: > [{quoted}](name=KuroCaliber,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AykE0f8E,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-30T18:04:44.042+0000) > > The only things you seem to care about is his position: Ionian Archer guarding a temple, his decision to abandon his post, and the fact that he had a wife and kids. I counter that he did not abandon his task in the old lore, but stayed to protect the temple and only left when the invading force was killed. In the new lore, he still fought against the Noxians invading the temple, his wife was replaced by a male lover, (still provides the same drive I think) and the lover was still mortally wounded. The only key difference was that instead of surrendering to the pit purely out of vengeance, he did so to save his mate's life. He's still a "family man" because Valmar's only family at the time was Kai. HE WAS A FAMILY MAN BECAUSE VARUS...MY FUCKING VARUS HAD A GOD DAMNED FAMILY...CHILDREN YOU ASS HAT. VAURS HAS KIDS... Stop defending this when you know 100% that all of your points are a stretch and you also know full well you are intentionally trolling the people who cared about Varus.
Old Varus _used_ to be a family man, in his original lore. His family was only there to provide a justification for his fall. It didn't particularly affected his personality, not that he actually had one. Never in his in-game lines he mourns his family, and in his lore he never laments their loss. His characterization is only vengeance, and never a family man.
: >Using Magic's Color Wheel in stories that are not about the Magic multiverse is a terrible notion. If riot wants to come up with their own color wheel that's fine. Here's the dirty little secret about the color wheel: Richard Garfield used it as sort of his take on the alignment axis to talk about things like good vs evil and order vs chaos. That's why it works. Because of this I think it's a useful tool in defining a character's goals, personality, and motives because it hits on a lot of topics and questions that can be used to explore a character. White vs Red is a question about order versus chaos. Blue vs Red is logic versus emotion. White vs Black is selflessness vs selfishness. And so on. It's like the normal D&D alignment axis, but how its set up allows it a little more flexibility. Even if it isn't perfect, it's a very quick and easy test to see if you are in the ballpark for a character's personality. That's why I like it.
That is not a secret at all. It is in fact not even completely true. Richard Gardfield's version of the color wheel was a pretty rough flavor-based categorization, based in traditional archetypes of magic (duh). Black magic associated with death, Green with nature and so on. At that time it was not a system of alignment, as only two of the axis adequately matched a personality binary (WB was roughly Good vs Evil, while UR could be interpreted as either Passion vs Intellect, or even Chaos vs Law). The other colors represented conflicts that you can't really call 'personal alignment', like GB's Death vs Life conflict, or weren't even well defined at all, like BG. You can see how, at that time, the colors didn't matched any specific philosophies by looking at cards, particularly legendary creatures, where we find WU barbarian-looking guys, White dragons with demonic appearance and so on. Nowadays, of course, you can use the color wheel as an alignment system (I even made an extension for FATE for that specific purpose last year), but that is more due to the work of Mark Rosewater and the rest of the team in more recent years.
: They are hunters, while giving them a sort of more complex role by having to be sworn protector of the balance one and a rather good guy the other, the extent of Kai pureness doesn't give him dept, only cringyness. Look, I'm all for emotional invested characters, I loved the Galio and Lux short story because it didn't put things over a such high and ethereal standard of ethics that was closely non-human. I even like Kayn cockyness, Aurelion Sol nonchalant badassery and feelings of love towards creation. But those things make sense on those characters.
I am having a hard time grasping exactly what is cringey about Kai's personality, and why you believe that they are absolutely good and pure. Especially since this last post seems to imply that objeting the killing of people without provocation or need (the thing that Varus does and Kai protests over) is a "high and ethereal standard of ethics that is closely non-human". I mean, both Valmar and Kai fought with lethal intent against the Noxian invaders, killing them to defend their homes. They are not incorruptible pure pureness.
: Riot, can you please stop changing lores like this
Using _Magic_'s Color Wheel in stories that are not about the Magic multiverse is a terrible notion. The color wheel is meant to define characters through the boundaries _Magic_ has as a game. Certain characters belong to certain colors according to the philosophies of the five colors. Note that the colors themselves are defined according not only to their narrative resonance but also their mechanical identity. _Magic_ stories take this system and run with it, since it fits the IP as a whole. Trying to apply the color wheel to LoL characters is a shaky proposition at best, as their personalities are not molded according to the color wheel, the factions of Runeterra also don't work with a defined color identity, and each champion powers are not modeled according to their theoretical colors.
: Cause Male Body + Female Body = ? Body. It's only logical that Male Body + Male Body = Male Body. So you don't have to change the in game model to reflect that.
Varus Ashler would not have been particularly well received.
GenoXx (NA)
: You mean the comic? I didn't read it. I have to be motivated to continue to indulge a character and so far Varus has been uninteresting me. So I'll say that that comment was from ignorance, but all together I can't bring my self to read the comic. It's a last appeal attempt and I'm not buying it.
Makes sense. Why leave things like actual lore material get between you and the truth that you know in your heart? That Varus is a worse character than before.
: But wouldn't that be the point of doing a fleshed out update rather then a redo of the character? To give the characters that might not have had much of a personality in the old lore just due to the nature of the way the lore was generally written at the time and flesh them out a bit and give them personality?
Yeah, they could have done that. But CanadianGuyEh's argument is that Riot took away two important characters from Varus lore, and I am pointing out that they weren't important at all, but mere story props. They could have taken the original story and work within its confines, but they choose not to. We can debate the merits of the new direction they took, of course, but measuring it against some deeper, non-existent, idealized version of old Varus lore, is just dishonest feedback.
: Varus didn't lay a finger on Ionians though. Kai and Val are so good and pure that they find the rage to overcome Varus if he kills Shuriman vastaya slaves and mourn at the loss of shuriman soldiers. This kind of things are over the top in terms of narrative, we are not talking about Soraka (or Taric) who indeed would feel deeply grieved by the loss of lives.
Ok, their fellow humans. Those guys literally used to put their bodies on the line to spare normal people of monsters' depredations. Is that incredible that they feel strongly about the loss of human life? How is that 'over the top'? I get that the trope of the emotionally stunted, devoid-of-empathy hero is favored nowadays, but even then...
: The only thing left of the old character is a part of his old story, rather than a part of who he was as a person like they normally keep. The new story might be good, but the precedent this is setting is not a good one for anyone who likes any part of the old lore.
A fair point to make, although late by a good three years. Riot Games was pretty straightforward about this: They will sacrifice old storylines for quality in new content every time.
Rockman (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=e9v63Imv,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-30T17:37:18.852+0000) > > Still doesn't mean that they are really related. > They just see themselves as brother and sister since they are both Darkin, having the same ancient origin. > > Could just be that Varus has a special relationship to her. Maybe they used to wander the world together for example. I feel like you have to try a lot harder to believe that they have a quirk of using brother and sister with multiple people instead of they are actually related.
If you were sealed away from your world, with only a handful of your fellow Darkin, it is not a big reach to believe that you would address them as brothers and sisters.
: Pallas is an awful name for a Darkin, in my opinion.
Rockman (NA)
: Lets break down why the Varus lore change was a dumb idea
Pallas is an awful name for a Darkin, in my opinion.
: It lost a lot of tragic feeling imo. Nor Val nor Kai experienced the loss Old Varus had. Imo they could have left the Darkin Varus as they did with the "Darkin Tragedy" and parallel it with Old Varus loss and tragedy. Val and Kai really seem void characters too (because Rion't can't introduce well so many characters at once and they know it) and it's the first time I want Varus to consume them fast.
The current trend seems to move champions away from having their tragedies happen in their backstories, and more as an ongoing thing. Old Varus had already lost everything, which made him suited for a place at the Institute of War (a narrative setting where change had to be limited), but new Varus character conflict is a present theme, as not only the Darkin is on a quest, but Valmar and Kai continually experience loss and grief as Vaarus slaughters their fellow Ionians.
sopnop (NA)
: I miss some of the old lore, In my opinion {{champion:28}} should have stayed as the most expensive assassin in Runeterra, Riot did alright by most of the other champs they've updated. {{champion:110}} makes me want to cry, I mean the lore for some of the champs was amazing and made me like them that much more, but please RIOT stop doing 180's on champs like {{champion:110}} and {{champion:28}}, it really subtracts on the champ for players like me that have been around for a few years, why not dig into the vaults of unreleased or uncompleted champs that are squirreled away and finish them with the new lore.
I don't know... Jhin covers the International Assassin trope far better than Eve could ever hope to.
: Wait...so they changed Varus from being a badass to a gay dramatic guy?
I am genuinely curious on where do these many emotions reside on old Varus lore. Varus used to have a story that has been done to death: A fridged family, a deal with the devil and a revenge arc. Not only this setup is quite common and unoriginal, but in his case it brought nothing new to the conversation. There was nothing memorable about his family, the story gave no time to empathize with them, nor was Varus' grief explored in any compelling way, and the source of the corruption was not distinctive at all (it was literally a puddle of evil stuff). Maybe what you are trying to say that they could have used the original argument to remake the story, which of course, they could. Most likely they even used it as a starting point. But saying that the couple dozens of paragraphs on Varus old lore were badass is quite a big reach.
: Oh look, and YET AGAIN Riot fails spectacularly on an update and everyone hates it.
Is this about Varus? It has been pretty well received, I think.
: > [{quoted}](name=KuroCaliber,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Jumtus1c,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-11-30T16:44:12.041+0000) > > Honestly, you're saying that because he's gay, he couldn't possibly have the same drive for vengeance as he would for a wife and and kids. Frankly, it didn't make much of a difference to me, he still lost a lover and was consumed by vengeance. It actually proved to me that Riot could handle a character being gay and make it a beautiful story that everyone could appreciate. His wife and kids were hardly established characters (no color story, no mention outside of the beginning, heck they never even spoke to one another that we've seen.) By that logic Kai is much more established than Varus' wife ever was. "Honestly, you're saying that because he's gay, he couldn't possibly have the same drive for vengeance as he would for a wife and and kids." I Never said that. I said that this new lore throws out his wife and child as characters, and that his old lore was based on the fact that he HAD a wife and child, that was the whole point of him becoming what he became. That's why they are so important. Don't twist my words.
Honestly, old Varus' wife and child weren't even characters at all, but rather characterization props. His son never shows any personality to speak of, and I believe his wife was barely mentioned at all. Varus family was really more a tool to be fridged for his grief, than an actual part of the character.
: Galio has new particle on his skins.
There is actually an explanation for why Galio's skins, alongside with those of Warwick, have received recolored particles. It all goes back to the development of **Elementalist Lux**! Due to the needs of this ultimate skin, the Skins team invested in new technology that allowed them to efficiently modify in-game particles (whereas before, those were essentially hand-painted). Because of this change, new skins and champion reworks have been receiving better-matching particles. You can read about it in detail [here](https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/elementalist-lux).
: Lets put it this way, with the retcon, each faction needs their "chapter one" before they can move further. So far we have Bilgwater, the Shadow Isles, Shurima, Targon, and [to a lesser extent] the Freljord.
Bilgewater already has a second installement (*Shadow and Fortune*).
: No. Okay let me ask you this. Why don't companies accept referrals from family members no matter how many give? Because they have a tendency to be heavily biased. In this case, people that love dynamic queue fall into one category: 1. Those that love ranking up based on team dependence Would have added, Those who want to have fun, but that's what normals are for. So it's only normal for dynamic queue lovers to be biased.
Polls are meant to gauge the *opinion* of the participants. That is literally what they are for. Adding artificial restrictions to a poll just doesn't yield an unbiased result, it just creates a shoddy poll that can't even reflect popular opinion. If you believe that Dynamic Queue is unhealthy for the game (and you do), why bother with proposing a poll? Your cause stands to lose if we reduce this problem to a popularity contest.
: Riot of old used to listen. But this was before they had this much money and started being pompous pr****.
* Magma Chamber. * Voice chat. * Native replays. * Support for non 1-1-2-J metas. * Chromas reedemable with IP. * Reworking champions that "are perfectly fine". * Retiring seasonal maps. * The Tribunal. * The IoW retcon. * Cutting back on Dominion support. Riot Games have always prioritized what they believe is the best for the game instead of rushing to please the assumed wants of the playerbase. Rants about Riot "not listening to the players as they did before" have existed since *at least* late Season 1, always accompained by arguments about how they have sold out and how it will surely be their downfall.
: 1 - Lool. Anyone who likes ranked (solo or dynamic) should have above 50 games. This is even below standard. 2 - I want you to think carefully about your second point. Why did riot make premade reports = 1? Lool. In the same vein, we can count premade votes as 1.
Reports are neither grouped by premade, nor are intended to gauge popular opinion. They are just flags that the report system uses to look into a player's behavior. A poll asking players what they want, on the other hand, actually wants to know what is the sentiment of the community. Under your system, if we assume an average party size of three people for premades, players favoring Solo Queue would need to compromise a 26% of the population to win the poll (as the remaining 74% of players that want Dynamic Queue but have their votes slashed by two thirds).
: It was sensible. You just didn't have enough sense (just an observation) to decipher it. Premades range from 1 - 5. Solo players are 1. Now imagine if there are 600 thousand solo players and 400 thousand premades (made up of 3 teammates. Using the median to be fair). That would mean 1.2 million people will vote in favour of Dynamic queue which heavily skews the results. Understand?
"You just don't have enough sense to decipher that the vote of people that agree with me *obviously* needs to have more weight"
Nefas (NA)
: Why did you want to create a legendary skin for Thresh? Why did Thresh need this?
Well, Thresh is a really popular champion with very visually appealing skills. That seems like a pretty solid reason.
: Guys, the solution just bloody hit me and it's an easy one!
Your proposal is heavily biased towards people that favor Solo Queue. * By placing a high number of Ranked games played as a requirement, you are excluding a lot of people that started playing Ranked *as a result* of Dynamic Queue. * Counting people that regularly play as a premade as groups instead of individuals, aside from being a logistical nightmare, would not yield an appropiate counting of the number of people that actually prefers Dynamic Queue.
: Karthus' lore is basically him being fascinated with death ever since he was a child. How is that not "Dark" or "Twisted"? He also believes death is a blessing, while it may not be cold blooded, it's still pretty twisted. He's a lich, but thanks for replying Katey
It is definitely less twisted that Thresh's gig, though. The Chain Warden is downright sadistic and predatory.
: He doesn't need a lot of crit for it to massively improve the damage of his ult. All this is going to do is encourage a crit item or two along with the {{item:3142}} {{item:3071}} he picks up. Oh wait...he already picks up {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} in a lot of cases after his core. Forgot to mention that. All this does is buff his late game with the new build.
While nerfing is early game. Nerfs to a champion's early dominance go a long way to limiting their power at all stages of the game, as their snowball becomes less reliable.
Jofeyy (NA)
: Riot: "We're nerfing {{item:3009}} because they outshine the other boots." "We're buffing {{item:3006}} because not even adcs use them." (what?) "We're buffing {{item:3047}} because they suck right now and {{item:3111}} are only used situationally against mages." So wtf are people wearing right now in the rift Crocks lmao{{champion:58}} ?
Everyone was defaulting to {{item:3009}} .
Helmight (NA)
: @Riot: Can Xerath get the Jhin treatment on his ult?
Aside from the fact that those abilities belong to champions with vastly different playstyles, I would argue they are distinct enough to warrant a unique refund mechanic on each one. Jhin's *Curtain Call* is quite restrictive and unforgiving, due to the fact that it is... * locked in a specific direction, which allows the opponent to exit its killzone by moving to the sides (particularly if they are close to you). * made up by slim linear skillshots, which can be bodyblocked, are easier to dodge if you have vision downwind and way more susceptible to projectile blockers. * limited to single target damage against enemy champions. * geared towards execution given its % of missing health scaling, which limits the scenarios in which can be used optimally. * on a Marksman, a class that revolves primarily around autoattacking from (relatively) short range. Given that, I find adequate that Jhin gets a cooldown refund per unfired bullet, as he will find situations in which remaining on firing stance is just detrimental (full HP Tank blocking the shots, the teamfight moves out of his killzone). Meanwhile, Xerath's *Rite of the Arcane* has the following advantages: * It is not locked to a single direction; Enemies can leave the blast zone only by moving outside its maximum range. * Has a ground-targeting paradigm, meaning that can easily reach the enemy backline with it. * Deals Area of Effect damage. * Can be used for poke, area denial, cleanup or teamfighting for the same potential damage. * Is a complement to a kit that already has very long-range damage. *Rite of the Arcane* is just way more flexible than *Curtain Call*; giving Xerath a partial refund mechanic on it would allow him to extert even more pressure on the map: He would be able to rain arcane fire over the enemy team from a more than a screen away, safe from retaliation and knowing that if the enemy retreats, he can cancel the ultimate to have it available earlier instead of commiting its significant cooldown. It would also make him very strong at minion wave control; something that made Ziggs (another Artillery Mage) so hard to balance in his time.
: Something tells me Riot is going to make a GIRLY skin for Zyra
Could you please explain what you find sexist on Star Guardian Lux? I have heard that sentiment a couple of times, but have a difficult time catching the specific point that is being made.
: Most of it was fine. I still dislike how Xerath is being treated; Jaredan can say that he isn't meant to be fully evil all he wants, Xerath is going full evil overlord right now.
I am not *completely* sure of that. The symbolism of the piece is quite interesting, with Nasus obssesing over how the present-day Shurimans can ony build shoddy imitations of the old glorious days, and Xerath going all Dresden on Vekaura plus personally killing that priest dude. They are still fighting the conflict that was born on old Shurima: Nasus a protector of the empire, and Xerath doing his best to undo it. Also worth noting: Nasus wielding *slave* as a slur against Xerath. The Curator of the Sands is supposedly one of the wisest people of Ancient Shurima, yet he enjoys telling Xerath that being chattel is on the same ballpark as being a traitor. Xerath is not the only monster among the Ascended.
: Is there a Rioter who can explain why there are still no nerfs to the 3 must-have tank items?
Didn't Spirit Visage got a hefty MR nerf in the Preseason patch?
: But she might as well go into 100% denial and be like "LOL NOPE I'M OUTA HERE!" Sure, maybe at some point she will think otherwise, but until then...
: > [{quoted}](name=Pyrodinium,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KaWf6uru,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-31T15:46:39.376+0000) > > Resource allocation, basically. > > Riot's resources are not finite; if the choice is between making joke/death/recall animations for an old champion or making movement/attack/skill animations for an upcoming champion or champion update, the second option will almost always win. > > Joke/death/recall animations are just aesthetic flourishes. There is no reason to prioritize them over those integral to gameplay. I don't think it's as hard as you think it is.
Never said it was hard, really. It's just about priorities. Yeah, of course you *could* make joke/death/recall animations for each old champion that gets a visual update, but the time required for those would be far better spent on essential things for new or updated champions (or even aesthetic animations for new champions).
: Why do I get the feeling that Sivir will just try to get away from this as fast as possible?
I would say that she is clearly struggling to reconcile her previous life with the knowledge of her lineage. I reall doubt she will end this arc as the utilitarian mercenary she once was.
Sharjo (EUW)
>"The caravan master advised against traveling farther south, but Taliyah told her that her family needed her, and there were no more warnings." The whole story is awesome, but this little tidbit goes a long way in illustrating how important family is for Shurimans.
: It's 2016. Tons of old characters got visual updates, yet...
Resource allocation, basically. Riot's resources are not finite; if the choice is between making joke/death/recall animations for an old champion or making movement/attack/skill animations for an upcoming champion or champion update, the second option will almost always win. Joke/death/recall animations are just aesthetic flourishes. There is no reason to prioritize them over those integral to gameplay.
Aazzlano (NA)
: @Meddler Why does Infernal Drake also give +% bonus AD based on base AD?
: Shaco has never been FOTM since his post release nerfs.
Shaco has an inherently *niche* kit. For him to become FOTM, Shaco would need to be far more overtuned that Zed, Fizz, or any of the champions you mention were at their time.
GenoXx (NA)
: How would that put people off? If it was just those two weeks the bios started to come out that would be fine. But to delay one final piece days after the newest champion's lore is released? Haven't a week went by yet? I'm sure people are contempt just after the 5th day of Taliyah's lore release..... It's not like people who ddnt care about lore at first will just start caring...im just saying
It may be more a schedule thing. Riot tends to let each thing have their own time in the spotlight. Right now the new Super Galaxy skins just came out, so it is probable that they would let them at the forefront for a couple of days.
: It only took them what, 2 years? 3 years since Nidalee rework? Not impressed. Why are you downvoting, this red post is dated from 2012 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2798885&page=1#post31414244 "In addition to a new model for both lady and cougar, this update includes new animations and spell effects across both of her forms. We’ll also be upgrading the model and splash art for all of Nidalee’s skins, so you can enjoy the latest fashion, whether you’re a French Maid or a Pharaoh."
More like a couple of months.
Minarde (NA)
: That frightens me a little. The last time I saw "we've discussed it, and there is news," Dominion got retired.
Yep. *"We have decided to not award mastery in ARAM"* seems perfectly within the realm of possibility.
Arcyyy (NA)
: Taliyahs W should be click-drag, not click-pause-click
I am not that sure of that. Primarily because is a delayed ability, and a click-and-drag paradigm might play foul with that (given that the other two similar skills are instant). Also, you would lose the ability of doing a simple knock-up (or would require additional tech *and* muddle the use of click-and-drag skillshots).
: Riot i'm still wating for the champion masteries on TT and ARAM...
Ghostcrawler mentioned recently that there will be news sooner than later. http://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/138436691851
GenoXx (NA)
: So when Illaoi says "If I want something, I take it"....
She specifically says 'something'. Illaoi doesn't seem to regard people as things.
: Well there was a scene where Ekko literally pasted the guy whiling bumping into him but he didn't try to shoot Ekko. So it's not like he would shoot anyone for small inconviences plus Ekko did say his friend wasn't the only who was gonna die tonight... even if it wasn't shown I'm pretty sure it was implied. TBH I also try to be an equalist, ready to put one in anyone who tries to mug me. Also characters can be whatever you want them to be, that's what's cool about fiction. Just be sure your not falsely presenting characters without a good reason, otherwise it sounds like poor storytelling.
Since Riot has confirmed that the man was in fact a killer and not defending himself, I would say that the comic does a good job framing him as the villain.
: > [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8G6Y02l1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-20T03:30:23.541+0000) > > Yorick isn't going to get any new skins until after his rework. Think Sion. sion didnt get a new skin until months later
According to Riot, new skins for reworked champion should come sooner than with Sion (who also got a Legendary skin).
: Meanwhile fucking Red Baron Corki is 1820 RP instead of 520.
Unfortunately there is a catch-22 regarding older Legendary skins. * Those skins are price-protected, so reducing their price would require issuing refunds to the people that already have them *and* leaving a lot of players unhappy with the downgrade. * On the other hand, updating those skins would require a tremendous amount of resources, delaying new skins and champion updates. It would also play foul with price guidelines on some skins.
: Champions Who Kill All 3 Tentacles After Being Tested Should Get An Immunity Timer
I thought it was changed so that killing tentacles no longer removes the trial?
: Still waiting for a simple, straightforward bruiser.
There is probably not enought design space left for such a champion (it would end up being too similar to an existing champion). As you say yourself, their kit would be pretty generic, and Riot has been intentionally moving away from such design. I anything, we can expect existing fighters to be reworked as part of future Roster Updates.
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