Meddler (NA)
: Current thinking is we'll generally be keeping TFT systems separate from those of other game modes. You won't earn champion mastery for example because you're not playing as a specific champion. Missions wise TFT will probably have its own unique sets of missions, rather than overlapping with regular ones, though can imagine might do some at some point that could be completed in either context.
Thanks! Have a good weekend.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
How will TFT be supported by out-of-game mechanics? For example, do you earn any champion mastery, how much XP would you get for win/loss, and would you earn tokens for events? Would there be any TFT exclusive missions, and would TFT games count towards other kinds of missions like "play as Sona" or "get 10 kills" stuff?
: Queen Yuumi: A Tactical Premade Gamemode
If priests have to take Heal, doesn't that make every champion have a healing ability? Couldn't most champions take Aery, Font of Life, or Redemption to otherwise get a heal? Why don't knights have any sort of kit requirement? Shouldn't they be melee only, or need to have some form of hard CC?
: ***
Previously his ult granted total MS, which was applied after all other changes. Normally a +10% movement speed boost would increase your movement speed by 10% of your flat MS. For instance, Yi with 355 movement speed would get +35.5 movement speed from a normal 10% boost. With upgraded boots, his base flat MS would be 400, so he'd get +40 from a 10% boost (before soft caps). However, if Master Yi already had a 10% boost, making his MS already 440, he would not gain 44 more MS, he would instead now have a 20% boost to his movement speed, meaning 480 instead of 484. However, with the old ult, he gained total MS, which would indeed give him a multiplicative bonus to his speed rather than an additive one. So, let's say Master Yi has upgraded boots, ghostblade, and he activates ghostblade right before pressing R. Before 9.10, he'd be getting 440 x1.2 x1.25 speed, or 660 movement speed at rank one (before soft caps). After 9.10, he'll instead be getting 440 x1.55=682 movement speed. Rank 3, the difference is 440 x1.2 x1.45=765.6 vs. 440 x1.75=770. Basically, the more %bonus movement speed master Yi gets (via items, dragon buffs, allied champions like Sona/Janna, etc.), the less of a buff this is for him.
Drcider (NA)
: What a fucking joke, this pretty much confirmed that riot's skin team doesn't listen to their community at all. Lux got not one, but two new skins while some champs haven't had a decent skin their entire lifespan, Kled, Camille, Ivern, and plenty others. The theme is cool and the skins look nice, but can you give some of the champions that actually need them and haven't seen any love of care put into their skins???
Camille has a great skin, and a pretty good esports skin, too.
: Garbage Vayne and Riven changes. Doesn't address any of the Frustration.
They nerfed a lot of the healing Riven gets from Conq, which is what broke her in the first place. Vayne nerf is a meme, but rageblade taking a huge hit affects her quite a bit.
NasEjos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=82cE8haV,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-04-26T17:18:53.960+0000) > > Yes! Guinsoo's is also under consideration at the moment. Not for a rework level thing, but for tuning. Currently I have a change in testing where Phantom hit triggers every third attack (rather than every other attack) and its %pen is a flat 15% (rather than 6.5-15% based on level). > > We'll be keeping this in mind while evaluating Vayne and Master Yi. What do you think of PhantomHit triggering as half or 2/3 damage? Including procs that it causes such as Vayne W?
Vayne W and Yi E are true damage so that wouldn't work. Even if Vayne W could be lowered in damage, she wouldn't be affected at all if she stacked her W right so her regular attacks popped it instead of her rageblade procs. Overall this would just nerf champions who use the ability normally while buffing champions like Master Yi who have benefits from on-hit that aren't pure damage. Rageblade would still stack things like Master Yi passive and Varus W.
: > [{quoted}](name=Raven Redeemed,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=82cE8haV,comment-id=000b00000006,timestamp=2019-04-26T18:41:33.339+0000) > > I suspect people will be frustrated with the item as long as it has phantom hit. What if it amplified on-hits (kind of like stormrazor) instead of double applying them. I bet people would find that less agravating. Just a suggestion for consideration. And it wouldn't break people like Vayne and Xin. There's a reason nobody is *designed* to have a 2-hit passive: there isn't enough counterplay to it. (Especially when they also have a reset!) Increasing on-hit *damage*, even by an apparently bonkers amount like 50%, wouldn't distort the play patterns of X-hit abilities. Phantom hit is unbalanceable.
Phantom hit is balanceable from the perspective of like Renekton and Shyvana, where a single instance of damage gets the double on-hit.
YaShIr0 (EUW)
: So basically, you are planning some minor or major rework on Vayne and Riven ? the problem of Riven, is that she didn't get any direct buff to be in that spot, and I also think that the new conqueror need some tweaks, the idea of healing and making true damage at the same time if over powered, that need some balancing. The spear of Shojin is also broken, so far the only item that gives you 20% CDR, so it's easy for Rivens to get access to CDR in early and then snowball.
Black Cleaver and Triforce also both give 20% CDR and work on Riven well. There's also mage and tank items that give 20% CDR.
nsnlol (EUW)
: I hope you leave Rageblade as is and instead nerf Vayne's w. It's a very strong anti-tank ability and it's power is not even demonstrated in the current meta. At full rageblade stacks it's 6% true damage per auto. Vayne really needs attack speed to feel smooth to play and nerfing her W would set her powerspike to later when she completes two attack speed items, zerkers and IE rather than Guinsoo's and Bork. She has really strong AD scalings and those builds are a lot fun, it's just tougher until you finish the set of items described above. About Riven please don't nerf her. People just don't know how to play against her, she is such a fun champion. The only nerfs I would be ok with would be base or scaling AD.
I agree with you, but Vayne W does an average 7% max health in true damage with rageblade active. And this is before Bork, too.
: am I wrong or is this not fine for kaisa? her passive is every 4 hits right so the extra hit being on the 3rd auto not 2nd is fine for her right? I would assume they would make some changes to the costing or stats for making this change
Her passive damages on every hit, and every 5 hits it pops for extra %missing health damage. With current rageblade her passive would pop after 4 and 7 hits, with new change it would be after 4 and 8 hits. Not to mention the actual damage from a single stack (or rageblade passive) would do down considerably.
: Urgot can also ignore shields, but you are correct, all these other examples you mentioned are executes as well.
If we're gonna include anything that deals %missing health damage as an execute then Morg W is an execute, Kai'Sa passive is an execute and Lee Sin Q2 is an execute.
: Riot already commented that for champions like Darius, knowing when to use your ultimate to kill the target is part of their _skill check_. It is supposed to differentiate the good Darius players from the bad ones, so it is highly unlikely that they will add this feature for him. While Garen and Cho don't have a marker on the enemy health bar, they have indicators which show you if the ability would kill the enemy or not.
Garen only has an indicator on his R if it's against the villain, in which case the ability does true damage. Makes sense, since enemies can have a lot more variables in effect that reduce magic damage.
: Execution is a specific mechanic that only Urgot and Pyke have.
{{champion:122}} R could be considered an execute. Varying true damage that requires a kill to get the maximum benefit from it. Would benefit from a threshold indicator, but Riot has said that knowing when to R is a part of his skill expression.
: > [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=nInAuVGo,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-04-09T23:36:07.154+0000) > > Sona literally is fighting in a war. Since it is a fantasy war, she uses her music to raise the morale of her army and make them keep fighting and fight better. But even in real wars, this is true to some extent, taking out the magical element of course. > > The entire premise to League of Legends is these might champions come together to fight along side massive armies and against the other nations' champions to be the victor. If Sona is not fighting in a war, then why is she even a champion in the first place? She was selected to fight for her country because of her great war abilities, it is just through music rather than through swords, fire magic, guns, or bow and arrows. Not sure what you're getting at, but Sona does *not* participate in anything war or battle related as far as we know. What it sounds like you're referring to is her status as a champion and fighting ingame, which was all made non-canon years ago. With this in mind, changing Sona's title to "The Song of War" is not befitting of her character, and if you were to change her personality to match such an aggressive title, it would certainly alienate many of her fans. Yes, Sona has the power to do harm with her magic, but that doesn't make her a warrior by any stretch of the imagination. More likely she learned how to do it so she wouldn't be completely worthless and helpless should she or allies find themselves in trouble (see the Ryze cinematic for an alright example) As for the actual concept of the rework, there are a couple of criticisms that I have to level out. The primary one being that a kit of this style would *require* her player to have good ping. Playing League at higher pings would become difficult, but playing this Sona would become next to impossible at a much lower ping than many other champions, which imo is something that definitely should be avoided. Also, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but her passive sounds heavily like she is heavily basic-attack focused without other proper ways of combating enemies, which forces her to often be in basic attack range even moreso than current Sona. I somewhat feel like that is a conflict of interest for any general enchanter. On the grand scheme of things I honestly don't feel like Sona needs a gameplay update that badly. She especially isn't one that needs one urgently. I think she's honestly fine as she is right now. Who cares if she's boring? You have over 150 other champions to choose from, and tons of her mains (myself included) have loads of fun playing this "braindead no-fun" support
Technically, we know Sona has gone on at least one quest with Ryze in which she did some battling. Doesn't really make her a warrior, though.
: Can you create IG Xayah ?
It wouldn't be fair to every other worlds winner if IG got 7 skins instead of 6.
USAstar (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=hG9jEX54,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-08T12:21:53.684+0000) > > Yeah old Fiora's not coming back. Leblanc and Rengar were back. She will be back too.
Leblanc and Rengar weren't full reworks/reverts. She will not be back. Good riddance.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: First, Bami + Liandry will never be safe way to waveclear. They still have to stay in the middle of minions to waveclear, which later in the game (when people start grouping) would be viable only for splitpushing. Until then, the AP ratio has minimal effect. Second, why is everyone mentioning {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} ? Does no one know that Bami's Passive does NOT proc spell effects? People would still have to spam spells in order to maintain the debuffs on opponents/waveclear. Third, if it really is that big of a problem, Riot can easily tweak the AP Ratio or make it work only vs Champions, so that Bami's waveclear is left unchanged.
Most champions who can use AP and Sunfire, like Mundo and Amumu, have spammable/toggle spells that do in fact apply those items. Allowing champs like Mundo to just build Liandries+Sunfire+Abyssal and run around tanking infinite damage while melting enemies with aura damage is not exactly a fair gameplay pattern.
: Sunfire Cape / Cinderhulk Scale with AP?
{{champion:36}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:517}} among others would abuse this too well. Would have incredible synergy with {{item:3151}} /{{item:3001}}
: pretty sure literally all they changed was it's aura size and nothing else.
they also buffed the damage amp from +10% to +15%, so champs who should be using it now use it better.
: Abyssal mask has a bad build path
There's really no way they could give it a CDR component and have it be the same item. Either they give it Kindlegem and have increase the HP+cost of the item, or they take out the catalyst and make the final version worse for not having the eternity passive. They could give it a unique component item with MR +CDR, but that would be odd and not really worth the time to make.
USAstar (NA)
: Customized real Fiora keycaps
Yeah old Fiora's not coming back.
: Item to Extend Abilities
How would that work with abilities like Anivia R, Garen E, Janna Q, or any dash ability? It would be a mechanical nightmare, as well as a balance one.
Ðeathwish (EUNE)
: SAVE ZED'S FACE
They made Sona an alien in the Odyssey universe, why not Zed?
: AP Bruiser Item
Usually you'd want to avoid an item having a dead unique passive on a champion. Champs without hard CC in their kit can't take Aftershock, but it's much harder to limit an item to "champs with hard CC only" Sure, manaless champions can pick up Seraphs and Muramana as really weak AP and AD items, but they have no reason to as the statlines are very bad for them. However, for this item, the statlines of AP+Armor+Health+CDR are too valuable for many champions to avoid, meaning even champions like Vladimir, Mordekaiser, Kassadin, etc. want to pick it up anyway, even though they won't be able to use the passive effect. Another problem comes with the fact that this "passive" has a cooldown, and you can't control when you activate it. If you want to save it for a duel coming up, but need to peel yourself with a quick Singed fling or similar, then you don't have that passive for 40 seconds. This would also work oddly for abilities that apply hard CC to multiple enemies (Malph R, from your example). Would it mark all of them, or just one of them? If just one, which one? What about abilities that CC champions at different times, like Maokai R? Would the first hit proc it, even if that's not the intended target? Also problematic is the fact that this is a hextech item, and therefore competing greatly with Protobelt, which many AP bruisers use to stick to their targets and burst them down, and Gunblade, which performs a similar function on a different set of champions. Even if you bought two because you wanted both actives, you would never be able to use Gunblade or Protobelt because your own hard CC would constantly be putting them both on cooldown. A solution to this would either be to remove the revolver from the recipe and make this a non-hextech item (have it build from {{item:3191}}{{item:3067}} only, maybe) or change the item to something that is activated. A new active could include dealing damage in a circular AoE and briefly silencing nearby enemies, similar to Blitzcrank ult, or providing yourself with a decaying shield. Finally, it seems weird that you'd get NO stats from finishing this item. You could probably give the item an end value of 50 armor, 85 AP, and 300 HP, in exchange for a much higher price (it does have a lot of stuff in one item, after all).
EdgeLady (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cWAwkjBm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-07T00:19:42.814+0000) > > He should be played by Jared Leto Not sure why this is downvoted; people must not have seen his performance in Blade Runner 2049. If he emulates that performance I think he would actually work for the role.
He was so good as The Joker
: I want a movie about Jhin
He should be played by Jared Leto
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEE6vIr2,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-04-06T21:12:48.462+0000) > > Did you not see the Riot post about her winrates? 54%+ and SUPER high banrates seem pretty OP to me. Is that mid only? Because most of her ban rates are from support. She has always been highly contested in that role, and Riot never felt the need to nerf her. She didn't get much of a buff when they reworked Kayle, so why is she such a problem now? She only has about a 3% pick rate in mid. A win rate of > 50% is meaningless in that case. There is also the constant problem of Riot trying to manipulate the state of the game. They always meddle to steer the game one way or the other, and they fail a lot. It's a never ending cycle. Make champions that are enjoyable to play in multiple roles, and let the players decide how they want to use them.
She got a pretty huge buff to her W in her "rework" along with a sizable buff to her R. Her W being so strong was making her midlane strong, because mid maxes W first and it became much too strong of a CS tool, without any interaction. Morgana is still fine in mid. She's still stronger than before, just not TOO strong and not so strong where support is super far behind. I agree with Riot wanting to keep certain champions out of certain roles. If Teemo could jungle, he would be one of the least interactive junglers there is, and that's a toxic playstyle (no pun intended). Similarly, Neeko was pushed out of ADC because the play pattern that emerged on her was WAY too strong compared to her other roles. After the dust settled and the build was gutted, they added some power back to keep Neeko ADC alive, but not OP. That's the process of balance, you very rarely get it right the first try, it usually takes a couple iterations, and systematic changes always shake things up a bit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEE6vIr2,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-04-06T21:12:48.462+0000) > > Did you not see the Riot post about her winrates? 54%+ and SUPER high banrates seem pretty OP to me. Pretty sure she is banned more for support than Mid lane since she counters alot of supports also since you are talking about winrates and bans... {{champion:67}} {{champion:238}} where be the nerfs fam?
Vayne should have her ult buff reverted, nothing more. I don't know the stats on Zed but he could probably use a love-tap as well. Also, I'm not Riot. I can't nerf champions.
: Here's a funny story: I just Morg midded and went 11/1/5, literally having ALL my team's kills for the first ~ 16 minutes. All other lanes were 1/0 or 0/1 etc. I somehow with 3 AP items ended up with only 14k damage. Meanwhile...... the Jhin, who was a late arrival to the game and got 8 kills after 16 minutes..... did 26k. Yup. Equal treatment.
Having more kills =/= dealing more damage =/= champion power. Jhin most likely had better CS than you, did more damage to turrets by poking his enemies out of lane, and scaled late with his damage to get some kills late, like any ADC should. If anything, your example shows how many kills Morgana can get and secure with little AP from items.
: It's just Riot pandering to more whining. She wasn't OP as a mid laner. Plenty of mages can one shot a wave at high enough levels. If she was boring to play against, too bad. Not every champion should be fighting every minute. We need more mages who can counter roaming champions and high cc teams.
Did you not see the Riot post about her winrates? 54%+ and SUPER high banrates seem pretty OP to me.
: I think the reason for her swift nerfing is because in the midlane she maxes W, which by rank 3, and some AP should clear caster minions, and do a fair amount of damage to the rest of the wave. All Morgana really does in the midlane is try to push the enemy in she doesn't really sport interactive gameplay there. I honestly wish they'd just changed Tormented Shadow into something different, but honestly her power budget is stretched pretty thin with having one of the longest roots in the game, and a CC immunity shield. It's definitely not as bad as when her passive used to heal on _all_ targets, and just made it a W spam lane 24/7 where she could probably sustain for quite a bit in lane.
Well back when it healed off ALL targets, it was only 10% healing and not 20%, and was reduced by 2/3 when using her W or R. So essentially, if she used her W once every wave, she would get 20% healing from one wave assuming all minions were in it, but now she gets that value only when on cannon minions. Now she also gets full healing when her W hits champions too, but that's more interactive.
: Id just like to point out how everyone is losing their minds over a w nerf on midlane morgana - But shes only even this way because the % missing health damage on w was tripled the patch she was reworked. This is still regardless a net buff no matter how you put it compared to before. No one was kicked anywhere.
Almost replied to you again but noticed your name. See other comment.
: She got a missing health and base and max damage buffs for her w damage the patch she was VU, as well as some bonus damage buffs. Explain how she is being "beaten up" by pulling some of it back? Not even all of it mind you.
Most of her W damage from AP scaling has been pulled back. Minimum AP ratio changed from 22 to 14, maximum changed from 33 to 37.8, meaning only at 62.5% missing health or more it has better AP scaling. Meanwhile, the base damage changes are still in effect, which break even at 32.3% missing health. Higher base damage power VS scaling is what makes a good support, and one of the reasons Brand makes such an effective support is how much power he gets with or without AP. Her clear was buffed with the change, yes (partially due to the +1 AD I'd wager) but it was too much, and now they've put it back to a spot roughly equal if not worse for Morgana mid, while making it stronger for Morgana support (or Tank Morgana).
l MrD l (NA)
: they shouldnt have nerfed the W damage just reduce the damage it does to minions ... the waveclear was very strong but the damage now pushed her out of mid
easy way to do this is change the %missing health damage increase to just a %missing health damage. Minions have considerably less HP than champions, so dealing 5% of a champion's missing health per tick and dealing 5% of a minion's missing health is a big difference. That being said, her W did probably need an overall damage-down, so I'm fine with what they did.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEE6vIr2,comment-id=00060001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T21:12:42.834+0000) > > Her ult did not get literally nothing. Her ult now gives her movement speed towards chained enemies, up to 55% at rank 3. Hyperbole, my friend. Her ult got ms that doesn't help you survive and you are forced to zhonya's during 99% of the time anyway = pretty much nothing. They said they were looking at usability and safety in a teamfight and then proceeded to not rework anything
There's a difference between hyperbole and being objectively wrong. Saying you have a hundred dogs when you have 3 or 4 is fine, but saying you have no dogs when you have one is not hyperbole. Her ult is still more useful in a teamfight, now she can use E on herself and chase down chained enemies to ensure they stay within the chain, WITHOUT having to Zhonya's. Safety in a teamfight=much more MS=being able to dodge more skillshots, being able to stick to targets for the second damage proc and therefore more CC and spellvamp.
: Muramana definitely could benefit from some "broadening" changes that allow more than just Ezreal to use it. It's a cool stacking item that I could see myself enjoying on a number of champs.
What if it was allowed to proc on AoE/DoT abilities, but with reduced damage? Ezreal is the main abuser because he can proc it with all his single target abilities and auto attacks, but other AD casters like Jayce, Corki etc. all have abilities that simply can't proc it.
: You realize that this doesn't cut her waveclear at all? She had a LOT less damage before she was buffed in the Kayle/Morgana update. Her W only dealt around 70%(or maybe it was 50%) extra damage if a target had 0 health. NOW it's 170%. She can waveclear extremely better than she could pre-update due to this alone. She lost some damage, but it wasn't anything less than what she had **BEFORE HER INSANE BUFFS**(she also got an AP scaling on W increase in those buffs).
Her W pre-update was 50% bonus damage at 100% missing health. But, back then it had a much higher value for high health targets. Overall the change was about neutral, but the increase against low health targets made her too good at CS, and gave her a bit too much healing off cannon minions.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shirvallah,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEE6vIr2,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2019-04-05T16:47:58.087+0000) > > ~~It’s not like they can just rework her and change the ability entirely.~~ Oh, wait... > > {{sticker:sg-zephyr}} Ooff I'm still salty her ult got literally nothing
Her ult did not get literally nothing. Her ult now gives her movement speed towards chained enemies, up to 55% at rank 3.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jzz7vI1e,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T09:00:45.061+0000) > > I meant since he gets the double on-hit proc from his passive, he takes double damage from Thornmail that attack. And Vayne generally builds more AS than Lucian, meaning more Thornmail procs, so it counters her, too. And it also counters Trist's Q. But it doesn't counter Jhin, because he attacks slowly. Right?
Well Vayne it actually does counter, because attack speed slows are the only counter to her W (aside from healing and shielding). Was just pointing out an item that had a beneficial impact against Lucian passive.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: That heavily depends. Although both your numbers result in 4500 damage, you do need to keep in mind something: BotRK and RB. BotRK deals 8% hp damage regardless of your AD, so in the above numbers, although your AD will deal the same value in both, in the 2nd you get 3 more procs from BotRK, and if you have RB, you get either 1 more double proc or 2 more and all 3 situations fully outdamage the 300 AD at 15 attacks. Then there's the crit chance, say you have just the 25% from RH, statistically it will proc more on average thus being more damage. Just from those 3 items alone, it would be more damage at 250 AD and 18 attacks than 300 AD and 15 attacks without even considering the PtA buffing it.
Damage from bork and other on-hit effects is of course going to increase the more attack speed you have, but getting more attack speed means sacrificing ways to amplify that damage. Armor pen makes Bork and Bloodrazor deal more damage, magic pen makes Rageblade, Nashor's, Wit's End and many champion effects deal more damage. My example was meant to show the damage per-attack, not only pure AD. Realistically, in order to get 3.0 attack speed, you would need about 350% bonus attack speed, which means sacrificing a lot of AD and other kinds of damage. For example, the damage of a Bork attack (40 AD plus 8% current health) is exceeded in damage by an IE. Base AD let's say is 100, Bork brings an AA up to 140+8%, IE brings an AA up to 236 on average, meaning a target needs to have over 1200 current HP for bork to deal more damage. With other crit items added, and with more AD from other sources (rageblade, runes, etc.) the damage differential from getting a couple extra bork procs is lost. Even if getting a couple extra Bork procs made you deal more damage to high health targets, that would be a good decision to allow players to make; sacrificing more damage per-attack to shred tanks at a slightly faster DPS. Your point about crits is irrelevant. 25% crit chance is essentially, on average, a 25% increase to non-on-hit damage. The amount of bonus damage from a kit is based on your AD, so less AD means less crit damage. PTA is also irrelevant, especially to champions with true damage, as all it does is increase your damage to a single target by 8-12%. The only bearing having high attack speed would have is how fast you start dealing increased damage, which again is a fair tradeoff when you consider the sacrifice in damage per-attack. Also, when building exclusively for on-hit damage, you lose out on a lot of sustain granted by lifesteal items. You could build Bork and Wit's End, but after that you have no other options. You'd also not be able to get defensive options like GA, QSS, or Treads/Tabis. With extremely high attack speeds you also need to worry about attacking and moving at the same time, as your enemies aren't likely to stay in the same place forever, or are going to fight back by shooting skillshots at you.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Well, there's a small balance thing. Not sure for in the past, but now yes. Imagine PtA, for 6 seconds all damage done after procking it is increased. At 2.5 aps, in 6 sec you get 15 attacks. Say now you have 3 aps, in 6 sec you get 18. Now consider that each will proc on hits, etc, and assuming something can survive that long, it would sinergyse too well. But like this, you make a trade off, break the limit at expense of damage (PtA for burst or Conq for sustained) or sustain (FF) or go for the others and stay in the limit. Jinx is the only only that gets best of both worlds and atm is the best ADC. Not the most complained one, but still, thus showing why having both is a bad idea.
But if you invest in enough attack speed items to reach 3.0 attack speed, you're trading off in other ways by having much less attack damage, or AP for on-hit, or other forms of damage amp. With your example of PTA, it could be attacking 15 times in 6 seconds at 300 AD, or attacking 18 times with 250 AD. The only problem would be champs like Vayne who deal damage that only scales off of attack speed, and no other factors (AD, AP, armor pen, magic pen, cdr)
: As a Varus main im very salty they decided to allow Jinx's passive to break the AS cap when her passive already gives her a huge burst of movement speed, it has more situations to be useful and it can be proc on towers gives her attack speed as well while Varus' passive sole purpose is to increase his AS which Jinx already gets on her Q with way more uptime anyways. Riot's design and balance choices make no sense to me and it feels like they just play favorites.
Well to be fair, Varus does get to proc his passive off on minion kills. I do agree though that Jinx is given too much favoritism.
: Morgana Mid Nerfing
She was too strong, especially in mid, and she got nerfs that were directed at that role so that her support (which wasn't as out of line) didn't suffer AS much. They don't have a problem with her being a midlaner, they have a problem with her being a 54%+ winrate midlaner.
: My question from a design perspective is why do ranged characters, get both the initial range advantage, but most have a dash/movespeed as well. I think Riot greatly ignores just how strong of an advantage that range is.
Generally ranged characters have much lower MS than melee characters. For ADCs the average is about 330, for mages and others it's around 335/340, and for most melee characters it's 340 and up. Most melee characters also have a dash, or some other way to close the gap. The ones that don't usually have lots of damage and durability to make up for it. Saying most ranged characters have a dash is ignoring almost the entirety of the mage class, and half the ADCs. Annie, Anivia, Ashe, and more all have no mobility in exchange for their range. Also, melee characters always have better base stats than ranged characters (aside from Range, of course).
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jzz7vI1e,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-05T05:26:26.654+0000) > > You counterbuild Lucian's passive with {{item:3075}} He'll get the same percent DPS increase from his passive no matter what you build.
I meant since he gets the double on-hit proc from his passive, he takes double damage from Thornmail that attack.
: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3013832759/209095222 * Vayne got that GA at 34:20 and sold the DShield at 37:24, so you had Warmogs, Frozen Fist, Infernal Mask, and Tabi. That means she was an item ahead. * Vayne was 7/6 before this point, and in that fight she then got a triple. It was a teamfight, and others participated in killing you. * You lived over 8 seconds. Is that bad? Seems decent. Note that you mitigated a huge portion of her physical autos with a large pool of EH, which played a big part in letting you live more than a couple seconds. That's what tank items are for. * How long do you think a tank should live in the front line of a teamfight? 10 seconds? 15? 30? Forever? Preventing that is the whole point of Silver Bolts. * Counterbuilding isn't the same as counterplaying. How do you counterbuild Trist's Q? How do you counterbuild Lucian's passive? Silver Bolts serves as Vayne's steroid, without which she probably wouldn't be a marksman. Your health and armor were effective against the AD and crit that Vayne bought, and partially effective against the AS she bought (which lets her deal more physical damage and get more W applications). * You are not as squishy as your carries. Your carries hear Zed laugh, and then he pops up in their face just long enough to press QW, and then he's gone again. The carry dies either immediately or in a couple seconds when the ult pops. Of course, if Zed had to linger a while to kill e.g. MF, she would press Q and delete him, which is why his damage has to be so high: everyone's is. N.B.: the Zed in this match was having a tough time, and the MF wasn't going for a one-shot build, but they're basically balanced around doing so. * Your team won. TL;DR: Your tank stats allowed you to survive for a pretty long time, and your team won. P.S.: Delete Phantom Hit.
You counterbuild Lucian's passive with {{item:3075}}
Rylalei (EUNE)
: According to Zed....
Should be in Player Behavior.
: 1. I believe that the attack speed cap is set to 2.5 to encourage reasonable builds that include actual damage items and to make kiting relevant. Looking back at Kog'Maw when breaking the cap was introduced, the champion became an immobile turret and it hurt game-play overall. I cannot answer why Lethal Tempo allows you to exceed the limit, as it potentially reintroduces the same issue because of its non-existent cooldown. I was not actually aware that Jinx's passive allowed her to break the limit; if I had to guess, I would say it is because her Q steroid is a 130% attack speed bonus at max rank/stacks and it probably helps to diffuse some of the loss of that steroid upon hitting full build as well as to boost her ability to take inhibitor towers and subsequently the inhibitor itself. Frankly, I am very surprised that Varus does not get this effect as well. As for Jayce and Hail of Blades, I think it is to simply make the empowered attacks feel better. Hail of Blades especially, as it is supposed to be a burst tool. 2. Scaling per level vs scaling at intervals is a way to balance champions' power curves and to give power spikes, as you mentioned, the most obvious case being Kayle right now. It may have been decided that Ashe should have access to her full slow by level 16 as opposed to 18 in order to boost her mid-end game power at the expense of her final end game power, again filling out the curve that she is intended to have. I think that saying it grows in power every 3 levels is simply a little bit more elegant than saying it grows every level but randomly stops at 16. Another reason why abilities gain power at intervals may be to noticeably increase that ability's power; you might not notice Ashe's slow gradually becoming more powerful every level, but you might notice it jumping a bit in power if it gains every 3 levels instead. 3. I think the reasoning behind having low amounts of slow resist and tenacity available has three main points: the only answer to snowballed champions is CC, players feel bad when they successfully land a CC only to have it ignored, and to ensure that slows have their proper effect on self-slows such as Vi or Varus charging their abilities.
That's my main point about the attack speed cap. Why have it at all if Lethal Tempo can just eliminate it? Is it to force champions to take that rune if they plan on having high attack speeds? Wouldn't they do that anyway? And yeah, Jinx being able to exceed the cap with her +15% attack speed, but Varus not being able to exceed it with his 40% and up attack speed is pretty weird.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meriipu,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fuKYjjP4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-05T00:28:28.930+0000) > > imagine getting worked up over aram :3 Imagine getting work up over a game X3
> [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fuKYjjP4,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-04-05T01:43:10.864+0000) > > Imagine getting work up over a game X3 Imagine getting worked up over Neeko XD
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Rathar Dashing

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