: Removing twisted tree line was like dropping a wasp nest on the floor
Infernape (EUW)
: He's designed to be a top laner where he'll be fighting other fighters and tanks. Not to mention his %HP damage can be mitigated with armour. 10% max health as physical damage usually ends up being significantly less because of damage mitigation and the fact that every champion gets armour per level. Now if it was %HP true damage on the other hand...
coughFioracough. Her and Vayne need theirs removed. Unless they are to be designed as ACTUAL tank killers (Fiora is a Duelist, so already thats a red flag. Vayne was the OG assassin adc, so she doesnt need it either), they should either have flat true damage, or % max health damage that isnt true damage.
: % HP damage usually doesn’t matter anyways unless you’re hitting a tank or bruiser. Play a glass cannon carry and he will still kill you just as fast without it in his kit 🤷‍♀️
Terozu (NA)
: Skirmishing is the act of dealing damage while avoiding enemy damage while in a fight, Yasuo is the king of this.
in a minion wave. You would be dumb to fight him in one without having reliable cc.
: You have no innate armor pen, ok. But her core item is Black Cleaver, which gives her.... you guessed it.... armor pen.
Not only that, but she can easily stack it with one Q (because you add the autos in between).
: It's...in the general nerfs she's gotten after that. [She's basically at the most average stats in the game right now](https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build). Iirc that's a bit *under* average playrate and it's obviously just a bit over average winrate. She doesn't need nerfs or buffs. Maybe a power shift at most. Her cancels aren't going and she's clearly balanced with them, since, you know, she has them and is balanced.
Her passive doesnt give off the vibe of "its a part of the kit". Nor the Q base damage, or the R1...
Terozu (NA)
: Translation: "I'm actually not very good with Riven, I just relied on her being super over tuned, so now even though she's about the 10th best top layer at the moment out of like 50, and actually still pretty decent, I'm gonna cry for buffs. I'm also going to say she needs more damage to outskirmish. Even though if you play properly with her skills she's only outmatched in skirmishing by Yasuo." And if she was struggling, which FYI, she isn't, at all, they should boost her shield and mobility, not her damage.
They would do both defensive and offensive buffs if anything. She's Riot's toplane pet.
: > almost impossible to beat if they're ahead There is a difference If a Mordekaiser is ahead, you can't beat him on your own If a Riven is ahead, you can't beat her AND you can't farm AND you can't play safe under your tower AND you can't gank her AND you can't really hope to outscale her in late game
She is quite literally the jack of all trades, but instead of the master of none, its the master of all.
: Because it's no longer a bug. Yeah. 8-9 years ago it was a bug. Riot kept it around because it was interesting. Now, in almost season 10, it's been worked into her kit and she's been balanced around it. Not a "Oh her winrate is weirdly high let's nerf that" kind of balancing around, where Riot patches the bug then has to buff the champion after, but a "Oh, this is a cool thing, let's see how it plays out. Makes her a bit strong so let's nerf her a bit". You know that whole "It's not a bug it's a feature" joke? Yeah. It's not a joke in this case. It's a feature of her kit, and Riot can't get rid of it without a **complete** rework. Regardless of whether or not you or other players consider it a bug, it's been intentionally left in, been balanced around, and is well-acknowledged, so clearly Riot does not see it as a bug on Riven.
Okay, so where in the kit is the power for that allocated? Nowhere. She's kept the original kit's power and has something that makes her even stronger and breaks boundaries (her reign of toplane for half the year). Her passive and R need to be nerfed, in return the animation cancels become an actual part of her kit.
: Because ani cancels never broke her. The only difference was how good the player was on Riven and how stupid the enemy was. Right now she doesn't even tickle even if I manage to get 2 cancels out (let's say on Garen or Renekton). You play around Riven's cooldowns not her ani cancels if you want to counter her.
You mean her non-existent cooldowns? Yeah sure. Keep being Riot's little skin pet like Akali, and gradually degrade more meaning out of toplane.
: She's garbage even with ani cancelling. She deals 0 damage right now. The only good matchups are against Jax and Tryndamere, Fiora, against rest she's unplayable.
Lmfao...Someone's clearly delusional.
: He's right though. It's the NA special. 99% of these boards can't form a coherent argument against Riven or Yasuo. They see the name then go "sCREEEEEEEEEEEEEE GUT THEM IMMEDIATELY" EDIT: I'm not saying she should or should not be buffed. I'm saying that the boards have zero capacity for reason regarding Riven.
Here's your argument: Why the fuck does she still have her animation cancels when the kit shouldn't have them in the first place? They are still bugs none the less and they give her kit more power than it should have.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J9fccG5I,comment-id=000a0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T22:31:57.001+0000) > > He was basically Aatrox. Now hes what Aatrox use to be, and Aatrox has become old morde, a useless pile of shit that any class could do his job but better in every way. What is aatrox like now? On paper he's mad strong early and should snowball put of control with his ability to out trade anything. Apparently that isnt true, but whats wrong with him... Is his early weak? Does he just fall off too hard? How?? Hes been broken for awhile, so Idk how he could possibly be bad
Bad. Passive is non-existent, damage is non-existent, and healing is non-existent. A tank could deadass sit on him and he wont do shit to them lol
: > [{quoted}](name=spookdegrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J9fccG5I,comment-id=000a00010000,timestamp=2019-12-12T20:58:07.583+0000) > > Super weak. He needs items to do any damage. He's basically a farm champ until ceptor and/or Liandries I agree (mostly) He is weak until he gets his items. Conquer allows him to punish mistakes or make short trades which b4 he was just hopeless.
He was basically Aatrox. Now hes what Aatrox use to be, and Aatrox has become old morde, a useless pile of shit that any class could do his job but better in every way.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vE2GEZXw,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T18:25:00.028+0000) > > He doesnt though, with or without one. If you think so, then keep thinking it... Just hope you are not biased.
Hes fucking trash mate, the data dont lie. He sucks at doing what his class does, and his healing is about the most weakest shit in the game. Vlad with just a Deathcap enhance heal could heal more than Aatrox could with all 3 qs hitting a champion.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vE2GEZXw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T15:13:56.430+0000) > > Uh, he does. Grasp is about autos, which the kit rarely does since Q is all the damage. Conq was the only good rune because it gave him stuff he could use. 2nd version of Conq was the only thing really keeping him alive, this version not so much, on top of Riot's thing of just not wanting to give him kit changes he needs. This all doenst mean that he can do well even without keystone.
He doesnt though, with or without one.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=XzMln,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vE2GEZXw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T07:32:24.858+0000) > > Aatrox can't really use any rune well, which is sad. Maybe Grasp or back to Comet. Aatroxt does not really need any rune...
Uh, he does. Grasp is about autos, which the kit rarely does since Q is all the damage. Conq was the only good rune because it gave him stuff he could use. 2nd version of Conq was the only thing really keeping him alive, this version not so much, on top of Riot's thing of just not wanting to give him kit changes he needs.
: Yes, but in almost all cases, reducing the duration of the slow is better than reducing the power of the slow. A slow of even as little as 15% still means the other champion will have a net velocity to catch/kite you. Reducing the duration is always better in 99% of cases.
: Everyone is blaming conq but he has been strong ever since his rework even with the old conq. It is not just the runes and items, his passive and sustain are more than enough to get him through the lanning phase easily and the synergy with items and runes help him more. If they nerf his early game and base stats across, he would be balanced imo.
CyberPhobic (EUNE)
: Ok so can we stop pretending Mordekaiser is fine?
Maybe if they didnt gut Aatrox and not give him buffs there would be a general answer to him. The only answer that works is Noc.
l N G U l (EUNE)
Tomorrow probably. The event starts tomorrow, and his skin is a part of it.
floo (EUW)
: I can tell you about how much fun it is to fight {{champion:75}} with FH and his W
Its only because it slows your MS so much. The W barely does much in terms of AS slow.
: doesn't matter much since she only has to hit you 5 times and the reflected damage isn't enough to kill her. Once she gets going she's nearly always a guaranteed killer unless it's her vs a team.
Thank you. Jesus christ, the amount of people in high elo I have to tell them this is annoying. They think bramble is some god tier uber counter item to Fiora.
: {{item:3110}} +100 armor +20% cooldown reduction +400 mana UNIQUE: Cripple icon Cripples nearby enemies' attack speed by 15% (700 range). ______________________________________________________ Increase passive to 25% Decrease Armor to 80 Add 350-450 HP This item has the niche of countering right click champions like {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} (without ult) {{champion:24}} and most adcs. If people want it to be an option for all tanks then it needs hp added to it.
It honestly doesnt counter them anymore. AS has been raised though the roof. The only time it actually feels like it does something is that if its paired with Malph E.
AhernfVy (NA)
: Too many champions have the counterplay of "just don't be that champion vs them" now
Hey man, dont forget this sack of unbalanced shit countering anything that is melee because Riot overtuned her passive. {{champion:114}}
5050BS (NA)
Like, the worst part is, is that people think Old Aatrox is more brainless than that. There is no skill or anything when it comes down to Trynd's gameplay. He has to be legit broken tier to be a champ. Any time Trynd is relevant something is broken. Lethal Tempo, E cdr, Passive change, and Last Stand are the things allowing him to be a champ, not his kit. lol
5050BS (NA)
: I dont mind Tryn if he didnt have his 'I win" button Does not matter how you out play him. If you dont have a 1.5s+ Stun and he has Ult, he will win.
: Considering lucians winrate and supposed difficulty after they just nerfed ryze and akali, he should be nerfed. But he wont be. look at miss fortune and ashes winrate and pick percents, and no nerfs for then. Riot has made it clear marksmen are allowed to be busted.
"nerfed" Akali didnt get nerfed pal. That minion thing does nothing to stop her from full healthing tanks and squishes alike.
: Also, why buffing her Shield of all the possibilities (Q nerf revert would have make more sense)? That is not what we want and will most likely lead to another nerf later.
If they can prevent top Karma from being a pain in the ass problem, I wouldnt mind the Q revert. This coming from a guy who hated dealing with tank Karma top as it was another version of tank vik aids.
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: Any plans for {{champion:6}} for yet again being gutted thanks to longer range abusers?
He needs natural armor pen, so does Aatrox. Both suffer from the same problem (a bigger problem I see with Urgot is the knee damage being reduced if W is up, its very counter intuitive. I would nerf some of its late game damage and allow it to deal full damage under Purge.)
: > [{quoted}](name=insejuaniwetrust,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ZvsLLMEM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T17:35:33.010+0000) > > They say akali aatrox jayce tham and sejuani buff before worlds and i only see +2 ad in sejuani xD i I mean I remember them talking about actual kit changes, stuff like what Yuumi has on the PBE now, I know one of the things they mentioned was making Akali's R or R1 a targeted ability
I remember that being in the talks for the original mini rework she got (the rework that removed the true stealth). Meanwhile Aatrox needs a massive kit adjustment. He needs the spell heavy aspect to go down, and the auto aspect going up. He needs to be a mix of both. Who gives a shit if it rides on Riven's territory, she was never to have her auto weaving (it was a bug, and still is a bug. It will only be a feature in my eyes when its power is allocated in the kit rather than being a hard power up addition to the kit).
: It's not as easy as it was on his first incarnation. Q focused build with CDR isn't using hard CC as much to zone but instead Q to harass, so she can't effectively feint it. And if Fiora gets aggressive, Ornn can just E out. It isn't as simple to kill as it sounds. It's more or less each knowing when the other is exhausted and has margins for error.
She has lifesteal, and her passive healing procs before wounds reduction of bramble applies when you first go in, so that huge heal goes long ways. Also if a Fiora isnt going Conq right now, they are trolling. It heals for 15% of your damage, including the true damage of the passive, meaning you can sit on a tank all day and they will still die.
Rewt (NA)
: You can instapop an ADC at least. If they misposition you can blow them up. Trynd on the other hand. If he gets a lead it can start 1v5 if your team doesn't have enough CC. I played against one last night. (Our top laner is still learning the game so he is being yoinked into matches with Golds and getting slaughtered when he plays with us.) So my ADC and I are like 10/1/2 and 2/2/10 respectively. The trynd was like 8/1/0. In most cases the super fed Thresh and MF should be able to clap any champ. But in this case I simply didnt have enough CC to keep the trynd off my ADC for 7 seconds. Since you have take out all his HP, Then survive the next 5 seconds of invuln, then the inevitable 1/2 his hp heal. He killed my ADC in 2 right clicks. There is counterplay to an ADC. You can assassinate them. there is an entire class of champions dedicated to killing them. Trynd on the other hand. "Just CC him for 7 seconds 4Head"
Thats the ridiculous part about him. Last Stand lives and breathes Tryndamere like no tomorrow. To think Aatrox got reworked so this schmuck could keep his kit as "unique".
: Mag resist exists for the first 3/4 of a game, and is still better than nothing at late game. Ever face tank a Fizz? I do. All the time. And go 10/0 rather than dying. I wonder how.....
If someone is losing to tank fizz right now, they have to be bad. Shit has been dead ever since Riot retuned his kit. He needs damage to deal damage. If you claim you are D2 and see tank fizz's in D2, then you have to be smoking something because ive never seen a tank fizz in d2 EVER this year.
: Conqueror nerf for Mages are in the wrong direction
The icing on the cake should be that ranged should only gain a stack from spells and not two. If it balances it out you could maybe make the ranged heal scale from 8 to 15 based on level.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clockwork Mouse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M1ER7Trw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-09T05:32:54.035+0000) > > I'd rather if mages were nerfed to the point where they had to hit you many times to hurt you. Their full combo should be enough to lower your HP by half. and then your other 4 team mates fight and in a big team fight it is not just a mage blowing up everyone with just their Q Ryze level 3 e w q and Take healf ur health ... Late game champion btw
Its almost like mana ratios are a bad design if they are allowed to exist with low mr pools.
: Go play Ornn then. If not even Fiora, you know, the 1v1 tank killer, can't outduel him, then that's pretty much all the tank you need.
If a Fiora isnt able to duel an Ornn, they have to be doing a whole lot of shit wrong.
: They literally Just added Armor/resist scaling drakes, nerfed the crap out of Lethality items (by almost half lethality) They also are allowing support tanks to build stat items sooner than they used to.
Cool. Now if only MR would be allowed to exist.
: I'm diamond II :)
: So tryndamere is a braindead right click champion that needs nerfs because of his playrate but numerous beginner friendly adcs with literally 10x his pick rate are fine? Those champions can also see pro play, trynd doesn't. Hes not even good right now.
If he isnt good, then why I see him more in draft ranked picks than Aatrox? The buffs he got made him much easier to play. Just rush 40% CDR and crit and just spin to win from that point on.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pEkEN7x3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-09T19:25:54.806+0000) > > For sure. If we are gonna talk about crit users overperforming, Cait's one of the huge outliers right now. She still has the headshot buffs she got from when crit items got changed the first time. Cait is disgusting, as she tends to be whenever Riot buffs her.
Why her headshot damage is allowed to crit on top of the regular auto crit damage is beyond me.
: By nerfing the modifier to minions by a whole. . . 8%.
And that bonus only comes in when Q is maxed. Thats the better part. They nerfed something that was never the problem lol
: Why would it be nerfed? i don't think its overperforming.
For sure. If we are gonna talk about crit users overperforming, Cait's one of the huge outliers right now. She still has the headshot buffs she got from when crit items got changed the first time.
Infernape (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Th3KindredSpirit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEvgHWUE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-09T06:20:53.859+0000) > > +1, Shen is the only energy champion that gets massive increase in energy costs but unlike any of the other energy using champs, HE HAS NO WAY TO REGAIN ENERGY. Like how come all the others get some way to regain energy but Shen is left alone to suffer. This buff to presence of mind for Shen would be so nice. All energy based champs have the ability to regain it. Akali has her passive and W, Lee has his passive, kennen has it on his passive and E, Zed has his W passive. Shen's is on his E passive.
Correct, what the person should have said is that he doesnt regain enough energy to make up for costs. I do think the easy way to fix that is just upping the energy gain on his E passive towards mid-late game, or reducing costs toward mid-late. Having to use the zone just cucks you of a good chunk of energy ngl.
: She has to auto for her passive, and its unlikely she can kill a tank with just spells. I think bramble will do. But that should be after you get MR first because that passive is magic damage too. If its not gonna be a side lane heavy game, executioner would be better if you just want to ruin Akali’s sustain, since bramble won’t apply if she never attacks you.
And thats where you're wrong. She can easily kill tanks with her eyes closed because MR is a joke stat. She will just spell and auto you to death and all you can do is watch.
Sukishoo (NA)
: But if you want that kit they need the old assets, which they don't have. They'd have to rebuild them all. The old kit had completely different animations attached to each ability.
Okay, and all you do is simply remake them or make new ones (with a new modern version of old Aatrox). I'd rather them spend time on that instead of spending hours on end just letting him rot in soloqueue because he crowds out pro play. Its also not like they got lazy and made some animations incomplete or non-existent. Its also not like he doesn't have a joke line that he should have had that isn't there anymore. They need him to be more auto based (like old Aatrox) than he is right now if they want him to not be a pro play problem, thats the sad fact.
: You do realize that Riot can't rework every single champion at once, right?
Sure, so why couldnt they have just, idk, modernized his old kit? Its pretty simple to do so. The real reason was to let Tryndamere be the only auto heavy based champ with good sustain and being decently unkillable. They wont rework Tryndamere unless the champ falls into release Aatrox levels of trash, which will be never long as runes reforged remains. I hope you didnt forget Warlords release and how Trynd became literal god of the game.
: So he should go back to being a horrible champion that took no skill and that nobody played ok. Like I hate to break this to you but NOBODY LIKE OLD AATROX. Even when he was broken he wasn't played much. Like when he has op his playrate reached around the same playrate as a tank when they're good which means it wasn't good since he is a carry champion and then they're op there playrate is pretty high. Aatrox was a success it give Aatrox actual players.
A champ that doesnt take any skill is Tryndamere. Just simply pray to RNJesus and win lane. Old Aatrox did take skill despite the "no skill" appearance. Rageblade's phantom hit broke him (as it did with anyone who uses it as a melee and as ranged still). Before Rageblade broke, you had to decide when to go in, what W to use, use E at the right time, and press R when you can commit to a kill. Tryndamere on the other hand presses W, presses E, spams autos (that then crit), recast E again, press R if you're low, and keep spamming autos and Es until people are dead or you back off and press Q. Aatrox got reworked so this unhealthy trashbin kept his kit.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uxEOBPnW,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-12-08T21:38:47.015+0000) > > AP items are too good? like wtf, sanguine blade, GA, bloodthirster, death's dance, triforce, BC, steraks, IE, stormrazer; are you seriously going to play this game? The only overtuned AP items are void staff and gunblade. Not really. Rabbadon, Archeangel ( on its own its quite ok tho), Zhonya ( Whats GA against it?),Triforce for 3,7K? Why when we have better version for 3,2K? ( Lich bane), BC an steraks OP? Wait for this: Protobelt for 2,6; Liandry for 3,1; Rod of Ages for 2,6 ( so what that it scales into late when its already OP as soon as you buy it and costs only 2,6?); rylai 2,6 (would be equal to frozen mallet if it costed 3,5 as well...) and last but not least: Morellonomicon which is compared to s9 lethality items only fair ap item of all these listed ap items with cost of 3K gold, but not anymore compared to s10 lethality items when we exclude sanguine blade. Those are the items that I came up with at the drop of the hat... If I wanted I could write whole list of ap items in the game and compare them to AP items... Only thing that justify AP items is that mages are "balanced :D" around them... Have a nice day :-)
Ludens is the real problem that makes Heim good. 90 AP, some mana, 20% cdr, AOE magic damage procs. All you need to keep waves shoved in and obliterate people at the same time.
Garson211 (EUNE)
: Menwile riot "lets nerf his ms -5 and wait a bit" we need much more data to nerf him...
Nah, the new meme is nerfing Akali's waveclear like thats the real problem with her lmfao
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