: Weird cthuloid monstrosity you need to put down by kicking its ass with some well placed fisticuffs? I’m in.
Agreed. I'm officially on Team Ornn now. Let's go kill Cthulhu bear.
: Kayle and Morgana biographies and Udyr short story
Their story isn’t as perspective heavy as it once was, but it does help paint them with their different ideologies. Kayle, despite her actions, truly wants to do good and feels that she has the power to cut away, whereas Morgana is more empathetic even with the power through her and seeks to help those. I ended up liking Morgana more because she’s what I hope I’d be as someone in her shoes. It’s interesting that the power of the aspect was split between the two of them. Does this mean it doesn’t influence their personalities like the others do? And them being around in the early days of Demacia make me wonder if they have interactions with Poppy or Galio.
: Every single assasin and adc takes more skill to play than Malphite, and it's not even close.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EKVdsvWb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T23:57:56.911+0000) > > That’s so old people haven’t used it since season 2. My age is showing with this post.
But are you the hip grandpa or the cranky grandpa?
: The biggest problem with the Kayle rework
That’s so old people haven’t used it since season 2.
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IMmE9fAq,comment-id=00160001,timestamp=2019-02-18T21:50:14.749+0000) > > You're completely ignoring that aside from the support role's item which require an ally nearby to use, every form of gold comes from doing damage to and killing things. Every role needs a baseline amount of damage to farm, damage towers, take objectives, kill jungle and epic monsters. Additionally, how the fuck are you going to solo lane without any damage? You'd just lose every trade, get forced under tower, denied CS (that you already don't even have the damage to get in the first place) poked out of lane, denied any form of gold and exp until you're so starved they can dive you under tower repeatedly, which you also won't be able to punish, as again you want them to have no damage. . . > > I'm sure glad assasssin mains aren't in charge of balancing shit; probably coun't even balance a gyroscope. The problem is right now a tank building no damage items can 1v1 a lot of champions who are building damage. Tanks should absorb damage, not deal it.
This is a PvP game. Damage needs to exist for it to work. If this was a PvE game with raids and dungeons, I’d agree with you and focus on tank durability and aggro mechanics. But this is not the case.
: I agree tanks and tank items need to be rebalanced. Tanks should take very little damage, but should be able to get out DPS’d by a support. Sorry, you can have one or the other. Damage or tankiness. Tanks like Ornn put out so much damage they shouldn’t even be considered tanks.
Then you wouldn't have tanks be able to function in top or jungle.
: Gotta say: Not a fan of Kayle's new look.
I didn't notice until now but that picture really emphasizes her thighs.
: The game that everyone talked about like it was a *new* Mega Man game? Yeah, I remember the hype - and it was hype because it was a new version of an old thing they loved.
Created by the original creator and funded because of promises to recapture what made the original great. It was a focus on Nostalgia. New things aren’t bad because they’re new. But wearing rose tinted glasses when looking to the past blinds us to the problems they hold.
: Kaylee was already dead. She's supposed to counter champs like my main, Darius, but I'll tell ya right now, in her current state I dump in her most games. I'd even say her current version is so outdated and boring that she's basically hot trash. When's the last time you saw a Kaylee main? I can't think of even one. Out of a hundred games, I might see her once or twice. Maybe more in normals when she's on free rotation. You just automatically hate reworks. You were dead set against it before it was even revealed. It's kind of like Democrats automatically hate Trump, no matter what he says or does. Even if it's something both parties would agree is good if it were any other president.
I think maybe you should cut out the political reference just to be safe.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnjLyb9o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T18:17:45.743+0000) > > Considering how much Ryze gets changed, I don’t think there’s an eggshell issue when reworking a champion of higher ups at Riot. Well, we also don't know how available the higher ups are when it comes to consultation. Like Tryndamere is THE #1 at Riot, so I can't imagine he's got the free time to discuss a VGU like other people do.
I don’t think he’d be involved in the discussion. Especially since he’s in R&D now.
: Kickstarter has quite a few reminders for people who think everything new is great and can't possibly go wrong. Even if you narrow your focus to League, there have been quite a number of *abysmal* reworks to cause people to pause before praising a new rework.
New? Kickstarter has a lot of nostalgia based projects that end up showcasing how things don’t age. Remember Mighty Number 9?
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnjLyb9o,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T18:12:35.286+0000) > > Honestly I think the only reason he isn’t higher is that no one has any ideas to bring out his thematic. > > His thematic sadly works for his kit, and thematic is important in champion design. Plus, he was visually updated in 2012, near Ashe and Annie's VU, so he's technically in a better state than others at least visually. There's also the matter that Tryndamere is the "avatar" hero of the CEO of Riot, so there's probably a lot of walking on eggshells when it comes to talks of VGUs for Tryndamere.
Considering how much Ryze gets changed, I don’t think there’s an eggshell issue when reworking a champion of higher ups at Riot.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfGc7PmEzPk&t=0s The rework seems cool, but removing Akali heal, but keeping Kayle is bull shit. Kayle has an invulnerability for fuck sake.
Well for one, Kayle might not keep her heal since Riot is giving champions a three month grace period after release before they decide to take drastic changes. This is why Akali lost her heal, to try and better balance her.
: Kayle kept her heal and Akali didn't. (After the nerfs)
Did they already reveal Kayle’s full kit? I have yet to see a heal (I could have missed it in the gameplay).
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnjLyb9o,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T18:02:49.558+0000) > > Explain to me why something one dimensional like Trynda is allowed to stay mostly the same? I can't, because Tryndamere IS ALSO one of the champions who is in need of a rework.
Honestly I think the only reason he isn’t higher is that no one has any ideas to bring out his thematic. His thematic sadly works for his kit, and thematic is important in champion design.
Jikker (NA)
: Why are Morgana's Wings on her...em....rear
Maybe she just lost the four upper wings?
wolvius (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-18T15:14:10.305+0000) > > Honestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins. > > Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem. Don't forget cassio, see and ryze both F'd up abyssal mask as a defensive option for non-tanks.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PBBArFyl,comment-id=0000000200000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T16:40:32.165+0000) > > So even Sion and Poppy were garbage reworks? Pretty much, yeah.
Ah. Well, respectfully, I disagree. I feel the older versions of them were more problematic for the game and couldn’t be allowed to be strong meta wise.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncd7HU8l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T16:41:59.012+0000) > > I thought they were changing something in Morg’s kit but I cannot see anything new beyond her model in the trailer. Riot did say they weren't going to change much about her kit from the beginning.
Yeah but I thought they were changing her W or ult.
Done25 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ncd7HU8l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T16:41:59.012+0000) > > I thought they were changing something in Morg’s kit but I cannot see anything new beyond her model in the trailer. > > It looks like they removed most support aspects from Kayle’s kit (but I could be very much wrong) and focused more on the auto attack hyper carry. > > I’m interested in seeing how the abilities fully work. After she Q's Sylas she kneels on the ground and slams her hand down before/as he dies. That's probably her new W. R seems changed up as well.
That just looked like a new animation for her pool honestly.
Craktite (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-18T15:14:10.305+0000) > > Honestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins. > > Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem. But Maokai, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain Ryze are ap bruiser !
No. The first three are tanks and the rear are battle mages.
: KAYLE & MORGANA REWORK TEASER LEAKED
I thought they were changing something in Morg’s kit but I cannot see anything new beyond her model in the trailer. It looks like they removed most support aspects from Kayle’s kit (but I could be very much wrong) and focused more on the auto attack hyper carry. I’m interested in seeing how the abilities fully work.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PBBArFyl,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-02-18T16:28:50.781+0000) > > But Taric though. Taric is a garbage rework, like all of them. Same with Kayle and Morg's rework, i can already tell you that, from what i saw in the teaser.
So even Sion and Poppy were garbage reworks?
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PBBArFyl,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T14:15:17.027+0000) > > Man you really are a dickk to just about anything who disagrees with you,but I'm just sitting here eating popcorn reading your posts lol Unrelated, but you're almost at 1K upvotes. GJ lol
1k? We gotta bump those up. Them’s rookie numbers!
: Thoughts on the Nunu Rework from a (Former) Nunu One Trick
I’d love some better base stats on Nunu since he always feels so squishy early.
: Tanks SUCKS, building armor feels horrible, champion that are not tank killers are tank killers.
Do you have a clip of how the fight went? Just a duskblade and longsword isn't really enough to shred a tank, and while I bet conquerer was involved, I'd still like to see how you approached this fight.
: If they are so afraid that {{champion:105}} and {{champion:245}} will abuse AP bruiser items that they are willing to leave the class as a whole gutted, then why not just adjust them so they aren't such a horrible threat and be done with it.
Honestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins. Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem.
: I disagree about the comment "all reworks suck". That's incredibly subjective. I for one think that nunu, we, taric, galio, akali, aatrox were all good reworks (some of which were out of whack but still malleable enough to be worked into something good), but if you see my response abive, I think the healthy solution for everyone is to introduce shadow warriors. After all, no one likes losing their main to a rework
I think the downside to an introduction to shadow versions of reworks as the originals is that Riot still has to balance those originals on top of the rework, and a rework usually is made because the originals needed more than just balancing. Old Sion for example had a kit that either worked full AD or full AP, with no real inbetween. Old Poppy was a mess, and old GP was too RNG focused with his ult. Keeping shadows of the old champion just seems to make a rework of them pointless, you might as well make a new champion, except that new champion has a similar mechanic or ability to the previous that’s sometimes a direct copy (GP Q and W, Sion W, Poppy E, etc).
Alzon (NA)
: That won’t be true so long as {{item:3748}} exists.
Titanic isn't really that good with titanic. He's not that auto heavy outside of his passive.
: Where did I say sion isn't classified as a tank???????? At this point im gonna ask why YOU think hes not a tank....see how that feels -.- At most I said he is pretty iffy as a tank and that is due to him being allowed to have more damage than most tanks because he is unreliable while most tanks have more immediate abilities. But then you repeat my argument and say he is unreliable, as if you cant even read. Then you ask if Im saying he isn't a tank? Why are you even talking to me if you are gonna troll lol. "They arnt classified as tanks" that is plural, is sion more than one champion? No ofc not, im clearly not talking about sion I was talking about the rest of the champions listed by the op, sion is more "tank" than all of those champions I was talking about combined.
You said calling Sion a tank is iffy.
: That's literally what I said, he does more damage because he is unreliable. And ofc they arnt classified as tanks, they are reliant on killing the enemy in order to actually tank rather than ccing them and having more than barebones defensive mechanics.
Sion isn't classified as a tank because he's reliant on killing the enemy? Sion isn't reliant on killing the enemy.
: And even then, he does a lot more damage than most tanks. So calling him a tank is pretty iffy, hes awarded with extra damage for having a less reliable kit that can be completely dodged by mobility even when it should have already been too late. Almost all of those champions are reliant on healing / shielding in order to tank, some cant even last that long unless they kill whoever is doing the most damage to them.
Tanks are more classified by their CC than their defensive mechanics. Sion is a tank, his damage is high for his class because of how unreliable it is.
: Conqueror is a necessary evil
Poppy’s Q only does a full 16 when you get hit with both procs. Usually she can only land two if she stuns you, or if you just stay in it. Frankly I would rather have all the 16 on the second proc. Sion has high base damage because all of his abilities are unreliable. His Q can be cancelled or dodged relatively easily, his W can be broken or you can get out of range relatively easily, his E can be avoided by not using your minions for cover (and it got nerfed), and his ult is incredibly telegraphed. One could argue that all Sion needs to do is land his CC to do his full combo, but that’s literally anyone with a CC ability in their combo. I don’t play Ornn enough to argue for him.
: By running in popularity, you mean having a constantly updated, free to play game that has evolving graphics, interesting characters, constant bugfixing, and more? There's plently of other reasons league is popular. You can't just disprove balance sucking by saying the game is popular, when a bunch of other factors exist that Riot does well that contribute to League's popularity. And who said Riot was making the game unfun? I said they were serving their bias instead of balancing.
Other games do just that, why is league on top above them? And while you're right that popularity doesn't disprove balance sucking, it's a strong contender for the balance being descent in the game. People wouldn't keep playing a game if it was always unbalanced against them. Even popular bruiser players keep coming back.
Aseraan (EUW)
: No i get it but for real yo i love it when pplt alking about how tanks are broken than says garenXD
Oh my god I'm so tired of people doing that XD.
Aseraan (EUW)
: Cant wait till sion gets revisited into juggernaut class and there will be no tanks in topXDDD
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2MwwOEYy,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T01:58:30.811+0000) > > To be perfectly frank, if it wasn’t really a problem then Riot wouldn’t be changing it just because a couple idiots on a forum said so. > > I don’t understand why people claim Riot both doesn’t listen to the community and listens to too much. Because thats exactly what happens sometimes. - Dynamic Queue - Positional Ranked - Less Control Wards in inventory - patch 8.10 - this one I want to blame hashinshin on, and I like how he complains about vertical jungling which is a result of these changes which we all saw coming. ____ While I agree conq needs hit, and what hashinshin is saying about mage itemization is just dumb, but he's right about the culprit being tank's powercrept to being juggernauts who don't itemize damage, forcing actual juggernauts and bruisers to power creep with runes that beat them, otherwise they get shit on. Conq needs hit, but tanks need a massive overhaul as a class (gutting damage while buffing utility.)
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2MwwOEYy,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-16T02:28:32.221+0000) > > Because thats exactly what happens sometimes. > > - Dynamic Queue > > - Positional Ranked > > - Less Control Wards in inventory > > - patch 8.10 > > ____ > > While I agree conq needs hit, and what hashinshin is saying about mage itemization is just dumb, but he's right about the culprit being tank's powercrept to being juggernauts who don't itemize damage, forcing actual juggernauts and bruisers to power creep with runes that beat them, otherwise they get shit on. Conq needs hit, but tanks need a massive overhaul as a class (gutting damage while buffing utility.) When I said, "Riot doesn't listen while at the same time listens too much" I mean that Riot is not 100% influenced by the community. If they see things that they find problematic, they'll try and deal with them. Now does this mean that Riot will do things the community asked for? Yes, but that doesn't mean they always do that. Look at all the fucking Karma mains who haven't gotten attention or a return of her shield bomb. Riot listens but it also thinks.
: > To be perfectly frank, if it wasn’t really a problem then Riot wouldn’t be changing it just because a couple idiots on a forum said so. Yes, they would. They have plently of other times. Thornmail's current state was made in reaction to idiots claiming ADCs "draintank against tanks" despite evidence to the contrary. Also, when has Riot had any level of consistent balance-based reasoning for their balance changes? We see every patch that balance changes are not based on trying to balance the game. > I don’t understand why people claim Riot both doesn’t listen to the community and listens too much. Because Riot's balance when it comes "listening" to the community only works when it serves their bias. The balance team has ZERO bruiser top laner players. But it has a tank player? How about the mage players there while mages are the most broken class going unnerfed? How about the fact Meddler is a support main when supports became the most broken class under him? How about Yasuo who gets buffed every time he's weak? Stop pretending Riot has any good rationale on trying to balance the game when we see every patch that balance changes contradict the facts.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2MwwOEYy,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T02:26:54.861+0000) > > > Stop pretending Riot has any good rationale on trying to balance the game when we see every patch that balance changes contradict the facts. I'll stop pretending that the guys who kept an online multiplayer game running in popularity for nearly ten years have good rationale when you stop pretending that everything Riot does is meant to make the game unfun for Bruisers/ADCs/Tanks/Whatever flavor the boards is in currently (though I believe you're always in the bruiser crowd).
: And what's wrong with Conqueror? If you look statistically, Conqueror isn't an issue. Have you tried playing a bruiser without Conqueror into anything? You deal no damage, especially into a tank. Now it's being changed into a range abused rune because idiots complained about it when it is a non-problem.
To be perfectly frank, if it wasn’t really a problem then Riot wouldn’t be changing it just because a couple idiots on a forum said so. I don’t understand why people claim Riot both doesn’t listen to the community and listens too much.
sunamcm (NA)
: We should be allowed to flame.
And eye for an eye leads to someone being blind. Ignore it and move the fuck on.
: Sion nerf
Yes. More nerfs happen. Deal with it.
Moody P (NA)
: I said "a" not "the" most tanks combine humongous damage with consistent CC output (for new tanks anyway). Sejuani mainly had her R for her hard disable and the rest of her contribution was being a major damage threat and pumping out slows. I would call that a bruiser goal.
Wasn't her Q always hard CC displacement though?
Moody P (NA)
: in relation to LOL yes I think "big defense" is now a defining trait of a tank
So, then {{champion:57}} is not a tank because he has no innate defense, unless you count his heal, which if you do implies that {{champion:122}} is a tank because he has that big heal. {{champion:20}} doesn't have a big innate defense either, outside of maybe his ultimate, and unless you don't count the heal. {{champion:154}} also does not have a big innate defense outside of healing. Does this make him a bruiser over a tank? I don't think big innate defense is the sole defining trait of a tank, Moody.
Moody P (NA)
: well amumu reduced autos by a flat amount on his E passive but yes I would consider him an AP bruiser as well
So to be a tank you believe that they must have significant innate defenses?
Moody P (NA)
: i considered old sejuani a bruiser and not a true tank on account of her lack of significant innate defenses (some shit armor value passive isn't much) as well as her high offensive acaling but yes.
Wait, does that make Amumu a bruiser because he doesn’t really have a defensive scaling?
ApexRiven (EUW)
: Look, its fine for tank to do dmg but for poppy to do 40 % of my hp with 1 combo on q that has no cooldow around lvl 9 or i lose 3rd my health from 1 sion Q, I dont think its possible to trade with volibear as buiser at all stage of game ( beside fiora maybe) or ornn that 3 shoot full hp orianna well building full mr.
Poppy’s Q does at most 16% max health physical damage and her base. I don’t think that’s doing 40% of your life alone. If you got knocked into a wall, then you’re gonna be punished by her full combo. That’s how CC combos work.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pb7WEaeE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T20:44:29.610+0000) > > the fact that they shouldn't have % damage at all This could almost be a full discussion thread on it’s own in regard to the merits and drawbacks. I’m on the opposite side and see some value, if done correctly. Sejuani and Amumu had it for years (Sejuani prior to her rework) and I don’t think anyone really complained about theirs. This could be factored into amount and application. Old Sejuani and Amumu had it on W and..Despair (I think that’s Amumu’s W? Don’t play him much), which were AoE over time and in small doses. Maokai’s got better when it shifted to E instead of being on his W. Ornn’s %current damage was healthier than his %max. When on the surface, it makes sense for them to have it, for those tank vs tank matchups, without allowing them to have super high bases. The problem is when it doesn’t leave room for their opponent to trade in terms of reliance, or does too much damage in it’s use. I think an issue is in their numbers/reliance/spamability on the ability with their % damage. Maokai’s is unreliable and a lower amount, Old Sejuani and Amumu need time to apply it. Ornn’s biggest issue is his got increased and is on his core spell that was also his defensive spell. I don’t think it’s quite right to say take it away from all tanks, because that would include tanks that weren’t actually issues with it. I think first is looking to see if it can be made better, before outright removing.
So long as %damage has clear work arounds then imo it is fine. This is why I find Sion’s shield to be the best example of tank %damage, you can pop it before it blows or get out of the area, and if you can’t get out odds are it’s because you’re CCed which allows him to do that combo. This is the same reason why I think off of Poppy’s Q %damage should be on the second proc rather than half on first, half on second.
: With Demolish rune, there does not seemed to be value in buying Zzrot
What? Portal can be used to stall lanes being pushed and it can push towers while you’re not in the lane. It’s still useful.
Saevum (NA)
: His W should not be point and click to begin with, it offers too much reward for how easy is to use.
Making it a skillshot just gives him another free dash to use as an escape though.
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Ralanr

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