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: *Top 500 players who got through waiting for 10+ hours
Yep, we made sure to mention that in the post!
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rou (NA)
: Yeah, I could definitely see how that could be the case. Doesn't seem like it would be easy to add and maintain an entirely new ranking system alongside the classic one, and still keep the stakes high enough to draw satisfaction from it. This is some tough stuff. I know you guys work as hard as you can to improve things for us, so I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to some feedback and ideas. Cheers!
Cheers to you too. I'm always really happy when people take time to share their ideas and go super deep like you did.
Nefas (NA)
: Even though there isn’t much in the way of clear action here, thanks for doing the write-up and laying out the time table. It is much better than the communication during DynamicQ. I still hope that positional ranks are fully removed. If you want to keep the matchmaking since you see improvements there, I’m indifferent, but the ranks are really sapping my desire to play Ranked. When all I need is 18 LP to get into mid promos (or whatever the LP equivalent of 1 win is for me at the time) , getting off role multiple games in a row ends with me dodging and quitting League for the day. The only “splashing” that would solve that is 100% splashing which breaks the point of separating the ranks at all. Do you have any additional details or solves for those of us queued Mid/Supp or Mid/Fill? I gave up on doing that weeks ago
We rolled out a change since writing this post for NA and KR that brings Mid/Support primary rates back up above 80%.
: Started laughing pretty hard when he mentioned Mid/Support mains. Sometimes I want to play Mid, but want my main position as an option hahaha.
Heads-up we have rolled out a fix for this that brings Mid/Support primary rate back up above 80% pretty consistently. Sorry for the inconvenience.
: Thank you so much for actively putting effort into fixing many of the complainst players have had regarding positional ranks. Even though I don't play on NA or Korea, the general consensus I've seen was rather negative and I was worried it'd be shipped worldwide in its current state. It's nice to see you looking at feedback and musing upon the idea of going back to the old system, instead of forcing your players to stick with a system they hate until the end of the season, like with Dynamic Queue.
Thanks for taking the time to leave this comment. :D
: So these ideas I’m about to list are terrible, but just sharing them to encourage talk about solutions: * When you Que for a position and get autofilled during a series, can choose to allow the game to count towards the promotion. * make splashing SUBSTANTIALLY heavier, making large differences in each game, * Promotion series priority: substantially boosts your chance of getting your main position whenever your in a series for it. These are all crude ideas that have noticeable flaws, but I want people to discuss these and their own ideas.
I don't think these are bad ideas. Primary protection in promotion series is something we have planned. I think the challenge with making splashing heavier is you get to a point where you're basically giving players a single rank since you're splashing so much. Our idea going in was there would be a good balance point, but we haven't reached it so far. Thanks for the ideas!
rou (NA)
: @Riot SapMagic, what are your thoughts on bringing back a single ranking system, while adapting the position rankings into something still visible to the players, but with less of an impact on LP gains? Perhaps the way those position ranks are determined would be slightly different than the overall position rank, to avoid some unsatisfying situations that might come up if someone is for example ranked higher in their most prioritized role than their overall role (say, high gold in mid while overall ranked silver). Maybe the ranks themselves would be called something different to reflect mastery in a specific role rather than overall success in the ranked queue. It might be appropriate in that case to change/remove promotion series and LP (or whatever it would end up being called) gains/losses in the position ranks. The benefits to this sort of system to me seems like it would still be satisfying to see your progress and success in a role that you main, while still having off role games matter for your rank. I like positional matchmaking and mmr a lot, and think those could be adapted into this new sort of system as well, where games on your main role (or highest ranked role) would give you the biggest LP gains/losses in your overall rank, while off role games give you slightly (important that it's only SLIGHTLY so that it's still considered important to win and try) less. I'm thinking like a game that would give you +20 LP on your main role would give you +16 LP on your main role. That sort of thing. I'd love to hear your opinions on the matter. **TL;DR: Bring back single solo queue rank, keep position ranks but change them to be slightly less visible/impactful than your overall rank. Thoughts?**
I think ideas like this are pretty cool. Early on, we considered systems like this. One of the designers on my team kept referring to the pitch as "Position Reflection" which drove me insane, but basically the idea was you'd have position ranks that would update and you could see them in your profile, but they wouldn't have LP or promotions. The advantage of this system is it mitigates all the potential competitive intent risks since you still have a single rank with LP and all that. The disadvantage is it requires basically all the same ongoing work/upkeep/complexity and probably isn't super useful to players. We think players are most motivated by high stakes achievements and rewards and I think this would end up being more akin to something like stats. Not to say it wouldn't be cool. Personally I would love something like that, if we roll back position ranks I'm not sure we'll do something like this. It might be more valuable to invest our time in optimizing the core experience and trying to keep positional matchmaking or something.
DoC Ximon (EUW)
: JUST RESET RANKEDS HARD RESET would be the best!!!!!!!!!
We won't do a hard reset. For clarity, a hard reset is: - Remove all players' ranks - Reset all players to some baseline MMR (1000) The reason we wouldn't do this is best demonstrated through an example. Right now, for a brand new account, let's say it takes us 50 games to get that player to the correct MMR. So now let's look at two high skill players, one at 3000 MMR and one at 2000 MMR. One player is clearly better than the other, so we wouldn't put them together in matchmaking. Now if we do a hard reset: - Player A goes from 3000 MMR to 1000 MMR - Player B goes from 2000 MMR to 1000 MMR Now those players look identical in terms of skill, and if we put them together in a game we would think it's a "fair" game but it will actually be a stomp.
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Nefas (NA)
: What rates have you seen around autofilling and getting secondary over primary compared to the past? I noticed my rate of getting my main role has decreased significantly, to the point of getting my off role every other game for significant stretches. This feels awful and you making penalties for off-roles worse makes me want to stop playing for a while, to be entirely honest. I still strongly dislike this new system and believe it is a detriment to the competitive queue that is ranked. The sooner it is removed the better. Ranked is not and should not be the place for experimenting.
What's your position combination? In general we haven't noticed really any changes in position assignment rates except for some issues for Mid/Support and Top/Support.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZaneShadow,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=8sVyEEQ5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-30T23:17:48.929+0000) > > Auto fill protection for a promo series sounds amazing. I’m just starting ranked this season for the first time, and I’d be so sad to get autofilled in such an important match. Literally something that existed for previous seasons, was taken away and is now given back?
Autofill is kind of a loaded term. Previously, we guaranteed you'd get your first or second pick. In the future for a position in promos, we'll try to guarantee your **primary** pick.
: My main concern with this system that I don't think was answered in a Q/A yet (or haven't seen); How does elo decay work with the new positional queue? It wasn't a problem when it was one rank since you could play 1 game and just prevent being promoted, but say if somebody gets masters in all 5 positions, would they have to play a ranked game in each position to avoid demoting? If so that's really pressuring and makes the incentive to even bother climbing in more then one position less worth it. If it does work like that; it should be changed to; "you can reset elo decay for all of them by playing a game in any position that you're plat+ in, playing it in a position you're gold- will not reset the elo decay timer." idk just feels weird doing placements for roles I don't play, getting plat, then probably by the end of the year sitting at gold 1 in all of them because I don't want bothered resetting their timer outside the only role that matters (main) Also can we get a visual on how many days are left for elo decay?
The way decay works now: * Each position eligible for decay has its own timer * Playing a game on a position resets the timer for that position and every position of a lower rank I don't think we've changed anything about the UI - you'll get notifications like before. Decay moved up to Diamond this season.
: When was the low LP gain fixed? I remember I played last night, won, and got 14LP Was really bummed out about that and feels like I cheated out of 2 games I could have gotten a lot more in. Only got like 28LP from 2 wins. So don't want to risk anything if it was fixed yesterday and I'm still seeing the issue.
It was fixed before yesterday - suspect your issue might not be related or might be working as intended. You should open a ticket with Support if you haven't already!
: Can we have position rank on other servers now and don't wait like 3 months? Also climbing with an unranked account feels terrible this season and it's actually harder to reach diamond. it's impossible in 10 games.
When we switch over, you won't lose any progress and you'll get position ranks based on the games you've played so far. Your highest position rank will pretty much match whatever your rank was at the end of split 1. As for reaching Diamond, it shouldn't be impossible. I've seen a number of accounts end placements in Diamond.
Q zzy (NA)
: I have a question about the ranked tab. Does it no longer show your leaderboard within your tier because I only see the positional ranks. Also is it still possible to show more stuff like top ranked champs or winrates like the old ranked tab showed. So far I'm pretty satisfied with the changes overall though.
Yeah, we've kinda moved away from the ladder concept except for Master+. We could add it back in but many players weren't using it and it wasn't particularly meaningful. As for stats, at some point we'd love to make it so you can click a button on your position rank banner and go directly to the stats page for that position. Is that something you'd find useful?
: So it is not something technical, but during my promos, I noticed a really big disparency between ranks and skill. Like in 1 game I could have a decent mehanical team with smart moves, in another I will have bronze level plays and clown fiesta.
There's a good amount of volatility at the beginning of the season, could be partially due to the reset but could also just be luck of the draw. We've investigated individual reports of this in the past and usually haven't found anything weird. If you have more details I could look into it.
: As a EU player I wonder how the system works with a dedicated "fill" player? Does it think of him as a support main? Also will there be a non-tier based version of Morgana emote?
Your LP will be based on the position you play each game. We also give a splashing bonus to all your other positions when you queue Fill to help reduce grindyness. No, there's not a generic version of the Morgana emote. Can you give me more context on that question and why you'd want to get that? :)
Garrotte (NA)
: Something I'd like to see addressed is that if a position hits 100lp/promos, because no LP gets splashed to it until you rank it up, you in a sense get "punished" for playing other roles until then. I'd like to see some banking(maybe a 20-33 max?) So I don't need to actively think about gaming the system in order to not lose out of overall LP
That's an interesting suggestion - we've talked about banking LP for a while, no guarantees we will do it but we'll keep investigating.
  Rioter Comments
: [Gameplay] Ranked Losses Not Granting XP
Thanks for the report, we'll have a look. It's possible that it's just a UI bug but you're actually getting progress. Unsure though, we'll check.
: PSA: MMR no longer shields you from demotion.
Some of these systems are pretty complex, so I'll have to lean on another designer for more info. Will update this thread once we have more information about whether this is the same as before, intended, etc.
: will it be a different MMR by role or will we have almost the same one everywhere?
It's a different MMR per position, but they're linked so we can make sure weird things don't happen, like you end up in a Diamond game one game and a Bronze game the next game.
jaser00 (EUNE)
: How much points do you get after every win, is it the same amount as LP or is it a whole diffrent system
It's about 20 per win, more when you win in a secondary or if you get autofilled I believe.
Selec (EUW)
: I'm just gonna expose my case so you can take your own thoughts. I've been playing mid since forever, but I rerolled to ADC this season because that was my innate most comfortable role. But when you're playing ADC, the way you play the game is way different than playing other roles. You're playing like in "ticks", you adapt yourself to those ticks which represents your attack speed and your moments of doing damage and your moments of position yourself. No need to talk about kiting and priorize autoattacking over skills, so I'm now much more accurate using autottacks, but less using skills. When I get filled in Mid, I'll be facing an opponent that is used to use skills, to think about the value of those skills more properly than I do, and he's not playing with the "ticks" mindset that I'm playing with. That's gonna result in a huge disadvantage against them. Of course we don't know the exact difference between your "filled" rank and your "main" rank. Let's suppose ie you're Platinum 1 with ADC and Platinum 5 with the filled roles. I'd find myself having a hard time playing against a Platinum 5 "main" midlaner if I'm getting filled. And I'm considering a role that I played a lot, if I get into jungler, a role that I never liked, the difference would be much higher.
There are a lot of factors that will be different between players depending on their amount of experience in a position, how long they've been playing, etc. We bundle all those things together and look at things in terms of your win rate. We know you're at the right MMR/rank when you win about 50% of your games in that position. If you're losing more than that, we know you should be lower and we can adjust accordingly. That should generally help compensate for the potential issue you're mentioning, but if you still have questions I'm happy to go deeper on it with you!
Larriet (NA)
: >Dynamic Emote - 500pts You earn a split-themed emote that dynamically matches your tier. We’re still working on making it update when you rank up, so look for that a little later this cycle. Even while the Emote is dynamic, once the split ends, it will be finished, right? And then there will be a new emote for the next split?
Yep, it gets locked in at the end of the split.
: As a master-diamond player and a player since season 3 I find positions ranks will just bring more problems than the actual ones that they intend to fix . In my opinion having a overall a rank is a core piece of league and dividing it in 5 just feels weird climbing with specific roles. Honestly u guys say that feedback is important but actually I don't see it happening . . As u can see in that link the comments show clearly that the feedback about this change is not positive it even has a comment made by a rioter with 179 downvotes. I can´t find the link of a post in reddit about this but I can remember it was not really positive aswell. U guys can go just through all posts mentioned above that feedback is always the same (negative). It is actually the first time I post some feedback on the forums since I started playing cause I find this a really heavy game change to the ranked system that will actually take alot of players to start quiting slowly. Im not gonna go in depth about this cause there is already player's feedback in the threads/posts that they are supposed to give feedback, so please listen to the community. Thanks in advance !
Hey, just wanted to say I really appreciate your feedback. I talked more about my thoughts on this in another comment and I think it's really relevant to your criticism as well.
cozii (NA)
: I heard earlier in the process that mmr will be linked for each rank, but what is the point of separate ranks if you are multiple divisions difference in different ranks, but are placed in with a set mmr whichever role you decide to play? I feel as though there will be little point playing the roles you are worse with and have a lower rank if you are just playing with other players in the same scenario since you are matched based on mmr and not necesarily your rank.
The key is that the MMRs are linked but they're not the same. They're mostly linked so we can avoid situations where a player might be Diamond in one position and then somehow get matched into Bronze games in another position. That doesn't make sense, so we put some restrictions on it behind the scenes.
Jheff (EUNE)
: So about this role swap. I just wondered how the rank gap between duos would be calculated. Last season if I was plat i couldn't queue with silver players. But say I would get Plat as Support and Silver in any other role. I could queue as Jungle with a player that wanted to play, say, mid (as primary/main role) having a Silver rank. Then we could queue without a rank gap. In champ select i could then swap to Support and we both would play our desired roles. Now I know it has been stated, that frequent swapping would result in a matchmaking closer to my best rank. So at some point, I'd get to play a Plat game no matter if I'm silver in all other roles except one. But I would still be able to play with that one person if i chose a silver rank in the lobby? How does this affect the other persons game? Would their rank affect the game, would their role still be taken into account? And if so, would i win less LP, and they more?
We use both players' highest positions to handle duo queue restrictions.
: > You earn a visual upgrade to your Ranked Armor that dynamically matches your tier and lasts for the rest of the season. So you can get these upgrades at all elos? I.e can you have a visible gold upgrade, plat upgrade, and diamond upgrade at the end of the season? multi color armor?
The upgrades will always match your current tier, so no rainbow armor. Our artists would've taken my lunch money T_T
Sangy (EUW)
: Since you can now rank in multiple roles can challenger players now get into challenger 5 times with each role or is only their highest rank shown?
Position ranks turns off at Master+ and you have a single representation of your position on the ladder.
Cosnirak (NA)
: These new ranked rewards are really crappy. Summoner icons are essentially worthless if they aren't your favorite icon atm (and I suspect most people will never consider any such icons worth displaying), ranked armor is worth about the same or maybe even less, and an emote that just displays your current tier is only very slightly better than an icon or just as worthless if you have enough other emotes you'd rather use (which I suspect will be most people who have that many other emotes period). I would trade all of these rewards for each of these tiers of ranked points giving me just 1 RP a piece instead. Yes 3 RP a season > these rewards, it's not even a remotely close call for me. Honestly I'd rather you just not even make these rewards if they're going to be so bad and put the time and effort of the Riot employees that would go into them into nearly anything else that improves the player experience instead. I'm generally a fan of you at least trying out this new position rank system as I think it could turn out good (though I also definitely have my doubts). And yet these rewards are so bad that I feel compelled to reiterate this point even further. That you would even propose them is a little insulting. You can do so much better than this.
I'm sorry the rewards don't hit your standards or get you excited about playing Ranked, but I appreciate the feedback all the same.
: Wish you guys weren't so hellbent on shoving this down our throats when so much of the community has made it clear we don't want this.
Replied to this sentiment a bit in another comment. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you!
: "We aspire to be the most player focused company in the world" - Riot Game back then What has happened to this guys? I went thru all of the posts that were strictly about the positional ranking (including this post on the boards) and what I saw is nothing but pure negativity towards the idea. 1-2 positive comment next to 10s if not 100s of negative ones. Either you need to give glasses to the person who said that we like the idea or you need to fire that person altogether. I'm sorry, but if this change goes live, a lot of people will most likely quit playing ranked (or League altogether), including me. Riot made a ton of bad stuff over the years to help cover the other bad ideas instead of removing/fixing them. You tried to make role picking reasonable with autofill instead of removing the feature. (which is fine, probably even better this way) The balance folks ruined the smart part of the game by taking away everything related to vision (pinks revealing stealth, green smite, sightstone, etc.) just because esports wasn't good enough. I'm basically the second support as a jungler, I should be getting autofill protection for every single game I play as jungle. But this update is different. Ranked with these updates was bad, but still playable. But when this goes live on EUNE, the amount of people who int autofill games (which you don't take care of, since the report system is a pile of trash for anything other than chat) will at least double. You asked for the opinion of the community, you got replies from every region indicating that they don't want it (including NA which has a lot less inters compared to EU), so please man up and say that okay guys, this was a bad idea, we're scrapping it. Please!
I can see why it might look like we're not paying attention to feedback or being open-minded if you're looking at feedback through the lens of Reddit/boards comments. I want explain why that might not be the entire picture: - Reddit and boards are communities that tend to bias toward certain qualities (mostly western, etc), so they don't provide a clear picture of our entire player base even though they're large. As a result, we have to look at additional data from surveys to understand how players feel about things we're working on - Players are significantly less likely to post about how they like a feature. As a result, oftentimes neutral-to-positive sentiment gets under-represented compared to negative sentiment to a large degree - Hopefully we've shown through posts like [/dev: Addressing Your Feedback on Ranked for 2019]( that we're definitely listening and making changes All that aside, we want to test out position ranks because we really think we're onto something. Right now, it's super frustrating to play off-positions because those games feel less winnable. As a result, even if you otherwise _want_ to play multiple positions competitively, you feel like you can't because the games won't be fair and your rank will suffer. When we look at win rates for off-positions and how frequently players play off-positions in Ranked compared to other queues, we can see those are real problems. Positional matchmaking and position ranks gives us a shot at fixing those and giving players a lot more transparency and insight into how good they are at different positions. We totally agree there's a chance it won't work out as intended, which is why we're testing the ability to revert position ranks in case of any major issue, technical or otherwise. We're not afraid to scrap work if we make something that's genuinely bad, but we believe position ranks is a legitimate upgrade to matchmaking and the Ranked experience. We're open to being wrong, but we plan to see how the previews go before concluding it's not feasible. Thanks for your feedback, really appreciate you taking the time to write it up.
: how does this interact with role swaps in champ select? Thanks for the post <3. will be testing!
We detect when you've swapped positions in-game and give you LP for the position you played. There are systems in place to detect if you're doing this frequently to try to abuse the system, and matchmaking will start matching you closer to your best rank for all games until you swapping as frequently.
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: Hi Ed! Like your stream. 8)
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: Will we see position ranks in pre-season?
We'll likely test them on PBE; they're coming to preview regions on Live in 9.2 with the season start. We'll announce which regions closer to that time.
set435 (NA)
: Grandmaster change does nothing to bronze/silver/gold/etc, the grandmaster change only affects high-elo players as of 8.24 BUT since the time of arrival for iron has not been announced here, Im assuming that iron will be out before grandmaster comes out, so probably in the start of 8.24, people with low mmr will be placed in iron after placements
Iron and Grandmaster, along with other changes, are both coming in 8.24.
: Since Iron is below Bronze, I doubt anything will need to be done. People will backfill into Iron from Bronze naturally.
New players also start at Iron, which lets us test that one easily.
: Since they're removing all V tiers from the ranks below Master, my best guess is that all Bronze 5 player get turned into Iron 1. Though it's the other 5's i'm wondering about. Will a Silver 5 become a 4 or a Bronze 1?
Bronze V becomes Bronze IV, Silver V becomes Silver IV, etc.
: How will iron implementation affect those currently in bronze or silver?
Players who are in Division V of a tier will move to Division IV until the standard season reset.
  Rioter Comments
: Is there a chance you guys would lets us have an overall rank in addition to position ranks? With an overall rank that is affected regardless of role, people wouldn't be able to hide behind "Not my main role" or "This game doesn't affect me so I don't care" type of excuses because it now would matter. I also like the idea of having all ranked games you play matter. You would have to try if you get an off role because it will always affect your rank. Overall ranks could use the system we had before tiers and promos and stuff. Promos are already stressful, do we really need to have "double promo series" be a thing? Also thank you for the promise of not shipping ranked changes if you guys don't think major issues are fixed. Nobody wants another dynamic queue disaster, and this shows you've learned from that.
That's certainly something we have talked about in the past as an option, but our current solution is a little different. Look forward to hearing more about it in the next dev blog. Thanks for the feedback!
: Hi, I have a little bit of concern about the ranked rewards. I see that this has been brought up before in this thread, and that a new reward type that reflects our end-rank this season is being developed to go alongside the changes to the border system. However, I still feel like there might be some issues with the new border system that should be brought up regardless. This change obviously feels good for people that reach new peak ranks next season, but it feels sort of bad for people that reach peak ranks in this current season. For example, I just hit Master tier for the first time, after ending last season in Diamond 5. I don't play ranked as much as some people so it feels like it took a lot of time, and a lot of emotional investment as well. Knowing that I will probably not have a Master tier border going into next season makes me a little sad. This is particularly an issue for people that reach any peak ranks this season that are higher than whatever the Placement cap will be next season. It'll take longer for these people to "reacquire" their loading screen border. In the name of giving solid feedback, I've tried to come up with some potential solutions to this issue. 1) You could make it so that the rank displayed in loading screen is your end rank from last season, until you reach an even higher rank, at which case it will update dynamically as originally planned. Basically, this version is that your loading screen border will never be lower than your previous end rank, but can be higher. This rewards people who pushed themselves this current season, and it rewards people for pushing further in the next season. 2) Apply the previous solution, but only in Unranked queues. Ranked queues go forward with using the border system that Riot proposed. This allows borders in Ranked to keep their theoretical use as a completely accurate representation of a user's current rank, which is a feature of the system that my first proposal neglects. Arguably, Normal queues are far less serious and thus the border being an accurate representation of current rank isn't as necessary, and it should be fine for borders to be a bragging rights thing in these queues, rather than using the "higher of two options" system. 3) Keep the currently active system in Normals, use the Riot-proposed fully dynamic updating system in ranked. Similar to my second proposal, this keeps the idea that the borders in Normals are for show, while the borders in Ranked are an actual display of current rank. Unlike the other two proposals, this option removes the need to invest time into engineering the "higher of two" system. Drawback is obviously that reaching a rank higher than the border displayed in Normals might feel bad as you have to wait until next season to see it updated. These are just three ideas I had to make the border changes possibly feel a little better. It's entirely true that if the new reward is cool enough then further changing the border system isn't "necessary", but even still if there is room for improvement in a system then it should at least be considered.
Thanks for sharing all your feedback and ideas. We're still working out how we want to do all the new borders/emblems and how we want to treat previous-season rank, and every bit of feedback helps. :)
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Riot SapMagic

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