: All your really doing with the champion resistance tweaks, is making them tankier for a short period of time. (Much like what gargoyle plate does). I want tanks to be tanky in general, not just though instances when they are using abilities/items.
It depends on the tank. For someone that wants to chain cc for their team, more burst protection is a lot more useful than sustained bulwarking. A Warden, however, needs more tankiness throughout a fight to make longer trades and utilize their generally weaker cc more times.
: Thoughts on rebalancing tanks
Changes need to be made to both tank classes so they have better defined roles. Right now a lot of Vanguards, who's job is to initiate fights with cc chains, are either doing ridiculous damage themselves, or standing around in a fight repeatedly using their cc over and over. The distinction, I think, should be that Vanguards have longer cooldowns on their crowd control and lower sustained health for fights in exchange for better crowd control and better upfront burst resistance. Their damage should also be tied to scaling rather than on the base skills, so they can build as a diver, but have the drawbacks of that class by doing so. {{champion:54}} and {{champion:113}} have passives that do just that, letting them soak the brunt of an initial attack but having to back off afterward. {{champion:12}}'s ult would also qualify, but it lasts so long it ends up protecting against both burst and sustained damage. Wardens on the other hand are supposed to be deterrents against enemy engages. They bolster their allies' defenses or hard stop damage from getting to them at all. Historically, they have had many traits in common with Juggernauts, lacking engage tools and having lower crowd control in exchange for better outright fighting power to punish opponents that close in on their team. Unlike Juggernauts (excepting {{champion:82}} ) though, Wardens also lack the "stickiness" of their fighter-class analogs. They lack pulls like {{champion:122}}, {{champion:106}}, or {{champion:420}}, and can't chase people down like {{champion:77}}, {{champion:86}}, or {{champion:2}}. They trade both engage and stickiness for peel, but this leaves them in a hard spot compared to the playmaking Vangard class. So, I think Wardens should trade off some up front burst protection and chain crowd control for more sustained protection and more dueling power. They can afford more base damage in their kits because they have lower engage potential to use that damage. {{champion:223}} is a Warden that fulfills all of these aspects. His shield is based on the damage he's soaked recently which makes him focus more on staying in a fight for a long time than on mitigating huge initial bursts, all of his damage spells are built around staying in a fight for extended trades, and his tongue lash is up frequently enough to briefly stun often in a fight. Some Vangards have traits that would be better suited for a Warden meant to soak long-lasting damage and stick through an entire fight -- {{champion:32}} everlasting flat physical damage reduction, {{champion:57}} and {{champion:79}}'s repeated healing, {{champion:33}}'s taunt and auto-attack punishing nature, {{champion:14}} outclassing every tank of both classes, et al. And conversely, some Wardens have more burst protection but fall hard to sustained damage, largely defeating the point of being damage soakers- {{champion:3}} gets a brief damage reduction on his taunt and a small shield against magic burst, but that's it, while {{champion:20}}'s rework gave him hard engage tools and long, but infrequent cc-chains. Probably the easiest way to shift the two tank classes into these distinctions would be as such: Lower base damage of Vanguards across the board, increase their AD/AP scaling on these abilities (Don't tie damage reduction/healing/shielding to AD/AP) Lower the Hp5 on Vanguards to keep them from sticking around and make their trades have a bigger risk associated with them Increase the amount of burst protection offered on kits that have them, but with lower duration Increase their base health per level Increase the Hp5 on Wardens, but slightly lower their base health values, particularly health per level On Wardens' CC skills, lower their damage while also lowering their cooldowns These changes don't require adding to any existing abilities that could address specific champions, but does cover the broad strokes of both classes. Wardens would need case-by-case sustain enhancements and Vanguards case-by-case burst protection to really drive the distinctions.
: Death's dance now heals for ALL damage dealt
: Neeko's coming out soon, so let's discuss how to deal with her
Her W has another easy tell as well, even if she moves in a line with it, the clone will always be in front if she comes from the fog of war with it, and otherwise if she sends it forward before moving in herself, she'll show up after her invisibility wears off immediately if you position back for literally half a second. The bigger thing to look out for is "out of position" enemy champions at low health. Basically play the same way you would against a campy jungler and assume someone coming in overly aggressively is really a high-health Neeko and not a low-health Jinx.
Sizzl0r (NA)
: {{champion:78}}{{item:3742}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sizzl0r,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAX7g859,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-04T04:11:38.894+0000) > > {{champion:78}}{{item:3742}} (laughs in {{item:3071}} invalidating Poppy's entire build)
Rioter Comments
: Anyone else think celerity is just dumb?
The rune is in sorcery only as a relic of mages taking 4.5% move speed quints. Just move it to Insperation as the 4.5% in place of the garbage slot that is Minion Dematerlializer and swap Future Market with the bonus 5% CDR so the slot has competition.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
Rakan is strong without Xayah. The extra dashback range and recall gimmicks don't effect his strong engages in any way. Xayah though seems a bit reliant on Rakan's empowered autos to take down towers and get strong skirmishes going. Maybe make her AS steroid stronger for her, but only partially effective for Rakan so she can more reasonably take objectives and fights on with other supports.
: Please don't release Neeko with
{{champion:1}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:112}} are the champions that she should be compared to for damage. They're all medium-range burst mages without mobility. Yeah Neeko has a movement speed boost on stealth, but it doesn't change her range of engagement or pokes. Annie gets 470 + 165% AP divided across her two main spells, and full burst with Tibbers gets 870 +230% AP, add onto that Tibbers's aura and attacks on the enemy when summoned for about 1010 +280% AP Neeko has way more damage on her Q alone than in Annie's normal spells, so we should look at her full combo as well. 650 + 130% on ult, 220 +40% on E, and 500 +90% on Q for a total of 1370 + 260% AP With the ratios being so close, the damage should realistically be so as well, with just a nudge more base on Neeko since Annie has more followup damage potential and Neeko needs to hard engage for her ult. So, Q base damage: 80/125/170/215/260 , 40/60/80/100/120 x2 -> 80/120/160/200/240, 40/55/70/85/100 x2 R base damage: 200/425/650 -> 200/350/500
Moody P (NA)
: illaoi isn't CC immune during ult
Okay, not completely cc immune, but still Unstoppable. The same goes for {{champion:19}}'s latched Q and R.
Rioter Comments
: electrocute and arcane comet deal that damage anytime. Dark Harvest only deals extra damage when the enemy is below half health.
Which is why 1.25x damage. That's only about 12 stacks needed to reach that point at level 18, which is easily doable between Doran's Shield and jungle health regen nerfs being dictated by missing health.
Rioter Comments
: How do you guys feel about being able to pick your own stats?
I'll repost what I've said on this before Instead of an "Offense, Flex, Defense" stat shards, there should be a Focused rune two Minor runes, with more options akin to the older system but with none of the headache of minutia. Also making value changes to compensate the base stat changes from preseason 8 that were never properly tuned for the missing runes and masteries. Focus slot (Choose one): 10 Adaptive Force, 8 Armor, 10 MR, 35-155 Health, 12% AS, 1-10% CDR (at levels 1-10) Minor slots (Choose two with no repeats): 5 AF, 6 AR, 6 MR, 35 Health, 6% AS, 4% Hybrid Penetration, 3% Movement Speed
: This preseason patch has proven how grossly incompetent the current riot balance team is
Don't forget with ~~masteries renamed~~ runes reforged, champions got base stat boosts and base damage boosts on their spells. Then got access to additional starting AD/AP from runes. The addition of armor and MR runes back is a pittance compared to the 20 adaptive force offensive classes get. Compare {{champion:92}} 9 AD reds, 9 armor yellows, 3 AD quints = 15 AD 9 Armor And a tank {{champion:78}} 9 AD reds, 9 armor yellows, 3 armor quints = 9 AD and 21.8 Armor To these same champions even with the new stat shards {{champion:92}} 8 base AD increase, 9 base AR increase, two ad shards, one AR shard = 20 AD, 14 AR {{champion:78}} 8 Base AD increase, 9 base AR increase, two ar shard, one ad shard = 14 AD and 19 AR Fighters are slightly tankier, while tanks themselves are squishier, and damage stats are up across the board. This is to say nothing of the removal of masteries like Siegemaster, Legendary Guardian, Veteran's Scars, Fearless, Unyielding (+1.5 AR from the start with runes and other masteries), and Tough Skin, which offered upwards of 38 extra armor against burst and poke damage. Compare those to the only masteries to grant offensive stats: Fury grants 4% AS and Fervor of Battle grants a slow build up of AD for extended trades or duels, up to +8 AD max to start off.
nick205 (NA)
: Speaking of Ezreal, any thoughts on reworking Manamune? I think that more champions should be able to utilize this item, even if the item is slightly weaker or stronger on Ezreal.
Mana-hungry auto weavers just aren't a common set of the cast is the issue. {{champion:236}}'s costs are low enough that an {{item:3508}} is more than enough, and the only other gun mage in the game is {{champion:126}} who doesn't need the mana to burst people.
: Poll- Old runes/masteries or Runes Reforged?
I prefered the option of 29 extra starting armor over not, but there's no reason that shouldn't be doable with the newest version of runes with stat shards. It's just that instead of 9 slots in three categories it would be fewer slots with larger individual differences. Even 29 isn't necessary. Just enough that it matches the gold value of the other rune stats would be enough Instead of an "Offense, Flex, Defense" stat shard there should be a Focused rune a Minor rune, with more options akin to the older system with none of the headache of minutia Focus slot (Choose one): 14 Adaptive Force, 10 Armor, 14 MR, 35-155 Health, 12% AS, 1-10% CDR (at levels 1-10) Minor slots (Choose two): 6 AF, 6 AR, 6 MR, 25 Health, 4% AS, 4% Resistance Penetration, 3% Movement Speed
Terozu (NA)
: Off Meta Suggestion, Gnar Jungle
{{champion:42}} I prefer this guy Jungle. He has 3 great AoE abilities to clear camps and his package ganks are ridiculous. Start W to kite your first buff and you won't even need a leash.
: > [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXdJrkjE,comment-id=0006000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-21T12:09:25.990+0000) > > You mean a .45 second stun and 1.1 second root right? {{item:3111}} {{item:2138}} {{item:3053}} These don't stack additively.
And you don't do math, evidently. 70% x 75% x 70% = 36.75% cc duration And as it turns out, several interactions of tenacity do in fact stack additively. {{item:3111}} + {{item:3053}} absolutely do, by themselves granting 60% tenacity. Together with {{item:2138}} that's 72% tenacity, for a whopping 0.35 second stun and a maximum 0.84 second root. With Legend Tenacity giving another 30%, that's 80.4% tenacity, and with Unflinching's passive component alone granting 20% which stacks additively with Elixir for 45% you get 84.6% tenacity.
: Yeah this is how they design mages.
{{champion:142}} was released literally 2 champions ago.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wolfeur,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXdJrkjE,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-11-21T11:12:20.748+0000) > > What's your point, exactly? There is no knock-up there. And it's not really "stealth", she's still visible. Not a knock up, but a 1.25 second stun with a up to ~~4.5~~ 3 second root duration right after. And yes, it's not stealth, I know.
You mean a .45 second stun and 1.1 second root right? {{item:3111}} {{item:2138}} {{item:3053}}
: The defense rune stat path has another "fake" choice, as usual with health runes
Realistically, it should aim to give an average value of 150 gold of health (since the armor rune does the same) per level That's about 56 health, or 112 at level 18. So something like 30 health at level 1, +5 every level after would make it cap at 115, a much closer approximation to the value it should be.
Ourboros (EUW)
: It can not be allowed to be good because Health is effective vs AD_ and_ AP even better in early. So if the health option is viable neither armor nor mr will be picked up. Its redundant to have it in the game but it can never be viable The real question is why Riot listened and made the decision to bring back stat increases. They dropped the old rune system for a reason. Stat increases are to binary and only trick you into thinking your being creative, when in reality there is a clear best option in each slot and not taking it is setting your self behind before the game even starts
Ah yes because 6 AD 15 health and 5 AR sure is comparable early to 12 AD and 5 AR. Please, the health is pathetic at all levels and the resistances aren't much better.
: Even Scarra's first thought about Neeko W was "a fuck you to Wukong"...
The clone needs a delay before it moves otherwise it's going to be a huge tell since it will always be in front of Neeko when both are moving. The only way it isn't is if Neeko is already moving in a single direction long before using the W and keeps moving in that direction, which with any amount of warding is itself a dead tell which one is real.
: "Lissandra players felt like they had no passive" EXCUSE ME? FREE MANA? WHAT ABOUT WUKONG'S 4 ARMOR?
Nah if you want to talk about no passives, look at {{champion:421}} who's passive reads "Rek'Sai's W does what it's supposed to."
: Say what you want about Hashinshin
Juggernauts out tank and out damage tanks while laughing at their cc Poke champs obliterate a tank's ability to get any gold for items Skirmishers are literally designed to eat tanks Even Divers are doing Tanks' jobs better because of bullshit like Conqueror The only class tanks are beating top, is other tanks or the odd assassin top.
: {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:78}}
And look back literally 2 months where she was bottom of the barrel because none of the champions she counters were being played. Poppy is like Galio where they're only usable because they have binary matchups that hard counter specific metas.
Rioter Comments
: ok that build makes my head hurt. i am a maokai OTP with nearly 1 million mastery points on him and 1000s of games clearly you are playing maokai support... your build should include HP his passive that heals him scales on HP the only hp items you have is {{item:3097}} 125hp {{item:3075}} 250 hp for a total of 375 bonus hp. my typical maokai games i have 3200+ hp nearly every game regardless of top, jungle or support. this is how i would have built as support maokai vs that team comp {{item:3401}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3109}} {{item:3190}} and either a {{item:3800}} or {{item:3065}} or {{item:3083}} lets say you go with {{item:3800}} the stats from your items {{item:3401}} 350hp {{item:3401}} 200% base hp regen 10 % cdr {{item:3143}} 400hp 60 armor plus AOE slow active, reduced attack speed on any one hitting you and reduced crit damage taken ({{champion:157}} {{champion:119}} crits) {{item:3047}} 20 armor blocks 12% of damage from autos (works against draven,yas, shy, and even thresh autos and any autos from aatrox plus if those autos are crits it blocks 12% of the crit damage ) {{item:3109}} 250 hp 40 armor 10% cdr ( helps protect your adc or what carry you need to with the passives and gives you bonus armor and ms towards those you use it on ) {{item:3190}} 30 armor 60 mr + shield for entire team which scales on BONUS HP ( this should be more then enough MR vs that team comp ) {{item:3800}} 400 hp 300 mana 30 armor 100 % base hp regen 10% cdr + active to help you engage so lets add this up 1400 bonus hp 180 bonus armor ( plus all the passives from the items like AS slow, Crit reduction 12% reduction from auto damage ) 60 mr 30% cdr 300 % base hp regen 300 mana with maokai's base stats at lvl 16 1940 hp 97 armor 50 mr 1000 mana with out runes gives you grand total of 3340 hp 277 armor 110 mr 1300 mana which with all the items passives + runes will make you nearly an unkillable monster and if you go aftershock , boneplating, conditioning, and overgrowth + mana flow ban + transcendence you will have about +200 more hp another free 18armor for 299 armor and 14 free mr for 124 mr +250 mana and another 10% cdr for a total of 40% cdr + regen from mana flow ban passive. not forgetting the free armor/mr you get from aftershock every 35 seconds when you cc/engage a target
I appreciate the detailed feedback as opposed to the one-line "your build sucks" responces. Would a general rule of for every 1000 health go for 100 combined resistances work?
Nirvinian (EUW)
: I don't think its a matter of who is tankier here . . aatrox, apparently based on itemization builds, deals a lot more damage . . or atleast SHOULD. So that is why you cannot kill him before he does to you. You have health, armor, and resistance. He has . . damage, armor penetration and a bit of lethality . . all that shreds defense builds.
I'm not even talking about the one-on-one duel. I'm talking about how a 360+ armor maokai against a full AD comp mitigates less damage than a champion with no innate shield, no damage reduction, and no resistance boosters against a mixed damage team with a build that has a grand total of 90 MR and 100 AR.
: Yeah. There’s like almost no health built {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmpUALVY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-16T17:21:10.806+0000) > > Yeah. There’s like almost no health built {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} I didn't know building health would increase my damage mitigated. Care to elaborate?
Rioter Comments
: When will riot admit they made mistake with Pyke as champion ?
I just hate his Execute threshold scaling with Lethality. The point of lethality is that its counter is armor, but building heavily on armor means less health, which means the execute kills 1/3 health tanks. Especially annoying when so many tanky characters get an increase to their staying power only when on low health -- {{champion:78}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:19}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 14
The walk animations look great. Except for Fiora. Her's looks like a shitty prealpha version of an animation that's meant to play during her ult or W. Certianly not on her default walk though. A smaller criticism is on Shaco. I feel he would look better with his arms drawn more forward throughout the animation. The large swing back makes the stroll look more casual and aloof than playfully sadistic. Keep the same animation but draw the arm bones rotated more forward on every frame.
Spearki (EUW)
: Can we talk about the off meta video O.o
Now my Support Vi and Xin Zhao will get far less reports.
Rioter Comments
BuddyRoo (NA)
: Most useless passives in the whole game?
{{champion:421}} literally has no passive. All her passive does is describe how her W works. It would be like if {{champion:78}}'s passive was "Enemies hit by Hammer Shock take 8% health physical damage per hit" {{champion:83}} {{champion:143}}'s are similar but at least functionally do something without them having to learn Q or W respectively.
Rioter Comments
: Whether you like it or not, CC does, in fact, counter every melee champion not named Olaf
{{champion:11}} immune to slows and can Q on reaction to every other cc ability {{champion:56}} spell shield {{champion:114}} Literally has an ability that gets stronger if you try to cc her {{champion:23}} can R even while CCd {{champion:39}} W lasts through all CC and grants damage reduction {{champion:12}} R cleanses all cc {{champion:86}} Has 80% tenacity {{champion:254}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:54}} are cc immune in their engage {{champion:41}} oranges any cc attempt {{champion:420}} Also cc immune during her ult {{champion:240}} Has a get out of jail free card when he gets caught out by any cc
: How annyoing is brand support!?!
He just needs a nerf on his W's AoE size or detonation time. From the time its cast to when it deals damage is fast enough that even with {{item:1001}} most adcs and supports can't dodge it even moving preemptively if he literally clicks the ability hovering over them. It deals damage in its area faster than most characters can move from its center to its outer edge without a dash, blink, or huge movement speed boost.
falcon999 (EUNE)
: you forgot these {{champion:432}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:61}} and this also {{champion:13}} {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
Bard and Karma are catchers and enchanters respectively.
: Theres no such thing as tanks anymore
Why list 6/11 fighters when listing "tanks"?
: {{champion:267}}
Enchanter with a Catcher's Q, not a mage support. {{champion:34}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:25}} are the most typical mage supports.
: > [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLmc6Ubw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-12T15:57:47.456+0000) > > Because 1 is a lower number than 2. and 0% AS boost is smaller than 60%. But her E also deals percent max HP damage, which her old kit never did, and it also grants her a 30% move speed boost - on top of doubling as a dash if she hasn't been in combat for a few seconds (again, something her old kit never had). I would recommend having a familiarity with her new kit if you're going to try to argue against it.
You're missing the point. Her old E applied two instances of on-hit effects (in addition to scaling with AD like every other on-hit ability) and had a brief window of huge attack speed to apply more. Q procs, charm procs, and E doing % health damage scaling with AP don't scale or synergies with on-hit effects at all.
: Warwick fills this niche because he's a diving, semi-tanky jungler who deals mixed damage - something Evelynn was actually never intended to be, but was forced to be after constant nerfs. New Evelynn has just as many on-hit effects though. Her E applies on hit, just like her old E did. She also has the bonus of Q giving her bonus on hit damage to proc, as well as W adding a slow/charm for on-hit. So not getting where she's not got any on-hit effects, when she has so many more instances of it.
Because 1 is a lower number than 2. and 0% AS boost is smaller than 60%.
Rioter Comments
: Why should inting sion even be viable??
Bounties in S9 will be factored by CS as well, so he can't just free farm to get his items without giving up a lot of gold.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: PSA: If you've never played on Twisted Treeline, you're not gonna get gold on the last day
I just played on TT since I was board of SR and there were four bots between both teams. Is this a normal occurrence?
: "JG wont gank my lane"
Most of these points are mutually contradictory. If you don't push outside of your tower you can't ward the river If you don't let the enemy cs your lane will push out If you let waves push to your side you're losing lane.
Eedat (NA)
: Ardent was the worst meta of all time imo. Absolutely nothing mattered but getting ardent for your burst-per-second demi-god ADC. Top laners were bot lane's TP bitch and the only thing that mattered for mid and jungle was ganking bot lane
Sounds like the current meta. 4 - 5-man tower dives bot 7 minutes in, jungler and mid camping bot whenever their camps or waves are on cooldown, Top being completely irrelevant. Just with poke and hard trading kill lanes bot instead of enchanters.
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