: Riot is a hypocrite
That comment wasn't directed towards VGU selection which has a different criteria then roster projects. That comment was about the future of class updates and smaller reworks that aim to fix large gamehealth problems and increase champion diversity in the current cast. The comment meant that we won't just pick the small roster scope reworks based on a class but that we would also prioritize the champions against other champions that need work that aren't in a specific class. Azir for example needs some small work done (not VGU level) so he is being prioritized against other divers that also need work.
Sukishoo (NA)
: So, very soon :D
It's up now. http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/06/champion-roadmap-june-2017/
: mmh, I don't find your post , is it offline again?
Its not up yet, supposed to go up at 11am PST, not sure why it went up early for a moment
GreenLore (EUW)
: Kinda surprised about this,since you said that we'd likely get a new champ before the Urgot VGU. Guess the champ simply took a bit longer than expected.
Urgot will still be after the next new champion. This is not a Champion Teaser or a VGU teaser. I just wanted to add some cool in development art to my blogs going forward to spice them up a bit. The art teasers on my blog are not a indication of when they will ship. There is also a small Evelynn art piece in there and she isn't shipping anytime soon.
: What happened to the splash art updates?
MF has a lot of splashes that need updating, we also have Urgot splashes in development as well. We are still working on them don't worry! Sejuani and Maokai updates weren't that long ago.
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: Urgot VGU teaser
Hmm. Not sure what happened but the post should be officially up soon
Solideus (EUNE)
: I bet a lot of people are interested in what champions you guys have decided to move into "Tier 1" for VGUs since last time it was discussed? What champions are under consideration now that weren't nine months ago? :)
It hasn't really changed much tbh. Fiddlesticks has moved up in priority but other then that it's basically the same.
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: but you already know who that champion is?
We are currently in ideation about what could be next after Eve. We haven't locked down a specific champion yet. At this point in development we explore many different possibilities/options until we settle on the strongest idea.
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: If i may ask, when will your reveal Eve team next VGU? :)
Shortly after Eve release most likely
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: Hey Reav3 Is your next dev blog (not the one about next VGU) coming before next champion is revealed?
Yes. It should be out sometime next week.
Krabohod (NA)
: On new champion and Urgot's rework
Not sure where the information that the new champ got delayed is coming from. To clear things up, the new champion has not been delayed. There was never a plan to have a new champ in 7.13.
: And how about Shen? What fraction of Shen players were happy that their baddass 1 man army ninja juggernaut turned into a crippled hunchback chained to a post? you turned a badass into a cripple. Why? Old Shen https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/de-DE/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_kensei-media-carousel-3.jpg vs New Shen: http://i.imgur.com/f7aCP9n.jpg Riot has a terrible habit of overcomplicating things (esp champion skills) to make gameplay more interesting. However what you dont realize is that the simplest gameplay is the most satisfying. I would be very satisfied if you went back to Shen, and simplified him to simple be a badass warrior. Instead of whatever the fuck you guys tried to do to him. P: Warrior Momentum: Basic attacks reduce all of Shen's cooldowns (even ultimate) by 0.5 seconds. Basic attacks against heroes reduce Shen's cooldowns by 1 second. Q: Crescent Slash: Shen slashes with both blades in an arc. Enemies caught by both blades take double damage. W: Parry: Shen shifts in a defensive stance, blocking all incomming basic attacks in a small area around him. E: Taunt: Keep the same R: Stand United: Keep the same Because of the nature of his passive, we can increase the cooldowns of all his skills. This new passive rewards Shens that play offensively, by rewarding him with shorter cooldowns. This passive might instensive attack speed builds, a build that i used to enjoy a LOT on old Shen. Think about it... the most valuable stat for a ninja should be attack speed right? The current Q is really dumb, so I simplified it into a basic aoe. However there is still a lot of skill involved if you can hit multiple enemies with both blades. Shen is a master ninja, so he is fast enough to physically block arrows/ bullets / blades with his swords. His W would look sick if he deflected everything himself: http://imgur.com/xTMqOpx Shen doesnt need the power of magic to block physical effects. We should show of his prowess and mastery by letting him use his physical speed and skill to deflect attacks, just like Jax. Taunt and Ult are perfect as they are. Shens that play offensively can use his passive to optimize the cooldowns of these key abilities. Therefore the more you splitpush, the more you can ult. **It would be nice to have a simple champion to play for once. ** I feel like simplifiying Shen back into a badass ninja warrior would be great for the champion. We need a badass warrior like Shen..... and the current Shen simply doesnt cut it. This is just a suggestion. Literaly ANYTHING is better than the current Shen on Live. I have no idea how the hell a badass ICONIC League champion became this pathetic hunchback chained to a post. Reaver.... sometimes you do gods work. And sometimes you release bullshit like Shen. Really man whats the deal? Can you explain how you thought making these changes to Shen would make him a more loved champion? I really dont understand how you could take the most badass League champion and turn him into... whatever he is now. After this terrible track record with warriors, i'm really afraid to see how you guys will butcher Jax or any of my other favourite champions. Also please stop overcomplicating and overloading champion kits. The simplest designs are often the best. GP for example .... I cant even play him anymore and he used to be my favourite character when I started. Its just a lil dissapointing to see you guy step backwards.
> Reaver.... sometimes you do gods work. And sometimes you release bullshit like Shen. Really man whats the deal? I personally think while it wasn't the strongest udpate we ever did, he is better then pre-rework shen as his old Q was pretty unhealthy to play against, I will say that I personally didn't work on Shen. I started at Riot shortly after Shen, or like a month before he was released.
: You mentioned possibly doing a video version of state of champ up with Statikk and Scruffy, can you talk about that a little
Yeah, I wanted to do that. After talking to the Comms team about it though we decided it was best to keep those updates in DevBlog form. The reason being that big announcements of VGUs are much easier to localize for all our global players in written format.
: > [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEQjpqZK,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2017-06-10T16:20:34.968+0000) > > We send surveys out to players asking them how the feel about our VGUs and new champions after release. As far as VGUs go Galio was one of our highest rated from players we have ever done, tied with Warwick and Poppy. Interesting. Where does Yorick rank?
He was really high, about even with Taric's. He was our most improved as far as what his player rating were before and after the VGU, but he also had the lowest player ratings pre-rework.
: Was {{champion:14}} high rated as well? Because I don't want to live in a world where people enjoy Taric's rework more than Sion's.
All the big VGUs were highly rated. It's just that those 3 were the highest but they were all pretty close in ratings.
: Can I ask what sample size, you use for these surveys? Are they region based or global? I suspect if the reworks were quantified by mmr, region and "degree of attachment" (play rate) previous to rework those scores might look different. For example if Galio was liked by a ton of new players because he is a cool new champ then he would get a high score, but depending on the localization work (VO) of a particular region as well as how well Galio mains feel represented (if poeple with a high galio play rate before rework) those scores might change. in that case, it could be that the champion rework team is actually great at making new champs, not reworking them. Just a thought, I actually like most rewroks personally
Don't remember the exact sample size. Our Insights team would know that. I know that there is a mathematical amount needed to be a accurate representation of data and that's the number they get. Yes we get data from all the major regions. We also get data from new players and previous mains and can view those results separately.
: I agree, you guys tend to do really well with the big VGUs. The only really bad VGU was {{champion:43}} because she was rushed, left unfinished and was left without any real follow up work. A necessary sacrifice for all the good VGUs that came after, it's just shame that nobody felt like completing her. I look forward to to seeing what you guys have done with Urgot though, can't wait. Any word on when we can expect to hear about the next class update? (Sorry if this has been answered before)
I should have a blog out soon that talks about what's next for the roster team.
: ... But seriously, how is {{champion:44}} not on that list.
For the most part all of our big VGUs have been very positively received by the majority of players. This is one of the reasons we keep doing them and have also increased the cadence of them, amount other reasons. Taric was very highly rated just not quite as high as the 3 above. The only 2 VGUs that had mixed player sentiment where GP and Fiora. Fiora was about her visuals even though her gameplay was very highly rated and GP was mainly about how much higher his skill floor became. Fiora and GP were our highest rated VGUs a year after release though, when looking at them in comparison to player sentiment around all champions in the game.
: Give me one positive thing they made in his rework
We send surveys out to players asking them how the feel about our VGUs and new champions after release. As far as VGUs go Galio was one of our highest rated from players we have ever done, tied with Warwick and Poppy.
: When will the noxus lore be updated?
That would be up to the world building team
: Can I assume the "Yup" goes for Noxus lore too?
Nope. I wouldn't assume to much about Urgot's updated lore :)
: So Urgot VGU is first? Will Noxus lore come with it, or will it wait for Swain VGU?
Yup. Check out the Champion Update Schedule. Urgot has always been before Evelynn.
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: Wait, you will talk about NEW champion in your dev blog? So you are planning to tell us what this champion will be like?
That's the plan, yes, though it will be pretty high level, don't want to spoil the eventual reveal too much.
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: We know that the blog after Urgot will be about 2 next VGU's, the one we are talking about will be about next class update, right Reav3?
It probably won't go over the next 2 VGUs and we are still super early on the VGU that would start after Evelynn. Since I'm going to be doing these more often it they will probably be announced one at a time as they exit ideation and enter production. The one after Urgot will probably focus on the champion going into production after Urgot as well as the new champion going into production after the next new champion.
: Hey Reav3, why haven't you guys talk about Sivir splash update yet? She was receive her remake a long time ago, and still using awful placeholders for her skins.
She's on the list for sure. We likely won't do another female Marksmen right after MF as we like to spread out the type of champs we rework a bit so we hit different player bases.
: is it the blog after Urgot Rework? Or is it a other blog about class update and the blog about VGU and new championsite will come after Urgot?
Before. It will go over many topics between VGUs and New Champions. Won't be announcing the next VGU yet though as we arn't completely locked on that yet, that should still be in the one that comes after Urgot. Will be giving some updates on current VGU progress though.
Tomeksz (EUNE)
: How soon? before Urgot is released?
yes, I will still so another one after Urgot ships as well
beany (NA)
: Hey are there any plans for detailing any class updates for preseason or has it been shelved for runes reforged?
I am working on a new blog that should be out pretty soon. Planning to start doing update blogs more often, rather then every 6 months. I will be going over the class updates in the blog though, among other things.
: Splah Art Updates
We are currently working on a update to Miss Fortunes old Skin splashes. As for what's after that, we haven't decided yet.
: How does Riot choose which Champions are Tier 1 for Updates?
I did a AskRiot awhile back that went over how we choose and prioritize VGU candidates. Link Below http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/ask-riot-chromas-and-champup
: > [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PLtEVriK,comment-id=000200000000000000020000000300000004000000050000,timestamp=2017-05-26T18:13:28.355+0000) > > That was exactly my point. When we did Fiora is was before we had 2 full VGU teams. Fiora kept the same rig and we just updated the model (Same as Shen.) If we had put both through the full VGU process and pushed them further and spent way more time on there art I think they both would have been much better. Fiora is a case where we only went halfway, which never really works very well. Had we pushed it as far as our other VGUs it probably would have been a lot stronger. Would you consider giving her and Shen a full VGU or are you going to stick with these versions for now?
Sure, one day. Any champion is on the table to get VGUs one day. It's not like it is super clear which champions are going to age well and which aren't overtime.
: I can see that, it did sound like a cool concept (as an eve player myself) but for her I felt it would be too far from what eve would be. I can't see adjusting from walking around permastealth to hugging walls (and if i'm a pixel off, being revealed in a lane gank). Would like a concept like that later though, picture maybe another snake or bug like champion which clings to walls and crawls over them. I just have two questions because a lot of people seem to believe this, if leaks are true (such as the previous one, which we've already confirmed skins for), would staff lie and say they're untrue for the sake of hiding future content and move people away from it? I don't believe this is the specific case as this leak looks fake from the ground up and we even got context for why eve's "leaked design" shouldn't be a thing, but in the future would that be a thing that gives still believer post in here hope? Additionally would content based on leaks be looked into in the future? A lot of people got extremely enticed about the viktor skin idea and the program skins got people like me and other extremely hyped. I'd say the same for PP but I think we expected some of those eventually regardless of the leak. Would those skins be a possibility influenced by the leak, or would the skins team ignore those concepts?
I can't speak for other rioters but I doubt we would. If we did it would just be confirmed as soon as the first thing from the list got released anyways so there wouldn't be much value in it.
WarWork (NA)
: Hey Reav3 hope you see this and can reply. How's your night/day going? What about champions like Singed and Swain (and to some extent Garen who is basically a living meme) who's gameplay is essentially opposite to who there character is in the lore. How will the VGU teams find the balance between players who love their unique playstyles and the others who love their lore and are frustrated that it's not translated into their gameplay. Ps. I think Nunu should be next I mean he isn't even a champ Willump is, nunu literally is nothing but an accessory.
For champions with confused Thematics and Gameplay we would probably just have to choose whichever we find a stronger direction for during the ideation process. With champions like that it will be impossible to please everyone so we have to just pick one direction and really try to deliver on it. Often times if you try to please everyone at once you will end up pleasing no one at all.
LankPants (OCE)
: You pushing Fiora in the art direction just pissed a lot of people off, don't just gloss over that, it's important to remember that this was an abomination that people didn't like. http://i.imgur.com/iAwR9PP.jpg It's also worth noting I literally found this as the first result by googling "Fiora shit art", that should tell you the communities opinion on you "pushing Fiora's art" as a whole
That was exactly my point. When we did Fiora is was before we had 2 full VGU teams. Fiora kept the same rig and we just updated the model (Same as Shen.) If we had put both through the full VGU process and pushed them further and spent way more time on there art I think they both would have been much better. Fiora is a case where we only went halfway, which never really works very well. Had we pushed it as far as our other VGUs it probably would have been a lot stronger.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Do you really consider her theme that strong? I mean we have 4 ninjas in the game,so it makes sense for every ninja to have something else that makes them thematically unique. {{champion:98}} is a spirit warrior {{champion:85}} is basically THE lightning champ {{champion:238}} has his shadow doppelgangers Meanwhile {{champion:84}} has boobs Her theme feels like one of the least unique in the game simply because she doesn't have much to her besides being a ninja,which isn't really unique as there are 3 others already.
I think her "Core" theme is strong. Her core theme being "Ninja Girl" basically. I do agree that she is not very unique though. Warwick also and a strong theme which was "Werewolf." The old Warwick has a really cliche, generic execution of the "werewolf" theme. When we updated him we tried to make him feel more unique and part of Runeterra. We would like to do the same with Akali. Keep the core theme but try to make the execution more unique.
: So Eve will keep most of her abilities?
I didn't say that. I said she would keep a similar play pattern. Warwick technically got all of his abilities changed but his play pattern was still similar, just vastly modernized. For Eve there will be some abilities modernized/updated and some completely new abilities as well.
: What's wrong with Quinn that she's even on the list at all?
Her kit just isn't very healthy, especially as a top laner (playing against specifically.) Also her thematic and art execution is a bit weak.
: That "leak" is fake. Confirmed by a rioter
Well I said it would be lame for Eve. Could be cool for a new champion. Evelynn's main strategic identity is permastealth. As I stated in my last "State of Champion Update" blog, we don't plan on removing that aspect, just making it healthier.
: Sorry to add to the pile of questions Reav3, but would you consider Quinn a Tier 2 list champion?
Probably Tier 2 or Tier 3.
: > I assume Mordekaiser is in the same camp aswell, or am I wrong there? -MM :^)
From the Thematic side probably. I think Morde needs a pretty big gameplay overhaul though. Much more then just a modernization of his current kit.
Monotachi (OCE)
: Would you say that about Akali as well? A Fiora-type VGU would do wonders for her. Her theme is clearly strong (ninja chick, uses smokebombs, dashes around alot) but her current gameplay using these ninja tools feels lackluster and watered down over the years. Fiora kept her original skill profiles intact (except for ult) but given more skill expression. Akali's kit matches similarly in this regard.
I think we should have pushed Fiora further from the Art/VO stand point. But, yes I would put her more in the camp of Fiora & Warwick where we would want to modernize her rather then re-invent her. Evelynn and Irelia are in a similar camp.
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PLtEVriK,comment-id=0002000000000000000200000003000000020000,timestamp=2017-05-25T20:43:33.560+0000) > > Singed is on the list for a full VGU. He isn't tier 1 because there are currently worse offenders. That doesn't mean he won't move up to tier 1 at some point. Fiddlesticks, for example, has moved up to tier 1 as his gameplay has proven more dated and unhealthy as time has gone on. Thank you for replying! So Fiddle is tier 1, has Malphite, whom you said was borderline tier 1 moved up there? If yes, did these two moving up caused some champions to move from tier 1 down to tier 2?
There is not a limit to the amount of champions that can be in a tier. The champions are in a tier based on how much value there is in updating them.
: Hey Reav3 can I ask for your thoughts on what are essentially broken down VGUs like what happened with Maokai where his lore, skins, gameplay, VO and splashes getting up at different points
Well the original Maokai VU was done at a time when we still did VUs. WE have since turned that VU team into a full VGU team so we could get out VGUs faster. His lore was independent of ChampUp and was part of the World Building team updating the lore for the Shadow Isles. When we started on the tank update we decided he was high priority because he was such a generalist tank that it was problematic for other tanks. The decision to give him a GU really had nothing to do with his previous VU. As for his splashes, well him and Sejuani were already on the list for Splash updates due to there previous VUs. Pairing stuff together usually goes well so we decided to pair there splash updates with there gameplay updates. The VO update was also done because pairing stuff together is usually pretty good. We felt that since we were doing a big GU on Maokai and many new players would start playing him and trying him out that it would be nice if his VO could reflect the new lore would building put out for him more.
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: What about Singed? He had a small VU, but that's it. He is not even on splash art rework champions, and he is a character who last time (about the time of Galio rework announcement) ranked in top 7 among the VGU requests, yet he is not among Tier 1. Could you please give me more information about him? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} Thank you if you reply!
Singed is on the list for a full VGU. He isn't tier 1 because there are currently worse offenders. That doesn't mean he won't move up to tier 1 at some point. Fiddlesticks, for example, has moved up to tier 1 as his gameplay has proven more dated and unhealthy as time has gone on.
: ***
In retrospect Fiora was one of our highest value VGUs. We do a survey to players every 3 months or so that asks them a bunch of questions about our champions. most fun abilties, highest overall quality, best art, etc. Of all our VGUs Fiora is consistently the highest rated VGU by players we ever did. Not on day 1 of course, but overtime when the dust settled she remains the stickiest and strongest of our VGUs A lot of this has to do with the fact that her theme was very strong (Fencing Duelist) We actually want to do more of these in the future. Champions that aren't the worst, but are pretty dated and have very strong themes. This is one of the reason we keep bringing up Irelia as a high priority champions for a full VGU. Also to your point on Annie and Karthus. I think both of those would have greatly benefited from full VGUs.
: In my opinion, the Karthus VU was beautiful. While it didn't change how people played with him, you made a LOT of mains happy by doing it. I'd also argue that had he not gotten that VU, people would be asking for him to get a VGU.
I agree. I think Karthus would have benefited more from waiting to get a full VGU rather then a VU.
: Exit class rework, will there be any Gameplay update ? i mean without change the visual. When i say Gameplay update i mean BIG GU, not small like Shyvana or Rek'sai but more like talon last year.
Yes, we still plan on doing big GUs where needed
Erdamon (EUNE)
: I have a kind of off-topic question, will we ever see visual only updates again? I feel like there's a handful of champions whose gameplay still lives up to today's standards, or had a sufficient gameplay update already so that more kit work isn't really required.
I would't say never. Nothing is ever absolute at Riot as we constantly re-evaluate priorities and what will have the highest player value. We stopped doing pure VUs because they really didn't have much effect on the game at all for the amount of time spent on them. In fact, many players didn't even notice when we did them at all. Lee Sin, for example, doesn't have the most up to date visuals in the game. That really doesn't prevent players from playing and enjoying Lee Sin. He is still one of our most popular champions. When we did a VU on Karthus it didn't really change player perception or engagement with Karthus either. The gameplay updates and big VGU's have a enormous effect of players engagement and enjoyment of the game so we started to prioritize those over VUs. That isn't to say we will never do VUs again, just that they aren't currently the highest value thing we could be doing at the moment. While VU's don't take as long as a VGU, they do take time and would slow down the cadence of our big VGUs by quite a bit. Our big VGUs have a much bigger impact and are also in much higher demand from our player base, in fact many of our players want us to do the big VGU's faster.
: does he have four arms??? is he goro now???
Last I checked you played Bass Drums with your feet...
patmax17 (EUW)
: in your article, will you also go over the small updates made by the live gameplay team?
No, it will focus primarily on VGUs and new Champions with a little bit about roster. Meddler usually does a pretty good job at covering the small updates in his daily posts.
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Reav3

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