kuraiona (EUW)
: I just saw that the changes have been reverted on PBE and I was wondering if it still was coming
> [{quoted}](name=kuraiona,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0086,timestamp=2019-06-06T21:08:04.037+0000) > > I just saw that the changes have been reverted on PBE and I was wondering if it still was coming Yep, everything's moving forward. Just waiting on the project to make its way through QA, loc and other aspects of the process. Stay tuned!
: Is this change still coming out? I know this question may seem kind of stupid but this idea has been in the works for a bit and I'm very interested in seeing it go to live servers along with the other wukong update that I was expecting to come out this patch rather than just a bunch of random nerfs that came out of the blue and that dreaded Janna buff.
> [{quoted}](name=brachydios34557,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0085,timestamp=2019-05-30T17:39:07.122+0000) > > Is this change still coming out? I know this question may seem kind of stupid but this idea has been in the works for a bit and I'm very interested in seeing it go to live servers along with the other wukong update that I was expecting to come out this patch rather than just a bunch of random nerfs that came out of the blue and that dreaded Janna buff. This is definitely still coming! Tell your friends. :D This project was done outside of the roadmap for our other teams, so they are still trying to fit it into their schedules. The design and balance have been locked for a while now, but teams like QA and Localization haven't gotten to put their magic on it yet.
: > the definitive anti-AD tank Just for clarity, I thought that was Rammus's role?
> [{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800006,timestamp=2019-05-15T14:50:42.993+0000) > > Just for clarity, I thought that was Rammus's role? This may be semantics, but I'd consider Rammus to be the anti AUTO ATTACK tank. His primary position being that of the jungle also makes him less match-up dependent than Malphite, who is usually chosen as a counter-pick to a tough AD lane.
: Any chance his passive could have better HP scaling later in the game?
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00550014,timestamp=2019-05-15T03:20:27.680+0000) > > Any chance his passive could have better HP scaling later in the game? I'd argue that his shield already scales pretty well into late game, since he's had time to build HP items and his armor itemization + W passive makes the shield incredibly resilient to physical damage. In terms of 'effective shielding' it's actually quite strong in the late game.
Vekkna (NA)
: I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. * 70-270 + .6 AP * 700 range * .25 sec targeted cast * 1400 speed * 8 sec CD * 20-40% slow + 20-40% speed When you compare that to Annie, Janna, Katarina, Anivia, Pantheon, and other targeted ranged basic abilities, Shard just blows them out of the water. A rank 5 Shard has the same damage as a rank 1 Syndra ult with 25 longer range, less damage delay, and double MS utility....on an 8 sec cooldown. This is basically just an objectively stronger version of Neurotoxin in top lane and Zephyr in bot lane. Speaking of bot lane... 700 range is longer than every ADC's attack range. The poke is unavoidable and high damage. He has a passive shield and armor bonus that lowers risk in a Q trade and shrugs off minion aggro. Even if you can trade back, lulmovespeed gives you a very short window to retaliate. Please consider *not* making this completely predictable and avoidable mistake. Thanks!
> [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800007,timestamp=2019-05-15T17:30:19.016+0000) > > I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. > Fair concerns, thanks for posting them. We'll keep an eye on it, but so far based on our playtests it's felt largely the same as LIVE in terms of power/oppressiveness.
Flemman (EUW)
: Can you elaborate more about the size scaling. What did it bring for malphite player, better aa or range increased? If this just make it harder to dodge as malphite i don't see the point of those change
> [{quoted}](name=Flemman,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800004,timestamp=2019-05-15T00:26:43.222+0000) > > Can you elaborate more about the size scaling. What did it bring for malphite player, better aa or range increased? > If this just make it harder to dodge as malphite i don't see the point of those change It's purely a change to improve the thematic fantasy of being a living mountain. Just as growing stronger is a deeply psychological desire, growing in size provides similar satisfaction on a pretty subconscious level. In fact, this change has gotten some of the most positive feedback out of everything once players try it in-game. If you're building Armor you're probably a tank, so absorbing skill shots and making it easier to have damage directed at you can actually be considered a buff. AP Malphite is unaffected because they aren't building Armor (except maybe Zhonya's) but the size increase should be negligible for them.
Rule (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0080,timestamp=2019-05-14T20:35:53.232+0000) > > Hi everyone! Appreciate the continued discussion around Malphite; clearly he holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts as one of the first Champions they ever played. I have a small update with where we're at: > > 1. We're effectively mechanics-locked as of the latest iteration, and have entered the tuning/number tweaking phase > > > 2. To that end, yesterday I did some bug fixes and am currently testing a minor Base Stat clean-up. Those should be on the PBE today > > > 3. Riot Beardilocks did an amazing job on updating Malphite's VFX across all his skins- check them out if you haven't had the chance! > > > 4. Since this is an opportunistic change list, we still don't have a specific release patch in mind. Stay tuned! > > While not exhaustive, here's a breakdown of some of the major revisions I've made since posting the original change list. Still seeing a lot of people talking about outdated values and mechanics, so I'd like to dispel some of that now. > > **Passive- Granite Shield** > > * Size scaling has been refactored to account for the massive Armor values Malphite can get through his W. His growth spurt now caps out at ~700 Armor > > **Q- Seismic Shard** > > * AP ratio reverted to LIVE value > * Cast time reverted to LIVE value > * Q now checks if "stealing" move speed would result in a faster Malphite, and uses that value in the rare cases when it does > > **W- Thunderclap** > > * The much beloved 3x Armor multiplier has been retained > * Mana cost increased to 30 from 25 > * W's sustained damage and dueling potential was listed as a major red flag during internal testing, so it's seen a number of nerfs over the last two weeks > > **E- Ground Slam** > > * Mana cost decreased by 10 at all ranks > > **Base Stats** > > Here's the Base Stat clean-up I'm trying; definitely no promises that these will all make it through, as they're almost all buffs and we're worried this update is already pushing Malphite pretty far. Goal was to further solidify Malphite as the definitive anti-AD tank while indirectly nerfing his late-game AA damage potential, which was getting pretty nuts when building Triforce + Wit's End. > > * Attack Speed growth reduced to 3 from 3.4 > * Base Armor increased to 40 from 37 > * Armor growth increased to 4 from 3.75 > * HP rounded up to 575 from 574.2 > > {{champion:54}} > -Lutz How about his mana pool?
> [{quoted}](name=Rule,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800003,timestamp=2019-05-14T22:59:11.928+0000) > > How about his mana pool? E costs 10 less, which should help traditional tank/fighter Malphites in top as it's their primary tool to survive the lane. AP Malphite is specifically gated by high mana costs on Q, which can already be mitigated more than in the past thanks to multiple rune options. It's an intentional weakness. :)
: Malphite changes coming to PBE
Hi everyone! Appreciate the continued discussion around Malphite; clearly he holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts as one of the first Champions they ever played. I have a small update with where we're at: 1. We're effectively mechanics-locked as of the latest iteration, and have entered the tuning/number tweaking phase 2. To that end, yesterday I did some bug fixes and am currently testing a minor Base Stat clean-up. Those should be on the PBE today 3. Riot Beardilocks did an amazing job on updating Malphite's VFX across all his skins- check them out if you haven't had the chance! 4. Since this is an opportunistic change list, we still don't have a specific release patch in mind. Stay tuned! While not exhaustive, here's a breakdown of some of the major revisions I've made since posting the original change list. Still seeing a lot of people talking about outdated values and mechanics, so I'd like to dispel some of that now. **Passive- Granite Shield** * Size scaling has been refactored to account for the massive Armor values Malphite can get through his W. His growth spurt now caps out at ~700 Armor **Q- Seismic Shard** * AP ratio reverted to LIVE value * Cast time reverted to LIVE value * Q now checks if "stealing" move speed would result in a faster Malphite, and uses that value in the rare cases when it does **W- Thunderclap** * The much beloved 3x Armor multiplier has been retained * Mana cost increased to 30 from 25 * W's sustained damage and dueling potential was listed as a major red flag during internal testing, so it's seen a number of nerfs over the last two weeks **E- Ground Slam** * Mana cost decreased by 10 at all ranks **Base Stats** Here's the Base Stat clean-up I'm trying; definitely no promises that these will all make it through, as they're almost all buffs and we're worried this update is already pushing Malphite pretty far. Goal was to further solidify Malphite as the definitive anti-AD tank while indirectly nerfing his late-game AA damage potential, which was getting pretty nuts when building Triforce + Wit's End. * Attack Speed growth reduced to 3 from 3.4 * Base Armor increased to 40 from 37 * Armor growth increased to 4 from 3.75 * HP rounded up to 575 from 574.2 {{champion:54}} -Lutz
: Gonna post my thoughts as someone whose generic jungler has been malphite for many years. **Q Thoughts: ** The Q cast time increase is going to hurt. It already feels bad to be charging in to gank someone and stop to cast your slow, to have the stop increased will make him feel more clunky, combined with people ducking into FOW as it gets cast and cancelling it, opening that window up is going to be annoying. The Loss of the movement speed steal removes one of my personal favorite bits of mini strategy in the game. When ganking bot, do you use it on the ADC or the Sup, does one of them have boots? Does one of them have a movespeed buff up at that moment? Do I just want to leverage the slow? Making it a flat slow/speedup removes that interaction and strategy. Is it a teamfight and they have an ulting Yi? Make him pay and zoom around yourself! Reducing the amount of time the speed buff lasts will also make it harder to stick to opponents, since his other abilities don't grant him target access or stickyness (no tenacity increases, no other speed buffs, no other slows, ONLY the ult) reducing the amount of time he goes fast will just make it harder for him to get to people. **W thoughts:** Please don't change the name! I personally happen to love it The loss of the armor boost (the 3x one) removed an interesting bit of strategy. Similar to how Garen can use an ability to increase his tankyness, being able to temporarily make yourself vastly more defensive was a huge plus in certain matchups. Also curious how this will effect the jungle clear as for the duration you took less damage from monsters and I'm a little afraid he'll eat a lot more from camps especially during his early clears. I personally don't want him to be a burst champ, he's a tanky and I think as a Living Mountain as you have emphasized, he should be focused around being tanky, not doing high damage. Removing a tanky tool makes me frustrated, as it leads me to have one less actually interesting tank interaction in the game. **Other thoughts** Malphite's a mountain, he doesn't need to throw a quick stone, I'd take a longer travel time and a larger slow personally. He's a mountain, I'll take a tankyness increase over a burst/damage leveling any time. HE'S a MOUNTAIN, when he builds armor it's like making it harder for people to climb over him, so they should take more damage from his abilities OVER TIME, not in a burst. HE'S a mountain, he wears people down, and then crushes them in an avalanche (unstoppable force), not just through a mountain at them. I appreciate that you are looking at him, and I'm glad you are taking feedback before committing the changes.
> [{quoted}](name=rastarogue,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0056,timestamp=2019-05-04T02:52:57.953+0000) > > I appreciate that you are looking at him, and I'm glad you are taking feedback before committing the changes. Thank you for taking the time to write this up, you're clearly a seasoned and passionate Malphite player! We're in a weird spot because Malphite is so old, and beloved by so many. He also comes with a LOT of baggage, which means we can't do a lot of things we'd do if we were designing a brand new Champion from scratch. Thematically there is a big disconnect between "literal mountain" and squishy burst mage that turns himself into a missile. But that's what he is to many of our players, so we have to work within those constraints. Believe me, I think it's a missed opportunity for sure! If I had my way, mega Gnar's Q should have been Malphite's Q. He should be tossing hunks of Summoner's Rift around like it's nothing because he is LITERALLY Summoner's Rift. Imagine if the entire battle took place on his shoulder or something, straight out of Final Fantasy or God of War. Alas, sometimes we've gotta work with what we've got. :D
: Malphite changes coming to PBE
Hey gang! Thanks again for all the kind words, support and insightful conversations based around these changes. As we always try to mention, the PBE is often used for experimental stuff that we want the community's feedback on. You all made a few things VERY clear today and I'm super appreciative and receptive to your concerns. **As a result, I'm happy to share a new iteration of Malphite, which should be hitting PBE around Monday midday (PST)**. Sadly it can't be sooner, as we don't push things to PBE over the weekend. **Revisions:** * Q- AP scaling reverted to .6 from .4 * Q- fixed a typo regarding the cast time (was written as .5, is actually .4) * Q- adjusted the animation considerably to look/feel less clunky * W- 3x Armor multiplier when Granite Shield is active has been REINSTATED * W- the bonus damage on the initial Thunderclap hit has had its ratios reduced to compensate (.3 AP from .4) and (.15 Armor from .2) * VFX updates on Passive shield regeneration, Q missile/trench, W up-time/impact, E and R (**BASE SKIN ONLY FOR NOW**) **Context:** Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. **Clear-Ups** A few common questions/concerns have come up, so let's address them here! * Malphite's abilities won't gain range based on his size- sorry! I wanted to do this, but it was OP OP * The initial AA reset from Thunderclap triggers an Aftershock. This means it deals three instances of damage simultaneously; the AA, Thunderclap bonus damage, and Aftershock AoE damage. The result is a pretty meaty burst of damage! * The new speed differential between Malphite and his target are significantly buffed. Assuming you Q a target with 400 MS on LIVE, the delta between you would be ~225. In this iteration, that delta explodes to 350+ once you get some boots. The combination of a longer range Q, easier target accessibility, and improved burst damage from W should allow Malphite to participate in skirmishes and team fights without always relying on his R. * Scope for this project was super limited, and for good reason. I'm still new, I'm learning the tools, and bandwidth from art/tech was already accounted for in our project pipeline. Maybe Malphite will get a full VGU in the future, and maybe I'll be the one to do it, but that's currently not in our slate. ...Get it? Slate? Cuz he's a-- nevermind. **Next Steps:** * Next week I'd like to add a check to Q that uses your target's move speed if the amount you'd steal from them would make you faster than the base values. This preserves my goal of making Q consistently good, while retaining the playmaking potential of stealing from a particularly fast foe * We'll also be monitoring Malphite's overall damage output/power. I'm happy to reinstate the things you guys said were important to you, but that likely means that Malphite is now overtuned. Please keep in mind that we'll likely have to trim power from _somewhere_. Keep the discussion going! I'll be active here and on Twitter over the weekend. -Lutz
NeverLace (EUW)
: You guys are forgetting the most important change. His E Riot Logo should be updated.
> [{quoted}](name=NeverLace,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0043,timestamp=2019-05-03T22:05:34.151+0000) > > You guys are forgetting the most important change. His E Riot Logo should be updated. We're on it. :)
: Imo, this isn't a whole lot more interesting. You changed missile speed and visuals of Q while nerfing ap ratio, made his w like cho's, nerfed his shield, and added a small visual effect to his ult? Here are my ideas of some more interesting changes: Passive: This thing is lame. "Every x seconds get a shield" is super bland, especially without the passive of having more armor with it up. Furthermore, I don't think it really fits a rock monster fantasy... maybe it is a protective layer of rock you have to get through? Here's my idea for a more interesting passive: Malphite has a passive (x) bonus armor (percentage or based on level). Every time he casts a spell he gains a (-y) armor debuff, stacking up to (z) times and lasting (t) seconds. This version of a passive makes him actually like a rock that is hard to hit, but every time he has to cast an ability he chips a little of himself away, making him more vulnerable. This would turn him into a very different kind of tank: one that was very tanky initially, but in longer fights gets progressively weaker if he is forced to continually cast spells. Q: What is the new "molten rock" debuff? Is that just a fancy wording for the slow? Furthermore, why is it "molten" rock? He is a big rock, nothing in his kit has to do with "molten", that's ornn. My idea: I think this would be a cool ability to turn into a skillshot to give him a slightly higher skill cap. My thought is he throws out this giant stone that crumbles as it rolls or hits people. So it starts pretty massive, and as it rolls it reduces in width, and as it hits things (champs especially) it reduces more significantly. Each target hit gets slowed, maybe slowing closer targets more, maybe doing more damage to closer targets too, which would reward him for using it on top of people. Making have a large hitbox close by makes it an simpler-to-use ability for newer/lower skilled players, but having it be able to go further gives it the chance to be used better for more experienced players as well. W: Practically just made it a Cho W, or a baked in titanic... meh. My idea: i like the idea of the thunderclap. How about you run with that, but for only 1 auto attack, single target (he already has cleave with his E and if my Q was implemented more AOE with that) and make it a lower cooldown? If the rest of this kit was followed, this would give him the chance to do decent damage quickly, but would make him super brittle as it would lower his armor each time. Furthermore, he could save it until later in the fight to just get off that extra burst of damage to secure a kill or put down some extra pressure. E: Ability is ok, but if all this extra AOE is too much might need to be changed. Maybe a lame idea but maybe give him an actual defensive ability like "harden" where he slows or roots himself and regenerates/throws some extra rock on him? Removes the passive debuff or something? IDK at this point I'm just making stuff up. R: No offense but "Wow, a new non-impact visual effect!" Unless I misread, that's all it is. His ult is pretty iconic, so maybe there isn't much wiggle room here. But if we're speaking honestly, a giant rock throwing itself at people at that speed? Kinda silly. How does the guy accelerate that fast? I mean I know we're in fantasy land here but still... Maybe just a small animation change to make it look like he's jumping or something? IDK I've just always had a problem with the giant rock propelling itself magically forward at stupid fast speeds... Anyways, there's my cesspool of ideas. Take them as you will!
> [{quoted}](name=skumnasty,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=003b,timestamp=2019-05-03T21:41:27.875+0000) > > Imo, this isn't a whole lot more interesting. You changed missile speed and visuals of Q while nerfing ap ratio, made his w like cho's, nerfed his shield, and added a small visual effect to his ult? > > Here are my ideas of some more interesting changes: > > Passive: This thing is lame. "Every x seconds get a shield" is super bland, especially without the passive of having more armor with it up. Furthermore, I don't think it really fits a rock monster fantasy... maybe it is a protective layer of rock you have to get through? > > Here's my idea for a more interesting passive: Malphite has a passive (x) bonus armor (percentage or based on level). Every time he casts a spell he gains a (-y) armor debuff, stacking up to (z) times and lasting (t) seconds. > > This version of a passive makes him actually like a rock that is hard to hit, but every time he has to cast an ability he chips a little of himself away, making him more vulnerable. This would turn him into a very different kind of tank: one that was very tanky initially, but in longer fights gets progressively weaker if he is forced to continually cast spells. > > Q: What is the new "molten rock" debuff? Is that just a fancy wording for the slow? Furthermore, why is it "molten" rock? He is a big rock, nothing in his kit has to do with "molten", that's ornn. > > My idea: I think this would be a cool ability to turn into a skillshot to give him a slightly higher skill cap. My thought is he throws out this giant stone that crumbles as it rolls or hits people. So it starts pretty massive, and as it rolls it reduces in width, and as it hits things (champs especially) it reduces more significantly. Each target hit gets slowed, maybe slowing closer targets more, maybe doing more damage to closer targets too, which would reward him for using it on top of people. Making have a large hitbox close by makes it an simpler-to-use ability for newer/lower skilled players, but having it be able to go further gives it the chance to be used better for more experienced players as well. > > W: Practically just made it a Cho W, or a baked in titanic... meh. > > My idea: i like the idea of the thunderclap. How about you run with that, but for only 1 auto attack, single target (he already has cleave with his E and if my Q was implemented more AOE with that) and make it a lower cooldown? If the rest of this kit was followed, this would give him the chance to do decent damage quickly, but would make him super brittle as it would lower his armor each time. Furthermore, he could save it until later in the fight to just get off that extra burst of damage to secure a kill or put down some extra pressure. > > E: Ability is ok, but if all this extra AOE is too much might need to be changed. Maybe a lame idea but maybe give him an actual defensive ability like "harden" where he slows or roots himself and regenerates/throws some extra rock on him? Removes the passive debuff or something? IDK at this point I'm just making stuff up. > > R: No offense but "Wow, a new non-impact visual effect!" Unless I misread, that's all it is. His ult is pretty iconic, so maybe there isn't much wiggle room here. But if we're speaking honestly, a giant rock throwing itself at people at that speed? Kinda silly. How does the guy accelerate that fast? I mean I know we're in fantasy land here but still... Maybe just a small animation change to make it look like he's jumping or something? IDK I've just always had a problem with the giant rock propelling itself magically forward at stupid fast speeds... > > Anyways, there's my cesspool of ideas. Take them as you will! Thanks for taking the time to share this, and definitely some cool ideas here! As you alluded to, there is a disconnect between Malphite's visual theming and his mechanical functionality. Why does a rock throwing a smaller rock at an enemy STEAL their movement speed? However, the fact of the matter is that Malphite is one of our most popular and iconic Champions, and also one of our healthiest. Making anything more than very minor adjustments to him will risk doing more harm than good. If we ever decide to give him a full VGU treatment, I'd love to entertain many of the suggestions you listed here!
Advacus (NA)
: Any thoughts on making thematic champions more similar to each other? I know this would take a lot of work and it definitely out of the scope of this champion rebalance but it would be cool if Malphite works the earth similar to Taliyah but opposite. While Taliyah uses up the nearby ground requiring her to find new ground Malphite could make the space near him more impowered increasing his (insert one of his skills here), cus you know he is a tank and should be rewarded for holding his ground. Plus I like how all the Freljord champs have that 4 hit passive, would be cool if our earthen friends got something similar. Just thoughts from a fan Advacus.
> [{quoted}](name=Advacus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2019-05-03T21:34:49.627+0000) > > Any thoughts on making thematic champions more similar to each other? I know this would take a lot of work and it definitely out of the scope of this champion rebalance but it would be cool if Malphite works the earth similar to Taliyah but opposite. While Taliyah uses up the nearby ground requiring her to find new ground Malphite could make the space near him more impowered increasing his (insert one of his skills here), cus you know he is a tank and should be rewarded for holding his ground. Plus I like how all the Freljord champs have that 4 hit passive, would be cool if our earthen friends got something similar. > > Just thoughts from a fan > > Advacus. This is a great idea and something I would personally love to see/build! Malphite's theme as "literal mountain" is definitely under-utilized in his current kit, lore and visuals. We're doing what we can with the resources we have now, but I agree that more thematic cohesion would be rock solid.
: Any thoughts of reducing Malphite's mana costs? This is honestly one of my least favorite parts of Malphite. I would much rather be squishier/do less damage than have such high mana costs. It just makes laning phase feel so bad.
> [{quoted}](name=WizardXZD,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2019-05-03T20:28:02.546+0000) > > Any thoughts of reducing Malphite's mana costs? > > This is honestly one of my least favorite parts of Malphite. I would much rather be squishier/do less damage than have such high mana costs. It just makes laning phase feel so bad. Not at this time, no. Different Champions fill different roles with regards to our overall player experience. Malphite has historically been a highly accessible champion that new and casual players flock to. While it may seem strange, keeping his mana costs high makes it very clear to players that they should build mana early on. This, of course, seamlessly transitions into what are already great items for him- Frozen Heart, Iceborne and Abyssal Mask. The high mana cost on Q in particular is really the only gating mechanism we have from making AP builds with Comet super oppressive in the early laning phase.
: For extendet trades? Not so much, old W gave more damage per AA. It will work for quick melee ranged trades, Q, then walk in for the AA reset and E for a steronger burst than now, and if you stay for AAs it's close to live(probably a bit better since the dps loss on W isn't very noticeable early on with low armor and W rank 1) What will be noticeable is the lower aoe burst as he won't have the heavily increased armor for his first E and some W procs after ult, while the new AA reset is only singletarget(atleast is says nothing about aoe on the **initial **attack) He also looses some freeze and waveclear potential with less aoe from W and no longer increased armor while the passive is up.
> [{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-05-03T20:44:15.931+0000) > > What will be noticeable is the lower aoe burst as he won't have the heavily increased armor for his first E and some W procs after ult, while the new AA reset is only singletarget(atleast is says nothing about aoe on the **initial **attack) > The initial auto attack from the reset creates an aftershock, too. That means that casting W and connecting with an enemy damages them in three ways simultaneously- Malphite's normal AA damage, the bonus "Thunderclap" damage that scales with AP and Armor, and the aftershock AoE (which also scales with AP and Armor). In addition, by making it all Physical damage, lane opponents will have a harder time itemizing against Malphite with pure MR. The end result is that W's damage is way up compared to Live, at this current tuning.
: Malphite changes coming to PBE
Thanks so much for all the feedback so far, everyone! As this is my first public project at Riot, the sudden exposure has hit me like a Malphite ult, so I apologize for not being able to answer everyone individually. Lots of great comments being made here, so I wanted to add more context to some of the biggest talking points I've seen so far: **Power and Build Paths**- these changes aren't meant to nerf Malphite. He actually has one of the healthiest and most balanced win rates and play rates in the game, if you look at it holistically. If the values are off, we will definitely adjust. As a goal of the project, AP and jungle builds are meant to be power neutral, too. **Triple Armor Buff**- For clarity, Malphite's W would still permanently increase his Armor by 10/15/20/25/30%. It was only the 3x multiplier when he had his shield that was on the chopping block. Seeing "900 Armor" is a fun aspect of his fantasy, though, and it's clear that people really loved socking it to those AD-heavy teams. Finding a way to bring this back in some form is my #1 takeaway from the feedback so far, so stay tuned on this one. **VGU versus Small Scale Updates**- For context, I was given a unique opportunity to work on a Champion I thought could use some love, partially as a way to ramp myself up with the tools and processes of the team. Since I'm so new to the company, it didn't make sense to upend everyone's existing pipelines and schedules to accommodate my experimental side project. While we obviously feel like there are plenty of Champions who could use larger scale reworks, this was a low risk, low scope way of helping Malphite out with the resources I had available to me. **VFX Updates**- One of our amazing VFX Artists was nice enough to sneak some Malphite work into his existing work schedule. He hasn't gotten to all of them yet, but it's already looking awesome and should be on the PBE next week. Keep in mind that you'll only see these on the BASE SKIN for the time being. **Next Steps**- I'm going to put together a revised proposal later today- stay tuned!
  Rioter Comments
Atinizer (NA)
: So, this actually gave me a pretty broken but awesome idea if it could actually be balanced. It said On next hit suppress and it affects towers, this sounds like a pretty baller ultimate for a possible diver, it would also be great to buy {{item:3056}} on them considering it's a forgotten item.
> [{quoted}](name=Atinizer,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-06-10T02:04:43.839+0000) > > So, this actually gave me a pretty broken but awesome idea if it could actually be balanced. It said On next hit suppress and it affects towers, this sounds like a pretty baller ultimate for a possible diver, it would also be great to buy {{item:3056}} on them considering it's a forgotten item. Nice! I loved that item. T_T
: Either way, it's still fun to use. I'm currently working on a concept with a Wildcard ability that alters the way his other abilities deal damage. Really liking how it's coming out. Oh yeah, and congrats on getting a job at Blizzard!
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T00:38:38.617+0000) > > Either way, it's still fun to use. I'm currently working on a concept with a Wildcard ability that alters the way his other abilities deal damage. Really liking how it's coming out. > > Oh yeah, and congrats on getting a job at Blizzard! I managed to fix it and also simplify the list in the process! I removed Gender and Race since creating random abilities is more of the focus compared to random Champions.
: Either way, it's still fun to use. I'm currently working on a concept with a Wildcard ability that alters the way his other abilities deal damage. Really liking how it's coming out. Oh yeah, and congrats on getting a job at Blizzard!
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T00:38:38.617+0000) > > Either way, it's still fun to use. I'm currently working on a concept with a Wildcard ability that alters the way his other abilities deal damage. Really liking how it's coming out. > > Oh yeah, and congrats on getting a job at Blizzard! Cool, ping me if you publish it on these forums! It sounds neat. :) And thank you! Pretty big moment for my career.
: Congratulations on your new job you totally deserve it! I haven't designed anything as of late, college keeps me busy and I've seemed to have drifted away from concepts and creations. I still enjoy reading them (gets the creative juices going) but I get frustrated mid concept and just let it go. Idon't mind, it's much more intriguing seeing what other people have to offer. Glad that a game company is keeping you busy, you do good work :)
> [{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uuQxluoH,comment-id=00ca000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-06T01:42:49.243+0000) > > Congratulations on your new job you totally deserve it! I haven't designed anything as of late, college keeps me busy and I've seemed to have drifted away from concepts and creations. I still enjoy reading them (gets the creative juices going) but I get frustrated mid concept and just let it go. Idon't mind, it's much more intriguing seeing what other people have to offer. > > Glad that a game company is keeping you busy, you do good work :) Thank you!
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
Paleo Electro was nice enough to get my Random Ability Generator stickied on the forums! I hope it finally gets some solid use from more than 1-2 dozen people. :)
: That it does. Though, I think the "special properties" might be broken, cause after refreshing it several times, I have yet to get one. All I get is a"..." in its place.
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T00:25:59.881+0000) > > That it does. > > Though, I think the "special properties" might be broken, cause after refreshing it several times, I have yet to get one. All I get is a"..." in its place. Yep, looks like you're right. I just tried fiddling with it but I don't think I can fix it unless I tried remaking the whole thing. Guess the special properties will become a "Choose Your Own Adventure" deal. :D
: Hello Again Lutz! Not sure if you'll ever see this, but, I was able to get the mods to pin this for awhile to give it some more visibility. It's only temporary, depending on how the traffic is for this thread, but hey, its still some visibility. Lets hope it gets some good traffic!
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-07T16:50:22.065+0000) > > Hello Again Lutz! > > Not sure if you'll ever see this, but, I was able to get the mods to pin this for awhile to give it some more visibility. > > It's only temporary, depending on how the traffic is for this thread, but hey, its still some visibility. > > Lets hope it gets some good traffic! Wow, that's awesome! Thank you for thinking of this thread and figuring out a way to do that. To be honest, I'm shocked the generator even works after all these years. :)
: Rabadon, the Death Mage
That feeling when Camille has Rabadon's Ultimate... 0_0
: > [{quoted}](name=Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uuQxluoH,comment-id=00ca,timestamp=2017-01-30T18:50:55.407+0000) > > I doubt anyone cares at this point (especially since I haven't been active here in almost two years), but I've been working on a digital card game in my spare time. It's provided the same kind of creative fulfillment that all my old League Champion concepts used to. I still come time and again to see if you've posted another piece, though it's getting rarer. I get life gets int he way and you're probably doing the same for other games as well. I always enjoyed reading your champion concepts and hope to still find you on this side of the boards section now and again. Super cool that you made a card game! Keep up the good work, hope to see another work from you soon! (maybe try posting a concept on a separate thread in addition to this one, this mega thread seems to be buried too deep for many to see)
> [{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uuQxluoH,comment-id=00ca0000,timestamp=2017-03-10T22:42:29.511+0000) > > I still come time and again to see if you've posted another piece, though it's getting rarer. I get life gets int he way and you're probably doing the same for other games as well. I always enjoyed reading your champion concepts and hope to still find you on this side of the boards section now and again. > > Super cool that you made a card game! Keep up the good work, hope to see another work from you soon! (maybe try posting a concept on a separate thread in addition to this one, this mega thread seems to be buried too deep for many to see) Hey Jazz! Can't believe you still managed to find this thread. I haven't been around in months! I recently accepted a job at Activision Blizzard so that has been keeping me busy. :) Have you designed anything new lately that you'd be interested in sharing with me?
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
I doubt anyone cares at this point (especially since I haven't been active here in almost two years), but I've been working on a digital card game in my spare time. It's provided the same kind of creative fulfillment that all my old League Champion concepts used to.
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
TSM looked a little shaky Week 1, but they're kicking ass right now!
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
I think this week marks a two year anniversary since the last time I played League of Legends. Yet I still scour every patch note and watch every NA LCS game. :)
: I wonder if Bjerg or Doublelift will retire as a result of this season?
> [{quoted}](name=Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uuQxluoH,comment-id=00c7,timestamp=2016-10-10T21:42:55.109+0000) > > I wonder if Bjerg or Doublelift will retire as a result of this season? ^ Called it!
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
I wonder if Bjerg or Doublelift will retire as a result of this season?
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
Eggbread (NA)
: Champion Gender Male Champion Race Yordle Champion Role Bruiser Damage Type Attack Damage **Ability 1** Ability Targeting Allies- Area of Effect Ability Mechanic Targeted Ability Primary Component Utility Ability Crowd Control Snare Ability Special Properties Global **Ability 2** Ability Targeting Enemies- Single Target Ability Mechanic Skillshot Ability Primary Component Heal Ability Crowd Control Knock-Up Ability Special Properties Execute **Ability 3** Ability Targeting Enemies- Single Target Ability Mechanic Targeted Ability Primary Component Damage Nuke (Strong) Ability Crowd Control Snare Ability Special Properties Re-castable **Ultimate** Ability Targeting Allies- Area of Effect Ability Mechanic Target Location Ability Primary Component Damage Nuke (Strong) Ability Crowd Control Displacement Ability Special Properties Rebirth/Cheat Death Interesting... EDIT: I just did it again, and all four of the abilities affected towers. Incredible pushing machine.
> [{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-09-29T13:01:08.513+0000) > > Champion Gender > Male > > Champion Race > Yordle > > Champion Role > Bruiser > > Damage Type > Attack Damage > > **Ability 1** > > Ability Targeting > Allies- Area of Effect > > Ability Mechanic > Targeted > > Ability Primary Component > Utility > > Ability Crowd Control > Snare > > Ability Special Properties > Global > > **Ability 2** > > Ability Targeting > Enemies- Single Target > > Ability Mechanic > Skillshot > > Ability Primary Component > Heal > > Ability Crowd Control > Knock-Up > > Ability Special Properties > Execute > > **Ability 3** > > Ability Targeting > Enemies- Single Target > > Ability Mechanic > Targeted > > Ability Primary Component > Damage Nuke (Strong) > > Ability Crowd Control > Snare > > Ability Special Properties > Re-castable > > **Ultimate** > > Ability Targeting > Allies- Area of Effect > > Ability Mechanic > Target Location > > Ability Primary Component > Damage Nuke (Strong) > > Ability Crowd Control > Displacement > > Ability Special Properties > Rebirth/Cheat Death > > Interesting... > > EDIT: I just did it again, and all four of the abilities affected towers. Incredible pushing machine. Cool combos! Now you've got to design some abilities that use those mechanics. :) I'd love to see it when you're done!
: > [{quoted}](name=Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-01T23:10:41.604+0000) > > *Reserved for future use.* Will you still use this as basis for your future concepts?
> [{quoted}](name=Prime Beholder,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=moHXmbzB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-29T12:17:40.667+0000) > > Will you still use this as basis for your future concepts? Hi Prime, I haven't designed any Champion concepts in well over a year, so I doubt I'll be using the generator much anymore. Still, I hope others can get some use out of it!
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
Just felt like stopping by to say hi! I'm still alive, and Ivern looks pretty neat!
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
This probably won't come as a surprise to anyone, but I've been working on some Overwatch Hero concepts in my free time. Nothing published, but it presents a new type of creative challenge for me. :)
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
It's been a long time since I visited these forums... maybe there are some new designers out there?
Raharu (NA)
: Champion Rework: Yorick, the Death Merchant
I appreciate the design philosophies here and the overall quality of work/effort. And I do think there are some cool concepts here that could make for an interesting Champion. I also acknowledge that you took this as more of a "re-imagining" than a "rework." That said, this doesn't feel like Yorick. The 'fantasy' that should be met is one of assembling and controlling an undead army. Yorick is clearly the type to use and abuse the ghouls he conscripts for his nefarious uses. A single bodyguard seems more like a partner or Annie/Tibbers situation. Yorick should view his minions as disposable, nameless, and ultimately there only to serve him.
Swegmec (NA)
: Why are other champion concepts so popular?
Thumbnails with intriguing images or seemingly impressive art has a lot to do with it. The algorithms Riot uses for its forum sorting/filtering is also a big part of it, since many casual forum-goers use the default sorting method of "What's Hot" instead of what's "Most Recent." If a thread gets some early clicks/likes/comments, it gets placed higher on the algorithm and then it just turns into a snowball effect. A "Hot" thread gets hotter because it's put in a more publicly visible spot, and then people who skim the forums notice a thread that has a lot of likes, so they click on it, like it, comment on it, etc. The growth can quickly become exponential at that point.
: [Champion Concept] Zone, the Opportunist (Work in Progress)
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Gear Roses,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dnHYi0dB,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-13T16:59:27.085+0000) > > "Taking the shot." http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/GC_rokz/Randomness/IamWindextor.jpg
: Lutzburg's Champion Concepts Mega Thread
Ronin seems to be doing well now that he's out in the wild. I kind of like the "Game Jam" approach I took with him. Maybe it's better not to dwell on the details too much, or waste any time second guessing my designs... Or maybe that's just asking for trouble. :D
: Not much for me to say about this class, it's very cool. What I like is that while he has the mobility of {{champion:245}}, he has very limited and conditional CC, making him more like a more mechanically advanced {{champion:84}} where he can use his dashes as for either gap closing or dodging skillshots. Very cool. Passive: A unique passive. Would you consider the mana cost starting off low, but if he uses them it rapid succession they have increased mana cost? I'm not saying he needs it or anything, was just curious. Sorry but I'm very poor at judging unit of distance with only numbers. Is it like a {{item:3152}} dash? Or is it a little longer? Q: Fantastic ability. I was toying with allowing Ronin to still dash while channeling, but I think you're correct in limiting his mobility in while channeling this ability W: Passive: To keep him from just gaining a MASSIVE shield with 4 back-to-back dashes, maybe have an internal cooldown on it (maybe 1.5 seconds, the classic spellblade passive for {{item:3100}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3025}} ). It could have a visual similar to {{champion:254}} 's passive where the circle on her back lights up the next time she uses an ability. I'm suggesting this as a) Without this limitation on the shields, the W passive alone would blow {{champion:254}} passive out of the water and b) It punish Ronin players that cannot chain together their combo correctly, very similar to {{champion:13}} Active: Love the active, can be used both defensively (a la {{champion:126}} E) or as a mini {{champion:79}} to knock back the enemy a little closer to your team via your passive dashes to get in such a position. Awesome E: As someone who wants to make flashy plays and clean up via kills for resets, you could make the bomb scale with missing % health damage (a la {{champion:60}} ) or have the damage increase in intensity BASED on their missing health (a la {{champion:76}} cougar q) . For example, an enemy on the edge of the blast takes no additional damage. This would encourage Ronin to use this as a combo finisher, allowing you with your passive to reposition for the next kill with another bomb after bringing them close to 25% health or so. R: Idea-wise seems fine to me. 450 range sounds like a lot to me, but again, I'm a poor judge of distance by units. Is that range similar to Kayle's E Very nice job, though I personally do not find mobile champions appealing, you've certainly made a cool looking champion. Congrats to Torshun for making the original! That concept art looks crazy awesome!
> [{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-05-15T21:37:24.611+0000) > > Not much for me to say about this class, it's very cool. What I like is that while he has the mobility of {{champion:245}}, he has very limited and conditional CC, making him more like a more mechanically advanced {{champion:84}} where he can use his dashes as for either gap closing or dodging skillshots. Very cool. > > Passive: A unique passive. Would you consider the mana cost starting off low, but if he uses them it rapid succession they have increased mana cost? I'm not saying he needs it or anything, was just curious. Sorry but I'm very poor at judging unit of distance with only numbers. Is it like a {{item:3152}} dash? Or is it a little longer? > > Q: Fantastic ability. I was toying with allowing Ronin to still dash while channeling, but I think you're correct in limiting his mobility in while channeling this ability > > W: Passive: To keep him from just gaining a MASSIVE shield with 4 back-to-back dashes, maybe have an internal cooldown on it (maybe 1.5 seconds, the classic spellblade passive for {{item:3100}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3025}} ). It could have a visual similar to {{champion:254}} 's passive where the circle on her back lights up the next time she uses an ability. I'm suggesting this as a) Without this limitation on the shields, the W passive alone would blow {{champion:254}} passive out of the water and b) It punish Ronin players that cannot chain together their combo correctly, very similar to {{champion:13}} > > Active: Love the active, can be used both defensively (a la {{champion:126}} E) or as a mini {{champion:79}} to knock back the enemy a little closer to your team via your passive dashes to get in such a position. Awesome > > E: As someone who wants to make flashy plays and clean up via kills for resets, you could make the bomb scale with missing % health damage (a la {{champion:60}} ) or have the damage increase in intensity BASED on their missing health (a la {{champion:76}} cougar q) . For example, an enemy on the edge of the blast takes no additional damage. This would encourage Ronin to use this as a combo finisher, allowing you with your passive to reposition for the next kill with another bomb after bringing them close to 25% health or so. > > R: Idea-wise seems fine to me. 450 range sounds like a lot to me, but again, I'm a poor judge of distance by units. Is that range similar to Kayle's E > > Very nice job, though I personally do not find mobile champions appealing, you've certainly made a cool looking champion. Congrats to Torshun for making the original! That concept art looks crazy awesome! Hey Jazz! Your response is everything I've come to expect and appreciate from you. Thoughts below- Passive- Yeah, a scaling mana cost could work. Giving Ronin the Kassadin treatment might be overkill but it should definitely be a tool in the toolbox to potentially use if needed. W- Yep, an internal cooldown might be necessary. I'm hoping that merely refreshing the shield with subsequent boosts and enticing the player with an empowered auto attack will keep Ronins from spamming this too much. It's a difficult balancing act, for sure. E- Love the idea for improving E, which is something that Lonely Flame has also expressed interest in. I'll try to incorporate this into the ability somehow! R- Kayle goes from 125 melee range to 525 ranged when activating her E, so this is considerably shorter than that. Mostly because, as you know, Ronin should be using Boost Jets to get in and out of position as often as possible. And yes, I'm not a personal fan of PLAYING champions like Ronin, but I can't help but admire players who know how to push them to their limits and exploit all their flashy tricks to great success. :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2016-05-18T02:32:55.225+0000) > The Q- I disagree that it's too straight forward or needs some jazzing up. It's on a short cooldown and is meant to be somewhat spammed. It already has the added component of the player being able to pivot Ronin while he's channeling, which I believe is already a never-before-seen mechanic in League (unless you want to count Rumble's Flamespitter, but his movement isn't inhibited at all). If its intended purpose is to be spammed then this goes against his passive doesn't it? He's whole thing is dashing after using an ability, so why does he have an ability that roots him for a few seconds? And there's quite a few champs who can move while channeling. Off the top of my head there's Corki and Vel'Koz. > The W- I'm fine with the duration of the shield refreshing upon multiple uses. As someone pointed out earlier, a ~200 HP shield every 2.4 seconds with some CDR is already pretty insane... not too keen on adding even more power to such a brainless and "free" passive component to this ability. I'll clarify that the only requirement for the Active component is that Ronin suffers 15% of his max health in a single instance of being in combat. If he tanks a baby wolf for 45 seconds at level 18, it'll activate. If he gets taken to 1% HP in a single ability, that'll trigger it, too. All good. The idea was fine as it was and I still actually like it quite a bit. This was more of a 'consider trying this' kind of comment but maybe didn't come across that way haha. > The E- This is probably the only ability that I agree with you regarding it getting spiced up somehow. Could possibly deal bonus damage to towers? Mmm I dunno about that. He doesn't really seem like an tower taker. Perhaps maybe some sort of armour shred? Maybe the more people it hits can have some sort of effect (not necessarily armour shred but something)? Or perhaps something with cooldown? > The R- I like the direction you're taking this on principle (gaining access to something "extreme" for a limited window). I just feel that raw attack speed, combined with becoming the equivalent of a marksman, combined with increased mobility, is already pretty amaze-balls. I think it's obvious that Ronin will be a champ who relies heavily on CDR in his most effective builds... I was kind of using the need to build CDR as a gating mechanism that prevents players from going full AD and becoming absolute monsters when they scale up and pop R. Then perhaps, kind of like how Kog'Maw can increase his max attack speed cap, Ronin could increase his max cooldown cap for a few seconds? The max is 40% at the moment, so maybe something like 50%/55%/60%? Really drive home the spam of his kit. You could kind of balance it out that each cast of the ability adds additional cost to cast (kind of like he's moving so fast it's taking a toll on him). I dunno just going a little bit wild here. > I definitely agree with your observation about mini-games, but I'm also not sure if every Champion they release from here on out really needs one. I guess you could say the new Champion's "worked ground" and wall-riding are both mini games. I just think that having 7 abilities and an on-hit passive all firing on short cooldowns with a strong emphasis on smart positioning and hyper mobility IS sort of the mini-game. Ronin is all about jukes, hit-and-runs, knowing when to duck in and dive out... that's a lot to keep track of. Rock Girl basically stands there with nothing to do except fling mid-range spells at you, so giving her something more dynamic and interactive to experience during a game becomes more important. Fair enough. What you have now is fine. I just like to really push things is all haha. I love seeing champs with ideas that weave into all aspects of the champ. > Again, thank you for all the constructive feedback and ideas. I hope my counters to some of your suggestions don't come across as hostile or defensive. I spent a significant amount of time thinking them all through and really took to heart everything you said. :) And not at all! I hope mine didn't come across as harsh either. I really like your idea and the only reason I commented at all was because I see potential here. As I've said a couple of times, they're my ideas and opinions, but it's your champ, so you don't need to make it how I want haha. Happy to help and more than willing to review it again once if you update or make enough changes to him.
> [{quoted}](name=Lonely Flame,realm=OCE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000b00010000,timestamp=2016-05-18T06:51:41.113+0000) >Happy to help and more than willing to review it again once if you update or make enough changes to him. Thanks again for all the thoughtful feedback. I really do appreciate it. If you didn't already see, I posted earlier referring to the shield refreshing as a parallel to {{champion:92}}'s empowered auto attacks in between ability casts. That might help get my core idea across better. As far as the rooted channel, I actually find that juxtaposition quite cool, and not counter-intuitive to his flighty nature. The idea being that the player needs to effectively abuse their mobility to put themselves into positions where they CAN safely plant themselves down and shoot for a second. Being able to both identify and then execute on these positioning opportunities is what will separate good Ronin players from great ones. I will think on the E for a while and let you know what I come up with. :)
Aejick (NA)
: I wanna 2nd the motion of having the Shield on (W)'s passive being able to stack. I think you should also bump the duration to 3 seconds as well! I also want to 2nd the motion that this guy has a good Idea for an Ultimate. Man, If I make another concept I hope you rework it like you did this one. This Champ seems fun!
> [{quoted}](name=Torshun,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-05-15T06:34:05.320+0000) > > I wanna 2nd the motion of having the Shield on (W)'s passive being able to stack. I think you should also bump the duration to 3 seconds as well! I also want to 2nd the motion that this guy has a good Idea for an Ultimate. Man, If I make another concept I hope you rework it like you did this one. This Champ seems fun! I am all for the idea of the shield refreshing on multiple uses, but part of the "mini game" for Ronin is in getting the most mileage out of his shields. Similar to Riven's empowered auto attack between abilities. if you spam all your mobility at once with Riven, you lose out on optimal DPS. I think the same idea can be applied to Ronin. Boost, absorb a little damage, boost again, absorb a little damage.
: Hey dude! Before I get started I want to say that the comments I make are purely my opinion, and that at the end of the day they're your champ and not my champ, so make them however you want :) > [{quoted}](name=Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T09:21:46.503+0000) > **Passive- Boost Jets**: While any basic Ability is on cooldown, it is replaced by Boost Jets. Activating Boost Jets causes Ronin to dash a fixed distance of 300 units in the direction of the player’s cursor, and empowers his next auto attack within 3 seconds. This empowerment deals +50% base AD and adds a burn effect to the target, dealing minor physical damage over the next 2.5 seconds. Boost Jets can be used independently across multiple Abilities, but only once in between casts of an individual Ability. > **Design Philosophy**: This is what Ronin’s entire kit is built around. It offers short bursts of limited but frequent mobility. It’s important to remember that each basic Ability houses its own instance of Boost Jets. In practice, this means that Ronin can cast Q/W/E to use three basic abilities, then use Q/W/E again to dash three times in a row. However, Boost Jets cost mana just like the rest of Ronin's Abilities, meaning that players can't simply spam Boost Jets without eventually succumbing to the consequences. This is a cool idea for a passive. I like the idea of not being completely stranded when your spells are on cool down. That said, it feels like a variation on Lee Sin's kit, albeit a bit striped back (ie rather than each ability having its own secondary active, they all share the same ability). This isn't necessarily bad, but just worth noting. > **Q- Burst Rifle (4 seconds)**: Ronin fires a line of bullets as a channeled skillshot with a 500 unit range. This barrage lasts 1.2 seconds and deals physical damage every .1 second. During the channel, Ronin can adjust his aim up to 45 degrees from the Ability’s point of origin. Ronin can cancel the channel by moving or activating another Ability, and it is susceptible to interruption from crowd control effects. > **Design Philosophy**: This ability is similar to Pantheon’s E, but its zone of effectiveness is a thin line, rather than a cone. It allows Ronin to CS safely in lane, as the effect goes through targets. It also acts as the primary harassment tool in Ronin’s standard combo- Pulse Bomb towards an enemy, Boost Jet in, Q, Boost Jet out. Very simple and straight forward. Nothing great, nothing terrible. Just sort of middle ground. See if you can come up with a little extra to this some how. Maybe if you have your shield active something different happens? I dunno. > **W- Endothermic Vents (18 seconds)**: Passive- Ronin gains an overshield each time he uses Boost Jets. This overshield lasts for 2 seconds and absorbs (20/40/60/80/100 + 5 per level) damage. > > Active- While in combat, if Ronin suffers damage greater than 15% of his maximum health, he can activate his Endothermic Vents. This causes a powerful blast of steam to shoot around him in a 300 radius aura, knocking enemies back a fixed distance and dealing physical damage that increases based on how much damage Ronin suffered before activating the Ability. > **Design Philosophy**: The knockback can be used both as a self-peeling tool, as well as a way to strategically push squishy targets into closer proximity of Pulse Bombs that are about to explode. The scaling damage component encourages Ronin players to endure as much punishment as possible before popping their Vents, mimicking a game of Chicken with their opponents and acting like a pseudo Execute. I actually like this idea quite a bit, but feel it could be improved. For the passive, maybe have it so the effect could stack in either strength, duration or both. That way if you quickly cast your kit, you can follow it up with your passive on your Q W and E for a beasty shield. For his active, clarify the condition of the 15%. It is 15% off one ability? Or 15% in the last X seconds? > **E- Pulse Bomb (10 seconds)**: Ronin tosses a pulse bomb at a target location up to 900 units away, which explodes after 1.5 seconds and deals scaling physical damage based on an enemy’s proximity to the center of the blast. The bomb has an explosion radius of 250 units. If Pulse Bomb kills an enemy Champion, its cooldown is set to 1.5 seconds. > **Design Philosophy**: Pulse Bomb is intended to be Ronin’s highest damage Ability. By refreshing its cooldown on kills, players can make incredibly flashy plays, swapping between Boost Jets and Pulse Bombs multiple times in order to clean up late game team fights. Again, the ability itself is pretty straight forward. I do like the reset on kill aspect and the interaction that has with his passive is actually really well thought out. Other than that, again consider how you could make this a little more special. > **R- Critical Mass (90 seconds)**: Ronin supercharges his arm cannons for the next 6/8/10 seconds. During this time, Boost Jet’s range is increased by 150 units. In addition, Ronin gains 30/40/50% attack speed and the ability to auto attack from 450 range. > **Design Philosophy**: It was important to both mechanically and thematically tie Ronin’s Ultimate back to his Passive, which was the primary inspiration from which the rest of his kit was built around. This turns Ronin into an even more agile, evasive skirmisher, exemplifying his core mechanics and granting him the ability to make flashy plays. Seems alright, but again very simple. I would actually much rather prefer increased cooldown on his abilities in some way rather than the attack speed buff. His kit is around utilizing the dash from his passive, and you want to be able to spam that as much as possible. Something extreme like "Ronin's cooldowns are reduced by 50% for the duration". Overall, there are some cool ideas here, and I like how you have worked this into your own from the original. My advice would be to think about your minigame. Riot have put a strong emphasis on each champ having some sort of 'minigame' now, Sol has his orbit, Jihn counts to 4, Illaoi has her tentacles and so on. Even the reworked champs get something minor added. My suggestion would be using the 'Booster Jets' as yours. The shield is cool, try to push that more. Maybe if you Booster Jet off your Q it could provide a damage buff instead of a shield, giving you the choice of damage over defense. Managing your abilities and getting the best you can from your Boosts. I dunno I'm just spit balling. Again these are my opinions so they don't need to mean a thing haha. Nice work dude, look forward to seeing this develop.
> [{quoted}](name=Lonely Flame,realm=OCE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-05-14T19:39:46.533+0000) > > Hey dude! Before I get started I want to say that the comments I make are purely my opinion, and that at the end of the day they're your champ and not my champ, so make them however you want :) > > This is a cool idea for a passive. I like the idea of not being completely stranded when your spells are on cool down. That said, it feels like a variation on Lee Sin's kit, albeit a bit striped back (ie rather than each ability having its own secondary active, they all share the same ability). This isn't necessarily bad, but just worth noting. > > Very simple and straight forward. Nothing great, nothing terrible. Just sort of middle ground. See if you can come up with a little extra to this some how. Maybe if you have your shield active something different happens? I dunno. > > I actually like this idea quite a bit, but feel it could be improved. For the passive, maybe have it so the effect could stack in either strength, duration or both. That way if you quickly cast your kit, you can follow it up with your passive on your Q W and E for a beasty shield. > > For his active, clarify the condition of the 15%. It is 15% off one ability? Or 15% in the last X seconds? > > Again, the ability itself is pretty straight forward. I do like the reset on kill aspect and the interaction that has with his passive is actually really well thought out. Other than that, again consider how you could make this a little more special. > > Seems alright, but again very simple. I would actually much rather prefer increased cooldown on his abilities in some way rather than the attack speed buff. His kit is around utilizing the dash from his passive, and you want to be able to spam that as much as possible. Something extreme like "Ronin's cooldowns are reduced by 50% for the duration". > > Overall, there are some cool ideas here, and I like how you have worked this into your own from the original. My advice would be to think about your minigame. Riot have put a strong emphasis on each champ having some sort of 'minigame' now, Sol has his orbit, Jihn counts to 4, Illaoi has her tentacles and so on. Even the reworked champs get something minor added. My suggestion would be using the 'Booster Jets' as yours. The shield is cool, try to push that more. Maybe if you Booster Jet off your Q it could provide a damage buff instead of a shield, giving you the choice of damage over defense. Managing your abilities and getting the best you can from your Boosts. I dunno I'm just spit balling. Again these are my opinions so they don't need to mean a thing haha. Nice work dude, look forward to seeing this develop. Hey Flame, thanks so much for the detailed and thoughtful feedback. You make some good points, but also raise some issues that don't concern me as much as they seem to concern you. For instance- The Q- I disagree that it's too straight forward or needs some jazzing up. It's on a short cooldown and is meant to be somewhat spammed. It already has the added component of the player being able to pivot Ronin while he's channeling, which I believe is already a never-before-seen mechanic in League (unless you want to count Rumble's Flamespitter, but his movement isn't inhibited at all). The W- I'm fine with the duration of the shield refreshing upon multiple uses. As someone pointed out earlier, a ~200 HP shield every 2.4 seconds with some CDR is already pretty insane... not too keen on adding even more power to such a brainless and "free" passive component to this ability. I'll clarify that the only requirement for the Active component is that Ronin suffers 15% of his max health in a single instance of being in combat. If he tanks a baby wolf for 45 seconds at level 18, it'll activate. If he gets taken to 1% HP in a single ability, that'll trigger it, too. The E- This is probably the only ability that I agree with you regarding it getting spiced up somehow. Could possibly deal bonus damage to towers? The R- I like the direction you're taking this on principle (gaining access to something "extreme" for a limited window). I just feel that raw attack speed, combined with becoming the equivalent of a marksman, combined with increased mobility, is already pretty amaze-balls. I think it's obvious that Ronin will be a champ who relies heavily on CDR in his most effective builds... I was kind of using the need to build CDR as a gating mechanism that prevents players from going full AD and becoming absolute monsters when they scale up and pop R. I definitely agree with your observation about mini-games, but I'm also not sure if every Champion they release from here on out really needs one. I guess you could say the new Champion's "worked ground" and wall-riding are both mini games. I just think that having 7 abilities and an on-hit passive all firing on short cooldowns with a strong emphasis on smart positioning and hyper mobility IS sort of the mini-game. Ronin is all about jukes, hit-and-runs, knowing when to duck in and dive out... that's a lot to keep track of. Rock Girl basically stands there with nothing to do except fling mid-range spells at you, so giving her something more dynamic and interactive to experience during a game becomes more important. Again, thank you for all the constructive feedback and ideas. I hope my counters to some of your suggestions don't come across as hostile or defensive. I spent a significant amount of time thinking them all through and really took to heart everything you said. :)
: Ronin, the Shadow Soldier
Rooting for CLG tonight!
: Ronin, the Shadow Soldier
I think it's time for Ronin to come out from the shadows of the second page. >_>
Zok72 (NA)
: I'm not even sure the gameplay is a problem so much. With the right tuning/scalings this could be a healthier version of fiora's design. A sort of high mobility champ who can itemize for a choice between high damage like yasuo and/or tankyness like poppy. For example, keep the base damage low (so tanky builds don't do too much damage) and give him strong AD scaling on his q damage and maybe bonus health scaling on the shield? That way a tank build gets progressively harder to kill during the game and an AD build gets more damage, but the two don't overlap much (except maybe a titanic hydra build).
> [{quoted}](name=Zok72,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-05-13T13:17:49.708+0000) > > I'm not even sure the gameplay is a problem so much. With the right tuning/scalings this could be a healthier version of fiora's design. A sort of high mobility champ who can itemize for a choice between high damage like yasuo and/or tankyness like poppy. For example, keep the base damage low (so tanky builds don't do too much damage) and give him strong AD scaling on his q damage and maybe bonus health scaling on the shield? That way a tank build gets progressively harder to kill during the game and an AD build gets more damage, but the two don't overlap much (except maybe a titanic hydra build). Yeah that's a very sound idea. If/when I ever go back and add more hard numbers and scaling to Ronin, this is definitely a great starting point.
: The first photo alone makes me want this to become a thing so unbelievably bad. This is one hell of a concept and I want it to become more than that so much! Such a fun idea for a champ, and all i have left to say is Riot plz.
> [{quoted}](name=SillyWhiteChild,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-05-13T05:43:50.249+0000) > > The first photo alone makes me want this to become a thing so unbelievably bad. This is one hell of a concept and I want it to become more than that so much! Such a fun idea for a champ, and all i have left to say is Riot plz. Haha thank you! I really fell in love with the reference image when I first saw it. I'm really glad you enjoyed the concept so much. Check out my Mega Thread if you get the chance- you'll probably find more stuff you like. ^_^
Zok72 (NA)
: This concept is really strong. Pretty much the only thing I don't like is the reset on pulse bomb. For a champion with what looks like a pretty jax-like combat profile I think kill resets are excessive and run the risk of being pretty broken. With iceborn and a 195 damage shield every 2.4 seconds lategame he seems like a scaling monster even without free pulse bombs. I'm thinking about the current ekko/poppy type builds and imagining this guy just rampaging all over the rift (which I see as a good thing). Still, kudos on the cool idea.
> [{quoted}](name=Zok72,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kaZhzn6E,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-05-13T05:24:30.864+0000) > > This concept is really strong. Pretty much the only thing I don't like is the reset on pulse bomb. For a champion with what looks like a pretty jax-like combat profile I think kill resets are excessive and run the risk of being pretty broken. With iceborn and a 195 damage shield every 2.4 seconds lategame he seems like a scaling monster even without free pulse bombs. I'm thinking about the current ekko/poppy type builds and imagining this guy just rampaging all over the rift (which I see as a good thing). > > Still, kudos on the cool idea. Yeah you make a very good point. A CDR build and quick reflexes could create some pretty unhealthy gameplay patterns. Q's base CD could be raised to compensate, or it could be set at a fixed cooldown. Or the shield effect could be reduced somehow. Or a combination of two of these things! I'm certainly open to it.
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Riot Lutzburg

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