: Read my name
1) The mute button is not a get out of jail free card and is meant to be a band-aid solution at most. If you can't interact with others without forcing them to mute you then there's a problem with your behavior. Also, before you say it no, retaliation or they started it/were worse is not acceptable here. If someone is acting up, report them and don't stoop to their level. 2) Typing allot is not the issue (unless it's spam), it's abusing and harassing others that is. If all you're using chat for is to put others down, insult others, make threats and generally be unpleasant instead of actual helpful communication then you're using it wrong. 3) There are plenty of examples of trolls and inters being banned such as these: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2Xkw0yE4-first-ban-and-14-days https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Wb6xkgzF-what-for-14-day-ban It's not as fast as we'd like due to having to prove intent, but when it is caught the person in question receives a 14-day ban first offense. 4) It only takes one report to flag a game for review, with multiple reports not changing that. If the report is false then it's thrown out. From [Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/t4BNHARj-banned-again?comment=00030000000000000002) (aka the guy who wrote the entire system): >4+ reports is the same as 1. >A report, or 9 reports, flag a game for review. >if (reports > 0) { reviewGame(); } If you're getting punished allot then chances are it's because you're consistently displaying unsportsmanlike conduct rather than getting mass reported. 5) We're aware people can make new accounts but Riot has ways of tracking alt accounts, and iirc lower leveled ones are judged harsher as well. Regardless you'll just keep getting accounts banned if you refuse to shape up, so it really is time wasted that could be better spent actually playing the game and not trying to ruin it for others just because you're mad you're not allowed to misbehave consequence free.
: then why aren't they banned faster? I mean, you guys CLAIM the system is "instant feedback" that is not instant feedback and looks lazy like your job here.
> [{quoted}](name=RacoonHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k59Ku1y0,comment-id=000300000000000500000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T00:45:59.037+0000) > > then why aren't they banned faster? I mean, you guys CLAIM the system is "instant feedback" that is not instant feedback and looks lazy like your job here. First off, us volunteer forum moderators and specialists do not work for Riot - we're just fellow players just like anyone else with special forum privileges and/or name tags. Second off, the problem with busting intentional feeders and trolls is that proving intent to troll or int as opposed to having a bad game or just simply playing off-meta is far more difficult to do compared to simple chat related offenses. There's also the matter of validly banned trolls and inters rarely coming to the forums to complain about it, as more often than not they already know what got them in trouble. Trust me, we all wish that these types of players were punished faster and more consistently than they are now, and that's something Riot definitely needs to work on improving, but they do get punished as the examples I listed shows.
: I got wrongly perma-banned for using third party programs. Please help
Hello, I've removed both the image and one of the names as they violated the no naming and shaming rule. I understand you're upset but naming and shaming is not the answer here. Please keep this in mind for the future. Feel free to contact us at the [Moderation Discord](https://discordapp.com/channels/230113905668653056/306220435262144512) or at [Discuss the Boards]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) for any questions, comments or concerns about this. Thank you and have a good day.
Ty2999 (NA)
: I think they should cause I'm tired of getting mass reported by premades that get mad over me trying to make valid points and not be toxic about it. The only times I have been chat restricted is cause of the premade ganging up on me just for trying to talk and communicate with the team and provide a solution
> [{quoted}](name=Ty2999,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HcocKwIB,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-12-06T18:22:14.763+0000) > > I think they should cause I'm tired of getting mass reported by premades that get mad over me trying to make valid points and not be toxic about it. The only times I have been chat restricted is cause of the premade ganging up on me just for trying to talk and communicate with the team and provide a solution It only takes one report to flag a game for review, with multiple reports not changing that. If the report is false then it's thrown out. From [Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/t4BNHARj-banned-again?comment=00030000000000000002) (aka the guy who wrote the entire system): >4+ reports is the same as 1. >A report, or 9 reports, flag a game for review. >if (reports > 0) { reviewGame(); } If you're getting chat restricted chances are it's because you're displaying unsportsmanlike conduct rather than getting mass reported.
: the hopes of reverting permabans
While Necromancy may be handy (and sometimes needed) in media, it is not the case for old forum threads. Please avoid using such magic and be mindful of how old threads are before posting. Feel free to contact us at the [Moderation Discord](https://discordapp.com/channels/230113905668653056/306220435262144512) or at [Discuss the Boards]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) for any questions, comments or concerns about this. Thank you and have a good day.
: Why not HWID ban repeat offenders?
While Necromancy may be handy (and sometimes needed) in media, it is not the case for old forum threads. Please avoid using such magic and be mindful of how old threads are before posting. Feel free to contact us at the [Moderation Discord](https://discordapp.com/channels/230113905668653056/306220435262144512) or at [Discuss the Boards]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) for any questions, comments or concerns about this. Thank you and have a good day.
: Should just chat ban toxic players until the end of time, leave them to play with their accounts that they've no doubt spent years building up. If they are being reported for inting, ban them from ranked indefinitely. At least let them keep the champions and skins they've spent years to unlock. Perma bans shouldn't be a thing, bans don't change people. Restrictions stop them.
> [{quoted}](name=XGL Potleg,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FAhjx7dJ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-05T23:42:06.393+0000) > > Should just chat ban toxic players until the end of time, leave them to play with their accounts that they've no doubt spent years building up. > > If they are being reported for inting, ban them from ranked indefinitely. > > At least let them keep the champions and skins they've spent years to unlock. > > Perma bans shouldn't be a thing, bans don't change people. Restrictions stop them. Perma-mutes sound great on paper, but unfortunately in practice it doesn't work as Riot found out when they tried perma-mutes in the form of infinitely scaling chat restrictions. It didn't work for two main reasons. 1. People who racked up hundred of thousands of CRs often used their limited messages to continue to harass others, while those that didn't found it close to impossible to work them all off. 2. The ones who couldn't abuse people through chat just swapped to trolling and griefing, things much harder to detect and prove intent for than simple chat-based offenses are. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > It really breaks down into two categories. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely. > > We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it. > > We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling. > > The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS. > > So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat? As for the ranked ban argument, I don't know why people think this is a good idea as it's not. Ranked may be considered more competitive than the other modes but not everyone plays ranked, and if someone is being toxic then they shouldn't be allowed to just switch to another mode and continue to be toxic while acting like nothing ever happened to them. That's not fair to the people playing non-ranked modes (they now have a problem child to deal with) and it's not fair to the person displaying the problematic behavior (they don't learn that the rules apply to all game modes equally). If Jack is consistently causing trouble for everyone and refuses to stop then they should not be allowed to play period as a consequence of their behavior.
: Please Bring back Tribunal
No, the system we have now (which was made with data gathered from the Tribunal) while not perfect is far more effective than the Tribunal ever was. From [Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/AAbMvhLY-why-cant-we-have-the-tribunal-back?comment=0002): >Actually, not. >The tribunal was pretty slow. So slow, that it couldn't keep up with the number of cases coming in. By the time we shut it down, people were being penalized many months .. maybe more .. after the behavior. >Maybe by the time the player was penalized they are no longer exhibiting that behavior? >But certainly, the feedback loop is so long that reform from a penalty is highly unlikely because the individual won't remember the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Al3Q4nN2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-04T19:28:34.765+0000) > > Here are two recent examples of inters getting banned: > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2Xkw0yE4-first-ban-and-14-days > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Wb6xkgzF-what-for-14-day-ban > > If that's not enough here's some more: > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/E4LnThmW-most-ridiculous-chat-restriction-i-have-ever-seen-in-my-life?comment=0011 > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KHAL90oW-stuck-at-honor-zero?comment=0003 > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3jEVVlsY-permanently-banned-with-ingame-log?comment=003e > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?comment=0039 > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/sU5wOfFJ-proof-that-the-automated-system-is-broken?show=rundown > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/GrmPK5yP-intentional-feeding-but-i-didnt-feed?comment=0006 > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/MKBQUoKd-banned-for-intentionally-feeding > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KTq4tjIF-i-dont-get-it-how-riot-bans-a-player-because-another-kid-draven-decides-to-take-all-the-kills > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xW5z7auF-proof-that-riot-employees-ban-without-providing-clear-evidencecertainty-of-an-infraction > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RAfb0McT-got-banned-for-intentional-feeding-for-a-game-with-02-death > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/5bqNJurI-banned-for-a-bad-game > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/f9P7YRXv-bad-game-i-guess > > As you can see they do get banned. Not as fast as we'd like but they do get banned nevertheless. I get what you try to communicate, but the first two are from like 2 weeks ago and the rest from 1-2 years ago. I...don;t know if this paints the picture you want.
> [{quoted}](name=NelsieLisnen,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Al3Q4nN2,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-05T23:24:28.039+0000) > > I get what you try to communicate, but the first two are from like 2 weeks ago and the rest from 1-2 years ago. I...don;t know if this paints the picture you want. I do understand your concern, and while I'm aware that some of them are pretty old, considering we rarely get threads in PB of inters and trolls complaining about their bans I've just gotta work with what I've got. I do try to update my list whenever recent cases appear though while keeping the old ones in the back just in case recent ones aren't enough to convince someone that these players do get banned.
: What should validate a permanent ban?
I feel that if someone is consistently causing a negative environment (whether by consistent flaming, harassment, bullying, trolling, inting, griefing, etc.) and refuses to stop despite all the chances they get then they should be permabanned, as just like in real life you can only get so many chances before enough is enough. I do understand that people aren't perfect and make mistakes, and for those situations I do believe in second chances, but not infinite ones. Now as for common excuses (and note that I use "you" in the general sense here and not you specifically): * "I spent money on this game" Yeah, and? It's a free to play game with only optional cosmetics and champions (the latter of which you can get with in-game currency anyways) as purchasable items. Not only that but you're not paying to gain immunity to punishments or disciplinary actions, and most other businesses don't care if you're a paying customer: if your disruptive behavior is causing other potential paying customers to leave or avoid the place (and therefore driving away business) then they have every right to kick you out, and without a refund. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic. * "I deserve a refund since I got booted" No, you really don't. Refunds are generally only given out for things outside of your control, such as an error in the system or a product defect. Your behavior is something that IS inside of your control though, and are you entitled to a refund if it gets to the point where the establishment you're at is forced to kick you out? No, absolutely not, as that's on you not them. * "There's a mute button/language filter if you can't handle me flaming you so use them!" The mute button =/= a get out of jail free card & is meant to be a band-aid solution at most. Likewise the mature language filter is there for those who'd prefer not to see that language in their games but it doesn't mean you can cuss out others and get away with it. Yes people should use those tools if need be, but at the same time expecting others to use those tools just so you can bully and harass them scott free is not okay. That kind of mindset just makes you look like the sensitive one honestly. There's also no rule stating that they can't use those tools AND also report you for poor behavior as well. * "People who can't handle flame or trolling are oversensitive" I disagree as often the opposite is true. It's not that people can't handle it - they can, they'd just rather prefer those people not act that away around them or others. If anything the people who use this kind of argument are often the oversensitive ones themselves & are just looking for others to blame to avoid taking responsibility themselves. To an extent I get it, some people do take things way too personally and/or are unwilling to accept the viewpoints and beliefs of others. That said, the sensitivity argument (aka "the boy who cried wolf") can only go so far before the user of it has to be looked at to see if they're just abusing it to get attention or shift focus away from them. There's nothing wrong with expecting sportsmanlike conduct from people and holding them accountable if they don't show it. * "It's just a game so who cares how I act?" This just feels like a cop-out to me. Yes it's a game, one that we play for fun, but like any multiplayer game it's one you're playing with real people. and those real people do care about how you act. Word of mouth is an important and powerful tool, and because of that, often times if you develop a reputation for poor behavior (being a sore loser/winner, quick to anger for the slightest of things, argumentative and combative, etc.) then people will just stop wanting to play with you because of it, which in turn will make it harder for you to find people to play the game with. On the flipside if you develop a reputation for being respectful and fun/good to work/play with then you can often find more people willing to play with you than you would otherwise. _________________ I could go on but basically there's nothing wrong with handing a permanent ban to someone if after being given many chances they still haven't shaped up. I get that emotions and tempers can get heated up sometimes and that we may say or do stuff we may regret later. It happens to all of us and I think giving or being given a second chance is important so we can try to make up for those mistakes. That said, if we still keep acting that way despite all the chances we've been given to improve then are we really still worth having around after all? It's unfortunate but some people only truly learn when they've lost everything, and even then it might still take them some time before they truly learn their lesson if at all. I think the following videos by Extra Credits do a good job highlighting some issues and recommend watching them when you have the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9GwmOWoqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9A8VJBh_Yc
: I also oppose the punishment system. I think a year of good behavior IS worth something. Doesn't matter how many agree though. I wish it were geared to remove the sorts you say, but really, it's those who have bad mouths. The bots do not regard intention or context, and I've yet to see a case outside of bugs or stolen accounts that Riot has reversed the ban/suspension. When it comes down to it, the punishment will stand. Further, Gatekeeper's actions are showing that you are easily provoked (though that's the impression I had from the beginning). You repeated what you already said as if what he said was invalid. It wasn't. You're showing that you are seeking validation. Which I will give you again. You deserve some grace for a year of good behavior. Good for you, but Riot doesn't care.
> [{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T05:58:58.804+0000) > > Yes, i agree the system sucks, and i do deserve SOMETHING for a year of behavior.. but i literally just got perm banned and have had a bad week while being sick so of course I'm not really in a good mood, I'm not super easily provoked- beside i stopped responding to him since i didn't want it to get toxic any more than it already had. So you can't just judge me based off that. > > If you were sick a week, behind in school a bit, upset and mad, kinda depressed, then got perm banned and someone started doing what he was doing i think you'd not take it too kindly either right..? > > Edit: also yeah, I've never seen riot actually reverse something, even if it was obviously needing to be. The only time i really have is for well known people. "Famous privilege" T1 unban is a great example but there's many more. They just don't care about the playerbase as much as they say they do. If they did, they'd make things more fair for people. Just wanted to chime in here. Riot is not perfect (far from it) but they have been known to overturn some cases when an error was made and make the punishment either lighter, non-existent or in some cases harsher. That said, these are very rare as most punishments are in fact deserved with the majority of people claiming that their punishments weren't often being the ones who hate being held accountable for their behavior, especially in a video game.
Tele II (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nightsky Pirate,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=17lsvzxk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-05T02:40:40.808+0000) > > Games where killing is involved. > > Sorry, that was smartass. Still... Thats an interesting point though. Like, Esports are a new thing. Do we have to follow the status quo that sports have had through history? I dont have an absolute opinion one way or the other, but it is food for thought. Should E sports be handled differently than physical sports? Hmmmmm
> [{quoted}](name=Tele II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=17lsvzxk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T04:21:45.499+0000) > > Thats an interesting point though. Like, Esports are a new thing. Do we have to follow the status quo that sports have had through history? I dont have an absolute opinion one way or the other, but it is food for thought. Should E sports be handled differently than physical sports? Hmmmmm Well esports players and teams in many regions have been known to face punishments such as fines and suspensions (temp and perm) for poor behavior (flaming, cheating, not paying players on time, etc.), and Dardoch in particular is a player known for being difficult to work with and has been on many teams due to issues with his behavior. In that regard esports are like traditional sports in a way where consistently poor behavior is met with penalties. There's nothing wrong in my opinion with expecting players (both pro and non-pro) to display sportsmanlike conduct and holding them accountable if they don't.
: Is trolling just considered okay?
Here are two recent examples of inters getting banned: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2Xkw0yE4-first-ban-and-14-days https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Wb6xkgzF-what-for-14-day-ban If that's not enough here's some more: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/E4LnThmW-most-ridiculous-chat-restriction-i-have-ever-seen-in-my-life?comment=0011 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KHAL90oW-stuck-at-honor-zero?comment=0003 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3jEVVlsY-permanently-banned-with-ingame-log?comment=003e https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?comment=0039 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/sU5wOfFJ-proof-that-the-automated-system-is-broken?show=rundown https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/GrmPK5yP-intentional-feeding-but-i-didnt-feed?comment=0006 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/MKBQUoKd-banned-for-intentionally-feeding https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KTq4tjIF-i-dont-get-it-how-riot-bans-a-player-because-another-kid-draven-decides-to-take-all-the-kills https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xW5z7auF-proof-that-riot-employees-ban-without-providing-clear-evidencecertainty-of-an-infraction https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RAfb0McT-got-banned-for-intentional-feeding-for-a-game-with-02-death https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/5bqNJurI-banned-for-a-bad-game https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/f9P7YRXv-bad-game-i-guess As you can see they do get banned. Not as fast as we'd like but they do get banned nevertheless.
: I agree with this line of thinking. People pay money, and should be given as many chances as they need or refunded.
> [{quoted}](name=CominTowardsYa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EjJJA2Ee,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-12-03T20:51:05.330+0000) > > I agree with this line of thinking. People pay money, and should be given as many chances as they need or refunded. With that logic no one would ever be permabanned and the people who pay the most would get off scott free essentially. People already complain about trolls and inters not being banned as much as verbal abuse cases, so why implement a system that protects those players simply because they pay money? First off spending money is optional with only cosmetics being purchasable for real money. Second of all why should someone be given a refund if they've consistently caused a negative environment for many other customers? If you go to a restaurant and pay for your meal but then start causing a disruption to the point where you're forced to leave you don't magically get a refund, nor do you deserve it. Yes you spent money but that doesn't matter as there are many other customers who spent money and aren't causing disruptions. If you go to an arcade, spend money on tokens or whatever and then start harassing and shouting up a storm every time things don't go your way, the workers there will have you leave without a refund. The same thing applies here. Riot is a business & thus like any business they're under no obligation to give someone infinite chances or immunity to punishments, especially if the person in question has shown time & time again that they don't care about the rules. At that point it's better for everyone else to just remove the disrupter from the place & not give them a refund. Refunds are often only given to the customer for product or service errors out of their control, not when the customer in question is causing a negative environment for others if that makes sense. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic. I get that people want to protect their investment, but at the same time the investee is and should be under no obligation to keep protecting and coddling the investor every time they act up and vice versa if that makes sense. If people truly valued their money spent on the game then ideally they wouldn't misbehave to the point where Riot is forced to permaban them and ask them to leave. Riot may not be perfect and deserving of criticism for some of their actions but the whole "I spent money so I should be immune to consequences" argument people use just feels entitled to me personally.
: Yes "people" have decided that, sure. It is not large corporations that you are talking about here. This is just a way to censer what people say disguised as some kind of moral good. We all saw what happened to Blitzchung for his hurtful, biggoted words to the Chinese, what a toxic man.
> [{quoted}](name=Clockwork Mouse,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EjJJA2Ee,comment-id=00080000000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-03T18:51:39.669+0000) > > Yes "people" have decided that, sure. It is not large corporations that you are talking about here. This is just a way to censer what people say disguised as some kind of moral good. I disagree. People are still allowed to voice their frustrations and criticisms but aren't allowed to start throwing things like insults, name-calling, hate speech and death wishes around. That kind of stuff is unacceptable and is just a very poor way of getting ones point across in general. I fail to see how expecting people to exercise some basic levels of maturity, respect and decency and holding them accountable if they refuse to do so is wrong. Freedom of speech =/= freedom of speech consequences after all. >We all saw what happened to Blitzchung for his hurtful, biggoted words to the Chinese, what a toxic man. I definitely agree that Blitzchung's case was handled very poorly by Blizzard, and he shouldn't have received the punishment he got.
: Holy shit, that is one scary alliance. A bunch of corporations gathering around to try and control gamer's speech.
> [{quoted}](name=Clockwork Mouse,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EjJJA2Ee,comment-id=000800000001,timestamp=2019-12-03T14:58:59.903+0000) > > Holy shit, that is one scary alliance. A bunch of corporations gathering around to try and control gamer's speech. More like more and more people have decided that despite it being the internet/online games people should still be expected to interact with other real people in a mature and respectful manner and also be held accountable if they choose not to. Besides, just like in real life toxic/disruptive people drive away business, which in turn means less overall players/customers and money, so it's in the best interest of pretty much everyone as a whole to discourage toxic behavior as much as possible. Times are changing, and if people don't like being punished or held accountable for their behavior then maybe they should stop thinking that anonymity is a shield for them to act however they want consequence free.
: can you be banned for spamming emotes?
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: that's stupid. if I intentionally feed games. I will get off scott free because riot doesn't care about anyone that doesn't say racially or self harm remarks. Hell, I can literally say, Running it down mid, do just that, but as long as I'm not chatting, I WILL NOT BE PUNISHED. When's the last Friggen time someone has been punished for intentionally feeding in a ranked game?? I bet you the last time that happens, the browns made a playoff game.. Moderator response to this topic goes to show that riot does not care about it's player base. honestly, I can use my alternate account and intentionally feed in ranked all next season and I guarentee you, that account will never be touched. player behavior needs reworked and unfortnatly, by the response of this TOXIC moderator, It doesn't look like riot even cares anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=RacoonHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k59Ku1y0,comment-id=0003000000000005,timestamp=2019-12-03T03:50:32.125+0000) > > that's stupid. if I intentionally feed games. I will get off scott free because riot doesn't care about anyone that doesn't say racially or self harm remarks. Hell, I can literally say, Running it down mid, do just that, but as long as I'm not chatting, I WILL NOT BE PUNISHED. When's the last Friggen time someone has been punished for intentionally feeding in a ranked game?? I bet you the last time that happens, the browns made a playoff game.. > > Moderator response to this topic goes to show that riot does not care about it's player base. honestly, I can use my alternate account and intentionally feed in ranked all next season and I guarentee you, that account will never be touched. > > player behavior needs reworked and unfortnatly, by the response of this TOXIC moderator, It doesn't look like riot even cares anymore. Here are two recent examples of inters getting banned: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2Xkw0yE4-first-ban-and-14-days https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Wb6xkgzF-what-for-14-day-ban If that's not enough here's some more: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/E4LnThmW-most-ridiculous-chat-restriction-i-have-ever-seen-in-my-life?comment=0011 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KHAL90oW-stuck-at-honor-zero?comment=0003 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3jEVVlsY-permanently-banned-with-ingame-log?comment=003e https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?comment=0039 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/sU5wOfFJ-proof-that-the-automated-system-is-broken?show=rundown https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/GrmPK5yP-intentional-feeding-but-i-didnt-feed?comment=0006 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/MKBQUoKd-banned-for-intentionally-feeding https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KTq4tjIF-i-dont-get-it-how-riot-bans-a-player-because-another-kid-draven-decides-to-take-all-the-kills https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xW5z7auF-proof-that-riot-employees-ban-without-providing-clear-evidencecertainty-of-an-infraction https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RAfb0McT-got-banned-for-intentional-feeding-for-a-game-with-02-death https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/5bqNJurI-banned-for-a-bad-game https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/f9P7YRXv-bad-game-i-guess As you can see they do get banned. Not as fast as we'd like but they do get banned nevertheless.
: The fall of assassins in pro play
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: For that I think that ranked bans should be added, because as it stands there is currently no way to stop you from queuing up for ranked even if you go 0/20 multiple games in a row.
> [{quoted}](name=LanceTheMighty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EjJJA2Ee,comment-id=0004000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-01T23:01:12.481+0000) > > For that I think that ranked bans should be added, because as it stands there is currently no way to stop you from queuing up for ranked even if you go 0/20 multiple games in a row. So your solution is to allow toxic players to be toxic in other game modes? I don't know why people think this is a good idea as it's not. Ranked may be considered more competitive than the other modes but not everyone plays ranked, and if someone is being toxic then they shouldn't be allowed to just switch to another mode and continue to be toxic while acting like nothing ever happened to them. That's not fair to the people playing non-ranked modes (they now have a problem child to deal with) and it's not fair to the person displaying the problematic behavior (they don't learn that the rules apply to all game modes equally). If Jack is consistently causing trouble for everyone and refuses to stop then they should not be allowed to play period as a consequence of their behavior.
The Host (NA)
: Holding games hostage.
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scURVE (OCE)
: I have been permanently banned for fighting back in chat after being gameplay trolled by a pyke support who hooked thresh into me every chance he got, then proceeded to afk the game, and his possible duo in the jungle udyr who would watch people engage on me right next to him and get a kick out of watching me almost die, yes i was toxic in chat but after playing this game for close to 9 years you have permanently banned MY account and I can take no action back against these people. I would love for a riot employee to watch the game replay as the chat log does not show the extent of what actually happened. Game 1 In-Game scURVE: glhf scURVE: stop grabbning thresh would ya scURVE: the fuck scURVE: why scURVE: come bot scURVE: malz scURVE: ... scURVE: STOP{ GRABBING THERSEHJ scURVE: ASUIFHUIASDFHUIOASHD scURVE: STOP scURVE: fuckin scURVE: losing the lane for us scURVE: way to go feeder support scURVE: classic scURVE: stop scURVE: grabbing scURVE: thresh scURVE: you have one job scURVE: dont bring thresh on us to ult flay hook scURVE: ur just making him win scURVE: yeah just 1v2 here scURVE: i called them scroll up./ scURVE: wow scURVE: ive lost the will to win scURVE: i jsut dont care scURVE: 4v5 i was 1v2 botlane scURVE: im done scURVE: because youre a troll scURVE: 1v2 and u come bot when im not there scURVE: just expect me to carry on scURVE: dude youre shit scURVE: yeah? scURVE: udyr scURVE: bro scURVE: u kidding scURVE: u fucking watched them engage on me scURVE: while farming red scURVE: want to talk of no help scURVE: 3v5 scURVE: tho scURVE: we are 3v5 scURVE: pls scURVE: next game scURVE: 3v5 scURVE: please. scURVE: why so stubborn scURVE: get a scanner fuckhead scURVE: when was it 3v4 scURVE: the fuck you talking about %%%% scURVE: shut scURVE: the fuck scURVE: up scURVE: ur the worst on team scURVE: true scURVE: hes so dumb he doesnt know what muted means scURVE: holy shit
While it's unfortunate you got trolled in your game, you are still responsible for your own behavior, and other people behaving worse or starting it doesn't give you a free pass to act up yourself, which you should already be aware of at this point. As for defending yourself, retaliation is not the way to do so as it only gives trolls the exact reaction they want out of you. While not ideal the best way to deal with these kinds of players is to not give them the reaction they want. You can be frustrated all you want but by venting at the screen as well as playing around their actions the best you can you ensure that they don't drag you down with them. In fact, sometimes they'll even stop misbehaving if they see that no ones taking the bait. As for the permaban, you received it because you have a history of poor behavior and your 3 previous punishments weren't enough to get you to shape up enough. Don't get me wrong if they behaved poorly then they deserve to be punished as well, but their bad behavior doesn't excuse your own, hence the punishment. P.S. Even if a Rioter looked at the case the only thing it might do is get the trolls punished faster, but it wouldn't magically absolve you yourself.
: How do I report bots?
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: Is there anyway that permaban accounts still have a chance to get unbanned?
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: Tribunal
No, the system we have now (which was made with data gathered from the Tribunal) while not perfect is far more effective than the Tribunal ever was. From [Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/AAbMvhLY-why-cant-we-have-the-tribunal-back?comment=0002): >Actually, not. >The tribunal was pretty slow. So slow, that it couldn't keep up with the number of cases coming in. By the time we shut it down, people were being penalized many months .. maybe more .. after the behavior. >Maybe by the time the player was penalized they are no longer exhibiting that behavior? >But certainly, the feedback loop is so long that reform from a penalty is highly unlikely because the individual won't remember the game.
: TOTAL MISTAKE - Automated Tribunal Exposed
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SÎke (NA)
: Hi
Why hello there good person. I hope you enjoy your time with the game.
: Respect is earned. People that don't do their job don't deserve respect in League. If they lose a game they dont get respect imo
> [{quoted}](name=Kanyoupipu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zBNPuXJ,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T09:53:50.546+0000) > > Respect is earned. People that don't do their job don't deserve respect in League. If they lose a game they dont get respect imo I agree that respect is earned but I disagree that people who lose shouldn't get respect and feel that that's a pretty short-sighted viewpoint. You can lose a game but still earn respect depending on how you played and/or acted both during and after and likewise you can win a game but still not earn respect for those same reasons. Following your logic though no one who ever played this game (including you) would get respect whenever they lose simply because they lost, or does that logic only apply to others and not yourself?
: stop banning morgana!
Sorry but if people don't want to play with/against a Morgana or want to play as Morgana themselves then that's their choice to make, not yours. I understand you want to one-trick but the fact of the matter is you won't always get to do so (not even in blinds where there are no bans), and for those situations it's in yours and everyone's best interest to learn other characters so you'll at least be able to play something else rather than throw a hissy fit the moment you don't get your way. Lux is a character kinda similar to Morgana, so she can work as a substitute to Morgana in the event that she does get banned out or picked by someone else on your team.
: honor level is too hard to unlock/level up
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: Proof riot games punishment system doesn't work
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Déus Kun (EUW)
: did you ever heared of something called free speech? Are you actually telling that its totally ok that you are not allowed to say anything? Did you know that Michael Jordan was very toxic btw? This absolute inhuman political correcntes joke of player behaivor is a complete disaster. And if the rules apply to everyone btw, why i never ever get report feedback, even if they tell me to kill myself?
> [{quoted}](name=Déus Kun,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zXn4shri,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-11-29T07:58:17.206+0000) > > did you ever heared of something called free speech? Are you actually telling that its totally ok that you are not allowed to say anything? Did you know that Michael Jordan was very toxic btw? This absolute inhuman political correcntes joke of player behaivor is a complete disaster. And if the rules apply to everyone btw, why i never ever get report feedback, even if they tell me to kill myself? Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of speech consequences, and in terms of US law it simply means that the government can't make laws limiting speech. Furthermore, privately owned businesses like Riot Games are free to make their own rules regarding what is and isn't allowed, so the whole "free speech" argument doesn't apply or work here. If not being allowed to flame, bully or harass others is considered inhuman to you then you can always take your business elsewhere. As for the IFS Feedback message, you're not meant to get it every time, and not getting it does not mean the system is broken or that someone went unpunished.
: This is completely wrong. "verbal abuse" "toxicity" all those words are inconsistent and subjective, like feminists redefining "sexual assault" to mean cat calling. It is just the victim complex mindset run amok. You can quote whatever nonsense verbiage Riot puts out, but it is all meaningless to me. In reality, the player that does poorly, ints, throws the game, or is overly sensitive and tries to ban another play - they are the problem. If they are that sensitive they can use /muteall, or go play minecraft. This goes back to the "sticks and stones" saying... players today are too soft, its pathetic. If you mess up and someone flames you, get over it and don't mess up next game. I can't stand players that think a few mean words from an anonymous internet stranger are somehow making them the victim, while at the same time, said "victim" tries to get someone else banned because they are butthurt. The way I see it, "toxicity" if accurately defined, is a well-deserved angry response to incompetence. This is further exaggerated by League's inefficient, ineffective method of determining individual skill. I would rather have the "toxic" player that does his job, over the "nice" liability that can't stomach a few mean sentences.
> [{quoted}](name=Kanyoupipu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zBNPuXJ,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T02:33:36.739+0000) > > This is completely wrong. "verbal abuse" "toxicity" all those words are inconsistent and subjective, like feminists redefining "sexual assault" to mean cat calling. It is just the victim complex mindset run amok. You can quote whatever nonsense verbiage Riot puts out, but it is all meaningless to me. The quote I posted was from another player, but it just so happens to have a Riot quote in it. That aside this tells me that you've already made up your mind and are unwilling to see otherwise. Would I be correct in that assumption? > In reality, the player that does poorly, ints, throws the game, or is overly sensitive and tries to ban another play - they are the problem. If they are that sensitive they can use /muteall, or go play minecraft. This goes back to the "sticks and stones" saying... players today are too soft, its pathetic. If you mess up and someone flames you, get over it and don't mess up next game. Counter-point: if a player is sensitive enough that they have to flame others or otherwise intentionally ruin the game as soon as someone makes any sort of mistake then they shouldn't be playing multiplayer games since clearly they can't handle the fact that other people are going to mess up from time to time just like they do. This is especially true for those who have the mindset of "can dish it out but can't take it". > I can't stand players that think a few mean words from an anonymous internet stranger are somehow making them the victim, while at the same time, said "victim" tries to get someone else banned because they are butthurt. While the internet does make it easier to speak our minds thanks in part to anonymity, it doesn't change the fact that we're interacting with real people, so that shouldn't be a justification for someone to get away with poor behavior consequence free. > The way I see it, "toxicity" if accurately defined, is a well-deserved angry response to incompetence. This is further exaggerated by League's inefficient, ineffective method of determining individual skill. I see it more as people not wanting to play with someone who is quick to harass others or throw games at the drop of a hat rather than being offended or sensitive. Also, players who become known for having behavioral issues (i.e. Dennis Rodman, Dardoch, etc.) often end up having that overshadow their skill, thus making it that much harder for them to find teams to play for compared to players who don't have those issues. Sure, people shouldn't take offense so easily to insults (though I doubt many actually do), but at the same time the person flinging the insults shouldn't be so eager to say them in the first place, nor should they get off scott free with excuses like "it's just words" or "stop being so sensitive", as they can only go so far before they no longer work. Being passionate and/or competitive is one thing, being a bully or a jerk is another. > I would rather have the "toxic" player that does his job, over the "nice" liability that can't stomach a few mean sentences. And I and many others would much rather see people show some basic levels of respect and decency and not be willing to intentionally ruin the experience for others whenever they don't get their way. If you ask me those people are the actual sensitive ones since they also often can't handle being held accountable for their actions.
: This is the message i got: "Thanks for contacting our Player Support Team! We received your request (#43922941) . We do not recommend bumping your ticket unless you have additional information that we could use to help you since bumping your ticket will not reduce the wait time. If you want to review your request or add additional comments, click the link below: http://support.riotgames.com/hc/requests/43922941 We know waiting sucks, so we have added a Live Chat feature that can get you a faster answer between 1 and 9 PM Pacific Time, daily. You can always check if chat is active by going to the new ticket form (https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new), picking a category, and looking for "Start Live Chat" at the bottom of the page next to "Submit a Ticket". If you don't see it, make sure you set your region to North America in the form! This email is a service from Riot Games Player Support. Sent by Riot Games." does this mean that they will not bump my ticket as long as i dont send in another request? Thank you.
That's correct. Unless you actually have new information to add then responding/adding to the ticket is actually a hindrance to you since it will be sent to the back of the line, forcing you to wait longer than you would otherwise.
: Chat Ban 25 days. here is the log
First off, it's not 25 days but 25 games, there's a difference. As for this game in general you spend almost the entirety of it complaining and calling for reports, the latter of which is considered harassment since it only takes 1 report to flag a game for review. I totally get being frustrated by trolls and/or under-performing teammates but complaining about them and calling for reports against them all game long solves nothing and only makes you look bad. In the future if someone is behaving poorly you can ask them once or twice to stop, and if they don't then just drop it and move on and focus on your own game instead to the best of your abilities. Sometimes (but not always) they'll start behaving themselves on their own if no one gives them the attention they want. It's not a fool proof plan but it can happen.
: Why riot punishing me?
Other people behaving poorly does not excuse your own poor behavior. If they were reported and have a history of poor behavior then they too will be punished. Next time rather than engage in a flame war with a toxic player just mute, report and move on rather than stoop down to their level.
: Is it possible to send in video of int/afkers
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: How effective is the reporting system?
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Vlexy (EUNE)
: I got banned even though i wasnt toxic?
To answer your question yes, this is punish worthy behavior as you're constantly insulting others from the very start and calling your teammates stuff like trash, garbage and braindead. None of this is acceptable behavior, so it should come as no surprise that you got reported and punished for it. I can understand being frustrated by teammates but insulting your teammates and bossing them around in this manner is not okay. Since this was a permaban this means this isn't a one-off thing for you but rather a consistent trend that you were warned at least 3 times to stop. Because you failed to do so you got permabanned. In the future if you want to get people to listen to you then prove that you deserve to be listened to and don't resort to insults and name-calling whenever you don't get your way since that will have the exact opposite effect of what you want. If you wouldn't appreciate being called names then you shouldn't do it yourself.
: how many games does it take to get back to honor lvl 2 from honor lvl 1
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: > [{quoted}](name=Sinful Succubus,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zBNPuXJ,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-27T11:39:39.208+0000) > > "virtual murdering"other players is a requiement for winning the game > > "virtual mean words"are **not** and more often than not cause people to lose games due to all the meaningless drama they produce. > > are you here to play the game or argue people into a surrender? I'm here to have fun, trash talk is very fun and hilarious... but unfortunately Riot designs the game for the most sensitive lowest common denominator... Which makes no sense. It is much easier for the sensitive fragile players to mute all, rather than try to police what the big boys say. (but bans and alt accounts give Riot a lot of $$$$ for people addicted to the game)
> [{quoted}](name=Kanyoupipu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zBNPuXJ,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T00:39:22.232+0000) > > I'm here to have fun, trash talk is very fun and hilarious... but unfortunately Riot designs the game for the most sensitive lowest common denominator... Which makes no sense. > > It is much easier for the sensitive fragile players to mute all, rather than try to police what the big boys say. (but bans and alt accounts give Riot a lot of $$$$ for people addicted to the game) There's a difference between trash talking and talking like trash, something allot of people don't seem to know the difference between. Even in pro sports it has its limitations, which can result in fines or even punishments if taken too far. Nothing in the OPs chat log constitutes trash talking-it's just them yelling and raging at others, and this would definitely not be considered trash talking in professional sports under any circumstances. The only thing that could possibly be considered trash talking is this: >Delightful Mango: nice hexderinker Delightful Mango: attackdmg and attackspeed boorts Delightful Mango: nice That said though, given their behavior in the rest of the log even that's a stretch. As for the sensitivity argument, From [Ulanopo’s Knowledge Base](http://(http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=1#post43465401)): >**People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.”** >Let’s start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)): >**_Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?_** _Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player._ >Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules. >With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as ”Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair. >There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS. >This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this. Simply put, people need to stop using "it's just trash talk/banter and everyone else is just sensitive" as a catch-all excuse to try to justify poor behavior and just take responsibility for it instead. Also, accounts are free, and nothing relevant for any sort of competitive play requires real money spending of any kind. If one wants to spend real money on the game then that's their own choice not Riot's. That said, Riot doesn't want people to make new accounts (though they can't stop them from doing so) and would rather permabanned players (who have been written off as paying clients) find another game to play.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tele II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rkwemI8W,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-27T04:08:08.748+0000) > > It was definitely both the kys and the %%% comment obviously. Submit a support ticket about it, but dont get your hopes up. They generally dont give exceptions because you were just joking. i submit one i hope they change it because i was reading other people that only got a chat restriciton and said way worst
> [{quoted}](name=LoL Detective,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rkwemI8W,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-27T04:10:32.109+0000) > > i submit one i hope they change it because i was reading other people that only got a chat restriciton and said way worst And? The system may not be perfect but "they started it/were worse" still doesn't excuse your own behavior. Kys is treated harshly because you shouldn't need a warning to know not to tell others to kill themselves for any reaosn. In the future I would suggest avoiding making jokes like this as the vast majority of people don't find them funny. Also, if you're gonna use phrases that just so happen to use the acronym "kys" then just say the entire phrase without using the acronym. Not only will it ensure no misunderstandings happen (many people have tried and failed to pass off "kys" as something else) but it will also keep your account safe from discipline.
Jerrrge (NA)
: Foreign players being toxic in the NA server
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: I feel like shit talking is one of the best parts of games
Trash talking and even playful banter by itself are fine but even they have their limits, and no I'm not just talking about things like death threats or racial slurs. Cross that line or take it too far and you can expect to be held accountable for it, even in pro sports. At that point you're no longer trash talking but just talking like trash. There's nothing wrong with expecting or requiring at least some level of maturity and sportsmanship out of players. and the sad truth is that players who become known for behavioral issues can eventually have that overshadow their skill. Pro LoL player Dardoch is one such example, as though he's skilled at the game he's been on multiple teams due in part to being difficult to work with behavior wise. When it comes to the mute button while I do agree that people should use it when need be overall it is meant to be a band-aid solution at most, not a get out of jail free card or a catch-all excuse. As for the sensitivity argument, From [Ulanopo’s Knowledge Base](http://(http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=1#post43465401)): >**People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.”** >Let’s start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)): >**_Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?_** _Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player._ >Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules. >With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as ”Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair. >There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS. >This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this. Also, from [Riot Tantram]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3zQ7hXi0-a-cautionary-tale-unjust-suspension-by-the-automated-disciplinary-system?comment=000400050000): >People might be used to feeling powerful behind a computer monitor where people don't know who they are, but that's not how we look at things. >if you were playing a game of basketball, and told someone to go kill themselves because you were frustrated about losing, you'd be penalized. Would you be punched in the face for telling someone at the bar to go kill themselves? Probably. >It's not 'PC'. It doesn't take 'testicles' to hide behind a monitor and tell someone to kill themselves or call them a racial slur. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite.
H00KIE (NA)
: Why is everyone so soft?
The mute button, while people should use it when need be, is meant to be a band-aid solution at most and not a get out of jail free card. That aside the sensitivity argument I've found is often use by those who don't like being held accountable for their behavior and would rather everyone else deal with it rather than changing their own poor behavior. As for smack talking, even in pro sports it has limits, and if you cross that line such as with racial slurs, death threats and continuous toxicity then you can expect to be punished since "it's smack talk" is not a catch-all excuse. Why? Because at that point you're not trash talking, but talking like trash. From [Riot Tantram]( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3zQ7hXi0-a-cautionary-tale-unjust-suspension-by-the-automated-disciplinary-system?comment=000400050000): >People might be used to feeling powerful behind a computer monitor where people don't know who they are, but that's not how we look at things. >if you were playing a game of basketball, and told someone to go kill themselves because you were frustrated about losing, you'd be penalized. Would you be punched in the face for telling someone at the bar to go kill themselves? Probably. >It's not 'PC'. It doesn't take 'testicles' to hide behind a monitor and tell someone to kill themselves or call them a racial slur. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite. From [Ulanopo’s Knowledge Base](http://(http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=1#post43465401)): >**People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.”** >Let’s start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)): >**_Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?_** _Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player._ >Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules. >With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as ”Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair. >There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS. >This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this. Bottom line: Times are changing, and more and more people are deciding that poor behavior online is not acceptable & are cracking down on it, arguably more so than in the early days of online gaming. You can either accept that and adjust your behavior or you can act like everyone else is to blame and suffer the consequences for it. To quote [Jo0o](http://(https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Q7iqrNEE-why-does-riot-punish-toxic-behaviour?comment=0000000000000000)): > If I’m supposed to ignore what you say to me, why are you talking to me in the first place? That means your chat use is either spam or a temper tantrum, neither of which should be acceptable.
Rαy (EUW)
: "So sad... you are not authorized."
That message appears from time to time, usually when you're doing things too fast. Just wait a minute or two and things will be fine. As for the other issue have you tried logging out and back in?
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FAhjx7dJ,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T05:08:41.903+0000) > > Accounts are entirely free, the only thing people buy is skins, or champs if they choose not to unlock them through play. > This just is a problem of inequality of income though, certain races might be segregated ect Thats a dumb way of lookings at it. People obviously need to by exp boosts and rebuy the champions they lost due to account bans. Accounts aren't really free in that sense. League is a game not a right, I personally would pay to just to make the game better even if that meant some people couldn't play. I actually think people with money should be able to buy perks like being able to boot people from champselect if they are trolling. Or be able to play in solo q with three instead of 2. The most reasonable step would be players being fined for "bad behavior".
> [{quoted}](name=excelsheet1,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FAhjx7dJ,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T16:40:26.660+0000) > > Thats a dumb way of lookings at it. People obviously need to by exp boosts and rebuy the champions they lost due to account bans. Accounts aren't really free in that sense. League is a game not a right, I personally would pay to just to make the game better even if that meant some people couldn't play. Everything in the game needed for any sort of competitive play can be bought naturally with in-game currency (BE) or even just gotten through Hextech Crafting. Buying things like RP and XP boosts is entirely optional, and no one actually needs to buy them to level up or get certain champs. >I actually think people with money should be able to buy perks like being able to boot people from champselect if they are trolling. We both know that would be heavily abused by trolls who would just kick people they don't like for any reason, such as banning x champ or picking y summoner spell. >Or be able to play in solo q with three instead of 2. At that point you might as well just add a trio queue instead so everyone can do it. >The most reasonable step would be players being fined for "bad behavior". And how exactly would you go about implementing this, and would this straight-up replace perma-bans for the ones who truly don't care about anyone but themselves?
: I've been saying this for a while. Perma bans do absolutely nothing. Toxic players will simply just make a new account, be toxic again, get banned permanetly, repeat. If you have infinitely stacking punishment on their main account, they have time to actually reflect on what they've done. Instead of the mind set of "I'll just make a new one and make peoples lives hell." You run into the problem of people no longer caring about being banned. Heck you can go all over the boards and find many people who have 5+ accounts. Perma bans clearly aren't working. {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
> [{quoted}](name=WoollyWitch,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FAhjx7dJ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-24T13:26:41.886+0000) > > I've been saying this for a while. Perma bans do absolutely nothing. Toxic players will simply just make a new account, be toxic again, get banned permanetly, repeat. If you have infinitely stacking punishment on their main account, they have time to actually reflect on what they've done. Instead of the mind set of "I'll just make a new one and make peoples lives hell." You run into the problem of people no longer caring about being banned. > > Heck you can go all over the boards and find many people who have 5+ accounts. Perma bans clearly aren't working. > > {{sticker:sg-zephyr}} If perma-chat restrictions truly did help people reform then they'd still be here today. The fact that they're not shows that they didn't, hence the current system. Riot doesn't want people to simply switch up how they harass people, they just want them to stop harassing people period. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > It really breaks down into two categories. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely. > > We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it. > > We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling. > > The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS. > > So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat? Yes permabans don't work for every single player, but the same could be said for any sort of punishment in general, including perma-chat restrictions, as people could still make new accounts whenever they got any sort of punishment. The nature of LoL being an F2P game means that there's nothing Riot can do to stop people from making new accounts. Does that mean Riot should stop doing what they can to encourage toxic players to leave?
Fourth Shot (EUNE)
: yea if u keep flaming then yes u should get permaban but typing kys to someone who fcking inted cuz he got trolled last game and getting perma for that ...idk man the flame is part of the game too .my friend lost 300 euros cuz he typed kys twice.first he got a 14 day then a perma.yes he shouldnt say that but its still too much.1 year ban at least cuz man losing all that money hurts let alone 2000 and more.i personally dc about flame feeders and shit like that .the only thing that tilts me are afk on promos.i just want lp loss reduction when u get an afk .also at least u can skip once in ur promos before counting as a loss
> [{quoted}](name=Fourth Shot,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W2Bt0WP7,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-11-24T12:42:24.376+0000) > > yea if u keep flaming then yes u should get permaban but typing kys to someone who fcking inted cuz he got trolled last game and getting perma for that ...idk man the flame is part of the game too .my friend lost 300 euros cuz he typed kys twice.first he got a 14 day then a perma.yes he shouldnt say that but its still too much.1 year ban at least cuz man losing all that money hurts let alone 2000 and more. There was actually a case irl where a woman kept telling her boyfriend through text messages to kill himself. He did and she got arrested and charged with his murder. A permanent ban for it is perfectly reasonable as not only do you never know who might read that and take it seriously but you also shouldn't need a warning to know it's uncalled for. In your friends case he should've known how serious Riot takes "kys" after the 14-day ban, and the fact that he didn't, said it again and got permaed is all on him. Also, flame is not part of the game, at least not a part that the overall community considers acceptable since when you're flaming you're not playing the game, which is arguably just as bad if not worse than an afk since their attention is focused on harassing others. >i personally dc about flame feeders and shit like that .the only thing that tilts me are afk on promos.i just want lp loss reduction when u get an afk .also at least u can skip once in ur promos before counting as a loss This has been suggested before and it's not gonna happen because that'd just be open to abuse and people could just bully someone they don't like into afking to avoid losing LP. For example, if I don't like my lane matchup I could try to get you to afk so I could avoid losing LP. Doesn't seem fair does it?
: ranked rewards going hand in hand with behaviour?
Being competitive and wanting to win are no excuses for poor behavior, and those who develop a reputation for poor behavior (such as Dardoch in pro LoL) find it more difficult to find teams to play for compared to those who don't. Also, ranked rewards have always been tied to behavior, and people who consistently behave poorly near end of the season have always lost access to them. The only thing that's changed is just that with the revamped honor system it was made so that Honor 2 is the minimum requirement to get them.
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Prandine

Level 58 (NA)
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