: Hi Meddler, just wanted to ask why the crit changes will be pushed back? Is it that you guys don't have enough data or haven't play tested enough? Also, any idea how tryndamere will be buffed after the crit changes, as his ability to melt will be weakened with the IE change, and the PD shield won't do much for him.
They were never really planned for 9.2, we'll buff/nerf any Champs as appropriate after the item changes go live, it's a bit hard to gauge exactly how hard/soft Champs will be impacted by broad system changes
: Vayne's winratio skyrocketed to 54% in the span of one day.
Need to be careful with external sites when it comes to reporting the current day - there tends to be weird things with how the data gets parsed. See below for an example on Cass - her winrate certainly didn't plummet to 44% today. https://imgur.com/5pnaFmu The image below is what we're seeing in regards to her winrate increase at high mmr (plat+). https://i.imgur.com/rC5edyD.png Can't for the life of me get those images to work inline with the post, but if you hover over them you can see em.
: Any context on {{champion:24}} nerf ? I mean nerfing his R on later ranks wont impact his jungle performance and overall toplane performance,but will leave him weaker lategame(Correct me if im wrong,but Jax has always been iconic lategame bruiser).Wouldnt it be better to nerf his early game,where he is currently strong(for example - early E damage 50 + 50% bAD scale,100 + 100%bAD when charged,how about nerfing it ? or maybe his base ad,which is super high level 1 - 70AD.Maybe reducing it early with larger growth per level will be good idea since it will influence decently his laning and jungle even more)
The reason we removed the power from his late game is largely due to how his performance scales with MMR (he's better at low MMR, scaling down the higher MMR you go). There's a fairly sizeable discrepancy in how long games last between low MMR and higher MMR (low = slower games, high = faster games), so we removed the majority of the power from his lvl 16 which he hits far more frequently in lower MMR due to games lasting longer. He's also more of a terror when being played in the jungle, so we wanted to leave more of his dueling tools in tact for lane.
Moody P (NA)
: Jungle is too strong a role right now and a jungler manages to get top lane nerfed season 9 already set up to fail
Someone pointed out his tweet to me after we'd already made the change. We're also nerfing jungle in preseason (less xp mid/late)
Opistach (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=M4P9uhEc,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-11-07T00:11:22.809+0000) > > Yo - we in there Aye, lets go boss
Hey! I'm so sorry I let this slip :( Have you played it yet?
: Set a Goal to Hit Silver From Bronze 4 COMPLETED IT!
You da real mvp :) Onwards and upwards to Gold 4 next year!
: Hey Meddler, you mentioned a few QGT's back that Zoe was being looked at and had some possible changes in the making but then went silent on it. Are those still happening? or are we currently happy with where she falls in terms of gameplay/power?
We haven't been putting time into those atm. In the midst of preseason work we have had very little time to devote to individual champ work, and for designers that did have time we've been putting it into those pro play victim champs who we can hopefully bring back to rough parity. I suspect some of her frustration will go away when you have MR to start the game (less poke/burst in lane phase), but should she continue to be an issue we'll work on her again I'm sure.
ozzirp (NA)
: Any update on the scaling cdr shard? Also is it true there will be a 4th slot of the shards?
Currently all the rows only have 3 stat shards, but we're super open to adding more in the future (up to 4 per row)
Opistach (NA)
: Missed it for my 1,000th and 2,000th win...
: Yorick right now it just a pretty sad thing to see
HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly
: If Riot wants to add more strategic gameplay, add the dragon spawn order during pregame
: Are you going to remove the transcendence rune since you can now get 20% cdr from runes or will it stay?
No plans to remove the rune atm.
: Could you guys possibly consider making attack speed a 4th option in the 2nd row? A lot of champions, junglers especially, benefit from being able to double down on attack speed. Also, why did you make the AS of the AS stat shard 1% less than if you went Precision with any tree but inspiration this season, while adaptive force remains the same? Also, if I am lucky enough for a rioter to read this comment, what are your opinions on the states of {{champion:254}} and {{champion:421}} I love both these champions quite a lot, maining them both for extensive periods of time in the past. However, it has become increasingly difficult to pilot either of these champions in a decent elo at this point, with Vi's problem being that her damage is frontloaded into her Q, which is very easy to telegraph and dodge compared to skills like Camille E and Gragas E. Also, her ultimate has become increasingly more frustrating to use, due to the introduction of more champions with untargetability and the introduction of Stopwatch. This leaves her to only be decent in lower elos, where players do not know how to exploit her weaknesses. I think a Xin Zhao-esque update would greatly benefit Vi, cutting off some excess damage from her abilities while giving her more options in her kit and some quality of life changes. Rek'Sai is a champion who is currently way too clunky and unreliable to use against decent players. While I do agree that damage Rek'Sai is a better design for her as opposed to tank Rek'Sai, Rek'Sai is currently unable to utilize building damage due to how laughably easy it is to dodge her E and her R, due to her E being a fixed distance no matter what, unlike practically any other engage tool that any jungler has in the game, and her R being dodgable by even the slightest movement speed buff. You could trim off damage from Rek'Sai as well in exchange for more reliable engage tools (Maybe making her able to unburrow in the middle of her E or removing the lockout after casting her R). Thank you to any Rioter that took their time to read my post, and I appreciate any feedback that you have to give me. :)
AS is one of the options we're considering for the second row, but we haven't 100% locked in on that yet
Ataraxas (NA)
: Where does all this leave the non-SR modes?!?
No changes to the rest of the modes maps themselves (turret plating doesn't migrate), rune changes will be reflected though
: Don't forget to change Forecast Janna's line about dragon spawns. 6 minutes >>> 5 minutes.
Oh god damn...that would be too tricky to get that redone :( We'll probably just have to disable that line
: Tangential off of tank items, what does it look like for a tank to carry a game? I assume its not appropriate for a tank to be doing tons of damage, but is there anything more than "being unkillable." The game feel bad when there are unkillable champs, damage needs to peek higher than defense for the game to reach and end, but I don't know what carry potential that leaves for tanks. I refuse to accept that tanks can't carry, I'm sure they can. Please tell me how.
Tank's can carry by being a disruptive force in a teamfight which allow damage dealers to actually get their damage off. Whether that be peeling enemies trying to dive your back line, by initiating a teamfight with something like Righteous Glory, or getting a pick with your cc - Tanks have all kinds of ways of being the carry for the team, it just looks different than an ADC. If a tank goes 0/2/20 in a game and the adcgoes 20/2/0, it could very well be the tank that carried the game by setting up plays for the ADC.
: Why the middle line of the stat shards does not have attack speed or CDR while having adaptative AD/AP? This seems unfair, since we would have 2 Adaptative choices possible but just one AS/CDR. I thought you guys said on the last preseason post that this line/tier would be the joker one, where you could pick any stats from the options.
AS is definitely on the table as the 4th slot, but we're exploring whether we can add any additional stats that are of equal appeal. We're still deciding on it, so we didn't want to say "this slot is MS, or CDR" or some other thing only to get people excited and then disappoint them if we go with something else.
Velasan (NA)
: I was imagining the new stat shards as being: 1. Have to choose an attack stat 2. Have to choose a defense stat 3. Free stat Looks more like it's limited to specific options on both the last two. For example, I only see HP being an option once in there. Was there a specific reason for that decision? That would drastically cut the amount of HP you can have on a character, because the current page bonus for resolve first into say precision/inspiration would be 135/270 respectively vs. the 90 currently listed. I realize the numbers are changing, but I'm asking because a potential difference of 180 HP is a big change and seems like a conscious decision. Thank you for reading.
That number is likely close to final tuning, and some of the reasoning is that tanks benefit the most out of having an enforced defensive option. Armor/MR increases their EHP more so than other champs as they build more hp items throughout the game. That being said, we're going to discuss whether we should do a small pass on tank items and bump up their stats a wee bit, nothing for sure though
: Why does the HP stat shard give hardly half a ruby crystal worth of HP - at lvl 18 - ? Do you have any intention of upping that number?
That number is likely close to final tuning, and some of the reasoning is that tanks benefit the most out of having an enforced defensive option. Armor/MR increases their EHP more so than other champs as they build more hp items throughout the game. That being said, we're going to discuss whether we should do a small pass on tank items and bump up their stats a bit, nothing for sure though
: Question, has riot ever considering making towers do % of health to champions to deal with tanks being too safe at diving? I feel like a 3000+ HP tank should be able to dive better than a 1700 hp ADC or something but should also be worried about taking too many tower shots.
I think the current changes will actually go a decent way into making champs in general need to think twice about when it is/is not a good time to dive the turret. I know it's been talked about in the past (like years ago) but can't recall the pros/cons at the time.
: You guys could add a special effect to the turret when it receives the bulwark effect, like having it glowing while the effect lasts. I think that would make it more clear.
Oh that part we're doing! It's going to be similar to gargoyle stoneplate effect. We had some weird issues hooking it up so it didn't make it to the PBE build yet, but the bulwark stacks are going to be well communicated
: That doesn't answer the question for Ziggs though! Can Ziggs now only use his W on a turret that is below ~25% health **and** without plates? (Or, alternatively, am I misunderstanding how plates work because I just woke up and my brain is currently trying to get out of the negative ranges of IQ?)
Ziggs can use his w once the turret hits the threshold regardless of how many plates are standing
: Do you plan on giving us back a crit rune? I loved the 1% crit rune especially as an adc main and now I feel like it left a void that hasn't been filled by any new runes
Unfortunately not. We're giving out far less stats in this system than in the one before, and we want to ensure that the stats we do provide have the largest audience possible. Totally feel you on there being a void however, but we won't be solving it this way. Sorry fam :(
Guts Man (NA)
: Will the CDR bonus work separate to items? So if you have 40% CDR via items, will the rune page CDR still lower that amount? My guess was it would be a "base" (as in, it reduces cool downs by the abilities' cool down amount excluding items) type CDR that would work regardless of itemization, just wanted to clarify. Thanks!
This won't lower the amount, this CDR will just help get you to the cap
: Loving pretty much everything, but a few short questions on this: > [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NPBRPjqf,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-23T17:09:00.290+0000)Each Plate represents 1000 Turret HP Does this mean that when the last plate falls, the tower dies? Or is this a 5000 hit point buffer on top of the actual turret health? >Armor and MR provided by Turret Plating :: 40 + 30 for each plate destroyed Do you find this is difficult to convey? For me it seems odd that less visible shielding actually results in a tougher tower. >Gold reward per destroyed plate :: 160 local gold (divided among nearby champions) 160 gold per plate is 800 gold. Do you mean 160 gold across ALL plates, or are early towers now worth nearly 1k gold? If so, is this entire 800 gold value lost if the plates are not destroyed before 14:00? >Bulwark :: + 25 Armor and MR per nearby enemy champion past the first on destroying a plate. * Does the visible effect change to make this difference clear in the presence of multiple champions? * Is there a specific reason you opted for this over something more visible like a shield on the health bar? * Is the range long enough that this isn't easily abusable by popping in and out of range when a barrier is about to fall?
> Does this mean that when the last plate falls, the tower dies? Or is this a 5000 hit point buffer on top of the actual turret health? If you manage to destroy the last plate, the turret falls at the same time >Do you find this is difficult to convey? For me it seems odd that less visible shielding actually results in a tougher tower. Admittedly this isn't he most elegant solution. We went through a ton of different iterations of reists, hp amounts per plate(scaling hp per plate etc) but this ended up being the cleanest version. > 160 gold per plate is 800 gold. Do you mean 160 gold across ALL plates, or are early towers now worth nearly 1k gold? If so, is this entire 800 gold value lost if the plates are not destroyed before 14:00? Currently it's 160 gold per plate. In average games we only see 2-3 plates being destroyed (and often times not at all), so cashing in on the full amount is going to be a pretty high exception. These numbers are super open to tuning, but it's felt like an appropriate risk reward. With these levels you'll often see people sticking around longer than they likely should which puts them in great position for jungle ganks. We're going to be monitoring closely for sure > Does the visible effect change to make this difference clear in the presence of multiple champions? Is there a specific reason you opted for this over something more visible like a shield on the health bar? Is the range long enough that this isn't easily abusable by popping in and out of range when a barrier is about to fall? Yep, the difference on the shield is pretty clear. Right now we're working on a effect similar to stoneplate to play on the turret. The range hasn't been abusable in our tests but if it ends up being the case we can tune it easily.
: The Barricade looks a little... off. It's the edges. It looks wonky. It's like how wonky Nexus Siege borders looked against the smooth edges of everything else. Just compare the Barriade to the rest of the tower, even. The Barricade looks too... "sharp"?
That was a super wip version, I just posted a 3rd preseason update here that has the final version! https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/NPBRPjqf-preseason-dev-update-number-3
  Rioter Comments
: i honestly like theses Worlds, its so much better than ardent meta or any "everyone for adc". But clearly, Irelia and Kaisa needed some nerfs before worlds patch. Anyway, kai'sa is nerfed on pbe, hope you'll nerf Irelia AND GRAVES !!!!! (-3 AD seriously).
the nerf to graves + dark harvest dropped him ~2.8% at high mmr. You have to factor base ad into every single auto attack over a game, every ability combo - it all adds up
: Taliyah Suggestion to help her midlane without buffing her JG.
Hmm, that's an interesting suggestion actually. I could see there potentially being some oddity for your opponent who now needs to keep track of whether or not you reduced the cd of some worked ground or not (but tbh I don't think many people track this well anyway). I do wonder if maybe just shrinking the radius of her worked ground slightly would also do the trick to give you more possible angles to shoot from, without needing to worry about variable cds. She rarely uses the same patch in the jungle as you said, so it also wouldn't really buff her jungle.
: Irelia 83% win rate at worlds.
For a lengthy tournament like World's it's often best to wait until the end to asses what the overall balance state of the game was. As an example, last week we were being mocked because Kai'sa had a 65% winrate in playins. Now in groups she has a 37% winrate. By the end of the tournament she could totally climb again, but it remains to be seen. Even after this post irelia lost two straight, bringing that 83% winrate down to 63%. When we're dealing with small sample sizes, swings in champ performances can be really drastic after just one day of games, or as the meta in a tournament evolves.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v82HELEA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-10T22:55:50.103+0000) > > You're definitely right in that it was a mistake made by Riot! We're working on getting a fix out since this is actually a bug :( Oh, and testing such obvious feature is too much to ask for, eh? QA is a joke. "Oh, we just pump in something in the editors, built the files, ship it out to millions of clients...but testing it first locally???"
We didn't see this on any of our internal playtests, and it only started happening once the patch was live so we're trying to figure out what happened.
: don't forget the bug with anivia and overheal, it gives her a shield for a very large amount when she eggs
That should be fixed as of last night!
: ***
Gesundheit! What people wanted is to just have us jack up turret damage and turret hp and leave it at that. Doing so would make low mmr games drag on forever, as well as completely dissuade turret dives at all. Turrets at the end of the day are intended to be objectives that a team captures to progress the game, not an impenetrable building that prevents action in a game. In preseason we're changing turret mechanics quite a bit to allow us to make them stronger, which we couldn't have done on a normal patch in a season.
Flemman (EUW)
: maybe it's the same bug as aram health relic, those are invisible from time to time since last patch
Would imagine it to be related for sure, this is probably caused by one thing which impacts several circle visuals. Hopefully we can track it down quickly
Byrdyflu (NA)
: Dear Riot, Please Buff Tower damage
Outer turret health as well as damage is going up in preseason :)
Esdese (EUW)
: Don't forget, along with the fix, to nerf other champions in order to balance Kai'Sa (best joke 2018 I have ever heard from you tbh).
Glad I could give you a giggle!
SKHynix (EUW)
: Please fix Shaco's boxes death sound, annoying bug as hell
: Hey MapleNectar. Speaking of bugs I played a match yesterday’s and Skarners pillars and scuttle pool would not show in game. I could see their location in my minimap but once I arrived to its location thy were invisible to me. Sometimes they would pop back then go away again. Just thought I’d let you know. :)
Thanks for the heads up! I saw that on an internal playtest yesterday, but figured it was just a bug for us. Surprised to hear thatits also live, will make sure to look into it!
BuggyBee (EUNE)
: The new font is terrible
You're definitely right in that it was a mistake made by Riot! We're working on getting a fix out since this is actually a bug :(
: UI and Text should not be so small
This is actually the result of a bug :( We're working on getting a fix out asap since it definitely wasn't intended.
: SUSPENDED FOR 14 DAYS FOR DOING STRATEGICALLY MINDED SION
I'll forward this along to some folks who should be able to help!
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: I love it when Maple Nectar talks about Kai'sa
"I also like to put things in quotes that don't reflect what someone said" - D357R0Y3R Let me rephrase the statement which was from the post where I was talking about why we hadn't nerfed some of the high presence champs in pro play on 8.19. Hope this is clearer for you. 1. On 8.15/8.16 Kai'sa had high presence in pro play (76%), but had more picks than bans. 2. On 8.18 we nerfed her. 3. On 8.19 we opted to not nerf her again due to the fact we'd already nerfed her since the last pro play we'd seen. 4. On 8.19 we instead buffed some champs that are considered decent against her as a low range marksman (Pyke, Thresh, Kog'maw), while nerfing some that gave her a lot of protection (Braum/Tahm Kench). We're doing some power curve shifts to Kai'sa for potentially 8.21, but it's more involved than a standard buff/nerf and not something we were going to do for 8.19. Really enjoy talking on the boards!
: Meddler On Worlds 2018 - ''No champions should be 100% pick/ban, or very close to it''
Akali - Our nerf in 8.17 hit pretty hard - scaling exponentially with MMR (on that patch she dropped ~0.5% at low MMR all the way up to 2.6% at high MMR). We hadn't seen any pro play with the nerfs, and also believe that there are counters to Akali that hadn't yet been picked up much (Zil, Veigar, maybe even Renekton as we've been watching in KR solo queue as examples). Nerfing her blindly even further seemed incorrect given her live performance. Kai'sa was already making it through a lot of ban phases in playoffs/regional qualifiers meaning that pros were willing to play against her. We'd nerfed her on 8.18, nerfed several supports frequently picked to keep her safe in lane phase, and buffed some pretty strong lanes against her. Meddler already touched on Alistar. When it comes to balancing for pro play, a question you always need to be asking is "ok so who's next?". If we had swung hard and nerfed Urgot and Aatrox on 8.19, the likely result is that folks like Cho, Ornn, and Sion raise in priority. Nerf Graves, Camille, Olaf, you see more Gragas, Sej, and Trundle. Nerf Kai'sa, Varus, you see more Ezreal Trist, and Xayah (and Rakan as a result of their synergy). Everything is a tradeoff at the end of the day, and this year we opted for the strategy of buffing more of the counters to the champs at the top as a means of bringing the highest presence and lower presence champs closer to parity rather than just replacing the current top picks with the next in lane champs in the middle. This is kind of glossing over a pretty large topic, but hope it sheds some light.
: no he fucking didn't. they were even on cs. also a support main. who woulda thunk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sA-WSrkm-c this is the game. being a kill up but being cs behind doesn't mean you won bot. he didn't. and the adc carried the game on enemy team
At 13:34 SUP Zeitnot takes out G2s bot turret and is 1/0/2 136 cs to G2 Hjarnan's 1/1/0 123 cs (SUP turret is at 75% at this point). At that same point in the game in mid GBM is 0/1/1 106 cs to Perkz is 1/0/0 140 cs. How in the world are you evaluating lane advantages when you're looking at these games? Side note: The fact that Charge Attack is a support main has literally nothing to do with the fact he provided an example that disproves your analysis, ad hominems do nothing to further a discussion.
: scaling damage or starting damage? The problem has been tanky targets not taking enough damage, but it seems fine for other people.
Currently we're testing scaling
: Hey there Meddler and MapleNectar, I have a question Do you think it would be useful to assist with onboarding of new players to do a pass at, especially older champions, for ability key consistency? What I mean is there should probably be an expectation of what ability is one what key. Almost every champion has their primary damaging ability on Q, so why isn't fiddlesticks, for example? Sejuani's Q is almost identical to Gragas' E, But they are on totally different keys... Why is that? It seems like it might cause confusion FOR A SHORT TIME to change the way things are, but it seems like it would help so much down the line. Preseason seems like a reasonable time to look at this.
I know that the team has tried to use a framework for what keys get what abilities over the years, but sometimes it doesn't work for all champs. I think it'd be really awkward to retrofit into champs now, especially for players that have played champs for years. Maybe making it easier to rebind would work? Or make it a feature that you can turn on or is turned on as a new player. Not a bad idea, though probably also relatively low value with cost as a consideration
: Hey Maple do you have an update on the proposed bounty changes from last update, scruffy said you guys were reconsidering it. Could you also share if you guys want to change any items as well
Not much to update on bounties beyond what's in the post. We've been doing a lot of tuning and trying to figure out things like if we can make them based on your matchup as opposed to the enemy team but in a way that doesn't warp game state. It's pretty complex, but we're still playing around a lot. No current item changes planned, potentially some runes though
: Is the bounty off _gold gain from minions_ or Creep Score itself? I ask cause if it's off creep score...then best not to forget to adjust how much CS players get from killing specific things. IIRC Cannon Minions are same CS as caster minions despite easily being x3 the gold value. Though you'll need to go over everything with a fine toothed comb if creepscore is suddenly connected to an actual in game benefit (bounties).
It's off gold gain from minions exactly for the reason you called out
: Hey MapleNectar, I think it was a couple months ago that a few rioters talked of a 'slowburn' project for ap bruiser itemization (though I can't find the thread atm). I'm curious if you know much about any of the ideas being thrown around and if the project is making any progress. ty, a {{champion:131}} loving silver noob
Hey there! No exploration right now. After we slowed down our normal exploration as a result of the rate of change concerns from players, we pivoted the team to focus on preesason and haven't been doing much exploration into other spaces atm. We're likely to pick a few up in a week or two, and we're currently discussing what changes we want to target next year (that are on the larger side)
: Have you thaught about other things than a shield for the towers(only talking about visuals!)? Like improved armor (helmet, shoulder guards, etc.) And for each thing you take down it looses a part wich looks weaker. It would be a nice mixup to the tower visuals because they have looked the same for a long time.
Hmm, that's actually a really interesting idea - though not one we explored. If it ends up that barricades don't pan out long term I could see us going with this solution instead :)
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Riot MapleNectar

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