: > [{quoted}](name=RaidMataBemMort0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rKv6ho79,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T16:24:02.432+0000) > > I really would like to believe that. But, unfortunately, I do not. I trust more in the players than RIOT. I think that 4 players would judge the other player behaviour much better than RIOT's algorithms. Let's be honest, do you think that RIOT has the human resources to investigate every single report? Of course, it does not, and it cannot!! It would be extremely expensive! > All I am saying is that I trust the players' community to evaluate that! > To think that ALL 4 PLAYERS would punish the 5th player unfairly is just sad. It would be something like "4 out of 5 players, on average, would misjudge an act of bad conduct or punish the 5th player on purpose for not agreeing with them." It's unfortunate, but it happens. The current system is set up to protect players from mob reports and to give them a voice against trolling premades. Your vote proposal would actually remove many of those protections.
The current system would still exist. That option would be a plus. In ranked games, you can't be premade as 4, it is rather 2 or 5.
rujitra (NA)
: 1. There's perfectly valid reasons to wait in base. There's a lot of them, in fact. 2. Riot already does punish players who AFK, but the limit is longer than that (I believe it's 4-6 total minutes during the game), as that is the limit Riot has determined will minimize innocent players being punished (but not eliminate) while catching those who are AFKing. The balance has been struck, and it's not likely to change. 3. Riot is not going to lower/raise LP wins/losses. The only valid outcomes of a game are win LP, lose LP, or no change.
May I ask you if you are aware of any policy from RIOT related to "leave the game"? Something like, "if you are not sure if you will be able to play for about 1 hour, do not start a game"?
: walking up with the wave so Singed can't proxy it
Well, if that is the case, and you do not agree with the invading strategy it is perfectly fine! No problem with that, you can walk away from the base and wait in the 2nd or 3rd tower and would not be punished for that. But in my experience, that is not the case in 99% of the time, and it would be as simple as that, walk away from the fountain and you would be fine.
Rioter Comments
: he got banned for 14 days on first offense into a perma ban on second offense if it was troll/int punishments..... flaming get 10 games chat mute into a 25 games one into 14 days ban into perma. riot punishment is hard enough , the problem here is its hard to see the difference between an int/troll and a bad player, heck most players i see that say (omg X is trolling/inting) dont even know what those words means and are just accusing somebody who is having a bad game .
I really would like to believe that. But, unfortunately, I do not. I trust more in the players than RIOT. I think that 4 players would judge the other player behaviour much better than RIOT's algorithms. Let's be honest, do you think that RIOT has the human resources to investigate every single report? Of course, it does not, and it cannot!! It would be extremely expensive! All I am saying is that I trust the players' community to evaluate that! To think that ALL 4 PLAYERS would punish the 5th player unfairly is just sad. It would be something like "4 out of 5 players, on average, would misjudge an act of bad conduct or punish the 5th player on purpose for not agreeing with them."
Baka Red (EUNE)
: Heh, and I don't play ranked, so I forgot that LPs are only in ranked. I guess we are even there. :) However, that doesn't remove the charismatic troll abuse case.
Well, true, It would not be perfect, but I still think it would be better than what we have. And I don't think it is not an easy job to make 4 people agree on something like that. However, to think that at least 1 of the 4 would not have a decent judgement if it was not on purpose... I think that would be sad... But, MANY times we see someone saying, "if you don't give me the red/blue buff I will troll/AFK/feed" or "if you don't do this/that I will troll/AFK/feed" and the player really does that. Just for disagreeing on others' strategy, and it does not matter if we are winning, his/her will was not fulfilled so we "have to lose". If you report this player, I might be wrong, but my feeling is that NOTHING happens. I don't think one should get a few days ban for one offence like that. I think it would be **more reasonable and educative** to lose that match League Points or, if the team loses, perhaps they should lose 2x the value they would normally lose. (Remember that 4 players lost around 20 League Points for that behaviour)
: And it would make it near impossible for a duo to get penalized.
Well, true, but I would say that the chances are you are not trolling a game when you would penalize a friend of yours. It would not be perfect, but I still think it would be better than what we have. And I don't think it is not an easy job to make 4 people agree on something like that. As I said, the player probably really deserves that. To think that at least 1 of the 4 would not have a decent judgement if it was not on purpose... I think that would be sad...
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > If you don't agree with that, I would say there is a big chance you are a toxic player. What a perfect illustration of why your idea is so flawed. All it took for you to label somebody as toxic is that person disagreeing with you. There are more than enough people who confuse disagreement on strategy (or even just bad stats) with trolling. The largest problem, though, is that this will affect people unevenly. If everybody had the same chance to become a false positive under this system it would still feel shitty, but at least it would be balanced out. But that's not the case: - Players who go for less popular strategies (no matter how viable) are more likely to run into people who disagree with them. - Supports that lack any flashy abilities will find it less easy to defend themselves against people claiming they are useless. - High risk, high reward champions run a high risk to get less LP because of "feeding", while their high reward still only nets them regular LP. I hope those are enough to convey my point. If not, I'm sure I can come up with more. And just so we are clear here: I'm not even talking about people abusing the system. I'm talking about situations where people might actually feel *justified* in their use of the system. The chance that people may intentionally screw over people they believe to be innocent is a whole problem of its own.
I think there is a difference between "you are" or "a big chance you are". But anyway, my apologies.
: Losing 2 LP seems fine for a one minute afk. More is just stupid. Games crash. Internet fucks up. Anything can happen.
Fair. But if you see the exception I made, it is the case the player was unable to connect.
: > [{quoted}](name=RaidMataBemMort0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=E5TIKEiN,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-05-20T08:22:11.766+0000) > > That might be the case in silver. The first 20s are nothing because you don't know how to use the advantage you get in the early game. You guys are focused on kills, not game objectives/win. Try to give a Plat+ a First Blood and a red buff in the game start to see what happens. Not really. It's like you folks forget what smurf accounts are the moment you come into the boards. Discounting opinions solely based on rank is a foolish thing to do. That said, if you want verification from a Master level player just watch any master+ streamer then. They come back from early invades all the time. To say you lose the game in the first 20 sec is ludicrous.
Again, it is possible to come back from an early invade, HELL YES, IT IS JUST NOT FAIR to start a game in disadvantage just because someone does not RESPECT the other players time and will to win, staying AFK for "good reasons"
Baka Red (EUNE)
: Even though I only play premade myself, I must say that your suggestion would give premade 4 member teams too big harassment/trolling tool against the one who isn't part of their group. And even without a premade group, people could be persuaded by a charismatic troll to punish a person who tries his best but is just unlucky. Sorry but nope, your suggestion isn't any good.
True, I forgot about that, I just play ranked games, where you cannot party as 4. That should apply just for ranked matches.
: Get over it, if you're "losing games" over what happens in the first 20 seconds you are not good enough to say you deserve the win otherwise
That might be the case in silver. The first 20s are nothing because you don't know how to use the advantage you get in the early game. You guys are focused on kills, not game objectives/win. Try to give a Plat+ a First Blood and a red buff in the game start to see what happens.
zPOOPz (NA)
: You do know that people can think it's not okay to start a ranked game at 1:30 and still be against your outlandish idea right? Besides, you set your target at 20 seconds, what is this 1:30 business?
Yes, I think the target is 20s, to be honest, I would like it to be 15s, when the gate opens. Usually, late people get 1 min or more to come back after the game started, so that is where the 1:30 comes from. They are not late for 20s but for 1 min or more, still, the target should not be 1 min but 15 - 20s. If you think that 1 min is nothing, why not spend this time before or during the queue? It takes 2 - 3 min to find a game, use that time, but being on time to accept the game seems to be more important than being on time to play it.
Baa Woof (EUW)
: I'm quite upset that this kind of behavior is not punished.
I got one or two of that myself. I will never open a ticket again for that. That is how I read the response you received: "I am sorry you have encountered a player who was intentionally dying and ruined the game." We don't give a ***** about that, but I have to answer your ticket and say that we do. "I want to ensure that your reports matter and i am gonna investigate your case" We want you to feel important and think we care about that, but we don't. "Unfortunately i will not be able to confirm the outcome of the investigation but actions would be taken if its necessary." Since we are doing nothing about that we cannot tell you. So we will say that we can't let you know the outcome and if you insist we may say that it is due to "privacy policies" (if we answer your reply). That is my feeling about how Riot cares about its players. To ban players is just not good for business! And remember, RIOT has to make money! Unless it is making players that expend money in the game to go away, they will probably do nothing. If we want them to change, we need to find another game. Sad but... that is what I think. And I am still here, so I think I deserve it.
: My small bladder says hi
Try to say hi for your small bladder before queuing. It will probably take less than 5 minutes.
zPOOPz (NA)
: > I just hope those people are always in the enemy team... but the chances are 50-50 right... at least it should be... That's not how you math... If you are not "one of those people", then there are 5 chances of it being on the enemy team and only 4 chances of it being on your team (excluding you). That's not 50-50. If you are "one of those people", then the chances really are 50-50, but then it would be extremely hypocritical of you to be one of those people since you think it should be 50-50.
Right... still, I would like those people to be 100% in the team from those that think that it is ok to start a ranked game at 1:30. And no, I am not one of those. I have around 900 ranked games in this season in my main account and I was late for TWO games at most (I just remember of ONE, around 40s in the game when I was back and I know that because try to invade almost every game). In that case, punish me for those 2 games where I was late, but also punish the 600 players late for the other games.
: This is just a way for four players to gang up on a teammate. There is already a system in place - the IFS - to punish players who engage in forbidden behaviors like flaming or inting.
Does this system remove League Points from that player? No? So I think it is not enough. Does the player get banned for 5 minutes? 20 minutes? 1 week? Fine for them, just get another account and play. Then goes back with all your League Points and elo. If the permanent bans were applied more often, we would not have a community as toxic as we have. We should not permanently ban a player for trolling ONE game, but surely we should not reward him with League Points for that game. If we do not punish hard enough bad behaviours, it will not change.
: Hell no. Do not in any way, shape nor form give subjective entities the power to decide whether or not someone deserves rewards for their experiences. That's goddamn stupid. This isn't the same thing as voting to surrender, or early ff because someone is objectively afk. This is basically "We don't like this person so let's make them lose points!"
If ALL players from a team agree on that, I bet that player deserves it. It would discourage toxic players to keep being toxic. If you were toxic in a game and **ALL** your teammates agree on that, you get no points for the game if your team wins. If you don't agree with that, I would say there is a big chance you are a toxic player. Wanna soft the punishment, give just half of the LP then.
: > [{quoted}](name=RaidMataBemMort0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=E5TIKEiN,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-20T05:30:21.553+0000) > > Normal games worth nothing, you will win/lose nothing in the end. So, why new players are not confused in ranked games when they win/lose League Points? The first time you lose League Points for a late start you learn not to do that again, or you will lose again! > Really? keep tracking of which league they are playing!? If you are playing a ranked game I hope that AT LEAST you know that! Actually, if there are enough dodges, I have forgotten which queue I'm in. Or I'm invited to a duo queue and don't notice. I just happen to play at the same in both ranked and normal. And, in case you didn't know, the system already tags leaves as losses, with the accompanying LP loss if it's a ranked game. It just requires a longer absence than you're asking for.
I know that I just think it should change, 4 - 6 min AFK to lose something is too much for me. But it seems that a significant part community is ok with that, so be it. And that means they (the majority) are those people that are ok starting a ranked game at 1:30. I just hope those people are always in the enemy team... but the chances are 50-50 right... at least it should be... Whatever, if that is what the community wants, fine... (2 votes pro, 13 against and 4 whatever)
: While I believe LeaverBuster triggers faster from ranked games, the rules are consistant across modes. Saying "You can hang around the fountain for x seconds in normal games, but only y seconds in ranked" would just confuse people. New players would wonder why they are suddenly getting LB in ranked, while experienced players would have to keep track of which queue they're playing. It would just get messy.
Normal games worth nothing, you will win/lose nothing in the end. So, why new players are not confused in ranked games when they win/lose League Points? The first time you lose League Points for a late start you learn not to do that again, or you will lose again! Really? keep tracking of which league they are playing!? If you are playing a ranked game I hope that AT LEAST you know that!
: This is a ridiculous suggestion. Loading the game usually takes 60-90 seconds, plenty of time for me to grab a cup of coffee. If it loads faster because everyone has a decent computer, I might not be back before it starts. So because 1/10 times the game loads faster than expected I should be punished? That's really just stupid. The game isn't won/lost in those first 20 seconds, and if it is it's because the players who WERE there made terrible plays/decisions - Not because one player wasn't out yet. Worst case scenario the enemy takes your first buff(Because you're not stupid, so you walk away when you see their team coming rather than trying to fight for it and waste your summoners/give first blood.), which sets the jungler back very slightly, but they just start at the other side and work from there. If it's any worse than that, it's the fault of the players who were there and made the bad decision of trying to fight the enemy team over a buff and gave them an early advantage. It's one thing if someone stands in the base until 1:15 every game and never helps their teammates in the "Pre-Lane" stuff. That's not something that should be happening. It's also TOTALLY different than someone running to the bathroom or for a drink during loading, and having the game load faster than usual so missing the first 20 seconds. You shouldn't be fighting in the first 20 seconds anyway - It's a game about strategy and objectives, not an all-out spawn rush TDM.
1 - You may disagree, but I think that if you choose to play a ranked game, you must commit to the game from champion selection to the nexus. 2 - You are right about that... I will not try to save that anymore... ty for the advice! I think we should also give a few free waves to the enemy team, like, let's start as a team right? Once we have all the players we go to the lanes and jungle... we may try to invade later too... good idea 3 - I play champs that are good to invade, that is one strategy. What is not right is we take that option out of the table for an early AFK.
rujitra (NA)
: Riot's policy, based on the will of the majority of the community, is that ranked is a "friendly competition" - it is not "tryhard". It is a casual game mode, the only difference being that there is a ranked ladder.
Right... go to a friendly competition in a LAN house, for example, and try to go pee when the game is starting to see what your team will do to you... next game you are out, just like that... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} xD
zPOOPz (NA)
: I would really rather people take a shit the first 20 seconds of the game than do it mid game. LeaveBuster allows for a reasonable amount of time for people to fix whatever caused them to be afk and 20 seconds are well within the allotted time be it beginning middle or end of game.
Take a shit before queuing for ranked games. What about that? It is quick to take a leak, isn't it? Do it before queuing...
: Get over it, if you're "losing games" over what happens in the first 20 seconds you are not good enough to say you deserve the win otherwise
I just don't think it is fair to start gaming in disadvantage because a teammate doesn't care about the game "Ahh I don't care, it is my smurf account". Ranked games are not casual games. If you choose to play a ranked game, you must commit to the game from champion selection to the nexus.
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RaidMataBemMort0

Level 40 (NA)
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