Šeriu (EUW)
: Custom Skin community needs your help
i'm going to ignore your first 2 paragraphs as i either A. have covered it in some form in a previous post and B. "that's quite a shit argument" moving onward. you're an egg. Starcraft. not starcraft2. furthermore i'm not talking about the roots of MOBAs. i'm talking about the roots of riot. riot's crew and founder's worked on DoTA and DoTA Allstars(Remake of DoTA predominantly made by Guinsoo).. not just the genre but riot itself is founded on modding. Ryze, Tryndamere, Guinsoo, and Pendragon were modders before riot. i'd go so far as to say all of riot's initial crew were modders(even though most were probably just implementers not creators). deliberately making changes that impacts modders specifically for long term near 0 gain in other regards is hypocritical. League was a successful attempt at remaking their mods of warcraft 3 so they could market them. you misinterpreting the argument does not make it shaky. the key-point is rather, rock-solid. making changes isn't the problem. making changes that the only significant effect is hampering the modding community is. it is hypocritical. it is immoral(based upon riot's own once you account for the roots of riot and league). and as i've covered what i planned to i'm going to move on back to that first paragraph i earlier said i'd ignore. all of valve's games are modifiable to some extent. valve's first game was effectively a fancy quake mod. their source engine is used for just about everything they make it seems. they don't make changes to be counter productive to the modding community. as a publisher they aren't anti-modding either. valve may be massive now but they weren't always and they aren't hypocrites. they've been pro-modding the entire time. i'm not saying riot has to be pro-modding. I'm saying them not being is hypocritical. i'm saying riot is hypocritical. in addition to my previous points above, they also have no problem with taking skins from the custom skin community and using them as concepts for their own skins. the orignial pizza siver was a much lower quality. it's like an acquaintance putting a cookie jar in your house and then you finding you like the cookies but putting a lock on it so only you can have the cookies, and then charging for cookies(including the original acquaintance) you made from modifying(or just baking better i suppose) the acquaintance's recipe. Unless riot is pro modding they are hypocrites. And just to hammer this in one more time, riot is one giant gaping corporate hypocrite. on a side note, i clearly disagree with the OP in that i believe these changes(to the files system) were unduly hostile.
: I don't think any multiplayer game where players are encouraged to get an edge however they can will ever look kindly on mods of any type. They have to make a general policy, and by common sense, you'd make policy to have a system in place to deal with the worst offenders. That means they're generally against any modification of game files for any reason, because skins and VFX can most definitely be used to gain an advantage if used nefareously. Second of all, making changes to the filesystem and engine are large enough projects already, even without taking into account modding. If they are to set in stone a rule of never changing the file hierarchy in order to please a handful of people that would like to mod the game, they are placing a massive limitation to optimizations or refactoring in the future, hence why their stance has so far been "we made changes, deal with it. if you can make it work with it, go ahead, but we won't activelly support your practice", because supporting it wastes a ton of man-hours trying to work around keeping 3rd party mod compatibility intact. large software projects are hell enough as it is, even before trying to accommodate an amorphous group of 3rd party modders and all the overhead that causes, as well as business related conflicts of interest. Comparing to bethesda in general is pretty unfair because: - they have an entire community culture built around modding, removing that from future titles (however much they wish they could) would cause a complete boycott of the games, Just look at the backlash at paid mods - They already have a robust toolkit for modding in their Creation Kit as well as an entire framework for loading packages of game-data (the bsa/esm files) - They're singleplayer games that don't need to consider balance with regards to mods - there's a reason F76 only has non-gameplay impacting mods on the nexus, like retextures or radio songs. If they didn't have the aforementioned framework for mods, there's absolutely no chance any developer would spend the man-hours making and implementing such a system. - Those games cost $60 upfront, whereas League is free and needs to push skins to make a profit. You being able to load your own directly cuts into their bottom line I am very sad that the scene is dying due to business and company decisions, hell, i used custom skins a bunch before i got a job and could buy some official ones, but i cannot fault Riot for taking this course of action, due to my experience in the field and conversation with my game designer friends. EDIT: I know "it's a business decision" is hardly a satisfactory answer, but that's how it usually goes. The more companies grow, the more cold and calculated their decisions become because they have to be. I've felt this shift visceraly couple of weeks back when i moved from a 13-person consultancy company to a 400 employee card payment behemoth. The rules, the fucking rules everywhere, holy shit. Everything is so rigid and slow to process, because it has to be when dealing with that many people. I can only imagine what it's like in a 2500 employee company like Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Crimson Mutt,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2eFTXJw3,comment-id=002d,timestamp=2019-03-14T23:33:45.258+0000) > > I don't think any multiplayer game where players are encouraged to get an edge however they can will ever look kindly on mods of any type. They have to make a general policy, and by common sense, you'd make policy to have a system in place to deal with the worst offenders. That means they're generally against any modification of game files for any reason, because skins and VFX can most definitely be used to gain an advantage if used nefareously. > > Second of all, making changes to the filesystem and engine are large enough projects already, even without taking into account modding. If they are to set in stone a rule of never changing the file hierarchy in order to please a handful of people that would like to mod the game, they are placing a massive limitation to optimizations or refactoring in the future, hence why their stance has so far been "we made changes, deal with it. if you can make it work with it, go ahead, but we won't activelly support your practice", because supporting it wastes a ton of man-hours trying to work around keeping 3rd party mod compatibility intact. > > large software projects are hell enough as it is, even before trying to accommodate an amorphous group of 3rd party modders and all the overhead that causes, as well as business related conflicts of interest. > > Comparing to bethesda in general is pretty unfair because: > - they have an entire community culture built around modding, removing that from future titles (however much they wish they could) would cause a complete boycott of the games, Just look at the backlash at paid mods > - They already have a robust toolkit for modding in their Creation Kit as well as an entire framework for loading packages of game-data (the bsa/esm files) > - They're singleplayer games that don't need to consider balance with regards to mods - there's a reason F76 only has non-gameplay impacting mods on the nexus, like retextures or radio songs. If they didn't have the aforementioned framework for mods, there's absolutely no chance any developer would spend the man-hours making and implementing such a system. > - Those games cost $60 upfront, whereas League is free and needs to push skins to make a profit. You being able to load your own directly cuts into their bottom line > > I am very sad that the scene is dying due to business and company decisions, hell, i used custom skins a bunch before i got a job and could buy some official ones, but i cannot fault Riot for taking this course of action, due to my experience in the field and conversation with my game designer friends. > > EDIT: I know "it's a business decision" is hardly a satisfactory answer, but that's how it usually goes. The more companies grow, the more cold and calculated their decisions become because they have to be. > > I've felt this shift visceraly couple of weeks back when i moved from a 13-person consultancy company to a 400 employee card payment behemoth. The rules, the fucking rules everywhere, holy shit. Everything is so rigid and slow to process, because it has to be when dealing with that many people. I can only imagine what it's like in a 2500 employee company like Riot. riot already has system for the worst offenders. as for the rest of your opinions in regard to how skin modding can be abused, it really can't(they are very restricted on what can and can't be done). see my post which should be somewhere slightly above this one for why(dll, binary mods, and memory injection are very different from the modding this forum is about.) and in regards to riot being compared to bethesda as being unfair. you're fairly right. riot's a major company with only one actual video game. they should be compared to themselves. this game started as a custom map on starcraft and then a mod to warcraft 3. it is a game founded on being a mod, in and of itself. making changes that significantly hamper the modding community is hypocritical as the very roots of their one game is modding. it should be compared to valve and dota2. which is filled with visual effect mods(and massive changes only cause a short break of the mods without a ban hammer as riot is now forcing those that want to use skins to risk.)
Sobx (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=BTM Lane Train,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2eFTXJw3,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2019-03-14T21:28:27.733+0000) > > Riot should reasonably support mods and modders anyways. This has lead already great games and companies to become absolute titans. Minecraft, Anything bethesda does, etc These games have nothing in common with league, how can you even think this is any kind of valid argument in this case? <.<
> [{quoted}](name=Sobx,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2eFTXJw3,comment-id=002c0000,timestamp=2019-03-14T21:54:48.597+0000) > > These games have nothing in common with league, how can you even think this is any kind of valid argument in this case? <.< this game literally started as a custom starcraft map and then a warcraft 3 mod. your arguments are wholeheartedly invalid. furthermore, look at valve and any of their games including dota2. furthermore, you don't appear to understand how restricted the customs skins modding is. it's literally different models. different sprites, and different textures. when things load in/get rendered is handled by the server(it doesn't matter that all the enemies could be 50 stories tall as when they are rendered is handled server side). adding additional things like modified dlls/binaries(which the system checks should check for and replace as it keeps multiple backups and verifies the program on boot) and memory injection which is an entirely different field(this is the one that gets through most anticheat systems and has consistently proven to be a losing battle once a playerbase reaches a certain size(typical combat methods are banning players that perform too well.)) the people that mod in premiums skins aren't the people that buy skins in the first place(the effort necessary to do suchh shows that most of those whom do won't). additionally, the fact copy pasting a premium skin doesn't give access to all effects, without earlier said checked changes to dlls/binaries, further dissuades the modding community from doing such. it used to be a thing. years ago it was grossly ended when riot made their stance harder in regards to dll/binary changes and then again when riot changed their file system(these were both done to reduce scripting). the most recent change will merely slowdown scripting for a short time as some of the scripts would need to be modified for the changes(they likely already are by now). the likely only thing of significance that's been done is further trauma to the skin mod community.
: The problem people are having is not that they want marksmen to not be mandatory, that's great. What they want is for marksmen to be a viable option. And right now, they arguably are not. I've still had some success with marksmen, but bruisers and mages seem to be better options in several cases now. The problem is that they shouldn't be _better_ cases. They should be equivalent. And that sort of balance is hard to do, but Riot is trying it out. Hopefully, we'll get to a point where bottom lane is inhabited by all manner of champion in (relatively) equal parts from multiple champion classes.
> [{quoted}](name=Solidair3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jA0rwrs8,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-07-10T19:19:48.727+0000) > > The problem people are having is not that they want marksmen to not be mandatory, that's great. What they want is for marksmen to be a viable option. And right now, they arguably are not. I've still had some success with marksmen, but bruisers and mages seem to be better options in several cases now. > > The problem is that they shouldn't be _better_ cases. They should be equivalent. And that sort of balance is hard to do, but Riot is trying it out. Hopefully, we'll get to a point where bottom lane is inhabited by all manner of champion in (relatively) equal parts from multiple champion classes. see here's the thing... it's far too early to decide that its not an issue of the marksman players adapting to being balanced as they've been used being a requisite to insure victory(read "broken").
: Moonflair Spellblade should be in Summoner's Rift. Change my mind.
you sir are a genius. and while you're trying to raise this crack ship perhaps you can get riot to revert to late season3 but add in the weird plants. its a nice thought and i would love for it to happen. i seriously doubt they would.
: Does challenging smite work? I guess it’d only reduce his non true damage.
> [{quoted}](name=The Space Cowboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ewAZExGY,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2018-07-09T20:17:24.540+0000) > > Does challenging smite work? I guess it’d only reduce his non true damage. challenging smite reduces all damage
: really we just need to nerf {{item:3153}}, it acts as a Giant Slayer pretty much, no good way to build against it unless you get {{item:3075}} and hope that you'll last long enough that you won't get cleaned up immediately
> [{quoted}](name=WayOfTheOutlaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ewAZExGY,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-07-09T16:33:43.247+0000) > > really we just need to nerf {{item:3153}}, it acts as a Giant Slayer pretty much, no good way to build against it unless you get {{item:3075}} and hope that you'll last long enough that you won't get cleaned up immediately i disagree... buff thornmail for all physical damage instead of attack damage
: Pro play sucks, casual play sucks
late season 3 was best... no one wants to see the juggernaut patch every again outside of darius mains
: That's not trading that is poking. It's different. And you should be able to fight back against a character when they have used up their CC. Against Zoe you can't. She can just fish for E's until she lands one. Zoe isn't fair, the fact that Riot is nerfing her shows it.
poking is trading where the other guy has failed to hit back.. furthermore max rank e has a 14cd. that's 14s to trade with her without fear of it. riot is nerfing her because of outcry not because she is unfair. it is un-fun for those unwilling to learn how she works and how to properly trade against her. her WR in plat+ shows and outside of the first patch with her has shown she is not unfair.
: > they're 3 or 4 AD midlaners, corki(debatable), zed, talon, and yasuo And that in itself is proof that I am right. What you fail to mention (or do not know, depending on how long you play the game) is that we currently have an all-time low of AD champions viable in the midlane. Remember Alex Ich' legendary Kha'Zix? Yep, Kha used to be a midlane champion and he was designed as one aswell - when he was released it was absolutely unthinkable to use him in the jungle - and yet Riot has gone so far to give him bonus damage in the jungle in order to nerf him out of the midlane. All on the request of AP mains of course. Here are some more champions that have been played in midlane at some point Riven (s3) Kha'Zix (s3, s4) Lucian (s7) Tristana (s4/5 I think) Master Yi (same) Lee Sin (s2) Pantheon (always basically as an AD counter, now naturally irrelevant) Gangplank (post rework main mid) Jayce (in several seasons) Kayn (noteworthy that he is a jungler). In addition to that it was a very frequent thing to see champions like J4 or whatever AD was strong at some point to also be played midlane but nowadays that is far from viable as Riot has repeatedly nerfed everything that was frequently used in such strategies (Maw not giving Arpen and thus delaying dmg, old red pot strategy, divine, targeted nerfs to push them out of midlane like kha etc.). AD champions got pushed out of mid more and more while no proper midlane assassins were introduced. Just imagine that: an entire playstyle hasn't gotten any support since the release of Yasuo (and even he will probably migrate to toplane at some point). > your other stat (ban rate) Yep, way to conveniently ignore that the top 14 champions in winrate are all AP. It's also amazing that you count ban rate as the most telling stat considering how it's the most subjective statistic - why would rational people ban a champion with a 4% pickrate and 47% winrate. Zed has (had?) so many OTP's and yet his pickrate is so low that only die-hard mains would play him so why is his winrate still abysmal? > as ADCs are in fking heaven this season (with low cost and high stat items) with them deciding the game the majority of the time. of course those disenfranchised want more armor and lower costs. Yes, ADC's along with supports are and have nearly always been extremely strong - but how is that relevant to mages? They do after all not compete with ADC's in terms of pick or winrate so how is their strength so especially relevant for mages? You could argue just the same way for AD assassins. And by the way, want to know which class doesn't have a single item that protects against physical damage? That's right, it's ad assassins. And no, just because they too deal physical damage doesn't mean that they are somehow profiting from AD itemization, in fact the Last Whisper changes were in favour of ADC's while nerfing assassins. The BC changes were in favour of Juggernauts while nerfing assassins. Lethality got nerfed due to ADC's abusing it. Bork got nerfed in favour of ADC's - several times.
not played does not equal not viable. those numbers are for 1000+ plat+ games Mid lane has always been AP dominated. and in mentioning ad champions being removed from being regular picks mid you seem to forget that even more AP champs have disappeared from it. if it has or had decent AP scaling there's a damn good chance it used to make a somewhat frequent showing in mid. riot just produces more AP mid laners furthermore riot's design strategy has changed from that of the beta and early seasons. champions are now designed or reworked with role in mind. in almost all instances your listed champs were rare and considered off picks(less than 1000+ games in plat+ for a patch) but let me reply more in-depth.. they are also hit by the decreasing likelihood of a mid player having those champs as the player base's growth and champion diversity has increased means that unless something inspires them to pick up a champion they are less and less likely to have that given champ. -riven is still played irregularly in mid and sees some success.. she is not standard -k6 has been balanced under riot's new design platform, his sustain via w was also nerfed to the ground. -lucian still irregularly crops up in mid, that whole carries are somewhat swapable factoid. -tristana was typically an ap mid laner when she was a thing(she had great ap scalings). riot rebalanced her removing this functionality. -against certain champs yi is still viable in mid. standard mobility and cc creep has made this rarer. the fact it takes a fair amount of skill even more so -lee sin has been a victim of balancing and the fact his kit is very difficult to pull when your enemy is hyper aware of it as they are in lane with you. -pantheon is irregular and quite often the mid champs he is tailored for appear top as well as mid. -jayce is still an off meta mid pick with some regularity(every now and then he breaks that 1000+ limit) -extreme mobility champs almost always see some play mid. kayne was designed with jungling in mind and his play in mid is all about the roams. i did not ignore wr. i explicitly used 8.2 (just after 8.3 launched making it an entire patch) and restricted it to plat+ play with over 1000 games. I did not use it as the most defining stat. i pointed out what the state of wr and ban rate both implied. 4/40 should have 1 in the top 10 of both metrics. this is not true. there is an irregular amount in bans. neither wr or ban rate was weighted more than the other. Zed's wr with experience for a given patch is normally stupid high. this means (regularly playing and near exclusive) zed mains are succeeding but the majority playing are not playing him often enough to maintain his high skill cap. he requires you know his kit and his foes. how is it relevant to mages? how is it relevant to mages? you do realize mages are supposed to burst assassins&ADCs right? just like assassins are supposed to burst ADCs&mages. Or how ADCs are supposed to have the highest continuous DPS but not burst? Here's a fun secret, wr in regards to lane match-up is a bit of a lie(it isn't the full picture). that whole it's a team game thing not being a load of smoke. Team comp matters and when your job is throw some cc til you can nuke somebody, being able to nuke your designated targets kind of matters. and i'd hate to break it to you but ad assassins and ad carries both use GA(as in assassins have an intended anti AD item). AD assassin unlike mages are also still capable of bursting the ADCs. AD items being cheaper inherently profits both assassins and ADCs. it doesn't mean it buffs both equally but it does buff both. they're 3 items giving 18% pen, one giving 35%, and another giving up to 24%. alot of ad assassins(not mid restricted) go 1 lifesteal, 3 pen, a GA, and boots with boots getting swapped for a lifesteal, pen, or IE and there's the floating maw to substitute in the place of any other item in the build. BoRK was never intended to be built by most assassins as it's damage numbers have always been focused on auto attackers. the complaining about items(and a stat which didn't used to exist) getting nerfed late when it also had it's distribution changed to increase the early game power is pretty funny. the fact that against the intended targets of assassins the difference is a drop in the pond is also funny. the intended targets of assassins are ADCs&mages, they can still do their job. my metrics and reasoning are both sound and cohesive. yours is not as it implies that bronze is an effective indicator for anything aside from if a champ has some difficulty being used or played against to the unskilled/tilt.
Arammus (EUW)
: it will end like dominion. some day someone at riot will be like "it takes up too much ressources. get rid of it"
i hate this so much. especially cause its true.. take my up-vote for stabbing my metaphorical soul just a little bit more.
sikkl (NA)
: I reported for harassment because i did not think retard was under hate speech, and i didnt know that calling someone a monkey was hate speech either
monkey is a racial slur in regards to black people. most cases of those suffering from retardation suffer from developmental disorders so is considered hate speech in regards to the handicapped. the fact that those terms are almost always being used as insults does not help the matter. if the iq of an individual human is less than 70 they are in fact retarded by definition. many people, those related to the aforementioned retards, or somehow related to those that the term has been used as an insult against, are offended by the term. offended enough to make a big deal of it so if you want to call someone a retard you should call them mentally or developmentally disabled to avoid the hate speech report(you're less likely to be reported for it though punishment is still likely to occur if they do).. this is of course still against the code in game as it is an insult and deliberately toxic behavior so you shouldn't do it unless you want to risk punishment.
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R31W1NG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVAEWPi4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-08T07:57:15.266+0000) > > normals are for fun (and to learn the champion for those unwilling to practice; in the practice tool, custom matches, or just read the wiki page) and not for playing to win. > > you want to play to win, go to ranked. Playing to win is the one common denominator among all players, the game is designed around the idea that both sides will try to win. Otherwise it would be acceptable to just derp around and do random things. > inting is not ok True. > off-meta is not inting Depends on how off meta you go. Picking a champion that is viable in the role that got a little weaker in the current patch is cool. Blatant troll picking despite protesting teammates is still an egregious offense. > playing poorly is not inting True. > giving up is not ok True. > drawing the game out is not giving up What do you mean by drawing a game out? > refusal to surrender is ok As long as there is a reasonable chance of winning, obviously true. > playing to lose is not ok True. > your high blood pressure is not okay How are other people's medical conditions your business? > your attitude is neg Whose? Are you saying a negative attitude is okay? Huh? > *Its just normals* Yeah, so? In normals you can play high or drunk or in other conditions when you are not at your best. You can try new champs, new strategies, alternative itemizations. You can be slightly less careful about timing your game so you don't have to afk in the middle of it. Blatant trolling and nonsensical dirping around is still not okay.
ranked is about winning not norms(games are almost always balanced and built for their ranked evirons). norms are for fun. common denominator refers to math with a denominator shared among the whole of a data set. as the desire to win is not constant to everyone playing it is not an applicable terminology.. off meta is not an egregious offense ever. if i want to go lux jungle, shaco as a bot lane carry, or singed support (hell even soraka jungle) you can report me, but if the bot does ban me riot will undo it. b4 you say they can't or won't they have repeatedly for bans on off-meta. drawing out means to make longer. refusing to surrender is always ok.. The likelihood of recovery means nothing.. its a choice given to each member of the team. the only way someone can learn to play from behind is from being behind. in ranked surrender shouldn't even be an option outside of extremes with feeders or afks. someone not having fun is not grounds to rage over it or deliberately lose. High blood pressure is not ok and the attempt at ad hominem is weak(implying that my position is so low that i can't state a logical truth). an unhealthy condition is an unhealthy condition. who i am is unnecessary as it is a logical truth.(before someone lists a condition that makes a higher than typical blood pressure necessary those mean that the blood pressure is not high for that individual) if i was saying a negative attitude is ok i would have said such. i said "your", as in the attitude in the initial post by the OP was negative. The fact my post was in reply to the initial post makes it abundantly clear. If that was an intent at humour, things like kappa & italics exist for a reason. its norms, as in playing under negative conditions, attempting irregular or unpracticed play styles and itemizations, not giving a fk about winning, are all just fine as long as i'm not breaking the code. if me not finishing the game cause i want to destroy all their inhibs or double back for the unnecessary baron/dragon let's them come back its fine. if i'm not inting, going out of my way to assist them(as in making decisions to dick my team), or behaving poorly in chat it doesn't matter. I can spend 3 minutes setting up or waiting in a bush to gank and it doesn't matter _its just norms_ winning doesn't matter. and i don't know why i wasted my time typing all this as it was all obvious in the discussion of replies following my initial reply to OP or self evident within my first post.
: Thanks for all that info. Since the game where it happened I already have figured out to get Banshee's Veil against her, but I'm not talking about late game, I'm talking about around level 6. Let me try to explain it from my perspective. A week or so ago, I was playing Ahri against Zoe. We were both at or just above lvl 6. She landed E. She chunked me as she is apt to do. Then I went for an engage to punish her for trading, and she just E'd me again point blank. I felt violated. When people trade with you you are supposed to be able to trade back. That's not what it felt like at all.
your either aren't pressuring her enough, or paying enough attention to her animations. e is easy to dodge and especially so if you see the animation. if you don't see the animation is probably do to her using it over a wall and you being near one. trading against a mage has always meant avoiding their skill damage. after avoiding it trade. especially when they have cc. dodging skills is part of trading. after avoiding them trade. just because you feel violated doesn't mean you are. zoe is fair. the metric's show it.
: Yes. I have played against teams that have full AD. I have lost to those teams, and I have won against them. {{item:3071}} makes armor stacking largely irrelevant, as it amplifies physical damage from the entire team against targets. {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} and{{champion:157}} are very effective mid laners who can easily shut the enemy mage down, and if the enemy mage isn't ahead then it's like they don't exist anyway. These champions exist and are popular, while mage junglers might as well not exist and AP top laners aren't all that common either. You aren't going to sit there and tell me that every time someone in mid wants to play Yasuo their top laner will bite the bullet and pick Rumble. That doesn't happen. Damage that does not result in a kill or objective is a waste - This is a team game. If the enemy team is grouped up, so is yours. Softening up the enemy team with your AOE so that your diver or your marksman can finish them off is not a waste of your mana. You do not need to get kills to be useful, damage is still useful when there are FIVE people dealing damage. "Mages are going to want more armor so they can survive long enough to get that 2nd burst". Of course they are going to want that. Just because they want that doesn't mean we should give it to them. Ranged champions are supposed to die. They are supposed to be squishy. If the mages can itemize against assassins then the assassins have even fewer targets to take out. That's not the point of the game. The point is that mages can soften up the enemy team, assassins can kill one target and get out. And that target is usually the mage. And that's fine. Let the mages die if they get caught. They can avoid getting caught, and if they do get caught by burst they can ignore that burst for 2.5 seconds already. They don't need another item to make them even tankier while still dealing damage. If mages genuinely wanted to survive burst they can build {{item:3143}} . But they don't. They want to deal damage. They want to maximize their offensive power. And if you want to maximize your offensive power that comes at the cost of defense. Mages refuse to build any items that do not have AP on them and that is their problem as players. You have an entire set of over 100 items that you can build. Maybe it's not optimal, but building defensively as a carry should never BE the optimal strategy, it should be something you are doing in a bad matchup or because you made a mistake and fell behind. Your goal should always be to maxmize your offense, and staying alive when you have no defensive stats is part of the skill it takes to play a carry. It requires positioning, map awareness, warding, careful use of your skill shots, careful use of your Zhonya's active, etc. We don't need to give mages more raw stats so they are able to fire and forget brainlessly.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhTaAeg7,comment-id=00200001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T15:17:46.100+0000) > > TLDR; > Armor is worthless unless you stack it, and even then its countered for the entire enemy team with a single black cleaver(or the standard amount of lethality and last whisper). > >Proving ignorance by arguing that stuff which leads up to an objective or a kill somehow counters "Damage that does not result in a kill or objective is a waste." Also, split pushing isn't a thing apparently. > > mages shouldn't be able to do their jobs and shouldn't be allowed to fight their targets but i'm going to restrict that to only one of their two targets to try and change the opposition's argument so i can attempt to "win". > > Oh, apparently zhonya's is op and it doesn't matter that GA is objectively superior. > > mages should still build armor. (even though assassins and ADCs both build a massive amount of pen and black cleaver is horrifically common elsewise) > > Mages need to get good _Do you actually take into account the ramifications of what you type and how it forms a cohesive argument or do you just splurge whatever comes to mind? [don't answer, this is rhetorical. Your previous posts in this forum are a shining examples that you don't]_ summarization does not equate to definist. but if i actually failed to not shorten your points to their core, i apologize. You continue to use fallacies(which i've previously pointed out) and have failed to argue against any of the reasons i put forth backing my point aside from arguing that mages shouldn't get a 2nd round of burst because assassins can (get a 2nd round of burst) against them while ignoring that ADCs get continuous burst against them is just WOW. Furthermore "Burst Mages" are supposed to burst ADCs&Assassin. Assassins are supposed to burst ADCs&Mages(currently some also burst tanks). ADCs are supposed to out continuous DPS everyone else and not out burst everyone continuously. // In regards to zhonya's, you do realize that the item is meant for diving and initiating right(survive and pop it then cd out)? it does double duty as a 2.5s i hope i'm in a more favourable position then, but not every mage does or should build it. Zhonya's CD is absurdly high considering the CDs of those its defending against. It's (used to have more ap and a significantly higher amount of armor) stats have also been lowered on multiple occasions while the stats of those its defending against have been raised. (ad/pen has been increased regularly and the values are cheaper)// Beyond that(the second round of burst paragraph) you didn't even attempt to argue against them (my points) aside from a nebulous "i've won and lost against no mage teams" and a restatement of your opinion without supporting reasons. Also, a team without a magic source of damage winning shows either a significant skill difference, a significant comp quality difference, or that mages need to be buffed. mine (the statement saying a team without any magic damage is easily countered with build) was showing your statements were generally flawed, yours is an attempt at such but is actually a potential support for the main premise of this forum(that thing you're arguing against). You're clearly biased and, based on your current rhetoric, hate mages. you're a nunu jungler(snowball and build tank, such skill shot very wow) primarily and a sona (that wide aoe skill shot, such skill) support secondary(most likely due to being autofilled). you don't play the champs that riot calls "Burst Mages" much if at all and you don't lane against them outside of ganking as a jungler and when someone decided to take 1 down bot as a support. and before someone says "ad hominem" i'm pointing out that you lack the experience for us to just assume that unsupported anecdotal evidence by you is valid. You lack supporting statements. I started off as a mage heavy player and have routinely been upset with the way the champs and the itemization have fallen. I feel like LBs rework was hell. I think Lux has far too much burst late game (especially with the ulti cd reduction) but that her e and q are too dodgable(she is one of the few where it's a fair trade). I hated the soraka rework, the removal of DFG, the removal of mana pots, the raise of price and decrease in value of "mage" items while those they fight are regularly empowered, and many other things. I've played mages and for the most part have stopped playing mages. i routinely check them out and am generally disappointed. In general, (i and what appears to be the majority of mage players feel)mages should have more sources of armor if AD&pen is going to continue to be so readily accessible. //that last paragraph was showing you need more evidence and supporting points while showing that i have relevant experience to back mine. your reply will be an obvious claim of being gold while i'm silver. i will of course point out the many metrics such as; duo queueing, more time grinding, and how individual mechanical skil(lol nunu and sona so skilled)l all interfere with rank being an appropriate metric and that rank does not equate to rational, reasonable, well-thought or knowing what you're talking about. rank can be an indicator(higher and higher ranks are indicative of more mastery meaning a greater likelyhood to be effective at recognizing flaws). slow reflexes, shit connection, not putting in the time, poor map awareness, and many others can all lower rank, and in regards to optimization and flaw recognition none of them (aside from not recognizing them) impact those abilities. I recognize that a challenger is almost guaranteed to be better at judging flaws in the balance of the game and how they should be fixed. that does no equate to every challenger, much less you, being a better judge.// Please begin to form sound cohesive arguments. Replying to you is becoming tedious & pointless.
: > [{quoted}](name=R31W1NG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oNIvJ5xG,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-08T12:25:53.087+0000) > > your jungle needs gold to do shit, laners need to learn that a jungler isn't going to do something that isn't going to keep him relevant unless he's out things to do that will keep him relevant.. ganks are risky and laners go out of their way to avoid the jungler taxing so if he doesn't get the kill he's behind time he could have used backing and starting to clear jungle quadrants again. junglers work on a simple cycle, plan what to do after this quadrant clear while clearing, if an option appears viable by the time a clear is done, try it, if not, clear more. if nothing left to clear, back. jungler's want to make profitable plays and take objectives, not do something for near no net gain much less a net cost. > > your other gripes are potentially valid but only in ranked.. > > norms aren't about winning. > ranked is. I jungle plenty. And I would never, ever, ever sit there doing a camp - bar maybe a high-value dragon or a Baron completion - while my team got wiped right next to me. Never. If you claim it's okay to be doing *baby raptors* while mid is ganked *giving up kills* by the enemy jungler right next to you, then please remember this conversation so that I can be sure I dodge any lobby you appear in.
lol. you're tilt. furthermore, you have 4, exactly 4 jungle games in you last 100. you are not a jungler and you do not jungle plenty. in your last 200 you have 10. you are not a jungler and do not jungle plenty. inb4 you say you jungle on an alt. inb4 you fill main with jungle games. inb4 you say you were a jungle main in a previous season. and as for your definist argument changing up the scenario to try and debase mine, if i can get a kill or d the tower and not die, i'll come back to baby raptors later. but if i can't, i won't. if top doesn't communicate well in the initial scenario, i won't. if i do not see a situation that will be more profitable than otherwise i won't. minimizing cost and maximizing gains is the name of the game. In Every Lane. learn that. furthermore learn how junglers actually work so you won't be surprised why they do what they do and why they aren't wasting their time helping you. may i recommend you watch this magnificent series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iko2tqmDpJQ&list=PL9RdXhXESRJzgY_SwHB8T-cZxXljWhQvz and that you also watch some challenger junglers
sikkl (NA)
: I received no warning whatsoever I called someone a brandead monkey, which i completely deserve the ban for, my point was that they should just make a system where they can maybe even give you a list of unacceptable words, because the guy called me a f***ing retard and had nothing done to him, even though i reported him.
did you report him for hate speech, because i'm sure that's what he did to you and both monkey and retard fall under it.. fyi, hate speech is the fastest track to being banned in league.
Arammus (EUW)
: wanna feel like a beta tester for league of legends?
treeline has been garb since they gave towers lasers on rift. this was due to treeline using the same base.. instead of adding in the old tower code under a different set of object names and having treeline call those they added an extra tower. furthermore riot has moved to a general rift and only rift mindset making treeline fall back further.
: > [{quoted}](name=DiG JJ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oNIvJ5xG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-08T07:25:19.313+0000) > > There's a reason people get fucking pissed and angry. It's because of trash teammates that refuse to surrender or play terribly. They have "bad internet" (I've seen so many of these) or they're "sleepy" or whatever excuse. They get greedy, play dumb, make bad plays continuously, don't learn from mistakes, etc. THATS why there so much "toxicity". But this game certainly doesn't corner the market on bad communities so why are you bitching about it? Or anyone for that matter? It's basic internet bad etiquette so get used to it. It's not so much bad play that I mind - it's selfish, greedy, entitled play. It's play where you don't care a bit about your teammates. It's when your jungler is literally sitting there doing the raptor camp as you teleport top-to-mid in a slightly-won-but-hard-fought-lane to save a mid from a 3-gank and you both get wiped in a heartbreaking near miss while he polishes off a baby raptor - then watch as your own lane opponent gets an easy 25 CS and a level and the ability to all-in you at will. It's when your team support picks Zed because he's "so bored", then leaves the lane because he doesn't like it or can't play it and does whatever he wants until he tabs out, and runs into the enemy team, pulling yours behind him, leading them into a pentakill that snowballs over literally 3 other won and hard-fought positions. It's when the teammate you helped get fed early decides he's God and laughs and laughs as he tries to solo them 1v5 and dies and dies because "yolo" until the enemy team snowballs, and pings you back just to spite you as he ignores your own pings, and display-clicks all your summoner spells burned in every engage that he helped lose, just to pretend they were bad decisions on your part because he's now in a bad mood. Every one of these things has happened to me in a game lately - but none of them show up in chat. It's unquestionably toxic and selfish behavior. But it's not reportable or even considered out of line. I don't know what the solution is.
your jungle needs gold to do shit, laners need to learn that a jungler isn't going to do something that isn't going to keep him relevant unless he's out things to do that will keep him relevant.. ganks are risky and laners go out of their way to avoid the jungler taxing so if he doesn't get the kill he's behind time he could have used backing and starting to clear jungle quadrants again. junglers work on a simple cycle, plan what to do after this quadrant clear while clearing, if an option appears viable by the time a clear is done, try it, if not, clear more. if nothing left to clear, back. jungler's want to make profitable plays and take objectives, not do something for near no net gain much less a net cost. your other gripes are potentially valid but only in ranked.. norms aren't about winning. ranked is.
: So many smurfs...even in normals?
smurfs being more common is due to it being the start of the ranked season. new season, new smurfs. it let's them play ranked with and boost their friends. kinda necessary to make a smurf to do a ranked to blank series. also, a lot of people come back at season start..
DiG JJ (NA)
: Well since Riot has been banning/suspending people for really dumb shit of course there's going to be some players who just want to play the game. So they make a new account. Very common more now than before in my experience. Riot's policy has become more draconian and SJW.
its now common to you because you're doing it. who hurt you??
DiG JJ (NA)
: Doesn't make sense. "Play"? So you play games in a vacuum with no hope for anything? Just mindlessly farming for items that you ultimately don't care if they impact your game? You're a true nihilist. I don't think you really understand the psychology behind your incredibly broken reasoning. You're essentially saying "go ahead and play..but don't expect anything". Really? And you don't think that sort of mentality carries over to ranked? You don't think people who play terribly and never apply themselves in normal matches are not going to do the same as soon as they can finally play ranked? Please enlighten me here because your post is so incredibly vague or you're incredibly naive. I think priority should be in trying to win by working as a team. But most people will dismiss working as a team because "its just normals". So at what point R31W1NG does one learn to play as a team with this mentality? Or learn anything at all. That it isn't a priority go ahead and do whatever you feel like just as long as you attempt to "win". I hope I never get you in my games. Point is, normals are practicing, sure, but there's no room for the absurd logic that you're enabling. There's also no room for "acceptance". If my teammate doesn't take it seriously then I've just wasted my time trying to play the game. This isn't chutes and ladders, I cant just decide you're an idiot and find another teammate. I'm stuck for 30-40 minutes with you trying to win, trying to make the outcome of my game not a forgone conclusion while you read your skills in lane.
i specifically say the win mentality is for ranked, but go ahead and ignore the entire conversation to focus on a snippet and then take it out of context to insult me by calling me nihilistic, insinuate i'm naive, and accuse me of being vague.. oh, and insinuating i'm an idiot. also, you used nihilism like it means enjoyment isn't a thing, nihilism doesn't mean that, it means that there is no intrinsic meaning or inherent value be it existential, (life) moral and the many other subjects you can apply the mindset of having no true value to... Nihilism does not mean that one can not feel pleasure. it can mean that pleasure doesn't have a value but unless you're incapable of feeling pleasure psychological conditioning will still apply. Also, it's entirely different to go into ranked with the goal of win then it is to go into norms and give AD janna jungle a try or do a really strange build like ap bruiser zoe. AD janna jungle is stupid fun, gives a fun back up adc but hybrid janna jungle is better. Norms aren't serious and you should take that attitude to ranked. The fact you feel that norms need to be serious, and that everyone should have that mindset, is literally naive. furthermore while there are many ways in which one can have fun, succeeding is one of them. Winning is not the end all be all though, and ranked queues exist so the win mentality can be separate from those not operating under it.. Playing well in general and as a team generally falls under positive reinforcement so it will be learned even by those not actively playing with victory in mind. of course there is a level at which one needs to actually attempt to become better to become better, but traditionally people have little problem behaving differently in different environs. Things as simple as changing clothes can do the trick.. additionally norms are not just for practicing and in fact i've clarified on that. i'd go so far as to say that i've implicitly said norms are almost not for practicing. practice in the practice tool, then bots or customs, then move up to norms before going to ranked. my logic is not absurd and i'm not enabling anything just stating plain truths. leagues is a game first and a sport second so as such exists to relieve stress primarily. again, ranked is separate for a reason. As far as chutes and ladders, or any game really, no one is going to just be okay with you abandoning it after starting. your friends will be less upset about it but if you just up and leave they're still likely to question or hold it against you.. they'll move on though, just like people playing with you in league. and yet again i must reiterate that the win mentality should be constrained to ranked. Your inability to absolve yourself from it is causing you undue stress.
afmghost (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R31W1NG,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tBK8jwE2,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-02-08T08:07:38.843+0000) Exactly. I think it's getting past the point of being ridiculous. I mean I frequently will enter a lobby and have some person expect someone else to dodge because something isn't going their way. So I'm like, look, fucker: if you want to dodge the game yourself, fine. Don't expect ME to cater you and dodge just because you don't like something. I know betting backfilled a role is stressful, but it's a necessary evil to prevent wait times that could last hours. Besides, if I am forced to support a friendly team, I won't care. I do care when they lash out at me and say that I should have dodged. It is 5:30 in the morning, what the hell am I doing with my life?
ehh, i'd rather wait the hour and read while waiting.. used to be i could go and defend the little guys in the tribunal.... but i'd be fine with doing something easily put down while waiting.
: > [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pcTgByYH,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2018-02-07T05:25:12.791+0000) > > If they do go with it, have they rename it to "Hunter's Knife" :O > > The item as-is breaks the jungle item naming convention. But why would you upgrade a Hunter's Machete into a Hunter's Knife? The machete would obviously be better, so it can't be a Hunter's _____. It's gotta be some cool sounding shit like Pathfinder's Knife.
: "Burst mages can't kill assassins or ADCs this season". Ooooh, so I should just ignore the forty {{champion:142}} posts I saw on the front page last week? Demanding nerfs, talking about how much damage she can deal with one skill? I'm pretty sure burst mages are doing just fine right now, it's just that people aren't playing the right burst mages. A mage's goal in team fights SHOULD be dealing as much damage to as many enemy champions as possible. Mage kits are designed to have range, and AOE. Because of this, mages function best when they can catch someone in a choke point or force a fight in the jungle or the river where there isn't a lot of room to get out of the way of their giant AOE spells. This isn't always possible, but that's okay. A team can function just fine without a mage on it at all. It's not a class that is mandated or necessary. Bruisers do not have team fight goals because 'bruiser' is not a term that exists. Bruisers include vanguards, juggernauts, divers, and some skirmishers, all of whom have different goals in mind for team fights. "Mages need to work to hit their targets". Yes. Playing mages is difficult. You know what would make that worse? Giving them more stats. Mid lane is THE skill lane in League. It's where all the players who want to feel like they are being challenged go. The assassin players. The skill shot masters. They dance on the edge of a knife between life and death and they are rewarded with damage and control over team fights for it. You do not need tank stats on a mage.
in regards to zoe https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MkVVxAtb-theres-a-very-specific-reason-that-zoes-sleepy-trouble-bubble-is-a-problem?comment=00000000000000000000 she's new, people raging about the new being op when they haven't figured out how to play against it is the norm. dodge her e, no problem. Way to use the consensus fallacy though. in regards to how you attempt to define burst mages(while repeatedly saying mage *nice definist fallacy*), aoe does not necessitate burst mage, as while many have aoe they do not necessarily focus on aoe burst(akali while being an assassin meets all the standard criteria to be a burst mage). Riot add the codifier of "locking a target down" to the concept of burst mage instead of making a new term, but when the majority of people are saying "burst mage" they don't mean that. in regard to how you say wide aoe damage is all they should care about, damage that does not result in a kill or objective is a waste of mana and CDs. the fact you say a team can function without a mage is very humorous. please attempt to build a team without magic casters and not be defeated by armor op or by doing something stupid for a video like golds vs bronze. attempts including such things as AP ezreal are also non-valid as AP ezreal is a mage. Oh let's not forget that mage in league predates riot special snowflake name subclass system by years, is broader, refers to those that focus on using skills instead of auto attacks, and that "enchanters" are mages as well. bruiser is a term no longer used by riot in game(sometimes it still shows up by rioters in the forums but not often), but that does not mean it doesn't exist. the fact that you said it doesn't exist then proceeded to define it is existing and as a set of terminology is proof that it does and it is ridiculous that you attempted that as an argument ad hominem. *if that was not an attempt of argument ad hominem why was it there at all as it serves no purpose in regards to supporting or making a point?* hell i even loosely broke down their(bruiser) objectives into separate terminology but refused to resort to riot's special snowflake non-standardize terms. mages needing to work to hit their targets is not the summation of the post you were replying to *nice attempt at equivocation*, it's that the cost vs benefit does not properly reward mages when compared to the cost vs benefit of others (especially those of the ADC variety) and that Mages need to either have greater range/faster projectiles, or more armor so they can do they're actual job. and furthermore on your second to last.... statement???? certainly not a point, so it must be a statement. The faker boner is strong in that one.. it's also ad populum and irrelevant conclusion (way to keep that fallacy train chugging along). The micro mechanics, and therefore the skill role is supposed to be that of the ADC as they have to devote their focus to last hitting and dealing with the pressure of having 4 champions in lane before team fighting and during have little to no safety net's of their own in the event of them making a mistake as a trade of for generically being glass cannons(which in gaming refers to something with high dps but low survivability). We used to see more micro mechanics from ADCs then we did from midlane in general with mid having a strong impact in team fights. now we see mid out farming the ADC, having lower KDAs than the past, and the superior ADC deciding the game. a team with a garbage mid, and jungler with a mediocre top should not get such an easy pass due to having the superior ADC. A comparatively amazing player being able to carry is one thing, a slight skill difference in one roll is another.. onto your closing statement, mages can be fixed without armor.. that's certainly true, you could start forcing AD champs to have to pay a reasonable amount for their stats and make damage reduction necessary on them (tabi is not a full damage reduction item and neither is maw or mercurial). hell, runes and items could be removed from the game and the champs be re-balanced for that. But as the current problem for mages is with the roles of assassin and ADC, things which are supposed to be burst down by mages and currently can't as healing and armor pen are too accessible to them, mages are going to want more armor so they can survive long enough to get that 2nd burst...
DiG JJ (NA)
: >and not for playing to win. Good to know, so don't try to win. Got it.
no, it means winning is not the objective. not that winning shouldn't be attempted. just accept that priority one in norms is to play, not to win.
: The window for trading is unreal. You can initiate a trade, but if you do then she has an easier time aiming E at you. And if you instead let her initiate the trades then she can just fish for successful E's and then poke you without repercussion. There is no trading back with her. It's counter-intuitive and violates basic rules of trading.
her E has a 14 CD at max rank, the refund requires it putting a champion asleep. her q has a 4.8s CD at max rank. her q's damage is reduced by making it travel less, reach move or dash and beat the tartarus out of her. rules of trading not violated. the biggest problem while trading properly with her is her built in lich bane without a hard CD that her q can double proc. her full combo of .... *after attempting to right the 2 different ways her full combo can be done and what is usually considered her full combo is done i realize most zoe's don't AA enough(like half of the passive empowered AAs aren't thrown(attempt an AP bruiser build and see if damage has a significant enough fall off with getting in those extra AA??)) and it takes far too much space* is mostly so powerful as the current state of ADCs make it very difficult to justify building MR as anyone but her laner or in the rare event of the enemy stacking AP champs. her unsuccessful e combo of q(summon), AA, q(throw), AA, w, AA, with an ulti and AA somewhere between is significantly less damage. the actual q(throw) is variable as it is dodgeable. the point is when she misses her E she is easily punished. she barely broke positive WR in NA plat+ play during 8.2 for a reason. furthermore {{item:3140}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3194}} all of these items are good against her, that last one is amazing against her TLDR; Just because you haven't figured out how to trade against her doesn't mean she can't be traded against.
Xidphel (NA)
: Just because some random person says it's ok doesn't mean it's ok.
OP was making a joke and pointing out the absurdity of the majority.. though the point that many players would rather have longer queue times in ranked than play with an off-role is something that many have brought up and riot has shown to not care.
: "Its just normals"
normals are for fun (and to learn the champion for those unwilling to practice; in the practice tool, custom matches, or just read the wiki page) and not for playing to win. you want to play to win, go to ranked. inting is not ok off-meta is not inting playing poorly is not inting giving up is not ok drawing the game out is not giving up refusal to surrender is ok playing to lose is not ok your high blood pressure is not okay your attitude is neg *Its just normals*
sikkl (NA)
: Chat Ban System
i think the people want to see curse words not flaming with *r tard* and *f ggot* when they disable said system. Hate speech and cursing are two very different things... Furthermore, you didn't get 14 days of ban out of nowhere. You were warned and continued to do such. I look forward to your coming perma-ban
: So, no defense buffs to AP items?!!!
> Here at riot we see mages feeling like their builds are too expensive especially in comparison to other roles, specifically those of ADCs, Assassins, Tanks, and almost as expensive as the Brutes. We've decided to fix that problem by reducing the item values all around and increasing their cost making it to where now mages can bitch about their builds being more expensive(and less effective) than everyone elses. >We understand this is a nerf to Katarina and Akali in regard to their base damage so look forward to a buff to them in the coming weeks when this update leaves the BPE. -- Jonathan Swift
: Just because something doesn't have like 100 AP on it doesn't mean you can't build it. {{champion:1}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3089}} works.
giving an example with one of the few champs which is both effective as a nuker and tank is not particularly valid for arguing against ap items getting buffed in general or that they can get away with just building tanky. tank lux has not been a thing since the mage item rework years ago
: OH MY GOD CANT HIS STOP? Top 10 most popular champions: [all AP](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond) Top 10 highest winrate champions: [9 AP](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond) Top 10 highest banrate champions: [8 AP](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond/by-banrate) - even Yasuo is only 7th place. It's absolutely amazing, AD midlaners are OBJECTIVELY TRASH. They are dead. They suck. Picking them equals trolling at this point as the only thing they can do is snowball the lane due to being stronger 1v1 and then winning early before getting outscaled - but stopwatch on every lane prevents not only the lvl 6 all-in but also roams botlane etc. I really don't understand why mages constantly compete with ADC's as if they wanted to not only dominate midlane but also the marksman position while champions like Zed are not viable in any lane in the game. But yes, go ahead and buff Zhonyas, having Stopwatch for free and then a -600g reduction on it via mastery is clearly not enough. I bet you would not even see the problem if Zhonyas suddenly had 120 AP without cost increase seeing how bad the mage entitlement has gotten.
you're so called confirmation is ignoring the facts. they're 3 or 4 AD midlaners, corki(debatable), zed, talon, and yasuo saying that in a group of 40 that their only 1 AD in the top 10 is biased and ignoring the fact that in a group of 40 champs to a role with only 4 being AD that there should only be 1 AD in the top 10. your other stat (ban rate) actually shows AD mid laners being too strong and that they reason they don't have a higher win rate is do to them being banned where they would be effective and not banned when they aren't. most of those that are bruisers and most of those whom are AP are in a sorry state this season. as ADCs are in fking heaven this season (with low cost and high stat items) with them deciding the game the majority of the time. of course those disenfranchised want more armor and lower costs.
: Again with this nonsense. Mages have range. They have longer range than marksmen. This is observable in every ability they have. Their abilities have ranges from 650 for battlemages to 1100, 1200 for artillery mages. Mages also have peel. Syndra has Scatter the Weak, Annie has Pyromania, Veigar has Event Horizon, Orianna has Command: Shockwave, Lux has Light Binding, Morgana has Dark Binding, etc. You have range and you have peel. That is your defense. You do not need any more defense. If someone gets ontop of you, like an assassin, they should kill you. It is your fault for allowing that person to get on top of you. If you had high AP from items, tank power from items AND range, you would be the most powerful class in the game, hands down, no one would have any reason to play anything other than mages. So stop asking for tank and you'll stop being disappointed that you aren't receiving it.
range on skill shots vs range on on-click damage is very different. One means the opposing player can dodge it, the other is {{champion:86}}teed. furthermore burst mages can't kill ADCs or assassins this season which is there primary goals in team fights... mage team fight goals: 1. keep the enemy from just breaking the line and use the shorter and more inexpensive CDs to keep them back waiting for a chance to drop someone. 2. kills the ADC(s) & Assassin(s) 3. don't die assassin team fight goals 1. burst someone, preferably ADC or mage so they die 2. get out or apply stasis/GA and zone to then get out. 3. don't die ADC team fight goals 1. don't die 2. whittle down everything to death Support team fight goals 1. keep the ADC from dying 2. keep everyone else from dying Tank team fight goals 1. break the enemy line ??? 3. keep everyone from dying but if someone does need to die it should be you Bruiser team fight goals ??? either they're duelist so no(split push) or read that as assassin, tanks via some BS in their kit, or grossly poor as their item set is expensive and need to go fk-off elsewhere(split push) AD is cheap and stupidly high.. oh mages have AP stats which look higher than ad, guess what mages don't get that damage on their base attack and typically need to work to hit their target(most but with some on-click). ADCs deal a massive amount of damage, ignore the majority of defensive stats as every point in those stats is worth less and less (defensive stat divided by (defensive stat + 100) = damage reduction) and AD's ignore that stat is applied to the end of the previously applied math stat(making it comparatively worth much more), and have a massive amount of health due to all the lifesteal and the rune-based ability vamp(even on on-hits) running around this season. AD champs have better objective control, better and more consistent damage output, and a larger effective health pool as AP champs only have one item to build if they want that {{item:3146}} or the previously mentioned rune which does a hell of a lot more for the likes of {{champion:67}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:11}} and their empowered AA or stupidly low CD ilk than it does most ap champs. AD champs have far higher worth in general with out accounting for it in team fights.
: Nasus is the least interactive champion, but still dominates
pretty easy solution, your top laner needs to stop letting him farm q and punish him for trying. if it doesn't work out hope they made the mistake of being AD outside of the support...
: I get it, I can turn auto-attacks on for myself
set an attack move click button, or as shaco use your q closer to the enemy
: You downvoted my post for this? I wasn't even talking about Paddlestar.
e does no innate damage and serves the purpose of doubling paddlestar's output. without paddlestar it's just a delayed stun where any damage while stunned will remove the debuff. if you get hit by her e hug wave without being in paddlestar's AOE range in regards to them. or just gap close and all in her which will let you hurt her while reducing the range and therefore the damage from the paddlestar. Or just dodge the e. also if she misses her q or her e punish her. Done, that's how you trade against her. she's ap so her aa does nothing(aside from her passive). it's the same core concepts as playing against a syndra or a jayce.
: Can we have another dc protection thing for ranked?
here, https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/XnYQsk4d-the-lp-system-is-in-need-of-a-fix i made this forever ago while tired as fk... probably made some typo's in the formulas but this is what you want. congratz, noone seems to want it. apparently making someone who's gone for 25% of the game lose 25% of the lp that they won or lose an additional 25% of what they lost and giving the team members a reprieve/reward of 25%/4 is somehow an abusable system. (it isn't, like at all. only people that can even try to hold an argument against it are anti-booster and duo boosting is nowhere near as effective as traditional boosting and the booster would have to take a massive lp hit to give the boostee a barely existent lp gain) it's actually a bit more refined than that and i gave tons of options on how it could be implemented including not punished the leavers/feeders... that's right it included punishment for feeders with the same minimal reprieves..... hell once you allow for the /remake system it get's even better because those game are just ignored so people whom never connect wouldn't get fkd by it and the legitimate a$$holes should be the ones almost exclusively(99.x%) punished.
: Tank ekko with glacial augment?
no, riot removed tank ekko from the game like 5 times, and they really ment it most of the times(they even said so)... any build like this is clearly not viable as if it were riot would spend forever destroying the items as opposed to rebalancing ekko to make it not as effective.. This is clearly a poor attempt at reintroducing a meme and everyone reading this forum should feel ashamed and certainly not attempt this build. If this build truly were effective OP would not have posted it. Move Along. {{champion:17}} have people forgotten that teemo for no reason means kappa??????????????????
: > [{quoted}](name=R31W1NG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNnMENZd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-06T17:29:39.407+0000) > > says playing game to relax but is playing ranked.... > > says is grad student but can't do 1 + 1 > > how bout you try no being so tiltable and realize you should play ranked to climb. Ranked isn't for bitching why you can't climb and it isn't for relaxing. Unless of course by relax you mean doing your best to ignore or work past all the things other people do to piss you off in ranked. > > You want to climb in ranked learn to: > A. Be carriable (with any champ) > 1. be untiltable > B. manage how tilt your team is > 1. swing your neck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flUruPbPi8U > a. don't tilt your team or risk aggravating someone already tilt > b. make your team happy via any all encouragement possible > C. know how to carry (with any champ) > D. Start practicing this shit now > 1. Start tilting that neck right now and give me a thumbs up cause i already returned the favor Yeah exactly. This is the sort of person I'd say is too toxic to queue with for me personally. But then again I'm a sensitive person. And I also like consistency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeWzV9sUR_A
: Choose The Better Skin
which champs do you actually play? and there's alot of shitty skins out there so i wouldn't break down either.
: You do realize it's not linear scaling? It follows a binary exponential progression (more specifically, the math is 2^(N+2), where N is the number of 10-minute periods that have passed). Just cutting things in half doesn't exactly work here. The math doesn't exactly work in a way that makes sense to most people without some significant adjustment (the naive adjustment would be to replace N with 0.5*N and switch N to be 5-minute periods, but that gives odd numbers (15 minutes would give 11.313, not the 12 that most people would expect).
[8, 8x3, 8x2x3, 8x2x5, 8x3x5, 8x3x7] ap or [4.8, 4.8x3, 4.8x2x3, 4.8x2x5, 4.8x3x5, 4.8x3x7] ad where exactly is your pretty formula because i appear to be blind?
: Can we do something about these S chests?
(kill participation, KDA, CS, vision score) per specific champion in that game time are the statistics that matter for getting S rank. also perfect kda's have the Death count set to one for the math anyway. kill participation is the worst metric ever as if your team is balls you get a better rating for it and if your team is great you get a shitter one. for game length the cs is low, but you should have still gotten S- at least if you were warding properly. should have gone through about 3 control wards.. also if you're ever in a situation where you have two wards, just throw one down wherever you are if you're questing for S rank. don't do that in a ranked match but then you probably aren't questing for S rank in ranked. oracle's extract isn't valued for shit. pretty much only exists for teemo and won't help you get s rank beyond stopping you from eating shrooms and dieing. ironically playing better isn't key to getting s rank. it's your team playing reasonably and you playing "well" that will get you S. LoL sumo is a great app for measuring those stats in a champion specific manner.
TopperH (EUW)
: Yeah right, now it's feeding 0/6 adc that are oneshotting everyone, I swear this board is getting more and more delusional. I wish I was playing on the same patch as you all where apparently I can one-shot even tanks with just BF sword. Hell, I got an idea, 100% winrate garantied if you pick Vayne top, Twitch jungle, Varus mid, Kogmaw bot and MF support. Cause adc are tank with sustain assassin burst and dps ULTRA INSTINCT OP HURRR DURRR THEE TOOK EEEERRR JUUB.
problem is that even that far behind the game goes on long enough it's static shiv and ie. on alot adc's that's a tank killing combo. add either a lifesteal or a runaan's and the only way that's not just wrecking whomever you want is them having a thornmail on top of other tank items. god forbid the team has a good ad/ap split. that spirit visage or maw may be good at letting you close in on ryze but you're behind the adc's dps now.
: ***
umm, i hate to point this out but you seem to be forgetting that with ravenous hunter even an adc without any built lifesteal still becomes tankier by building damage. they are tankier by the sheer virtue of having more lifesteal(really just broader spell vamp). the fact they're damage is out of control makes them even tankier. nothing quite like watching the 3/12 {{champion:67}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:498}} out performing the rest of her actually pos KDA teammates in a team fight and suddenly being 8/12 with a penta. The fact that the items responsible for this change were just ie and shiv while other people are rocking 3 or 4 full items (including the enemies) makes it worse. even without the burstier they're tankier. the burstier just makes them even more tankier.
: You could solve the troll problem tomorrow
says playing game to relax but is playing ranked.... says is grad student but can't do 1 + 1 how bout you try no being so tiltable and realize you should play ranked to climb. Ranked isn't for bitching why you can't climb and it isn't for relaxing. Unless of course by relax you mean doing your best to ignore or work past all the things other people do to piss you off in ranked. You want to climb in ranked learn to: A. Be carriable (with any champ) 1. be untiltable B. manage how tilt your team is 1. swing your neck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flUruPbPi8U a. don't tilt your team or risk aggravating someone already tilt b. make your team happy via any all encouragement possible C. know how to carry (with any champ) D. Start practicing this shit now 1. Start tilting that neck right now and give me a thumbs up cause i already returned the favor
kradox (NA)
: RIOT System
seriously... i would love to see the match history where you went up against a challenger... pretty sure this falls under pics or it didn't happen.. i mean, when i say i'm in video montages with challenger players(by that i mean they are also in the montages) i have proof.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBxJFRZ78QM though the one where faker and i both were playing garen appears to have disappeared. eh whatever... TLDR: Can we get some proof of your outrageous claim?
: The original purpose of my post wasn't trying to say we don't earn essence fast enough to buy new champions at the same rate we could before (because it has been proven multiple times that BE is gained faster than IP, it just doesn't _feel_ like it because if you play less you don't level up as fast), it was just that it takes a lot longer to buy them because if I choose to raise my mastery it cuts my progress in half. It never felt this way before to me, because the mystery shards were only 1700 IP and more often than not, I gained enough BE to upgrade a mastery shard because it was only 500 BE beforehand. Now, It costs a lot more for no reason.
lol, proof my ass.... you only have better BE gain during events. As you don't earn BE per win(only 50 BE per day) and disenchanting shards only earns you 1/5 the champ cost and now only saves you 2/5 of the champion price you gain BE far slower than you did IP. The system was a disguised fk you to the player base.
: Runes Reforged: World Around Runes
Does anyone at riot ever seriously consider that players don't want the changes they want to make??? Or is it just a "hmm, nope that opinion doesn't actually matter" really feeling like that... reworks should be for balancing not because of a low play rate... and these rune changes are going to force re-balancing and reworks across the board hurting player capability to modify the aspects of a champion to help suit their play style. TLDR Aatrox pre-rework was fine just give him that a buff to make up for the damned BoRK changes... Don't go through with the rune changes please.
: Don't blame other players for the client not letting them connect.
I gave a method to fix the issue, I explained how they are generating problems for others and additionally I, and many others likely, received punishment for them continuing to try and fail at connecting(loss of LP in a 4v5 that they prevented from being remade). The fact is this makes them aware of the issue and until Riot hopefully fixes this(I filed an additional post under Gameplay) they are in fact the most direct party responsible for being unable to /remake as they are the ones bull-headily attempting to reconnect without making any attempts to fix their problem because they don't want to be Leaverbustered. After 90 seconds of actual game with no input from a user Leaverbuster flags them.. They are attempting to prevent this long after they've already been punished with the hammer and it punishes other players. Not once did I blame them for screwing over others(in the initial post) and in fact made it quite clear on what is happening. The initial post clearly explains the issue, fixes, and how they are screwing others. The initial post was not a "hey retards stop trying to reconnect after failing post", but very clearly a "this is what happens when you won't give up on reconnecting and how it is harming others" post. It was clearly a "how to fix being unable to connect(in a fairly common way) post". And here's a fun fact, being ignorant doesn't make you not guilty, it makes you naive. And without further ado, learn to actually read and comprehend as opposed to glimpsing at something and being offended.
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R31W1NG

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