: it should have its passive changed to grant base ad and tenacity instead of a slow and the shitty mini-static shiv, this would make it synergize with iceborn and steraks making a powerful tank
> [{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0x5h63dx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-08T17:57:00.465+0000) > > it should have its passive changed to grant base ad and tenacity instead of a slow and the shitty mini-static shiv, this would make it synergize with iceborn and steraks making a powerful tank This would make it so niche though. Right now you can build Deadman's even on stuff like Evelynn (vs full AD or a Kha etc.) and not feel like it's terrible for you. Maybe it's not optimal still but it's viable.
Rioter Comments
Jango Mage (EUNE)
: Glacial Augment should slow attack speed
only if it's a really small amount like 5% otherwise it becomes obnoxious
: what ever happened to the idea to make the damage on dead mans 100 stack proc scale with base ad?
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0x5h63dx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-08T17:38:21.190+0000) > > what ever happened to the idea to make the damage on dead mans 100 stack proc scale with base ad? I don't like that at all. It makes it much more champion specific rather than stylistic or game specific. Champions with low base AD, especially AP champions would just find it really unattractive even if they otherwise liked it. I think it's great they made it magic damage because even for ADs magic damage tends to hurt more and it's more viable if you're a magic damage dealer too. Plus before, it used to give a stack for Black Cleaver which again made it much more attractive to ADs.
: if one buffs makes him from useless champion to 53% (2/48) win rate, 4% (6/48) pick rate and 0.75% ban rate (11/48 on toplane) that means something is not ok And btw he is disgusting to play against now
> [{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yER8gL9a,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-08T17:17:39.254+0000) > > if one buffs makes him from useless champion to 53% (2/48) win rate, 4% (6/48) pick rate and 0.75% ban rate (11/48 on toplane) that means something is not ok > And btw he is disgusting to play against now There are plenty of champions with 53% winrates that don't get touched. Mundo's skill floor also isn't high so the bad Mundos don't really dra down the winrate. 0.75% ban rate is stupidly low and ban rate is often a very bad indicator that something is OP. Zed was banned a lot even when he was complete garbage. People aren't used to playing vs Mundo or adapting to him and that's a large part of the story. He spikes hard mid game and falls off as ADCs get their tank shred items and mids et Void + Liandry's etc. Mundo maybe SLIGHTLY too strong but he's hardly worth complaining about when he has so many weaknesses too and a large opportunity cost in the sense that he doesn't have a hue teamfight ultimate like Malphite or Kled. Mundo is 4th in top winrates right now and there are champions which are objectively stronger in the hands of a good player who aren't far behind. Kled is 0.4% before Mundo and has been around that 52.5% range for a long time. I don't see many complaints about Kled. It's like people think certain champs should be significantly above average and others should just be shit forever. Mundo's not even as basic as he seems. His skill cap is in the upper quartile because there are a lot of tiny nuances and optimizations to him. There was even one Mundo in Challenger last year and he had a great winrate.
: If plate offered cdr it would be my first armor item on a fighter that's for sure. You make good points. I play a lot of Nasus and when I need more armor that's probably the last item I even consider after ny core items. I almost always go into Zzrots/Banner, or Randuins for amor. It's stats could get beefed up a bit.
> [{quoted}](name=MadViking,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0x5h63dx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-08T17:10:10.463+0000) > > If plate offered cdr it would be my first armor item on a fighter that's for sure. > > You make good points. I play a lot of Nasus and when I need more armor that's probably the last item I even consider after ny core items. I almost always go into Zzrots/Banner, or Randuins for amor. > > It's stats could get beefed up a bit. They made the stats very similar specifically so you pick the item based on game situations or style and not raw stats. CDR is definitely missing on armor items compared to magic resistance items. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because armor items already have so many passives. Maybe they didn't want you to overcap CDR by accident? Now that we have Transcendence, that's not even much of an issue.
Chermorg (NA)
: A better way to phrase this would be "die to bait them" or similar - same exact message without any ambiguity.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WP7N9RU6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-07T22:03:00.925+0000) > > A better way to phrase this would be "die to bait them" or similar - same exact message without any ambiguity. he thought it was funny to phrase it that way still a stupid system it's not random phrases or keywords out of context that determine whether someone's toxic or not. someone saying "that was a retarded play" isn't ruining my game or day just because he used the evil R word. if he said "your brain must be missing because that's a brainless play" I am no more or less affected. targeting keywords and phrases is the epitome of stupidity. filtering them when you have the option enabled, sure. I can et behind that because it makes sense. however, using them as the basis of determining toxicity leads to such a pathetically bad system that I have nothing more to add except to say it's worse than none at all because it punishes innocent players just because context is missing. if someone said "that malphite ult was retarded good! wp" and I chose to report them, they'd probably get a chat restriction. this system is terrible and needs to be reformed - ideally with something like old tribunal where peers decided your fate and saw the full logs. that was at least fair for everyone even if not particularly efficient.
Rioter Comments
: "keeping it from getting stale" with ~140 champs and countless possible strategies? NO, just no. they're keeping it from getting balanced and that's what's making it stale. even now for most roles the meta is heavily constrained at top level and even for lower levels you have to work 2x as hard or be 2x as good to make a non-meta pick work out as well. let's say someone goes Trundle JG... easy effective, good scaling, good from behind, you go Ekko or Diana or some other shit like Fiddlesticks and Wukong. You're useless by comparison unless you pop off hard. They're useful all game and in all situations. if this game were truly balanced, it would be so much richer, more expressive, more interesting and more fun than any of the changes they can make to shake things up. and the meta would still change anyway but it would do so organically not because 4 more patches happened and now they want to make all your theorycrafted effort and builds useless again.. now yet again you have to find what you enjoy/if anything etc. it's like if someone took your girlfriend every few months and then gave you a random new girl with the same name. I don't mind the changes if they lead somewhere but I expect them to actually "finish" this game at some point and have balance after that. this game's most successful seasons and its height of popularity I think was probably S4 and they changed it far less during those times. it also felt like you were less dependent on the meta to carry and win. now even in mid MMR I have to go fairly meta picks or undiscovered but strong picks or I can't carry. and in general, being so team dependent creates a cancerous environment. no shit people rage when they feel that that they're so dependent on others for their own performance. give people the tools to hard carry any game if good enough and no one would bother berating their team. they'd realize that it's all up to them so it's just a waste of energy. now, you really need your team and even the best jg picks are team reliant. it's horrible and feels unfair but maybe it's because I wanted league to be a skill game more than a team game.
games don't even have a late game anymore. a few bad players = rift + baron = gg @25. it feels impossible for patient tiltproof play to be rewarded in a lot of these.
: That's kind of the point. They make biannual changes striving to improve the game as well as keeping it from getting stale. It's just the nature of a game that has patches.
"keeping it from getting stale" with ~140 champs and countless possible strategies? NO, just no. they're keeping it from getting balanced and that's what's making it stale. even now for most roles the meta is heavily constrained at top level and even for lower levels you have to work 2x as hard or be 2x as good to make a non-meta pick work out as well. let's say someone goes Trundle JG... easy effective, good scaling, good from behind, you go Ekko or Diana or some other shit like Fiddlesticks and Wukong. You're useless by comparison unless you pop off hard. They're useful all game and in all situations. if this game were truly balanced, it would be so much richer, more expressive, more interesting and more fun than any of the changes they can make to shake things up. and the meta would still change anyway but it would do so organically not because 4 more patches happened and now they want to make all your theorycrafted effort and builds useless again.. now yet again you have to find what you enjoy/if anything etc. it's like if someone took your girlfriend every few months and then gave you a random new girl with the same name. I don't mind the changes if they lead somewhere but I expect them to actually "finish" this game at some point and have balance after that. this game's most successful seasons and its height of popularity I think was probably S4 and they changed it far less during those times. it also felt like you were less dependent on the meta to carry and win. now even in mid MMR I have to go fairly meta picks or undiscovered but strong picks or I can't carry. and in general, being so team dependent creates a cancerous environment. no shit people rage when they feel that that they're so dependent on others for their own performance. give people the tools to hard carry any game if good enough and no one would bother berating their team. they'd realize that it's all up to them so it's just a waste of energy. now, you really need your team and even the best jg picks are team reliant. it's horrible and feels unfair but maybe it's because I wanted league to be a skill game more than a team game.
David627 (NA)
: As an adc player, I'm not looking forward to this patch at all. We've been through so many changes from the ardent censor nerf and it just started looking like we're on the right track. I will rush IE on any of the late game adc's like even twitch or jinx. I don't see any other way a adc can get a decent amount of damage while the top jungle and mid are 2 levels above us in mid game and with an IE or ER with no crit strikes. One thing I do like about this is that adc's will now only have to buy two crit items and IE to reach max crit chance, meaning that we will have 2 more item slots to keep us alive but the exceed 20 percent of crit chance in late game just doesn't seem right. The true damage on crit champs does look good, but without the time to getting a finished item, its not going to be very useful
right track for an ADC: I'm 1v9in the game after 2 items. OK and now you can still 1v9 even better but just need a little more gold to do it
: WHY WOULD YOU KILL LORDS REGARDS! THATS THE CORE ITEM ON ALL MY AD CARRIES ITS THE ONLY THING THAT LETS ME FIGHT TANKS THE CHANGES YOU MADE COULDVE EASILY BEEN IN MORTAL REMINDER WHY NOT JUST TWEAK THAT?!
òwò (NA)
: lol the bias, WW has been top winrate for months while being braindead easy
playing him well isn't that easy but I admit his skill floor is low he actually has a ton of outplay options in the hands of a good player he had a high winrate because players were bad (notice the NA 50% ban rate and KR 1.5% ban rate) not because he was overly strong. he wasn't being used in competitive and you can see the opinions from higher tier players or coaches like LS on WW. most were just thinking that the nerf was stupid because winrate does not determine a champion's strength in a vacuum. no shit if WW gets an early kill and fast tiamat he will snowball... this was in almost all my games and not once did I think "man WW sure is OP." I was just thinking, well turns out our top doesn't understand that JGs startin bot often gank at level 3 or around 3 minutes, especially JGs who can't clear raptors effectively... unlucky game to have someone that clueless
Xerous (NA)
: It is entirely a nerf to yas, higher item costs means that he will take longer to spike and with removal of cloak he will not have 100% crit until he has completed pd and ie, for a total of 6500 gold.
Yasuo's busted anyway right now, if you're good.
: Patch 8.11 Early Look
Don't have any training wheels period. That makes it so much harder to adapt. Please don't do something this stupid in a competitive game. Do they change the rules of chess mid game too because you screwed up? You guys need to eventually figure out what this game should be and stick to it instead of doing crap like this. It's not OK for a competitive game to change this much if you want it to have longevity and to be taken seriously. How many years do you need to understand how to make this game into what it should be and then just fine tune it? It's obvious it's not this year so when can we get a stable game? This changes more than alpha software and picks matter more than skill (especially as you actively remove skill elements from the game... making it even worse for anyone who took it seriously). Also, what about Corki? He has needed some help ever since the double Q and base AD nerf. I like the champion but he's dogshit right now. Even his late game isn't amazing considering he has no CC or anything else but damage and now you're telling me Fleet Footwork will be nerfed too?
: When I did placements on my alternate account (I'm Silver so I hesitate to call it a smurf), I had one game where our Master Yi said he was a Diamond smurf, went 23/2, and ended the game at 17 minutes. The next game I swear all 9 other players were bots, and I just steamrolled the whole thing on Tryndamere. A few average games after that I got dumpstered by a Katarina who showed me things I wasn't even aware were possible with the champion. So yeah, placements are all over the map, because the game has no idea where to put you.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Beefcake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wn5iEAXM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-07T19:39:57.806+0000) > > When I did placements on my alternate account (I'm Silver so I hesitate to call it a smurf), I had one game where our Master Yi said he was a Diamond smurf, went 23/2, and ended the game at 17 minutes. The next game I swear all 9 other players were bots, and I just steamrolled the whole thing on Tryndamere. A few average games after that I got dumpstered by a Katarina who showed me things I wasn't even aware were possible with the champion. > > So yeah, placements are all over the map, because the game has no idea where to put you. I'm a high gold mid lane player and got placed in Silver 4 on a new account just really unlucky games and people literally 4v5ing with me warning them I'm backing and telling them to back off even had a dc and went 4-6 in placements the next few games were equally decided by who got the worst player for example, I had a Jax go Rageblade with no JG item and while feeding... he did 4k damage the entire game... less than even the tank support some of these players in low MMR are so unbelievably bad that they ruin a climb even for a good player now it would take me another 30-50 games to reach my true level I made the mistake of picking Ziggs, a team dependent champ, if I were a Katarina main or something then maybe a lot of these problems disappear anyway, I sort of understand silvers talking about ELO hell now... it's not that you can't climb out but rather that you can get stuck for a while due to really awful players ruining your games and the funny thing is that some of these guys in silver do seem pretty competent while others are like "are you even human?" level... Some of these dudes would get executed by Scuttler if it were possible. in higher MMR it happens MUCH less and the games are way more fun. you still have people lose lanes or go 0/8 when camped etc. but it has some justification. you don't get 0/3 Jaxs rushing Rageblade with no JG item... that's in many ways worse because the gold he has actually is so wasted even if he weren't otherwise feeding. in terms of game influence, his 0/3 is like being 0/9 compared to a Jax that just goes Cinderhulk and Phage. anyway, I now have Silver 5 MMR on that account and it's just not even worth playing on because of the game quality. I'd only use it for champs I don't know how to play.
Banuvan (NA)
: Can you please get rid of autofill.
I actually wish autofill was mantatory for let's say 20% of games. That way people laning wouldn't be in such a bubble as to how JG works. People are now so clueless outside of their roles that they don't even understand the game anymore. Plus, it's way more of a test of skill to be forced to play every role at least 20%. I think it should just rotate an equal amount though in those 20% so someone can't just they're mad that all they got to autofill was top or support etc.
: we need a new item with these features : cost : 3000 gold 80 ap 20 % cdr 800 health : this bonus health is halfed when there is no ability in cd. unique passive : you receive 80 armor when hit by a basic attack. this bonus decay in 5 seconds
> [{quoted}](name=IS1a35739310e6470464399,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-05-07T18:40:22.157+0000) > > we need a new item with these features : > > cost : 3000 gold > 80 ap > 20 % cdr > 800 health : this bonus health is halfed when there is no ability in cd. > > unique passive : you receive 80 armor when hit by a basic attack. this bonus decay in 5 seconds If that's not sarcasm, that sounds OP as hell. There has to be an AP scaling for the defensive aspects to not be abused by tanks and bruisers. For example: cost : 3000 gold 80 ap 10 % cdr passive: convert half your AP to HP This is not a good item! I am just giving an example. This would be way too dumb on Vlad. In fact, I think Vlad is the one champion that makes it hardest to design such an item. I think the bruiser/tank separation isn't hard but Vlad is just so eager to abuse such items and he's already tanky as hell with disgusting sustain.
: A hybrid defensive item with offense? Tanks would build it, so it can't exist. Hybrid defensive items have already been a problem in the past, see Runic Bulwark, {{item:3512}} and {{item:3190}} . Generally, any item that gives armor AND MR has to be pretty weak or it's perma-built because it's so good. And there's no way you could make that good enough for a mage to build without it being broken on tanks.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-07T18:00:45.234+0000) > > A hybrid defensive item with offense? Tanks would build it, so it can't exist. Hybrid defensive items have already been a problem in the past, see Runic Bulwark, {{item:3512}} and {{item:3190}} . Generally, any item that gives armor AND MR has to be pretty weak or it's perma-built because it's so good. And there's no way you could make that good enough for a mage to build without it being broken on tanks. The MR and Armor shouldn't be the focus. It could be just 20 MR and 20 armor, sort of like buying both boots. The rest of the stats, passives etc. could be squarely geared towards APs. The whole point of it would be so you could otherwise go full damage without getting literally one shot as a diving AP. (having to pop Zhonya's before even doing the full combo). I guess I'm sort of looking for a "Bone Plating" in item form and not for tanks or bruisers. Its defense should scale with AP.
SirPurrr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-07T16:39:23.247+0000) > > Think of Diana. She's an AP diver, like irelia. Notice much difference between her Itemization and AP assassins? She has Nashors Tooth. That's it. Yeah, we get Nashor's Tooth and they get Titanic, Bork, Witt's End etc. All those items are so much better so that you can be viable while outputting damage. I'm not saying they're OP at all, just that it makes it possible to combine damage and some bulkiness in a way that is **synergistic**. Titanic gives a little defense and synergizes with tankiness, Witt's End does too, BC gives you penetration as well as tankiness, Bork gives sustain AND SCALES into the game.. Bork is probably not a great melee item but it still works better than Nashor's and gives you much more flexibility. If you're behind but you have Bork, you still have sustain, you still do % damage so you can actually itemize tanky after it etc. Nashor's is just useless when you don't have a lot of AP to go with it and if you have the ability to buy a lot of AP, you're probably ahead and would win with any reasonable items. Nashor's doesn't even help you in teamfights because all its damage is single target unless you're Kayle. Nashor's is very gold efficient but it lacks the same power from its passive and is too feast/famine. I'd buff the passive to 20 or if you really want it to be a good item, just make it give 200 HP and decrease the AS. Who actually wants Nashor's? Diana? Ekko? Teemo? Kayle?, weird Twisted Fates, Oriannas and Luxes? It's not a lot of users. The melees are too squishy with it a lot of time and want some bulkiness rather than more AS they can't use because they get kited. The rangeds don't mind the HP but would prefer the AS since they can kite and abuse those stats effectively. HP makes it more viable on melees while being power neutral or slightly negative for ranged. **Of course, if you really wanted the ideal super item for these champions, kind of like IE for ADCs, you'd combine LB and Nashor's somehow. Every Nashor's user also benefits a lot from LB.** AD bruisers can have tankiness, sustain, scaling damage etc. and AP ones just suck so hard by comparison if they haven't snowballed the shit out of the game. They are not on the same level as duelists. Who's the AP version of Fiora for example? Melee APs are super underwhelming in power later on. It's not because they don't have damage; its' because they can only build one way to be relevant for damage while the others can also get tanky doing it. TF offers some protection, Maw does too, so does BC and it helps the team, so does TH, RH has massive sustain and waveclear... so on. Meanwhile, melee APs without poke patterns to benefit from Liandry's/Rylai's are stuck on squishy glass cannon builds which barely even out DPS those bruiser top laners if at all. Does it matter if I go Ekko, Diana, Kassadin or whatever and do some more damage than Fiora or Jax if whenever I fight I actually die in one rotation of their kit anyway? If they had more damage, they'd just overkill me so what's the point of me taking all this risk playing such champions. I don't even outscale. Ekko falls off a cliff. Kassadin and Diana have 51% winrates at 40 minutes and they're considered "late game APs". What? Veigar's at 54% late game. That's a real late game champion. The APs who are actually good late game all have massive AoE whether ranged or melee. That's their advantage compared to stuff like Fiora and this tends to be true for all AP champions. Karthus is not so scary 1v1 but if your whole team clumps up on him, he probably can do more damage than any other champion barring Fiddlesticks. AP champs are better in clumped fights. However, if I have to die in order to try and output that AoE, it hardly seems worth it and people don't have to clump for me either. It's sort of asking them to be bad for me to be at the peak power for my game influence. The bruisers, since they don't have comparable AoE, tend to split push but if they do get ahead and can build some tankiness, that Irelia, Fiora etc. will just man mode your entire team and sustain/tank through it. They snowball just as hard if not harder than the AP melees and then they are great teamfighters too. Meanwhile, the APs are rarely good split pushers if they're building a classic damage build. I suppose Ekko can be a good split pusher but it's really only if he isn't facing a bruiser on comparable gold. I'm just thinking and typing. This is basically a glimpse into random thoughts that I got about this so take it with a grain of salt.
> [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-07T17:20:14.123+0000) > > Yeah, we get Nashor's Tooth and they get Titanic, Bork, Witt's End etc. All those items are so much better so that you can be viable while outputting damage. I'm not saying they're OP at all, just that it makes it possible to combine damage and some bulkiness in a way that is **synergistic**. Titanic gives a little defense and synergizes with tankiness, Witt's End does too, BC gives you penetration as well as tankiness, Bork gives sustain AND SCALES into the game.. Bork is probably not a great melee item but it still works better than Nashor's and gives you much more flexibility. If you're behind but you have Bork, you still have sustain, you still do % damage so you can actually itemize tanky after it etc. Nashor's is just useless when you don't have a lot of AP to go with it and if you have the ability to buy a lot of AP, you're probably ahead and would win with any reasonable items. Nashor's doesn't even help you in teamfights because all its damage is single target unless you're Kayle. > > Nashor's is very gold efficient but it lacks the same power from its passive and is too feast/famine. I'd buff the passive to 20 or if you really want it to be a good item, just make it give 200 HP and decrease the AS. Who actually wants Nashor's? Diana? Ekko? Teemo? Kayle?, weird Twisted Fates, Oriannas and Luxes? It's not a lot of users. The melees are too squishy with it a lot of time and want some bulkiness rather than more AS they can't use because they get kited. The rangeds don't mind the HP but would prefer the AS since they can kite and abuse those stats effectively. HP makes it more viable on melees while being power neutral or slightly negative for ranged. **Of course, if you really wanted the ideal super item for these champions, kind of like IE for ADCs, you'd combine LB and Nashor's somehow. Every Nashor's user also benefits a lot from LB.** > > AD bruisers can have tankiness, sustain, scaling damage etc. and AP ones just suck so hard by comparison if they haven't snowballed the shit out of the game. They are not on the same level as duelists. Who's the AP version of Fiora for example? Melee APs are super underwhelming in power later on. It's not because they don't have damage; its' because they can only build one way to be relevant for damage while the others can also get tanky doing it. TF offers some protection, Maw does too, so does BC and it helps the team, so does TH, RH has massive sustain and waveclear... so on. > > Meanwhile, melee APs without poke patterns to benefit from Liandry's/Rylai's are stuck on squishy glass cannon builds which barely even out DPS those bruiser top laners if at all. Does it matter if I go Ekko, Diana, Kassadin or whatever and do some more damage than Fiora or Jax if whenever I fight I actually die in one rotation of their kit anyway? If they had more damage, they'd just overkill me so what's the point of me taking all this risk playing such champions. I don't even outscale. Ekko falls off a cliff. Kassadin and Diana have 51% winrates at 40 minutes and they're considered "late game APs". What? Veigar's at 54% late game. That's a real late game champion. > > The APs who are actually good late game all have massive AoE whether ranged or melee. That's their advantage compared to stuff like Fiora and this tends to be true for all AP champions. Karthus is not so scary 1v1 but if your whole team clumps up on him, he probably can do more damage than any other champion barring Fiddlesticks. AP champs are better in clumped fights. However, if I have to die in order to try and output that AoE, it hardly seems worth it and people don't have to clump for me either. It's sort of asking them to be bad for me to be at the peak power for my game influence. The bruisers, since they don't have comparable AoE, tend to split push but if they do get ahead and can build some tankiness, that Irelia, Fiora etc. will just man mode your entire team and sustain/tank through it. They snowball just as hard if not harder than the AP melees and then they are great teamfighters too. Meanwhile, the APs are rarely good split pushers if they're building a classic damage build. I suppose Ekko can be a good split pusher but it's really only if he isn't facing a bruiser on comparable gold. > > I'm just thinking and typing. This is basically a glimpse into random thoughts that I got about this so take it with a grain of salt. Nashor's being so much of a scaling item is awkward and I'm not particularly impressed by its scaling anyway when it comes to melee users (not Teemo or Kayle). No one wants to save 20% CDR for late game at 35+ minutes and that's when Nashor's is actually strongest. CDR is more powerful the more chances you have to utilize it. If you delay it till very late, you've had massive opportunity cost relative to buying it early. It would be sort of like buying that fun sports car at 95 years old rather than 45. Combining high CDR with a scaling passive is anti-synergistic to the item's identity. Even now people buy it 1st or 2nd item. And really, unless you're ranged, that 15% AP per auto is not as impressive as it sounds on paper. If you have a lot of AP, it means you're squishy as hell so you definitely deserve all that damage at least. If you built bruiser or a bit tanky then that 15% AP is probably out of 250 AP and isn't anything special, especially since melees tend to get kited after 1-2 autos. One auto from a Bork champion with no other damage built would still do more than Nashor's late game in this situation.
: And what else are ekko and leblanc? I'm not opposed to such an item being useful for conventional mages such as xerath or orianna, but it'll make hard to catch champions frustrating to deal with.
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-05-07T17:36:18.815+0000) > > And what else are ekko and leblanc? > I'm not opposed to such an item being useful for conventional mages such as xerath or orianna, but it'll make hard to catch champions frustrating to deal with. Honestly, Ekko is whatever he wants to be. He can build several ways and be pretty flexible about it. He just doesn't scale well (sadly) and doesn't excel at one particular thing. He's a sort of sustained damage/disruption/assassin hybrid. He's very fun to play and I love him but he's hard to pin down. It becomes more about playstyle. If you go GB and LB, you even make a good split pusher if they don't have a fighter top. What I'm really looking for is a champion sort of like Ekko but who can also be a hypercarry. Kassadin keeps popping to mind but I find him pretty useless when not ahead. Everyone shoves me in and then if I am not big, they take their bot lane mid and we lose at least that turret off it. I don't even find his damage that high considering it's pretty surgical. Maybe I'm just bad at him or picking him in the wrong games.
: Rushing {{item:3001}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3047}} on Ekko is actually viable (and really bs knowing how tanky he gets while still having this dumbass burst)
> [{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-07T16:00:02.950+0000) > > Rushing {{item:3001}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3047}} on Ekko is actually viable (and really bs knowing how tanky he gets while still having this dumbass burst) It probably does work mid-game but you'd fall off a cliff late game with that imo. What would your full build look like for JG or Mid? I actually really don't like Ninja now on non-tanks. -10 armor is a lot and Ekko prefers the tenacity on Mercs anyway if he goes defensive. I get that you did it since you have no armor item but that's part of the issue. There's nothing like Abyssal for physical damage. Zhonya's is more for play making and has no HP. Protobelt, Abyssal, Zhonya's, Sorcs, LB, Rabadon's. What do we do? Giving up Void Staff makes us useless vs tanks and giving up LB makes us far worse vs squishies. If you trade Zhonya's for Void then you have no armor. **I guess what I'd want and what I'm looking for is a hybrid defensive item with some HP, 10% CDR or some AP and let's say 50 armor, 50 MR. That would allow me to scale well and buy the big ticket items like LB, Raba, Void without being so pathetically squishy that building damage actually ends up gimping my late game.**
Rioter Comments
: seasons 3 and 4 had decent mages but riot started scaling them back because players enjoyed playing squishy classes, which naturally, ranged poke champions do well against around season five mages had a sweet spot, but then everything got ruined with season 6's mastery update and due to reasons unrelated to league, I have been unable to play league since then mages were the counter to tanks because they could quickly poke down a tank's hp unless they built full magic resist or a large amount of it. This is why single damage type team compositions used to be completely unviable. Champions with the right builds or kits would steamroll that damage type
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XTt9w1Hv,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-07T01:20:06.394+0000) > > seasons 3 and 4 had decent mages but riot started scaling them back because players enjoyed playing squishy classes, which naturally, ranged poke champions do well against > > around season five mages had a sweet spot, but then everything got ruined with season 6's mastery update and due to reasons unrelated to league, I have been unable to play league since then > > mages were the counter to tanks because they could quickly poke down a tank's hp unless they built full magic resist or a large amount of it. This is why single damage type team compositions used to be completely unviable. Champions with the right builds or kits would steamroll that damage type Season 5 was probably my favorite time to play League and I can't remember why! :D I know for sure I hated the forced DQ in S6 though. I'm not sure when Tribunal was removed in favor of the context-free automatic bot where you can't even criticize someone straight inting into enemy turrets but that was a big setback for me too. I still enjoy the game though.
: I would just up the turret hp by 2x for inhib turrets, make them a real threat, they'll get destroyed in an extra 5-6 seconds tops, but that's still something.
> [{quoted}](name=Battalion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XTt9w1Hv,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-05-07T11:02:24.895+0000) > > I would just up the turret hp by 2x for inhib turrets, make them a real threat, they'll get destroyed in an extra 5-6 seconds tops, but that's still something. Yeah, it really doesn't feel rewarding or like a big deal to take those down. If we're pushing it, it's probably with Baron and a hopeless situation for them.
: Its weird, I really enjoy watching LoL pro scene so much, its enjoyable to see teams working together to win. But playing the game? absolute hell, if its not 70kill games in 20 mins, its an afk for 2 straight games. If its not an afk, its someone who is wanting to play a champ they completely suck at for the first time. Then to top it off Ill report, go back and see if they are banned or anything, nothing. But god for bid, if I call someone "dumb" after they go 0-8 in 5 mins and aren't listening to the team trying to honestly give them advice, I'm banned or chat restricted. Then if all else fails, maybe 5-8 times a week I'm getting bug splats or when im in champ select the ban button is greyed out and you get a dodge penalty (in promos mind you). Who ever developed the match making system, thoughts and prayers for you because its just...awful. Games not fun, period. I stick with it because the pro scene but more and more everyday its just a cancer to even load it. But man, when you get teams who, even if losing, are trying to win? Beautiful to see and fun to play no matter how long the game is. Hopefully some new games come long to steal some players so these guys will hopefully wake up but hey, who am I right
> [{quoted}](name=VaizBenji,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2018-05-06T20:47:48.942+0000) > > Its weird, I really enjoy watching LoL pro scene so much, its enjoyable to see teams working together to win. But playing the game? absolute hell, if its not 70kill games in 20 mins, its an afk for 2 straight games. If its not an afk, its someone who is wanting to play a champ they completely suck at for the first time. Then to top it off Ill report, go back and see if they are banned or anything, nothing. But god for bid, if I call someone "dumb" after they go 0-8 in 5 mins and aren't listening to the team trying to honestly give them advice, I'm banned or chat restricted. Then if all else fails, maybe 5-8 times a week I'm getting bug splats or when im in champ select the ban button is greyed out and you get a dodge penalty (in promos mind you). Who ever developed the match making system, thoughts and prayers for you because its just...awful. > > Games not fun, period. I stick with it because the pro scene but more and more everyday its just a cancer to even load it. But man, when you get teams who, even if losing, are trying to win? Beautiful to see and fun to play no matter how long the game is. > > Hopefully some new games come long to steal some players so these guys will hopefully wake up but hey, who am I right Honestly it gets SO much better in mid gold or so. The game became 2x as fun for me around that level. People are just serious enough for a lot of these issues to be reduced and there's more of an element of workin together.
Rioter Comments
: How can we buff turrets without splitpushing being shit?
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XTt9w1Hv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-06T15:55:42.858+0000) > > How can we buff turrets without splitpushing being shit? it doesn't have to be an insane buff and there are already options such as Demolisher or even Minion Dematerializer indirectly + Rift Herald is waaay stronger at takin turrets too and a good split pusher who won lane can easily solo it if he kites the attacks I'm just asking for them to be comparable strength to before this patch... they go down so much faster that snowballed games feel even worse and less winnable there's no "play for late game" anymore and this actually makes you way more dependent on the team too since if they lose hard, you just facerolled and smashed with everything taken almost right out of lane phase... this creates a toxic environment too because no one wants to feel at the mercy of the team just to have a chance to win a game
: Matches Still So Unbalanced
just as importantly, there isn't really a late game anymore so if you've got a bunch of apes, you can't really solo carry it by farming patiently
Rioter Comments
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Also, it's an indication to match that player with lower-skilled players, if they keep getting it consistently.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FNMgtJZZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-05T18:10:21.300+0000) > > Also, it's an indication to match that player with lower-skilled players, if they keep getting it consistently. No, it really shouldn't be. That's way too subjective. Either you win or lose, that's it. I don't want people padding their KDA while sitting in a corner so they can never die but also contribute nothing. And I don't want some flamer who probably doesn't even understand certain map pressure strategies hurting someone's MMR when split-pushing or invading etc.
: "Why do people get arrested for harrassment? Isn't that what restraining orders are for?"
> [{quoted}](name=Hethalean,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Rsg5OnAy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-05T20:20:46.640+0000) > > "Why do people get arrested for harrassment? Isn't that what restraining orders are for?" Not comparable. You can't just instantly mute someone in real life and restraining orders are for people who follow you around and harass you (usually not even with just words). You can mute someone in a game instantly and with no difficulty at all. They're also not coming to your house and you likely won't even play with them again in future games.
: Yeaaaaa, I tend to side against people posting their complaints about other players on the boards, but this ones fucked up. This guys been doing it for a lot of games and seems like he's not getting punished for it. Kinda questioning the ban system now...
> [{quoted}](name=Zallamance,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OAgH66LG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-05T03:35:46.649+0000) > > Yeaaaaa, I tend to side against people posting their complaints about other players on the boards, but this ones fucked up. This guys been doing it for a lot of games and seems like he's not getting punished for it. Kinda questioning the ban system now... And I bet if you call this guy a "troll" and a "pathetic idiot" or something similar, you'll get chat restricted when he reports you. Sounds like a fair system.
Rioter Comments
: Ekko JG Needs A Little Help
He's too weak early to make enough impact most games. Losing to nearly every countergank threat makes his options heavily restricted. If you want a farming jungler, there are also better ones at that like Shyvana, Yi. Ekko can go over walls and has a situational stun. These are nice things on a jungler but Jax also exists and he scales better while being tankier and not clearing worse. Jax has a more reliable AoE stun too. Ekko's a fun champion but he needs help to be competitive as a jungler. I think he has a great snowball kit though so he's probably not too bad in SQ because some games you'll just pop off and smash faces.
SirPurrr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2G0cA5WY,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-03-27T21:58:24.664+0000) > > I'm aware of the perception. What do you think are the things in the game that are resulting in this? You should also be aware of cognitive biases and group think. I'm not saying there isn't some truth to this perception - it is a team game after all. I wish I could solo carry every game if I were good enough but that would probably result in even more snowbally games and people feeling like they have no agency. After all, those on the losing side would never really recognize that the winning player carrying the team is just THAT much better than them/they had the same opportunity but failed to take it. Even the way this argument is phrased shows massive biases. "the worst player decides the game" What is usually the metric people refer to when they say this? KDA... and how does a player usually die? Usually by being worse than their laner or lacking comparable game knowledge (gank timings, good warding spots, deducing where the JG is from seeing where he's not) etc. It's not always so much that it's decided by the worst player as that it's on the reverse, decided by the best player. The enemy team with the fed Riven or whatever probably has a stronger top laner. I'm rambling but my point is that people see it as "X player is bad" not as "X's laner was much better". They sometimes blame the jungler for changing the lane but in reality, junglers are pretty useless if someone has excellent game knowledge. I've lost count of how many free wins I've had just playing WW, taking 2 buffs + one camp and ganking top successfully ~2:45. Even though it's SO predictable and nearly every WW does this because WW can't clear Raptors or Krugs for shit until he spends 1050g on Tiamat. I'm basically forced to be active after 3 camps and everyone should know it by this point yet they still don't and push up super aggressively just giving me free money. When the gank works, the other top laner (such as hash) says to himself "DAMN THOSE JUNGLERS RUINING MY LANE! My jungler is useless by comparison! gg top". He doesn't think, "wow, I'm awful to have fallen for this very obvious and predictable strategy based on the enemy jungler starting bot and having this sort of kit/power spiking at level 3 quite hard. I also have to factor in that my jungler is Sejuani and quite weak early but with good AoE clearing so she'll want to farm up more now and get ahead in Xp/Gold while the WW wastes time desperately trying to make a gank work. I just had to be passive until I saw WW. If both junglers are forced to just farm, Sejuani will be more useful for us." PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THIS! They don't see the whole picture and it's actually comical. I come from a poker background and it's well known that many even awful poker players are quick to see the mistakes of their opponents but very often blind to their own. A lot of the time they will be very results oriented and think a play was bad just because it didn't work out.... not understanding the math behind it and thinking the other guy must be an idiot because his cards were not good. Sometimes they are right and their opponents are making many mistakes but different from the other player. Thus, they both think that the other is bad and only after a large sample do they realize that the edge is not there. People see only a small chunk of reality ... the slice they can handle and not the entire pie. That's what the balance team is for - to see the whole pie and understand things in context. This inability to see the whole truth even when observing the same information is also why politics is so divisive. You see the same group thing for bans. Even weak champions become perma bans in some regions and basically are never banned in others. The stronger the region (such as KR for league), the closer they are to the reality of the balance situation. Or a champion gets nerfed into the ground and still has a high ban rate lingering from traumatized players. I think balance should be objective but people will get pissed off if what they perceive as OP isn't treated as such - no matter how wrong they actually are. Read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect. At some point, Riot needs to get that the vast majority of the community isn't capable of evaluating balance. Even winrates are quite misleading. Champions without crazy mechanical ceilings such as Lee (who you can totally fail on) will tend to have higher winrates despite not being OP. This is because the champion remains useful even when played by awful players. For example, if you play Amumu, you can suck but overall, you're never going to suck as much as an equally awful Lee. I really wish there would be no hand holding for lower ELOs and we could just have true balance. That would require Riot just stating that they are aiming for objective balance and X champion is balanced despite a 58% winrate in Silver etc. which is the consequence of how that champion interacts at those skill levels. Who cares if some champion has a stupidly high winrate in Silver, Gold or even Plat? If WE could actually believe that the champion is LEGITIMATELY balanced and that the whole game is actually extremely balanced, we wouldn't cry so much about it. The thing is though that Riot never just says "this champion is balanced but requires more adaptation at lower ELOs" etc. You guys say "this champion is balanced at high ELO but not balanced at low ELOs" This makes it seem like those things are equally worthy of fixing, have equal merit, matter the same etc. This is wrong and makes people think balance is all relative when it really shouldn't be. They think they have a right to complain when you take this stance and they EXPECT hand holding with the unreasonable expectation that a 120+ champ roster can be balanced well across every skill bracket simultaneously. In DoTA, people knew there were pubstomp champs but didn't think "oh these developers are shit because X hero has a 60% winrate in my ELO". They UNDERSTOOD, WE SUCK and THUS this champion is extremely strong at this ELO despite not objectively being overpowered. People take no responsibility in League. They expect Riot to always nerf everything into the ground towards some winrate as if that's the end-all be all of whether something's strong. The only time I think balance shouldn't be done based solely on the highest skill brackets is when a champion simply depends on a certain team situation that we can't match in SQ. For example, if a champion is good in 5s but absolute garbage when playing solo (even in Masters+), that champion probably needs some kit changes since even the best SQ players can't possibly reproduce that environment. BTW: I'd love a pure solo ladder at some point but I guess that might make queue times too long now. I think a lot of people play League to demonstrate mastery while having an audience (pee approval when on the same team, perhaps some rage to fuel ego from the enemy team etc.). They don't actually want a team game. They want something like the experience of a chess game with a group watching around you but part of the problem is that they also want to protect their fragile egos so they have trouble ever owning up to mistakes. Instead, the team aspect gives them a convenient cop out so that the ego never gets checked by reality. This is why players often have a warped view of Riot's balance. This is the downside of a player pool which doesn't actually function in reality. For 1v1 games you have to but for League you don't and yet people will still have strong opinions despite being clueless. It's human nature... just like the unsupported speculation about people in the media. Sometimes blaming the team is entirely justified though, just counterproductive, and it's not usually the biggest reason someone's not climbing. The last thing I want to state in this rambling response is that having objective balance give you CREDIBILITY and it means that despite the fury at the start, people would eventually respect the decision in 6 months. They would appreciate that the game has real depth and it's fair but punishing and that some things are just way more effective lower than higher vice versa. That's the way it should be. Right now, you guys don't have as much credibility as you should exactly because you're not aiming for objective balance. Games with consistently good balance and depth stand the test of time but they don't appeal to as large of an audience and will grow more slowly. League is at the stage where balance really matters to ensure longevity. That astronomical growth it had early isn't going to continue for a game of this size so cutting corners on objective balance will hurt it. People will take it less seriously and thus will have an easier time switching to other games which have more novelty. It won't command any respect to be good at league even among gamers. The more you try to fight this and do things to regain explosive growth at the expense of a high skill game, the faster its decline will accelerate once it starts. If League has near perfect objective balance (nearly impossible I know), then the hot new games will just fade eventually and people will come back to one of the only games they consider worthy of deeper time investment/commitment - especially as a team e-sport. Fun matters but after the fun, people have to think the game is worth investing time into - in the sense that the balance is good, that it has depth for mastery, that the skills they learn will continue to be useful in the future (too much change risks threatening this) etc. League isn't necessarily more fun than watching a good movie but plenty of people play League more than they watch movies because they value it as an activity... it's not purely about fun. The less confidence people have in balance or strategic depth, the less they will value it and thus the less commitment they will have to it. I also think objective balance is the only thing actually doable but it has to be a fairly hard line and it will piss off people before they come around and respect it long-term.
> [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2G0cA5WY,comment-id=001c0009,timestamp=2018-03-27T22:37:24.936+0000) > > You should also be aware of cognitive biases and group think. I'm not saying there isn't some truth to this perception - it is a team game after all. I wish I could solo carry every game if I were good enough but that would probably result in even more snowbally games and people feeling like they have no agency. After all, those on the losing side would never really recognize that the winning player carrying the team is just THAT much better than them/they had the same opportunity but failed to take it. Even the way this argument is phrased shows massive biases. "the worst player decides the game" What is usually the metric people refer to when they say this? KDA... and how does a player usually die? Usually by being worse than their laner or lacking comparable game knowledge (gank timings, good warding spots, deducing where the JG is from seeing where he's not) etc. It's not always so much that it's decided by the worst player as that it's on the reverse, decided by the best player. The enemy team with the fed Riven or whatever probably has a stronger top laner. I'm rambling but my point is that people see it as "X player is bad" not as "X's laner was much better". They sometimes blame the jungler for changing the lane but in reality, junglers are pretty useless if someone has excellent game knowledge. I've lost count of how many free wins I've had just playing WW, taking 2 buffs + one camp and ganking top successfully ~2:45. Even though it's SO predictable and nearly every WW does this because WW can't clear Raptors or Krugs for shit until he spends 1050g on Tiamat. I'm basically forced to be active after 3 camps and everyone should know it by this point yet they still don't and push up super aggressively just giving me free money. When the gank works, the other top laner (such as hash) says to himself "DAMN THOSE JUNGLERS RUINING MY LANE! My jungler is useless by comparison! gg top". He doesn't think, "wow, I'm awful to have fallen for this very obvious and predictable strategy based on the enemy jungler starting bot and having this sort of kit/power spiking at level 3 quite hard. I also have to factor in that my jungler is Sejuani and quite weak early but with good AoE clearing so she'll want to farm up more now and get ahead in Xp/Gold while the WW wastes time desperately trying to make a gank work. I just had to be passive until I saw WW. If both junglers are forced to just farm, Sejuani will be more useful for us." PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THIS! They don't see the whole picture and it's actually comical. > > I come from a poker background and it's well known that many even awful poker players are quick to see the mistakes of their opponents but very often blind to their own. A lot of the time they will be very results oriented and think a play was bad just because it didn't work out.... not understanding the math behind it and thinking the other guy must be an idiot because his cards were not good. Sometimes they are right and their opponents are making many mistakes but different from the other player. Thus, they both think that the other is bad and only after a large sample do they realize that the edge is not there. People see only a small chunk of reality ... the slice they can handle and not the entire pie. That's what the balance team is for - to see the whole pie and understand things in context. This inability to see the whole truth even when observing the same information is also why politics is so divisive. You see the same group thing for bans. Even weak champions become perma bans in some regions and basically are never banned in others. The stronger the region (such as KR for league), the closer they are to the reality of the balance situation. Or a champion gets nerfed into the ground and still has a high ban rate lingering from traumatized players. I think balance should be objective but people will get pissed off if what they perceive as OP isn't treated as such - no matter how wrong they actually are. Read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect. > > At some point, Riot needs to get that the vast majority of the community isn't capable of evaluating balance. Even winrates are quite misleading. Champions without crazy mechanical ceilings such as Lee (who you can totally fail on) will tend to have higher winrates despite not being OP. This is because the champion remains useful even when played by awful players. For example, if you play Amumu, you can suck but overall, you're never going to suck as much as an equally awful Lee. I really wish there would be no hand holding for lower ELOs and we could just have true balance. > Funnily enough, the anti-toxicity systems in the game have made people less inclined to trash talk or even have friendly banter. This leaves people feeling controlled and stifled even when they weren't being truly offensive but were rather just being playful. The older the person, the more silly this stuff will feel. It's like a huge billboard saying **"adults not welcome, fragile egos ahead"** In fact, a bit of trash talk shouldn't be an issue even if people are offended by it. It actually is HEALTHY because it means that you won't have a community full of narcissists with inflated egos. At this point even pointing out some mistakes respectfully risks getting a chat ban. It's ridiculous and it creates this huge bubble for players so no wonder they think balance is shit when they don't win or matchmaking is shit or their teams are shit. Without just a FREE chat (outside of the worst offenses), people become so insulated. So they think "wait a minute, I know I am pretty good but why is my rank low? something doesn't add up! must be x,y,z. Yeah, Riot's just a shit company." You do NOT want the mistake of creating a community full of narcissists who will now think they know better how to balance despite being Gold. Look at the amazing denial of reality and inability to cope with life happening in this culture now to see some of the symptoms. It's not healthy and it backfires on you because narcissists cannot actually deal with reality as it is so they will lie to themselves (fully believing the lie) if it protects them. League is the perfect game for narcissists because you can shit on kids when better but blame the team, the balance, the meta etc. when they lose. Strangely, the less toxicity there is (in terms of trash talk about someone's skill, not stuff like being called some racist word etc.), the worse the community will become because the bubble the players occupy will grow completely out of proportion to the point of being unable to interact on the same wavelength at all. What threatens the bubble will just make them angry and they'll lash out towards whatever seems like a good scapegoat.
: WTF are you talking about, his powerspike is Visage, Tabis, Warmogs. If you kite well and outstall, they cant kill you and you can keep the attention on your lane because they cant 1v1 push or pressure.
> [{quoted}](name=Primaquarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WaeNahZh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-25T17:38:35.769+0000) > > WTF are you talking about, his powerspike is Visage, Tabis, Warmogs. If you kite well and outstall, they cant kill you and you can keep the attention on your lane because they cant 1v1 push or pressure. He's really weak right now: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/DrMundo/ Sub 49% winrates everywhere despite only a 2% pick rate (meaning he's picked into better comps and by more mains). If you look at the winrate graph, you also see that it's flat nearly the entire game. No powerspike... nothing. He has a 48% winrate for the first 30 minutes (which is when most games are decided) and doesn't really show any particular high point. I've played Mundo a lot and you can play him too. You will find with more experience that he's just never worth picking at the moment. He used to have over twice the pick rate so I'm guessing a lot of Mundo players gave him up. BTW: The fact that they can't kill you if you don't go in to dive is not really that amazing. If you do dive them though, they absolutely can and kiting them too much just makes you useless since you're no longer frontlining for your backline.
Meddler (NA)
: Similar stuff to what we talked about a while back. Looking at having junglers be less healthy early on (more risk when ganking), somewhat slower leveling first clear or two (shouldn't be ahead of solos), item tweaks etc.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EEHXQ3kv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-23T16:15:00.741+0000) > > Similar stuff to what we talked about a while back. Looking at having junglers be less healthy early on (more risk when ganking), somewhat slower leveling first clear or two (shouldn't be ahead of solos), item tweaks etc. Mundo's not really viable anymore as either a jungler or a top. He hasn't been good top in a long time because he has relatively poor teamfight scaling while also not being a dominant laner. A Maokai is just about as tanky but provides so much more to the team. Sion is another example but has a great engage. Mundo's not doing enough more damage to really justify the pick over countless other tops. This meta is also more mobile than ever and so it's hard to function vs good players without a gap closer. I love Mundo's spammable Q and don't mind his kit but he needs more raw power to have it work. As a jungler, Mundo was a decent pick last season because he could clear fast and get tanky enough to secure map control/objectives early on. Now, it feels like Kha, Jax, Lee etc. all have an easier time destroying him early. His clears are far less safe. It's harder for Mundo to get the gold lead he needs to be tanky enough to have influence. He no longer powerspikes mid game to the degree he needs to merit picking. He was never great early or late (at least vs competent teams) but last season I was nearly unkillable after Ninja Cinder Warmog's and SV. I had until 35-40 minutes to be very strong and generally got gold leads from counterjungling/farming faster. Maybe it's the Cinderhulk nerf and the new runes too but he feels so much weaker even late game. My suggestion: +4 base armor early - his clear is less safe than ever before ^^^a big part of what made him viable last season was taking scaling armor + Armor Quints and being relatively tanky early on too I'm guessing that this isn't quite enough (especially if Ninja Tabi's get nerfed and Cut Down gets buffed) but it's a start and probably brings him to the edge of viability. I was going to suggest buffing his base MS but honestly, I think that 5 more MS along with the clear buff of 4 base armor might make him too strong. I'd have suggested 2 MS but I just don't see you guys work with numbers like 347.
Rioter Comments
: Don't Show Enemies I Have Hextech Flash
completely agreed it's a rune that works best for jungle but giving that much information for free is almost insulting your enemies since it's only good if they don't look
Even (NA)
: Ohmwrecker
it's not as bad as you think it only needs a very minor buff
: Tahm Kench "The River King" Gets Beaten Up By Red Buff
JG Kench is my favorite way to play him in normals. He is on par with other junglers at 6 because his ultimate is a nice ganking tool and he no longer has clear issues. Unfortunately, the game doesn't start at 6 so he's garbage.
: I think Harvest is supposed to be kind of like the jungler version of Grasp.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am5GYhjE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-16T03:40:13.118+0000) > > I think Harvest is supposed to be kind of like the jungler version of Grasp. completely different trees - it's really awkward for tank junglers to go Domination
GGLineaR (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=YourQQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am5GYhjE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T02:49:04.154+0000) > > The idea to give 10 HP for those taking Smite seems pretty solid to me. {{champion:31}} Do you really think that's a good idea?
> [{quoted}](name=GGLineaR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am5GYhjE,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-16T03:20:34.997+0000) > > {{champion:31}} Do you really think that's a good idea? Why would Cho benefit any more than other champions? 10% bonus health on ult. isn't really that amazing for the 150-200 you'd get from this late game. I think even in that case Aftershock would be vastly preferable.
: IP to Blue Essence: Have Riot Gone Too Far?
people are really blowing this out of proportion imo
YourQQ (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am5GYhjE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-16T02:31:18.655+0000) > > I wouldn't be opposed to it working off of large/epic monsters. I'm sure there's some detail I'm missing that makes the idea terrible, but it doesn't sound awful to me. > > Maybe tone down the health scaling when used on monsters? The downside to your idea might be that it pushes junglers too much towards farming. This is a question of numbers though and some junglers just excel at farming + counterjungling. The main thing is to make sure that it doesn't push normal junglers to take it and power farm. It also could again encourage taking smite top with something like Sion or Shyvanna (with a counterjg playstyle). That's not inherently a bad thing if doing this doesn't overpower other options. The idea to give 10 HP for those taking Smite seems pretty solid to me. I don't think the extra HP gain is enough to justify going smite top. If it's too strong on laners while being too weak on junglers, they could always tweak it to _**"completing a JG item quadrouples the permanent HP gain"**_ If you have to actually finish a JG item first, I'd be really surprised if top lane is an issue.
> [{quoted}](name=YourQQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am5GYhjE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T02:49:04.154+0000) > > The downside to your idea might be that it pushes junglers too much towards farming. This is a question of numbers though and some junglers just excel at farming + counterjungling. The main thing is to make sure that it doesn't push normal junglers to take it and power farm. It also could again encourage taking smite top with something like Sion or Shyvanna (with a counterjg playstyle). That's not inherently a bad thing if doing this doesn't overpower other options. > > The idea to give 10 HP for those taking Smite seems pretty solid to me. I don't think the extra HP gain is enough to justify going smite top. If it's too strong on laners while being too weak on junglers, they could always tweak it to _**"completing a JG item quadrouples the permanent HP gain"**_ If you have to actually finish a JG item first, I'd be really surprised if top lane is an issue. the main concern with this isn't top but rather snowballing if a Sejuani or whatever takes this and her team's ahead, she can try to fight anyone just to get more HP (running away every time) on the other hand, trying to randomly "get stacks" while ahead and potentially putting your team in a bad spot is generally not how you close games even if you get an extra 100 HP per game or whatever. normally, it's far better to get picks, get deep vision near Baron, etc. Sitting around and trying to auto people for some glorious late game fantasy rather than doing things which give objectives is likely to backfire more than it helps - even if it feels good. thus, the more I think about it, the less concerned about it I am as far as snowbaling goes.
: More choice isn't always better: why I dislike the new runes.
I don't think there are too many choices and in fact, I'd prefer the runes be a bit more generalized. The old raw stats approach had less direct impact but more theoretical options. It wasn't bad either. I think the worst part about it was just that too many runes were weak (scaling attack damage Quints lol). A lot of the current runes are viable only on a small number of champions or roles. It's true that there is sort of an "illusion" of choice in certain cases. For example, Grasp is good for top lane but it's FAR FAR worse when jungling. You don't really get the HP stacking benefit that would come with laning. Guardian is pretty situational too. Aftershock is just automatic on any tanky champion that can use it. More strategic options keep the game interesting. For example, I recently tried Glacialwick and it was very nice for 15 minutes or so when ganking but it definitely falls off hard.
Rioter Comments
: Fizz continues to take the short end of the stick.
screw Fizz finally have a brief window to play Xerath without him being bad don't ruin this for me btw: hexdrinker is stronger on ADs because they don't have the range safety of most mages - they actually have to get into auto range.
: I use Triumph and Coup de Grace over the other two since I take Precision secondary on Ahri. Triumph is like Dangerous Game but on steroids. Thought about switching to Cut Down on Ahri though since most champions have more base HP than her. Haven't tried Presence of Mind yet but you could get some good kills at level 6 for basically 0 Mana cost.
> [{quoted}](name=NineTailedMystic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i46nreEo,comment-id=0000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T00:37:43.690+0000) > > I use Triumph and Coup de Grace over the other two since I take Precision secondary on Ahri. Triumph is like Dangerous Game but on steroids. Thought about switching to Cut Down on Ahri though since most champions have more base HP than her. > > Haven't tried Presence of Mind yet but you could get some good kills at level 6 for basically 0 Mana cost. Triumph's good, especially on champions who build HP (like Shyvanna) but it's not instant like dangerous game.
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PrometheS

Level 30 (NA)
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