Getfishyy (EUNE)
: I never got a chat restriction once, I just got 2 week ban and then perma.
> [{quoted}](name=Getfishyy,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=drt3NnJZ,comment-id=000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-09-22T13:48:24.001+0000) > > I never got a chat restriction once, I just got 2 week ban and then perma. If that's the case then file a Support Ticket asking for more details as to why this is.
: Is it advisable to simply mute all players in a game?
I would advise against doing that unless you know you have a problem with ignoring problem players. Communication is an important tool for team-based games so in my opinion it's better to leave those lines of communication open and only close them when it's clear the individual in question has no intention of communicating properly.
Elivil (NA)
: "It's just a game".
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: you realise Nazgul isn't OP, right? {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sinful Succubus,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=drt3NnJZ,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-18T13:24:31.269+0000) > > you realise Nazgul isn't OP, right? > > {{sticker:sg-lulu}} Oh yeah, they aren't. My mistake, for some reason I thought they were so thanks for pointing that out to me. I've since edited my post to reflect that.
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jhins Girlfriend,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vYAEUaiV,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-09-16T14:46:03.237+0000) > > First punishment for inting is a 14-day suspension. Second offense is a permaban. Yeah, but a 14 day ban is not a warning in my book.
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vYAEUaiV,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T14:50:26.580+0000) > > Yeah, but a 14 day ban is not a warning in my book. Well you shouldn't need a warning to know that intentionally feeding, trolling and griefing are all forms of unacceptable behavior, hence why the punishment is so severe and harsh. Anyway, to the OP, a simple look through this forum will show that reports do work. That said, it takes time to review the games and make sure the offense(s) committed is(are) intentional or not.
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Xphineas,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=drt3NnJZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T13:38:36.860+0000) > > Getfishyy: muted mf > > Getfishyy: worst blizcrank eu > Getfishyy: thats why we dont ff > Getfishyy: to waste your time > Getfishyy: mf so bad lmao > Getfishyy: haha > Getfishyy: you just fed diana > Getfishyy: better mid wins only 1 sentence out of those is even semi-toxic. Telling someone they are muted is also not toxic
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=drt3NnJZ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T14:16:38.918+0000) > > only 1 sentence out of those is even semi-toxic. Telling someone they are muted is also not toxic The thing is though they went from being neutral to just trying irritate them and they even admitted you wouldn't surrender as you just wanted to waste their time. Yes telling someone they're muted once isn't toxic (though it really isn't needed honestly), but they didn't just leave it at that and felt it was necessary to put down, harass and irritate MF and Blitz, which I'm sure they or the OPs other teammates didn't appreciate. Even if MF and Blitz were behaving worse or started it this kind of behavior still isn't acceptable, and quite honestly there was no need for the OP to act like this either when they were doing relatively fine beforehand. Ordinarily this would only receive a chat restriction, but because they already had 2 of those and a 14-day ban and still didn't improve your behavior enough they were given the next level of punishment: a permaban in this case. It's unfortunate but they brought this on themselves. In the future if someone is displaying poor chat behavior then the best way to handle them is to just mute, report and move on and not intentionally try to irritate, harass and/or spite others with poor behavior of ones own as retaliation is not okay here. EDIT: My mistake, I thought you were the OP for some reason initially. I've now changed the wording in some parts to be directed towards the OP and not you.
: Because the 1st amendment. boom I win
> [{quoted}](name=SingedSupport,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mdKzweaB,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T06:24:23.612+0000) > > Because the 1st amendment. boom I win More like boom you lose, as Like SEKAI pointed out the 1st amendment and freedom of speech =/= freedom of speech consequences and doesn't apply to privately owned places such as Riot Games. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=1#post43465469): >**Freedom of Speech!!!!!** >Doesn’t apply. No really. If we’re talking about American law, the First Amendment only applies to the government making laws that prohibit speech and, even then, freedom of speech isn’t absolute. For example, you can’t incite a riot, plan to kill the president or yell fire in a crowded theater. >Also, there’s nothing in the First Amendment that protects you from the consequences of your speech. People are fired all the time for making derogatory comments about their employer. My workplace, for example, has a social media policy that says that I can be terminated for badmouthing the company. They don’t ask for passwords and access as some companies have been known to do, but it wouldn’t be all that difficult to find me on the internet, knowing my real name, phone number and address. _____________ > [{quoted}](name=SingedSupport,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mdKzweaB,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T06:31:03.239+0000) > > People like you are the reason I enjoyed playing singed support lol So rather than accept responsibility for your actions you'd rather just be immature and ruin other peoples games. This is what got you in trouble in the first place. Singed Support by itself is not punishable, but it is if you're doing it with the intent to troll and be a jerk. >> [{quoted}](name=SingedSupport,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mdKzweaB,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T07:26:39.050+0000) > > You still waste your life on playing this game. that's the real joke lol. being perma'd woke me up to how bad this game is for peoples' physical health. It's programmed to be 1 step forward and 2 steps back. That's a you problem there. Many people (myself included) are able to play the game just fine with no major physical or mental problems. If being permabanned for consistently poor behavior made you come to the conclusion that the game is bad for physical health then that's on you not Riot, and though you are free to find other games to play this quite honestly just sounds like you're looking for excuses to avoid taking responsibility for your actions. > [{quoted}](name=SingedSupport,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mdKzweaB,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T15:10:13.802+0000) > > You just explained why the game is so intolerable. People trying to take it seriously and climb ranked are bogged down by children that have 0 actual video game experience. And if it really is meant for children why are there so many oversized boobs? People are always going to be at different skill levels, but you know how you can climb better? By just focusing on your own game and not throw a fit and grief when things don't go your way. You'll never be able to climb effectively if you give up the moment things go south. That aside you could always just not play ranked if it's that unenjoyable for you.
: Chat ban for "unsportsman like conduct"
First off, you don't know for sure if they got a chat restriction or not, and you're certainly in no position to complain about their behavior when you chose not to report them and alert the IFS to their behavior and yet were also behaving poorly yourself. Second off, other people behaving poorly does not excuse your own poor behavior, and if you truly want to discuss your case then please post your entire unedited chat logs here in this thread.
: Permanently Banned for calling someone a loser.
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: I typed bird 57 times in a 40+ minute game as a response to anyone that wrote anything to me because I was playing anivia. I'm no math major but 1 .33 birds per minute isn't really spam. All the other chat 'problems' aside why is slightly negative chat treated with more severity than actually ruining the game via trolling? You can always mute toxic chat but you can't mute toxic game play behavior which is more game impacting than someone just talking. When are you going to implement a system that punishes people for deliberately ruining games through game play rather than just chat?
> [{quoted}](name=SingedSupport,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mdKzweaB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-16T04:48:07.175+0000) > > I typed bird 57 times in a 40+ minute game as a response to anyone that wrote anything to me because I was playing anivia. I'm no math major but 1 .33 birds per minute isn't really spam. All the other chat 'problems' aside why is slightly negative chat treated with more severity than actually ruining the game via trolling? You can always mute toxic chat but you can't mute toxic game play behavior which is more game impacting than someone just talking. When are you going to implement a system that punishes people for deliberately ruining games through game play rather than just chat? The thing is those types of players do get banned with a 14-day ban for the first offense, but it's just not as common to see posts from people who were banned for trolling because: 1) The system has to be sure the act is intentional and deliberate and not just having a bad game or two. Because of this it unfortunately takes longer than we would like to punish them compared to simple chat related offenses (which the mute button does not excuse btw). 2) Those players often already know what they did wrong and thus have no need to complain about it on the forums. As for chat related offenses being treated more harshly, that's not really the case, as outside of egregious instances of poor chat behavior (death threats/wishes, racist comments, etc.) that earn a 2-week ban first offense, people are given at least 4 chances to improve their chat behavior, with the first 2 of those punishments being chat restrictions. The thing is though the IFS is based on consistency X severity, meaning that even mild/tame instances of poor behavior, can eventually earn the same punishment as more severe cases of poor behavior if it's consistent enough. Chat is meant to be used as a tool for communication, and if you're just using it to spam, insult and/or harass others rather than play the actual game itself then I see no reason why you shouldn't be held accountable for that poor behavior, which includes actual game bans if the chat restrictions don't work out to stop it.
: Honor system
It's not impossible, as there's been posts by people saying that they've made it past honor 1, it just takes a long time as you have to play multiple games while showing sportsmanlike conduct in said games in order to advance. Behavior that's problematic but not problematic enough to receive a punishment slows down the progression. At the end of the day it all depends on you.
BecaliRules (EUNE)
: And plus...calling someone troll or braindead is nothing compared to what others have said to me without getting punished....I try my hardest every game while a lot of games if someone goes 0/2 on lane they just start trolling my game and saying that they dont care.I guess going 0/12 is perfectly fine right?Its not like if someone is toxic you can mute them and win the game, but if someone goes 0/12 i can't do anything about it.Stupid system.I have a guy in my friendlist with whom i got matchmaked a few weeks ago who was silver1 at the time, he literally trolls every single game in his match history going 2/12 and being toxic, he is now currently bronze 2 and still inting every game while being toxic and he didnt get a ban to this day.how is this fair?
> [{quoted}](name=BecaliRules,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k93ET6KG,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-11T16:21:44.313+0000) > > And plus...calling someone troll or braindead is nothing compared to what others have said to me without getting punished.... And? You think that excuses your own poor behavior? News flash: it doesn't. >I try my hardest every game while a lot of games if someone goes 0/2 on lane they just start trolling my game and saying that they dont care.I guess going 0/12 is perfectly fine right?Its not like if someone is toxic you can mute them and win the game, but if someone goes 0/12 i can't do anything about it.Stupid system.I have a guy in my friendlist with whom i got matchmaked a few weeks ago who was silver1 at the time, he literally trolls every single game in his match history going 2/12 and being toxic, he is now currently bronze 2 and still inting every game while being toxic and he didnt get a ban to this day.how is this fair? Trolling, inting and the like is not acceptable and is punished with a 14-day ban first offense when proven to be intentional. That said, just because there's a mute button doesn't mean that verbal abuse/harassment is acceptable. As for your so-called friend, while I don't condone his behavior if what you said is true (and you should file a support ticket about him) there is no need for you to be stalking his match history as not only is it just a waste of time but is also not an accurate indicator of whether or not someone received a punishment. >Velkoz was autofilled support, but said i go mid idc, then he managed to get bot but was stealing ezreal's farm so ezreal was just staying in base and using flash/heal/ult whenever it was up.Udyr kept going 1v2/1v3 and dying and flaming us.wouldnt you call a report if someone who got chosen by the system to go support and nobody else agreed to swap would just come on your lane to steal some farm?I am not going to praise them for what they did, as you can see in the chat log for a good ammount of time i was the one who was telling them to stop trolling and just farm up and try to win, but even i have my limits.Cho'gath top and ezreal adc had a little over 100 farm in 30 minutes game and i am platinum, not bronze or iron, so people should at least know that farming is something you have to do every game. Except that you didn't just tell them to stop trolling, you were consistently insulting and harassing them and calling for reports against them as well. If all you did was tell or ask them to stop trolling then you wouldn't have received a punishment, but because you decided that wasn't enough and that verbal harassment was needed you got punished. Nobody likes trolls and I get how frustrating they can be to deal with. However, trolls troll to get a negative reaction out of others, so by not giving them that satisfaction they'll either straighten up or just dig themselves a deeper grave. In the future if you've asked someone to stop acting up and they refuse to do so then just drop it and move on and focus on your own game rather than complain about it all game long. You don't have to constantly give out praise or be a soulless emotional robot, but taking your anger and frustration out on the other players solves nothing in the long run. I get frustrated and angry myself but I just yell and rage at the screen (and punch pillows/my chairs armrests) rather than in chat. This way I can vent without compromising my teams success chances.
BecaliRules (EUNE)
: Ban for this?
The question isn't "does this deserve a ban" but rather "does this deserve a punishment" instead, and the answer to that question is yes. You spend a good amount of the game calling for reports, insulting, name-calling and arguing with others. None of this is acceptable behavior, and even if they started it/were worse, that doesn't justify your own bad behavior. Thus the punishment is deserved. From now on if you can't interact with others without resorting to things like insults and name-calling then don't respond at all.
: Why the fuck is swearing a permaban
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: So.. what happens to all the $$ i spent?
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: I know how to fix the afk problem. The team that has afk doesnt lose LP. This will make things so much easier and a lot less tilting
> [{quoted}](name=GL at MCdonaldss,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ha0P9Vmy,comment-id=0000000100000002,timestamp=2019-09-09T17:05:01.697+0000) > > I know how to fix the afk problem. The team that has afk doesnt lose LP. This will make things so much easier and a lot less tilting Many have suggested this and it would just be open to abuse and encourage losing teams to try to bully someone into afking just so they can avoid losing LP. It also would just increase the afk problem and not solve it. Sorry but that's not gonna happen.
: I suppose they really came up......**CLUTCH**........ {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
> [{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XzwP7h1F,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-09T01:17:22.553+0000) > > I suppose they really came up......**CLUTCH**........ > > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} Yes indeed, they really did dig deep to finally clutch their way to a victory. *ba dum tiss*
Rioter Comments
WaryPlayz (EUW)
: The banning system needs a change
Feel free to post your chat logs if you wish to discuss your ban as swearing is only punishable when directed at others. That aside if he got reported and has a history of poor behavior then he'll be punished as well. Things like "kys" get a 14-day ban as the first punishment and not a CR as one shouldn't need a warning to know it's unacceptable.
Bad Shaco (EUNE)
: So if you dont't unban people stop spamming us with League Of Legends advertising on youtube.com. The community dies, and is just your fault. Other games which i'm not gonna mention here takes your players, and once they leave they never came back. RIP LOL 2019. Use to be the King but now is not even a buffoon at the royal court of the games. 99% of bans are comming beacause of toxicity in chat, and YOU, as company fail to prevent this. Once again RIP LOL.
> [{quoted}](name=Bad Shaco,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9cQEd1IV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-06T17:01:57.429+0000) > > So if you dont't unban people stop spamming us with League Of Legends advertising on youtube.com. The community dies, and is just your fault. Other games which i'm not gonna mention here takes your players, and once they leave they never came back. RIP LOL 2019. Use to be the King but now is not even a buffoon at the royal court of the games. 99% of bans are comming beacause of toxicity in chat, and YOU, as company fail to prevent this. Once again RIP LOL. Us forum mods don't work for Riot and have no control over what people see on social media. Next time try doing some research and fact checking before blindly raging at us.
: Permanently Banned for 1 game, 0 previous punishments, light flame.
If you truly had no prior punishments then hopefully Riot Support can get that straightened out and assign a proper punishment here, as make no mistake the behavior shown in these logs absolutely deserves a punishment.
Wham III (NA)
: I would completely agree if it were for something more serious than chat; I really would, but chat is there and people are going to use it whether it's positive or negative and I've never met someone who is so positive that they ignore every single person who "flames" them. Therefore, deletion because of chat is just plain madness to me. I've never seen something like this before and I've played many, many video games.
> [{quoted}](name=Wham III,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XXoxrwhl,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-06T02:57:56.753+0000) > > I would completely agree if it were for something more serious than chat; I really would, but chat is there and people are going to use it whether it's positive or negative and I've never met someone who is so positive that they ignore every single person who "flames" them. > > Therefore, deletion because of chat is just plain madness to me. I've never seen something like this before and I've played many, many video games. Well things like trolling, inting, hate speech and death wishes are given a 2-week ban as the first offense since one shouldn't need a warning to know those are unacceptable forms of behavior. That aside no one expects saintly or perfect behavior all the time, just some basic self-control, common sense and decency. I use chat quite often in my games, though it's usually for simple things like "gj" or "ashe ultless" or "farm to late game and we can win this". That said I'm certainly not perfect and definitely get frustrated at things. However I simply yell and rage at the screen instead of in chat, or I punch a pillow or my chairs armrests, as that way I can vent my frustrations without compromising my teams chances of success. I also don't like using the mute button unless I absolutely have to as I can generally just ignore what people say without letting it get to me too much. I've played many video games myself and while LoL certainly isn't the first I've played that punishes for poor chat behavior, it's definitely the most famous one to do so. Times are changing, and more and more companies are cracking down on poor behavior, including poor chat behavior. which in my opinion is a good thing, since it's helping to get the message across that anonymity is not nor should be a catch all excuse. It may seem strange but at least Riot is willing to give people the opportunity to improve their behavior before banning them as opposed to just banning them outright with no chance to reform like other companies would. They're not going to give someone infinite chances though, and if they've shown time & again that they're more interested in harassing others whether in chat or otherwise than actually playing the game itself or being mature/civil then I see no reason why Riot (or any company/business for that matter) shouldn't permaban them since they're not the type of customer that's good for business or the overall community.
Wham III (NA)
: @Dev. - Ban. & Deletion Because of Chat
You are not the first person to think that Riot banning people for chat related offenses is unfair, nor will you be the last. Think of it this way: after you give someone multiple minor punishments (in this case chat restrictions) why wouldn't you bump up the severity of the punishments (in this case to account bans) if they show that the minor punishments aren't working? Riot did try infinitely scaling chat restrictions before the IFS was introduced and found that some people would rack up hundreds to thousands of CR games due to using their limited messages to continue to harass others. Other people with this restriction decided to switch to gameplay harassment (trolling, inting, etc.) when they couldn't effectively grief via chat. This is why there are only two levels of chat restrictions before jumping to a 2-week ban: to try to hammer home the fact that actions have consequences. Yes there's a mute button but it's not an excuse to be a bully or a jerk, and if one can't interact with others without using the excuse "if you don't like me flaming you then just mute me" then that's on them, not Riot. Also, it is possible to drop punishment tiers by displaying consistently sportsmanlike behavior, thereby getting more than 3 chances (35-CR games+2-week ban) before getting permabanned. At the end of the day though chat restrictions and bans only can only do so much on their own, and it's up to the players themselves to actually work to rectify what's wrong in their behavior. It's not Riot's fault if one chooses to disregard the warnings, nor is it a sign that they don't care about their players. On the contrary, it shows that they care enough that they're willing to remove people who have shown an unwillingness to behave properly despite all the chances given to them. To quote [Umbral Regent]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/bIQEEAVN-perma-bans?comment=0000): >If you got your main account permanently banned, the only way you can prove your reform is to not get any further accounts banned. >Riot isn't going to give you infinite chances, they have to put their foot down somewhere - and that somewhere happens to be after the 14-day ban. If you can't be bothered to listen to three separate warnings _at the very least_, then, why should your main account be given a fourth try? You've already proven three separate times that you don't care about the rules. >My opinion is that if you're worth getting your account back, you wouldn't have gotten it banned in the first place. NOTE: I'm aware you've only gotten a 2-week ban but the point of the quoted message is still relevant imo.
Aphröditè (EUNE)
: Unban
Sorry but punishments not given in error are never overturned. If you truly valued your account then you should've thought of that before it got permabanned.
: Account suspended
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Voldymort (EUNE)
: A message for perma banned players who are annoyed about the money they invested in the account
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AGUIU (EUW)
: How can i know for how many games i am in low priority queue?
> [{quoted}](name=AGUIU,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eHGdgA3h,comment-id=008f,timestamp=2019-09-01T20:59:09.911+0000) > > How can i know for how many games i am in low priority queue? From the [Leaverbuster FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752714-LeaverBuster-FAQ#h2q2): >**HOW LONG WILL I REMAIN IN THE LOW PRIORITY QUEUE?** You will be placed in the low priority queue for 5 games. If you continuously leave, the low priority queue timers increase from 5 minutes per game to 10 minutes per game and then capping out at 20 minutes per game. >**IT'S NOT MY FAULT. MY INTERNET/YOUR SERVERS DISCONNECTED ME. I HAD A REAL-LIFE EMERGENCY. I HAD TO GET OFF THE COMPUTER. THE GAME CRASHED. UNBAN ME!** We understand that players may be forced to leave from time to time so the system has been designed to keep these situations in mind. After leaving a few games, you will be placed into a low priority queue; as long as you can complete 5 matchmade games without leaving, you will be returned to the normal queue. However, if you continue to leave games, you will remain in the low priority queue.
swci12 (NA)
: Banning ally's champion is unnecessary and should be prohibited
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: > [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=byNaeKqg,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-09-01T09:58:49.406+0000) > > But then people could just keep paying over and over again to get away with consistently ruining the experiences of other players-it would favor toxic whales over anything else. These players would also drive away customers, both current ones and potential new ones as well. LoL already has a reputation for having an unwelcoming community so this would just exacerbate that issue as far as I can tell. > > At the end of the day while we all know you hate the very idea of permabans even you have to admit that at some point it's better to just cut your losses with someone when they've consistently proven unwilling to cooperate rather than allow them to essentially bribe their way out of trouble. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): I like discussing this topic, and you make good points. My only concern with banning toxic players is this, what about players like me who get mad and talk shit back to people sometimes and get my chat ban, but after so many times I too will get a perma, but I am not really a toxic guy. I am a serious player who wants to win, and I try to do all in my power to win and not be toxic most games, its just those few times when someone pushes me over the edge. I don't want a perma ban, when clearly I am playing with the bronze scuttlebutts that troll a lot, and I am only trash talking them after they do it to me most times. I have a lot of money invested but I can't trust that I will get to keep all my champs and skins so I am wallet shy with Riot now. I mean, I have a valid point here, because I know I am not that bad compared to some of the shit birds that play this game, I am just out spoken and make those technical chat mistakes, but I am not a huge jerk. This brings me into the next part of the issue, and that is the low ELO toxicity. Why is the low elo full of shit birds, but the higher elos aren't? Its a known thing. Why does honor govern your Elo cap too? I mean it doesn't directly, but they basically put people is shit ELOs who have lost honor, and place zero honor people with other zero honor people, which means placing trolls with trolls, and having a bottom of the barrel team building process.... not fair. But if you are "good" and do what Riot says, then you can advance in rank, because you'll be carried by nice player with honor points.... This system seems very unfair to me. It is one thing for the game to have bans and punishments for being a dick, but a whole other to keep players down by grouping them into a bronze prison they will never escape.
> [{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=byNaeKqg,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-09-01T11:23:08.073+0000) > > I like discussing this topic, and you make good points. My only concern with banning toxic players is this, what about players like me who get mad and talk shit back to people sometimes and get my chat ban, but after so many times I too will get a perma, but I am not really a toxic guy. > I am a serious player who wants to win, and I try to do all in my power to win and not be toxic most games, its just those few times when someone pushes me over the edge. > I don't want a perma ban, when clearly I am playing with the bronze scuttlebutts that troll a lot, and I am only trash talking them after they do it to me most times. I'm a competitive person myself, and I've had my moments where one or more players on my team frustrate me and get on my nerves. Have I gotten mad? Of course I have. Do I let it out? You bet I do. Do I do so in the chat? No, I just yell and rage at the screen instead. Not only is it faster than typing (at least to me anyways) but it also doesn't compromise my teams chances of success. Plus as a bonus I don't run the risk of being punished for poor behavior. None of us are perfect and we all have our limits, and I've certainly gotten an earful when I yell and rage in real life. That said I've noticed that the people who wind up being permabanned are the ones who are often unwilling to seek and/or use other outlets to vent their frustrations at. They are also often the ones who get surprised and mad when they're suddenly permabanned for their consistently poor behavior despite all the warnings they were given about it. Even if shouting at the screen isn't an option (which depending on where one actually lives may not be) there's still stuff like punching/screaming into a pillow, squeezing a stress ball or even punching on a punching bag and stuff like that. > I have a lot of money invested but I can't trust that I will get to keep all my champs and skins so I am wallet shy with Riot now. I personally haven't bought any gift cards myself in years. Between Riot's decision to remove Dominion and now Twisted Treeline (which I still don't fully buy their reasonings for doing so) as well as the Hextech Crafting feature I haven't really had a reason to get another one. > I mean, I have a valid point here, because I know I am not that bad compared to some of the shit birds that play this game, I am just out spoken and make those technical chat mistakes, but I am not a huge jerk. Consistently plays a role, and like most companies while one or two slip ups here and there are usually excusable it's when it becomes a recurring theme that it's a problem. You can give all the warnings and mild punishments you want but if they're still acting up despite it all then it's usually best to just cut your losses with them and remove them for good. > This brings me into the next part of the issue, and that is the low ELO toxicity. > > Why is the low elo full of shit birds, but the higher elos aren't? > Its a known thing. Why does honor govern your Elo cap too? > I mean it doesn't directly, but they basically put people is shit ELOs who have lost honor, and place zero honor people with other zero honor people, which means placing trolls with trolls, and having a bottom of the barrel team building process.... not fair. I've never heard anything about honor level determining who you're matched with, so forgive me for finding it hard to believe. Mind providing a source for that info? > But if you are "good" and do what Riot says, then you can advance in rank, because you'll be carried by nice player with honor points.... > > This system seems very unfair to me. > > It is one thing for the game to have bans and punishments for being a dick, but a whole other to keep players down by grouping them into a bronze prison they will never escape. I don't play ranked (never have) but from what I understand if a player is stuck at X rank then it's usually because that's where their actual skill level is at. Obviously some other factors can contribute to being there but usually it's their overall skill level that's a major determining factor.
: Forward discussions require forward thinking
Wanting to have a discussion about something is fine, provided all parties involved are actually willing to listen and be at least somewhat open to other ideas. The problem with you however is that you seem to have a "my way or the highway" type of mindset and are quick to resort to things like insults and name-calling whenever someone disagrees with you. Having a civil discussion =/= lashing out at any and all non-Yesman answers, and no discussion can be had when one or more sides are not willing to remain at least somewhat civil in the face of disagreement or opposing ideas/statements. Being against certain rules and wanting to change them is fine, but lashing out when ones way isn't immediately given is not fine.
: Perma bans should not exist. I advocate it be a fine instead.
> [{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=byNaeKqg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-01T02:48:15.183+0000) > > Perma bans should not exist. > I advocate it be a fine instead. But then people could just keep paying over and over again to get away with consistently ruining the experiences of other players-it would favor toxic whales over anything else. These players would also drive away customers, both current ones and potential new ones as well. LoL already has a reputation for having an unwelcoming community so this would just exacerbate that issue as far as I can tell. At the end of the day while we all know you hate the very idea of permabans even you have to admit that at some point it's better to just cut your losses with someone when they've consistently proven unwilling to cooperate rather than allow them to essentially bribe their way out of trouble. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.
: After how many chat restrictions you start to get banned?
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: @Riot - 3 out of 5 is a majority
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BobFomistu (EUNE)
: Permanent Banned(Ticket Unban)
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CL04K (NA)
: Labeling people "toxic" is discriminatory.
Riot banning peoples accounts is perfectly reasonable when the person in question has proven time and again that they're not interested in acting mature. The line has to be drawn somewhere like it or not.
: > In the future if you can't voice your grievances without resorting to things like insults and the like then don't respond at all. Prandine, with all due respect, I think this is a little bit of an overstep. I'm not sure if the proper interpretation of the universal rules stretches to disallow expressing...intense...displeasure with Riot. Was the person also insulting any individual directly or just making baseless accusations? People shouldn't be censored for being wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=R7hEoGnk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-30T03:08:59.384+0000) > > Prandine, with all due respect, I think this is a little bit of an overstep. I'm not sure if the proper interpretation of the universal rules stretches to disallow expressing...intense...displeasure with Riot. Was the person also insulting any individual directly or just making baseless accusations? People shouldn't be censored for being wrong. First of all thank you to both you and KFCeytron for chiming out to me. Looking back at the post now with a fresh mindset I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand everything after the first sentence is fine, but on the other hand the first sentence can definitely be seen as insulting. Also it appears as though the OPs thread was originally posted in the Teamfight Tactics Bug Report subforum. My guess is the OG mod who did the deletion saw the first line & the forum it was in and decided to file the deletion under DBAJ. I can definitely check with the mod who handled the deletion though and see if they are willing to comment on this post. I've also edited my original post as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EsB8exIe,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-08-29T20:52:04.393+0000) > > To add onto this chat is meant to be used as a helpful communication tool, not as a place to flame others and get into chat wars at. The time one spends typing out insults and the like is time better spent actually playing/focusing on the game itself. For instance if you're dead you can use that time to communicate CDs, wards, enemy locations and the like as well as try to plan out strategies and game plans. Smart pings only do so much, and chat can help make up for those limitations. If one only wants to use the game as a means to abuse and harass others then I see no reason why they shouldn't be removed from it. In that case, ALLCHAT should be eliminated completely. Also: "Competitive BSing is fine. Hate speech? Not so much." would imply that Riot thinks that a certain amount of aggression in chat is healthy.
> [{quoted}](name=Judah the Hammer,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EsB8exIe,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-30T03:31:37.687+0000) > > In that case, ALLCHAT should be eliminated completely. I disagree, as there are players (such as myself) who have been able to use all chat without any major issues. If a players doesn't want to use all chat then they can disable it themselves, but I fail to see why it should be removed just because a select few people don't want to be civil with their opponents. > Also: "Competitive BSing is fine. Hate speech? Not so much." would imply that Riot thinks that a certain amount of aggression in chat is healthy. Depends on your definition of "aggression". For instance things like "nice flash" after a fail flash or "nice try but no" after an enemy failed to kill you are fine, but things like "omg you stink noob, uninstall" or "afk for going 1/5/6" are not fine. Basically be smart not stupid.
: Why is Riot Censoring my Post?
Hello. So I took a look and it was for violating the Don't Be A Jerk rule of the Universal Rules. Your thread was titled "Found out why Riot Support sucks" with your actual post being as followed: >I was asking this here support on my other account why their support team are lazy and suck. I found out they they don't have a central authority in the player support division. Meaning there is no one managing the player support team. They are pretty much only graded based on your surveys at the end of the support ticket. I'm sure this is in the wrong spot but I'm just keeping it real for you all. That is how Johnny C Do. They is how Johnny C Do. You claim to be "keeping it real" but all you're doing is insulting and antagonizing the Riot Support staff simply because of your bad experience with them. If you had some actual constructive criticism then that would be one thing, but your post was nothing of the sort and was just you being rude and disrespectful, hence the deletion. In the future if you can't voice your grievances without resorting to things like insults and the like then don't respond at all. EDIT (8/30/19): Neglected to mention this before (and apologies for that) but I wasn't the one who handled this deletion. Also us volunteer forum mods don't work for Riot so please keep that in mind for the future. Looking back on it now with a fresh mindset I can see why you might be confused by the deletion. Your post was in the TFT Bug Report subforum, which is for TFT related bugs, which your post was not. My guess is the OG mod who did the deletion saw the first line & the forum it was in and decided to file the deletion under DBAJ. Personally I don't have a problem with you posting it again, though obviously it would have to be in a different forum. Also I would recommend it be without the "why their support team are lazy and suck" line, as that's just needlessly antagonistic imo and doesn't really contribute anything to your topic as a whole from what I can tell. I'll try to get that mod to chime in here though so please be patient until then.
: "Yet you proved the exact opposite-that it does work." It does work by getting unjustly chat banned? True "Both are considered rude and disrespectful, with the former considered more-so." This isnt about disrespect or not, being disrespectful, its about is it punishable. Now if you're going to make the claim that i was being disrespectful, well then majority of league's playerbase is disrespectful and we should all get chat banned. Ever asked your team a question and no one responds? Thats disrespectful to ignore someone, does that mean my entire team needs to get chat banned. Bringing respect into an informal environment over the internet no less isnt a valid reason to punish a player. Where I can see your point its not enough to stand on is what im saying. "So because someone called you bad you felt it was automatically okay to call them trash back? Really? Do you not see how childish this mindset is?" So because i grew up in a time where bragging rights and trash talking made things fun, that automatically makes me wrong and childish? Its not about putting the other player down, its exactly as its called bragging rights and trash talk. Now you're being disrespectful calling my mindset at the time childish, would you say you deserve a chat ban for that? I wouldnt say so otherwise how would you get your point across. "Perhaps you did feel like it was just competitive banter, however to others it feels as though you were trying to push the limits on what you could get away with and are now upset that your luck ran out." Ill be completely honest with you, i dont really care about the chat ban it was never about removing the ban and more about showing the system will ban a player for typing often and using key words that it picks up on. And isnt assuming also rude and disrespectful? Arent you pushing the limits of not having your board post removed? Note: if you're a mod please dont remove this post even if you were going to, Im only making a point where and I'm not actually offended by any of this.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TQUKEMTz,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-30T00:00:40.378+0000) > > "Yet you proved the exact opposite-that it does work." > It does work by getting unjustly chat banned? True The IFS works on consistency X severity. In my opinion I don't consider your case an unjust chat restriction. > "Both are considered rude and disrespectful, with the former considered more-so." > This isnt about disrespect or not, being disrespectful, its about is it punishable. Now if you're going to make the claim that i was being disrespectful, well then majority of league's playerbase is disrespectful and we should all get chat banned. Ever asked your team a question and no one responds? Thats disrespectful to ignore someone, does that mean my entire team needs to get chat banned. Bringing respect into an informal environment over the internet no less isnt a valid reason to punish a player. Where I can see your point its not enough to stand on is what im saying. I must've missed that part, and if so my apologies. To address that point both are punishable, but from my experience calling someone trash is more likely to result in a punishment faster than one instance of calling someone bad. Regardless there's no reason to insult people, especially if they're ones you don't know. > "So because someone called you bad you felt it was automatically okay to call them trash back? Really? Do you not see how childish this mindset is?" > So because i grew up in a time where bragging rights and trash talking made things fun, that automatically makes me wrong and childish? Its not about putting the other player down, its exactly as its called bragging rights and trash talk. Now you're being disrespectful calling my mindset at the time childish, would you say you deserve a chat ban for that? I wouldnt say so otherwise how would you get your point across. There's nothing wrong with trash talk per-say, however it does have its limits, even in professional play. In this case I fail to see how either of these constitute as acceptable trash talk. > "Perhaps you did feel like it was just competitive banter, however to others it feels as though you were trying to push the limits on what you could get away with and are now upset that your luck ran out." > Ill be completely honest with you, i dont really care about the chat ban it was never about removing the ban and more about showing the system will ban a player for typing often and using key words that it picks up on. And isnt assuming also rude and disrespectful? Arent you pushing the limits of not having your board post removed? Note: if you're a mod please dont remove this post even if you were going to, Im only making a point where and I'm not actually offended by any of this. Here we go with the whole "typing allot=ban" thing. I've been playing since S2 and I type quite frequently in my games. I have never received so much as a warning. I'm no saint by any means, however I know better than to vent my frustrations in the chat. When I get frustrated I yell and rage at the screen and punch a pillow or my chair armrests. This allows me to vent my frustrations without compromising my teams chances of success. As for key words as far as I'm aware that only applies to ZTP things like slurs, death wishes and the like. Other than that it's consistently poor behavior displayed over multiple games that can result in a punishment.
: Thats because this entire test was to show riot the banning system does not work. Now i need to ask how is calling someone trash any different than telling someone you're so bad? What makes using the term "trash" verbal abuse in your opinion im curious? God bless you hit the nail on the head. "Let's say you meant it as banter. How is the other person supposed to know that?" Because he also called me bad prior to it. Thing is this is the problem with the system it doesnt take into account whats actually being sad. Me and this ziggs were going back and forth the entire game like this. Most of what i typed was responses and repeats of what the ziggs said. It was literally competitive banter but i cant show the entire chat log of the game because i dont have access to it.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TQUKEMTz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-29T22:47:59.676+0000) > > Thats because this entire test was to show riot the banning system does not work. Yet you proved the exact opposite-that it does work. > Now i need to ask how is calling someone trash any different than telling someone you're so bad? > What makes using the term "trash" verbal abuse in your opinion im curious? Both are considered rude and disrespectful, with the former considered more-so. > God bless you hit the nail on the head. > "Let's say you meant it as banter. How is the other person supposed to know that?" > Because he also called me bad prior to it. So because someone called you bad you felt it was automatically okay to call them trash back? Really? Do you not see how childish this mindset is? > Thing is this is the problem with the system it doesnt take into account whats actually being sad. Me and this ziggs were going back and forth the entire game like this. Most of what i typed was responses and repeats of what the ziggs said. It was literally competitive banter but i cant show the entire chat log of the game because i dont have access to it. Perhaps you did feel like it was just competitive banter, however to others it feels as though you were trying to push the limits on what you could get away with and are now upset that your luck ran out.
: Alrighty finally a moderator. Alright man/female/something so I fully understand that requesting reports for no reason for the sole reason of reporting. However I did not harrass or ask for false reports, I wanted justice asap. So how is what I said a punishable offense. And look I know I wont get unbanned, I've seen how people are treated on here and even when someone proves they were amiable at worse if the they get a ban they get the ban. I want to protect myself from a future ban. My history is pretty decent, I get loads of honors as a sup and I am usually the one that leads the team to victory. I am usually a defender, but as it is with playing a game to win having people disrespect me as a support eats away at you. I didn't go from the chat bans to banned in a span of a few weeks this was MONTHS apart. So even when I am a good influence on my team for months I have one bad game where I dont even use profanity or harrass or intimidate people I get the banhammer. I need to know of ways to reduce the "danger zone" between punishments or if I should refrain from playing league of legends for 1.5yrs in order to get back to neutral state. The reason for this is I have seen on here people play for MONTHS and then they get the perma ban hammer after getting mass reports back to back. How do I protect myself from an automatic system that obviously doesn't work.
> [{quoted}](name=Dan Marik,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bnpE86y9,comment-id=0003000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-29T21:24:12.211+0000) > > Alrighty finally a moderator. Alright man/female/something so I fully understand that requesting reports for no reason for the sole reason of reporting. However I did not harrass or ask for false reports, I wanted justice asap. So how is what I said a punishable offense. And look I know I wont get unbanned, I've seen how people are treated on here and even when someone proves they were amiable at worse if the they get a ban they get the ban. While it's true allot of threads here get heated, more often than not it's usually because the person in question just wants to argue with everyone and not actually have a civil discussion when it doesn't involve getting purely Yesman answers and nothing else. It's hard to remain civilized and calm when the person in question refuses to accept any answer or explanation that they don't want to hear even when there's proof presented that disproves their claims. >I want to protect myself from a future ban. My history is pretty decent, I get loads of honors as a sup and I am usually the one that leads the team to victory. I am usually a defender, but as it is with playing a game to win having people disrespect me as a support eats away at you. I didn't go from the chat bans to banned in a span of a few weeks this was MONTHS apart. So even when I am a good influence on my team for months I have one bad game where I dont even use profanity or harrass or intimidate people I get the banhammer. I need to know of ways to reduce the "danger zone" between punishments or if I should refrain from playing league of legends for 1.5yrs in order to get back to neutral state. The reason for this is I have seen on here people play for MONTHS and then they get the perma ban hammer after getting mass reports back to back. How do I protect myself from an automatic system that obviously doesn't work. The [Instant Feedback System FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-) and [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) may help you out but basically don't do or say anything that you know will just tick other people off, and mute/ignore the people who are more interested in harassing others and creating a negative environment. Also, the system while imperfect does work as evidence by the countless number of threads in PB alone of players getting validly punished for poor behavior. If you still feel your punishment was in error then you can always just file a [Support Ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us) and see if you can get it overturned that way.
: > That's where perma mute happens not just chat restricted. Now if they effect teammates then they get a ip ban at that point (Tyler 1 ban). First of all, Tyler1 didn't get an IP ban, he got an ID ban. Second, his ID ban was placed to cull his ability to stream League of Legends; it worked because he was high profile and it'd take no time at all to figure out he was playing on a new account and then ban it. It wouldn't work on random Joe Schmoes the same way. Third, why give them umpteen opportunities to misbehave and break the rules? Why restrict their options to the point where they actually _do_ start trolling and intentionally feeding, when you can just cut out the middle man and ban them when they prove to be a problem? And also, you're ignoring the fact that it is painfully difficult to accurately detect trolling/intentional feeding behaviors. Do you really, really want an uptick in trolls and feeders that are hard to detect, just to protect people from being permabanned _justly_ for continuous chat misbehavior? If they don't learn after the 10-game CR, or the 25-game CR, or the 14-day ban, they're not going to learn after a permanent chat mute. And if they can't be bothered to learn and play by the rules, Riot can't be bothered to have them playing at all.
To add onto this chat is meant to be used as a helpful communication tool, not as a place to flame others and get into chat wars at. The time one spends typing out insults and the like is time better spent actually playing/focusing on the game itself. For instance if you're dead you can use that time to communicate CDs, wards, enemy locations and the like as well as try to plan out strategies and game plans. Smart pings only do so much, and chat can help make up for those limitations. If one only wants to use the game as a means to abuse and harass others then I see no reason why they shouldn't be removed from it.
TsuTM (NA)
: Is it safe for me to add this or will I get banned?
If you're unsure then I would recommend erring on the side of caution and not doing it.
: Getting banned
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rKRex (NA)
: No it's not. The person who initiated the toxicity should be banned, the person who retaliated shouldn't. Period. That's how you prevent people from instigating, you punish them worse. It's simple logic.
> [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lH53BuLh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T17:46:30.457+0000) > > No it's not. The person who initiated the toxicity should be banned, the person who retaliated shouldn't. Period. That's how you prevent people from instigating, you punish them worse. It's simple logic. Except that's not how the world works. Two or more people arguing with each other just makes the situation works and also ruins the experience of everyone else who has to put up with it. "They started it/were worse" didn't work in school and it doesn't work here, and businesses will usually have no problem throwing all involved out. From the [Instant Feedback System FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-#h1q7): >**WHY WAS I PUNISHED WHEN THE OTHER PERSON WAS WORSE OR STARTED IT!** Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game. If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on. Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) For a more detailed explanation from [**Understanding the Tribunal**](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2726400): >**4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???** a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.
: Won't unban you bro that's how they keep the cash flow up. riot doesn't actually care about toxic players. There should be no perm for toxic behavior perm mute them and move on. its about money.
> [{quoted}](name=FatedDescents,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eHGdgA3h,comment-id=002d0000000000000003,timestamp=2019-08-25T19:52:24.020+0000) > > Won't unban you bro that's how they keep the cash flow up. riot doesn't actually care about toxic players. There should be no perm for toxic behavior perm mute them and move on. its about money. Except that they tried permanent mutes in the form of infinitely scaling chat restrictions before the IFS was introduced. The result was people using their limited messages to continue verbally abusing and harassing others and/or just switching to trolling, griefing and inting when chat abuse didn't work. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > It really breaks down into two categories. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely. > > We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it. > > We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling. > > The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS. > > So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat? This was just with infinite chat restrictions, so imagine how much worse it’d be with actual perma-mutes. If someone isn't gonna behave properly despite being given multiple chances to do so then why shouldn't they be removed from the game? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Yes Riot wants money (what company doesn't), so it's actually in their best interest to remove toxic players who won't reform from the game, as the people who aren't toxic will likely spend more over time than a toxic player will. While not all of Riot's decisions are good ones (removing TT and Dominion as prime examples imo), they at least care enough about the game to remove the people who don't care about being civil. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.
: Mid Season Invitational Thoughts
Hmm, I gotta say I like these ideas. That said my concern with the second idea is with the fact some regions play bo3's regularly and don't have all teams competing on the same day, and since I believe the Worlds dates are already announced in advance of the Summer Split (correct me if I'm wrong there) it would bring up some scheduling issues there as well if I'm not mistaken.
: > [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=qTlNNKfz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-26T02:02:57.656+0000) > > Everyone is judged separately and based on their own behavior alone. If they were reported and have a history of poor behavior then they too will be punished. That said, retaliation/they started it/were worse is not an acceptable excuse. If you must speak up then do so in a neutral or positive manner, or just mute/ignore them if that's not something you want to do. Understanding that "everyone is judged separately and based on their own behavior alone", why don't you ever understand the exact opposite. Instead it only seems to matter that this person was reported 4 times (I think was the limit), but what is never looked into is... "is this person's regular attitude, game-play style, or overall personality, or was he antagonized and retaliated like a regular human does", has he performed well with his "team" several times. No, because these reports are never "forgiven" nor go away nor does "another persons actions doesn't excuse your own"...... cop out..... Keep putting things off afraid to speak up .... hell we already tarnished the world and let tobacco kill billions of people and sell it daily and treat it as a social regular. Whatever... You are the "moderator" so I'm guessing you hold wait. Lift my ban by Sept 10th or ... whelp good luck to League Of Legends.
> [{quoted}](name=1mn0tu420,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=qTlNNKfz,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-08-28T00:53:30.682+0000) > > Understanding that "everyone is judged separately and based on their own behavior alone", why don't you ever understand the exact opposite. Instead it only seems to matter that this person was reported 4 times (I think was the limit), Number of reports don't matter as it only takes one to flag a game for review. > but what is never looked into is... "is this person's regular attitude, game-play style, or overall personality, or was he antagonized and retaliated like a regular human does", has he performed well with his "team" several times. Why should that matter? You could be the best performing player but still deserve a punishment if you were consistently behaving poorly. Just because you're a good player at the game doesn't mean you should get a free pass if/when you act up behaviorally consistently. >No, because these reports are never "forgiven" nor go away nor does "another persons actions doesn't excuse your own"...... cop out..... Keep putting things off afraid to speak up .... hell we already tarnished the world and let tobacco kill billions of people and sell it daily and treat it as a social regular. Hate to break it to you but real life works like this too. Most businesses/establishments don't care who started a fight and will usually be more than willing to throw all involved out since they're all causing a disturbance. Yes self-defense does have some merits in real life but it's not a be-all end-all excuse for every instance of poor behavior, and in a video game it has even less merits when you can just mute the offender in questions chat. Also, there's nothing wrong with speaking up but there's a time and a place for that, and derailing a game just to argue with someone is not the appropriate time or place to do so. If you want to chime in say once or twice then that's fine, but if it's clear they're not listening to what you have to say then just drop it and move on rather than dedicate your time to arguing with them. >Whatever... You are the "moderator" so I'm guessing you hold wait. Lift my ban by Sept 10th or ... whelp good luck to League Of Legends. I and the other volunteer forum mods don't work for Riot, and we don't control in-game punishments. That said even if we could lift in-game punishments (which again we can't do) can you honestly say you deserve to have it be lifted given your overall attitude in this thread?
: Getting banned for no reason
Everyone is judged separately and based on their own behavior alone. If they were reported and have a history of poor behavior then they too will be punished. That said, retaliation/they started it/were worse is not an acceptable excuse. If you must speak up then do so in a neutral or positive manner, or just mute/ignore them if that's not something you want to do.
: Jensen doesn't deserve anything. He doesn't deserve to be playing as a pro, he doesn't deserve any trophies, and he certainly doesn't deserve sympathy for being benched once. I'll agree with Doublelift being toxic, but let's be honest that what got Jensen banned makes DL look like an innocent child.
> [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=BXvApUB1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-26T00:59:27.716+0000) > > Jensen doesn't deserve anything. He doesn't deserve to be playing as a pro, he doesn't deserve any trophies, and he certainly doesn't deserve sympathy for being benched once. > I'll agree with Doublelift being toxic, but let's be honest that what got Jensen banned makes DL look like an innocent child. By that logic IWillDominate doesn't deserve to play because he got banned for toxic behavior when he was on Dignitas, or Vasili shouldn't be eligible to play again next split for extreme misconduct and domestic violence, or the players who were caught elo boosting should be banned from playing again. Yes Jensen Ddossing people and being toxic was wrong and he was rightfully punished for it, no ones denying that. That said, there are [numerous accounts](https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings) of players being penalized and/or banned for poor behavior, so why is it that Jensen is apparently the only one that shouldn't be allowed to play because of his screw-ups back then? That aside I don't agree with the OPs mentality here at all and feel they're blowing it all out of proportion.
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Prandine

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