: If you can't interpret data correctly, that's your problem. That's like picking a team of 5 champions with a winrate of 50+% and expecting to win because the combined winrate is higher than 250%.
> [{quoted}](name=LordRedStone Nr1,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HeQ1P921,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-19T08:52:40.828+0000) > > If you can't interpret data correctly, that's your problem. > That's like picking a team of 5 champions with a winrate of 50+% and expecting to win because the combined winrate is higher than 250%. Win so hard your next 4 losses give you LP gains. Flawless.
Rioter Comments
: Honor Orbs/Rewards are a complete joke.
In addition to the Grey Warwick and Medieval Twitch skins, it would be nice to get the new player reward skins and/or ward shards from honor For those unware, new players get a Waterloo Miss Fortune shard for doing missions exclusive to new accounts and two random ward shards during the 1-30 leveling. I believe Sherwood Ashe and Sanguine Garen use to be given for new player missions as well.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u1VQonAY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:19:04.817+0000) > > Stat shards could stand to have more options, but the micro gaming of 0.9 armor reds isn't worth it. > > Instead of "offense," "defense," and, "flex," a primary stat shard (basically the value of around 2 quints or 6 of the highest value rune), and 2 minor shard (valued around 6 "off" runes like armor or AP reds) would allow flexible and meaningful changes for matchups without the micro management of the old system > > One interesting alternative could be having a Major shard, a minor shard, and a separate scaling shard to recreate things like big boi full armor or taking scaling MR into an AD lane with three other AP enemies > > Some examples > > > Major shards: 12 Armor, 16 Magic Resist, 60 Health, 15 adaptive force, +14% Attack Speed,+ 7.5% CDR, +3% Movement Speed > > Minor shards: 5 Armor, 6 Magic Resist, 20 Health, 6 adaptive force, +12.5% crit damage, +6% attack speed, +2.5% CDR , +25% base resource regen > > Scaling shards: (up to) 16 armor, 20 Magic Resist, 80 Health, 20 adaptive force, +10% CDR > > This is overall less than the numbers of the old system, but it's also keeping in mind the base stat increases from ~~Masteries Renamed~~ Runes Reforged > > And no crit chance because invisible random trade wins aren't conducive to positive gameplay. The 1% early game win is why bot used to be fun. Anyone could turn around a lane at any moment.
> [{quoted}](name=AFK Yuumi Main,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u1VQonAY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:29:37.013+0000) > > The 1% early game win is why bot used to be fun. Anyone could turn around a lane at any moment. I think crit damage is fine enough. It means the first back {{item:3086}} is weighted in favor of the one taking the riskier lane start rune while having enough unique interactions of its own to contribute over the raw random chance. {{champion:114}} , {{champion:22}}, {{champion:51}}, etc with guaranteed crit mechanics.
: Bring back ACTUAL glyphs.
Stat shards could stand to have more options, but the micro gaming of 0.9 armor reds isn't worth it. Instead of "offense," "defense," and, "flex," a primary stat shard (basically the value of around 2 quints or 6 of the highest value rune), and 2 minor shard (valued around 6 "off" runes like armor or AP reds) would allow flexible and meaningful changes for matchups without the micro management of the old system One interesting alternative could be having a Major shard, a minor shard, and a separate scaling shard to recreate things like big boi full armor or taking scaling MR into an AD lane with three other AP enemies Some examples Major shards: 12 Armor, 16 Magic Resist, 60 Health, 15 adaptive force, +14% Attack Speed,+ 7.5% CDR, +3% Movement Speed Minor shards: 5 Armor, 6 Magic Resist, 20 Health, 6 adaptive force, +12.5% crit damage, +6% attack speed, +2.5% CDR , +25% base resource regen Scaling shards: (up to) 16 armor, 20 Magic Resist, 80 Health, 20 adaptive force, +10% CDR This is overall less than the numbers of the old system, but it's also keeping in mind the base stat increases from ~~Masteries Renamed~~ Runes Reforged And no crit chance because invisible random trade wins aren't conducive to positive gameplay.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: so essentially you coulda just said: "i don't like the chosen champs" instead of writing all this. champs getting yearly skins is common, jinx has been on this trend for years now. how dare they not wait 2 months so it's exactly 1 year since her last one. I see this shit every time, it's not as bad as for ez and lux but every damn time she gets a skin someone starts bitching about favouritism, but i still ain't forgetting these boards not saying a damned thing about jhin getting 3 skins in 1 damned year. genuinly done taking these posts serious, you guys show the same favouritism riot does. i'll agree pyke is a bit fast, but he fits the line better than like 90% of the cast.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cohLRAVg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:02:17.192+0000) > > so essentially you coulda just said: "i don't like the chosen champs" instead of writing all this. > > champs getting yearly skins is common, jinx has been on this trend for years now. how dare they not wait 2 months so it's exactly 1 year since her last one. > > I see this shit every time, it's not as bad as for ez and lux but every damn time she gets a skin someone starts bitching about favouritism, but i still ain't forgetting these boards not saying a damned thing about jhin getting 3 skins in 1 damned year. > genuinly done taking these posts serious, you guys show the same favouritism riot does. > > i'll agree pyke is a bit fast, but he fits the line better than like 90% of the cast. OP said nothing about not liking the champions in question. OP is taking issue with the blatent favoritism on Riot's part. Several champions have gone by the wayside for skins since their launch while the same few keep getting more and more. {{champion:203}} got a single skin since their launch while others like {{champion:516}} {{champion:163}} haven't gotten a new skin since launch (since Pro Team skins aren't counted) Just be glad there isn't a $2000 Project {{champion:81}} Prestige Edition I guess
Rioter Comments
iiGazeii (NA)
: I mean, if we're going from how things "feel", it goes the other way, too. If somebody uses a magic ability to keep eyes on the elusive ninja, that ability should keep working through a smoke bomb. From a balance perspective, I think keeping things simple (as simple as Akali can get, I guess) is the right way to go. No special interactions or weird vision-cleanse effects, just simple invisibility. They just buffed the cooldown of her shroud from 25 to 20 seconds. Combined with the fact that the cooldown starts on cast, she'll have 25% uptime on her shroud at rank 1, versus live, where she has 17% uptime. Her shroud will be active almost twice as much as it was before, so I think it's fine to let her be reveal-able if she gets lots of opportunities to use it.
She would still be revealed under this proposition.
Rioter Comments
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
Also not mentioned is how juggernauts, divers, and skirmishers often do tanks' jobs better. Why pick a champion that relies on team to follow up CC when you can just pick {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:31}} and kill the enemies you CC on your own while also getting to build damage to wave clear and take objectives better than tanks? They don't even have the honor of being the most durable champions, other than {{champion:14}} with infinite stacking health. That honor goes to juggernauts like {{champion:36}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:75}} or champions with straight up invincibility/damage mitigation to last longer than the 2 seconds straight tanks ever could {{champion:23}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:44}} (hey look a tank that can live more than 2 seconds in a fight) There's a reason the only time tanks have been viable in solo queue is when they're building full damage or have access to massive free damage elsewhere {{champion:78}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}}
: I played {{champion:78}} and vs a {{champion:10}} i built against her {{item:3143}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3194}} and it did nothing because she built {{item:3124}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3153}} i was levels ahead and items ahead but because she had 0 ad attack speed items she melted me. if you cant build against it it shuld not be in the game
>>Builds armor, grievous wounds, and crit reduction against an AP champ gosh I wonder why she beat you {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Xavanic (NA)
: can we get an AP lifeline item?
{{item:3040}} is a manual lifeline with 99+ AP attached bare minimum (That is, on a level 1 {{champion:222}}, who has the lowest mana of any champion with AP ratios)
Fluffeh (NA)
: {{item:3512}} {{item:3800}}
> [{quoted}](name=Fluffeh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eln0xjkE,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-07-08T21:22:22.420+0000) > > {{item:3512}} {{item:3800}} Both better on juggernauts/split pushers than tanks. Unless you are the type to call any champion with remote survivabilty a tank -- {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:77}}
: Why are tanks the only role without a high impact item?
Because nontanks ruin tank items by using them better than tanks ever could {{champion:31}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3110}} {{champion:2}} {{item:3800}} {{champion:81}} {{item:3025}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:19}} {{item:3065}} Every single splitpusher {{item:3742}} {{champion:16}} {{item:3083}} All tanks have to their name is {{item:3068}} which gives laughable stats for its gold cost, and {{item:3001}} exclusively on Magic-dealing tanks Oh and {{item:3109}} for support, the only position tanks have any meaningful presence in.
PB4UAME (NA)
: Everything here is 100% correct, could those who downvoted please explain why? I'm legitimately confused here. He's even scattered the maths for this across other replies throughout the thread, many of which are heavily upvoted.
"He" {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Dude you've been found out. No need to keep up the same- - -ging
: I like the idea of it being AOE, but without any real reference for how long a .25 second delay is, I wouldn't want Melee's to be just more fucked than ranged folk, just for sake of being melee. I'd want it to be at least somewhat fair enough to be able to dodge potentially, but like said, not too familiar with how a .25 second delay feels.
As noted by the *, the numbers are just rough figures to illustrate the ability itself. It could be anywhere from a 0.1 to a 0.5 second delay. If you want something that can be reacted to, factoring in a ping of 70 ms, the reaction needed time to say, Fiora or Garen W his fear, would be around 400 ms (0.4 s). Though, you don't always want a game like league to test reactions as much as you want to reward smart predictions. A shorter delay would do just that -- give time to see Fiddle ult in and make a snap prediction if he will fear right away or delay it to play around your counter ability (without the buffering of a point and click ability, his fear would also have an additional delay equal to the ping in questio).
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: No ADC is building armor penetration, why is this not talked about?
AD outscales armor point for point at a rate of about 1.5x (That is, with equal health and base AD and armor, AD's additional damage scales at 1.5x the rate of Armor's damage reduction). The cost of the basic level armor and AD items accounts for this difference nearly evenly -- {{item:1029}} costs 20g per armor, and {{item:1036}} costs 35g per point of AD. Three problems arise though: 1.) Runes, both named runes and stat shards, massively favor damage over either resistance, with shards granting a total of 375g of AD or 240g of Armor. Named runes are the same way with Absolute Focus granting 63-227g of AD passively while the equivalent defensive rune shield bash grants 20-80g of early armor and isn't usable on half the tanks in the game. 2.) Armor and MR are less gold efficient than raw health until champions reach around 1300 health, and then bounces between which is more gold efficient as more of all three are obtained. This differs by champion based on their base health and resistances so is just the general rule 3.) Completed armor items only grant 70 - 85% their gold worth of armor, while completed AD items give 110+% gold value of AD So those three together mean that early armor is a poor purchase into AD and that late game AD items hard outscale armor items. Those are the primary reasons tanks have their highest winrates in the mid-game: it's the only point where armor means anything. And with games either ending in the first 20 minutes or dragging on well past the midgame, there's few times when armor pen is a necessary stat at all. There's also the issue that Tanks need to optimize against both damage types, hindering their ability to build efficiently against either as well as slowing their csing, while damage picks only need to build damage which boosts both their income from wave clear as well as their power in fights.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 5
Changing to normal invisibility sounds like a great path to open up {{champion:84}}'s power budget, but I think there's roomto push it just a little bit in that regard -- make Akali revealed as normal by things like {{champion:4}} ult or {{champion:64}}, but with catch: If an effect is granting true sight of Akali when she activates W, have that sight cleared. So she still becomes vulnerable to sight after using her smokescreen, but if she can activate the smokescreen for the intended purpose -- removing vision. I'm not sure if I'm wording this all properly, but basically the idea is something like {{champion:41}} oranges where it cleanses CC on use but he can still be effected by cc afterward.
vrasidaros (EUNE)
: How do I cs properly?
There's a lot of tricks for laning, farming, trading, and last hitting so I'll try to cover what I can as succinctly as I can. Best tip I can give is play manaless champions. {{champion:86}} is extremely good for learning fundimentals since he can prep waves under tower with E and win trades with Grasp Q. Other champions are "near" manaless and assist in last hitting like {{champion:1}} or {{champion:69}}, who get mana back if they last hit with their abilities. AD champs in general are easier to cs with since they have a wider range to last hit with. If tanky champions are more your thing, go with ones that have high base AD like {{champion:78}} or {{champion:14}}. It isn't just about hitting minions right before they die otherwise; if you glance at your AD, glance their health when left clicking the minion, and see where their health bar is when they are in range for your auto to kill, you'll see that often you can hit the minion with a decent chunk of their bar left. Melee minions are harder to last hit but give about twice the value of casters so it is better to emphasize learning and managing them first over focusing the entire wave. To last hit under tower takes different techniques for the different minion types. Against Melee minions, a tower will remove 45% of their health with each shot, leaving them in range to be last hit instantly with 10% left. Casters are a little harder here. You have to prime the casters with an extra auto before the tower shoots them, then auto again afterward to last hit. High AS champions like {{champion:24}} can circumvent this by simply hitting with two autos after a single tower shot. Cannons follow normal last hitting rules; just watch their health while priming the casters and try to hit right before the last tower shot lands. "cs"ing is a very broad term and so far I've only talked about last hitting, which is only one aspect of farming. If the minion wave crashes on your side of the lane, watch your opponent. If they are actively priming your minions to push into your tower, you have to attack their wave back to try and keep it where it is. If your lane opponent is missing or too far away to last hit, focus the melee minions, then when you have the minion advantage you can rush forward and freely trade against the enemy making them give up the valuable melee minions of your own wave. If you force them to miss melees and only let them take casters, you will end up quite far ahead in gold with equal CS, and even with as low as 60% their cs numbers. When the enemy is away and don't look like they are going to be back soon, take out the melees with last hits, then wait for the next wave to crash together. Focus the casters immediately leaving 3 melees behind and do what you can to last hit -- you'll end up with around 5-6 casters and 3-4 melees on your side ready to siege their tower and cause the enemy to miss a huge amount of farm to their tower while they're gone. If you just want to set up a slow push and roam to another lane, you don't need to clear entire waves worth. Get your minoins and the enemy minions equal, then simply clear the casters and roam to another lane. What ends up happening is your side slowly builds up a huge wave to hard push on its own and force someone to split off and deal with it. Depending on how fast you can roam and roam back, you can in turn hard punish the person trying to pick up that 15+ wave as they'll be taking 200-500 minion damage when you pick a fight with them. Last is freezing. If you have a champion with strong trading power and want to emphasize farm, let the enemy push their wave and just focus on last hitting. Once the wave is far on your side, right before your tower, rush the opponent to get them to back off, then hit minions so there is 3 casters + 1 melee or 4 casters on the enemy wave while your wave is gone. Keep the wave there until your next minion set comes to meet them, then stop. Only last hit melees (higher gold value) and keep the enemy wave constantly 4 minions above yours. The minion wave will stay where it is for an extremely long time (several minutes) and keep your opponent from getting farm of their own since you as a strong trading champion can threaten a kill easily.
Mc Raton (NA)
: Okay Nerf or Rework Tryndamere, it's not funny anymore.
The worst part is you can completely stomp him in lane and get first tower while yours still has 4 plates, but the second you leave to push with the team in bot or mid or take objectives, trynd just starts ignoring the rest of the game and takes two towers in two waves.
Moody P (NA)
: That's not how hard counters work. Tanks all massively outvalue fighters when it comes time to team fight; bruisers and juggernauts having the means to punch through defenses is not a hard counter. Volibear is one of the worst examples you could pick, too. His % damage is on one spell with the caveat that you're airborn or dashing. Anything else he does you buy Tabi and Adaptive Helm and boom, you've successfully itemized against his entire kit.
Okay. There's a reason there is only a single tank above the 50th percentile of top laners, and it's {{champion:223}}. Every other tank top is in the bottom bracket with {{champion:78}} sitting under 21 bruisers and 8 ranged champions. The ones that aren't in the bottom half of top laners were forced out of the lane entirely -- {{champion:3}} {{champion:111}}
Mult (EUNE)
: That chart is quite incorrect. Not to say it doesn't kind of make sense, but it's inaccurate in displaying the current state of top lane. Here's the update version for top lane: Mages > Tanks Mages > Bruisers Top Marksmen > Tanks Top Marksmen > Bruisers Tanks > Bruisers Tanks > Assassins Bruisers > Maybe assassins, sometimes And this is not even pointing out the fact that a jungler gets immense value from sitting top lane for a mage or a marksman. And sometimes a hard snowballing bruiser.
Divers, Skirmishers, and Juggernauts all hard counter tanks. Half of them have kits specifically deisgned to invalidate tanks' resistences and those who don't have mixed damage or drain tank better than a tank can. {{champion:266}} turns the health tanks build into his own {{champion:122}} gets a free {{item:3036}} {{champion:36}} soaks damage better than any tank while chunking %health and mixed damage tanks can't build against {{champion:420}} %health damage and a passive that fucks over the immobile melee ranged tanks more than any other class {{champion:86}} free {{item:3071}} and soaks more damage while building no resistances thanks to W {{champion:41}} true damage and continual harass prevents tanks from getting any farm, outscales them if they evne start to pick up scraps later {{champion:114}} %health true damage, cc immune {{champion:39}} mixed damage and free AS stacking on minions means she can auto win any trade while denying farm at the same time {{champion:24}} see irelia {{champion:126}} mixed damage, mixed pen, %health damage, harass, and a get out of jail free card against any gank {{champion:82}} free {{item:3135}}, 0 cooldown instant wave clear Q, wider faster swain Q, %health damage, and better healing adn shielding than most tanks get {{champion:75}} Health built just makes him lifesteal more, %armor pen on a magic damage nuke {{champion:80}} Ranged harass, able to completely deny grasp procs with passive which also shuts off most trading in general. Luckily he at least loses later {{champion:58}} free super {{item:3071}} better healing than tanks get, better cc than tanks get {{champion:92}} more chain cc than several tanks, bigger issue is how freely and instantly she stacks {{item:3071}} and conquerer {{champion:68}} An actually fair one. No shred, no pen, no %health, low damage poke. Q base damage is ridiculous compared to anything tanks have but falls off {{champion:48}} Not sure I need to explain how stealing % resistances is literally made to kill tanks {{champion:23}} considered him to be "fair" outside of making the entire game revolve around him ignoring everyone and freepushing, but then I remembered he gets free crits which hard counter tanks {{champion:83}} large %health and mixed damage, but the bigger issue is like tryndamere he just ignores everyone else and makes the game revolve around his free pushes. "fair" otherwise {{champion:62}} free {{item:3071}} {{champion:106}} %health mixed damage tanks can't build against {{champion:157}} free super {{item:3036}}, ranged harass, free shield stronger than any tank has level 1-3, still stronger than most after 3 That's just the laners the jungle is full of other tank shredders -- {{champion:254}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:11}} And of course, every fighter that doesn't have inherit tank melting can just build {{item:3071}}/{{item:3135}} and render tanks completely unable to 1v1 for the rest of the game by offsetting the gold value of health/resistances to the point that anything past 228 res/3000 health becomes completely wasted gold for the tank.
: gangplank is just like any other toxic top laner.
I too watch Hashinshin run into barels as a champ gangplank counters.
Obiwon84 (NA)
: I think the problem is bruisers are not fast enough. In my opinion they should not be kite able indefinitely. Perhaps Darius or other melee top should get more base movement speed and some built in tenacity. There models are huge with big legs why should they run slowly.
> [{quoted}](name=Obiwon84,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ybm8OeLU,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-07-07T02:35:31.930+0000) > > I think the problem is bruisers are not fast enough. In my opinion they should not be kite able indefinitely. Perhaps Darius or other melee top should get more base movement speed and some built in tenacity. There models are huge with big legs why should they run slowly. Nothing is wrong with Bruisers. other than them being you know, overtuned and tankier than tanks while outdamaging assassins, I mean there's nothing they have bad. Ranged tops are the issue because those champions' primary weakness of not having escape doesn't really matter when there's no reason for the jungle to gank against them. There is nothing of value on the top side of the map for 90% of laning phase where a jungler could be pressuring bot and mid to get priority of drakes. It's basically a weakness triangle, except it goes Bruisers > Tanks Bruisers > Assassins Assassins > Ranged Ranged > Bruisers Ranged > Tanks Assassins > Tanks Gromp > Tanks Scuttle Crab > Tanks
Rioter Comments
: In my opinion Spirit Visage and Adaptive need better build paths
The issue with {{item:3065}} especially is that it' power is mostliy locked behind its passive, which is completely busted on champions like {{champion:36}} {{champion:420}} that base heal for their entire health pool and with visage can heal faster than burst hits them. While it's busted on them, actual tanks are relatively low on healing you have {{champion:57}} {{champion:79}}{{champion:12}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:154}}, less than half the tanks have healing, and of those only {{champion:223}} has bulk enough healing to receive significant benefits from {{item:3065}}. {{champion:201}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} are all left having the build it because it's the highest raw MR and Health, while still not having near optimal slot efficiency and barely scratching gold efficiency with what, the MR? Nope. The Health? Nope. It just barely reaches gold efficiency with the Hp5, a stat which has near 0 value past the very beginning of laning phase. Meanwhile the AP champs it's meant to go against get {{item:3089}} which is above 100% gold efficient even with literally 0 other AP, and only goes up in efficiency from there. {{item:3135}} also hits gold efficiency on anything with 90 or or MR , with anything past that either incrasing Staff's efficiency or decreasing the tank's item value depending on your perspective. This isn't an issue with MR items alone either. Armor items are even worse for slot and gold efficiency, while AD outscales armor at about a 2:3 ratio per gold cost (That is, targets with equal health but opposite armor and AD values (e.g. 150 and 50 vs 50 and 150), the AD wins unless that armor amount is more than 1.5x the AD they're against). {{item:3110}} is the only armor item that pulls its weight for gold, but it has arguably the worst slot efficiency in the game on every champion besides the infinitely scaling heatlh {{champion:14}} {{champion:31}}, and its gold efficiency comes mostly from the superfluous mana it grants and the CDR which, outside of Transcendence builds, is usually overcapped on tanks. In only grants 2000 gold of its raw Armor, which while the most of any item, it also costs 2700 and doesn't even counteract the equivalent raw AD item {{item:3031}}, even with the aura's effect granting 15% extra effective armor (IE grants effectively 125 AD on its own, which not only flaunts the 2:3 ratio, but goes above and beyond by being just straight up even more of its raw stat.) Tank items, especially completed ones, need an entire overhaul. Make {{item:3102}} a tank item again granting the most MR, up {{item:3065}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3068}} health to 500 or grant the equivalent extra resistances -- {{item:3065}} 10 MR, {{item:3194}} 20 MR, {{item:3068}} 10 AR, {{item:3742}} 10 AR. {{item:3065}} would then need its final prize raised by 150-200, while the others would still be fine for their current costs (Yes tank items are that overpriced). Lower {{item:3110}} to 300 mana, increase armor to 120 , increase price to 3000. {{item:3211}} itself also warrants buffs as mentioned. Basically all it does at the moment is cost 350g to open an item slot while building the other components of {{item:3194}}. Even just increasing to 30 MR would make it worth the cost.
vyoda (NA)
: Yuumi “nerf” (idea)
Easier fix -- just make her take a portion of the damage her latch target takes. Even just 10% would keep her from her 0-interactive gameplan and open up a huge amount of power budget for her to have an actual kit. In her current state she's simultaneously useless because she isn't allowed to have real abilities, and completely broken because she can't be interacted with at all while being effectively a free extra IE for her latch target.
Rioter Comments
: And {{champion:32}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:246}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:164}}
{{champion:127}} doesn't have a dash, and only a handful of those you listed have multiple dashes that would be effected by being grounded after the first.
: nah that makes sense, i've seen {{champion:111}} pull after a lux snare
> [{quoted}](name=RainbowIcee,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TEz2XRfV,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-03T01:04:59.627+0000) > > nah that makes sense, i've seen {{champion:111}} pull after a lux snare Not the same. Nautilis can't cast his Q while rooted, but if he is rooted mid Q he will still get the pull. Same with {{champion:89}} or {{champion:32}}. While rooted or grounded those abilities are unavailable, but if they case them before they get rooted they still work. {{champion:59}} can still Q while rooted or grounded though.
arowin242 (EUW)
: Ouch. well, clearly riot is turning poppy in the counter for mobility. cant wait for them to release every new champ with unstoppable dashes included.(or a way to cleanse grounded) knowing Riot they will do exactly this, if not then it means that they learn at least from SOME of there mistakes. (like making mobility far to accessible in the first place.)
> [{quoted}](name=arowin242,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TEz2XRfV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-02T21:10:39.644+0000) > > Ouch. > > well, clearly riot is turning poppy in the counter for mobility. > > cant wait for them to release every new champ with unstoppable dashes included.(or a way to cleanse grounded) knowing Riot they will do exactly this, if not then it means that they learn at least from SOME of there mistakes. (like making mobility far to accessible in the first place.) They already did, and it's surprise surprise, a CertainlyT creation {{champion:19}} is cc immune on not just his ult, but his basic ability Q as well. These changes aren't just to Poppy btw, {{champion:69}} and {{champion:103}} also have anti mobility buffs on PBE (Cass can point-blank miasma and Ahri charm stops people mid-dash)
: > [{quoted}](name=RainbowIcee,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TEz2XRfV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-02T23:01:17.174+0000) > > does grounding affect riven's Q ? yes. It affects ANY mobility spells, including flash.
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TEz2XRfV,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-03T00:25:05.390+0000) > > yes. It affects ANY mobility spells, including flash. But not {{champion:59}} Q still because spaghetti code.
: Kalista sees Poppy's W now grounding units that use movement abilities
{{champion:55}} isn't effected by it actually. Her's is a blink, Poppy's W only stops dashes. {{champion:64}}{{champion:203}} in jg, {{champion:420}}{{champion:39}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:107}} in lane, and {{champion:350}} {{champion:497}} unable to dash into their allies all get majorly impacted though.
: I can just imagine stopping a {{champion:429}} once and then her just standing there autoing frantically confused about why she’s not also hopping
Jungle as well, stopping {{champion:64}} Q2 and his ward hop escape, and keeps {{champion:203}} from getting her AS from Q.
: the lux nerfs.
Aftershock isn't the problem, but these nerfs don't address the problem either. 0 cost nonexistent cooldown 2 second roots are the problem.
Rioter Comments
: Name the only champion in this game
mack9112 (NA)
: Teemo is literally just a lane bully and has no other impact in the game
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e3YybmAU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-01T02:34:34.656+0000) > > Teemo is literally just a lane bully and has no other impact in the game That's part of my point. It's the same with {{champion:223}} where both just make lane phase completely unbearable and miserable for their opponent. Didn't Teemo have a rework lined up at some point?
: Imagine if Teemo had AoE hard CC, a dash, _and_ a global teleport.
Missing the point. This is about their mechanics in laning, not in team fights. Shen ult does nothing for his own lane phase and the same goes for that hard cc/dash for the first two levels.
Rioter Comments
Laura ß (NA)
: Current state of top lane in summary
{{champion:223}} completely invalidates quinn in top lane. And every other top laner. But Quinn especially. +40% lane kill, +5% overall game WR
: Yuumi literally has every single enchanter ability, and that's not okay.
Missing an AS steroid {{champion:117}}, on-hit modifier {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}}, defensive stat boost {{champion:44}}, missing an AoE heal or shield {{champion:44}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:99}} and the heal and shield she does have are both bafflingly weak and on long cooldowns. Fucking {{champion:76}} has a better ally heal.
: Shaco is garbage now
{{champion:121}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:62}} jg all in much worse positions than Shaco. Skarner especially. A champion played exclusively by one tricks and he can't even get 50% WR. I want to know who sent this wave of "bUFf ShAcO" spammers.
: Crap. I'm looking at the stats now and it seems like for the more popular top laners they have a swing rate of up to 15% between their best and worst match ups (ignoring sylas). This isn't one champ either this is just about every champ. What is riot thinking with all those hard counters. This is crazy. What the crap? Where is the counter play? It's like riot has completely flushed their vision down the drain when it comes to top. If any rioters are reading this, this is wrong. I mean I could see a 10% swing rate at most (55% in a good match up 45% in a bad one) but I'm seeing stuff like 61%/46%. The best one I've seen so far is Karma because she's now a top too. Looks like she's about to get nerfed though with that win rate.
It's not just the matchup winrates. The lane itself is where the matchups are really fucking bad. Look at the champion matchups indevidually and look at Lane Kill %s and first tower times. There's like a single matchup in top that isn't won at champ select and is skill based -- {{champion:92}} vs {{champion:78}}, with poppy's W timing winning her kill% but Riven's waveclear netting her first tower. {{champion:223}} especially is horrible here, having an average matchup of +30% lane kill over the entire top lane roster. https://na.op.gg/champion/tahmkench/statistics/top/matchup?targetChampionId=92 Just look at this shit. Against Vayne, one of tahm's hardest counters, he still wins in lane with +40%. Renekton is Tahm's worst matchup in-lane, and Tahm is still +17% against him
: I'm not a top laner so I have to ask a question out of ignorance: are there any top champs a player can safely blind pick? Only some of those champs you mentioned are ranged so it's not like this is completely a melee vs ranged issue. The only thing I can think of is to hit the base stats of the problematic champs so they are weaker in the early game. I'm kind of scared riot's answer is going to be rework every top laner until they are all "garbage" designs.
{{champion:223}} blind wins 100% of matchups in lane phase but only about half of them translate to winning the game.
: Who's Your Current Perma-Ban (If You Have One)?
In each position from top to supp: {{champion:82}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:99}}
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PopcornBunni

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