Yenn (NA)
: Neeko is totally busted. Is it really necessary for every new champion to be broken upon release?
“In days long past, new champions were usually released at an acceptable level of power, and would start off with low win rates as people learned their kits and got used to them.” {{champion:5}} HA {{champion:80}} HA.
: dont you bad mouth my maokai {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
I’m as free to my opinion as you are.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdt6cPEg,comment-id=000200010002,timestamp=2018-12-09T01:57:51.643+0000) > > Then Riot shouldn’t have tanks in top lane. Engages and lockdown would work better in ganks than being stuck in top lane vs champions they shouldn’t have a chance at beating. fine with me. make them good junglers. give them the possibility to defend themselves from aggressive invades. im still convinced they can work in top lane without being able to just murder each other and juggernauts. {{champion:54}} still works without all that nonsense. he has to play very safe early on, but can still scale. i think its more of a problem that riot doesnt want passive lanes, more than that they couldnt get tanks into a spot where they can lane in the same lane as fighters, without turning them into fighters themselves.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdt6cPEg,comment-id=0002000100020000,timestamp=2018-12-09T02:00:57.204+0000) > > fine with me. make them good junglers. > > give them the possibility to defend themselves from aggressive invades. > See, as nice as this would be, the jungle meta is a cruel and fickle mistress, and giving them power against early invades "stops the counterplay of tank junglers". I'd rather not have my main champion pool be subject to a jungle meta that feels like it changes way too quickly. > im still convinced they can work in top lane without being able to just murder each other and juggernauts. {{champion:54}} still works without all that nonsense. he has to play very safe early on, but can still scale. > A champion who is in line for a 1st tier VGU and doesn't see much play. > i think its more of a problem that riot doesnt want passive lanes, more than that they couldnt get tanks into a spot where they can lane in the same lane as fighters, without turning them into fighters themselves. You're right, Riot doesn't want passive lanes. And so far in my experience of gamer culture, most people despise passive/defensive playstyles in the first place. I don't believe tanks should automatically beat fighters, nor do I think fighters should automatically beat tanks. Fighters should have an advantage, but not so much that a tank is just gonna be "Well, I guess I'm not doing anything in lane". In terms of %health damage, I'm fine with it so long as it has good counterplay, hence why I believe Sion's W is probably the best or only good tank ability with %health damage. Why? Because you can prevent it by breaking the shield, or you can run away, both avoiding the damage entirely! It's an aggro tool and a threat tool all in one, and it's not even his primary trading tool. Because of this, I think all of Poppy's %health damage should be backloaded to the second part of her Q, and Ornn should probably just get his W back to current, maybe give him a bigger AA range (probably not) or just remove the %health burst from his brittle proc. Not all tanks need %health damage, {{champion:20}} doesn't have any in his kit, but he doesn't see much toplane play. {{champion:111}} doesn't have any, but he's basically been pushed to support because Riot kept nerfing his damage so he can't even jungle. Hell, I think they should get rid of {{champion:223}}'s because support tanks don't need %health damage, but Tahm's hard CC is so unreliable against enemies that he needs shit. Then there are other tanks whose application of this damage I absolutely despite because there is very little counterplay to it. {{champion:113}} is basically "don't get click stunned" after taking 4 melee autoattacks, what counterplay do you have to that in a teamfight? What about {{champion:154}}, who does it in a small AoE burst around him? Thank god {{champion:57}} doesn't have it on his root anymore because it was too fucking reliable, though I fucking despise his kit anyway. Riot gives %health damage to top lane tanks because they trade with beefy targets. This would be fine if they didn't keep putting it on the main trading abilities of tanks (Poppy Q, Ornn W, Shen Q) and instead put them into other abilities that offer good counterplay for the burst they provide (Sion). You say tanks don't need to, well,{{champion:54}} is the only tank I know of that still goes top without it, which honestly doesn't support your idea very well. Especially since, again, he's on the list for a tier 1 VGU. Edit: Also, Fuck {{champion:31}}. This fucker gives tanks such a bad name, and in all honesty he feels more like a juggernaut to me.
: so then tanks are subjected to jungle and support only? and well there is only 1 tank jungler that is decent and its rammus and he isnt even top 5, he is 8th over all at jungle top lane the only tank in top 10 is sion no tanks in mid, no "bot " tanks and only 3 support tanks are viable: ali, leona, braum
Frankly, I don't want them to be jungle and support, and neither does Riot. Hence why I don't agree with his argument.
: I am not going to stop complaining about Sion until Riot finds a way to fix him.
Good waveclear and CC are all you need to stop Int Sion. His passive as a tank is meant to be a continuous threat even after death (it’s laughable because of how easy it is to run away from, so Sion’s starting focusing objectives primarily with it). It’s nuts now because of demolish and he builds lots of AD in his Int build to get better damage off of it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdt6cPEg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-09T00:29:04.454+0000) > > So what's the purpose of tank? To be so tanky that the other top laner (or jungler) can't kill him and get a lead on him and carry the game? engage fights for his team, lockdown and peel. none of that require multiple sources of scaling % damage in their kits. the problems start when tanks have enough damage to fight each other and bruisers, but also have tank utility. looking at you {{champion:31}}
Then Riot shouldn’t have tanks in top lane. Engages and lockdown would work better in ganks than being stuck in top lane vs champions they shouldn’t have a chance at beating.
: way too much cc in this game
You’re still alive after 15 seconds?!
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KpLpQWo,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-08T19:47:43.700+0000) > > Doesn’t Yasuo fully max his Q CD at like, idk, two AS and crit items? And can’t you suppliment some of the AS lost from not buying berserkers through Runes like legend Alacrity and the 9% AS from shards? > > So, PD, Runes, 9% from shard, maybe grab another AS item like Bork if you wanna avoid crit? > > It feels like there are options if you wanna sacrifice your boots for tenacity. You could, but then what would be the point? i'd gain 5% more tenacity at best and have 25 less mr. The Mr as of now is worth so much more than the 30% tenacity. 5% may seem like a lot, but honestly having had tenacity in the 50%+ range before, I can attest that it doesn't do much. I've literally gone from play multiple games per night this season, to maybe 1 a week when there aren't rotating game modes. It feel bad to play at this point.
Wait, where are you losing MR? Treads, the boots that give tenacity, also give MR. And the shards that give MR aren’t in the same row as AS shards.
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KpLpQWo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-08T19:03:20.673+0000) > > You can have 30% Tenacity out of Precision as well. > Also, you know the word positioning? At the price off attack speed. Anyone who needs the tenacity needs the attack speed much more.
Doesn’t Yasuo fully max his Q CD at like, idk, two AS and crit items? And can’t you suppliment some of the AS lost from not buying berserkers through Runes like legend Alacrity and the 9% AS from shards? So, PD, Runes, 9% from shard, maybe grab another AS item like Bork if you wanna avoid crit? It feels like there are options if you wanna sacrifice your boots for tenacity.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1IWordvr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-08T18:36:38.370+0000) > > Why is he getting Poppy W passive? No clue. Maybe Riot changed their minds and tanks should rely solely on passive tankiness again..allows more room in a skill for damage?
Frankly I find this to be a bad bandaid as it removes from some uniqueness of Poppy (and it isn’t super unique as I’m certain other champions get more out of one resistance as well). Now I’ll admit I’m biased, but Poppy and Sion are really the only tanks I feel tanky on because of the health gain or resistance boost they get early. Despite this, I don’t believe Riot should be giving a Poppy passive to other tanks, but instead give them ways to boost their durability outside of just items. Ornn has this with his shield, but if Riot is adamant on removing the shield, why not give Ornn something like DR?
: Ornn PBE Update 2.0
Why is he getting Poppy W passive?
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lspwBPFO,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-07T08:15:47.636+0000) > > You do not understand the game if you think Yasuo should be able to 1v1 Mundo. a duelist fighter meant to slay tanks isn't supposed to fight a tank? are you braindead m8?
Well Mundo isn’t a tank, Juggernauts are good at 1v1s. Now frankly, the only time I’ve seen Mundo kill Yasuo is if Yasuo is behind, or played awful.
: Seems like an unnecessary buff balance, wise. Galio is in a good spot now. Thematically? Yes there should be a sheild. I mean I dont know why it had damage reduction in the first place. It was invisible to your allies and enemies, which made it kinda underwhelming. It should always have been a sheild on the person he targetted.
Then it’s literally a better Shen ult.
: What sources of true damage are you talking about specifically? I barely ever encounter True damage in games other than IE, and IE is designed to be built on adcs, you know, the class that is supposed to be able to deal with tanks.
Krupaz (NA)
: What is the implication here? That good looking people can't be successful or that to survive you must be bereft of luck? The best people are invariably lucky, it's about the luck you get and *how you use that luck* that determines your success. This is such a silly post, "she doesn't look like a survivor". WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THIS? What "looks like a survivor"?
Not having what looks like make up while in the middle of a firefight. At least that’s what it looks like to me.
: I just want the devs to make the character the want in their creativity without being bound to filling quotas.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-05T19:37:51.841+0000) > > And I get that She-Ra and League have vastly different markets. One is targeted towards young girls, the other is targeted towards guys who like seeing women in Bikinis fling spells at each other Wow Ral, what a discriminatory blanket statement. What's wrong with guys who like seeing women in bikinis *shooting guns* at each other?!
Did I say it was wrong? I said it was a target audience.
Ultrys (NA)
: Hey yeah allow me to go into battle with melee weapons as a big fat lard. That sounds excellent! Talk about a handicap! No that is just plain silly and impractical. Also, if you were fat and found yourself doing lots of combat and lived long, you wouldnt be fat for very long. Seriously I could see a wise wizard being plump, or an illusionist, or someone that uses their wits (still a handicap). But a physical combatant? Now you're forcing fantasy for your own desires and you need to give reason for it. Naruto does this with Choji and his daughter with energy storage. But they arent always fat. But kai'sa is a mobile ranged weapon user. She survives on her physical prowess, which goes hand-in-hand with fitness. To suggest otherwise is impractical. Do you see fat female mma fighters? The cartoon you linked above for princess glimmer, medically speaking, is unhealthy according to science. I dont love the idea of promoting being unhealthy. To hell with body positivity at the cost of health. That isnt doing anyone any favors. Are you advocating for diabetes and heart attack/strokes?
> [{quoted}](name=Ultrys,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2018-12-05T22:09:41.534+0000) > > Hey yeah allow me to go into battle with melee weapons as a big fat lard. That sounds excellent! Talk about a handicap! > > No that is just plain silly and impractical. Also, if you were fat and found yourself doing lots of combat and lived long, you wouldnt be fat for very long. Seriously I could see a wise wizard being plump, or an illusionist, or someone that uses their wits (still a handicap). But a physical combatant? Now you're forcing fantasy for your own desires and you need to give reason for it. Naruto does this with Choji and his daughter with energy storage. But they arent always fat. Silly and impractical? I {{champion:79}} have {{champion:78}} no {{champion:33}} idea {{champion:154}} what {{champion:119}} you {{champion:164}} mean {{champion:141}}. > > But kai'sa is a mobile ranged weapon user. She survives on her physical prowess, which goes hand-in-hand with fitness. To suggest otherwise is impractical. Do you see fat female mma fighters? Ronda Rousey isn't fat but she looks to have an Endomorphic body type. Which is what I'm going on. > > The cartoon you linked above for princess glimmer, medically speaking, is unhealthy according to science. I dont love the idea of promoting being unhealthy. To hell with body positivity at the cost of health. That isnt doing anyone any favors. Are you advocating for diabetes and heart attack/strokes? Do you know what an endomorph is? Endomorphic: characterized as round, usually short and soft with under-developed muscles and having difficulty losing weight; described as viscerotonic (sociable), enjoying food, people and affection; having slow reactions; and being disposed to complacency.[3][8]
: I actually agree with you mostly, but when you say that Kai'sa is a misstep can you elaborate. Kai'sa is pretty diverse as diverse as gets just in different ways than {{champion:420}} , {{champion:163}} , {{champion:164}}. One's a Maoi inspired priest, another is a lady with scissor legs , and the third is a rock mage with darker skin. Is it the race that makes them diverse or the body type? Their motivations or that they don't conform to their ascribed gender roles? I think you mean they are diverse because they don't conform to standard beauty conventions? I can't say it's race because Camille is white so I think that is what you are getting at. With Illaois' more masculine frame and Taliyahs' more "ugly duckling" face design, but then Camille has scissors for legs.... is that a body type that needs representation? Or is it because she's old? Do you see what I am getting at? What type of diversity is "good diversity" and which is "just different". You're telling me this is important and I'm willing to follow you, but why is it important. You can tell me Kai'Sa art aesthetic isn't strong and I might be inclined to agree with you, but she has a more "ideal" hourglass body shape so that's a problem? People say diversity is important because representation is important but isn't that just circular logic? The whole thing confuses me to be honest. See the problem isn't that Riot shouldn't be diverse it's the intent of what diversity means in games that people try to obfuscate when they use the catch all term diverse. People perceive the agenda behind it and it's the perceived dishonesty/ verbal substitution that turns people off of it. Can you clearly say what it is you would like? Because I read these threads and I don't go one way or the other because I don't understand what the issue is.
In all honesty, my opinion of Kaisa is my own fault. When Riot was announcing this ADC, I was taking this "void survivor"idea as something interesting. How can a human constantly survive in the void? What effect does the void have on them? But when she was released, she basically took every aspect of a void champion (or rather, the fact that every void champion is mutated in some way) and ignored it, fluffed as her biosuit protecting her. I felt it was a waste of potential. The glowing void pistols didn't help. IMO if she shot spikes instead of void lasers or used her shoulder cannon/jet shoulders more I'd be less bothered by it.
GYLDA (EUNE)
: I haven’t watched that anime thing you mentioned but I don’t think that they should make fat female champions just to be diverse.. as you put it the she ra thing you mentioned is marketed towards little girls. But why would we tell these little girls that its okay to be unhealthy same goes as in league of legends champions designs, I get why you maybe could see some female champions to be old but just make fat female champions shouldn’t be on Riot games agenda there are way more important things that they could do to ”Fix” sexism or whatever...
> [{quoted}](name=GYLDA,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-12-05T22:04:18.028+0000) > > I haven’t watched that anime thing you mentioned but I don’t think that they should make **fat female champions just to be diverse**.. as you put it the she ra thing you mentioned is marketed towards little girls. But why would we tell these little girls that its okay to be unhealthy same goes as in league of legends champions designs, I get why you maybe could see some female champions to be old but just make fat female champions shouldn’t be on Riot games agenda there are way more important things that they could do to ”Fix” sexism or whatever... I'm not saying fat, I'm saying endomorph. Endomorphic: characterized as round, usually short and soft with under-developed muscles and having difficulty losing weight; described as viscerotonic (sociable), enjoying food, people and affection; having slow reactions; and being disposed to complacency.[3][8]
: we just got a lesbian minority chameleon please calm down
: Totally off topic of the thread but is anyone else sick of that god-awful artstyle? It's been cropping up everywhere, probably because Cartoon Network rides it so hard, and it really is not unique or interesting in any way. It'd be nice to see something new.
It’s probably really quick to make. Some areas it fits (like She-Ra) but I could see it less.
: I see. I don't think this is the best example, considering the show's main characters are a lesbian tomboy, a fat half-angel and a black nerd. You should've just made a post on Noxus.
: You haven't said anything that hasn't been said before, nor anything that would get you downvoted. What is the point of this post exactly?
: I don't think we should encourage obesity tho... It's a disease afterall and we should help the people that are obese get healthy so they dont have heart attacks at age 40. And yes I am aware the example you give is not actual obesity and is just fat but betwen representing fatness and obesity is a very thin line that we should be carefull to not cross.
There’s obesity and there’s being a wider body type. Having some fat on you Isn’t unhealthy. Not everyone needs to look skinny or like an athlete to be healthy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:06:51.338+0000) > > I’m not bothered by that. I’m bothered that there really isn’t much that shows she fights in the void. > > She looks like cosplay to me. Yeah I'm sorry but there's a burning guy that throws bouncing fireballs and you want to talk realistic? Riot has done well to diversify their cast of characters throughout the past two years. It's called nitpicking when you have to bring up the perspective that you feel Kai'Sa's appearance has been noted as a setback or as Riot going back on their ideals. Just another thread among the millions that talk about sexuality in League. As another user has stated already: League is more about the game, not the characters. You can't make everyone happy, and they know that. You'll have to find peace with that somehow, as well.
At least the burning guy throwing fireballs looks like he’s actually burning. Imagine if brand wasn’t burning like that but was described as always being on fire. That’s my issue with Kaisa. She was described as a survivor but I just don’t see it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-12-05T19:53:13.358+0000) > > To be honest sometimes it feels like they take a step back (Kaisa). > > Riot does put a lot of effort into character designs, and I feel they get bashed to often when a character isn’t sexy or is too appealing to SJW’s. I guess I’m worried at times that Riot will walk away from trying to be diverse in their cast, which will only make them bland. How is Kai'Sa a step back? Just cause she's not ugly or fat? Don't give me the V neck argument cause the V neck barely shows anything
She doesn’t look like a survivor to me. She looks like someone who just got super lucky.
: Kai’Sa was not meant to be some grotesque monster of the void, or some sexy monster girl like Kerrigan. I think people set themselves up to be disappointed in that regard. While she could be more toned, she’s meant to be an agile huntress with a bio suit. It makes sense for me that she’s like Samus. The v line is an optional thing that she can cover up. We see this in nearly all of her media.
I’m not bothered by that. I’m bothered that there really isn’t much that shows she fights in the void. She looks like cosplay to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:02:22.367+0000) > > Hence why a character shouldn’t be diverse to be diverse. ?
Don’t make a character black just so we have a black character.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eeJ9Tj2A,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-05T19:48:22.869+0000) > > Yeah, a friend to everyone is a friend to no one. You shouldn't go out to appease everyone, but with every champion you release you can target a different crowd. Yeah, but the point of my other comment was: it needs to be a large enough crowd, otherwise that would result in a DISASTER. Aka: "you can put an old woman (or w/e else) as a champ...if you are reasonably sure that she will be liked by enough players and not SUPER HATED by the vast majority". Riot can't afford to botch a champion launch for "diversity sake" alone.
Hence why a character shouldn’t be diverse to be diverse.
: You're making it seem like Riot isn't already trying to do what you're describing.
To be honest sometimes it feels like they take a step back (Kaisa). Riot does put a lot of effort into character designs, and I feel they get bashed to often when a character isn’t sexy or is too appealing to SJW’s. I guess I’m worried at times that Riot will walk away from trying to be diverse in their cast, which will only make them bland.
: Like you said, is an impossible task to please the audience anyway. You insert a black guy? OMG RIOT SJW HYPOCRITE PIECE OF SHIT YOU DID IT ONLY BECAUSE BLA BLA BLA You DON'T insert a black guy? OMG RIOT RENAME YOURSELF "KKK GAMING" YOU FUCKING BLA BLA BLA
Yeah, a friend to everyone is a friend to no one. You shouldn't go out to appease everyone, but with every champion you release you can target a different crowd.
Rioter Comments
Moody P (NA)
: Fighters too Only meta ones in top are the small handful that can survive or counter AP champs everyone else is jungling or irrelevant
: Thoughts on rebalancing tanks
What tank buys wits end?
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: "Our goal is to level up any outdated visuals or gameplay to make them feel fresh while still retaining what makes them unique as a champion." https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule#h1q1 They aren't keeping the core themes intact is my problem. Just because Mordekaiser is still a walking metal suit does not mean his core theme (gameplay-wise) is retained. He is now a bot laner, with little splitpushing or 1v2 potential, and now his gameplay revolves around taking dragons? What part of his theme was kept here? Just because they have some abilities similar, or even the same does not mean that the champion's core theme is kept. > They are generally, new champions. Which is my problem. I don't want a new champion, I want the same champion, with the same core identity (gameplay and aesthetically), just as Riot claims - but that isn't what we get.
> [{quoted}](name=Du Ma Mi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiM6X48T,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T00:27:20.388+0000) > > "Our goal is to level up any outdated visuals or gameplay to make them feel fresh while still retaining what makes them unique as a champion." https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule#h1q1 > > **They aren't keeping the core themes intact is my problem.** Just because Mordekaiser is still a walking metal suit does not mean his core theme (gameplay-wise) is retained. He is now a bot laner, with little splitpushing or 1v2 potential, and now his gameplay revolves around taking dragons? What part of his theme was kept here? Just because they have some abilities similar, or even the same does not mean that the champion's core theme is kept. > Except the cores they are focusing on is thematic, not playstyle. Mordekaiser is the exception because they royally fucked him up. But Sion had very little in his playstyle that fit with the theme they wanted, so they revamped him to be more focused on the undead monstrosity aspect. Galio's core thematic was being a protector, but his old form didn't allow him to do that outside of his ult. Now Galio can better act as a protector. > Which is my problem. I don't want a new champion, I want the same champion, with the same core identity (gameplay and aesthetically), just as Riot claims - but that isn't what we get. That's not what a full VGU gives. A full VGU changes the gameplay of a champion. They are taking what they believe is the core aspect, and rebuilding around that. Keeping the unique parts doesn't mean not changing most of the champion. They kept Galio's taunt, which was arguably his most unique aspect, but then built a kit around that.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: Mechanics don't bother me so much as playstyle. A part of a champion's theme is how they're meant to be played, and most of these champions are played wildly differently than the original champion was.
> [{quoted}](name=Du Ma Mi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiM6X48T,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T00:29:12.038+0000) > > Mechanics don't bother me so much as playstyle. **A part of a champion's theme is how they're meant to be played**, and most of these champions are played wildly differently than the original champion was. No? At the very least, that's not a big aspect to a champion's theme. But you are correct that they all play very differently than the original character, which was the point.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: And that's a fair point, but it irks me when they say they try to keep the core themes intact, when they could clearly be doing a far better job.
Core themes are not mechanics though, and you seem more bothered by mechanics not being the same.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: But my point is that they rarely even play similarly. Taking two of their abilities is fine, if they refine the other ones to better promote how the kit is intended to be played. Like with Galio - how on earth does a straight CC tank play similarly to what was either a control mage or AP bruiser (with lots of ranged damage and healing)? While you can still build AP to make him a bruiser, he doesn't play similarly at all, with the exception of having a taunt.
> [{quoted}](name=Du Ma Mi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiM6X48T,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T00:13:46.149+0000) > > **But my point is that they rarely even play similarly.** Taking two of their abilities is fine, if they refine the other ones to better promote how the kit is intended to be played. Like with Galio - how on earth does a straight CC tank play similarly to what was either a control mage or AP bruiser (with lots of ranged damage and healing)? > > While you can still build AP to make him a bruiser, he doesn't play similarly at all, with the exception of having a taunt. That's because they aren't supposed to play differently when rebuilt from the ground up. They are rebuilding based on theme alone because they deemed the original playstyles as not working/unhealthy. They are generally, new champions.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: A lot of reworks feel like a complete retirement of the champion
Those reworks, mainly the VGU’s are more of a “take 2” of the champion. They take the basic premise or idea they were going with when they originally made them, and rebuild them with modern designs. They look so different because design philosophies have changed over the years.
Galiö (NA)
: Yes true. But neeko doeant get +90Armor and MR and want you to go in to hit her for heals and damage amp. She isnt as tanky and is artillary for the most part but yet wants to go in for an ult. Galio was fine just sitting back and wiatjnf first enemy to go in on him. If he was ranged hed just be broken with no counter.
Yes, a ranged durable character isn’t counter intuitive. And by durable, I mean scaling with resistances, not just the health.
Galiö (NA)
: He was an artillery mage, with benefits on being hit. Summed up in one sentence. Nothing mixed up even though his ult was hard to pull off. Its similar for the new champ Neeko. She has two poke spells, a movement speed bonus and an air nuke she needs to get close for. Instead of on damage benefits she has a clone.
Neeko is also ranged in auto attacks.
: dark harvest received a hotfix nerf and has further nerfs planned in the future.
Wasn’t that always the nature of this Rune? Even before the change, I felt that ranged auto attacking champions had better ways to proc it. While Melee champions do need an edge, there are always going to be things ranged champion’s have better.
: The biggest problem with Marksmen and Tanks right now...
You know, one tank and one fighter is enough of a frontline.
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=trNsylrZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T14:25:44.561+0000) > > Surprised? > > I wonder why TF (champion that used to be picked in pro regardless of the meta) hasn't showed in pro ever since Galio has been released You do realize that TF is a mage, and galio is a tank/mage hybrid, right? Their kits are almost completely different. If that's not the case, then what makes galio a "better TF"? I'm honestly confused here.
I think he’s saying Gallo’s global and CC presence is better than TF’s (which both are picked for).
: Why does Adaptive Force give more AP than AD instead of having a balance?
I just assumed it was because AD champions get base AD per level while AP champions don’t get base AP per level.
: Is it weird that Leona and Braum can't proc shield bash?
But as you said, they already bash people with their shields.
Kersi (NA)
: Have you tried him with this new version of dark harvest, its insanely strong.
Dark harvest Karthus? Oh that sounds fun, I haven’t played Karthus in ages.
: In spite of any preaseason problems - Thank goodness for the changes to macro
I’ve liked the tower changes. Getting gold for breaking a shield feels very rewarding.
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Ralanr

Level 101 (NA)
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