: Also why tf are there so many downvotes? There bots in the forums now? Yikes.
Bots are out of control.
: Preseason 10 made League way more boring.
I don't like being _forced_ to play a champion with an overloaded kit because it is one of the only ways to get an early advantage and keep it. Many of the older champions can't stand toe-to-toe with the newer ones. Once people figured out the dragon meta (basically just steamroll bot lane and/or invade enemy jungle with mid or top laner who is conveniently 2-3 levels ahead of bot and jungle pretty much the whole game and take dragons), you already know if the game is over about 15 minutes in. And this isn't hyperbole. I'm struggling to stay motivated to play League now because as a jungle/support player I feel like I'm stuck playing what is viable in the meta or I just get destroyed when paired with an equally skilled opponent because my role has been forced to suffer xp and gold nerfs for the sake of top and mid being way more powerful than bottom lane or the jungle. The jungler can no longer walk into a lane where a solo laner has stupidly pushed all the way up to my turret and gank them solo because I _will_ die.
: Support Income beyond T3 is worse for losing players
I definitely notice that if I am supporting on a losing team I am WAY behind what I used to be. Support gold after T3 comes from assists and the really poor gold generation passive. If your team is failing, you aren't getting assist gold and it puts you further and further behind a team that is killing your team left and right. Support items shouldn't punishing the losing support player so devastatingly badly. This NEEDS to be brought to attention. It is a major problem.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=LuthianDelphi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZsAnQy1v,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-01T04:10:48.196+0000) > > Literally tho, if enchanters or tank supports were even remotely decent right now. Or god forbid a zyra or brand had the mana regen to lane botlane? That champion wouldn't exist right now, it'd be on a grey screen for the next 15 minutes. Tank Supports are not weak. https://i.gyazo.com/d55443570ecd08521f942f1e708dfd8e.png https://i.gyazo.com/659e9e40b2fb7a4a0c6c508894139d8c.png https://i.gyazo.com/4311b3defbbd90bb7bc0169bebde7a58.png {{champion:53}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:111}} are the strongest supports you can play right now and have been for the majority of Season 9.   Enchanters are not weak either. {{champion:40}} - 53.40% win rate with a 7.3% play rate. {{champion:16}} - 52.58% win rate with a 5.5% pick rate. {{champion:267}} - 51.28% win rate with a 7.5% pick rate. {{champion:117}} - 50.54% win rate with a 6.5% pick rate. {{champion:37}} - 50.19% win rate with a 1.9% pick rate (rightfully so, she's too squishy for a meta dominated by Leo, Blitz and Naut) And Yuumi deserves to be trash.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZsAnQy1v,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-02T12:57:16.003+0000) > And Yuumi deserves to be trash. Anyone who argues that a champion deserves to be trash should re-evaluate their stance on League as a whole. No champion should ever be trash. Not {{champion:223}} and not {{champion:350}} . Not anyone for that matter. All champions should have strengths and weaknesses but on a whole should be viable picks for most League of Legends matches. With regards to the win rates of enchanter supports: games have been ending a lot sooner than they used to, allowing supports to maybe reach one or two full items before it ends. In extended games, supports are suffering heavily from the lost revenue due to the support passive and the loss of the gold generation passives. It was REALLY noticeable. If I was ahead I didn't really care, but it if I was behind I was suffering to be anything more than a ward bot (one that dies really easily). The new support items punish losing matches.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8ha6BAqE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-03T01:19:00.908+0000) > > Balancing Aurelion Sol around conqueror is a bad idea. They should balance conqueror instead and/or give ASol better options for keystones. He made an update shortly after saying. "ASol nerf removed" "Ryze nerf will be lighter" "Conqueror ranged nerfs"
I actually posted this before he made that announcement.
: Update: A. Sol nerfs have been removed from the patch preview: > [Digging in more, we see conqueror as too good on too many ranged users so we're adding a ranged focused nerf to the keystone. -Asol nerf removed -Ryze nerf will be softer](https://twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1201676538837553152?s=20)
woo common sense strikes again!
: So Yuumi is a dead champion now. His mana issues are just going to skyrocket even though they are terrible now. And his early power is being NUKED from orbit and being replaced with more late game power. In a game where matches are decided at 10 minutes.
I wouldn't get so dramatic. Yuumi is currently at the bottom of the barrel in terms of supports and if she ends up shipping out worse off after these changes they will make adjustments. Something needs to be done so she can't just poke safely. Giving her more utility and healing power at the expense of damage and higher mana costs is probably a better play. After this Yuumi can get caught in transition from target to target just a little bit easier. When she is strong, she is beyond abusive. When she is weak (as she is now) she is completely useless.
: Upcoming changes for 9.24
Balancing Aurelion Sol around conqueror is a bad idea. They should balance conqueror instead and/or give ASol better options for keystones.
: [Mark Yetter on Twitter:](https://twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1201641559931813888?s=20) > Asol riding that new conqueror into space (get it). Seriously though, conq play style is fun for him so we think letting him keep it is the better path.
God.... His kit is going to suffer so that you are forced to take conqueror...why do they balance this way?
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVuAgecb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-02T23:37:24.510+0000) > > I like it. She will have higher impact but significantly more risk. Someone also said she can no longer TP with allies, which I think is a bit too much to lose. She will have higher impact in teamfigthing/skirmishes while attach-swapping LESS. This is literally the opposite solution to the problem of her being noninteractive. I only have 1 charge on heal now but it heals more and gives an attack speed buff. Boy, guess who im going to afk on? yeah anyone who does well with attack speed, so most likely my ADC. There's less reason to jump around because the odds that I die are higher AND the rewards are lower because I can't spread my heal around (the purposes of having charges in teh first place) while also being punished for applying attack speed buff to a target who isn't going to use it fully.This AFK and forget mentality is only furthered by her W scaling being buffed. I'm literally just an AFK steroid on whoever is fed on my team. Makes her even more of a gimmick than she already was. And on top of all that, her lane phase got even worse lmao I might also add that with the right runes + chalice, the odds of me going oom are low in teamfights, so there's no reason to detach. The mana regen on passive being added back doesn't even offset the mana regen lost on spellthief. The shield has always been nice, but without instant attach, a lot of that power disappears.
It is a 0.2 second channel time and the only way you will successfully interrupt the channel is if you cast something like Soraka E that silences all the time.
: Aurelion-Sol nerfs
From what I've seen, Aurelion Sol is only a problem because Conqueror is a problem. His win rate shot up after the conqueror changes from pre-season. If they make it so Conq is no longer a viable option on ASol it will be fine. If they go further and nerf his kit, I doubt he will see any play at all again.
: Yuumi changes
I like it. She will have higher impact but significantly more risk. Someone also said she can no longer TP with allies, which I think is a bit too much to lose.
: Is senna too strong, underwhelming, or just right?
As a support I think she is fine. She doesn't get to scale with the crap income. As an ADC she is a menace. They need to find a way to balance her so she doesn't scale so hard.
: Preseason thoughts so far:
I'll be honest, none of my support games have lasted long enough for the income change to matter. I think this might change a teensy bit with the dragon nerfs and tower buffs but all in all games usually come out as a stomp. There are no more close games as the team with the greatest dragon control just seems to win the game every single time. I have no doubt though that if games lasted longer I would hate having to deal with the loss of income.
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5td3vMw,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-11-21T21:26:13.374+0000) > > It is already happening. In gold+ games the top laner makes a visit down to the enemy jungle every single time they push the wave in. If they find the jungler and the jungler can't escape, its free kills. A two/three level difference in League is the difference between having a chance to fight back through skill and just getting obliterated without a second thought. Don't understate. A single level difference alone confers a huge advantage. You won't be able to fight people one level over you unless they're something as weak as an assassin one level over your bruiser/tank. As blue Kayn I've gotten auto'd to death by smilarly leveled Caitlyns and stand no chance outleveled, and I'm supposed to counter their champ. XP leads are even more massive than item leads, and it's why junglers on the losing side fall behind in such a snowball that it's almost impossible to turn the game around unless their bot/top lane got massively fed on their own.
A single level is usually just due to item difference or champion abilities. Where I really notice the difference is two plus levels down where my armor and MR seems to count for nothing.
Hügö (EUW)
: Just wait until the laners realise it and permanently comes into your jungle to fuck you up.
It is already happening. In gold+ games the top laner makes a visit down to the enemy jungle every single time they push the wave in. If they find the jungler and the jungler can't escape, its free kills. A two/three level difference in League is the difference between having a chance to fight back through skill and just getting obliterated without a second thought.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Why? Whats wrong with it? What about the players who can ACTUALLY PLAY Aurelion now?
There are more people who gave up Aurelion Sol than picked him up due to Riot's attempt to allow Aurelion Sol to appeal to a broader audience and be picked up easier. I'm paraphrasing but essentially that was the mission statement. They failed at their goal and have just made him less popular than before. He doesn't strike players as a "majestic godly space dragon." He fails to live up to his persona in game.
: The rune is good because it forces your opponent to constantly adapt. Skilled players should be able to use Omni Stone efforts to keep their opponent off their guard. Saying every champion has a best keystone isn't right. There are different ways to play champions, even pros don't always do it right. I took Trist top a year before Korea did. There are lots of ways to play people just need to think for themselves for once and figure it out.
I would agree with you if the keystones were actually powerful enough to need to adapt to. Riot has been slowly chipping power out of almost every keystone (and in most cases rightly so). Omnistone isn't useful for the person who picks it because they can't predict what comes next. The keystone user should have a significant advantage over the enemy when they picked a keystone that works with their champion. Omnistone just doesn't offer this at any level.
EATARI (NA)
: This would be a MAJOR ASol buff. I love the guy, but he’s at a 52% winrate _overall_. If anything, he needs a nerf.
According to Lolalytics he has a 56% win rate but less than 1.25% pick rate. This means that the only people who are playing him are probably those who main him, so you would expect the win rate to be highly elevated due to the player bias. You can't trust the statistics for his win rate. But you are right about OP's proposed changes being a MAJOR buff. But he most definitely does not need a nerf. He's just not a fun champion and thus no one plays him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwhXnTMm,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T01:31:35.704+0000) > > shes really not, shes just a bad version of nocturne rn if you build her AA based, and if only one person can play the fucking champ, then they need a rework, the only way she's viable now a days is to go ap because of her ludicrous ap damage on E and ult I would say something to you but that would get me forum banned. Just know that the player playing the champion makes all the difference. A bronze player might think a champion is bad, but in high elo, played by a player who knows how to jungle, position, and use her ult, will find her to be quite good. I've only played 2 games of shyvana on this account, but I have a 100% winrate in diamond 1 + with a good score given the games were extended. She isn't bad. you can't just go in and face roll like tryn who has a undying ult. I know it won't go through your head that it's possibly not the champion but the players, but you know, I try.
It's been a while since I've played her but I had quite a bit of experience playing Shyvana. It isn't that she is necessarily bad, it is that in order to play her correctly you have to run at people in a meta where every other champion has dashes, cc, blinks, gap closers, etc. A champion like Shyvana who has none of that (except on her ultimate) and a mediocre movement speed buff tied to her W and who must keep bashing people over the head in order to succeed cannot reasonably compete. Don't get me wrong, because of her ability to run quickly with W she can dodge skillshots pretty darn well but it comes at a price of not applying your DPS and thus losing your movement speed buff early. And frankly, she just isn't that tanky; not for someone who has to sit on top of the enemy to be functional. If any part of her kit needs a rework the most, it is her passive. In no world is it ok for her to have such a bad passive that is completely team dependent. Sure, you can maybe sneak the first dragon in lower elos early but as you climb the ladder that gets harder and harder, all for a measly 5 mr/armor per dragon. Looking to pre-season it honestly looks like with dragons having a renewed focus that her chance of really doing well on the objective control is going to go out the window. A champions power budget is is normally correlated to whether or not their kit has some kind of potent CC. Shyvana has a single, short knockback on her ultimate, that's it. There is definitely room in her budget for something else to at least make her interesting as a bruiser.
: So which Legendary Permanant did everyone get?
Battle Academia Ezreal. Not too shabby.
Rioter Comments
: Be Victorious - 2019 Ranked Rewards
I appreciate the effort to reward gold+ players but this is not a champion I care about at all.
Sukishoo (NA)
: You still gain gold from attacking enemies or killing minions based on which one you have. You just lose 2 gold per 10 passive. So you're still getting gold.
You lose the 'targon' or 'spellthief' effect, not the passive gold gen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpVrE9tE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-23T23:24:24.913+0000) > > Shyvana in general needs an update for pre-season. Her AP build shouldn't be a more viable option than her intended bruiser build... > > That being said, her passive should never have been based around team objectives in the first place. The higher rank you become, the harder it is to impact your own passive because it starts to rely more and more on your team's ability to come together for objectives rather than your own individual skill. Her AP build is fine. You have to commit to it fully in order for it to do anything and it has major draw backs. It's one of the more balanced kits in that regard.
I never said there was anything wrong with her AP build, just that her bruiser build (the one her kit is actually built to exist as primarily) needs some serious work.
: Shyvanna's passive needs updating for PreSeason
Shyvana in general needs an update for pre-season. Her AP build shouldn't be a more viable option than her intended bruiser build... That being said, her passive should never have been based around team objectives in the first place. The higher rank you become, the harder it is to impact your own passive because it starts to rely more and more on your team's ability to come together for objectives rather than your own individual skill.
: > [{quoted}](name=Profirix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zVWxxBmY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-23T20:46:01.268+0000) > > It rotates randomly, but you can't get the same keystone in a row. Ah. Randomly. Ok, worse than useless.
When Riot released the concept of Inspiration keystones back during runes reforged, inspiration was supposed to offer 'indirect' ways of modifying champion power by 'rule bending'. Klepto, Glacial, and Unsealed have all offered that. Even unsealed, effectively allows you to use multiple summoners in a short period of time. Kaleoidostone offers nothing even remotely rule bending to advance champion power. It screws you over.
: how does it work? if you can hold on to a keystone for as long as you want, i'd imagine taking klepto in lane and switching to a combat keystone afterwards would be ok
It rotates randomly, but you can't get the same keystone in a row.
Rioter Comments
: lets talk about the kench
One of two things are going to happen: 1. He is going to stay the worst champion in the game until someone comes along and decides to COMPLETELY rework his kit (Aatrox level rework). 2. He is going to stay the worst champion in the game until Preseason, when Riot no longer cares about an anti-flashy-play champion and they put power back into his kit (which is still in shambles and honest to God needs a rework anyway lest players complain and complain about him again until he's nerfed again.) It is no secret that Riot did not want TK to be picked at all at Worlds. Fine. But what I cannot accept is that they are willing to make ANY champion unplayable for the sake of "entertaining gameplay."
: Wait. More diversity? I exactly recall mages bitching that there was too much, and they wanted their buildpaths to mirror assassins (aka streamlined), hence why the items got reworked.
The issue was around abuses with certain effects. There is a reason people coined the term "League of Stopwatch." Or why support items were nerfed following their use by mid lane mages.
: "We’re also looking for other small improvements we can make across the item system"
Your changes seem a bit heavy-handed to mages. I get that damage is too high right now but that is a per-champion issue and less of an item issue. Removing all that CDR from mage items makes it so mages scale far worse and can counter resist-stacking a lot worse. The solution is to give mage items more diversity and perhaps unique effects that aren't just "here's more damage".
Rioter Comments
: [QOTD] What Champion do you think is underated?
{{champion:31}} without a doubt. This champion has one of the strongest burst combos in the game and is balanced around the fact that he is slow and relies completely on skill to execute his pattern. Not to mention that he gets physically huge and provides a significant intimidation factor when he gets stacked. Riot generally tries to keep high damage and tankiness separate but I think they have really done a great job balancing his strong burst with the rest of his kit. The champion isn't considered OP because every meta going forward is going to rely on dashes/blinks to be the main flash point for League pro play. Anyone who has mobility can get away from Cho'Gath and prevent him from doing a full combo. So unless Riot does something to make tanks incredibly powerful he will be left alone and underrated.
: There is loss by destroying tahm. It's more epic that the person who tried risky stuff got away thanks to teamwork, coordination and strategy. If the enemy team is brain dead and doesn't know how to strategize around tahm that's not every tahm player's fault. It's like the pros are little babies whining to their parents about tahm. Keep it on the rift Riot not in the patch notes. I would love to see the interesting dynamics tahm brings to a game in worlds. Fuck me I guess
I was speaking primarily sarcastically about Riot's attitude towards that champion. It infuriates me to no end watching them demolish him for the sake of pro play without even trying to make him a 'healthier' champion.
Jikker (NA)
: Tahmmy's been dead for so long now that they are just beating on his rotting corpse. It's kinda hard to believe that he would still need nerfs...
He doesn't "need" nerfs; Riot just doesn't want him at Worlds, period.
: Ok first of all, stop using Downs as a way to insult people. It doesn't add anything to the discussion other than telling people you can't think of something original. Second of all, Annie's "buff" last patch lowered her winrate because her E's cd got gutted, making her recharge rate before teamfights terrible, and making her survive less burst from things like assassins mid. Finally, don't post things when you're on a loss streak in Ranked Solo or else you might appear to be much more badmouthed and angry than you really are. You clearly don't understand why Annie deserves those buffs. The Fiora buffs can be debated. Calling her "more broken" needs some reasoning though.
It's ok. He told me that I didn't have evidence to back up my claim in a post further up the list. We are clearly uninformed, especially since we refuse to insult the handicapped in our posts. His name is literally "TheTrollingMeme." There is a good chance he is just here to start drama and has no real idea what he is talking about.
: Shyvana...
Shyvana's bruiser build is too easily kited. The AP build is the way to go because it doesn't require you to sit on their face to do damage. I have always preferred the tanky/bruiser build for her and wish Riot would come up with a way to make it more viable (maybe make her passive not be team-dependent). I personally despise AP Shyvana because I just don't find it fun, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the build. I don't think it is too powerful and I don't think it lacks counterplay.
Savvyal (NA)
: So making riven's e cooldown shorter is a nerf? In what world?
I think it was a typo, they nerfed Q instead.
: Exactly. They have been fucking talm’s body with no mercy. Sooner or later talm is going to be the new Galio, and Aurelion Sol.
Galio and Aurelion Sol are workable. It is clear that Riot's sole intention with Kench is to make him disappear. Maybe they will rework him in the pre-season...unlikely but the fact of the matter is that no one plays Tahm Kench anymore except in pro play. Pro play makes Riot money and Tahm Kench slows the pace of the game down by averting risk. Riot can't have that. There is no great loss caused by stomping the champion into the ground.
AIQ (NA)
: They fixed Shyvanas W! Now, if only we could get them to fix Elder scaling and gain Fury while dead.
Now if they would just adjust her so that the bruiser build isn't more of a meme than the AP Shyvana build.
: Patch 9.19 notes
The Tahm Kench nerfs are completely unnecessary. Riot really just likes to beat a dead horse don't they? In general the other changes look ok. Karma changes seem a bit heavy-handed. Maybe return some of her support utility that was taken away.
: Tahm is getting nerfed again....
Riot has proven now without a doubt that the only thing they care about is viewership for Worlds. Buffing champions unnecessarily, gutting terrible champs for no reason other than they want them to be a joke pick because they aren't _fun to watch_. Riot will not be getting another dollar from me
: Then ill keep playing him so riot has no choice but to ban me for trolling? Off meta pick is punishable apparently.
It's way more than "off meta." He was gutted on purpose.
Profirix (NA)
: More Tahm Kench nerfs on PBE
I guess all the TK mains have moved on...
: So what do I do against pyke + cait as tahm kench support?
Honest answer: Don't play him. Riot has no idea how to make him better so they keep gutting every aspect of his kit. Next patch is his E sustain "75% at all levels -> 30-100% levels 1-18." The champ is gone.
: He's not a frog tho.
I know that. But the memes are better.
Rioter Comments
: The void assassin roll strat is toxic
Don't worry, they are nerfing void pretty hard next patch. You will have to play all four of them to get the bonus, making it one of the worst synergies since only brawler synergizes easily with void now. You will be forced to get spatula items to get better synergies to work with it.
: Idk if this applies to more champs, but Aurelion Sol's attack move is very unresponsive
He has always been relatively clunky on his auto attacks but with the changes to his W it is a lot more noticeable since you have less wave clear early.
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Profirix

Level 129 (NA)
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