: No one called NA unskilled. I think the individual players of all major regions are pretty close in skill. Bjergsen can go toe to toe with any midlaner in the world and Doublelift and Sneaky are not top 5 adcs in the world but definitely have worlds class format. Obviously China and Korea (and to an extent EU and LMS too) have some very good single players but in the end it is a teamgame and the thing what makes NA the worst out of the 5 big regions currently (and basically any year except S4 worlds) is that they can't play as a 5 man team and figure out strategies in game. They are good at finiding a great strategy that works for them but once the enemy exploited that and finds a way to deal with it, there is no answer from NA side, the teams overall just lack creativity, they are slow to adapt to changes and you almost never see a new pick out of the NA region. EU, Korea and China brought a lot of stuff into the meta last year and NA always only adapted.
> [{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=MJmB4y2s,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-16T14:00:36.266+0000) > > No one called NA unskilled. I think the individual players of all major regions are pretty close in skill. Bjergsen can go toe to toe with any midlaner in the world and Doublelift and Sneaky are not top 5 adcs in the world but definitely have worlds class format. > Obviously China and Korea (and to an extent EU and LMS too) have some very good single players but in the end it is a teamgame and the thing what makes NA the worst out of the 5 big regions currently (and basically any year except S4 worlds) is that they can't play as a 5 man team and figure out strategies in game. > They are good at finiding a great strategy that works for them but once the enemy exploited that and finds a way to deal with it, there is no answer from NA side, the teams overall just lack creativity, they are slow to adapt to changes and you almost never see a new pick out of the NA region. EU, Korea and China brought a lot of stuff into the meta last year and NA always only adapted. Nether can EU in the end they barely did anything. Other then the top team top 2 teams this year they been statistically worst then NA.
: There is no reason to assume NA is as good as China...they are the worst region currently. LPL just massively underperformed at worlds but they still got atleast 1 team out of groups.
> [{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=MJmB4y2s,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-16T01:42:25.405+0000) > > There is no reason to assume NA is as good as China...they are the worst region currently. > LPL just massively underperformed at worlds but they still got atleast 1 team out of groups. I Agree. But doesn't make NA unskilled or even potential skill they need to crack down on the problems and work hard. NA preformed the worst at worlds so they are the worst. I glad CLG split up, a little conflicted about TSM. It to bad Hai one of the greats may not be that anymore(will we have to see).
: Thank You Riot For All-Stars
I didn't check it, it not that big deal. But did you have to make it exam week. Not really best viewing time.
: by not giving a fck about what people think of you/what other people are doing. don't worry, this will come with age
> [{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FkQ2hEGc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-15T16:08:27.819+0000) > > by not giving a fck about what people think of you/what other people are doing. > > don't worry, this will come with age that is true.
: How do some people absolutely never get salty :p
People are not less salty they just hide it better. But game wise. Just focus on your own game.
: I'm not sure if All-Star this year is going to be the same or different from last year but, I'm sure only 2 person with highest vote from the same region are pick to go to All-Star only if it still follow by the same rule last year. So it would just be both Bjerg and DoubleLift, since they're the highest vote in NA (funny thing is, last year it was them both also) So it would be like 2 NA 2 EU 2 KR 2 LPL 2 LMS 10 players IDK just saying, it might not be The Rush Hour bot lane
> [{quoted}](name=Hangsterr,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=amFK1MYd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-20T09:46:20.087+0000) > > I'm not sure if All-Star this year is going to be the same or different from last year but, I'm sure only 2 person with highest vote from the same region are pick to go to All-Star only if it still follow by the same rule last year. > > So it would just be both Bjerg and DoubleLift, since they're the highest vote in NA > (funny thing is, last year it was them both also) > > So it would be like > 2 NA > 2 EU > 2 KR > 2 LPL > 2 LMS > > 10 players > > IDK just saying, it might not be The Rush Hour bot lane No wild card region gets 1{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Tavish (NA)
: Aren't some of them for wrist support? Playing all that league often leads to wrist problems. If you are referring to Hai and Bjerg.
> [{quoted}](name=Garlic Bread Zed,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=R4ThVGwW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-18T01:39:25.741+0000) > > Aren't some of them for wrist support? Playing all that league often leads to wrist problems. If you are referring to Hai and Bjerg. Hai had wrist problems but many players wear them without wear them with wrist problems just in case.
: Bjergsen wasn't dominating competitive scene when he was in EU, he was in a PepiiNero like situation where he was the only shining star and the one that received the resources in the team because anyone recognized that he was the only one that could carry the team to the win (in Bjrgsen's NiP split Freeze was in 1st competitive split and while good wasn't at top ADC level yet, and after Bjerg left Freeze couldn't carry enough to keep NiP in LCS vs what would have then been called team ROCCAT)
> [{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=zKhLdXzT,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T11:15:36.384+0000) > > Bjergsen wasn't dominating competitive scene when he was in EU, he was in a PepiiNero like situation where he was the only shining star and the one that received the resources in the team because anyone recognized that he was the only one that could carry the team to the win (in Bjrgsen's NiP split Freeze was in 1st competitive split and while good wasn't at top ADC level yet, and after Bjerg left Freeze couldn't carry enough to keep NiP in LCS vs what would have then been called team ROCCAT) he was a rookie and he was still pretty dominate in his team. It not even worth mentioning the fact the people grow over time.
Brodast (NA)
: Doublelift/TSM new roster.
That is very possible.
Facy (EUW)
: ALL was an all European team, TSM atm is 1EU 1NA so far and there will ofc come more imports, i doubt its the same at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Facy,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=d8gW0hUj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-01T12:48:02.596+0000) > > ALL was an all European team, TSM atm is 1EU 1NA so far and there will ofc come more imports, i doubt its the same at all. Hope not too many I don't know what they are doing for junger all though. Nether region done well that way.
Lafouboy (NA)
: Who do you think TSM will draft next? They have a chance of creating a legendary roster now.
I like to see them pickup an unknown jungler. From what I understand NA has skilled solo queue junglers that are unrefined if they could be trained they could become strong. Top EU's Freddy. That be cool. Support Fufu be cool.
: No worries about coming off as a downer. I like having a healthy conversation. I must admit I'm pretty bais because I'm in NA so I really want them to succeed. I think part of the problem with NA as a region is that we no best of x series. Even a best of 2 would be better to get teams prepared for a world stage. I think there is a huge skill gap between NA and other regions, but I want them to succeed so badly. Maybe the Rush hour bot lane needs to go because you can't get rid of just one of them. The problem is right now there is a lack of bot lane talent, not to mention Renegades need an ADC and C9 needs a support or jungler. The problem is that one team can only have 2 outsiders on their team, that's where TSM runs into problems. But I think TSM has bigger problems in the fact that Reggie is still the head coach for TSM. Maybe TSM can pull an all star line up like Origin did but I highly doubt it. As far as diversity in strats, I agree NA seems to be behind in the times. This is where I think my inner Monte comes out because let's be honest, Korea is the best region in the world right now. Until NA can start pulling stuff like that off, there will almost always be a Korean world champs. PS Thank you for explaining yourself, I do agree that skill alone will not help NA and I really don't mean to attack you. But on the C9 Hai is not re retiring, they are actually holding try outs for jungle and support. If they find a support Hai will stay jungle. If they find a jungle then Hai will play support (C9 Rush confirmed?). I can provide you a link if you wish. PPS Thank you for engaging in this conversation I really do like hearing other people's opnions. XD
> [{quoted}](name=Awkward Couch,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=dTij0hL9,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-30T04:30:57.073+0000) > > No worries about coming off as a downer. I like having a healthy conversation. I must admit I'm pretty bais because I'm in NA so I really want them to succeed. I think part of the problem with NA as a region is that we no best of x series. Even a best of 2 would be better to get teams prepared for a world stage. I think there is a huge skill gap between NA and other regions, but I want them to succeed so badly. Maybe the Rush hour bot lane needs to go because you can't get rid of just one of them. The problem is right now there is a lack of bot lane talent, not to mention Renegades need an ADC and C9 needs a support or jungler. The problem is that one team can only have 2 outsiders on their team, that's where TSM runs into problems. But I think TSM has bigger problems in the fact that Reggie is still the head coach for TSM. Maybe TSM can pull an all star line up like Origin did but I highly doubt it. > > As far as diversity in strats, I agree NA seems to be behind in the times. This is where I think my inner Monte comes out because let's be honest, Korea is the best region in the world right now. Until NA can start pulling stuff like that off, there will almost always be a Korean world champs. > > PS Thank you for explaining yourself, I do agree that skill alone will not help NA and I really don't mean to attack you. But on the C9 Hai is not re retiring, they are actually holding try outs for jungle and support. If they find a support Hai will stay jungle. If they find a jungle then Hai will play support (C9 Rush confirmed?). I can provide you a link if you wish. > > PPS Thank you for engaging in this conversation I really do like hearing other people's opnions. XD Here the real truth as everything goes TSM and Fnatic always make worlds. I don`t see that changing. They have just been the best managed teams in the west(even if TSM has coaching issues). The issue these teams have are facing are not the same as other teams in the west who have bad management(and players at times). Now RNG may be able to show how they have good management next year. but teams like clg NO, C9 Not so much but improving. Liquid NO NO NO, Gravity Maybe they did better then most expected.
: > [{quoted}](name=PoisonedTea,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=kEAGzH3r,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-29T08:30:14.521+0000) > > You imaging things your name is AN15 noone would think your a girl with that name. Any harassment you get has nothing to do with your gender. i was trying to pretend i was a male to get treated equally...
> [{quoted}](name=an15,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=kEAGzH3r,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-10-29T21:21:11.783+0000) > > i was trying to pretend i was a male to get treated equally... No one would think you are a guy ether so job well done you are an equally.
Arrohe (NA)
: Canadians are already part of the NALCS so we wont get our own league. as far as worlds go, If it was held in the states one of the days might be in Canada, but as far as the entire tournament taking place, Canada doesn't have a large enough presence in LOL to really warrant it.
> [{quoted}](name=Arrohe,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=un9rtIUy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-28T19:31:37.378+0000) > > Canadians are already part of the NALCS so we wont get our own league. as far as worlds go, If it was held in the states one of the days might be in Canada, but as far as the entire tournament taking place, Canada doesn't have a large enough presence in LOL to really warrant it. Canada is more then Toronto. Canada consistently is 10% of pro NA players they could easily make a pro Canadian team that be a top NA team. 10% my not seem high but the fact all these imports are replacing USA players and not Canadians is the most impressive part. USA players need to get their act together if they wanna stay relevant. Canada has about as large a presence as top USA players that matter. Cause all your weak USA players get replaced by imports. as for OP it is unlikely but possible.
: is there any female pro play casters?
You imaging things your name is AN15 noone would think your a girl with that name. Any harassment you get has nothing to do with your gender.
: TSM is dead to me.
I think this is the right why to go. but will they fix the coaching issue.
EPIKON (NA)
: Yes, NA and EU, get good.
EU is the second best region in the world right now
: Kind of like when everyone left Fnatic and the only one left was Yellowstar, lets hope for similar results :D
> [{quoted}](name=HexaDecimel,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=GZR1tPHN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-27T19:38:53.049+0000) > > Kind of like when everyone left Fnatic and the only one left was Yellowstar, lets hope for similar results :D good point I guess
: If I was to watch one worlds game for mordekaiser, which of the 4 should I watch?
TSM had their win on morde vs LDG I believe that might be worth watching.
Floopyyy (NA)
: New eSports Bar in downtown Austin, Texas (In development)
I support the idea as I plan on something similar at some point. I tell you what I think as from knowing a past failure place. First you need computers for people play as was said up above. Now their is a clear reason for this gamers don't want to just watch games be played when they see a game be played to want to play it. Of course as it is sports bad you are creating you want TV around. Now if possible it be cool if you could give the customers control of what is being streamed if not as like give allow a suggestion area(With big events of course this would not apply). Being in a big city you customer base could be large, I do believe adult gamers are looking for places to find other gamers. But I think the type of place you need to create is a place where people want to come back again and again. A homey kinda feel, not the type of bars that get new/different customers every day. So what this means is need to make the place a comfortable place to hangout and talk.(sorry if this is not so much a clear meaning). But what it comes down to is that the esports customer base is growing it is nothing compared to a sports customer base so you need regulars. umm I think that is good. All I can think of if it just an esports bar and nothing more. I hope it help.
: I'm gonna cheer for KOO Tigers
That be the only thing to save how bad this has been.
: Just a Thought: This Years Worldchampionship
Groups were so good this year but quater/semi have sucked in a big way. also many players are playing champions they are not prepared to play. we do have to give EU props for being the second best region in the world that is cool at least. NA just gone to **** and it not looking an better for next year. well at least we got renegades they might be fun.
: CLG changing mid laners.....?!?
confirmed CLG managements does it again. It was a surprise they could even get to worlds but "Pobelter" was clearly a big impact on that.
: Season 1 Champions: FNC - EU Season 2 Champions: TPA - China Season 3 Champions: SKT - Korea Season 4 Champions: SSW - Korea Korea has only won 2 out of the 4 championships.
> [{quoted}](name=Adrian Blackbear,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=2Zyo3U5h,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-25T06:36:17.489+0000) > > Season 1 Champions: FNC - EU > Season 2 Champions: TPA - China > Season 3 Champions: SKT - Korea > Season 4 Champions: SSW - Korea > > Korea has only won 2 out of the 4 championships. TPA is not China they would get so angry if you say that.
Lugg (NA)
: If it's SKT vs KOO in the finals
Koo is not that good. So it should not be. The only real question is how well can fnatic do well vs SKT can they really take down a monster.
: Should Annie Grow Up?
She scares my friend
warwiller (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=PoisonedTea,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=Eh49ysBA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-21T10:02:38.723+0000) > > They can be. But roaming gank protection is very weak. Also they die fast to burst which many mid's often are. Dont they have about same hp as mages and assassins? So its not a question of defense, but offense. Mages can sweep off a third of an adcs hp in one combo helped with a one or two autoattacks but they have to come close to do it and recieve the adcs combo, which is weaker, but more and stronger autoattacks. For assassins, and fighters like Yasuo, its the same except they must come yet closer to be able to inflict their full damage, thus leaving them open to harassment if the adc is quick enough to notice the beginning of their advance without them being able to come into range to dash to them. Obviously some champions like Zed and Xerath can attack from a long distance but its the same for some adcs like Varus and Cait (not to say a champion with short range cant counter a champion with long range since hitting skillshots is as easy as avoiding them and once they commit to a skillshot they squander their defense).
> [{quoted}](name=warwiller,realm=EUNE,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=Eh49ysBA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-21T11:57:19.592+0000) > > Dont they have about same hp as mages and assassins? So its not a question of defense, but offense. Mages can sweep off a third of an adcs hp in one combo helped with a one or two autoattacks but they have to come close to do it and recieve the adcs combo, which is weaker, but more and stronger autoattacks. For assassins, and fighters like Yasuo, its the same except they must come yet closer to be able to inflict their full damage, thus leaving them open to harassment if the adc is quick enough to notice the beginning of their advance without them being able to come into range to dash to them. > Obviously some champions like Zed and Xerath can attack from a long distance but its the same for some adcs like Varus and Cait (not to say a champion with short range cant counter a champion with long range since hitting skillshots is as easy as avoiding them and once they commit to a skillshot they squander their defense). You thinking about it in the wrong way. One person can kill you in a single combo, The other person can't kill you in a single combo. Which one has the advantage. A little harassment is not worth a kill.
: 2015 worlds bet
warwiller (EUNE)
: Fact: adcs are good mid
They can be. But roaming gank protection is very weak. Also they die fast to burst which many mid's often are.
Krigjer (NA)
: > I'm not salty in the slightest. Just because teams come from NA doesn't mean we naturally have any attachment to them. Whole reason I hate sports and am starting to hate esports. So much emphasis on team rivalries and where the team comes from instead of just enjoying the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Krigjer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=rsJPn935,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-18T23:53:29.363+0000) > > Whole reason I hate sports and am starting to hate esports. > So much emphasis on team rivalries and where the team comes from instead of just enjoying the game. seems like EU are the salty ones as they keep bringing it up.
Rioter Comments
Croanin (NA)
: What Has TSM Been Doing Wrong?
Two things. One is they kept dead weight on the team or can't motivate the team. Wildturtle has not improved even know he was meant too. Dyrus not improving and being unmotivated as well. Dyrus is a really strong player but TSM seems to have many issues in motivation. Two They had the same gameplan for 5 years. They play the game of letting the strong mid laner carry and dictate the game. It worked pretty well with regi as he was a fairly strong shotcaller and dominate personalty, but with bjergsen it has not shown the same results. Bjergson is clearly a dominate player but does not have the shotcalling to back it up. One more thing is that this style has a weakness it is too relent on one person(see what happened to C9).
: Why doesn't Faker use skins?
It makes people think he is a noobs Mind strats faker. IDK but he doesn't
: It is odd, but....
It will be hard for TSM. They will be a new team next year. CLG should do well next year if they keep the same lineup(or minor change). CLG I am not a fan of is a team that should rise next year on their own merit unlike this year. C9 is also in a hard spot you saw how well they did this year it could be just as bad.
Xantak (NA)
: I live for the fantastic plays, and crowd reactions. However, with NA, IG and LGD being eliminated, I'll be the first to congratulate all the teams who beat the NA teams, and exposing weaknesses that must be worked on, improved on. This year, EU has played superior to NA. There's no shame in admitting that. EU had the much better performances. And I hope that next year, NA will rise up in competitive magnitude, but most likely, it will be a massive overhaul, rebuilding season, especially for TSM, C9, and possibly CLG/TL. The teams I would be rooting for, would be either AHQ(let's see if they can bring down the current gods they'll be facing) or KT Rolster(I like Nagne). AHQ right now definitely seems like the dark horse of the remaining teams, where everyone had already written them off the moment the KO stage brackets were set down. I've always been one to root for the dark horse in any tourney or matches, win or lose.
> [{quoted}](name=Xantak,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XnE1uALW,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-10-16T06:06:03.791+0000) > > I live for the fantastic plays, and crowd reactions. However, with NA, IG and LGD being eliminated, I'll be the first to congratulate all the teams who beat the NA teams, and exposing weaknesses that must be worked on, improved on. This year, EU has played superior to NA. There's no shame in admitting that. EU had the much better performances. And I hope that next year, NA will rise up in competitive magnitude, but most likely, it will be a massive overhaul, rebuilding season, especially for TSM, C9, and possibly CLG/TL. > > The teams I would be rooting for, would be either AHQ(let's see if they can bring down the current gods they'll be facing) or KT Rolster(I like Nagne). AHQ right now definitely seems like the dark horse of the remaining teams, where everyone had already written them off the moment the KO stage brackets were set down. I've always been one to root for the dark horse in any tourney or matches, win or lose. CLG is in surprisingly good place right now. You be like but they lost, I be like yes team wise C9 and TSM were still better even that they made it first in NA. CLG is in a prefect place to grow what they have right now. But just like TSM an C9 they were not worth looking at as a contender in this worlds. They won NA in the weakest NA year that ever existed(or least competitive).
: Player from EU here,are the NA fans going to support a new team ?
No I support Fnatic. They are fun to watch. I am ok with Origen.
: Before getting mad at EU as a whole and getting pent up rage:
Kaboom was funny because it was unexpected. CLG was expected to lose or at least a possibility. The Fact is by this point noone was hyping NA to win. EU last year had false hype at least. EU last year did worst then NA it that simple the fans refuse to accept it. The lost to kaboom should not have happened. NA this year sucks but no logical person would say they were good. Even CLG was not in the hype.
FrostEagle (EUNE)
: KNOCKOUT STAGE PICKS
hardest is FNC OG.
: No. Both teams were predicted to go 0-6.
> [{quoted}](name=TurquoiseYoshi,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XnJiKxfF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-13T00:27:46.768+0000) > > No. Both teams were predicted to go 0-6. exactly! But I am one of the few that said CLG will be last in the group too.
bizzle89 (EUW)
: 3rd seed for LMS, 2 seeds for NA
With that logic EU should only get 2 seeds for sucking last year. EU should remove origen right now because they only should have 2 seeds I agree
: Except NA situation isn't much different from Eu and Eu has historically performed better than NA at world stage... The problem is simpler, there is a smaller and with less average quality pool of potentially good pro players in NA server compared to the other main regions (barring maybe LMS, and I underline the maybe at this point) for a number of different reasons
> [{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XpGjwict,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-12T13:13:53.478+0000) > > Except NA situation isn't much different from Eu and Eu has historically performed better than NA at world stage... > > The problem is simpler, there is a smaller and with less average quality pool of potentially good pro players in NA server compared to the other main regions (barring maybe LMS, and I underline the maybe at this point) for a number of different reasons No it is different for one NA is a big patch of land with spread out major communities. EU is more compact so you get a better solo queue connection all around mostly. two EU has a big esport in counter strike were they have a crowd were the dominate the idea of competitive gaming is somewhat accepted on a small scale in EU. NA is completely against it on a social scale. Of course that just takes time. And NA is smaller population.
: Be Honest how many of you got Fanatic to win it all?
Flash Wolves will lose to origen. How could they knock out skt.
Avedecus (NA)
: The only EU team with a real shot is Origen. Fnatic has looked pretty terrible, outside the games where their opponents all but hand them a win on a platter.
> [{quoted}](name=Avedecus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EVRdQGM5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-12T01:51:01.188+0000) > > The only EU team with a real shot is Origen. Fnatic has looked pretty terrible, outside the games where their opponents all but hand them a win on a platter. I don't think so. I likely Fnatic will get better from now on. Best of 5's are up now also.
: What happened to NA???
Both NA Top teams started to suck. C9 was terrible (other then sneaky of course). And TSM fell in a big way after MSI. What did you expect the outcome to be. CLG Winning NA LCS was only party cause of their skill but they are not the Best team in NA.
: Anyone got 34 points?
I did. picking Fnatic AHQ did it, Also right order of group C.
: Apart from Candypanda (who's pretty consistent, but has a lower skill ceiling than the others), all the ADCs on that list are world class though Hjarnan has some decision making issues but he can handle his own Rekkles and Niels are both central to their own teams If Forgiven can stop raging and tilting (and getting banned for it), he's one of the top ADCs in the LCS Freeze is inconsistent, I'll give you that, but put him with a reliable team and he can go far Yellowstar is definitely world class Mithy is also really important on Origen KaSing is like 60% of the reason H2K even made it out of the spring split alive, and a pretty big part of their climb to 3rd in EU NA has very similar issues, though, I must agree Most of the ADCs are inconsistent (Sneaky, Turtle) or not world class (Apollo, CoreJJ). Haven't seen enough from Emperor to really make a consolidated opinion on him. Those that are good (Doublelift, Piglet Altec) have other issues they have to fix (Piglet's prone to tilting, for example) There are good supports, but some of them are older and are on the verge of retirement (Lemonnation), prone to bad decision making when under pressure (Aphromoo), or just need a more stable team (Adrian - XwX being banned pretty much destroyed their chances at Worlds- and Lustboy -Turtle has really high highs and really low lows, Dyrus is retiring, Santorin is sometimes nonexistent)
> [{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EE9LY35k,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-11T20:06:42.121+0000) > > Apart from Candypanda (who's pretty consistent, but has a lower skill ceiling than the others), all the ADCs on that list are world class though > > Hjarnan has some decision making issues but he can handle his own > > Rekkles and Niels are both central to their own teams > > If Forgiven can stop raging and tilting (and getting banned for it), he's one of the top ADCs in the LCS > > Freeze is inconsistent, I'll give you that, but put him with a reliable team and he can go far > > Yellowstar is definitely world class > > Mithy is also really important on Origen > > KaSing is like 60% of the reason H2K even made it out of the spring split alive, and a pretty big part of their climb to 3rd in EU > > NA has very similar issues, though, I must agree > > Most of the ADCs are inconsistent (Sneaky, Turtle) or not world class (Apollo, CoreJJ). Haven't seen enough from Emperor to really make a consolidated opinion on him. Those that are good (Doublelift, Piglet Altec) have other issues they have to fix (Piglet's prone to tilting, for example) > > There are good supports, but some of them are older and are on the verge of retirement (Lemonnation), prone to bad decision making when under pressure (Aphromoo), or just need a more stable team (Adrian - XwX being banned pretty much destroyed their chances at Worlds- and Lustboy -Turtle has really high highs and really low lows, Dyrus is retiring, Santorin is sometimes nonexistent) Rekkles the best ADC in EU is not world class. Yellowstar is world class. No other EU supports can compare to him. That doesn't mean that some of these guys do have merit. But when you look past the top guys in these roles in EU you have a dramatic skill drop. World class ADC's in EU ya right.
: Season 6 is gonna bring some much needed changes to the NA roster. Let's be honest - while there are a lot of good players, NA has some serious need of young, unpolished talent (Incarnation being one of the first to spearhead that movement). A lot of NA players (Dyrus, Hai, Lemonnation) are retiring/were retired/on the verge of retirement (respectively). They're gonna need more good shotcallers (currently, Aphromoo and Hai are the only "true" shotcallers that got to Worlds - and even then, that's kind of iffy, considering both of them tilted this week) to supplement their talent. Another problem is the lack of home-grown players. Look at the difference between NA and EU when it comes to imports: >**Jungle**: Amazing, Jankos, Svenskeren, Diamondprox -------------- Reignover **ADC**: Hjarnan, Rekkles, Niels, Forgiven, Candypanda, Freeze **Mid**: Febiven, Froggen, Pepiinero, xPeke, Nukeduck, PoE ------------- Ryu **Support**: Yellowstar, KaSing, Mithy, nRated, Hylissang, Gosu Pepper **Top**: Cabochard, Soaz, Odoamne, Vizi, fedy, Steve, Werlyb ------------- Huni vs >**Jungle**: Hai, IWDominate, Xmithie ------------- Rush, Move, Helios, Trashy, Santorin **ADC**: Sneaky, Dlift, Turtle, Apollo, Altec ------------- Piglet, Emperor, CoreJJ **Mid**: Gate, Pobelter, Shiphtur, Innox ------------- XiaoWeiXiao, Fenix, Bjergsen, Ninja, Incarnation, Keane **Support**: Adrian, xpecial, Bunnyfufuu, lemonnation, kiwikid ------------- Lustboy **Top**: Hauntzer, Zionspartan, Quas, Dyrus, Balls -------------- Impact, Gamsu, Seraph What does that make NA, then, if a little less than half of their notable pros are all imports? All told, this upcoming season is most likely going to shake things up. I'm somewhat excited to see how they're going to rebuild C9 and who's gonna be the new toplaner for TSM. Dunno how Liquid is going to pan out, considering xpecial stepped down from the support role. TDK got sent back to Challenger, with Team Coast coming in hot (with a Korean on their roster). Team 8 is also coming back, but with Cali retiring, who knows how they'll pan out.
> [{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EE9LY35k,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-11T17:41:13.118+0000) > > Season 6 is gonna bring some much needed changes to the NA roster. Let's be honest - while there are a lot of good players, NA has some serious need of young, unpolished talent (Incarnation being one of the first to spearhead that movement). A lot of NA players (Dyrus, Hai, Lemonnation) are retiring/were retired/on the verge of retirement (respectively). > > They're gonna need more good shotcallers (currently, Aphromoo and Hai are the only "true" shotcallers that got to Worlds - and even then, that's kind of iffy, considering both of them tilted this week) to supplement their talent. > > Another problem is the lack of home-grown players. Look at the difference between NA and EU when it comes to imports: > **ADC**: Hjarnan, Rekkles, Niels, Forgiven, Candypanda, Freeze > **Mid**: Febiven, Froggen, Pepiinero, xPeke, Nukeduck, PoE ------------- Ryu > **Support**: Yellowstar, KaSing, Mithy, nRated, Hylissang, Gosu Pepper > **Top**: Cabochard, Soaz, Odoamne, Vizi, fedy, Steve, Werlyb ------------- Huni > > vs > **ADC**: Sneaky, Dlift, Turtle, Apollo, Altec ------------- Piglet, Emperor, CoreJJ > **Mid**: Gate, Pobelter, Shiphtur, Innox ------------- XiaoWeiXiao, Fenix, Bjergsen, Ninja, Incarnation, Keane > **Support**: Adrian, xpecial, Bunnyfufuu, lemonnation, kiwikid ------------- Lustboy > **Top**: Hauntzer, Zionspartan, Quas, Dyrus, Balls -------------- Impact, Gamsu, Seraph > > What does that make NA, then, if a little less than half of their notable pros are all imports? > > All told, this upcoming season is most likely going to shake things up. I'm somewhat excited to see how they're going to rebuild C9 and who's gonna be the new toplaner for TSM. Dunno how Liquid is going to pan out, considering xpecial stepped down from the support role. TDK got sent back to Challenger, with Team Coast coming in hot (with a Korean on their roster). Team 8 is also coming back, but with Cali retiring, who knows how they'll pan out. But EU should import more. Mostly the Bot lane. What weird about NA is that they sometimes import on the strengths rather the weaknesses. But EU rarely imports at all even when some area's have clear weaknesses. (language of coarse is a bigger issue in EU than NA)
: get gankedmaster darius?
> [{quoted}](name=Bros b4 Bros,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wF0a23Ta,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-11T03:29:08.663+0000) > > get gankedmaster darius? I laughed They have to do it with every player if they did it with one player.
: RIP NA
No I expected Fnatic to win. They are better then C9.
Gahaha (NA)
: Finally Dyrus retired
Dryus is not the weaklink in TSM. TSM has bad coaching or ownership. It always goes back to the top with TSM when they have a problem they never fix it. The team is still relies too much on bjergsen to win. Wildturtle has yet to improve and they shafted Keith at one misstep. How many times has Wildturtle died first in a teamfight just this worlds. IDK if Dyrus communicate was still a problem likely clearly Dyrus motivation is not with the team(that even could be a management problem). TSM pick and ban well it got better at least still not good. It not the same management issues as CLG, In fact I even say CLG seemed to fix many of them. That the nicest thing I say about CLG. Sure their are many problems with the players. But the management doesn't take steps to fix them.
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PoisonedTea

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