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: If you are the Grand Memer, do you support the Meme Queen 2016? EDIT: Crap! I didn't even share the full version! Fixed it though.
> [{quoted}](name=SilentNightSona,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=AgF5BlhU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-15T20:12:10.878+0000) > > If you are the Grand Memer, do you support the Meme Queen 2016? > > Thank you for adding this to my life.
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: Q. What is in the champ mastery formula A. Uhh... just play normal That seriously doesn't help the people asking this question. I don't think it has occurred to Riot that the reason why this is such a popular question is that the grade you receive at the end of the match almost never matches expectations and seems arbitrary. Which is why people want to know what categories to perform well in because playing normally doesn't equate to you getting an S. Now Riot can keep saying they won't tell anyone because then people will try to play for stats (as if playing for good stats isn't a good thing), but the alternative is people play for stats based on popular theories on what helps. So Riot believes it would be problematic for someone to pick a champ and know what averages they need to beat in order to get an S, and then work toward that goal in game, because maybe someone decides to afk farm for a bit to hit a cs quota. The problem is Riot gives people incentives to care about the ratings and so people will go into games with the end goal of getting an S rather than winning anyway. Only instead of knowing what averages they need to beat, they do the same thing Riot thinks people will only do if they knew the exact formula, which is play for stats that are popularly believed to increase rating. An example of this is a recent gbay video where he is trying to get mastery level 7 on irelia. After failing to get an S by playing normally, he looks around for popular theories on what gets you an S and decides to afk farm away from his team as much as possible, and ks at every given opportunity because to the best of his knowledge kills contribute to your rating far better than assists. So instead of giving people the rubric on what they are being graded on (like any actually legitimate test giver who wants to be taken seriously), people resort to playing for stats regardless if their goal is centered on mastery rank. Only instead of trying to beat an average of 8 kills or something specific for their champion, they will just attempt to ks all game long, or extend the game to farm kills/cs. Good way to encourage unhealthy gameplay. EDIT: Glad to see the post generating a discussion (120+ comments so far) but keep in mind a couple things 1. Different roles do in fact have different rating criteria (saw a bunch of comments wondering if this was the case) 2. The issue I mostly discuss in this comment is how despite Riot not divulging the formula, players nonetheless play for stats but to a greater extent than they would if Riot was more transparent. 3. Where I think the system is lacking most and possible change ideas?
There's a legitimate argument that the transparency of the feedback is too opaque at the moment, especially for players who don't have enough game knowledge to understand where they had a shortcoming. Frequently, when we see 'I don't understand why I got a (grade)' posts, we'll open it up and see the first response is someone outlining where they fell short. The fact that the player doesn't get this feedback directly is a shortcoming of the system and something we'd like to improve on. We've discussed a few approaches to this, such as possibly showing grades in performance categories. We are not locked into any particular solution yet, but none of the solutions would involve revealing specific stats. For the most part, we're pretty happy with the grade outputs. In the case of supports however, the grading system is just not great at evaluating game factors correctly atm. We are targeting improvements to support grading with 6.14 and a general upgrade for other positions grade accuracy.
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: New Champ Select Update
Hey guys, we know there are a lot of players who are really passionate about solo queue. We're not trying to be dishonest or dodge this topic. Radio silence on this the past couple months has been painful, we know. We hoped to come out with a direct answer to this, but working through the problems players are facing on live now (consistency around position select, queue times and matchmaking for high MMR) is taking longer than we initially expected. We did a bad job at managing expectations around this and deserve the heat we're getting around that. That being said, solo queue does not directly address either of these problems and could suffer from the exact same problems. We'll be honest: there's definitely a world in which solo queue doesn't return, but we'd rather keep it on the table as we work through these issues before making a final decision.
Duke Anax (EUW)
: At times it seems like there is no priority for primary role whatsoever. It's at the point that I _**NEVER**_ get Primary role if I select support secondary. Even as a support main I get tired of it eventually and stop putting support anywhere. This forces me to select a third role to play. A lot of non Support mains might play Support occationally, but if they are guaranteed to get Support if they select it, they will decide against it. If the only options are "Yes" or "No" a lot of people prefer to pick "No" even though they would pick "Maybe" if it were available. This only ascerbates the situation, because the more people stop putting support secondary the worse the situation gets for the remaining ones. I want to play Support/Jungle, which worked for the first weeks, but then I had to start selecting Jungle/Support if I wanted any Jungle at all. Now I have to conciously decide not to play Support this game and go Jungle/Top instead, which only means I get to play a lot more Top than I actually want.
We agree that position matchmaking is a little too loose atm. It uses a fairly naive algorithm resulting in players getting their secondary too frequently in a few cases. We are targeting this for improvement, no ETA to share yet though.
: I still miss Team Builder, but I have to admit that this champ select has been really good.
Team builder does fill a niche that isn't totally satisfied by the new champ select. The trade is it does have much healthier match quality and queue times. We are exploring a few options to improve primary vs. secondary position frequencies atm to help smooth out this part of the experience but it's a ways out.
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Retillin (NA)
: Are you worried about the need for an S rating to hurt game play and de-value winning? I know as a support/jungle player (most tank/supportish style) I don't get an S rating very often. As I gladly hurt myself to deliver winning chances/results for my team? With this, at least one game a week I feel I will need to "stat win" instead of win a game.
For a long time we've looked at the case where a player has a great game, but loses, and looked at ways of improving this experience. Up to the point we released champion mastery we never really had a good avenue for this that we were confident wouldn't negatively impact gameplay. Winning should always be the highest end and any sub goals we create must ultimately feed into this, but as long as the player is trying hard to win all game we feel it's safe to recognize great performances. In this case, it's almost impossible to optimize for S grades outside of 'play to win', partly because we don't reveal all the data that goes into the grade calculation, but also because the grade measurements themselves line up closely to the objectives required to win. As an added safety keys and key fragments, which chests aren't useful without, require wins. We don't expect to see this result in unintuitive behaviors, but it's something we're going to be keeping a close eye on. Worst case scenerio would be requiring a win and an S grade, but we don't anticipate having to make this change.
: IS there limit on how many crates and keys you can buy with rp?
There is a daily purchase limit on chests / keys, I believe it's 10 or 20 per day.
: can you get chests in all modes
Chests are only earnable in modes with champion mastery enabled. So for launch this is all matchmade SR modes. We are looking at getting champion mastery into other game modes but not details to share on this yet.
leonida6 (EUNE)
: will jhin be what lane will be Jhin
He's a pretty strong ADC. You might see him mid lane like Ezrael occasionally if you need AD and have a strong enough front line to protect him.
: 1. is there any way you can get skins for free? 2. are there going to be events to compete in a ranking system for rp?
1. The loot system. :) 2. We'll likely be using this system for things like ranked rewards and other achievement rewards in the future. No details to share on this yet though.
Lightnenz (EUW)
: Can I gift my friend essences and chests or is it exclusive only to you
Gifting chest is a cool idea. Will look into this but not likely for launch.
Ziron (EUW)
: Can the same champion win keys or fragments after having won a chest? And if yes is there a limit on keys (per champion/per month/ per season?)
Yes, you could earn all your keys and fragments on the same champion if you want and it wouldn't impact key drop rate. Only chests require playing other champs.
Ddosofil (EUNE)
: When it starts on PBE ?
We're working on getting this out to PBE as we speak, so players with a PBE account will be able to play with this in the next few hours.
: Can i get those keys for the chests randomly after a game or do i have to buy the keys like in CS-Go? :)
You can earn keys from winning games or purchase.
Kürama (NA)
: When will Champion Mastery levels 6 & 7 be unlocked?
We don't have any plans to increase the mastery level cap atm. We are planning on continuing to build on and improve champion mastery as a system though.
: I have two questions 1) Is there a limit to the number of keys you can collect? 2) Can you break down permanent cosmetic objects for essences?
1. We aren't going into detail around key drops, but there are some safeties in place to ensure botting / grinding aren't optimal strategies. 2. You can break permanents down into essences or alternatively use them in rerolls.
Phoksis (NA)
: I have a question, why not livestream the answering of questions/your dev blog, etc? i'm sure much would appreciate that and would enjoy to watch a live-streamed version of this; rather than read via forum threads. Just a suggestion/question. {{champion:412}}
Great suggestion. We will likely be doing a podcast and using a few other publishing channels as we get closely to launch.
Trynstark (EUW)
: The players that already have a lot of champs in mastery 5 will receive a chest for everyone?
The new rewards are purely based on S grades after the system goes live, so there won't be additional rewards for having achieved level 5 on champs. That said, being level 5 on champ means you'll probably achieve S grades more easily when the system goes live.
mrgators (NA)
: did you guys pull any influences from other games while coming up with this looting/crafting system
Most of the members of the team play a lot of other games. We pulled inspiration from many existing systems, from several different platforms, probably too many to name. The key for us was building a system that was a healthy mix of RNG and player agency without ever being able to ever really get a 'bad' drop. All the systems that we looked at that allowed players to get screwed and lose value or get useless items felt super bad. We wanted to make sure every chest felt like progress towards adding new stuff to their collection.
: Will shards drop for skins and champions you already have?
Chests can drop dupes, but rerolls will never produce dupes of anything you have activated or purchased (ie. is in your store inventory). Example: I own Zed, I do a champion reroll. I cannot get another Zed. However, if you have a Zed shard you haven't activated you could get another one.
Soñjer (EUW)
: Key drop rate (in % if possible) ?
We won't be revealing the specifics of this, but it does require a win to get a key drop.
: I wonder if there will be a possibility to recycle some of our old skins for cosmetic essence? It could be useful considering that mystery gifts can be sometimes hit and miss, as well not every skin after rework looks as good as old version for some people.
The loot inventory is separate from the store inventory, so you won't be able to disenchant items you've purchased directly from the store or played with previously. You can use refund tokens if there are skins you no longer want and use the RP to get chests / keys.
ajumma (NA)
: What happens to those that own all the champions already?
We'll likely have a special case for this, we'll be sharing details at a later point.
: Why did you put a big circle in the middle with the splash art instead of maybe something more important like changing runes?
We used the center of the screen to bring to attention the most important information or action at the time. When other players are selecting their champs, this will show their selection because this is an important piece of information in determining what your own strategy and picks will be. For moments like position call outs and your own champ / skin selection, these decisions take over that same space since they're the most important. Your runes / masteries / summoners will appear at the bottom through the ban and pick phase though, so you can change those at any time.
FG Blaze (EUNE)
: Is it true that we will be able to 5 premade ranked but not to play for other set of ranked (ranked teams 5v5 or 3v3) so all lp goes to main rank from which we get victorious skin? PS: I dont know if i said it correctly accpet my mistakes plss.
Dynamic queue is separate from ranked 5s, so it'll all go towards what is currently called your solo queue rating whether you play as 1,2,3,4 or 5.
Hogomolo (NA)
: Would it be possible to create a narrow down menu for champ select based on position & attributes (and/or even type)? For example, say support is where you'd like to go, so you narrow it down to support champs, but you also want to poke (Lulu, Lux, Annie...) would it be possible to narrow it down like that? Another example: You're going top, team needs AP Tank, searching through the 120+ list isn't always fun when you've had a confusing role call and need to go pee. I know in the past you go narrow it down by attributes, but those aren't very specific and they don't apply to all roles. For example, typing support in the champ select search bar wouldn't show Annie, Brand, or even Blitzcrank or Alistar. This was due to the fact that the first two were counted as Mages, and the latter as Tanks. Would a possible fix and modify to the attributes classification system as well? & thanks for doing this!
We made a few changes to make it a bit easier to find champs in the new grid, like adding a bit more space between champs and displaying names beneath them, but we still don't have a set of fantastic sorting options. It's definitely something we can improve on going forward.
momonga (NA)
: Do you guys have any plans to implement the new Champion Select to other queues like ARAM, Dominion etc. or is it just Summoner's Rift for the time being? Thanks
The challenge is making the grades meaningful in other modes requires a pretty different set of rules. It's something we've talked about a bit internally. We'll likely enable it in a few other modes at some point but no firm plans yet.
: I'm just wondering how does the finding chest system work and the champions already masters do you still get stuff
The champion mastery chests will be tied to end of game grades. It's a new set of objectives, so it won't look at your existing progress in the mastery system. That said your actual skill improvement with champions (ie. your ability to reliably earn high grades) will help you earn chests more quickly. We haven't gone into a ton of specific beyond this yet, but we will have details coming as we get closer to the start of the season.
: Question: Will the graphical overhauls apply to the modes not receiving the mechanical updates?
We'll be looking at non-SR champ selects in the future but not for the initial launch.
Ukin (NA)
: ***
We do have a client update in the works. You can see details here:
: I don't have a question, I just want to say thank you to everyone that worked on this. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} ######P.S. Rioters and and mods feel free to add me in game. I love chatting and having an occasional game with them :3
: If I were spending 10 minutes in champion select I would tear my hair out. Thought I do see the reduced numbers.. A minute doesn't seem like a whole lot when the potential cap is a total of 12 damn minutes. Will two players not ever be picking at once in the new champion select? (40x10 = 400 so I'm assuming not from your math) Will this que eventually replace everything? (I won't have an option If I want the old max of 100 seconds blind champ select) If I have to spend upwards of ten - twelve minutes before every single one of my games it will certainly hurt the game for me. I appreciate your response; although it doesn't make me too exicted ;) I hope the numbers do go down even more.
Each selection occurs individually in the new champ select. As far as the queue replacing everything, we're planning to roll it into other queues when it's ready, but this requires special changes so it will take a bit of time. As far as the times, remember the listed numbers are absolute maximums. In reality you'll see much faster times, especially in the new champ select. Let us know how it goes after you play around with it though. We'll be keeping a close eye on it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ryedan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WV2VqZca,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-11-12T19:17:53.829+0000) > Also, you don't have to declare a champion intent if you don't want. Something I pitched to Lyte was having the 6 roles (Tank, Mage, Assassin, Fighter, Support, Marksman > available in the champion grid as an option instead of declaring a specific champion, so you could be like "We have a Fiddlesticks jungle and we have a Leona bot, I think I should play a fighter top to round out the comp, but I'm not sure which one." > > What do you guys think? This is something I would really like. I already try to speak in terms of "we need a control mid" or "tank jungler" to discuss comps in champ select. Your idea sounds like it would make it a lot easier to do on the fly/without language barrier.
One of our goals with the new champ select was to formalize a lot of communication to make it easier to get on the same page with your team quickly. Ultimately we believe this will let players focus on strategy instead of just trying to figure out positions.
: I'm worried that this will increase the time before games by too much. The only reason I don't play ranked or draft often is because I go through 5 minutes of people picking their champions (maybe not that long but I feel like everyone always waits till the last second to lock in and ban). I know this was addressed in the main post (I remember reading something about the pregame times being shorter) but I want to make sure I have a full understanding of this. Could someone bullet point breakdown each step of what happens before you start a game for me and how long the players have to complete that step?
I felt the same way with the old experience, Drafting can feel like it takes a long time and we definitely didn't want to make it take longer. In our testing so far we've seen champ selects move slightly faster. The biggest change that impacts this is requiring champion selections to be locked in instead of it being possible to idle on a champ selection and have it auto lock at the end. This is what it looks like from old to new: Old Champ Select: Ban Phase: 60s per ban (360s total) Pick Phase: 60s per pick (360s total) *Remember, 2 players pick at once sometimes Resolution/Trades Phase: 60s Total: 780s potential cap New Champ Select: Position Assignment: ~4s Planning Phase: ~35s Ban Phase: 40s per ban (240s total) Pick Phase: 40s per pick (400s total) Resolution/Trades Phase: 40s Total: 720s potential cap The above is subject to changes based on testing.
: TL,DR: Will I get Ranked Rewards? ***Reward Distribution COMPLETED***
Hey all, We updated the above to describe the correct behavior which is that if you're kicked off a team, as long as you REJOIN before the end of the year you'll still receive the tier rewards for that team assuming you have enough wins.
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Riot Socrates

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