Vino (EUW)
: I feel like Riven needs more "shine" or something, her skills look like chemical zaun weapons, not like a magical sword. Also, Olaf got to keep his blood particles, why remove them from Riven?
Hey guys! I'm the one who was responsible for Riven's VFX update. I've heard everyone loud and clear, and I'm going to be addressing some feedback within the next few days. While I can't promise things will change drastically, I will be giving her an overall color pass (Yikes, poison is most definitely not part of her kit), toning down the ground circles, making her feel more physical, adding runes to her W, adding more linger and ceremony to her Wind Slash, and adding more of a runic empowerment feel to her passive. I also want to say thank you to everyone for taking the time to give constructive feedback.
: Oh, wow, I really appreciate the direct response/thought process! I posted another comment already about my thoughts on the more recent update, but that was before noticing this comment. On brightness - I *reeally* like the newer version of the Q, a lot. I do hope that's visibly clear enough, because it feels like just the right amount of brightness. Same goes for the wall - feels more icy/anivia-ey, while still popping. (There may be an acceptable case to bring a *tiny* bit of the blue back out, but not a ton imo) On the Ryze Ult comparison - Now that you mention it, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially given the new runic flair. Perhaps it could help to have more solid-looking icy particles tossed in there, or for a more work-intensive overhaul, replace some swirling movement for a more boiling-spaghetti-patterned effect? For now, though you said you didn't want it to feel "soft/snowy," it really does look a bit like a swirling snowglobe (which detracts from the "dangerous ice storm" image), and I don't think the speed of it is the main issue. (Again, this version isn't so bad. Part of the visibility issue may be the light-colored ring? Though, the live version gets lost in teamfights a surprising amount as well, to which I attribute half of Anivia's currently positive winrate, the other half being the Akali matchup) On the Q indicator - With those timestamps, I was more talking about the timing with which annie was hit with the first part of the ability than the actual circle around it. You'll notice she *appears* to be almost at the edge by the time she's hit by the first half - having the circle there as a reference only brings attention to this. I realize this is due to Z-axis/skillshot interactions, it's just reeeally obvious how wonky it can be with such a slow and calculated projectile. On the E - Thank you. I know the triple-shards was your baby, but it didn't feel as powerful to throw out as the single leading one does. Regardless of all this, your work is beautiful, please help us convince the modeling department to fix Anivia up to her new spells' standards {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Honestly i'm really glad I get to hear what everyone thinks! So thank you x 100000 again for the feedback!! OH! That's what you meant about the Q. YEEAHHH... I totally wish I could change how that behavior is, but it is a Z-axis issue as you said. If I change that, it changes the whole feel of the ability, which traditionally, changes how people feel about playing a champion in a negative way. (I'm talking about the subtlety how it FEELS to play a champion vs. the visuals of how something looks and feels). Ahhh still probably not explaining that properly, sorry! HMMM. I'll see what I can do to add a little more defined shapes in the ult (I think that's what you're getting at here :), but It's also now nearing the point where noise becomes a huge play and that's the balancing act. I can't promise much will change, but I'll try my best! <3
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Star Weaver,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=c4vYafPh,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-11-05T21:53:37.462+0000)> - I initially had a brighter/more noticeable hit impact for her pass-through effect, but when you used the ability over multiple minions/champions, it was taking up too much attention/noise. It was amped up a little bit, but should be at a good balance now. [It didn&#x27;t have a hit impact before!] > > - I amped the hit effect on the E crit to be different from when they aren&#x27;t frosted. It&#x27;s subtler, but it&#x27;s there now [Before there really wasn&#x27;t]. Awesome! That assuages my concerns there -- even a minor boost from what we had seen would be nice, and the improvements over NO indicators are incredible. > - I also initially tried the Freljordian runes on other parts of her kit, but it overall just made more noise than intended. Soooo RIP. May I ask why they stuck around for the ult then? It just makes that ability feel a bit disconnected from her thematic (although the effects are delightful) because the rest of her is decidedly just "ice bird" save for that one "Freljordian rune magic" effect that ends up sticking out oddly as a result, especially with it's already darker color.
I wanted to make the ult feel a little more Freljordian because that was the best place to add the flair and show her origins. (I'm a lore nerd x___X). It's a delicate balance we have to play with as VFX artist/ gatekeepers of gameplay when we want to add something cool.
: Love these. A few small suggestions: * The pass-through hit on Q should be amplified a bit more, given how much power is gated behind detonating the effect AFTER you get the pass-through hit on the primary target. * The "bonus damage" duration on E seems like it could benefit from a sharper visual (the blue at the feet seems easy to miss -- it took me two watches just to see it, especially with her other blue particle effects), and I'd love to see a special impact and sound for an empowered E to help with clarity on WHY you suddenly took more damage. * I'm not quite feeling the triple icicle -- it's a nice effect and excellently done but, for some reason, nuking a target with a single big ice spike just seems like it feels better to me. * Is it worth considering her runic effects on the ultimate and working those in a few other places? The indicator around the Q or the ice of the W seem like possibilities, and it would help tie that thematic in a bit more. Otherwise no complaints -- gorgeous work as per usual!
Thanks for the suggestions! Glad you like it! - I initially had a brighter/more noticeable hit impact for her pass-through effect, but when you used the ability over multiple minions/champions, it was taking up too much attention/noise. It was amped up a little bit, but should be at a good balance now. (It didn't have a hit impact before!) - I amped the hit effect on the E crit to be different from when they aren't frosted. It's subtler, but it's there now (Before there really wasn't). - The triple Icicle will change to a single one :) - I also initially tried the Freljordian runes on other parts of her kit, but it overall just made more noise than intended. Soooo RIP.
: I apologize if some of this sounds too harsh - I'm a long-time Anivia main, since season 3 (before the small rework to ult and e, adding of Q indicator, etc) and change is often quite jarring to me, especially when it seems counterintuitive or unnecessary. Base Skin: ~~Q - Way too bright. It's pretty, but it just feel like the brightness was turned up to 12 and it hurts my eyes - Also, with a little lower brightness, the shape of the projectile would be much clearer.~~ Also, there's been a visual issue on the Q indicator (on all skins) since... Well, really since that old rework, where it just doesn't line up anywhere near where champions actually visually are. You can actually see this pretty clearly (for the small hitbox at least - this doesn't show any suspiciously-missed stuns) in the sample clip during the Q at 1:03, and the one right after it at 1:06. I'd hope this would be somewhat fixed on the visual update... ~~W - That wall is a lot closer to white than Anivia's signature blue, which is quite jarring against the color scheme we've come to know and love. Again, looks too bright, a bit too artificial/opaque for the color - more like marble than ice, more Demacian than Freljord. If whiter ice is really what you want to go with here, it'd be a bit less jarring if it seemed more translucent, or at least a deeper color.~~ ~~E - The triple-shot is visually inconsistent with its effect. There are not 3 hits happening, just 1, and it looks quite strange for an effectively rectangular projectile like that to be coming out of the smooth activation animation. If you *must* keep the triple-shot visual for clarity, please at least group them closer together so it looks more streamlined/less blocky. Regardless, I don't think the old animation was anywhere near as misleading as this one.~~ R - It's very pretty. It's a little bit visually distracting. Personally I'd prefer it toned down juuust a tad, but this one's really pretty close to okay, again assuming you really want a more white color scheme. Blackfrost: Q - Fine ~~R - There's a bit of black wind that goes *just* over the top of the circle, which is intended to show the back-side of the 3D object that is the blizzard, but it also unintentionally extends the range of what looks like the top end of the circle around the ability's range, if you're not looking closely. This seems bad for visual clarity, especially in teamfights.~~ Frost - Is there any plan to change the color on her frost effects to something darker on this skin? The new frost effect's bright aesthetic, especially compared to the new Blackfrost's accentuated dark/purplish colors, ~~clashes pretty badly.~~(on twitter update: not quite as bad, since the skin has a bit more of that color in its animations to match - or maybe it just looks better on this spot in the map, I don't know for sure)
Hello!! Thank you so much for the feedback! VFX artist here. I actually appreciate that It's quite a bit of a rundown, so I'll give my thought process on everything to match :) So the reason I made everything a little bit brighter is for visual hierarchy in our game. The brighter something is, the more attention is drawn to it. Her Q was getting lost in teamfights sometimes, and bringing up the brightness makes it more noticeable on all fronts. Ice is normally on the whiter side of things, and when I brought some deeper blues in with a lot of her VFX (I'm mostly looking at her ult here in this example), it was giving me overlap with other champion's VFX. There were a lot of concerns early in playtest that the R felt like a Ryze ult when I pushed deeper blues in it. Still, with that being said, I can tone down the glow on her Q by like... 10-20%, and that could help a tad? Also, for the hitbox on her Q, I didn't want to change what players were already used to on that ability. Funny enough, I actually was trying to test out the hit box on it to see if I could stun an Annie with the wonkiest of angles and just the BARREEEE edge of it, and the hitbox is actually pretty accurate! The timeboxes you pointed out in the sample clip do actually do what they are intended to do (The first one, Annie is not in the ring, the second one, she is). The W was also pushed closer to white in order to bring up attention and clarity around it (See point above). I'll probably go in and bring in about 30% more blue into it, but the main reasoning I made it whiter is to actually stand out a bit when you use it in conjunction with the R. It actually creates an effect that pushes each other out. As for the E, I'll be changing that into a single icicle today with trailing shards rather (As decided by popular vote!). I'll see if I can tone down the R ever so slightly, but I have it that crazy because I was actually getting feedback that it was being lost a little in teamfights somehow (like, WUT). I also wanted to bring in a more aggressive blizzard feeling rather than a soft snowy feeling. But yeah, as I stated above, the deeper blues pushed it to looking more like a Ryze ult and I was getting overlap of that from playtest feedback. To be honest, I'm really excited to see these changes go out to PBE, and I'd actually really like to see what your feels are after playing the new changes. The choices I made on her VFX are a little on the subtler side and I personally believe that it improves how she feels to play. I'll look into the dark wind on the R with blackfrost to see if I can make it match the hitbox a bit more accurately as you're describing. As for the frost, if you're talking about the slow effect that plays on Annie, that's actually the global slow effect and it's something that I unfortunately don't have the ability to change for gameplay reasons. BUT YEAH. Thanks again for the feedback! It really does help to understand what other Anivia mains are feeling!
: anivia main here, thank you so much for giving her some love! You did an awesome job on these new VFX and I love them a lot. The only thing bothering me is that her E is three shards in a "box" formation instead of one large one. It looks very clunky in my opinion. I think it would look nicer as either one large shard or a huge shard with little fragments trailing behind it. Also, can her egg get some love? The new revive animation is really cool, it feels like the egg model itself should be polished to match (but that might fall under character model stuff)
It seems the biggest sentiment is around her E staying as a single Icicle, so I'll be looking into keeping it as one today. I like the suggestion about some trailing shards, so I'll see if I can incorporate that! Unfortunately, as you said, the Egg model does fall under the character modeling category, which isn't what the goal of this update is geared towards! (This was more focused on gameplay clarity, which allows us to do these sort of updates rather than wait for a full VGU).
Mitsuki (NA)
: Hi Anivia one trick here, would it be possible for you to freshen up Anivia's character model? Make her feathers more defined and make her more visibly icey?
Hello! The goal of this update was to focus solely on gameplay clarity improvement. We can update their VFX and SFX in a significantly shorter time than it would take to do a full VGU, which allows us to deliver this kind of update much faster. Since these are smaller updates geared toward sprucing up some of the oldest members of the roster, they aren't really in the same prioritization conversation as how we decide who gets a VGU (where we take model, gameplay, and thematic into account too!)
dotdog20 (NA)
: Default skin E looks like a three-pronged thing while bf and fest look like the live version. Is the three-prong going on all the skins, or just the base level, or base, noxus, eagle, etc?
The multiple icicles should be on base's kit, which is tied to noxus, eagle, etc!
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