Rioter Comments
: I think you're being informed/warned rather than threatened. Even in the event that you do get your positional MMR revoked (which, by the way, we don't know if they're removing it for you specifically or the system in general), I wouldn't be so dramatic and call it a 'punishment.' If the system finds that you are role swapping when you get an off-role an alarming number of times, there's clearly no point in allowing you to have positional matchmaking. It's not really a punishment when something gets taken away when you never really took advantage of it (don't forget that you have to swap FREQUENTLY). This reminds me of a kid crying over a toy being tossed when he never actually played with it. Even if you have appropriate LP/MMR adjustments for games when you swap roles, it still affects the quality of the match. Fair games involve matches where players play against others of comparable skill level. Your typical player probably doesn't enjoy playing a game where they're the clear underdog (regardless of reduced LP loss/greater LP gain potential). > But hey, at least in the 1/100 games that I get auto-filled to jung I _might _be placed against people as terrible at jung as me. Ohh, but wait, the system does not actually know how bad I am at jungle because I don't play enough jungle games, thus don't get to train it about my jung skill, and thus I still get shitty games. You're complaining about your positional matchmaking possibly being taken away, and yet you don't think that positional matchmaking is effective anyways. This is a great anecdote that makes it even less apparent why you care about having positional matchmaking. You'll climb to the rank you deserve if you're getting your main role 99% of the time.
OHHH It's saying my MMR will be merged into one rank? My understanding was it was saying I would not be able to select which roll I was in, and it would auto-fill me always, as a punishment. That makes so much more sense now.
: Your opponent and team were matched to you according to your top lane mmr, not your mid mmr, Im willing to bet your top mmr is lower than your mid as a result you playing mid made the game unfair for everyone.
If I gained the same LP then sure, but I get less LP because the elo differences. Additionally even if that's considered to still be a problem I'M not the one abusing the system, I'm taking a fair and logical action, this is a design flaw with the system. The solution is simply when I think about it, it's NOT to bar me from selecting my lane, it's the make all my position elo's closer together. There is a reason there is a splash, the splash can be made to even out the ranks. Basically, if you change lane often then you "lose" the positional ranking system and get one elo like last season.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
GigglesO (NA)
: Riots new stat changes are an Illusion of choice.
You are right...at level 1. MR and Armor lower the % of damage you take, so the lower the damage values the less important they are. Say for example the MR gave 5% damage reduction, if a spell does 100 damage then that negates 5 damage. But if it deals 1000 damage that is 50 damage. The same is not true for flat stats, 10AP will give the same amount of damage no matter what, so 110 is a 10% increase, but 1010 is a 1% increase. More than that, it has to do with how the total amount of damage in someone's kit is very carefully balanced. LB might be able to full to dead you now, but reduce her damage by 10% and now she only does 90% of your heath, that's a BIG difference over a very small amount of stats.
Noxo (NA)
: Can we just make his W shred through all enemies and apply marks to all of them? then his ult could nuke all of them down! :D It shouldn't stop on the first champion hit, it should keep going to its max range before dissipating. I'd like that as a "washed up used to be ezreal one trick" from season 2. And even though it doesn't do any initial damage now, having the W apply the slow from {{item:3116}} again would be nICE as well... so please? but maybe that's asking for too much since his q already applies on hit affects. Actually nvm forget i just asked that.
Even if W passing through enemies is better design, that boat has sailed. The art is not made in such a way that it would look right. Even then, skipping a long explanation on why, having it not pass through people is better for AD Ez, which in turn is actually good for AP Ez.
Galiö (NA)
: Well looks like he got some base damage Increased and for next patch he is getting pretty good AP Ratio increase. Horrah?
Ya.....I'd still rather have seen that buff go into Q ratio, but I'll take what I can get. At this I'm going to have to just trust Riot on the double tear problem, as that is why they are not putting it into Q I think. They have a lot more data and insight than I do, it is their day job after all to investigate this stuff.
: I personally hope that Ezreal will never get in with Lux, HOWEVER I do hope...
"And after all that you get him actually together with Lux, only to then make him realize that she's pretty much one of the most dangerous mages of Runeterra, pretty much a humanoid weapon of mass destruction that could probably wipe an entire village of the map without breaking as much as a sweat - and probably even more dangerous than all of the above combined." Wait WHAT?????
: I want to know what's even the point of having an AP build and an AD build? The gameplay is basically the same. Hit your skillshots for damage. Both builds can use spellblade items to make Q hit harder. The big difference for me is that AD or hybrid builds have access to more utility because Trinity Force scaling is independent of items. Way way way back in the day there were huge differences in playstyle between the two builds. AD Ezreal had much more single target DPS (his base attack speed and passive were stronger) while AP Ezreal had significantly better AoE potential in teamfights (his ult had a higher AP ratio and less falloff) and he even had a heal scaling off AP. AP build was also way more about burst comparatively due to mechanical differences of spellblade then vs now, Lichbane being stronger, and Trinity Force being weaker. I believe the introduction of Muramana shrunk the gap in burst damage further between the two builds. Also, with this most recent remake to his W, any remaining difference in AoE damage between the builds has been reduced _again_. I'm not saying those differences are totally gone, but they have been muted extremely hard since every single nerf over the years actually brought the two builds closer in terms of playstyle and most changes to his items also did that. The two builds are so homogenized now that I seriously don't understand why somebody would care if AP or AD is the better build. If Riot isn't willing to _significantly_ split the builds in terms of playstyle I just don't see the point.
Two points. First, they are very different from each other. Sure on paper they seem similar, but it's similar to old and new Ahri. Before Ahri was an assassin, now she is a kite mage. On paper she still has the same abilities, but in practice she plays a lot differently. Secondly, and perhaps even more powerful of a point, there simply is no good reason to kill AP Ezreal. The rework is designed in a way that it is great for AD Ezreal, while letting AP Ezreal still be fine. AP Ezreal is not a toxic build, and it's loved by a large number of players. It would just be lazy design to not support it since there is no good reason not to. Most of the time when a rework kills an off build it is because there was something toxic about that build.
: > [{quoted}](name=PotatoMine,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=w00J5tHT,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T22:45:09.864+0000)Not because I want Ezreal to be a siege mage, rather because it represents the fact that perhaps I need to simply re-conceptualize what AP Ezreal is NOW. I know through and through what AP Ezreal WAS, but as I said before we live in a post rework world now, I might have to adapt or die. This would not be the first time after all. I also suspect that part of that is what AP Ezreal was *to you*. I think to a lot of people he was a spell-sniping poke mage who would help when you had a team pinned under a tower, and this helps capitalize on that, for better or worse. > Adding damage to W is actually a really solid idea. Sure it's not what I want, but the designer in me knows this increases his kill threat, poke, lane pressure and works well into Burst AP's play patterns. It does so in a way that has minimal effect on AD, and is over all clean design. > > But, we might be able to do a little better. Agreed on both points. > Consider, what if we made it so W only did half damage to towers? Or perhaps like 75% or something, IDK the exact numbers. If Riot would even be willing to, you could make only the bonus damage from the AP and AD ratio do half damage to towers, but that is unclear and clunky so while it does work, I don't think they will do it. This power could then be moved to another place in his kit that better fits what his fantasy is all about. The argument for it is rather simple, killing towers is not why you play Ezreal, AD or AP, so let's move power out of that aspect of his kit and into what really matters for him. I think there's a dangerous counterargument here though, which is that putting power there *does* help him contribute a lot to a game without having overbearing damage on squishy targets, so you'd have to be careful where you reassign it. It also means that, while it adds counterplay to Ezreal (stay behind a tower or objective and you can dodge his skillshots at the expense of tower health), Ezreal is still able to REALLY make you think about that decision, as he can tear down your tower very quickly if you let him. > But......as much as it pains me to say it, it was niche. A niche within the niche of AP Ezreal. Meaning while I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world to play AP Ezreal this way consistently, it would not surprise me if the people played my particular brew of AP Ezreal consistently could be counted on your fingers. So fine. Burst AP it is. I actually preferred this method as well when I played him AP, and I'd like for it to still be viable. It's actually one of the reasons that I didn't like the straight-up Q buff, as it basically gives *both* styles of AP Ezreal a lot of free power. I also think adding strong tower damage TO poke Ez is a good way to make this more threatening, as is forces you to either retreat or engage on him, meaning that he can chunk you down for his team to win the fight you force, or he can quickly tear through your tower if you don't take action or have to retreat. It basically gives him a strong reward for zoning you out and poking you down, albeit making that poke a bit harder to achieve. The problem, though, is that if you want to buff that playstyle you have to do so in a way that won't heavily increase the power of burst AP Ezreal, harass + burst AP Ezreal, or AD Ezreal. This is why Q damage is probably out -- it increases the chip damage that burst Ezreal can deal, which makes him much more able to burst you after any given number of hits. That, however, is not an especially easy design goal to accomplish without adding more levers into his kit.
I need to eat, for now if you are interested I finished an addition to the original post.
: > [{quoted}](name=PotatoMine,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=w00J5tHT,comment-id=00010000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T07:19:06.096+0000)> That's what he needs though. He is already fun to play, he just needs the raw numbers to let him actually be played effectively. I'm not sure I agree there, frankly. Not on the raw numbers part, but on the Q part. There are other places to add numbers for teamfights that don't add a significant damage increase to super-low-cooldown harass. Stick it on the W or E. Make his passive scale better and provide some AP on-hit with each stack. Make it reward *repeated* Q hits by increasing the damage of a successful hit for X seconds. A blanket increase to his core ability in all cases, however, seems like a mistake -- I know a bit about how Riot tests these things, and I'm confident that the fact that they *lowered* AP Ezreal's Q damage was an intentional decision based on testing what happened when it wasn't lowered. > Edit: Not saying you are not, you clearly understand the depth behind AP Ezreal, but there is plenty of depth in Q as well. I loved old W, but it is gone now. Aside from "hit skill shot" and "gain bonuses for hitting skill shot," it feels like this is a bit inaccurate. The Q *is* ultimately one of the simpler abilities in the game. Hence why I feel the passive could be an interesting space to explore adding power. > To be rather cold, it does not matter what old W did at this point. It very much does if your argument is "he has lost teamfight potential," given that some of that teamfight potential *was* skill-locked. Adding in super accessible damage is a potentially dangerous solution, because it affects a lot of cases other than the ones you're talking about where Ezreal is still doing just fine, just as laning or poke trading. > I think I'm rather universal in saying _killing towers is not why you play AP Ezreal._ AP Ezreal, perhaps (although with Lichbane he's still good at it), but that change is to help solidify Ezreal's concept as a sieging poke mage or sieging poke carry, and I think it's addition is actually a solid buff to his somewhat unique role. > While I've this in different terms, to directly address this, his total burst has gone _down_, not up, from the rework. Total optimal burst, yes, but the ability to more easily focus the E on your primary target while not having to sacrifice a stronger positioning is more valuable than it appears at face value.
There is a lot to digest here, and what stood out to me the most was this: " but that change is to help solidify Ezreal's concept as a sieging poke mage or sieging poke carry," Not because I want Ezreal to be a siege mage, rather because it represents the fact that perhaps I need to simply re-conceptualize what AP Ezreal is NOW. I know through and through what AP Ezreal WAS, but as I said before we live in a post rework world now, I might have to adapt or die. This would not be the first time after all. While we could go back and forth on many of these details, for the sake of having a productive conversation rather than going back and forth about details, let's consider the new post from Riot and how it plays into this: Edit: Because I know it is rewarding to know, you have certainly shifted my view on multiple points I have not taken the time to type out. "Now that his update's been out for a little while wanted to share a few thoughts on Ezreal: His AD build's performing pretty solidly, particularly given the amount his play rate's shot up, which tends to depress performance for a while as less experienced players get on a champ. We estimate that build's in a spot where it's balanced, or possibly slightly strong long term once this players have more experience with the kit changes. His AP by contrast's looking weaker than it was pre update. We're looking at buffing his W rank up damage as a result, given AD Ezreal maxes that last and AP Ezreal maxes it first or second. That will likely be in 8.22. We're avoiding putting more power into AP ratios because we're already seeing the double tear builds be pretty powerful and giving him more value for AP pushes all his builds towards double tear as the way to go, removing variety." Adding damage to W is actually a really solid idea. Sure it's not what I want, but the designer in me knows this increases his kill threat, poke, lane pressure and works well into Burst AP's play patterns. It does so in a way that has minimal effect on AD, and is over all clean design. But, we might be able to do a little better. Consider, what if we made it so W only did half damage to towers? Or perhaps like 75% or something, IDK the exact numbers. If Riot would even be willing to, you could make only the bonus damage from the AP and AD ratio do half damage to towers, but that is unclear and clunky so while it does work, I don't think they will do it. This power could then be moved to another place in his kit that better fits what his fantasy is all about. The argument for it is rather simple, killing towers is not why you play Ezreal, AD or AP, so let's move power out of that aspect of his kit and into what really matters for him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After writing and then rereading my post I realized I was talking to myself more than you with this section, so I've moved it down as it's not quite as relevant. So let's say AP ratios are out. Rather than going back and forth about if Q should get extra AP ratio or not, let's consider Riot's proposal to increase the damage on W. To me, this change makes it rather clear that Riot has decided the correct way to play AP Ezreal is Burst AP Ezreal which, as much as I hate to say it, it likely correct. To back up a step a real quick, for you or anyone who might decide to read this conversation(#LookingAtYouSilentRioter), there are(sorry WHERE, _cry a little inside_) actually two very very different ways of playing AP Ezreal. By far the most common was Burst AP, where in short AP Ezreal was played as a burst mage, an assassin. It was nice and all, but it was a mid game house that fell off late game. Then there is Poke AP that is much more consistent, in which AP Ezreal is a long range poke mage and has a much more powerful late game. You give up the powerspike of rushing a Gunblade and instead get an early Lichbane and Deathcap, combined with AP Ezreal's very high AP ratios you'd have #TonsOfDamage at only 2.5 items, and most importantly it could ALWAYS come back. If you just sit and farm you will always have a lot of damage later in the game, it does not matter if you are 0 5, and that is the main reason I played and loved it. But......as much as it pains me to say it, it was niche. A niche within the niche of AP Ezreal. Meaning while I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world to play AP Ezreal this way consistently, it would not surprise me if the people played my particular brew of AP Ezreal consistently could be counted on your fingers. So fine. Burst AP it is.
: > [{quoted}](name=PotatoMine,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=w00J5tHT,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T02:27:41.837+0000)I mean this in the most constructive and respectful way possible, how much experience did you have with AP Ezreal before the rework? A fairly considerable amount, actually. > I've very aware that .2AP ratio on Q is a much larger DPS increase than .2 on W, E or R would be, but I also have the luxury of seeing just how much DPS was lost from the W changes. And let me tell ya, it was a LOT. I'm aware it had the potential to be a lot if you could hit multiple targets or were an expert at boosting yourself with Essence Flux. My argument is that that damage should *not* be applied to Ezreal's most frequent, most reliable, most straight-forward spell. Maximizing W damage previously took positioning, skill, good target alignment, and using your E to offensively position in the line of attack -- things that didn't always occur. Hitting Q is extremely simplistic and versatile in comparison, and it not a place where I think any needed power should be added. > Edit: And don't get me wrong, just because the mathematical DPS got an unholy nerf, mathematical DPS is not everything. Throughout the rest of the game its not a problem, but in team fights it is. AP Ezreal ALREADY had a hard time dealing with tanks. I'm not really disagreeing with that assessment. I'm simply saying that applying buffs to other parts of his kit or making that power equally tricky to apply well seems a healthier alternative to simply increasing the ratio on his bread-and-butter harass and damage by 66%. By all means buff him if it turns out he needs teamfighting power or tank-busting, but this *particular* suggested change skews every interaction Ezreal has by vastly pushing his power budget into the most straight-forward application of his most straight-forward, repeatable, and low-cost spell.
"skews every interaction Ezreal has by vastly pushing his power budget into the most straight-forward application of his most straight-forward, repeatable, and low-cost spell." That's what he needs though. He is already fun to play, he just needs the raw numbers to let him actually be played effectively. Additionally I don't agree Q is a less interesting ability than W, sure when you are in a team fight and have a point bank shot it might seem that way, but that is not really looking at the bigger picture. Edit: Not saying you are not, you clearly understand the depth behind AP Ezreal, but there is plenty of depth in Q as well. I loved old W, but it is gone now. "Maximizing W damage previously took positioning, skill, good target alignment, and using your E to offensively position in the line of attack -- things that didn't always occur." To be rather cold, it does not matter what old W did at this point. I agree that _before_ the rework adding AP ratio to his Q would not have been a good idea, but we live in a post rework world, like it or not. (So far I'm on the "not" boat, but that can change if Riot is willing to actually follow through and give AP Ezreal the numbers he needs). Don't look at what his kit was, rather what it is now. We have 4 spells, we don't want to add ratio to W since that increases his tower killing, and he does not need anymore power in tower killing. in fact I'd LOVE to see that whole section removed in favor of better _minion killing_, but I don't expect that to happen. I think I'm rather universal in saying _killing towers is not why you play AP Ezreal._ So W is out, if any thing I'd love to see the AP ratio on W reduced and moved someplace else, which is honestly very sad. E is also not a good place, it already has a high ratio and in order to buff it enough that it mattered much it would give AP Ezreal too much burst particularly with the new W letting you land it over minions. Ult is again not a great place since while you *could* increase his ult damage, it's already extremely high, and again that does not actually solve the problem. It's the same kind of thing as having tower killing, it's just extra power that does not fit his identity. If we could change things other than an AP ratio, then we have a lot more options. But changing an AP ratio does not have much or any impact on AD Ezreal, while other changes do. Again, the problem is his raw DPS is too low. "a healthier alternative to simply increasing the ratio on his bread-and-butter harass and damage by 66%" Remember, they NERFED Q, it's only a 25% base ratio increase from what it was, and with LB it's only and 11ish% increase. In total it gives him a 1.0 ratio on Q with Lichbane, which while a LOT, they also nerfed his W damage a LOT. Edit: I was rereading our conversation and wanted to address a point you made a bit ago that I think I did not give enough justice: "I suspect the reason his Q was taken from 0.4 AP to 0.3 AP is that he was too reliably bursting down targets since, as you mention, he is much more like an assassin now. " While I've this in different terms, to directly address this, his total burst has gone _down_, not up, from the rework. On top of that his assassinations are a lot harder to do now as well, so I don't really see how Riot could be fairly worried about the rework making him too reliable at bursting down targets, cause he's a lot worse at it now than he was before. I believe the reason they are scared to give him the power he needs is because they are scared of his tower pushing potential, a fear I totally understand. I am not faulting Riot for releasing reworked AP Ezreal in a weak state, effects that deal 40% of a towers health late game are kinda scary from a design perspective, particularly when you are working in a space that is not well documented considering how few AP Ezreal players there are compared to AD. I will fault them however if next patch nothing changes.
: > [{quoted}](name=PotatoMine,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=w00J5tHT,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-13T04:12:50.949+0000) > > +.2AP ratio makes him have the same total AP ratio he did before, so I'm not too worried about having too much burst, and I think there is a long way to go before he will be over tuned. The same *total* ratio, yes. But you are moving it to a much more frequent ability, which is a bit problematic. I suspect the reason his Q was taken from 0.4 AP to 0.3 AP is that he was too reliably bursting down targets since, as you mention, he is much more like an assassin now. Putting a higher ratio on his most frequently accessible (and cheapest) form of damage is actually a *much* larger buff than I think you intend, and drastically increases his solo potential as well as his teamfight potential. If you want a teamfight focus, it might be interesting to consider options like W marking *each* champion in a line, or increasing the damage of his ultimate against champions (to prevent giving him too much free waveclear). Those would both impact his burst potential and 1v1 dueling/laning power significantly less than the proposed change. I also personally think the lessened ability to output fatal damage to a specific target *might* be intentional, as it helps reinforce him as a spell-spamming mage/carry instead of the "focus down a specific target until dead" gameplay some other carries have. Whether or not this is *actually* intentional I can't say, but I think it does help him stand out as a strong pick into harassing siege comps and a little bit of a weaker pick when you need to delete a specific target in a straight fight.
"The same total ratio, yes. But you are moving it to a much more frequent ability, which is a bit problematic. " I mean this in the most constructive and respectful way possible, how much experience did you have with AP Ezreal before the rework? I've very aware that .2AP ratio on Q is a much larger DPS increase than .2 on W, E or R would be, but I also have the luxury of seeing just how much DPS was lost from the W changes. And let me tell ya, it was a LOT. Not only does it straight up have a 50% longer cool down, a fair amount of the time you don't even get damage from it since you don't apply the mark, and then of course there is not hitting multiple targets. But what is often overlooked is that increasing the cool down by 4 seconds is actually significantly worse than JUST 50% lower DPS because of how it interacts with Q's 1.5 second cool down reduction on hit. At 45% cool down reduction, which is rather standard for AP Ezreal later in the game, the old cool down on W was 4.4, now at 12 seconds it's 6.6. Here's the deal, 1.5 is 34% of 4.4, but 1.5 is only is only 23% of 6.6. That is a BIG DIFFERENCE. Put a different way, consider if for every cast of W you hit one mystic shot to reduce it's cast time, so at 45% cool down reduction the real cast time of W before was 2.9 and now it's 5.1. 5.1 is 175% the size of 2.9, so, unless I'm derping on the math someplace, the ACTUAL DPS loss from increasing the cool down by 50% is 75% lower! That's BEFORE factoring in the high fail rate on not getting the mark. From my experience I miss the mark 25-50% of the time, so let's use the lower bound and say 25% of the time you don't get the mark. So for every 100 damage per second we had before, we now get 100*(1 - (% decrees from cool down change)*(Hit rate) = **100 * .25 * .75 = 18.75!!!!!!!!!!! ** Say we _generously _ say 25% of W's would hit at least 2 people, that is an extra 25 to the base number. So if our old W DPS was 125, our new W DPS is 18.17, that is fucking 15% of what it was! AND THE AP RATIO IS LOWER(though it does have tiny bit higher base damage). Say we ignore the Q interaction AND we ignore the fact that it can't hit multiple people, that is still 100 * .5 * .75 = 37.5. So the DPS on W got utterly shit all over, AND Q got an AP ratio nerf on TOP of that. The exact reason it should go on Q is BECAUSE it's a much more frequent ability, small changes to it's damage have large impacts on his DPS, meaning his total burst can be kept in check while addressing the actual problem of not having enough DPS. Edit: And don't get me wrong, just because the mathematical DPS got an unholy nerf, mathematical DPS is not everything. Throughout the rest of the game it's not a problem, but in team fights it is. AP Ezreal ALREADY had a hard time dealing with tanks.
: I'm super upset abut AP ezreal as well, thankfully somebody else understands because everybody thought I was crazy when I said W was straight gutted. No more lane harass, no more AP ezreal.
Well while I agree it's a net negative to a champ that was already below the curve, I actually don't think lane harass is the problem, again it's team fighting. Sure his lane harass is different now, but it's over all better depending on how you build him. I'm holding out tell the next patch or two before I get my pitchfork out. Riot wanted to be very careful, particularly with the massive damage AP now does to towers later in the game.
Galiö (NA)
: I'm not just saying AP ezreal is more of a siege machine. But I guess your argument is for more of aoe (?) which I wouldnt know how to make him have the aoe and not be too strong. Also again I'd be intrested on how the Rageblade and W interaction works. It may hurt, a lot, if it works.
The problem is not the lack of AOE, the problem is the lack of DPS. His total damage output got shit all over, the loss of AOE is just one part of that. That's why I like the Q buff, it increases his DPS a lot without increasing his burst too much. Hell if his burst is too high(I don't think it is, but for the sake of argument lets say it is) then they can just pull AP ratio out of W. That also helps make his W not nuke towers so much, which is not what AP Ezreal is all about.
: I think buffing his Q is dangerous territory, since it's a low cooldown, low mana cost ability that allows Ezreal to harass his opponent a lot if they aren't careful with their positioning. You said the rework already improved his laning; improving it more by buffing his Q might make it overbearing. Additionally, even if it's balanced by requiring you to hit two abilities, losing more than half your health to a WQ combo doesn't feel great. A buff to his Q would only make this worse. (We don't want to enter Zoe territory, do we?) If I understand you correctly some noticeable differences are - Less backline access - Less damage - No longer able to hit multiple targets - Overall weaker teamfights So why not buff his R ap ratio instead? It's most useful in teamfights, won't significantly buff his laning, allows you to hit the backline, still does damage to the front line, and while losing a big chunk of your health to it still doesn't feel great, it's mitigated by it's status as ultimate ability.
buffing ult is not a bad idea actually, buffing Q makes the most sense to me still but I also know I'm very close to the situation, making it very hard for me to really know how frustrating he is or will be to play against. I have the perspective of knowing what it was before, so I'm bias in wanting to having it be similar to that. Old AP Ezreal was great at sitting back and just spamming spells, and that is a big reason I loved him. The problem is it's very difficult to kill people right now in a team fight. Sure I might be able to do some chunks of damage here and there but it's nothing compared to what it used to be, and AP Ezreal was not even the best DPS around before. Buffing ult would not really solve the problem of his core rotation feeling weak, AP Ezreal is a spell slinger, he should be casting lots of spells to kill his targets, he is not Brand who wants to live or die on a single spell rotation.=
Galiö (NA)
: I think their compensation was his added siege potential against turrets and injuns as well as making it easy to hit and E even if the enemy in in a tight spot. But you're right about body blocking being unfortunate. But atleats that gives tanks a way to seem like they draw aggro in an aggro less game (for the most part). Also when describing your W I think you mean moot point not mute. Maybe if they increased the AP ratio of W and E by 5% and the ult by 10% it can make the AP build feel better. Also does his W explosion count as bonus damage for Rageblade? If so that can be a cute part of an AP build.
While the tower and objective damage is nice, I don't think it's enough to make up for the loss. If they really wanted they could also lower the AP ratio on W a bit, again, at the end of the day having really high tower killing is not why I play AP Ezreal.
: Hmm. I hear that, but I do worry about giving him too much single target burst potential. Especially giving it back on Q. Your analysis is great, it just led me to the conclusion that what AP Ez needed was something for teamfights. I think if he gets too much power on single target, that might backfire and over-tune him. (But I'm not an AP Ezreal player)
+.2AP ratio makes him have the same total AP ratio he did before, so I'm not too worried about having too much burst, and I think there is a long way to go before he will be over tuned.
: Now hang on. You're saying the problem is that AP Ezreal used to have AoE, and now he doesn't, and the reward for proccing for W on an enemy is too low. So... what if the detonation was an AoE? To tell you the truth, I thought it was when I first saw the rework, and that would have been super cool imo. Break that idea down for me.
Not only does that require more development time to make the art, it's not the heart of the problem. I'm fine with W not having AOE anymore, it just needs to have enough compensation for that loss in power
Bazerka (NA)
: Hows everyone's Friday?
Doing well, I made a post submit-ion to Gameplay+ with feedback on the Ezreal rework from the perspective of an AP Ezreal main, but it has not been approved yet? I submitted it yesterday :(
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: League gameplay changes over the next few months
Hi, I made a MASSIVE (10 pages+) post about Ezreal and reworking him, but got basically no attention. I'll use the excuse that this relates to not wanting Riot to invalidate my way of playing in why it's on topic here, but really I'm just hoping a Rioter could make sure someone working on the Ezreal rework actually sees this. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/BuXHeOaG-a-massive-design-exploration-of-ezreal-and-how-to-rework-him Please please let me know if you do forward it to someone on the Ezreal team, it would me the world to me just to know it got read.
Rioter Comments
: It forms a useful obstacle and can be used to clip unsuspecting moving targets with a larger AoE, like any skillshot that explodes at the end.
I'm not talking about the plop, I'm talking about it staying around after for multiple seconds.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Doesn't {{champion:203}} already do something like that? Even {{champion:86}} has a similar mechanic.
true, and there is good reason Kin has it, though Gar not so much
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Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Nautilus lore - what's most important to you?
To me, an important part of Naut is that he is not evil, he is not ambitious, but he is not good, he is just there. I envision him being the kind of thing you'd find passively roaming the depths of the ocean, that if you where in a sub you'd shine your light on his massive figure in the dark and go holy shit holy shit, while he just passively walks on past. He is apart of the ocean as much he is from it, he's a mobile relic, a sunk ship walking the sea floor. This is also reflected in his abilities too, his shock wave is not a BAM it's just a mello boom boom boom. His ult is slow and steady, his hammer takes it's time to swing and his shield just kind of appears on him, is is almost indifferent to it's presence. It's not even the calculated feeling of Tally, it's just "I am here".
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Yrzen (NA)
: Kleptomancy Gangplank isn't problematic. It doesn't actually have a large (or even positive) power delta relative to Grasp of the Undying, according to win rates. His other keystone choices (Summon: Aery and Arcane Comet) are also within a 0.6% win rate difference compared to Kleptomancy. (Aery is actually higher than Kleptomancy as well, though that's likely due to its overtuned nature at the moment)
This has little to do with power level, rather design. Even if Ezreal was not a problem with it the design still has room for improvement.
Rioter Comments
: It's not a number adjustment but a code adjustment. A better question is why hasn't he been _disabled_.
Explain? From what I can see it's just how well he uses the keystone
Rioter Comments
: Warning: frank discussion incoming. One of the things we haven't talked about a lot with you guys, but which should come as no surprise, is that Riot does make revenue on runes, which we ultimately invest back into League to make the game better. This is indirect revenue, because it comes from players purchasing champions with RP since they don't have available IP to get those champions, since some of that IP goes towards runes. Freeing up rune IP (in the absence of any other changes) would let players buy a bunch of champions and spend less RP overall. Now we *are* making some other changes to the system, but overall, Riot is losing money on this deal. Potentially a lot of money. This was something we had to talk about a lot internally, but everyone was ultimately behind the decision, all the way to Tryndamere and Ryze. I don't want to make too big of a deal out of this, but if we seem cautious with some of our decisions here, this is part of the reason why. (Another big one obviously is that we are taking a gamble by overhauling such a core part of the game for something that we believe will be better.) We are making the new runes free because we believe 1) That it's the right thing to do for League and for League players, and 2) Our business model has always been to make a fun game that players want to keep coming back to year after year. Runes Reforged is a long-term bet on League of Legends (and Riot for that matter). If we thought that Rune Pages made no sense with the new design and risked feeling like a cash grab, we would absolutely just kill them as a feature. But we have found they are useful with Runes Reforged, just less mandatory than they were before. Definitely open to discussion on this topic however.
I am totally for rune pages being something you can buy. They *will* be useful, but they will not be necessary. Technically you could play LoL with a single mastery page right now, but that would be a giant pain in the ass. I think most players will understand that at the end of the day Riot does have to make money somehow, and I think a lot of people who right now are saying they think the pages will be worthless will have a change of heart once they get to see the conveniences in action.
: The common Cactopus (Cactopus Riotensis) is a nocturnal creature that dwells in the depths of the ritonian trench, which divides the noobian and Instaloky tectonic plates. It feeds off positive energy in the comment section and can occassionally be observed emerging onto the boards to share its infinite wisdom with lesser beings. Little is known about the Cactopus' reproduction cycle, and to this day biologists have not been able to observe the creature's mysterious mating ritual. The Cactopus belongs to the same genus as the Eambo (Eambonis Riotensis) and its interactions with other members of the Riotensis-genus routinely attract countless common noobs (Noobus Bronzefivei), which seem to revel in observing this animal. Join us next time for a look at new evidence supposedly supporting the existence of the mysterious and evasive being known as the "good teammate" (teammateus bonus), a creature so rare it is commonly thought to be merely a myth.
If this was Reddit I would give you gold
: Damn, ECON 101 just came rushing back real fast. This is fair feedback, and you make a solid point about the marginal value. Our argument for doing things this way is basically an economic one. The question is while we're making one huge part of League's economy (runes) free, will players understand if we keep other non-essential systems (pages) paid? If the overall change is a net positive, does it feel like a fair deal? Really appreciate you guys for bringing strong arguments in here by the way.
To add to the idea of marginal value, an important factor a lot of people forget is in the new system each additional rune page will be worth less, except people often forget that's already how it works. I have 5 different pages all the same except some small tweak, I could be fine with half as many pages and still be fine. To me, understand and have no problem with changes, but I got my rune pages like 5 years ago and have gotten plenty of value out of them. Someone who just hit level 30, dropped the bling bling a full set of pages only to have them become, in their eye, worthless I expect will have a much less casual opinion.
: We've been thinking about this a bunch. It basically depends on your playstyle, I guess. Like I really get stressed editing masteries in champ select now, so I'll probably have 20 Rune pages for the ~10 champs I play so I don't have to spend a single extra second on building one from scratch every time. That way I can just change like a few runes on one of my preset pages and then have time to grab a beer or whatever. So this plan works really well for me, but you might not use it. I guess the question then is, is that fair enough for you? Like you're still getting all the other improvements to the rune system (including free runes, editing them in champ select). So does the change overall still feel fair for you even if you don't use the extra rune pages? I'm genuinely asking.
Not OP but to me it's not that it feels "fair" as much as it feels necessary. What more could you have done? Sure pages are less important than before, but change is part of League. I think of it like the jungle, you might have paid for yi / WW and really enjoyed Devour on them a few seasons ago but now that the wind has turned you never play them. Runepages are still helpful, I'll still be happy to have the 10 that I have and the value loss on rune pages is trivial compared to the value the new rune system brings. There will be people who get upset, but that' true of any change. I imagine most people will be too busy mouthwatering over the new rune changes that have been "in the works" for years :P
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
If you change something on Ezreal Please for the love of god don't forget about AP Ezreal
MinaZer0 (NA)
: nah, its an objective thats worth fighting over now and can be contested by both teams.. everyone wants the FB on turret so rift WILL be contested now which means less safe laning phase and more skirmishing early-ish game.. it doesn't need a nerf.. it needs to be played around better
> [{quoted}](name=ILittle IMonster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XL5rmn95,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-05T04:48:24.367+0000) > > nah, its an objective thats worth fighting over now and can be contested by both teams.. everyone wants the FB on turret so rift WILL be contested now which means less safe laning phase and more skirmishing early-ish game.. it doesn't need a nerf.. it needs to be played around better Did you even read my post?
Rioter Comments
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 7.3, nerfing permabanned champs
I am very glad to see lots of nerfs this patch, but feel there are many more needed. Personally, I find Kat, Ryze and Syndra are well deserving of nerfs with Yas being still frustrating but not as high priority. Are these champions having nerfs looked into?
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PotatoMine

Level 103 (NA)
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