kindred. There's zero room to fail when you use Kindred's abilities. The only way for an opponent to interact with them is to knock back (not just displace, it has to knock back, and in the right direction) Kindred or one of their allies from Kindred's ult. That's the only thing you can do against their kit. Champion should never have been released with a binary kit like that.
Says the guy who mains fucking Nunu. >Hell no. Fuck Nunu. All of Nunu's abilities are auto-succeed. >Q - Point and Click >W - Point and Click >E - Point and Click >R - Automatically centered on Nunu. >There's zero room to fail when you use Nunu's abilities. The only way for an opponent to interact with them is to CC Nunu during his ult or flash away. That's the only thing you can do against their kit. >Champion should never have been released with a binary kit like that. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Ralanr (NA)
: Why put the damage reduction of PD on a marksman item?
{{item:3812}} exists for assassins, as does {{item:3156}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3814}} I generally feel that's enough survive options for assassins. Also Yi likes crit cause his Q & passive can crit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Phoenix Kotori ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0kAG9XE2,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2016-12-29T20:08:15.781+0000) > > Yet Kench was still played in worlds in multiple matches by more than 1 team heck it was banned away in some games just a few months ago yet I am suppose to believe he was gutted suddenly with no changes to him directly? > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} He wasn't played that much. Worlds was dominated by {{champion:267}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:201}} for the support position. Kindred was picked a few times too but performed poorly every match she was picked just like Kench.
So cause he didn't dominate worlds he was gutted? What kinda of argument is that lol, a 30% P/B rate & a positive win rate is plenty respectably stats at worlds mean he has niche usage, and also MF didn't "dominate worlds" it was a surprise counter-pick that showed up in 2 series, hardly domination. While trundle was mostly picked for top, so he was the 5 highest P/B rate support. Meanwhile yeah Kindred was gutted especially compared to Kench & has been left in a pretty damn poor state, she was tried in one match at worlds because junglers were super banned out that game.
: Why cant LCS have its own rules
Read this it talks a good bit about why riot doesn't want to do this.
: R.I.P. {{champion:223}} 2016 R.I.P. {{champion:268}} 2016 They were too young to deserve this. Edit: R.I.P. {{champion:203}} 2016 as well. Edit 2: R.I.P. {{champion:96}} 2016 both AD and AP.
Yet Kench was still played in worlds in multiple matches by more than 1 team heck it was banned away in some games just a few months ago yet I am suppose to believe he was gutted suddenly with no changes to him directly? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Anidan (NA)
: Yeah, but back then half the roster was absurd. Morgana, Udyr (never forget Innervating Locket), Kassadin, Soraka was pretty damn obnoxious (some things never change), and more. It wasn't just Morgana, it was others. She just had the luck to be safer than some of the others while doing it, whereas others traded that safety for even more absurdity like Kassadin back then.
Morgana was 100% pick/ban rate morgana season 2, when the only champion who was as broken as her was Kassadin as Innervating Locket was long gone, and Soraka had been nerfed down. She hasn't been a problem in a long time though.
: > [{quoted}](name=Phoenix Kotori ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcxzqwVf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-20T13:55:49.627+0000) > > Personally I play her mid secondary, mid-quinn has some really good match-ups (vs Zed most notably) and lets you make good use of your ult for roams. I tried her mid. Her roams were really good but for some reason she struggle a lot more against the mid lane picks than she does Top. She's a god in top lane but she feels meh in mid lane. I'll play it a bit more and see if anything pans out.
She struggles in certain match-ups for sure, but overall for mid quinn you mostly have to learn that {{summoner:14}} isn't always your best summoner choice, knowing when to go {{summoner:3}} or {{summoner:21}} / {{summoner:7}} makes most match-up manageable for Quinn (plus in really bad match-ups you just start {{item:2033}} try to stay in lane til 6, then just try to push out and roam). And you have to treat ranged vs ranged different than ranged vs melee of top lane, one of the main differences is using your E to punish missed skillshots early game like if pre-6 {{champion:103}} misses her charm you should punish with E into Auto into Q into auto if you can.
: Quinn ADC ?
Personally I play her mid secondary, mid-quinn has some really good match-ups (vs Zed most notably) and lets you make good use of your ult for roams.
: Fix Duskblade now!
tbh I think the item is overpowered in general, {{item:3147}} simply completely outshines {{item:3142}}, there is basically no reason to build youmu before or w/o it cause {{item:3147}} is so strong. Also Vayne & Jhin are both 2nd type assassins.
darkdill (NA)
: Thornmail and Ohmwrecker: Why must they be so... awkward?
The problem was you were fighting {{champion:67}} thornmail is rather ineffective vs her because she tends to A. Build {{item:3153}} & B. Has max hp% true damage autos and neither of those things are really hindered by thornmail since they're on-hit damage thus not reflected, you could buff thornmail as much as you want, it will never be a good buy vs Vayne without it being completely broke vs every other AD champion, vs Vayne {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} will always be the better choice by design. Also the fervor changes from on-hit to AD is an indirect buff to thornmail since AD on autos gets reflected while the on-hit damage didn't get reflected.
HollowMimic (EUNE)
: Like? What would u rather see first?
Heartseeker Quinn please, both her post releases are gritty and serious themes, she could really use a more playful/fun skin or something more beautiful and elegant as something like Order of the Lotus {{champion:43}} {{champion:39}} or lunar goddess {{champion:131}} would be wonderful and both things I'd rather see before another serious one, imo. I'd say some winter one, but I feel like too much overlap with woad. Also If she's to get another serious skin I'd see War Kingdoms Quinn or something like Justicar/Arclight Quinn than project for her personally (while I do like the idea of it). I just don't want her to be the next lux where she's doomed for her first 5 or 6 skins to all be gritty and serious skins.
: @RiotRangerXIV Quinn's missing Skystrike sounds!
I'd love for my phoenix {{champion:133}} to have the original SFX back I still miss it, so rito plz.
Jerahmi (NA)
: Ehhh... I'm not sure about this change Riot.
To be honest I am still not sure why Jayce gets such a strong double shred just for switching into ranged form and autoing you and why he has two skills that scale off AD but do magic damage R melee auto and melee E (it's why he can melt tanks due to the shred and mixed damage).
: Some people actually enjoy simple kits...
I am fine with simple kits generally I only take issue with simple champions who border on unkillable if you can't pass their stat check due to sustain or tankyness coming from it for free leaving you feeling like there isn't much you can do against them without your team namely {{champion:8}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:48}} would be the worst offenders. Otherwise I have no issue with simple champions.
: Yes damage should outscale lategame, but when marksmen can pop a tank before the tank can even properly initate the game stagnates into "who messes up first" instead of a meaningful teamfight. Not to mention how ranged vs melee lanes can cause the melee to literally be unimpactful for the entire game by bullying them out of xp, cs, and also makes melee have zero enjoyment of the game
The only ranged champion (without being super ahead) I see who can "pop a tank before the tank can even properly initiate" are {{champion:126}} cause he's overtuned and he has his own armor shred in kit making strong vs tanks plus his high base damages mean LW+BC is viable on him and {{champion:67}} cause she's an anti-tank champion by design. In competitive you rarely see a tank even popped by a team much less an adc. No other ranged champion will get LW+BC generally besides {{champion:236}} who really isn't particularly great at bursting a tank. >Not to mention how ranged vs melee lanes can cause the melee to literally be unimpactful for the entire game by bullying them out of xp, cs, and also makes melee have zero enjoyment of the game That's simply due to people not understanding how to play the game and not caring enough to learn how to play it, Imo. As I think ranged are easier to play in lane but more difficult for the team post lane while melee have more difficulty in lane but more leeway as they get tanker in the midgame. Watch competitive outside of {{champion:150}} into certain match ups you'll almost only rarely see a ranged champion shut down a melee one in lane and fully take control of the match-up and the melee tends to be the more impactful one as the game goes past laning since damage soaking and CC are valuable for a team which melee tend to do better than ranged.
: As I said the numbers shouldnt be taken as set in stone, but there needs to be ranged damage reduction that isnt just armor since LW and BC can make armor almost meaningless
Damage is meant to outscale tankyness period, that's how the game is designed because it forces the game to end (usually within a reasonable time) Or else when things reach late game you end up with borderline unkillable tanks fights on both sides that get no where fast and allow for easy stalling out of the game, thus the game is harder to end thus matches drag out well past the point where it's interesting and starts to just become frustrating and feel pointless for both sides.
: About the Melee vs Ranged situation...
>Unique Passive - Reduces physical ranged damage taken by 50 or 25% (Whichever is greater) This item would literally break the game into a tank meta as it's that disgustingly overpowered {{item:3075}} + item would literally invalidate any ranged auto attacker on champions like {{champion:36}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:154}} And {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3075}} are already anti-auto attacker items thus anti-ranged items.
: Time to balance MF around support, just like we did with Zyra.
Doubtful until we see it picked outside of being a counterpick to support Zyra, it's unlikely to be balanced around it. Support {{champion:63}} being balanced around could happen though.
: Pure soloQ players, y'all should start playing ranked right now.
And risk a {{champion:21}} support on my team cause of worlds? No thanks.
: 2 melee and 8 ranged Champs on world's rn
And? The team with the melees won. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: I don't think Nidalee cougar cool down was the problem.
Friendly remind that {{champion:60}} has the same thing with free melee form abilities and no one ever complains about it, I don't think that's the issue with nidalee.
: > [{quoted}](name=Phoenix Kotori ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i5nXvea7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-10-21T07:42:57.669+0000) > > {{item:3036}} says hi it was literally made for that purpose. That's an item that specifically increases ADCs damage versus tanks. It does nothing to lower their damage against squishy targets and if it did nobody would buy it. What I'm saying is that there need to be specific changes to itemization so that normal ADC builds do less damage to squishy targets while doing about the same damage to tanks. Something like that would in turn let them give burst champions more counterplay, since the problem that OP is talking about would come up less.
>What I'm saying is that there need to be specific changes to itemization so that normal ADC builds do less damage to squishy targets while doing about the same damage to tanks. That's what changing old {{item:3035}} last year into {{item:3036}} did though, it took away their general target neutral armor pen item for an anti-tank item. That changed lowered ADC damage to squishy targets, current ADC 'problem' on squishy targets comes from either the ones building flat armor pen or the current fervor battle keystone (both of which are receiving changes in the pre-season).
: > [{quoted}](name=Pexagon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vd1cb6qk,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-10-20T18:40:27.226+0000) > > Why would you compare Void Staff to LDR? Void staff ignores 35% of ALL magic resist, while LDR is 45% of BONUS Armor. LDR has 15% + bonus damage to higher health targets. It's also a greater raw penetration item than Void Staff by a significant margin, ignoring hundreds of armor whereas Void Staff rarely reaches that amount even at the best of times. Basically Void Staff is garbo in comparison.
Except {{item:3036}} is just 50 AD vs squishies who don't build HP or armor meanwhile {{item:3135}} works against everything and everyone regardless of build meaning it dramatically increases the damage squishies take.
ItsOrval (NA)
: The only patches on jayce this year was nerfing his W on Cannon mode from +130% physical damage to +110% physical damage, and making his E 40 mana at all ranks. Unless im missing something, but they did not continuously buff Jayce.
Since the patch [v5.11 changes to jayce]( which were debately buffs as well, he's gotten nothing but buffs in the past year. > V5.22 Stats Mana increased to 357.2 from 307.2 Mana growth reduced to 37 from 40 Buff to his early game mana > V6.6 To The Skies! Damage increased to 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 from 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 AD ratio increased to (+ 120% bonus AD) from (+ 100% bonus AD) Cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 Significant buffs to his melee Q and more to ease his mana costs >V6.17 Thundering Blow Mana cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90. Transform: Mercury Cannon / Transform: Mercury Hammer Hammer Stance bonus damage ratio changed to 40% bonus AD from 40% AP. Significant buff to his R empowered Auto attack and more to ease his mana costs. Together the changes left him with no real mana gating that {{item:2033}} can't solve, and put his melee form into an overpowered state, imo.
: > this may sound toxic but this is why you're in silver 5 with 1k games There are other ways to get your point across without insulting someone...especially when your insult had nothing to do with your main point. Him not thinking that Kennen & Jayce need buffs unequivocally is not the reason that he's Silver 5 with 1,000 games. To an extent, I do think that they need to be looked at THOUGH no one would be saying shit about Jayce or Kennen if Worlds didn't exist.
Kennen I agree, but Riot had been buffing Jayce bit by bit off and on for awhile now it was kinda of doomed to have QQ about him happen (and I think giving his R melee auto the AD ratio was a bigger buff than people realized it gives him absurd burst in melee form).
: They really need to find some way of making ADCs do about the same amount of damage to tanky targets without blowing up squishies quite as hard. The problem is that the amount of DPS required to take down a tank or a big monster in a reasonable timespan starts to look like burst when it's targeted on a champion without defensive items.
{{item:3036}} says hi it was literally made for that purpose.
: Make fervor of Battle give bonus AD according to the champs base AD.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6yrRbFA,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-10-21T03:12:32.847+0000) > > (.7% + .1%*X) for every stack. X is the champs level. so it gives 8% to 25% with 10 stacks depending on level > > That will make it better on most melee then ranged and scale as the game goes on. > > And the only item boosting this keystone will be {{item:3053}} Or we could not since melee already get stacks twice as fast which matters since stacks fall off faster now (4 seconds vs 6 seconds on live) plus 10 stacks max, and spells gain stacks more limited than before. And will frankly make the keystone awful overall and likely would kill it's usage overall, currently it will give 10-60 AD on at 10 stacks, even {{champion:82}} would only get 4.88-36.5 AD from max stacks? Why is your suggested value so much dramatically lower compared to the 10-60 currently suggested on PBE? If you want to use % so it doesn't hurt the average melee who might use it vs the 60 current, you'd need to DOUBLE your suggested values make it scale from about 16% to 50% with 10 stacks depending on level so that the average melee would still get roughly 10-60 AD (why ranged would get a bit less).
: What if it was harder to keep stacks from fervor of battle?
Because losing all your stacks cause you got stunned once is pretty anti-fun, I'd rather the damage nerfed if its deemed OP.
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Phoenix Kotori

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