pwc2016 (NA)
: Riot needs to change matchmaking
Ive honestly noticed this aswell. I went on a 7 game winstreak with everyone in the games been pretty ok at least or not feeding too hard then I get one loss followed by bad team after bad team with trolls ect. Its really weird IMO because it starts putting silvers into games with plat 4's. It really should be fixed to stop that.
: "didnt offer counterplay at all" and you have literally removed all your rights to talk about balance. his entire kit was counterplay on a stick. even with aatrox own slow applied even if he put the q exactly in the center of your champion. you could walk out of it.... without boots. also lets address that to land his e was an extremely slow moving skillshot that got thinner so moving to the side was more effective vs this skillshot then every other skillshot in the game. there his active abilities disproven. lets address the R (wow stat buffs that... increased his range and attack speed) "and no damage?" well it was a small burst of 400 which with just 25 armor gets 20% of his damage took away taking it down to an annie q qith no ability power (scary). I should point out here thresh has the lowest level 18 armor with 28 making the damage from his r... the worst part about it... so his R makes autos slightly easyier to land but infinity harder then i dont know... being an adc? and his w is on hit damage that was so low it was never considered using expect for the closest of encounters and just stayed as extra lifesteal (so extreme). also I wont even address his passive because everyone knows that was the worst part about his kit. Also they completely failed at him being a drain tank a draven who rushes BT normally outheals an aatrox today. And the reason the few of us that played Aatrox are so vocal now... is cause the is literally no champ to replace him. "oh no {{champion:1}} was deleted from the game if only the was another land one hard cc then proceed with burst combo character in the game *cough {{champion:103}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:143}} *". where as whats the replacement to aatrox? being {{champion:24}} simply because he has a 3 hit passive and a dash? jax is about cheesing with a stun and bursting your target before the the stun even wears off different to aatrox. ok so excluding that the closest champ is {{champion:36}} and are you really gonna argue mundo is a replace for old aatrox?
the biggest struggle for me so far has been finding anything with that same diver style nothing plays like him that gives that all in feeling you got q;ing into the whole enemy team and fighting out of it.
BradBen (NA)
: I Highly doubt they gonna listen to anyone by this point but i would love the change
I figured it was worth a shot at this point as i personally havent tried until now
iDarkWind (EUW)
: First thing I wanna point out is: Suddently after the rework everyone cares about Aatrox, loved him and even played him on regular basis. The statistics do not show that howeveer, wich is kinda funny. But let's move on. **The new Aatrox is completly different from the old Aatrox.** This is a fact and I won't be denying it when explaining my opinion on this subject. With that said: The Aatrox rework was spectacular, the concept is amazing, the lore is amazing and his overall design is good. This is a very controversial opinion to most of the community in this thread as far as I've read, however, it is my opinion. Old Aatrox could never ever been balanced. If you guys point out that before he got his rework he was meta and was actually a good champion, you guys clearly didn't pay attention: What made him strong before he got reworked was the synergy between {{item:3748}} + {{item:3124}} wich made him too strong for his own good, and he didn't offer counterplay at all. The idea of an AutoAttacker being a drain tank could never be balanced. He would be either useless or extremly strong. If you guys do not believe me, just check his stats over the course of league's history. With that said, Riot didn't had any other option other than removing the playstyle of an AutoAttacker Drain Tank. The idea of changing him to an AD Caster was mostly because they wanted to keep the concept of him being a Drain Tank. They focused on his Drain Tank identity rather than his Auto Attacker identity, and for me it made completly sense. Not only they removed his one dimensional gameplay, but also increased his skill floor by a lot wich allows them to reward players that suceed on him and played him right, while being extremly punished if they missplayed. I've gotta admit though that when Aatrox came right after his rework, I wasn't satisfied with how his Passive / E / R worked back then, but after some changes and with the introduction of his R duration reset, the low cooldown E with one charge only and his passive providing some extra sustain instead of burst damage, to me, Aatrox was extremly fun and a rewarding champion if you punt some time to learn him.
realistically he had a small number of players however the few of us that did play him often really did enjoy everything about the champ (aside from q being stoppable for most of his existence) the thing about new aatrox is he feel too 1 dimensional. you really just build the same few items play the same role each game and just land you 3 q's and its nearly a 100% kill on quishys ect. old aatrox you would change how you built every game based on your laner because of how weak he was you HAD to adapt to even stay in the lane and not hard int. to me that was fun when you had a wall to climb to get the rewards. to the items that made him borderline game breaking prior to them becoming his bread and butter many aatrox players felt he was in a great state with the rework stuff. not quite the old him but still useable and fun. AD caster role he fills now feel more like a riven clone that heals and has broken knees with how poor his mobility is without ulting.
: I made a post very similar to this one earlier today and it was removed for 'violating guidelines' because I posted it into the Gameplay board instead of the Rant board. Hoping yours doesn't get taken down bc this is important.
It's been #1 in the hot tab for a while now so hopefully not
Jaspers (EUW)
: Aatrox in S7 as picked 2 times in pro. Hardly touched in S8 until they added _conqueror_. Even then it was a niche pick with that rune only. Then the rework happened and he's been the highest ban and picked champ since reaching 99% at world S8, and was the most over all S9. Whatever their intention, the champ they changed Aatrox into was far worse for the pro scene than just the auto attacking squishy champ they had before.
The thing about that is it was a balance issue not a remove the champ issue. Kalista is a complete monster in pro play whenever she is a little viable, so she's constantly in the dirt but the champion still exists. And you can play her if you want to and occasionally get wins out of her. There shouldn't have been any reason he didn't just eat some nerfs and stay around. It's laziness on them for that, and stubbornness on the release of new aatrox. They had spent too much time to not drop the rework but they could've reskinned him and made him into another darkin and everyone would have been estatic. To me the whole rework was handled incredibly poorly
: Riot... Allow both playstyles of Aatrox. Selectable like a Skin. But gameplay changes as well. Please! I hope the Devs see this. Riot Support told me to post this on boards.
Or even do something similar to kayn. Where you could break free and become old aatrox or new aatrox depending on the game and how you play
Jaspers (EUW)
: Lethal Tempo Aatrox top was so fun, tryhards took Conqueror. If feels like Riot don't want auto attacking melee champs in the game but are fine with ADC as they are ranged. They even admitted they strayed too far from his idea in his rework in that Wired Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyIZ0q9DvkY Attack speed was his passive was his thing and Riot change him to a drain tank more than old Aatrox ever was.
There are still a bunch of champions that do it. Not all are successful but they're around in the game. Trundle, master Yi, tryndamere,xin zaho are 80% auto attacks and they're allowed to stick around. To me it just seems incredibly unfair for anyone who liked old aatrox, that the justification for his removal was unhealthy game play but other far more toxic kits are still allowed happily buy riot.
: {{champion:5}} The same kit. Auto based, healing, a knockup, a slow, and a burst AOE on ultimate. Also has the same lack of personality in his voice lines.
Kinda but as xin you knock everyone away but the target. Aatrox would dive into them all and you would have to fight through everyone or get killed. That to me felt more like the war God who got the losing sides to fight and win. You felt like you were leading your team and really spearheading into the fights. Currently aatrox is more of a cc bot with damage he doesn't have that same leading war God feel. I agree xin has similarities but the way they play/feel when you go in isn't the same
: Bruh. After that mini rework before the relaunch he was super toxic and lacked counterplay, Riot just let him be like that to let the mains have some fun with him before they got done with the big project. The number of "mains" literally tripled or quadrupled for a reason when the mini rework went through, before that he had like 3-4% playrate then he hit 15%, probably because he became some unholy fusion between the shortly post rework Irelia, Yasuo and Nasus. Shittons of Attackrange compared to the average melee, tons of attackspeed and DPS, tons of sustain. He´d just basically sit there outside enemy range and melt them in seconds while slowing them with botrk/E while also gapclosing with Q as necessary, and lets not forget the revives and whatnot. His state was complete shit to play against, not Akali level but we´re talking some shortly-after-rework-level Irelia here.
I would argue that he was able to do that before as well, beyonder aatrox was in masters with aatrox even before he was minireworked (he was a otp) there was potential to be a snowballing monster in all stages of aatrox if you managed to pull it off. I'll agree at the end he was a bit too strong but that was more with the guinsoos rework and conq. Once those were rebalanced I would say he would've toned down and been less oppressive. The kit never really changed at that point just numbers. (Well aside from how his passive worked and costs to hp)
DrZaorish (EUNE)
: Once it was my favorite champion, now it's dead to me.
Literally have "rage against the dying of the light" tattooed on my pec. He was my favorite part of the game.
Wigmund (EUNE)
: I Like current {{champion:266}} more than the old {{champion:266}} , even though he is now super weak and kinda like ballanced version of {{champion:92}} :P (seriously {{champion:92}} is broken just take it). I don't want to see {{champion:266}} reverted. But i would like to have a champion named _**Boris**_ in the game (just having new {{champion:266}} and old {{champion:266}} at the same time in the game) The problem i have with old one is just he was relying on autoattacking in a way it felt like i was playing another {{champion:23}} (both were unkilable just one stayed with full hp and the second one just didnt want to die)
You can buy grevious wounds for aatrox early on and it would have made it so much harder for him to sustain it off, tryndamere at any stage in the game will click r and not die. No counter play to it besides running away or cc. I agree the old aatrox was very auto dependent but the w mechanic was a nice change up because you had to manage if you wanted damage or healing and could play around with it In a fight, things like tryndamere or Yi are just damage and too straightforward, there's no room for that in sustain or potential for you to win or lose a fight based on how you auto (choosing to try and outheal or out damage like with old aatrox)
: Apparently an edgy melee solo laner is coming out in the future, could be a darkin man with an auto attack oriented playstyle similar to Oldtrox.
The thing about that is if it is similar to aatrox or even is aatrox as some of the fans are hoping, I'd love it but I also have 1.2 million points that I couldn't move over to show how much I enjoy the champion or every skin I bought to support my character
: Yes, they did. That was the part were it was called a "full relaunch VGU". That means they keep the thematic of the champion (god-like being of war and destruction, thrives in battle) and rebuild the kit to a healthy version and/or one that fits that thematic better.
hes more of just an angry guy who really doesnt like people anymore than the "god-like being of war" he was before. he no longer has the elegance to him that he used to where it felt like a "masterwork" its more of just being angry without that feeling of elegance from it. from his quotes to his playstyle its nothing close to the same thematic really. aside from being angry he doesnt feel like a war god especially with the constant nerfs and removals of his features? That doesnt sounds very healthy if they have to nerf and remove things form his kit constantly.
Saranta (NA)
: He’s the most recent and biggest version of this same story
should be used as an example of us fighting back for the champs that were completely removed and just changed with no care for the playerbase use it as a line in the sand type of thing showing that the community doesnt support that kind of change to champions where their identities are removed from the game.
: Yet funny how they never bothered to tell the mains "Your champ is dead, this one will just take its name". Sounds exactly like when Riot said they'd help toplane and instead just make buffs that hurt top more, and buff mid to be the best role in the game, and force jungle to have to be 100% flawless to win the game. Every champ that has gotten reworked has had their kit for a decent part preserved and/or modernized. Aatrox is the only champ to have NONE of that present anymore (and it was only the revive). Hypocrisy is written all over it. And they knew full well that just modernizing the kit would get more people interested in playing him, look at Swain, Akali, and other reworks that happened before Aatrox's. Also, if it was a relaunch, then they should have mentioned it was FIRST THING. Instead they said they were reworking him, and that was it.
exactly reworking the champ as we were told wasnt a removal. this is a complete removal that has been consistently changed nerfed and had things removed from it since the "relaunch rework" a complete failure if it had to be gutted and changed this drastically over and over again. Its honestly a complete slap in the face to everyone who loved the idea of the champion and enjoyed his gameplay.
: The difference is they got changed more than preserving because they FAILED to live up to their concept. Aatrox however (after the mini rework) lived up to it, but because they decided to rework him, it was a blessing too late. The worst part about the rework, is the fact they thought that the only way people would play the champ is if he got remade. Everyone else who had their champ reworked has been able to play their champ one way or another, Aatrox mains are the only mains left out. Its bullshit and hypocritical. Hopefully someone at Riot finally understood after killing the current version 3 times in one year that MAYBE deviating the fuck away from the original concept ISNT always the right thing.
agree with this entirely. he finally was the champion we wanted him to be and then they took him away right at the end becuase they spent too much time on the "rework" at that point they shouldve just released current aatrox as another darkin and called it a day. the style is different enough for that to have passed easily.
: Oh yea, there are some of the removed champions I would personally love to see again, mainly {{champion:6}} I did enjoy old Aatrox more than current Aatrox, but I wont act like I was some die hard Aatrox main, I just played him occasionally and enjoyed it But well, riot admitting they were wrong about removing champions because they didn't want to put the effort into salvaging them (unlike champs such as {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} who were broken before the rework and became more broken afterwards) is very unlikely So as much as I'd love my raspy, bile gargling, dying during idle animations, even cackling, bloated corpse of a champ old Urgot, I'm not getting my hopes up :( P.S. Old Aatrox had more of a war deity to him, didn't care what side you were on, he lived for war itself, new guy is just a pissed of borderline german who wants to kill things
in the aatrox mains discord we call him boris, lol and agree entierly old aatrox had an elegance to him that flowed so cleanly in the fights while this one is much more... clunky in a way and feels unrefined. there are moments that it feels nice but not nearly as nice as the old aatrox
: They really didn't try to keep the playstyle of any of those champs lol {{champion:3}} was a self sustaining poke machine with an all in ult, new Galio melee/tanky fella that has the same ult concept but is worse because they gave him a weaker and less functional version of his old ult on the W {{champion:83}} was a mid range aoe guy who got passive tankiness (which was kinda strong/weird) and basically shut down his opponent because of it, he wasn't a great split pusher or team fighter. Current Urgot is a melee lane bully who just split pushes {{champion:6}} was a long range anti everything basically (which could have been tweaked instead of removing him) who had one of the scariest engages because it was a suppresion and AoE fear/Damage reduction. Current Urgot is a melee range "ranged juggernaut" who just lunges as people and hits W, now with an execute for some reason {{champion:266}} was about self healing and AA's as well and trading HP for more damage, current Aatrox has the same self healing mechanic and has a very similar ult to old Aatrox, but I wouldn't consider them similar either
the other 3 still have hints at the old kits however aatrox is completely devoid of his style but his name no care at all in the champ design to keep the old one just complete new.
Saranta (NA)
: It’s less about how much was kept, than it is about how much Riot cared. I don’t know too much about prerework Sion, but these other three are big reworks with a lot of changes and some callbacks to the previous iteration in the kit {{champion:3}} His Q resembles his old Q and W is a clear allusion to his old ultimate {{champion:83}} kept the ghoul mechanic, otherwise radically changed {{champion:6}} E resembles old ult (swap places with enemy) kept the Q and lock on mechanic These champions were changed quite a bit, unrecognizable to their old versions, but they at least tried to keep in mechanics and playstyles that feel like the old champ. They put in some effort. This is not the case with Aatrox. They wiped him away from the ground up, changing his playstyle drastically, and the only thing kept was the revive which made so little sense in the new kit that removing it made the champ feel better to play.
hes basically a carbon copy of riven but with cc. and at this point with the constant nerfs and changes hes a shell of the rework. its just such little care to anything about the champion in the video it mentions something similar as well about how they preserve for other champs but say nothing for him about preserving anything about him
Saranta (NA)
: Revert Aatrox. {{champion:266}} is not Aatrox. He’s an okay champion, but none of his kit even resembles Aatrox. If Darius came out today and was named Ezreal the whole community would be confused. Why should this character be allowed to steal the name of another?
its literally them releasing a whole new champ and then saying no no this is aatrox trust us its better and not a completely different champion
: My issue with that video is they act like Aatrox was the only champ to ever been remade {{champion:3}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:6}} were treated the same and kept as much as Aatrox did as well
Agreed but its not something that should go unnoticed just because others got the same treatment doesnt mean that any champ that comes across the issue should have to suffer with it too. im just hoping something will come of this to bring back the old playstyle and feel of the champion. I fell in love with the style and concept just for them to completely change the champ into something completely new seems so wrong to me.
Rioter Comments
: are you joking
1mil pts on old aatrox. Its not a joke, its a complete new champ.
Yenn (NA)
: This season has completely neutered skill expression, can we get a new balance team?
As someone who has been losing interest for a while in the game with how its being taken, the thing thats killed it for me is the rework on aatrox. they completely killed the champ meanwhile with irellia they made it still play like irellia dashing around and dealing good auto damage. they completely removed anything fun about old aatrox. how can 2 years of development give us that, a fighter/diver into a jug with low mobility. They at this point don't listen to their community or care. especially with how the meta is right now you're 100% right, the skill isnt there anymore its just getting the meta items and champs and 100-0 anything thats not in meta, truly disappointing .
: they already did listen. riot didnt originally plan an aatrox rework. aatrox mains were unhappy and kept asking for one, since the champion was garbage. then they decided to go along with it and wanted to throw him into the diver update that got canned. aatrox mains still asked for a full kit rework. now they gave him a VGU to match his new abilities and animations. as a juggernaut fan, i love what they did with him, even though i can understand the perspective of a lot of his mains who feel that hes changed too much. but his new kit is very promising when it comes to his viability overall. when it comes to his voiceover and thematics, i can emphasize however. its basically the same thing that happened to {{champion:86}} his calm and reserved demeanour was replaced by a more aggresive one, which i didnt really appreciate. some new parts of his voiceover are great and give him a bit more character depth ("this world needs hope"). but the old garen didnt use to yell as much.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jambajewz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NF8Vh66G,comment-id=00010009,timestamp=2018-06-14T07:08:06.309+0000) > > The people in the community who actually want and like this aren't the same people that played Aatrox before. That's the problem. Based off what, what and where is your proof that they didn't, because I have noticed a lot of these so called "Aatrox mains" haven't played him until the rework got annouced and some of them don't even have a single game with him in ranked. >It's not that the character idea or gameplay pattern are inherently bad, it's that they're SIGNIFICANTLY different from what Aatrox is right now, making him unappealing to downright repulsive to the people who currently play him. If I wanted to play riven, I'd main riven, now a champion I love is becoming riven, a champion I loathe and refuse to play. And that's the problem. That's you, that isn't everyone though, what about the people who did main him, liked his old form, but like his new form more? >The kit's fine, it's interesting ish and seems to function ok, but it's very very different from what he is now, so much so that it's a completely different playstyle. That is fine, I'm not discounting you, I'm asking about the Aatrox mains that like him more with the update however?
one million pt plat OTP, they should have just removed him instead of giving him a rework like this. or released another dakin with this kit. they too eveything about aatrox and got rid of it. personally im quitting the game after the rework, hasnt been fun in a while and them removing my only enjoable champ just ended it for me. However anyone who does main him doesnt like the kit at all. its a poor riven copy IMO
: Why the hell did people stop playing Aatrox?
personally i play the hell outa him climbing through (p3 currently) plat currently with him mainly 59% WR 210 games, hes good but hes very feast or famine. so youll really struggle to do anything if youre behind and with a bad team. hes also not the best duelist even though his kit is meant to be. so as most have said others do what he does better easier. hes fun as hell though when things are going your way when they arent, its a different story
Triple3T (NA)
: Swain: Top lane is Swain, excellent Strategie Vladimir: "I sincerely hope you're pumped for this" Aatrox: Don't listen to what anyone else says. We know Aatrox matters
> [{quoted}](name=Triple3T,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=puhUbAxb,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2017-12-19T05:14:19.044+0000) > > Swain: Top lane is Swain, excellent Strategie > Vladimir: "I sincerely hope you're pumped for this" > Aatrox: Don't listen to what anyone else says. We know Aatrox matters as an aatrox main i was personally attacked by it when i read it lmfao
DJ S0NA (EUW)
: The one and only Support Tier list
Should have another bracket for champs like yorick urgot and aatrox at the very bottom. the true support champs xD

Raging Ashura

Level 251 (NA)
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