: Tahm is getting nerfed again....
Riot has proven now without a doubt that the only thing they care about is viewership for Worlds. Buffing champions unnecessarily, gutting terrible champs for no reason other than they want them to be a joke pick because they aren't _fun to watch_. Riot will not be getting another dollar from me
: Then ill keep playing him so riot has no choice but to ban me for trolling? Off meta pick is punishable apparently.
It's way more than "off meta." He was gutted on purpose.
Profirix (NA)
: More Tahm Kench nerfs on PBE
I guess all the TK mains have moved on...
: So what do I do against pyke + cait as tahm kench support?
Honest answer: Don't play him. Riot has no idea how to make him better so they keep gutting every aspect of his kit. Next patch is his E sustain "75% at all levels -> 30-100% levels 1-18." The champ is gone.
: He's not a frog tho.
I know that. But the memes are better.
Rioter Comments
: The void assassin roll strat is toxic
Don't worry, they are nerfing void pretty hard next patch. You will have to play all four of them to get the bonus, making it one of the worst synergies since only brawler synergizes easily with void now. You will be forced to get spatula items to get better synergies to work with it.
: Idk if this applies to more champs, but Aurelion Sol's attack move is very unresponsive
He has always been relatively clunky on his auto attacks but with the changes to his W it is a lot more noticeable since you have less wave clear early.
BigFBear (EUW)
: Who else enjoys "League of 15 Champs" as much as me this season?
I will say that games are just not as fun to watch anymore. Everyone picks the same champions and they do the same exact things...mobility over everything else, high burst damage, tanky/cc jungler... This meta is trash.
: How can you escape his combo when a dash/blink mid lane if his W is a hitscan skillshot?
W isn't hit-scan. If you leave the AoE before the channel time ends you dodge the ability. It didn't used to be that way but Riot rightfully made it so there was counterplay.
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEHV2PUP,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-09-03T19:10:57.987+0000) > > Any champion who can reliably poke early with very little cost (mana-wise) is going to be a problem. Kai'sa has less issue with the poke because it costs a bit more (though this is mitigated by Tear of the Goddess). Ezreal's poke is not inherently reliable. On the contrary, its skill-shot nature makes it inherently un-reliable. What's good is that it's spammable and even then, it's not a guaranteed hit. Ezreal's strength comes from his safety and the fact that ADC itemization doesn't affect him. If you make true late game ADCs more rewarding and worthy of the resource investment, that would be an actual balancing action.
Each individual poke may not be reliable (debatable based on player skill), but he can fire one off every couple of seconds. You can dodge as many skillshots as you want but eventually you will hit someone.
: Ok but can we please for the love of god stop asking for nerfs? Strong champσ are merely pointers to the poor way in which riot is handling their more obsolete champs. Ezreal's playstyle is always going to make him good. You either nerf his numbers to the point he is trash and depressing to play, or you remove his strong mechanics and turn him into every other worse ADC. Just find new ways for worse champs to compete with the better ones and tweak their power budget accordingly.
Any champion who can reliably poke early with very little cost (mana-wise) is going to be a problem. Kai'sa has less issue with the poke because it costs a bit more (though this is mitigated by Tear of the Goddess).
: have u ever seen a 6k 200mr cho got **oneshot **by an eve? u havent. otherwise u wont ask such a dumb question.
That seems to be the trend these days: tanks can build all the resistances in the world and they still get wiped by burst. It has reached such ridiculous levels now that playing tanks is more or less not a viable option.
: Why is Cho'gath W still a long silence
Because he is designed to be a champion that is hard to land the skillshots but follows up into a powerful combo. Most champions today can escape his combo with dashes or blinks.
: A Sol’s early game was destroyed in order to make him another late game scaling champ. Riot also hates roamers pre-6, so they hurt his wave clear and roam potential to force him to stay in lane. Late game he definitely does his damage faster, but to scale up there is quite painful.
See, I don't get that...how can he be a better late game scaling champ when they killed his passive scaling, nerfed his W damage, and didnt touch his ultimate? How is his improved E gank potential going to affect the late game at all? You know? Teamfights
Dynikus (NA)
: I keep seeing the same arguments repeated over and over with his rework. - bad wave clear - worse roaming - completely different play style And I'm just confused what you're all talking about, and can only assume that you haven't really been playing a sol right from the get go. How do you have no wave clear? Are you not positioning so your w hits every minion? How are your roams worse when you can literally e to either side lane from mid, or from base to either lane? Then with more burst damage and movespeed, and not getting completely cucked by the slightest cc, how are your ganks worse in any way? How is his main identity changed (roaming mage, not dps mage) at all? You still play him in mostly the same way, shove wave, roam, rinse and repeat. You still need to star dance, you still need to time your roams, aim your q properly, etc etc The main difference I've found is build path, as a more damage oriented build works better. Which frankly, given a sol's atrocious scaling, is overall better for him than his old core build. The only conclusion I can come up with is the people complaining about it never really roamed correctly. Which given the elo most of the complaints I've seen come from, doesn't surprise me. It's a complicated playstyle, and there's a reason a sol one tricks are on average one of the highest elo players.
At least it seems Riot is acknowledging they left him a little weak and are planning to buff him next patch.
: You can still go Rod+Rylai, stop being ridiculous. The speed increase in stars far outweigh the old toggle. My kite comment was the fact he can use the speed boost to reposition and then turn them back on. It’s 2 seconds CD. It’s almost always available. You can now lead with Stars, then stun when the stars retract (Rylai still slowing btw), and then expand your stars again while they’re stunned. WITHOUT any CDR.
Rod/Rylais takes too long to get going. Just go full damage and you make more of an impact that way, especially in today's meta.
: What? The Q CD gained 1 second in exchange for 3 less CD mid game, which is significant considering most ASol builds don’t get CDR (unless you actually think GLP is superior to Rylai, lmao), but that isn’t “extremely high” from what it was before. He kites better now, he has his great roam still (TF ult range at rank 1 btw, Pantheon can only wish) and still fulfills the DPS fantasy. He is no longer hard reliant on landing his Q to do damage and assassins are no longer are a free win against him. He’s gonna be too strong in 1-2 weeks time. Go complain about what they did to Kayle instead
He doesn't actually kite better since the movement speed was put at the END of his W. Building tanky is no longer optimal since you don't really need to survive for long periods of time anymore. You W to do damage, build Rylais if you must, and then lead into a stun. If you can't kill them before two or three cycles of W then you disengage. To be honest, the changes to Q really don't mean all that much. You rarely get more than a second stun off and anything more than that is just a lucky gimmick shot anyway. Personally I just went Spellbinder, Death Cap, Sorc Shoes, into Liandries. He is all about building AP now since you don't slow burn them down. They completely changed the way he works. Much better early game (probably overtuned and will see nerfs) and significantly worse late game (the opposite of Riot's intended changes with him). To clarify, he isn't bad, he was just turned into something that people really don't appreciate because it is a copy/paste archetype for burst mages with windows of opportunity and significant down time on a champion that requires 3 seconds of close proximity to apply most of his damage. His new role is bad and people aren't too happy about it. I also noticed while playing him that hit boxes seemed really off with his stars now and his auto attack wind up just felt off. I missed so much CS because I couldn't last hit with my auto since it took so damn long to fire.
duje (EUNE)
: Aurelion sol rework is so bad
He has way too much counter play now without any strengths. His W being on all the time allowed him to zone but what is the point now when it ends after 3 seconds? It isn't that his damage is bad. It is just that they completely changed his role now. He isn't a zoning mage anymore. He's a burst mage. We have plenty of those already.
: If he has to compete with burst mages as a burst mage then that's the problem right there. He's not a burst mage and shouldn't be a burst mage
That is what I am saying...they are giving him windows of damage instead of the slow and steady burn. It is just going to hurt him in the long run because he doesn't have the burst to compete. League right now doesn't favor long, drawn out fights anymore.
DUDE BRO (NA)
: Asol is all about positioning to have his balls (giggity) hitting as many champs as possible at all times. This removes that and just turns him into another typical burst mage. Stun, press W for ball burst, back off. It completely kills his unique identity and just makes him another "why play x champ when y is the same but better?"
The why play X champ argument is exactly what I felt when playing him on PBE. Hes just worse than every other burst-type mage out there and has higher risk.
: No Asol main wanted this..........
These changes are generally nerfs to his entire kit and playstyle. Longer roam cooldowns, less general mobility and lane pressure, significantly reduced up time on his main and almost only source of damage, nerfs to his base values with little to no compensation. He can't compete with the mid lane assassins or mages at all. What is the point of this champion? I get that they said in the patch notes: "We're making Aurelion Sol more vulnerable to counterplay in the early game so that we have room to buff his scaling and presence in the late game..." but they DIDN'T buff his late game at all. Are they planning to let him be 'meh' until they can come up with meaningful buffs? What is the point of this? No one is going to play him over someone even like Syndra. Higher damage, less risk, what is the point?
Stratixx (NA)
: Tahm Kench support winrate
Tahm Kench is probably never going to see buffs until his entire kit is reworked a few years down the road. Riot's balance team has no idea what to do with him so they decided to take him the old Evelynn/Olaf route and just gut him to the point of not being playable until they figure out what to do. He is an awful support champion with an awful win rate and has become so clunky to play now. Every time I see someone pick Tahm support I consider the game an auto-loss because it pretty much always is.
: Very unpopular opinion: Chine(Tencent) should step in and redo how Riot office works(at least in NA)
Tencent is probably the reason Riot is pushing these ridiculous cash grab schemes like Eternals and the copy-paste "events". No thanks.
: FAQ: Eternals
This is not the way to monetize your game. Do NOT fall into the mobile game trap. It will never be worth it because you are PAYING for things you EARN. This inherently means that you are expecting an outcome because you PAID for it. If you have to achieve and pay then there is no guarantee you get your money's worth.
: NERF VOID/ CHO GATH!!!!!!!!
Cho's damage took a massive nerf this upcoming patch. I doubt he will be much of a problem now, even with Void buff. Ability Damage: 250/500/750 ⇒ 175/350/525 That is a 150 damage nerf at level 2 (since basically no one ever succeeds in getting a level 3 Cho). Actually, with Brawlers taking that much of a hit, might be time to move on to other synergies. Wild/Shapeshifter/Dragon is still strong.
: I like Janna
I like Cho'Gath believe it or not. Works really well if your carry doesn't mind sharing kills :)
: He's still a good support, he has the CC and utility to help in team fights, and he can bully lanes pretty easy to keep the enemy ADC away from CS. But like any game, there's a balance. I wouldn't want to play TK Support versus a Brand unless my ADC is able contest their CS without me pushing lane. Playing TK support passively is pretty hard, so it does take away from his overall usefulness as support.
He becomes irrelevant mid to late game. Literally makes it 4v5. His damage is bad, his devour just puts him in harm's way, especially with all the gap close and dashes now. Just play a real champion. I promise you the outcome will be better.
: all of this because he's been used as a walking zhonya's in pro play
Maybe he is not the cause but a symptom of the damage meta?
PotPye (NA)
: Free my boy Tahm Kench :(
For those wondering: "Shield duration 3>>>2 sec, movement speed 345>>>335" They were not included in the PBE notes however yet.
: PATCH 9.16
Tahm: "Hey let's make one of the most immobile champions in the game have worse engage, disengage, and tankiness in fights. That's sure to fix him!"
: Am I missing something? Tahm Kench only converts 75% of his grey health into healing, at all ranks.
He converts ALL grey health now into health. But yes, it is only up to 75% of lost health.
: Upcoming 9.16 changes. Thoughts?
Can we NOT nerf Tahm Kench for like the MILLIONTH time? Jesus Christ the champion is barely playable as it is. Does the balance team ever try to actually figure out why he is picked as a support in the first place in pro play? It's because the burst meta is so insane that there needs to be a counter to getting one-shot in under 0.5 seconds. Unless he sits his ass on the one carry he needs to baby sit almost constantly he is virtually useless in most scenarios. HE. IS. NOT. A. GOOD. CHAMPION. And for Christ's sake he doesn't need nerfs. But I guess it is easier to destroy a single champion than rework the entire damage tier. If you are going to nerf him, go all the way. Make him unplayable. At least that way you will have to put him on the docket to rework completely. ...I am so done with this B.S.
: Who is the weakest supp champ right now?
Definitely {{champion:223}} . Can't poke if opponents play behind minions. Can't engage against other tanks, has no escape, significantly reduced tanking power, very low damage now that passive no longer applies to any abilities, almost impossible to stack passive unless you all-in and even then you can't stun and devour. About the only thing going for him now is the sustain buff to his E so he is slightly better against poke comps. Definitely needs a rework at this point as Riot has seen to demolishing his viability.
AIQ (NA)
: You're playing asol wrong buddy. Watch any expert asol player and see if 3 base e to lane is not a thing. It's to gave wave control and a health mana lead. Lol huhi did it.
Huhi would back and use the passive movespeed to get back to lane. Maybe every once in a while when he knew he wasn't going to be roaming any time soon.
: > [{quoted}](name=mc4life,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQP5AEQA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-02T13:30:06.847+0000) > > I suppose you havent played against him in laning phase yet? I have played him,I am a M7 Kench. His laning is good, but his usefulness afterwards is non-existant. You can barely CC people anymore.
Can confirm, it is almost impossible to CC any modern champions (with all of their dashes/escapes). I have to take hail of blades just to get close enough and you have to use the Q to get close anyway, so that is on cooldown for a bit until you can stun them. He has too much counter-play now. He has lost his charm and really isn't worth playing anymore. He is, without a doubt, a bad champion.
AIQ (NA)
: So, just an FYI level 3 is actually slower for the current sol and the new one is the same. His movement speed scales with level and I factored 6 to be generous. The extra 7000 distance I calculated is that return factor. Going anywhere under 8000 (half the map) units is faster with the new E going back is faster with current E by around 4 second (with movement speed always capped), but that falls off Level 14+. I understood what you meant, but I calculated the whole gank. No matter the time it took to perform a gank the distance to go there and return will always be those 2 numbers. New E is faster at getting there and old E is faster at getting back unless there are walls then new E is just faster. 29 current 33.5 New Hope that makes sense.
You are never going to want to use his E to get back to lane because it has such a ridiculous cooldown.
: So where did the teamfight tactic buttons go?
Yup, beta pass is over so they removed the rewards screen.
: You're only allowed to play one champion for the rest of your life.
{{champion:31}} I can never get enough of this guy.
TehNACHO (NA)
: You guys ever have that one champion that you're really good with
I used to be good with Shyvana, but any time I want to play her now no one picks any champions with any kind of CC. You are basically committing suicide if you pick her into a team comp with absolutely no CC. Today all anyone wants to play are the bursty assassins or mid lane mages. No one wants to pick CC.
Rioter Comments
: has anyone ever seen a gold tier 5 champion
I've gotten a level 3 Cho'Gath ONCE. I have never seen a t5 level 3.
: I'm fine with her early game as it is. The probem is she's designed with a bad early and hypercarry late but even her late game is pretty bad. Why pick kayle when any other hypercarry carries better then her late game atm? The problem isn't her early game its her late game. In my opinion that is.
I just don't think games these days last long enough for her to come "online."
Rioter Comments
: One Change for each Champion
{{champion:31}} Let this guy scale in size infinitely, but at a reduced rate after 10 stacks.
Leivve (NA)
: WTF did you do to get only 1 gold? minimum I've ever gotten was 3, but I typically get 5, which is a solid amount of gold.
First round you get a single gold from minons. I think its 2 gold from the rest in stage 1 if I recall.
: Removing passive from Tahm's Q was the worst idea.
The worst part is that they only nerfed him to get rid of him rather than try and fix him. I don't think Riot has any idea what to do with him so they just put him in the same position they put Evelyn and Olaf before they got their full reworks. It is bad design practice to do something like this to a champion. It also doesn't help that the average player doesn't give a flying f**k about it. All they want to do is see him dumpstered because they couldn't survive laning phase to completely obliterate him mid to late game.
Jamlance (NA)
: Nerfed too much
He will sit in trash tier until one day Riot decides to rework him. He was my main up until they decided to string nerf after nerf targeting his ability to support and I dropped him. Don't expect anything reasonable until he gets a rework. The champion creates too much angst when playing against him in a solo lane and had too much agency in pro play. Nothing but a complete and total VGU will get him the attention he needs or deserves. I just checked and his solo lane win rate dropped like a rock as expected. His support win rate got a slight bump, probably because of his passive regeneration in laning phase but his mid-late game win rate died with his ability to combo. Picking him now is making your team a 4v5 post 20 minutes.
: This was a patch to remove the problem that was tahm kench top. Next patch and the ensuing patches will slowly fix him for his intended role, support. We've seen Riot do this before.
They gave him the ability to eat buffs in the jungle. I bet you that is where they intend to stick him when they finally put power back into his kit... which would be fucking terrible because his kit was designed with a duo mentality.
: The "Critical Error" bug, like many other bugs this patch, has been happening on PBE
I played three games today and in all three of them we had at least one permanent disconnect that resulted in remakes. That was 3 remakes in a row. I'm putting this game aside until they fix whatever the heck they did this patch. It is unacceptable.
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Profirix

Level 123 (NA)
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