: @Riot: Season 5 and lack of support itemization(and choices).
I like the idea of 3 different upgrades to sightstone, but I'm a little worried for the enhancements. Junglers are also somewhat common buyers of a sightstone, and either Earth or Fire could be difficult to make work on a support while not being much more powerful on the jungler. I would also change Topaz to be something like +1 placed ward (to allow 4 wards placed), since 3 wards will only give you the same coverage anyways, and get cleared the same. As far as the gold items, I'm fairly happy with how they are right now. On someone like Sona, I will often start Spellthiefs, but Talisman is a much better item than FQC, so I won't upgrade it. On some supports like Thresh, if I don't need the FOTM shield, then I will also switch Relic Shield for a Talisman later. I would more ask what your thoughts are on the newer support items. I really like the new Righteous Glory, as it fills a number of spots that many supports need in the early/midgame. It provides a fair amount of health, which is a problem on many supports. It provides a greater mana pool, which can also be a boost for certain supports like Blitz or Thresh. Combined with Talisman you have a good way to initiate a fight with even immobile champions. The second active can also be useful for either peeling or chasing. Banner of Command is another alternative to Locket, since you generally need to buy Aegis anyways. It can quietly push a sidelane, and if you can ever get a Baron buff, a promoted cannon can be difficult for many teams to clear. The AP is very useful on the right champions, namely the champions that are usually in the back anyway (Sona, Janna, Nami, etc). If you don't need the shield to deal with some AoE, Banner seems quite strong. Ohmwrecker still probably doesn't have a spot, but it's no longer a complete joke of an item. It provides decent armor and health, along with 10% CDR. There's at least 2 new item choices on supports. Mikaels is no longer mandatory, and it seems like the only mandatory part about supports is the first 3 items of gold item, sightstone, boots. Aegis is arguably required at some point if the other team has a mage, but there are 2 item options out of Aegis. Mikaels, Glory, finished gold item, etc are not really required on a support, but they are obviously good options. You do bring up a good point about sightstone feeling very lacking lategame, but I don't think enhancements feel right on them, especially if the jungler can pick it up too. The 3 options for the upgrade do look nice, though.
: what about an Assassin/Fighter? very fine line to walk, but imagine a champion who engages the fight as a bulky fighter/tank-like character, and then if they get a kill (or a teammate get's killed maybe) they go into a rage and trade their survivability for killing power?
I think Irelia already fits in this role, she wants to get into a duel with an enemy carry, but is fairly beefy like a fighter. She doesn't have much AoE or CC like most other champions.
: Is this a more efficient/ fair way to rank players?
Comparing League to wrestling is like saying basketball is close to wrestling. In basketball, you have 4 other teammates. It's really hard to get through a good defender (or 5) in basketball if you can't pass, don't have someone to screen for you, etc. You might be Lebron James or Jeremy Lin, but if you are playing with a bunch of random middle school kids against even a weak NBA team, you are going to lose. The same is true of League. If you are stuck with 4 terrible players, even if you are Faker, you are going to lose. League is a game that 2 buildings matter. Your nexus, and theirs. In basketball you can measure individual contribution to the score, and it has more meaning than in League, because at the end of the game, you compare scores. At the end of a League game, you don't tally up kills and assists, you see who lost their nexus. If I play a proxy singed who dies 10 times but wastes their jungler's time, the midlaner's time, and still come out with both top towers, my team crushed bottom lane and took every dragon, my 10 deaths were worth it, because my team is much more likely to be able to kill the other team's nexus. A player's Lethality is meaningless for most supports, and any support main would find such a stat a useless measurement of their ability. Also, you can't just look at a player's KDA/contribution to see how good they are. InvertedComposer has an average KDA of 4.9/6.7/8.8 with Singed. I'm sure he must be an awful Singed player. Winrate doesn't mean anything unless matchmaking is completely random, and just puts any 5 players against any other 5 random players. The moment you start putting players who all have an 80% winrate together is the moment their winrate goes back down to 50%. Would you be happy if the other team randomly got 2 platinum players and 3 silver players, and you were with 4 bronze players?
Camphene (NA)
: (Pre-30/Premade)Matchmaking is broken.
Definitely a problem, I have a friend who just posted his game, he queued (as a diamond 2 player) up with 4 diamond 1 players as a 5 man premade, got up against a silver 1, platinum 1, an unranked player (silver last season), and 2 level 28 players. I've seen this problem multiple times as well.
Decrit (EUW)
: I think too that would be really really cool! But sadly that means way less IP to spend, then more Ip invested on champion, less champion bought with RP and then i don' t know how much it might hurt Riot sales :P Something in-between would be getting runes with IP and having tiering effect as you say, but only a base one at the beginning: the others are locked and in order to unlock them you purchase with IP; then you have unlocked that tiering effect for how much you want. About guides Riot gives various highlights, usually in champion spotlights, but that stuff should be more highlighted u.u
I don't see much of a difference in this versus the current system. If you don't provide free runes, you still need to purchase the armor runes, and as long as some effects are useful, maybe a mage wants to take a few AD runes to get the bonus damage vs minions and monsters, or for a spellblade effect.
Decrit (EUW)
: Ok this is the part 2, i try to be brief As i said, i don' t want a statfest of kind. For example, let' s say that my system is in charge; actually as defensive choices there is magic resistance, armor and health based runes ( just those, to keep it simple ). There exist different kind of runes that gives the same base stat, but different tiering effect. Let' s forget about the critical rune, that it was just a mechanic example but not with an effect i would like to see; in order to make cool critical related effects first critical itself must be updated. For example we can make an armor rune that, as a tiering effect, reduces the damage from monsters and minions, and we can make an other one that reduces damage from enemy basic attacks; plus there it is the standard armor rune, that gives armor per level as tiering effect. The tactical difference is really clear: one is for when you jungle or when you are afraid of enemy minions, the other if you want to dive deep in early duels, either by challenging a Fiora top or by jumping on an enemy Ezreal with Leona, and the other is general purpose and lategame power. Not only, but it also gives you clear disadvantages: let' s say you want to jungle, with the first one if you want to gank you have to aknowledge that you will take more damage compared to scaling armor rune or attack block rune, but you can afford to farm easier and to have a heavyer presence since thank to the minion block you will be healtyer while ganking. On the other hand having the other kind of rune might give disadvantages at clearing enemy jungle or picking objectives. You can also do a mix of both: let' s say you play master yi jungle and need to farm a lot: you might want to take minion block and maybe a bit of scaling armor, so if you have to gank later in the game you are stronger. Instead a Lee Sin might be more intrested on minion block and 3/6 runes of enemy block if he wants to do early ganks/invade. Or wathever fits your fancy! Now this is just an example of what it might be; we can also do a armor rune that reduces enemy phisical skill damage, or that increases armor while under a % of HP in order to better survive assassins, the important thing is that must be strictly related to the stats of the rune, that gives clear tactical advantages and disadvantages and that has a crystal clear role.
I guess I can combine problems 1 and 2: Because runes and masteries have a somewhat unclear effect on the game, making the system even more complicated will likely increase the number of unclear but 'bad' choices. To fix this, choices should be obvious. Guides and such would help out quite a bit. Riot could provide a little guidance, like how there are recommended items for each champion, or how Riot recommends champions for specific roles. I think I suggested this earlier, but why not have tiering effects chosen out of a dropdown menu? That way, instead of having 4 different armor runes that provide different bonuses, you have 1 armor rune that gives you the pick of 4 different bonuses. It keeps the number of runes that people would use down, solving the IP problem (or at least keeping it no more problematic than it currently is). Also, between roles, instead of having to swap to a different rune page, they could simply adjust what bonuses they have. Maybe last game you played a top lane, but now you are jungling. Change an AD tiering bonus to +damage to monsters, and an armor tiering bonus to -damage from monsters. Maybe a movespeed bonus to +movespeed when out of combat, etc.
Decrit (EUW)
: Well, consider that 1) by making only a rune-based system then your actual runes should also have more power. This means that they will be more effective and impactful, this means they will be less pulverized and invisible, and since the stat has a clear position in the gameplay then you can gather feedback about how you manage with that runeset. For example, let' s say i play Vayne: what is the difference if i build full AD or full AS runes,posed that those in this situation are both viable? In the first case i will have easier last hitting and easier poking power, that compensates since vayne lack a bit for the second, while the second choice increases her absurd duel power and scales well with her getting AD items at the beginning. It will not be world changing, but still it can make a greater impact, and then a depper strategic choice 2) and 3) are, i can say, almost collegated: about 2) i can say that is not completely true: not because a 20 knows yet the perfect build for all occasions, but because he manages to grasp the identity he must follow ( i am saying this ebcause i see people that at the beginning get thornmail on ashe or ELDER LIZARD ON SORAKA and are pretty much convinced with that ); if we want to aim to perfect mastery then sorry, you will have to wait more and more time after 30 for that, but by adding tiering effects then you can add stuff that better identifies the role of a kind of rune, for example a Resistance Glyph ( or Seal, in my head all the defence stats are exclusively Seals but that is not a thing i wanted to set yet ) can give either scaling, more useful for teamfights, or a magic shield like the hexdrinker that is more useful in laning and skirmisher for assassins that fight mages. 3) Also as i said of runes are mandatory they should then meet a repricing, or at least giving base sets free depending on what they want to do. I did not quite get the second part tought, could you explain better? :D
1) Consider someone who uses armor *glyphs* and magic resist *seals.* We can easily say that the person could be doing a better job with his runes. But in game, he doesn't realize that his runes could be improved by having a different set, and thinks that he just played a close fight wrong. This is an obvious case for someone looking at his runes, since you can say that a different set of runes is strictly better. But what about the case of AD versus armor penetration? We can generally say that armor penetration makes last hitting harder, but is better at dealing damage to champions than AD. So if a player with AD loses a fight to a player with armor penetration, were their runes set up incorrectly? Were they not playing to their champions strengths? Did they not use a summoner spell at the right time? Any effect that runes and masteries have does change play a little bit, but it's hard to agree whether the runes and masteries used are the 'correct' runes and masteries since there are many ingame factors. 2) I think this is most easily seen with rune pages. A new ADC player wants to figure out runes. He knows he wants to do damage, so he picks up AD marks and quints, and attack speed seals and glyphs. Can you fault him for not knowing that he should be using armor seals? 3) I am assuming that you would create different sets of similar runes. It's possible to avoid the design space of similar runes, but difficult. As an example, you are given free runes of armor, that provide +1 armor. However, you look at the store, and see a few different runes that might perform a similar role: rune of -0.5% physical damage taken, rune of +0.5 armor and +0.5 HP/5, or rune of -1 damage from basic attacks. How does a new player decide which of these runes is best for their champion? It's possible that I misunderstand your system, but in your example, you have crit chance marks, crit chance marks that provide crit damage as well, and then crit chance marks that deal damage more damage if an enemy is running away. It seems like in order to keep the number of options similar to the options provided by a mastery page, you would need to increase the number of different runes, yet still make choices simple and meaningful. Just about every champion in the game can effectively use armor seals, but for different reasons. Top lane takes it because of minion aggression, and because most top laners deal a fair amount of physical damage. Midlaners take it against assassins, or because they plan to harass using autoattack and fear minion damage, or because they plan to farm Wraiths fairly often. Junglers take them to take less damage from the camps as they clear. ADCs and supports take armor seals because they are against another ADC who uses many basic attacks for damage. To solve #2, it's possible to either have recommended runes, or have slots that make the runes more effective. For example, perhaps there are 9 offensive slots, 9 defensive slots, and 9 utility slots (and 3 quintessences). Runes placed in the offensive slots have their offensive stats boosted by 25%, so a rune of +1 AD provides +1.25 AD. Same for defensive and utility. That way, there are no more marks, seals, and glyphs, but you still have the option to place defensive runes in offensive slots. If I'm really scared of facing the Garen in lane, I could bring +1 armor runes in my utility slot, but they would only provide +1 armor instead of +1.25 in the defensive slots. That way, a new player gets the idea that they want a rune page that boosts not only what their role is, but also helps them in other ways. This way, it acts a little like how masteries try to get players to go 21 points in one tree, and 9 in another by providing large boosts on the 9th and 21st points in a tree.
Decrit (EUW)
: Niiiice feedback! I see that there is the recurring problem of Ip costs. I already told in the post that i did not wanted to resolve the problem to an IP level because that was a matter of resource management, while i took it by the design position. Since i don' t like to be a slacker however i proposed also a set of free runes, without going any deeper, a set of basic stat runes that should be cheaper compared to the exotic ones to convince people not much experienced what to pick and then the exotic ones, with weird ass effects that you have to pay a lot for. I want also to notice that if this system is applied there is going to be a huge reprization of things, mostly rune pages that will act at the place of masteries! I want to say, however, that i would like to be able to choose the tier effect i want rather buying different runes for each one, but that would be a HUGE impact on IP, a position in which i said i wanted to do neutral choices ( in other words if i had to change prices i had ro add IP consuime in other areas ). Maybe at Riot will be more than happy to remove some IP costs and add an IP sink but that is not up to me to decide, even if in this ipotetic mechanic i want to consider resource management while thinking about design. This thing could be combined with the idea i proposed in an other post, where i proposed the elimination of tier 1 runes, making the tier 2 runes free since level 10 and making tier 3 runes as usual: the newbie don' t want to mess up with stuff like runes aniway, oce the player gest more involved in the game he can mess up with tier 2 runes in order to get the build feeling then once he hits 20 he is ready and formed to know what to buy and what not. I mean not totally and it might have some issues but still a better preparation than the actual. I don' t think that there are many owerelming choices. I mean you have a sure-to-go set of runes for each kind that have a clear pourpose; the only thing are Quintessences that might have some weird effects, but if you drop an eye or two by the time you reach 30 you have some kind of idea; however, if you say so then there is at least a good chance that problems can emerge, in the case better add some sure-to.go runes for newbs with lower price.
I'm not sure how well you were playing when you were level 20, but I was familiar with about 3 champions at the time, maining Orianna. I believe the rune page I was aiming for was AP quints, magic pen marks, mana regen seals, and MR/level glyphs. This sounds okay, but not optimal, and most of it came from talking with friends. The problem with runes is that they don't have a very visible impact on the game. When you lose a fight by 1 autoattack, you usually don't think "I wonder if I could have had a better runepage/mastery page to have lived." You instead go "How could I have played that better?" You don't get feedback on how effective your runes/masteries are until you start a game with the wrong runes/masteries and find out how much it sucks. Providing 'generic' runes reduces, but does not eliminate many problems. The main problems I see are: 1) Runes and masteries do not provide clear feedback if they are done right or wrong. 2) New players at level 20 and 30 don't exactly know what sorts of runes and masteries they actually need, since they are still relatively unfamiliar with the game. 3) Runes cost IP, leading to worrying about 'wasting' IP on runes that do not work. I'm not sure how to make 1) better without causing more problems, Dangerous Game, for example, provides a visible gameplay effect, but if a new player does not know what it is, it creates a 'gotcha' moment like I described earlier. For 2), this problem could be solved a bit by having recommended runes, or a well written guide. For 3), obviously making runes free would solve the problem, but at the same time it hurts Riot's business model. If we keep the number of different runes needed to play at a minimum, yet still provide mastery-like effects, then new players do not need to buy new runes to have some changes in effects. If runes split to add these new effects, instead of saying "I want armor runes," and buying armor seals, a new player is wondering if they want a rune of +1 armor and +4 health, a rune of +1 armor and -0.1% damage taken or a rune of +1 armor and 0.5 HP/5, or something completely different. EDIT: ipotetic? Googled it and got 'hypothetical' in Romanian to English, and it makes sense in context, so I'm guessing that's the word you were looking for?
Decrit (EUW)
: Rune and mastery system
The current mastery system reduces the number of choices significantly, and slowly adds more choices as you place more points into the mastery tree. The current rune system could be a little more clear, but it makes choices for a new player much easier by having slots that are better at some things than others. Marks are better at penetration and flat AD than any other slot. Seals are better at armor and mana regen than any other slot. Glyphs are better at magic resist, cooldown reduction, and ability power than any other slot. While I like the ability to change my stats a little bit to adapt to my lane opponent, change my scaling, etc, part of me thinks that this rune system could get out of hand quickly. I do like the idea of 3 runes forming a set and providing a bonus. At the same time, I think mastery pages are important for allowing more choices for customization without forcing the player to spend money on new runes, and without forcing specific sets of runes. I can have wildly different goals with the same rune page, and my mastery page would reflect that. Flat AP quints, hybrid penetration marks, armor seals and MR glyphs can be used top on a tank, mid on a mage, or bottom on a support. My mastery page is wildly different based on what lane I am in. The biggest problem I see for new players with suggested systems is that they would be rather intimidating without a large guide, and would require a huge burden of knowledge. Which runes provide what bonuses? What bonuses do I even want on this champion? With mastery page, knowing which masteries are good makes the choices fairly simple for an experienced player. For a less experienced player, they have a great deal of difficulty evaluating which masteries are good, which masteries they should shoot for, and which masteries should just be ignored (does anyone except Ryze and maybe Singed actually take Expanded Mind?). If you don't know a bonus exists, it might create a 'gotcha' moment, which feels bad. If you didn't know Dangerous Game existed as a mastery, and someone lived because of it, wouldn't you be a little angry at the game? Why your enemy lived through the Ignite becomes unclear. New level 30 players are not really what I would consider 'experienced' at the game, I know that I was not very confident in my play when I was level 30, and I certainly was not above the Bronze level. If all the runes have different effects on them, then you end up telling a new player to make a choice between hundreds of options. It's overwhelming, especially if the runes cost IP. You don't want to make the wrong choice with your hard earned IP. If there are too many combinations that provide different bonuses, then even if the new player has access to all the runes, they have to read a huge list of 100+ different combinations and their bonuses before trying to pick the best one. I know some people love to brainstorm builds, whether it be for a tabletop RPG, MMO, or even a CCG/LCG deck. But you do this once you are quite experienced at the game. Forcing people through hundreds of choices while they are new to the game is daunting. One solution I could think of would be to have each set of 3 runes have a choice of several effects. So when you chose 3 armor seals, you would get to pick between choices like -10% damage from critical strikes, -2 damage from basic attacks, or +15 health. When you have a set of 3 sets of armor seals, you would get to choose another larger bonus, such as 10% tenacity, 20% less effective slows, or -4% physical damage taken. That way, when a new player looks to buy runes, they can see what the bonuses are, and see if any of them seem useful on their champion. It reduces, but does not eliminate the increased knowledge required to use the new system. If something like this were implemented, I would also want to remove a lot of the less common runes. Things like flat mana, energy, crit damage, or even AD/level. This would reduce the number of false choices, as well as help prevent exhausting the design space.
Pushover (NA)
: Obviously not The Harlequin, but I should be able to do this for you. **Shoving** Shoving is basically attacking as often as possible to try and clear the wave quickly. When you do, the single wave, minus a few minions, ends up at the opponent's tower. **Soft Pushing** By comparison, soft pushing is where you only take last hits. What does this do for you? If the wave is even, taking only last hits will push the lane. However, because you are only last hitting, the enemy minions do not die as fast. Another wave comes while you are last hitting, so your wave has a few more minions than the other wave. You keep last hitting, and maybe a 3rd wave comes before finally you and your minions clear out the enemy wave. There's a number of advantages to soft pushing, notably the larger number of minions makes attacking the enemy tower easier and safer, as well as diving/trading. **Wave Building** The goal of wave building is to create a 'super wave,' or a large group of minions that can get significant damage done to a tower on its own. This is a mid/lategame tactic, as earlygame there is not as much action around the map, and your opponent is right in lane to stop this push. Caster minions are more fragile than melee minions, but do more damage. By killing them, you reduce the damage dealt to your minions, and by leaving the melee minions in place, you are making sure your wave takes a while to kill the other wave. Once you start this wave, you want to generally group with your team, and pressure a different lane while the wave builds. That way, even if your team can't win a 5v5 fight under the turret, your super wave pressures a tower. How does the wave build? As an example, suppose you go top, and the wave is even. 3 melee minions and 3 casters vs 3 melees and 3 casters. You kill 2 casters, leaving 1 caster and 3 melee minions. Your minions take a while to kill the others, but don't take much damage. After about 30 seconds, the next wave arrives. Your wave now looks something like 6 casters and 5 melee minions vs the enemy wave of 3 melee minions and ~4 casters. This snowballs, creating a larger and larger minion wave until it hits the enemy tower. **Freezing** If you want to keep the minions in the same place, it takes a good deal of practice, or a good deal of tanking minions. If the wave is even, it's incredibly hard to keep the minions in the same place. The only way to do it is known as 'perfect last hitting,' where you attack minions who are going to die *while your allied caster minions have their projectiles in the air.* This makes it so that you have no impact on the wave. If the wave is pushing towards you, your damage should equal the damage from the extra enemy minions. Suppose there are 8 caster minions and 3 melee minions pushing you. Your wave consists of 3 melee minions and 3 caster minions. The 5 extra caster minions pushing towards you will offset the damage you deal by last hitting (in fact, it will probably outdamage your last hitting). So as long as you keep 5 caster minions alive by the time the wave dies, the reinforcing wave will bring it back up to 8 casters and 3 melee minions. If you have done it perfectly, your new wave will come right as your last minion dies, holding it in place. Other options are to fall back a bit, or tank the minionsfor a bit. Obviously tanking can lead to bad trades with your opponent, unless you are ahead. You might be wondering how many caster minions you want opposing you, and as a general rule of thumb, you want 3 or 4. Things get a little weird around the cannon minion, and it takes practice to freeze the lane. You can try for yourself by soft pushing a wave into the enemy tower and letting the tower clear the minions. If the wave was large enough, you should end up with something workable (5 or 6 ranged minions) to practice freezing with. It's also really hard to keep the lane entrenched, because the minion AI might decide to walk into tower range, messing up your freeze. TL;DR: Keeping the wave in one spot is hard and takes a lot of practice.
Also, for shoving vs soft pushing in the earlygame, especially top lane: You almost always want to shove the lane if you plan to recall or roam. Shoving the lane gives you the most time to come back before your opponent shoves the wave back to your tower. If your opponent leaves lane (roaming, or forced to back), you generally want to shove the lane as well, since if you can get the wave to the tower, they will lose the gold and XP from the wave. Soft pushing is usually a better option when your opponent is in the lane, since when you slowly build up a wave, it becomes increasingly difficult for your opponent to fight you in the minion wave (see minion aggro). One riskier part is when the wave is past the midway point, as you are in greater danger from a gank. Also, with a large wave under the tower, it becomes more difficult to manage last hitting under the tower. TL;DR: Shove when your opponent leaves lane, or when you want to leave your lane, otherwise soft push. EDIT: I sorta got ninja'd.
: By November, I'll be playing League for a **year**, but I'm still unfamiliar with a lot of mechanics. I assume "shoving" is aggressive pushing, while "soft push" is more minion reliant, but could you break those down in the simplest terms? I've only recently learned about wave building, and I'm afraid I don't quite get it. If you want to keep the minion "convergence point" in the same place, what do you do? I heard you just last hit, but doesn't that still push the lane since you're still aiding your own minions? You can't be ganked if you're entrenched, but how do you maintain that position?
Obviously not The Harlequin, but I should be able to do this for you. **Shoving** Shoving is basically attacking as often as possible to try and clear the wave quickly. When you do, the single wave, minus a few minions, ends up at the opponent's tower. **Soft Pushing** By comparison, soft pushing is where you only take last hits. What does this do for you? If the wave is even, taking only last hits will push the lane. However, because you are only last hitting, the enemy minions do not die as fast. Another wave comes while you are last hitting, so your wave has a few more minions than the other wave. You keep last hitting, and maybe a 3rd wave comes before finally you and your minions clear out the enemy wave. There's a number of advantages to soft pushing, notably the larger number of minions makes attacking the enemy tower easier and safer, as well as diving/trading. **Wave Building** The goal of wave building is to create a 'super wave,' or a large group of minions that can get significant damage done to a tower on its own. This is a mid/lategame tactic, as earlygame there is not as much action around the map, and your opponent is right in lane to stop this push. Caster minions are more fragile than melee minions, but do more damage. By killing them, you reduce the damage dealt to your minions, and by leaving the melee minions in place, you are making sure your wave takes a while to kill the other wave. Once you start this wave, you want to generally group with your team, and pressure a different lane while the wave builds. That way, even if your team can't win a 5v5 fight under the turret, your super wave pressures a tower. How does the wave build? As an example, suppose you go top, and the wave is even. 3 melee minions and 3 casters vs 3 melees and 3 casters. You kill 2 casters, leaving 1 caster and 3 melee minions. Your minions take a while to kill the others, but don't take much damage. After about 30 seconds, the next wave arrives. Your wave now looks something like 6 casters and 5 melee minions vs the enemy wave of 3 melee minions and ~4 casters. This snowballs, creating a larger and larger minion wave until it hits the enemy tower. **Freezing** If you want to keep the minions in the same place, it takes a good deal of practice, or a good deal of tanking minions. If the wave is even, it's incredibly hard to keep the minions in the same place. The only way to do it is known as 'perfect last hitting,' where you attack minions who are going to die *while your allied caster minions have their projectiles in the air.* This makes it so that you have no impact on the wave. If the wave is pushing towards you, your damage should equal the damage from the extra enemy minions. Suppose there are 8 caster minions and 3 melee minions pushing you. Your wave consists of 3 melee minions and 3 caster minions. The 5 extra caster minions pushing towards you will offset the damage you deal by last hitting (in fact, it will probably outdamage your last hitting). So as long as you keep 5 caster minions alive by the time the wave dies, the reinforcing wave will bring it back up to 8 casters and 3 melee minions. If you have done it perfectly, your new wave will come right as your last minion dies, holding it in place. Other options are to fall back a bit, or tank the minionsfor a bit. Obviously tanking can lead to bad trades with your opponent, unless you are ahead. You might be wondering how many caster minions you want opposing you, and as a general rule of thumb, you want 3 or 4. Things get a little weird around the cannon minion, and it takes practice to freeze the lane. You can try for yourself by soft pushing a wave into the enemy tower and letting the tower clear the minions. If the wave was large enough, you should end up with something workable (5 or 6 ranged minions) to practice freezing with. It's also really hard to keep the lane entrenched, because the minion AI might decide to walk into tower range, messing up your freeze. TL;DR: Keeping the wave in one spot is hard and takes a lot of practice.
Xulsigae (NA)
: I don't see why she flashed up and to the left at the beginning.
It's a visual bug, if you slow it down, she flashes up and to the right, but ends up appearing up and to the left briefly.
: Does Ryze need a kit rework?
I don't think Ryze needs a complete rework. He is simple to pick up, yes, but he is a champion who is difficult to master. Little decisions such as whether to cast E first or W first can change Ryze's damage output significantly, as does ordering spells. A new player who just goes QWERQ isn't going to be doing too many big things with Ryze. Ryze has a low skill floor (most people can at least do OK), but a high skill ceiling. So there's a lot of room for a Ryze player to improve. You could make a note that Ryze is too powerful at 40% CDR, since with Seraphs and RoA, that's the point where he gets a little out of hand.
joshee (NA)
: Buy Back Button Bug is Back!
Whenever you undo, it reverts your health and mana back to the values when you bought the item to avoid abuse of buying/selling to heal faster.
Pika310 (NA)
: The total damage is actually only about the same as her old level 1 trade. I can calculate the numbers if you want, it's probably only 1 or 2 points more at most. This proposed change does not retain any of her old individual damage, it just makes up for it with team damage. In total, her Staccato would only do 7.5% more with these numbers, provided your teammates follow-up. In other words, it rewards team interaction. Last I checked part of the rework was to reward teamwork.
Level 1, Sona has 50 AD. gets 13 + 0.2 AP bonus damage from Power Chord. Old Sona Q dealt 50 + 0.5 AP magic damage, and provided 4 AP and AD. So Q is 52 + 0.5 AP and the Power Chord is 2 x (54.8 + 13 + 0.2 x AP). The ADC's auto gets +4 AD as well. In total, old Sona provides 52 + 4 + 109.6 + 26 + 0.9 AP = 191.6 + 0.9 AP mixed damage. New Sona Q deals 40 + 0.5 AP magic damage and provides a magic damage buff of 40 + 0.25 to herself and her ADC. So Q is 40 + 0.5 AP + (40 + 0.25 AP) x 2, or 120 + 1.0 AP. The power chord is 1.5 x (50 + 13 + 0.2 AP), or 94.5 + 0.3 AP damage. In total, new Sona provides 120 + 94.5 + 1.3 AP damage, or 214.5 + 1.3 AP mixed damage. You want to add a further 13 * 0.65 + 0.1 AP, or an extra ~8.5 + 0.1 AP. While I misread it initially, more damage isn't what Sona needs. She already rewards team interaction enough, providing more than old Sona for a short level 1 trade. EDIT: LoLWiki is bad and has its numbers off, should be 20 + 0.25 AP, for a total of 40 less damage. So her output is 174.5 + 1.3 AP. So it is a little lower early, the mark brings up the damage a little bit. Is it better than simply adding more damage to her passive, though? 5 more damage on her passive brings the burst up to 184.5 with a higher AP ratio, and keeps the ability relatively simple.
: a simple feature that would make weterans life easy
I believe you can type "Fighter" or "Marksman" in the search bar to get all champions tagged as such. While you might miss a few (Support will miss Annie/Zyra, for example), it will have most of what you seem to be asking for.
Pika310 (NA)
: Proposed Staccato Buff
So you want her Q auto with an ADC auto followup to deal Q damage + 215% Power Chord + 0.1 AP + both procs of empowered Q auto? Sona doesn't need an autowin trade with 2 autoattacks button.
: I love Diana too (a bit too much), but I think that the main problem of her kit is that she's neither an assassin or a fighter, and fails to excel at both. From my perspective, of course. I'm no game designer, *but* I do play a lot of League and have studied the game's mechanic's in-depth (maybe a little too much). Without further ado, here's my two cents: *Warning, I'm a big nerd so this will be a long read.* > **Why current Diana can't be a fighter/bruiser:** - **No sustain.** Most fighters have *some* sort of sustain. Be it being manaless, lifesteal/spellvamp, heal x ammount of health every y. She's veeeeery mana hungry and has no natural sustain, that's why she's so hard to play on early levels. - **Attack Speed is counter-intuitive to burst.** Attack Speed means high, sustained damage so you need survivability to be able to dish out damage. Burst is the opposite. - **Faceroll combo.** As much as I love Diana, there isn't much you can do besides Q, R, E, W, auto attack, Q, R. Most bruisers have some sort of combo-y mixup possibility with their abilities. Like Riven, Renekton, Zac, etc. > **Why current Diana can't be an assassin:** - **So-so scalings.** Most bursty assassins have really high scalings so they can burst people, Diana has "meh" scalings. (She can burst stuff when she's fed, but that's the thing, anyone who is fed is likely to burst.) - **Shield and CC are counter-intuitive to the assassin playstyle.** Assassins go in, *assassinate someone* and then leave as quickly as possible. *Not draw everyone into them.* Within this time, a shield is useless, as you want to get out as quickly as possible. Lets take for example Katarina. Does she have CC? Does she have a shield? No! She has abilities that lets her kill stuff quickly and get out. Which brings me to the next point... - **No reliable escape mechanic.** She has to land a Q, and then R into something. And that takes time. Assassins are on the clock. Why can't she reposition like Vayne, or use a Shadow like Zed, or Shunpo like Kat? > **How do we address these issues?** The answer is obvious, *focus on one playstyle instead of making a weird functioning hybrid.* I present to you: **Bruiser-Caster Diana!** (I love Bruiser champions, let me be.) - ** Passive - Moonsilver Blade** Every time Diana casts an ability her blade becomes empowered with moonlight, making her next auto attack deal extra damage and recover a little mana. If Diana stacks 3 Moonsilver Blade stacks, her next auto attack will slow the target, deal extra damage, and recover mana. - ** Q - Crescent Strike** Diana slashes the area around her, dealing damage to all enemies in an area. Enemies struck by this ability are revealed. - ** W - Lunar Rush** Diana makes a quick dash into a target location. Champion kills or assists reduce this this ability's cool down. - ** E - Moonfall** Diana draws all enemies around her, gaining extra Armor and Magic Resist for every Enemy Champion or Big Monster Pulled. - ** R - Scorn of the Moon** Diana calls for the power of the moon, empowering her and all of her abilities for x seconds. During this time, Diana's abilities cost no mana and have extended range, she also gains the ability to cast Eclipse. *THE SYMBOL ON HER FOREHEAD AND HER EYES WILL GLOW WITH SWEET-ASS MOONLIGHT DURING THIS TIME.* - ** R second cast - Eclipse** Diana becomes shrouded in Lunar energy, rises up in the air, and swiftly strikes in a moon pattern slash (Kinda like her current Q, but with shorter range and a wider area) that damages and knocks back all enemies in the area. Like I've said, I'm no designer but I do know this game. What do you think, IronStylus? Do you like my Bruiser Diana? Also! Quick fix: > MAKE HER AND LEONA HAVE AN EVENT ALREADY Edit: I'm not a native english speaker so I'm sorry if I say something that feels out of place. Edit 2: I added a Diana portrait I drew to draw attention. Edit 3: Nerfs! Removed knock up on E and reset on W, Passive now slows instead of stunning. Removed slow from Q.
> I love Diana too (a bit too much), but I think that the main problem of her kit is that she's neither an assassin or a fighter, and fails to excel at both. > From my perspective, of course. I'm no game designer, *but* I do play a lot of League and have studied the game's mechanic's in-depth (maybe a little too much). > Without further ado, here's my two cents: > > *Warning, I'm a big nerd so this will be a long read.* > > > **Why current Diana can't be a fighter/bruiser:** > Snip > > > **Why current Diana can't be an assassin:** > Snip I just want to address many of the points I disagree with here. **No Sustain** There are a number of fighters with no sustain, Rumble, Shyvana, Jarvan IV, Darius. While most fighters have sustain, some, generally those that have powerful trades, do not. **Attack Speed** I think this belongs in the assassin section, survivability is a stat fighters want, Attack Speed could work there. Also Jarvan IV gets free attack speed but still retains high burst. But attack speed I would agree does not really belong on an assassin. **Faceroll Combo** For a champion like Irelia, how many options does she really have? She presses W to get damage, Q's into the fight, E's her target, and mashes R if she needs it. In lane she can mix it up a little by running up to them and pressing E, then W, then Q. How can Diana mix it up? She could still QR to start, E and W. Or she could E (if the range wasn't so low), then W, then Q, with autos. Fairly similar. **So-so scalings** Leblanc, for a long time, had relatively bad scalings. Diana, if you look at her potential damage output, actually has a fairly high scaling. 0.7 (Q) + 0.6 (R) + 3 * 0.2 (W) + 0.6 (R) + 0.8 (pass) = 3.3. Throw another Q, and it's 4.0. Annie has 2.65, + 0.2/sec Tibbers is around. Veigar is 2.8, albeit not counting enemy AP scaling. Scalings do not make an assassin. It just means how well they scale into lategame. **Shields and CC** Evelyn when she was a strong assassin was good because she used a fairly large shield to absorb hits as she ran in. Shields can offer a more brawlerish way to get in and out. CC is useful too. Consider Fizz, his ult has CC so that the target doesn't run away when he's trying to kill them. Initiates with CC allow you to easily get your spells off. With Diana, her E is somewhat stapled to her ult as an assassin. **No Reliable Escape Mechanic** OK, I will agree here, Diana lacks this, and somewhat needs it to be a good assassin. I think you could make individual arguments that Diana needs more of one of these areas (needs more scaling, needs more escapes, etc) but there are champions in either role that lacks one or several of these areas and still performed fine, or better than fine in the past.
: @Vesh @Morello - A plea for a Band-Aid fix: Please don't leave waiting any more years!
I think Diana definitely needs buffs, she's fun to play but fairly abysmal right now. Part of the problem is identity. Where do you see Diana playing? Is she a burst mage/assassin? Is she a fighter? I personally lean more towards making her a better fighter champion, since melee AP assassin is covered fairly well with Akali and Fizz. I think the one problem that Diana has consistently had is that her burst has very little couterplay short of "dodge her Q." If she lands her Q, WRER auto is a lot of burst, especially if R gives a passive stack. I would like to see R go on a 1 second cooldown when she ults a marked target, allowing the target at least a small window to not simply explode . It still allows her to get around a teamfight, but she doesn't take all of someone's health in half a second after landing Q when ahead. It also promotes a little autoattacking, possibly allowing the R to give passive stacks so that QRRauto does not do so much damage. With regards to the R QoL change, Irelia doesn't get a reset on Bladesurge if the target dies before she ends up hitting the target, so that would need to get fixed too. In terms of making Diana feel more fightery: She would be building more tank stats and less raw AP. Therefore, she would not necessarily need higher AP ratios, and instead get higher base numbers. Passive: Attack speed buffs would be good, so she can get more done with just autoattacks. Q: Currently she could build a Nashor's Tooth, and if you make her closer to a fighter, she would be more likely to get a Nashor's, especially if her base attack speed got buffed. Maybe buff the base damage while reducing the AP ratio if she is to be a fighter. Could use a bit lower mana cost considering she probably needs to use it to farm against some champions, yet still needs mana to harass/allin at level 6. W: Increasing the base shield would make her feel better about being a fighter. Not sure how to feel about the stacking shield, it could get obnoxious fighting her toplane if she is able to get a huge shield as she allins you. That might be just what she needs, though. E: Does this skill currently even do anything? Definitely agree this needs buffs. It's IMO one her most unique abilities, and it's a shame that it's basically useless right now. R: As far as double casting (or triple casting in this case), I think as I outlined earlier, it's somewhat unhealthy with the amount of burst she can put out (I have to imagine it's higher than Akali's double Q, possibly higher than Fizz's burst.) I think her ult is fine as long as her E gets better, since right now, she ults and the other person can easily get away. As far as resetting on kills, I would say no, because then when she's ahead, she becomes like Kha'zix, eating a low HP target, jumping onto the next target with Q and ult, eating them with ult, jump to next target, etc. Maybe you don't want Diana as a fighter, and instead as an AP assassin, but I think she should not have the tools to be a cheesy DFG burst mage. What role do you see Diana playing? Regarding the final paragraph, why do you want things to see the light of day? You are asking about Diana! Changes should be seeing the light of the moon ;P EDIT: English. I can't speaks it.
capus (NA)
: Why do we like/not like the new Sona?
I actually like the direction they took with new Sona, it's just that her numbers are undertuned. Previously, you could be decently effective while playing half asleep. Press Q if the opponents are running at you, run away. Q auto if you have a power chord up. Otherwise fall asleep on your W key until you and your ally are close to full health. Later in the game you could probably just mash W and E, and as long as you landed a reasonable ult, you were doing your job. I played Sona a fair amount last season (34 ranked games, 70% winrate), and she was simply strong past laning. Aside from the brief period where Taric was the best support and crushed Sona in lane, Sona was extremely powerful at almost no risk. Right now, you have to be more involved, you have to heal at the right time to get value out of the shield. The biggest problem is that her low level healing abilities got nerfed too hard, forcing you to max heal instead of Q. In turn, her poke damage is greatly reduced because you don't have spare points early, leading her to deal low damage but otherwise heal as much as old Sona. She needs her ability to poke to not get walked over. You can force a fight with Sona, but if she is able to kite, she previously would be able to outheal after the fight is over. This is no longer the case, which is why she feels exceptionally weak. As for her theme, I think it works a little better. You aren't going to be playing minute long concertos on a battlefield, I think that these are more akin to the trumpeting before a cavalry charge and those brief pieces. The range could be a little bigger, but too big and she becomes too powerful in teamfights. I think there is a certain amount of getting used to the ranges and getting used to playing with a Sona. Instead of CLICK THE DAMN LANTERN we have GET IN THE DAMN ZONE. The one change I would like on her Q would be to change it to be any attack or single target spell procs the damage, excluding Sona's Q. That way champions that don't autoattack are still more likely to make use of the buff.
: Using the pre-season calculator I've seen [this](http://dpatti.com/s4/#3aT27Hd307Uy) on Marksmen and AD-Assassins. (Just adjust the points to the current Mastery Tree). It's a bit weird, but I've tried it on some champions and it works for a lot of them. (Thanks again for the explanation. It's nice to see things from another (but not opposite) point of view :D)
I can see the justification for AD assassins mid, as they would want to roam, and +1.5% movespeed helps there. Potion masteries help if you don't get lifesteal (each potion gives 35 more HP and 10 mana). I could also see it justified on ADCs who do not want to build a vamp scepter early, yet still need the health regen.
: Thanks for the feedback, I honestly hadn't thought about some of the stuff. However (this just bugs me a little) 1 HP5 = 36 Gold ; 4 HP = 11 Gold ; 2 HP = 5 Gold ; 1 MP5 = 60 Gold. The mastery would actually get better the higher its rank :D And also, the whole point of making different ranks offer different strengths is to make the players choice seem more impactful. -> You don't want rank 3's MP5 because you don't have mana problems, but rank 2's Health is lower than rank 3's and you want that extra Health. Do you spend the point or not? You see what I mean? In reality it doesn't seem like that much of a deal, but whether or not you know it, you *do* think about this while picking your masteries. I mean, having 2 more or less HP5 doesn't seem like a big deal either right? Masteries aren't that strong to begin with. And I *did* give it a cool name! Vitality! :D Then, you said masteries are pretty straightforward, but I must disagree having seen some pro-player and Korean mastery trees. The things they skill and the way they justify it ... wow. Lastly, that's why I think Timed Masteries should only be above 12 points in the Defense or Utility Tree. So they don't become must-haves. Thanks again! :)
With slightly changing the amount of health a mastery provides, to me, it means nothing. Between rank 1 and rank 2 is effectively the difference between +12 health and +12 health and 1 HP5, 4 health barely makes a difference (20 seconds to match it with 1 HP5). I would not put the 3rd point in with regards to the higher health, it would only be because of mana. 2 HP is 10 seconds at 1 HP5. Also, with masteries, you are already choosing one mastery over another, I think masteries need to be more complicated by choosing how many points to place in a mastery over another. You could make a more meaningful choice by accentuating the differences, for example rank 1 of a mastery is +1 HP5, rank 2 is +2 MP5, and rank 3 is +3 energy/5. The small amount of health provided shouldn't deter someone from taking the other effects, and so rather than making it a little more confusing by changing the health numbers around, emphasize the differences. There are a few mastery tree points that provide a big boost or good value, and some of them are not too obvious. Reinforced Armor, for example, is a quite powerful mastery, especially against a champion like Yasuo and an ADC. It can be a ~5% damage reduction against their basic attacks if they have 30% crit, and as it goes higher, it gets more value, but lots of people don't take it. Perseverance took a little while before people realized how strong it was. Early individual points in a mastery tree do not make for much, but if you have ever taken the wrong mastery page to a lane, you can feel how much weaker you are. Part of making masteries not change what they provide is you don't want players making the incorrect choice because they look too heavily into the downside. In this case, someone might consider not taking the mastery because it gives less health. No math involved. I don't know what rank you are on your main account, but I know some people in lower ranks who have some very questionable logic when it comes to masteries. One is Silver 5, his ADC mastery page is 25/5/0, with the 5 points in defense including Bladed Armor, and he opts for 5% CDR over 6% armor/magic penetration. No doubt he would justify it by saying that he does golems/wight as ADC, and that he would be penetrating only like 10 armor against a tank. There are a number of 'obvious' choices that are not so obvious to other people. I would say that masteries should have meaningful choices, but there should not be so many choices as to become overwhelming. Can you provide and example of some of the Korean mastery trees? I play a few weird ones, 4/13/13 Nasus is good, I have a friend who plays 5/4/21 with Ryze (and is one of the best NA Ryze players for solo queue, although I would play 4/5/21 with that page...)
: Mastery Tree -mechanics- suggestions, no full-on reworks inside.
As for 1, I think it could work, but at the same time, it's basically what the left and right sides of the offense tree are. I don't know if just splitting the two up is better, the way we have +armor and +mr masteries in defense, or +AD and +AP masteries in offense. For 2, the higher ranks have to be better than the previous ranks. Plus, is it that big of a change to do something like: 1: +12 HP 2: +12 HP and 1 HP5 3: +12 HP and 1 HP5 and 1 MP5 Even if you made rank 3 only give HP and MP5, it would feel a little strange. Also, it's hard to name something like this and keep having it with flavor. Veteran? Been in wars, so you are a little tougher, so the champion has more HP. Scavenger? You find gold on the dead guys around you. Another problem is it will either make well crafted masteries more or less important. Either this is constructed in a way that I could randomly throw points into my masteries and get something reasonable, or the opposite, if I don't construct my masteries very well, I do much worse, and the correct way would not be as obvious due to the increased complexity of the masteries. Masteries right now are fairly straightforward. Need AD? Go down the AD side of the offensive tree. Need defensive stuff? The middle of the defense tree is a little confusing for many people, but the first 9 or 13 points are fairly obvious, as is the 21st. The utility tree is probably the most confusing, but you can still take 9 points fairly easily, and 16 or 17 if you are a support. As for 3, it could work, but runes/masteries are mostly taken for the earlygame. Some exceptions are the later points in the tree, some like Executioner are good all game. But armor, flat HP, etc are just much better in the earlygame. Adrenaline, for example, would become a must-have on most toplaners, not just a bullying thing. If you are a bully, you won't pass up the even GREATER ability to bully, and if you are being bullied, you won't pass up the ability to get bullied even less. Scavenger's best use is fairly clear as is, you spend the most amount of time in lane during the early game, and being in the middle of the utility tree means that mostly supports will be considering taking it. With 4, we somewhat have them already in items. Seekers Armguard? Kill a bunch of things. Feral Flare? Kill 30 large monsters. Tear of the Goddess? Cast a lot of spells.
: I think there will probably be some auras that stay. In particular, punchy short range auras like Sunfire Cape are probably going to be sticking around. In general, though, any time Riot needs to trim power from a champion, I expect auras to be one of the first places they look. Any time there's a champion rework, I'd expect auras to either disappear or become punchier, more active, and shorter duration, like we saw with Sona's auras. For example, Warwick is going to get a rework soon (tm) and I expect his W aura to be disappearing when that happens. Also, auras aren't the world's most pressing problem with League. They're more powerful than they are fun or noticeable, so that's not great design, but they do work and it's hard to make a broken aura. I would expect Riot to be spending more of their systems-level effort doing things like fixing bruiser play patterns and coming up with some story on how ranged and melee should interact in lane.
I think Riot's stance on Auras has to do with the intent. With Sona's abilities, you generally went "Oh, I want to shoot my Q for damage/use W for healing" more often than "oh, I want to give my allies AD and AP or armor and MR." The same thing happened with J4. You either went "Let me put this E down for damage and so I can Q to it" or "Let me put my E down so we can take this turret/dragon/baron faster," not "Let me put this E down so I can give my allies all this free armor." Aegis by comparison you build because you WANT the MR aura. Locket you get for the shield. With Sona it's a little more iffy, but at least they retained that 'press Q empowers my nearby allies, W to reduce the damage they take.'
: I think the official Riot stance on Atma's is "we're going to get rid of it", because getting damage by building tanky isn't OK. I can see how a low gold efficiency item might be a good middle ground there, but I don't think this is enough. 45 AD --> 1620g 45 Armor --> 900g 15 HP5 --> 540g TOTAL --> 3060g The Active + Passive + Passive need to be worth 340g for this item to be gold-efficient. I'll just eyeball some stuff -- Giant's Belt and a Doran's Blade (it has lower bonus HP than DShield) with Juggernaut and Veteran's Scars (mandatory for a top laner getting this item) gives 500 HP, or 10 AD, boosting gold efficiency by 360g and putting this purchase in the black *without counting Tiamat's passive and active*. That just seems too efficient, especially considering this theoretical bruiser has only one legendary item. Turn that belt into a Sunfire Cape, stack on Randuin's Omen, add a Spirit Visage or Banshee's Veil to taste, and run around as Darius making people cry.
I think the easiest way to see that this item is way out of line is to look at someone like Renekton going Atmogs (2830 + 3400 = 6230g) instead of Sunfire Hydra (2650 + 3300 = 5950g). Renekton has roughly 2000 HP at level 16 from a Dorans and masteries. Warmogs gives 1000 HP, for a total of 3000 HP. Atmas would provide 105 AD and 45 armor. Sunfire Hydra, on the other hand gives 450 HP, and the same armor, and 75 AD. Health regen is also even. Would you trade the lifesteal from Hydra, Sunfire passive and 270 gold for the 30 HP/5 regen on Warmogs, 550 more health, and 30 more AD? That's like 2000+ more gold in items if we count the Hydra lifesteal even with Warmog passive. This doesn't even take into account the fact that Renekton will build more health items later in Spirit Visage, nor the fact that he gains a ton of health from his ult as well, which would in turn grant him even more AD. We know how strong Renekton is with Sunfire Hydra, making him stronger is not what is needed. EDIT: Also the build path suits Renekton very well, he can either go Giants Belt first, or he can rush Tiamat, then get the other, then go Chain Vest -> Atmas -> Warmogs, which is just like how current Renekton will go Giants Belt/Tiamat, then the other, then Sunfire then Hydra. EDIT2: I reread, it's actually bonus health. Renekton has ~1800 base health, so it loses 36 AD from what I thought it was. Still, 550 HP, 5 less AD versus the sunfire passive, not counting things like Renekton ultimate, or items you buy afterwards is a good tradeoff. Bought later makes in insanely good.
: 1st- Isn't the nerf on Ziggs {{champion:115}} ulti a bit too harsh? If they wanted to reduce his wave clear from afar wouldn't it be better to simply reduce the damage against minions? Because at 120 seconds at late game, when everyone has their ultimates at around one minute, doesn't sound very fair. 2nd- Do you have any plans for items that combine Atk Speed & Armor or Atk Speed & Hp? Those are a combination that's missing. But then you have pairs of items that do practically the same, like the Hp/Armor of {{item:3143}} and {{item:3068}} , Hp/Mr in {{item:3065}} and {{item:3102}} and Atk Speed/Crit in {{item:3087}} and {{item:3046}} . So, we have the same combinations in multiple items but other stats like those I said, have 0 items. 3rd- It feels like non SR maps are neglected a lot. First there was an incident with the ward from {{item:3205}} completely shaking the balance in those maps. Then there are some mysteries like {{item:3508}} being suddenly removed. I suspect it's because of the inclusion of {{item:1038}} in the recipe but it wasn't even announced. Then there are some errors in the tooltips, for example the new {{item:3208}} still showing the old stats or the new {{item:3159}} not showing the bonus gold. It makes me think that theses maps are not being tested enough. The balance here is just nerfing what's overpowered and little else. Are there any plans to bring better balance to these maps and/or doing something to increase their player base? 4th- What are your thoughts about slow, squichy and immobile champions like Brand, Malzahar and others? They don't see much gameplay, either in solo que or competetive play. Is this an issue? If so how could it be solved?
I think with regards to 1, Ziggs lategame will have at least 25% cdr (Athene's+masteries), meaning his ult CD is around 90 seconds. Furthermore, there are very few champions better than Ziggs at making a fight near him NOT happen. He has long ranged wave clear, so stalling an extra minion wave should not be a problem for him.
Pika310 (NA)
: So you're silencing the Etwahl and not Sona herself? What kind of magic meant for creatures/simulacrums is able to automatically hone in on their weapon/tool instead, when that's not what it was intended for in the first place? Are crows even smart enough to have such highly intellectual decision-making? If so, is the crow pecking twice, once at Sona then a second time at the Etwahl? Cause somehow she's taking damage. (The crow is just an example, it could be Garen performing a Master Yi-like double strike.) In that case, I propose that I should be allowed to shoot Yasuo's sword into tiny shards with my gun. Fair is fair.
Also things like Wind Wall stoping Viktor's laser... the wind is so strong it stops light.
Pika310 (NA)
: I feel it's also worth noting she's still almost as vulnerable to silences as always. I mean come on, being mute is part of her persona. Why you gotta go and ignore/make fun of that by letting silences affect her? She needs to stop being labeled as a handicap and be renamed as handicapable! Seriously though, she should be immune to silences.
She. Plays. A. Musical. Instrument. No music = no magic.
: if youre as squishy as sona everyone is an assassin. if youre in the middle of a teamfight, enemy tanks running on top of you and enemy backline sniping/assassinating you, how much time do you really have to run around like the mailman to your teammates?
If you are actually getting attacked by a bruiser/tank, you don't need to play mailman because it means that the bruiser/tank isn't attacking a higher priority target. So your ally doesn't need a shield because he isn't getting attacked. He doesn't need a movespeed buff because he doesn't need to kite. If both front line champions from the other team are on top of you and your ADC, then is your frontline drunk or something? It's like saying you can't effective if Zed ults you. But then he isn't doing anything to the rest of your backline, and as long as you survive, you have effectively nullified Zed. Sona's closest competitor in supports is Nami. She's just as squishy as Sona, if not squishier.
Kynami (NA)
: The fact that its a pretty juicy "Place Wombo Combo Here" in conjunction with it blatantly telegraphing her intentions. Its such an attention draw that realistically she will be unable to afford tagging more than two allies with it under most circumstances.
Draven has the 'I WILL BE STANDING RIGHT HERE IN 1 SECOND' skill of his Q. Despite that, he is still a very powerful solo queue champion. Draven is also squisher and a higher priority target. Doesn't seem to stop him from being effective.
: what two damage dealers in the back? have you seen midlane lately? its mostly AD assasins who are RIGHT IN THE FRONT LINE... so thats top/jungle/mid in the front line if she wants to be within (ibelieve they said) 800 total range (from what they said thats from one edge to the other edge so its 400 from her to one edge) ... how many top laners, mid laners, and junglers have gap closers that could EASLY jump 400 units? nid can already jump 375 + some if toward a "marked" champion not to mention if everyone wants to be buffed they are in a nice little circle for that malphite / Amumu / Anivia / Ziggs ult (to name a few) and certainly within range of standing on some more basic AoE's like varius's W, morg's W, malz's space aids, nasus's AoE ect basically forcing her to be frontline while forcing her team to be clumped up makes her REWORK REALLY BAD
Mostly AD assassins? That would be Yasuo and Zed? Sona barely interacts with them in the first place. Yasuo doesn't really poke at all, so an attrition support doesn't really fit into the team comp. You can still wombocombo with Yasuo with your ultimate, but it's not like the rework changed that. If anything, the rework helped it by making your E allow your team to engage faster. You seem to be missing the point of having the auras persist. Your team doesn't need to group, you need to go to your teammates. If it just buffed allies around you when cast, then Sona would not be as good. But instead your teammates and you can decide if they want to go near each other. It doesn't force clumping. Amumu ult hitting the entire backline will happen if your frontline doesn't block well regardless of any Sona changes. Anivia ult? Please. If Anivia is in the range of your backline, she is literally standing in your frontline. You have a few seconds to move to nearby allies, and for allies to move toward or away from you.
: Why Sona's rework is a failure - A discussion about identity
I don't really think that her identity as attrition/resource management support is gone. Instead, she isn't ONLY about not getting caught and managing your resources. In a poke comp, she stands behind her teammates with her W, providing them with a shield. You have to be more active, you can no longer stand in the complete back of the team mashing WEWEWEWEWEWEWEWEWE until a fight starts. Instead, she moves up behind a poking champion, and uses W right as they fire their poke, healing them a bit, and then blocking some further incoming harassment. She still isn't about clutch heals or shields, she is still about maximizing the value of her abilities and auras. It's not *as* focused on attrition as it used to be, but she is still probably the best sustained healer in the game. Much of Sona was about her invisible power, she provided 20 AD/AP to people in a fight, as well as 10 armor and MR. Moving the auras to smaller but more powerful effects means again, she no longer can be as passive, and her power is much more visible. Look at the teamfight video, you can see her Q ult, then W at the start of the fight to reduce incoming damage, E once the fight is starting to turn to allow allies to chase, Q to buff her allies (and only to buff her allies), and then W again to heal an ally. Her cooldowns are not that significantly increased, it looks to be about 10 seconds instead of 7 on her skills, since in the video she casts her W about 7 seconds after her first. In any case, I would wait to actually play Sona before complaining.
: I do not feel like owning lots of champions is a good thing in ARAM
I have every single champion. It's not too bad. ARAMs are for fun anyways, you join them for constant action and fighting. Obviously for competitive ARAMs (which seems stupid to me), it would be in your advantage to only have the top tier ARAM champions. But half the fun is doing a silly build sometimes. Critphite, SOTD Mundo, AP Trist, etc, and many of these champions are not the greatest ARAM champions. While it's frustrating to play against a stacked team of poke champions, it can be frustrating to get counterpicked in Blind Pick normals. If getting unusual/weaker champions to work doesn't appeal to you, go make one of ARAM smurfs as you suggest. There's nothing preventing you from doing so.
: Of Auras (no tl;dr included)
To me, this seems a bit overly complicated. Auras are simple to understand. People who are near you get the effect. People who are not do not get the effect. Pulses: How much play is actually going to be generated by this item? How effective is mashing my 1 key going to be relative to trying to land my pulses correctly and not off cooldown? If it's passive, it will still make visual clutter as a wave comes out of your champion every X seconds, and you get a whopping 5 armor for being in that. Ebb and Flow makes me think of Medusa's ability in DotA, it's a pretty cool effect. Of course, the existing Ebb and Flow on Nami is a pretty cool ability too, and somewhat similar in that you get more value for the more targets you can get with it. Consider what adding all these passive or active mechanics would do to a new player, especially if they add visual effects. If the effect isn't too meaningful, then they will have difficulty determining whether a line is important or not. If the effect is important, then it's another ability they need to learn. In the Leona example, a new player doesn't want to learn that an item or ability passively increases champions whose names start with A-M's movespeed by 10%, champions with names N-Z's damage by 5%, male champions attack speed by 2% + 1% for each nearby minion, female champions AP by 5 for each second they are near her. In general you can summarize any ability in League in about 2 sentences, and I'm finding a hard time figuring out how you would keep many abilities simple. For the Frozen Heart example, how much of a difference would it really make from the current version to the new version? A support will either be standing in the way already, because they intend to block you, so Frozen Heart is worse there, or they won't be in the front because they are better off peeling from behind, like Janna or Nami. Since the AD will lose 10% attack speed already, all they are providing by standing in the way is ~10-12% attack speed after 4 seconds of being in the way. That's a whole Dagger. In the late game. If I'm supporting, I'm probably not gonna change my positioning over a Frozen Heart. Sure, all these ideas can be added, but is it worth the increased complication and visual clutter for the tiny amount of increased counterplay available? I'd rather stick to simpler. To use the old image from DotA: http://i.imgur.com/htsJv7E.gif Not that I'm against adding counterplay to auras and such, just I don't think that the way currently laid out is worth the increased complication.
Oaklen (NA)
: Proxy, how do you fight it?
In general, I try to give the kill to my jungler. He spends his time coming top to kill the guy, you go away with an assist, a slight gold lead, but your jungler gets big and can crush the rest of the map. Proxying generally turns into giving up a set number of kills in exchange for decreased pressure on the rest of the map. If you don't get jungle help, just keep the lane pushed. Lissandra can Q the wave as it comes, then QW again to clear it. Singed can't effectively proxy starting level 1, after about 2 waves he will be rather low, or run out of mana. This is also another reason for the jungler to start with the lower buff, since a level 3 gank with red buff would almost guarantee a kill. Basically, if you can't hurt him or catch him, ignore him. Take the farm a distance from the turret if it will mess with your last hits. Proxying is only an issue for champions who lack good waveclear early like Ryze or Shen, and even then it only translates into tower damage. Don't give up minions at your turret unless you have a good chance of killing the Singed.
: Matchmaking in Normals seems to have been deteriorating recently
I've noticed that matchmaking does seem to have issues when dealing with a queue of 4 level 30s and a lower level, I've been in games where I queue up with some other diamond players, and get matched vs teams similar to what you described. I've also queued up with someone below level 30 and been matched with a team full of D1/D2 players. While my normal MMR is fairly high, these happen often enough that I would not believe that it is just random chance. Otherwise, I don't exactly know how normal matchmaking works, it seems to sort skill level out by winrate (I keep around a 57% winrate in normals, I know friends who are better have higher winrates, and plenty of people with lower winrates)
: I like this idea. You could also buy minion buffs for specific lanes, to add another level of strategy - buff botlane, then go baron.
Battle Tanks in Warcraft 3 was a moba where creep upgrades were actually a thing. In some ways it worked to end the game (sieges in the game could take well over 40 minutes sometimes...), in other ways it was a little lame that you could convert a gold lead into straight pushing without any gameplay, no outplay moments. In League, it would be very difficult to balance it in a way such that having a gold lead didn't just convert into a victory. Remember when a destroyed inhibitor meant that all minions in all lanes got buffed? Remember how hard it was to come back from losing an inhibitor? That's why I would be against damage or armor buffs to minions. Magic Resist buffs are an interesting idea, but it's better to just put in on an item. Like Banner of Command.
Sunfield (EUNE)
: Teams in LCS switching lanes do nothing good for the sake of an interesting game, as long as its the same worn out scenario - who can clear the wave better. There are not enough tools to play the pushing game in order to allow multiple approaches and tactics to getting inside enemy base. There are no ways of influencing minion waves other than killing opposing creeps. Little tools, little diversity. And the problem doesnt lie with Athene's, as long as the game doesnt reward you for trying other tactics than to instaclear the wave and wait patiently for the next one, the gameplay will be the same.
Switching lanes is a team trying to avoid the waveclear situation, by appearing in a lane that the other team didn't expect, hitting the tower before the other team can move, and then switching again. Captain boots would mean that the team could move into a new lane even faster, although it would also mean the defending team could respond faster too. It's a little like a surprise split push from the entire team. Generating larger minion waves is another way to influence the wave, although it takes planning, and doesn't appear to the spectators clearly (it's rare to notice someone only killing the ranged creeps, walking away, and that is the reason there's a huge wave toplane when the team switches into top lane). Without Athenes, the game wouldn't have the infinite waveclear courtesy of the midlaners that leads to half of these situations. Or the midlaner would need to build suboptimally to have enough mana to keep spamming spells.
Sunfield (EUNE)
: Turret siedges are the worst part of the game and they are enforced by lack of proper itemization
There are solutions to this, just none that are easy in solo play. It's why you will see some teams in the LCS switch lanes very often, it keeps the other team moving, and may allow a quick pick under the tower. However, with solo queue and the like, it's very hard to get your team to be coordinated enough to switch lanes every other wave and not get picked off themselves. That said, it can still be a little tough to break into the 3rd tower when Baron is down and you end up wasting a few minutes waiting for Baron to respawn. Buffing Captain would be a good way to allow faster rotations, as long as Captain were out of combat only movespeed. Which now that I think about, makes it kind of awesome and useful compared to how it is now. Part of the problem also lies with Athene's, since most midlaners lategame can spam their waveclear without blue buff and not run out of mana to actually fight.
Pyro (EUNE)
: > As far as your problem summary, I don't quite agree with your first point, since supports have ~2-3 different ways they can start, whether it be Doran's Shield, or a choice of 1 or 2 gold items. Many midlaners start Dorans Ring or Flask. Midlane is currently dominated by Athene's-Rabadon's-Void Staff build, which I bewlieve is an issue on its own. There are 2-3 viable starting items, yeah (I'd argue against Doran's), but the first two advanced items are always the same - it's Targons/Frostfang and Sightstone. And those have only one upgrade. Meanwhile in top lane, Giant's Belt and Chain Vest alone have two upgrades, and same goes for Spectre's Cowl. > Man does adding inline images make long posts look ugly if they aren't on the first line :< Oh yeah. Wikia does it really well with item icons. Here you just nee d to put the icons in proper places.
Would you argue that it was a problem when the first 2 support items was always Philo-HoG? The only reason there's differences in builds toplane is that things are much more matchup dependent. You aren't going to build MR vs a Riven, you aren't going to build armor vs Vladimir, and you need to adapt your playstyle and item build to the power spikes of your opponent. Weaker early? Go defensive. Stronger early? Take your offensive items earlier. Also, junglers almost always rush one of 3 jungle items, AD almost always rushes a BF sword item or Blade of the Ruined King. I don't really have a problem with gold item + sightstone being the first purchases, since there's a big difference between how a good player makes use of the items and a bad player. Somewhat like how there's a difference between a good player using Flash, and a bad player using Flash. A good player will make more money off of Frostfang, and will manage Targons better. Can't say much about coin, though. Better players will place more useful wards with Sightstone. Support items are some of the more skill defining items of League, so I don't really have a problem with them. edited for typos
Pyro (EUNE)
: Item Discussion Series - Supports and the CDR Overload
It's fairly common for me to max my CDR out using {{item:3158}}, and as the game goes on, I'll swap them for {{item:3111}} or {{item:3047}}, because there's a point where spending 500 gold for tenacity and MR becomes worth it, or 300 gold for autoattack reduction and armor. For many supports such as {{champion:201}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:267}} etc, their role in fights is largely related to beginning the fight towards the frontline to get a few important skills off, and then running backwards as the enemy frontline threatens to pass them. For them, the most important thing that items do for them is peel. This can be done via buffing allies such as {{item:3069}} {{item:3190}} or slowing enemies, such as {{item:3092}} {{item:3143}} . Assuming a 10% CDR from runes and masteries, you can pick up 3 different items that have 10% CDR. Most commonly it's {{item:3190}}, gold item, and {{item:3222}}. Any other CDR item tends to be fairly weak, even with its CDR {{item:3504}} {{item:3050}} or much better spent on a champion who will use its stats in the case of {{item:3110}} . The one support item I can see a reasonable argument made for would be {{item:3023}} since it's got a reasonably powerful active, and reasonably attractive stats. However, in most games I'd rather have a bigger MR item in the form of {{item:3102}} . You could also make some argument for making {{item:3065}} an alternative to Banshee's Veil on supports. You tend to be unable to build pure support items and be as effective as you would like to be in fights, since support items typically provide only moderate survivability, and you can be picked off very easily by many burst mages and assassins. A fairly common build to many supports looks something like {{item:3190}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3265}}, {{item:3143}} or {{item:3102}} and one of {{item:3069}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3401}} Swapping out the Banshees or Randuins in the late game is often suicide, since you need the survivability. I think you have reasonable points for redesigning many of the support items, as they end up in a niche that few supports want to go into. However, I do not believe the primary issue with support itemization is due to the CDR making alternative items worse, it's that the alternative items are too specialized for most teamfights. As far as your problem summary, I don't quite agree with your first point, since supports have ~2-3 different ways they can start, whether it be Doran's Shield, or a choice of 1 or 2 gold items. Many midlaners start Dorans Ring or Flask. The second point I've largely addressed. The 3rd point isn't really true, if you need armor on a support you can still build Ninja Tabi, but it does hurt CDR. However, the supports that need the armor are largely burst supports like {{champion:201}} or {{champion:89}} . Supports need a laning armor item as much as fighters need an armor/AD item. I definitely agree with your 4th point. Maybe we will have a CDR item if items get reworked, but right now, some of the support items have much more general use or a more powerful effect than others, and that is a problem that should be addressed before looking at CDR. tl;dr: Some support items are simply stronger than others, that's not a CDR issue. Focus on reworking the weaker support items before looking at CDR. Man does adding inline images make long posts look ugly if they aren't on the first line :<
: It's definitely not fixed, you're right. Might be ~13.5 early, ~14.5 late, but generally, ~14 seems to be a local equilibrium with golem and %hp runes. Trying to keep it general since it's rough doing math during a game.
Given a champion that is optimally tanked (say 2000 HP, 167 armor if we take 400 g = 150 HP and 300 g = 15 armor), you want to spend money equally on armor and health, leading to a ratio of 150 HP per 20 armor, or 7.5. The only reason you get different numbers when you divide health/armor is that armor starts at effectively 100% of your health, at 0 armor you get 100% of your health as EHP. With 1 armor your ratio looks absurd (with 0 it breaks). To get a consistent number you want health/(100 + armor). For a 1 armor tank, the optimal HP is 755, leading to a ratio of 755. As for finding the optimal values of health and armor you want to maximize (x/gold per HP) * (1 + ((C-x)/gold per resist)/100) x = the gold spent on HP C = total 'gold' spent, gold is in quotation marks because this does not account for base stats. Also due to how negative armor works, this will not work for low values of health and armor. To maximize this you can use algebra (you get a downward opening parabola, find the vertex) or calculus (derive to find the vertex). In either case, Wolfram Alpha is your friend. Alternatively you can use an optimally tanked set of numbers, such as the 2000 HP 167 armor above, and just scale it up or down. But keep in mind this only deals with 1 source of damage and doesn't take shields or heals into account, so at some point simply doing math isn't going to solve your tank problems.
: Yes, I was speaking on purely the mathematical relationship between the two initially, and then I went on to state that in practice it doesn't function this way, because of the difference in availability which can be interpreted similar to relative costs differences. And I wonder if flat resistances move it in the direction of stacking more resists. It would depend on the scenario, but assuming you don't sell anything back, you would have to buy armor planning for an eventual late game scenario where you face 40% resist pen. Then it may be that health is still more desirable, all the more so because the flat pen of a Brutalizer is so often built into a Black Cleaver for increased % Pen. This might be relevant because flat pen is primarily early game, but it might be that health is more desirable early game, where it has a larger relative impact on your base health? 180 health from a Ruby Crystal when you only have 500-900 HP might be worth more than, say, 15 armor.
Flat penetration should be handled by building whatever resistance gets penetrated. If you are a tank with 2000 HP and 100 armor, and get attacked by someone with 20 armor penetration, you have EHP of 3600. If you have 1900 HP and 110 armor, despite having EHP of 3990 (versus the 4000) before penetration, you have EHP of 3610. Lategame against 40% penetration, you need to recalculate the maximum, accounting for the fact that each point of armor is only worth 0.6 times as much. You can't neglect armor, but you can account for the penetration, and you will end up finding a maximum that involves building less armor. This goes back to maximizing the problem I wrote above, if you want to account for someone having penetrations, you can do that. There's a point where it's more efficient to build armor than health, and then there's also a point where it is more efficient to build health than armor. Adding flat penetrations makes buying armor more effective for longer, but just like normal, there's a point where buying health is better than buying resistances. Health Potions earlygame also favor buying resistances, although Ignite makes health better.
: Yeah I was wondering about that 40% increase in value making an 80% decrease in the cost. The optimal ratio of health to resist is 1 resist per 1% of your HP. So for a champion with 2000 HP at level 18, they want 20 HP per 1 resist. If you factor in 40% armor pen, it comes out to 33 health per resist. Since most champions achieve around 70 - 80 base resist anyways, ideally you go for around 500 bonus HP before touching resists. In practice, health is not as available as resists and you end up just going mixed resist items like Randuin's and BV for maximum efficiency. I'm not sure the SotAG makes a difference in this rote build order; a key item to begin with would be Warmogs. The cost analysis would need to be redone with the corrections you suggested.
> The optimal ratio of health to resist is 1 resist per 1% of your HP. So for a champion with 2000 HP at level 18, they want 20 HP per 1 resist. If you factor in 40% armor pen, it comes out to 33 health per resist. Since most champions achieve around 70 - 80 base resist anyways, ideally you go for around 500 bonus HP before touching resists. This isn't really true, supposing armor for some reason now cost 500 per 1 armor, and health was 1 gold per HP, then health would easily be more effective than armor, and you would get a significant amount of health before wanting armor. You wouldn't spend 500 gold on 1 armor and 20 gold on health if this were the case. It probably works as a rough guideline, though. What you do see is a maximum point for HP to armor, and then spending gold equally on resistances and armor maximizes EHP against physical damage. Penetrations move the maximum point (by making resistances more expensive for % penetration, or by moving it mostly in the direction of more resistances with flat penetration)
Pyro (EUNE)
: Never Go Full Meta - On the state of the LoL metagame and its effects
As a player who switched over from DotA in 2011, I would say that the meta in DotA trickled down from competitive play. In DotA at the time, every public game was 2-1-2, unless there was a jungler like Enigma or Lycan, and while carries did get most of the farm, it wasn't uncommon to see double support/semicarry in one of the lanes. For that matter, the 0 CS support basically didn't exist in public games. Competitive play had trilanes, 0 CS supports, and all the stuff we come to expect in DotA 2 games. In the 3 years since then, public play has picked up on many parts of the competitive play. For that matter, when I left, roaming was not considered a common viable strategy even in competitive. Players would make it work, similar to how we can occasionally see strange things like Kassadin top work. People seem to forget that League is a much younger game than DotA/DotA 2. Many of the pro players of DotA 2 played back in DotA 1, before League of Legends even existed. DotA has had much more time to settle and balance the game. If anyone remembers times where competitive DotA was rather boring, for example the days of 3 carries and Pit Lord (think wider AoE Ziggs). The games were an immense farm fest while 1 of the carries would hopefully take off and be able to 1v5. There have been times in DotA where certain heroes were very common picks/bans, and it's only more recently that picks have become more widespread. To poke at each of your examples: Different means of acquiring gold: In League, the pressure is placed more on fighting the enemy champion over every creep rather than fighting with attack damage over denying/last hitting the creep. Stacking is a cute way to gain gold or give gold to the carry, and pulling is a cute way to deny part of a wave or generate a push, but it's in some ways a form of PvE in a game that's supposed to be more PvP. Some people prefer stacking and pulling to be part of the game, but it's another mechanic that has to be learned, and it's not an exciting interaction with opponents or allies. Reversed gold efficiency: This is one of the few areas that I think League should follow DotA in, it allows for greater variability of earlygame items, more niche midgame items (since current midgame items in League tend to not have enough of a power spike to warrant buying). It also allows the player to make meaningful choices about inventory space. Do you want another cheap item, or do you want room for wards in the earlygame? It also makes the statstick items worse, so you get items for what unique abilities they provide, not because they provide you with the pile of stats you want. Attributes: They matter in terms of how you build a hero, but the kit determines what sort of hero a Dota hero is. Huskar is still a carry despite being STR based. Windrunner is still a carry or semicarry despite being INT based. Tinker/Storm Spirit are carry and are INT based. Earthshaker is not a tank despite being STR based. Attributes are a suggestion of what items you should build, but not really what role the hero is. While attributes increase the variation between hero builds, it also means that there are about twice as many items that players need to know about. No AP: There's also no MR, you can get more spell resistance in an item, but it's not particularly common. In general you buy health to counter magic damage, and armor and health, just like in League, to counter physical damage. Lategame most damage is physical since carries are the ones dealing damage. It's really a preference whether you like having mages perform a lesser role/utility role in the lategame versus still be strong, albeit not as strong as the ADC. Character limit :( Even in the Starcraft example, Brood War's metagame was not particularly static. Bisu vs Savior showed how innovation could still occur, when everyone thought that PvZ was static and in Zerg's favor, Bisu evened it up with his innovative new build, upsetting arguably the best player at the time with a crushing victory in the finals of a tournament.
: Optimizing Effective Health Math with Spirit of the Ancient Golem Tanks
I would like to point out that % health regeneration doesn't favor health stacking over resistances. 1% of your health every second is 1% of your EHP every second, regardless of if you are a 4000 HP 100 armor tank (40 health is 80 EHP), or a 2000 HP, 300 armor tank (where 20 health is 80 EHP). Flat health regen favors resistances too, as each point of health is worth more if you have higher resistances. You have a mistake in your math when determining the price of health. If 1 point of health costs 2.67 gold, after running your setup you get 2.67/1.4 = 1.9 gold per HP, not 0.5 gold/HP as you mention. And that skews your numbers severely, and changes your findings significantly. EHP is a maximization problem of spending gold, something like maximize: (base HP + (gold spent on HP/gold per HP)) * (1 + (base resistance + (total gold spent - gold spent on hp)/100)) If you know calculus, you can find the maximum point (derive and find where the zero is), or you can simply graph it where gold spent on HP is X. Still, aside from the big change in your numbers, a good post.

Pushover

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