: The developers still don't understand what tanks are supposed to be.
Tanks do not output more damage than carries. I know people tend to think this when they die to a tank, but frankly a lot of people overestimate how much damage they can take.
: What changes would you suggest then?
I don't think there needs to be a change honestly.
: Leveling Up Should Restore You Back to Full Health
No. That would be too ridiculous in lane.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMAE04rL,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T20:20:06.509+0000) > > What? > > The primary and secondary class system that Riot has us outdated. Like most of the main site. well, if enough people could inflate {{champion:555}} hype with that sick teaser then I'm sure 1 person can update it in like a couple hours or less.
Different departments though honestly the main site needs some updates and changes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMAE04rL,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T18:11:09.450+0000) > > https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses > > The old primary/secondary system is pretty unreliable and shouldn’t be taken seriously. If they reveal the rotation ahead of times then you'd think somebody would go "wait, why does it say Xerath is an assassin?" when writing it before it was released. They'd been working well ahead of times of their due date (Tuesday)
What? The primary and secondary class system that Riot has us outdated. Like most of the main site.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMAE04rL,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T17:54:39.858+0000) > > Having tank like qualities doesn’t actually make a champion a tank though, that’s like saying any fighter who has easy to hit hard CC is a tank because of that. > > Garen is more of a bruiser/juggernaut than a tank. Sure, he’s the most defensive of them, but that doesn’t mean he’s a tank. It says it according to riot themselves. Now I will say that I was shocked to hear that Nunu was actually a Support/Bruiser and not a tank but nonetheless if it says something on RIots official site then its gotta be true.
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses The old primary/secondary system is pretty unreliable and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMAE04rL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T17:47:03.241+0000) > > Juggernauts are a subclass of Fighters and are actually the closest successor to the identity of Bruisers in league. Garen is still has the tank aspects juggernaut or bruiser. It says in in the free champion rotation. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/free-rotation/new-free-champion-rotation-taric-jhin-fizz-and-more
Having tank like qualities doesn’t actually make a champion a tank though, that’s like saying any fighter who has easy to hit hard CC is a tank because of that. Garen is more of a bruiser/juggernaut than a tank. Sure, he’s the most defensive of them, but that doesn’t mean he’s a tank.
: > [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMAE04rL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-14T17:28:45.943+0000) > > Garen tank > > {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Garen is a tank (juggernaut to be exact) ask his passive.
Juggernauts are a subclass of Fighters and are actually the closest successor to the identity of Bruisers in league.
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHVQKEm2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-13T18:18:40.526+0000) > > old poppy was not functional She was a tank, literally just intended to tank things, basically she was a mundo with less damage and no healing but instead absurd defensive scaling and an ult that was a middle finger to the enemy.
She wasn’t a tank. She was a toxic diver.
PooWho (NA)
: Yeah this is true, what I'm trying to say though is that her new 'complex' kit is just a gimmick. She feels different and just makes you have to do a lot more for nearly the same amount of damage.
Which is bad how? I can understand being annoyed with several different combos like Ryze, but giving a kit more flexibility than a previous version is a good thing imo.
: Some have more self-awareness than others.
This self awareness is not restricted to class however.
: IMO it's all ego based. They can't take themselves out of the equation. Some people have built their whole identity out of being a tank player so if anyone points out something negative about the class then they take it as a personal affront rather than what it is, just a critique of the game.
The same could be said for literally anyone though.
PooWho (NA)
: Stop Reworking Every Champion to have a High Skill-Cap
I don’t think Irelia has many new combos. I feel it’s relatively similar, just now you need to land her stun instead of being lower health.
: yes, but nothing is on the line in ranked. If they keep doing the same behavoir in normal, then they get a ban. OR like I have said many time for years, just ban them from the start if they do this shit. Like, mandatory progressively longer bans. Not maybe, not sometimes. ALWAYS if you do those things I mentioned with frequency.
The trouble with banning is that it doesn't stop people from making or buying new accounts.
: if they keep up the same pattern, then they should just an outright 7 day ban
And then what? After 7 days they still need to play normals to get back into ranked? This doesn't stop people from being toxic, it just pushes it onto the people who play for fun.
LankPants (OCE)
: The best thing Riot could do with Sej is just a revert TBH. The rework has just been a colossal clusterfuck on all fronts and it doesn't seem like there's any way to actually fix her.
Honestly at this point I feel they might put her on the full VGU needed list.
: Also its normals. It literally doesnt matter. Its not ranked.
In a way, it does. My hour of play is my time to use. Being stuck with an asshole sucks regardless of rank or not.
: This sounds like you don't care if people are getting screwed when trying to climb in ranked.
So people that just want to play for fun should get screwed over?
: Ranked isn't fun and its not just the balance...here is a small fix
This sounds like it would make normals toxic.
Weensw (NA)
: Would tanks become viable if you simply increase defense stats from items by 50%?
But what’s to stop bruisers from benefiting from them? Hell, better tank items means bruisers can invest in less tank items than they do now to get some durability.
: riot what about other tank champions?
Sejuani I think is tricky to touch still. Malphite...well idk if he should be buffed frankly. Support tanks are generally fine so they don’t need changes.
Nico237 (EUNE)
: New Akali is so broken its not even funny
You had your ult at level 3?
: sion hardly gets 200 hp maybe 350 if its a long game unless you have 40% bonus hp per second its not really gonna be strong.
... What? I normally get between 400-600 HP a game, a 400 is rare.
Ahpe (NA)
: _whoooosh_
Ahpe (NA)
: Idk man this one time I saw {{champion:36}} walk into a public washroom all angry and he was holding {{item:3025}}. All I hear is #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM For a solid 20 seconds. He came back out walking all funny like his left thigh was numb but he had a smile on his face. That's some pretty Hard AOE CC.
Ahpe (NA)
: Except for these sexy hunks of meat {{champion:122}}{{champion:120}}{{champion:6}}{{champion:19}}{{champion:83}} ENGAGGGGGGGG
: It wouldn't be any less broken than {{item:3095}} being 2800 gold when the patch goes through. Far better stats than ghostblade, yet cheaper. It should be at least as expensive as {{item:3071}} for the stats it gives. I understand and even argued for making adc early game better in exchange for less absurd late game power, but I have a feeling they went too far with buffing early/mid viability without shaving off enough late. Only time will tell for sure. But as far as stormrazor is concerned, I see a whole ton of abuse of this by adc's in mid and top incoming. Quinn especially, but potentially others too. Just hold off trading for a few seconds, take short 3 auto trade again - perhaps even with hail of blades and no mage, assassin, or melee top will be able to compete. They'll either become unplayable or miss powerspike windows due to having to itemize early defensive stats (hp, armor, regen, consumables) and have their build order thrown out of whack and slowed down and be farming under tower most of lane unable to make roaming plays. I think most of adc changes with this patch incoming are ok or worth investigating, but the stormrazor changes are probably going to be very unhealthy - at least if quinn isn't banned.
You lost me. What do adc changes have to do with making sunfire scale with bonus HP?
Ahpe (NA)
: But yeah what's your actual opinion on {{item:3068}} having a HP ratio?
My opinion is that I don't want Sion nerfed because he works too well with an HP ratio sunfire.
: Make sunfire damage scale of bonus hp
Sion and Cho’gath: YES! Everyone that wants balance: NO!
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: TBH tank champions are mostly fine, it's Resolve rune path that drags them down.
I don’t think demolish needs to be removed. For one, the Resolve tree isn’t only for tanks (though they are the ones to primarily use it for they keystones) but for juggernauts and some fighters, who can better use it for splitpushing.
: Trick2G tanks 39 tower shots relatively problem free
: I agree; revert {{champion:516}}'s damage nerfs and give him his Unstoppable back... Perhaps also giving him 100% damage reduction (including true damage) on his W as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MYqXppGT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-28T15:41:40.260+0000) > > And then theyll be played even less because they do no damage. A tank without damage is a tank thats just ignored. No because they still bring utility, a body to block skillshots, and their flat damage should be enough to threaten most squishies
If Support tanks were having the issue then this would be fine. But top and jungle tanks still need damage to trade and clear.
Hügö (EUW)
: And how does giving squishies mroe armor will help tanks?
Aptest (EUW)
: Exempt we the people who sit on that class's slot in champion select, don't want this game play pattern to be obligatory for us. sure we want to play point defense from time to time, but we want this to be a choice for us, not an obligatory role every game or else punished with a lost game.
Yet those who do want to feel like they are getting shafted.
Shakyasu (NA)
: Yah they should be able to trade, but like i said they shouldn't be able to out trade literally everyone, a malphite shouldnt ve able to out trade a quinn lv 1 with a cheese wheel, it just doesnt make sense seeing as he is a tank. once they get defensive items they can probably stay in a trade longer.
Malphite in general needs a full VGU. But tanks do not outrade everyone. Arguably rank trading patterns need to be made less reliable. Less point and click targeted abilities on champions like Maokai and Malphite.
Shakyasu (NA)
: Yah they should. I'm not saying they should have a base damage of 20 on all their spells, but If you want tanks to be tanky they cant be out doing what damage champs are suppose to, they should be more able to follow up on ganks reliably, where champs like teemo cant really follow up on a gank accept for little pokes following the jungle cc.
Then tanks wouldn't go top. If you want to go top, you need the ability to trade. Without that, you're basically just wasting that lane.
Shakyasu (NA)
: I feel like a few tanks could use an update as well, but mostly I think that they need Health buffs, base armor/mr buffs etc, and nerfs on base damages. Scaling is fine because if you sacrifice tank for a some more damage that's fine, and it's still possible to go full ap attack speed hybrid movement super op pentakill shen or whatever
But Riot doesn’t want tanks to just sandbag a lane. They want them to trade and interact with their opponents, hence the high base damage abilities.
Shakyasu (NA)
: My thoughts on tanks
On one hand, I can see why tank damage gets buffed. Top lane tanks need power to trade. But on the other, I see that too much damage just turns tanks into another form of bruiser. Now I won’t deny that I love tanks that can “hurt” when played right. Sion and Poppy imo are the most rewarding for this because they really need to land their abilities right to trace. But when we generally buff tank damage, we’re more likely to see tanks like Maokai who feel like they outrade you simply by autoing (I don’t like Maokai). I think a lot of major tanks need to be redisigned to be easier to balance. They tried this in the tank update, but I feel it only highlighted that there is more required for them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O2m5fNvf,comment-id=000b0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-27T15:27:22.683+0000) > > Because his Taunt isn’t meant to be his main damage source. It's one of his only two damage sources, though, and my other proposed damage source is an attack steroid, very much like the current one. What is your criticism again? > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O2m5fNvf,comment-id=000b0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-27T15:27:22.683+0000) > > I tried maxing it first when his rework cane around, it’s not very useful. Plus if you’re maxing a taunt first, it means Shen can trade unfairly more often. Except I proposed to nerf the base duration, and have it scale up to current values. Why is this unfair?
Imo, because it’s effectively forcing people to trade against their will. Yes that’s taunts in general, but they usually aren’t maxed first.
: It also increases his taunt duration, so whether or not damage is your specific goal, there's an option to max it out early, and still get more out of it via the taunt. In the end, Shen currently has 2 damage sources on his actives, and would continue to have 2 damage sources on his actives.
Because his Taunt isn’t meant to be his main damage source. I tried maxing it first when his rework cane around, it’s not very useful. Plus if you’re maxing a taunt first, it means Shen can trade unfairly more often.
: Can we get more Sion lore?
Yes, yes please. All of my yes.
: It has an attack speed boost, though? His E also still deals damage, and I suggested buffing his base AD and growth on top of all this.
: I agree with this. Shen's biggest problem is that he's far too reliable in organized play, and Riot's attempts to nerf him there have only further harmed his performance at all other elos, when he's already fairly weak there. In general, it also feels like he's stuck halfway between two worlds: most players pick him because they want a badass tank who can duel in lane and then help out his team, but pros pick him because of his ultra-powerful ult, and little else. He needs to find balance between the two if he is to feel both satisfactory and healthy at all degrees of mastery. I also very much agree that the spirit sword mechanic was a failure. The system is gimmicky and not all that relevant Shen's core gameplay, and in the end only adds complication to a champion whose prime source of difficulty should be the usage of his ult. The abilities tied to the sword are also not that great, with the W in particular clashing with his innate shield. I'd personally advocate stripping him of the mechanic entirely, and finding other ways of making him interact with his opponents in lane. --- Adding to this, I've had a paper kit for Shen in mind for some time that I think could get to what the thread OP suggests (with placeholder numbers): * **Stats**: * Max energy reduced to 100 from 400. * Base AD increased to 65 from 60. * AD growth increased to 5 from 3. * Base health increased to 600 from 540. * Health growth increased to 90 from 85. * Base armor increased to 35 from 34. * Armor growth increased to 3.5 from 3. * **Innate - Ki Barrier:** Shen shields himself for 15% maximum health (+ 60% AP) for 2 seconds after using an ability. This can only happen once every 10 / 8 / 6 / 4 seconds at levels 1, 6, 11 and 16 respectively. * **Q - Twilight Shift:** Shen prepares to shift to the spirit realm over 1 second, which does not impede any of his other actions. At the end of the duration, he and all nearby units are shifted to the spirit realm for 2 seconds, during which they are invisible and untargetable to all units in the physical realm, while also being unable to see and target them (possibly also applies some graphical filter to indicate the shift). While inside the spirit realm, Shen switches swords, gaining 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100% (+ 10% per 100 AP) bonus attack speed. At the end of the duration, all units are brought back to the physical realm. * Costs 25 Energy. * 9 / 8.5 / 8 / 7.5 / 7-second cooldown. * **W - Feint:** Shen reacts to the next instance of champion damage he takes within 0.5 seconds, blinking behind his attacker and slowing their movement away from him by 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70% for 1 second. * Costs 25 Energy. * Has no cooldown. * **E - Kinkou Dash:** Shen dashes in the target direction, taunting all enemies he hits for 0.5 / 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 seconds and dealing them 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 100% AP) magic damage. * Costs 50 Energy. * 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10-second cooldown. * **R - Stand United:** Shen channels over 4 seconds, during which time all damage taken by the target allied champion is transferred to him instead (his health is also indicated on the target's health bar as a shield). Upon successfully completing the channel, Shen then blinks directly in front of the target. * Costs no Energy. * 200 / 175 / 150-second cooldown. The idea here being that Shen would be a Warden focused primarily on mobility and taking either allies or enemies out of combat, with some dueling power to help him. His basic ability set should ideally be easier to pick up, and he would also have an option for an AP build that offers clear differences from his main, tanky build. His ult would also be nerfed overall, retaining its core elements while preventing Shen from teleporting on-demand with no consequences.
So...if I understand this right, his Q would allow him to trade while invisible and make his own minions invisible? Shouldn't he break stealth when hitting someone?
SuperHornio (EUNE)
: Why does everyone say pantheon is so easy?
: Thunderlord's had lower numbers yes, but the cooldown was half what Electrocute's is, it was easier to proc, and it dealt AOE damage (albiet in a very small area). It also only ever dealt Magic Damage, so AD assassins didn't get any benefit from their Lethality when applying its damage. Taking all of that into account, if Electrocute were changed to take Thunderlord's AOE damage (which would probably have been made larger) and its proc pattern, it'd be far more powerful than it is right now. That's not even taking the cooldown into account, which is a lot lower early on, and still quite a bit lower in the later parts of the game.
It was also so universally applicable to any champion that rarely could you go wrong in picking it up. League of Thunderlords is something I did not enjoy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vIteEoBA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-25T13:38:55.029+0000) > > You lost me when you said Pantheon had a good backstory. Super useful reply....
Atreus has a good backstory. The entity that is pantheon is more or less missing one.
PitchBlack4 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aAVRQExF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-26T15:16:07.587+0000) > > I love how it shows Ryze interacting with many other champions. Though I have to question his logic of putting all the world runes in one place. > > That's just begging to bite him in the ass. How do you think we, the Summoners, are using them?
We, the summoners, don't exist in the lore anymore. Remember?
: Ive never seen a jax knocked out of mid air.
I have played enough Poppy to know that he gets stopped.
Noctús (NA)
: What are these runes Ryze talks about?
World Runes. Think of nukes that naturally occur in nature but people can hold onto them like actual nukes.
Show more


Level 76 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion