Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=0001000000000018,timestamp=2018-09-08T07:19:56.993+0000) > > I feel like this is an ignorant question but what 'extreme barriers' are you talking about for example. > > I don't really know the situation overseas but I'd argue that every person has the same chances, no? Not an ignorant question at all! There are many times where females or non-binary people are discriminated against because people can't believe they can do a job well (even when thats totally not the case). Also in the work place, loud alpha type (high volume, action type) personalities tend to be valued more. Women in particular tend not to have those types of personalities, and subsequently get overlooked for promotions etc. Keep in mind, these examples are off the top of my head, but a quick google search will reveal mountains of data and articles on the subject. Thats a much better resource than the two examples that I can think of off the top of my head :)
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=00010000000000180000,timestamp=2018-09-08T17:54:13.835+0000) > > Not an ignorant question at all! There are many times where females or non-binary people are discriminated against because people can't believe they can do a job well (even when thats totally not the case). Also in the work place, loud alpha type (high volume, action type) personalities tend to be valued more. Women in particular tend not to have those types of personalities, and subsequently get overlooked for promotions etc. > > Keep in mind, these examples are off the top of my head, but a quick google search will reveal mountains of data and articles on the subject. Thats a much better resource than the two examples that I can think of off the top of my head :) This is what James Damore said in his paper investigating disparities between men and women in tech broadly, and at Google specifically. And he was fired over it, with people saying that it was sexist, when it clearly wasn't. Men and women aren't exactly the same, though there are more overlapping similarities than there are differences.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Presence Is Key,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=0001000000000005000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T22:52:21.212+0000) > > Don't go this far. You're right, but you can be right without escalating the rhetoric to that level. > > DZK is an immature and selfish person with no self-control who is nice to the people who agree with him and passionate about his world view. > > Reminder, there is nothing virtuous about being passionate. Having passion doesn't mean that something is good or right. DZK is passionate about a world view based in power hierarchies and class struggles, believing that in order to have a fair world we need to implement *Harrison Bergeron* handicaps for people. He's wrong, most Rioters appear to believe the same things he does, but have enough self-control to not openly insult and deride everyone who doesn't believe exactly what they believe. They are still apparently willing to insult us when they think we won't hear about it - all of this should be clear from the leaked Slack conversation. There were only a handful of people in that leaked conversation. Hardly "Most rioters appear to believe the same thing he does".
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=00010000000000050000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T23:59:41.105+0000) > > There were only a handful of people in that leaked conversation. Hardly "Most rioters appear to believe the same thing he does". And to that point I'll point you to my original post - saying that I saw the Twitter accounts of 68 current and 4 former Rioters. 72 total. 41 of which liked/retweeted Klein's thread, threads saying that Klein's was great, or made their own that spoke in the same vein as Klein's. 1 was ambiguous, liking a tweet saying Riot made a dumb decision with the event and another that supported the event. The rest were all silent on the issue, and more than half of those remaining were inactive for at least a few months. I think it's fair to say from that random sample that a majority are in favor of excluding men and agree with Klein's opinions, even though many also believe Klein's attacks were bad for business - based on the slack screenshots and the fact that he was silently fired. That's likely why there was no apology from Riot for the behavior of employees toward their players, but instead a statement reaffirming the event and supporting Rioters who were arguing in favor of it.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=00010000000000050000,timestamp=2018-09-07T21:23:59.056+0000) > > Grow up. You're acting like you've never done anything out of anger. This is the _internet._ He was angry, he said stupid shit. That doesn't instantly make him the most horrible person on earth. It just makes him someone who's done something extremely stupid when angry. We've all been there, so stop acting like you've been so desperately offended here. Hitler was a very angry person that did some really bad and stupid shit, but its okay because he was just angry and made a mistake, he wasn't that bad of a guy right? No, sorry, that excuse doesn't work, especially on the internet. Being angry does not exempt you from taking responsibility for your actions, it doesn't mean he should instantly be forgiven for what he did. Was DZK as bad as Hitler? No. But if both were fueled by rage and did horrible things and said horrible things both have to take responsibility. Hitler paid for his crimes with his life, DZK paid for his with his job. Should we forgive Hitler? No Should we forgive DZK? No the only difference is Hitler doesn't have a chance to Ask for forgiveness and make amends, DZK does but that road will be very long, very painful and very hard to walk. Once trust is lost it's extremely hard to get back.
> [{quoted}](name=Annie x Zoe Main,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=000100000000000500000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T21:56:12.108+0000) > > Hitler was a very angry person that did some really bad and stupid shit, but its okay because he was just angry and made a mistake, he wasn't that bad of a guy right? > > No, sorry, that excuse doesn't work, especially on the internet. Being angry does not exempt you from taking responsibility for your actions, it doesn't mean he should instantly be forgiven for what he did. Was DZK as bad as Hitler? No. But if both were fueled by rage and did horrible things and said horrible things both have to take responsibility. Hitler paid for his crimes with his life, DZK paid for his with his job. > > Should we forgive Hitler? No > Should we forgive DZK? No > > the only difference is Hitler doesn't have a chance to Ask for forgiveness and make amends, DZK does but that road will be very long, very painful and very hard to walk. Once trust is lost it's extremely hard to get back. Don't go this far. You're right, but you can be right without escalating the rhetoric to that level. DZK is an immature and selfish person with no self-control who is nice to the people who agree with him and passionate about his world view. Reminder, there is nothing virtuous about being passionate. Having passion doesn't mean that something is good or right. DZK is passionate about a world view based in power hierarchies and class struggles, believing that in order to have a fair world we need to implement *Harrison Bergeron* handicaps for people. He's wrong, most Rioters appear to believe the same things he does, but have enough self-control to not openly insult and deride everyone who doesn't believe exactly what they believe. They are still apparently willing to insult us when they think we won't hear about it - all of this should be clear from the leaked Slack conversation.
: PSA that Riot supports the Suicide of it's Male Playerbase
Funny how they think that men, white men in particular, are walking around like privileged demigods yet that demographic has had the highest suicide rate by orders of magnitude in America for decades. And here's a Rioter who claims to be enlightened, a class above us unwashed masses, who is joking about how men should kill themselves. And a majority within Riot appears to agree with him.
: The majority of intelligent college educated millennials share his opinions so that's not exactly a shocker Ever think maybe you're the problem?
> [{quoted}](name=EROTIC RAID BOSS,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wviE0Hmf,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-09-04T21:00:21.075+0000) > > The majority of intelligent college educated millennials share his opinions so that's not exactly a shocker > > Ever think maybe you're the problem? I'm not the one who believes in treating people differently based on immutable characteristics, so no, I don't think that I'm the problem in this case.
: I don't believe that's the case, you're telling me that Kotaku can release an article about how much of a "bro culture" there is at Riot and then in under a month all the employees are suddenly 'reformed' into man hating feminists? I think the more likely case is that what we're hearing is a vocal minority of Rioters speaking out because they feel like they are being righteous in their virtue signalling. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of Rioters don't agree with the new direction but are afraid to speak out out of fear of losing their jobs.
> [{quoted}](name=Prosecutor Godot,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wviE0Hmf,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-09-04T18:33:34.409+0000) > > I don't believe that's the case, you're telling me that Kotaku can release an article about how much of a "bro culture" there is at Riot and then in under a month all the employees are suddenly 'reformed' into man hating feminists? > > I think the more likely case is that what we're hearing is a vocal minority of Rioters speaking out because they feel like they are being righteous in their virtue signalling. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of Rioters don't agree with the new direction but are afraid to speak out out of fear of losing their jobs. The Kotaku article described an environment similar to an unruly college fraternity - sexual harassment, immature joking, and a fierce protection of their in-group (self & company-described core gamers) - it did not show that they disagree with post-modernist ideas regarding class and power hierarchies. A majority (37 current + 4 former Rioters) of Rioter Twitter accounts that were observed indicated agreement with those ideas, while a minority (30 Rioter accounts composed of 17 inactive + 13 active) were totally silent, and 1 account observed possibly indicated disagreement with these ideas. 'Bro culture' and post-modernist ideas are not mutually exclusive, and the evidence we have indicates that the majority at Riot both engages in the 'bro culture' and holds post-modernist views. Riot is an LA based tech company, and I would argue that what we've seen shows it is similar in thought and policy to other Californian tech companies - such as Google. Conservative and libertarian engineers at Google have said that they are put on blacklists by managers - a practice which multiple managers have admitted to. This piece provides evidence for my point, and it's clear from some of the language in the piece that the writer of this article is not a conservative herself, and a review of some of her other articles and statements on Twitter shows that she is likely left-wing in her political beliefs, so no worries about it being a piece biased in favor of my argument. https://nordic.businessinsider.com/conservative-google-employees-are-blacklisted-lawsuit-alleges-2018-1/
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